Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / The Enduring Power Of AC/DC with Author Chris Sutton [Episode 185]

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The Enduring Power Of AC/DC with Author Chris Sutton [Episode 185] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

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  Angus's performances. I know people have been to see them over the years and
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  have been staggered, even up to Black Ice who hadn't seen them before.
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  And we're just amazed at how somebody can go through a set and put that
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  amount of effort into it as Angus does. It is extraordinary. And we're
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  totally booked rock and roll. I mean, I'll leave you. You're reading
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  Little Hands, It's time to rock and roll roll. I totally booked.
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  Welcome back to Booked on Rock, the podcast for those about to read and
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  rock. Find the podcast at booked on rock dot com. You can find
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  every episode of Booked on Rock there, along with links to your favorite listening
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  platforms, exclusive videos, blogs, links to all of the social media sites,
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  and the latest rock book releases. Also, you can now watch every
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  episode in full on video on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel at bookedown Rock
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  or at booked on rock dot com. Chris Sutton is a returning guest.
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  He's got a new book ac DC Every album, Every song. One of
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  the greatest bands in rock history. Eighteen studio albums, two soundtrack albums,
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  three live albums, fifty seven singles. They've sold over two hundred million albums
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  worldwide, and their nineteen eighty album Back in Black became the second biggest selling
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  album in history, with fifty million copies sold worldwide. In the latest from
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  Sonic Bonds on Track series, Chris Sutton not only gives an analysis of every
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  track on every studio album from ac DC, including B sides, outtakes,
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  live albums, and box sets, he also interviewed former members of ACDC,
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  collaborators and friends of the band. A playlist of ac DC is on the
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  show notes page. Chris Sutton, Welcome back to the book Down Rock Podcast.
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  I think this is appearance number three. Gotta say this, Eric,
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  this is one of the things when I finished writing the book. Genuinely,
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  I think I get to talk to Eric again. Ah. I love it.
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  I love it. Every time you have a book, I know I'm
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  gonna it's either me reaching you or you reaching me first. It's a race
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  to the who gets the first, who gets the first email. So yeah,
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  total of eighteen studio albums, two soundtrack albums, three live albums,
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  two box sets, fifty seven singles. I mean that's a daunting task.
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  We're not talking about a banoors around for a few years. You managed to
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  do it amazingly, and you include new interviews in this book as well,
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  So tell us about that and what we can get in this book. Well,
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  A couple of things is One is I was a little bit lucky because
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  I see DC have had some time out at various points during what you know,
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  the Brian Johnson years, so there should have been even more albums really
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  in effect as regards to interview is that's a good question. What I do
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  before I start every book is I make a list of everybody, engineers,
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  produced as the band, cover illustrators, the whole lot, everyone, and
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  I approach every single one of them as best as you can. So the
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  ones that you see in the book are the ones who chose to be part
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  of it and replied and have to say that ACDC are probably the most closed
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  off if you're like difficult to reach, difficult to get a comic band that
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  I've encountered yet, and a few people warn me about that. It's certainly
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  the case, and I respect that. But the there you go. That's
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  why you say who you're doing the book and why other people are not.
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  They Yeah, it makes it more challenging. Their very first single released July
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  of nineteen seventy four, Can I Sit next to You Girl, featuring lead
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  singer Dave Evans. The version that Bond recorded with the band is available.
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  It's hard to find this one. It's more of a t REX sound than
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  any ACDC song that we would know. But they make a change soon after
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  that, so Dave Evans is out. They bring in a new manager.
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  They decide Dave Evans isn't working out and here comes Bond Scott. November of
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  nineteen seventy four, they recorded the High Voltage album, which is released in
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  February seventy five. The lead single is interesting love song Oh in parentheses sounds
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  absolutely nothing like ec DC. Angus hates the song and he can't believe it
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  was even chosen as a lead single. Thankfully, the b side, which
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  was a cover of Baby Please Don't Go That was there, so DJ's in
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  by playing that one. But what's the story behind love song? And why
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  do you think the label, which was Albert Productions, chose that as the
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  lead single? Well, I think I know exactly why. I spoke to
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  Michael Browning, who was used today as the manager who came and turned things
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  around for them when they stack Dave Evans and got Bond Scott Now. Browning
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  points out that in Australia at the time there was a very healthy pub rock
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  scene, you know, bands playing in pubs and so on. There was
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  this circuit, but there's also a very healthy pop scene that ac DC,
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  and this is a bit hard to believe, really appealed to young teenage girls
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  particularly would turn up to their gigs. So it was simply a case of
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  O Gene. If you listen to the big dramatic intro and the sort of
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  tugging at the heartstrings kind of ballad feel of it which Bob puts on,
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  they thought really would be picked up by this massive audience that they got in
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  Australia of teenage girls. If that had happened, if the radio stations have
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  played oh Gene, I don't know what ac DC would have done, because
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  they didn't like the song, apart from Tony Karrenty, the session drummer,
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  who picks it out as the best thing they've ever recorded. Yeah, that's
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  in the book. Yeah, but it's totally atypical. As you said,
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  correctly, Angus hates the song. I think it's the intros, dynamic and
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  interesting and dramatic, but it's not ac DC as we would know them at
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  all by any means. And right they turned over and Baby Please Don't Go
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  and so on. That's much more the ac DC that we know. And
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  that first album is it's a good album and there's this moment's song that are
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  excellent, but it kind of is it sort of sets the scene. Despite
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  the terrible cover, I would say, yeah, they've had they had a
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  few covers that the head scratchers. We'll get to a few more too.
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  But the album did pretty good in Australia, number fourteen. Yeah, We've
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  got to say at this point. One of the decisions I had to make
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  in the book was which timeline, which path to follow for ac DC,
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  and I've gone with the Australian albums has been the true vision, which I
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  guess they must be because the europe Bean additions do substantially change all the way
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  up. It's only it's only once we reached power age, not not parents
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  so highway to help. That's the first album where the tracks are the same
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  across the world. It does make it difficult going back in time, going
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  through the ac DC catalog. It's really sometimes it's confusing. I can't remember
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  which song is on which album, which version there's Yeah, there's the Australian
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  version, there's the US version, and then there's an example of an album
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  that's not released in the US until year later, which we'll talk about.
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  Yeah, but you do know in the book, after that first album they
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  step it up. They up their game with nineteen seventy five's TNT. What
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  a way to start off the album. The lead track, it's along the
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  Way to the Top. If you want to rock and roll, tell us
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  about the bagpipes. There's a great story on the song in the book.
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  Bond had some trouble setting those up in the studio. He did, he
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  did, you know, they were chatting in the studio, and that you
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  have to mention George Young, you know, one of the older brothers of
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  Angus and Malcolm, who really was a major guiding lights in their career and
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  also did a lot of the arrangements with them, played based on an awful
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  lot of the stuff as well, and in amongst all the talking, he
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  discovered that Bond Scott had played in a pipe band when he was younger.
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  What Bond failed to tell him was that he'd been a drummer in a pipe
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  band and had never actually played the bagpipes at all. He went out and
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  bought a set of bagpipes for four hundred and seventeen nine in US Australian dollars,
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  which would be bad enough to buy two brand new strats at that time.
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  So Mark Evans reckoned and Bond just thought, I think, as did
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  Tony. I owe me when we took before and when they did Spiral architect
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  Sabbath, they were going to put bagpipes on and how difficult can it be
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  to play? Or the answer is yes, very difficult to play. So
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  Bond does his best at playing them, and the brilliance of George Young not
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  for the last time. We'll say this was to take what Bond had actually
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  managed to get out of the bagpipes and kind of loop it so that it
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  sounds reasonable. If you listen carefully, you can tell that this is somebody
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  who actually can't play the bagpipes. I think it's just a series of blasts.
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  Really most of the time Ye didn't plays but and a shout out.
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  I think it's to Jack Black because I think that song it's just one of
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  the big bangers in the ACDC back catalog, and it always used to astonish
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  me just how little traction it'ld have got in the live set through the years,
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  just seemed to vanish about trade the Night comes School the Rock with Jack
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  Black, and suddenly the song was straight to the top of the Best ac
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  DC song list. I mean, people really latched onto that track and any
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  you can't put that song on and not fill up and smile, can you?
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  No? I know, it's it's a classic. I remember I got
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  turned on to it when I was in college. That would have been early
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  nineties, so that was before Jack Black's movie. But I just remember,
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  I remember I had I had a cassette, I put together a mixtape and
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  I was running out of room at the end and they had to fade out
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  the bagpipes at the end. I was like, that was such a bummer.
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  Yeah, that would that would have been cool. I don't know.
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  Maybe they've done this, but in concert they bring out a natural bagpipe player
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  on stage. What do they do live for this? They had done that.
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  I think there's some footage on one of the box sets where they did
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  bring out some sort of pipe band to do it. But but generally they
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  didn't it all surprised me they never did it, and say some of the
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  Glasgow dates that you'll now have over the years, well they could have had
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  fun with that, and I thought that that would have been an absolute banker.
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  But no. So the song, strangely is one that isn't there amongst
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  the big bankers of the When I see DC do their live sticks, as
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  you were, well know, you get one or two deep cuts, don't
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  you that would usually be the way of it. Two three off the new
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  album and then the whole run of the ones you expect. I mean maybe
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  that would change. Yeah, we'll see. There's some great Trivia's stories behind
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  the songs in the book. One of them is for TNT, which is
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  another ECDC classic. George Young, when he heard Angus chanting along to the
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  song in the studio, he was the one who suggested to add his Oi
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  chance in the track. So that was just that was just like happenstance.
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  I love stuff like that. Now. The next release is the band's first
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  international release. Nineteen seventy six, Atlantic signs the band to a worldwide deal
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  and we get the High Voltage album. Now. The head of the UK
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  Atlantic label picked tracks from the first two Australian releases. High Voltage charted at
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  number thirteen in Australia one six in the US, but their rise to the
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  top in the US that's coming. Our next album is Dirty Deeds Down Dirt
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  Cheap. That's also from seventy six in Australia. At least it wasn't until
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  nineteen eighty one that it received an international release. And there are so many
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  great songs to choose from from both releases. I mean, Problem Child,
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  Big Balls, right on, Jailbreak, Rocker, Squealer. But let's talk
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  about the title track to Dirty Deeds Down Dirt Cheap. First, Where did
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  the name come from? And can you talk about this couple from Libertyville,
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  Illinois, Norman and Maryland White? What was their issue with this song?
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  But we'll start with the title track and the story where that name came from.
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  Well, it comes from it. It was a TV show in Australia
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  that he used to watch. I think it came from America called Bean the
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  and Cecil. Do you know with this heard of it? I don't.
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  Anyway, I used to watch it and he reckoned that there was a character
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  in it called dishonest John and he used to carry a card around like a
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  calling card which said dirty deeds done, dirty special rates for holidays written on
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  it, and it was it was something that it stored away and remembered,
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  something that amused him. So that's where the title comes from, of all
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  these dirty deeds, which which Bonnie is capable of doing, as he outlines
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  in the song itself, and right near the end of the track, as
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  you'll probably know, is he gives his phone number thirty six twenty four thirty
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  six, and it sounds like he says eight on the end of it,
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  but he doesn't. He actually says, hey, but if you take thirty
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  six twenty four thirty six, eight, this was the phone number of Norman
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  and Marilyn White in Libertyville, Illinois, who got so annoyed at the constant
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  phone calls they were getting. And you said that it wasn't released in America
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  till eighty one, which is true. Now you got to imagine now these
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  albums, this album selling in huger quantities than it would have done back in
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  seventy six. This is going on the back of, you know, with
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  Back in Black, So everyone's buying this album. There's always American fans listening
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  to this, and I mean I was used to ring phone numbers. I
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  would see programs and on records. You think, I wonder who actually answers
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  the phone? Yeah, well eight, six, seventy five, three or
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  nine was the big one. That was the famous one. So they sued
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  the band for a quarter of a million dollars in damages, demanding that the
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  song was altered. But the case was thrown out because they don't actually say
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  the phone number, which the fans have misheard in it. But I mean,
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  you can't beat promotion like that, can you? If you're a dream
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  of man. If they had a voice machine, a voice message machine,
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  I'd love to hear some of the messages that were left there. Can I
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  talk to bonn Is he? Is he there? His angus there? Yeah?
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  Right? Dirty Deeds. The album charted at five in Australia and three
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  in the US. In nineteen seventy seven, ACDC released Let There Be Rock
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  number nineteen in Australia, seventeen in the UK, one fifty four in the
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  US. This also has an Australian and international version with different track listings.
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  Now the highlights here are, of course, the title track, also a
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  whole lot of Rosie Hell in a bad place to be, Dog, Ate
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  Dog, Our Dog, Eat Dog, Bad Boy Boogie another great track.
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  But we can't forget about the title track, Let There Be Rock, which
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  is a classic live It's a must whenever your ACDC plays not live Now.
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  Both Basis and Mark Evans and Angus they love this album, and Angus said,
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  if you listen to any album from ACDC for the first time, this
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  is the one. Now. Mark Evans was fired by the band in May
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  of seventy seven, shortly after this, so now we're replaced on base by
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  Cliff Williams nineteen seventy eight, we get power Age. Many fans will say
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  that this is their favorite ACDC. The album rock and Roll, Damnation,
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  Down Payment, Blues, Give Me a Bullet, Riff Raff, Sin City,
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  What's Next to the Moon, Gone, Shooting Up to My Neck,
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  and You and Kicked in the Teeth. Those are all nine tracks. Now,
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  you lead this chapter by writing, there was an intention for musical changes
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  on this album. So what were those changes? Yeah? Well, actually
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  I picked this up. Angus told The Quietus in twenty fourteen that power Age
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  was probably us experimenting a little bit and I've not seen that interview back at
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  the time, so I went back to the album thought Experimenting, and I
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  think basically the only one that really stands out for me has been the experiment
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  would be What's Next to the Moon? That does kind of stand out a
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  little bit, quite a different vibe to it, almost verging on the psychedelic
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  possibly at times. Gun Shooting probably sticks out a little bit as there's been
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  quite a nice, sort of low key sort of groove, and I guess
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  there's the big kind of poppy song on there, which was the big hit
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  single, rock and Roll Damnation, which was written to order because the record
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  label wanted a sure fire hit, which it was over here, and they
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  literally throw everything at rock and Roll Damnation, and they really really do.
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  There's insistent miracas in it, probably played by George Young, the big choruses
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  tambourine in it, and it was a huge success for them really, But
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  I think really the big breakthrough album over in Britain for them that really pushed
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  them over was probably the live album. Now, the live album is a
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  sequenced at the end of the book, so I think you do lose that
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  a little bit, to be honest, because that live album was absolutely key
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  in Britain. It really really was. When Top twenty you got to number
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  thirteen and all of the songs on it. I think the versions on If
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  you Want Blurred Earth a superior to the studio versions without a doubt. It
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  really is probably one of the greatest lot of albums ever made in my opinion,
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  and that was really just before Highway to Hell, I think, right
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  yeah. It came out in October seventy eight in the UK, November seventy
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  eight in America, got T one hundred and thirteen in America, which probably
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  sounds a bit ridiculous really now, but you look at that and you put
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  that album on play refraff and you're in from the first few notes for the
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  ride. Then you get Helen's a Bad Place to Be, which actually is
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  in tune. That's one of the things that's quite interesting. You listen to
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  it back on there, b Rock and the guitars are quite out of tune
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  on there, and one of the things that think Joe Elliott said about Lang
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  when he comes in was one of the differences he makes. Joe Elliot said
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  when he got the guitars in tune for a start, somewhere I remember him
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  saying that it wasn't always that bad. In fairness, the songs that you've
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  mentioned earlier, a whole lot of Rosy Problems, Child Lead, they're all
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  vastly superior, I think on the live album, often elongated with long instrumental
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  sections, the whole lot of Rosie. You hear the chant Angus learn it.
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  It's not actually a live version on the album. It's not. I
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  I was going to ask you about that, because it really didn't sound authentically
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  live. But where did the chant come from? Is that coming from an
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  actual show that the chance is definitely bolted on? Okay, well, it
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  works, and it's interesting because actually it's Malcolm that's playing the riff, not
• 18:33
  Angus at all. It's actually Malcolm, So you get that. But if
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  you listen to anyone out there's not sure. Listen to a whole lot of
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  ros and you can hear that Bond's voice is pretty similar, if not the
• 18:45
  same, to what it is on the studio version, and he's completely different
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  to the rest of the live album. I hadn't noticed, to be fair
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  I started digging and talking to some other fans speaking of Well power Age.
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  I mentioned a lot of fans will say it's their favorite power Adge. Is
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  that your favorite? What is your personal favorite ACDC album? Oh it's a
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  tough one. There's a devil in you, isn't it. Eric. I'm
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  trying to think all mine would be. I got to think of I got
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  like a handful. I could choose, Well, you get that, you
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  get the best Bond, best Brian? Can you even choose between Bond and
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  Brian? Sort of debate? Don't you of the ere with Bond Scott?
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  I think power Age has maybe I was going to say more authenticity, if
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  that makes any sense at all. It's not as sculptured and molded perhaps as
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  say Highway to Hell, which might be the next big contender that people would
• 19:41
  pick. I mean, you've got to look at Highways on so that's the
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  big breakthrough album. So is that the best album they did with Bond Scott?
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  But I think I my problem with that album, which will come onto,
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  is I think Side Too is perhaps a little bit weak on Highway.
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  To help personally with the popular choice, I could be cool and try to
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  pick something obscure or different, But I had Highway to Hell from Bond,
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  back in Black from the Brian years. I just can't go wrong with either
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  of those, and those are the ones. Those are the first. First
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  one I got was Back in Black. Then I went and bought Highway to
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  Hell. The book done. Rock podcasts will be back after this. Power
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  Age reached twenty two in Australia, twenty six in the UK, but again
• 20:26
  US one thirty three, which is so surprising nowadays when you see how popular
• 20:30
  they are here in the States. But there was a while there where they
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  weren't. But we know that would end with Highway to Hell. So Highway
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  to Hell one of the greatest albums in rock history, right, I mean,
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  I would say in the commercial peak of the Bond scott era, but
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  we'll get to that side to comment. I'm getting interested in that. Nineteen
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  seventy nine is Highway to Hell number seventeen in the US, eight in the
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  UK and thirteen in Australia. Atlantic in America wanted an album that was going
• 20:56
  to break through, and they finally get it. Replaced George Young and his
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  producing partner Harry Vanda with mutt Lang on this one. But it's interesting because
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  mutt Lang wasn't the first choice they wanted to go with Eddie Kramer, who
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  was known for his work with Hendrix and led Zeppelin, and he also produced
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  Ah Freely solo album. He was known for quite a few artists, so
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  certainly wasn't a bad choice, but it just didn't feel right with Angus and
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  Malcolm, so they got Mutt Lang in instead, and it's magic. I
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  mean, there's something happened there. Now Here are the ten tracks Highway to
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  Hell, Girls Got Rhythm, Walk all Over, You Touch Too Much,
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  and I think Beating around the Bush is the final song on side one.
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  Yeah, okay, so side too shot down in Flames, Get It Hot,
• 21:41
  If you want blood, You've got it, Love, Hungry Man and
• 21:44
  Night Prowler. Where do you hear the biggest difference sonically on this album with
• 21:48
  Mutt Lang because you mentioned Girls Got Rhythm as a revealing song for the differences
• 21:53
  that he made. Well, it's interesting because you mentioned Eddie Kramer and Eddie
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  Crime and EDITHA Wad have been a shoeing to work with them with his rock
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  credentials. I suspect the band was still quite sore being forced to jettison their
• 22:10
  brother George and Harry Vanders producers And when you come in with Lang. I
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  mean, as Browning said to me, Michael brown and the manager, he
• 22:19
  doesn't really have any rock credentials at all. He had to keep it quite
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  quiet from the band that Lang had produced the Boomtown Rats, for example,
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  because he'd be told them that they'll go no, forget it, We're not
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  even going to work with the guy. But what Lang does do is to
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  give a c DC kind of a spit and a polish and make them more
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  radio friend inacceptable to a wider audience. Now by that, what I'm talking
• 22:42
  about is bands like ac DC, Van Hale and any of the bands you
• 22:48
  have a core audience, which is people like me and you, and we
• 22:51
  buy everything and we're there, and then you pull in all these other people
• 22:55
  who aren't so bothered. You know, they'll hear the single on the radio
• 22:59
  or whatever, and like casual, but they'll fill in all those millions of
• 23:03
  people who buy the records, but they won't go back and buy other six
• 23:06
  or seven albums before it. Probably they'll just be in for that one kind
• 23:10
  of like this is easy tops Eliminator. I know so many people who bought
• 23:14
  Eliminator but didn't go back and buy any of the other early albums at all,
• 23:18
  So I think what Lang does for start. The thing you notice is
• 23:22
  the choruses are so strong with Lang, the backing vocals are so cheerful,
• 23:27
  and the whole thing. Every ACDC album has these big backing vocals on the
• 23:32
  choruses. You know when you see you see Malcolm mcliff come forward on stage
• 23:36
  to do the vocals, and if you go before this album, that's not
• 23:41
  really the case. There's moments when they get these big gang backing vocals,
• 23:45
  but it becomes a massive feature of the sound from Highway to Hell onwards.
• 23:48
  The title song itself, you can almost see them walking up to hit those
• 23:53
  backing vocals when they come to the chorus in your head. And that's the
• 23:57
  difference. Any sweetens the sound little bit, not too much, I would
• 24:00
  say. I think for me, Highway tels a little bit of a hybrid
• 24:06
  album. I think don't think Lang goes as far with the sound as he
• 24:08
  does I'm back in Black, or it's a change in the studios or something.
• 24:12
  I think there's still a little bit of rawness going on at times on
• 24:17
  the Highway Towel album. That's certainly smoothed out, and I think and largely
• 24:21
  gone by the time they get to Back in Black. That's having spent so
• 24:25
  long listening to the albums recently, again and again and again. But that's
• 24:29
  what I'm picking up. And tracks like Girls Got Rhythm touched too much,
• 24:34
  probably a little more commercial with a small C than ac DC would generally be
• 24:40
  used to. And I noticed this because I listened to Girls Got Rhythm and
• 24:44
  I'm okay with that. Then incomes Walk All Over You, and I'm more
• 24:48
  sold on that. I'm more in for the ride with that one. Yeah,
• 24:51
  And that reminds me more of what I like on ac DC. And
• 24:56
  I'd said to you that I have a little problem beside too, that shotdown
• 25:00
  of Flames Get It Hot. If you want blood, You've got it,
• 25:03
  Love Hungry Man, Night Prowler Well Angus haspit Love Hungry Man as one of
• 25:07
  his least favorite ac DC songs for a start, and again there's Lang influence
• 25:14
  on that, And and I really like Love Hungry Remember, I'm not necessarily
• 25:18
  sure that it fits on an ac DC album. I think it depends what
• 25:22
  mood i'man when I've got up for what I'm doing when I listen to it,
• 25:26
  Get It Hot, I'm not so keen on at all, and I'm
• 25:30
  not sure about Night Prowl or either. To be honest, hmmm, I
• 25:36
  don't necessarily see as the best end to an album that it could have been.
• 25:41
  Yeah, Love Hungry Man's got an interesting bassline from Cliff Williams. He
• 25:48
  has it, really really has. But Angus apparently listens to it, you
• 25:52
  know, and thinks, oh, really, that's that was going a bit
• 25:56
  far maybe on what we should have been doing. Yeah, I was.
• 25:59
  I was just listening to Brian Adams album that Muttline produced. Like if you,
• 26:03
  I guess if you listen to enough music from that era that, especially
• 26:07
  when Mutlange was producing albums you could just tell the Paramania well Howard Hell and
• 26:14
  back of Back Paramania and Hysteria and Wake Up the Neighbors. Was Brian Adams
• 26:19
  the Gang Vocals. That's a big thing for a month. But he's also
• 26:23
  on there as well. Let's give the guy credit. If you're listening,
• 26:26
  you start to tune in, and I'd say to anyone listening to this podcast,
• 26:30
  go and listen to Highway to Tell or Back in Black. Listen to
• 26:33
  it four or five times on the trot and suddenly things you start to get,
• 26:37
  things that you've either shut down or ignored because of familiarities, saying maybe,
• 26:41
  but he's there. You can hear him Lane clearest day on the backing
• 26:45
  vocals. He's the top voice and he's let's be honest, he's the best
• 26:48
  singer in the backing vote. You can tell he's a hard interview to get
• 26:52
  though he doesn't do interviews. Yeah, no, I got hold of someone
• 26:57
  close to him and reaction at all and the same. Actually, and while
• 27:03
  we're on it, we've I didn't think i'd get Brian or the youngs or
• 27:07
  any of those people. So the people I tended to get with those more
• 27:11
  on the fringes, Mike Fraser was a complete surprise to get interviewed. That's
• 27:15
  a great way, Michael Browning, I didn't expect that either. Yeah,
• 27:22
  he was really good to talk to. But they're very very closed office and
• 27:26
  said very contained. Yeah. Just the fact that you were able to get
• 27:29
  some people within their circle was impressive. Fraser has a great story that I'm
• 27:33
  thunderstruck I want to ask you about. That's one of my favorite stories.
• 27:37
  But let's go back now too. So nineteen seventy nine, into nineteen eighty,
• 27:41
  and the story is well known. We know what happens to Bond February
• 27:45
  nineteenth, nineteen eighty. He's only thirty three. Acute alcohol poisoning. Corner
• 27:48
  of classified it as death by misadventure. Thirty two year old Brian Johnson singing
• 27:55
  in the band JEORDI also had a little business. I think it was a
• 27:57
  vinyl car room fitter in England. I think that was the business he had.
• 28:02
  I've also heard that he was living at home still. He was living
• 28:03
  at home with his parents, just trying to make ends meet. And he
• 28:07
  gets the call to audition for a gig in March of nineteen eighty. Don't
• 28:11
  tell him what it's for, who the band is. He just shows up
• 28:14
  and sure enough there's He walks in and I think he saw Malcolm and Angus
• 28:18
  and the guy's shooting pool and he's like, okay, I think this is
• 28:22
  Forrazy DC and he gets the gig. We know that. Back in Black
• 28:26
  nineteen eighty and the numbers don't lie. It sold an estimated fifty million copies
• 28:32
  worldwide, making it one of the best selling albums in music history, fourth
• 28:34
  best selling album in the US. Now Here's a wild sat the best selling
• 28:38
  album that never reached the top spot on the American charts. It reached number
• 28:42
  seven. It was number one in Australia and the UK, but not the
• 28:47
  US. Ten tracks all stellar, with one maybe even two being timeless songs
• 28:53
  that will live well, they'll live past us. That would be I would
• 28:59
  say, back in Black and definitely you shook me all it long. So
• 29:02
  here's the full track listing. Now, How's Bells shoot a thrill? What
• 29:04
  do you do for money? Honey? What do you do for money?
• 29:08
  Honey? Given the dog a bone? Let me put my love into you.
• 29:12
  Finishing side one, side two, Back in Black, You shook me
• 29:17
  all night long, Have a drink on me, shake a leg and rock
• 29:18
  and roll. Ain't noise pollution. There are so many great stories in the
• 29:22
  book. Let me just pick one. What's the story behind Hell's Bells in
• 29:26
  terms of the lyrics in the bell? Yeah? Well, the bell,
• 29:32
  I mean that was an interesting thing. I mean I remember coming back and
• 29:36
  put in the album on and there was something as soon as you heard that,
• 29:41
  belt to me a CDC. Howay's help, Bonnie, here we all
• 29:44
  be brought on. I'm seeing at home putting these and you know the impact
• 29:48
  of this record on that first day was he meant that something, the bandit
• 29:52
  it was to me it was like they'd grown up or something and it had
• 29:56
  gone to the next level that they couldn't get to. Suddenly they were right
• 29:59
  there with a terrific set of songs. As you just said in the album's
• 30:03
  up with Hell's Bells, which is a very brave, kind of powerful tribute
• 30:07
  to Bond. As soon as you hear that tolling bell, it was quite
• 30:11
  affecting. I remember the first time to think to open with that was very
• 30:14
  clever, and they approached the tailor foundry in luffer And, Leicestershire to make
• 30:21
  a bell and they ended up making a one ton bell tune to eat,
• 30:26
  which was then pitch corrected to see for the recording. The original plan was
• 30:30
  to record the loft for World War One memorial Caroline set of bells, but
• 30:33
  they couldn't do that because the pigeons kept coming out and making a noise and
• 30:37
  they couldn't get rid of them. Bad story. So in the end they
• 30:41
  did use the bell recorded at the foundry and live and I keep checking out.
• 30:47
  I think originally it was an actual bell that Brian used to ring in
• 30:51
  eighty eighty one or it isn't anymore. He kind of they use a recording,
• 30:55
  don't they, But I think originally it did used to actually make a
• 30:56
  noise, as I remember it well. And it's interesting because Brian's track record
• 31:03
  of actually writing songs with Jordi, the band who was in over here were
• 31:07
  kind of a pop rock band in the in the vein of Slade or Sweet
• 31:11
  if you like. He hadn't really had a track record of writing lyrics really
• 31:17
  at all. I think you're in about nine songs or co wrote them.
• 31:21
  And he does actually say in his own book that he had writer's block on
• 31:25
  arrival. And the tropical storm pits Compass points studios where they're recording in the
• 31:29
  Bahamas and Brian Lang commented on that it been rolling thunder and Brian said they
• 31:37
  called it in Britain and he went off and you know, basically said he
• 31:41
  was given a weather report, you know, in terms of the lyrics.
• 31:44
  But it is an immensely powerful opening track. I've got to say this point.
• 31:48
  You know that if you look at the track list for that album Back
• 31:52
  in Black, it constantly amazes me when you go back on side too.
• 31:56
  You open with back in Black, which I think is quite kind of a
• 32:00
  musing you know you've turned the red world road, but you're back that kind
• 32:02
  of but you shook me all night long. Now the song has written to
• 32:07
  the way it looks to me, almost buried on side to trying to be
• 32:12
  You think it would be side one right near the top, that's these to
• 32:15
  do. Back in the day, they'd stack a lot of the hits up
• 32:17
  front on the first side. And I looked at people, it isn't the
• 32:22
  best ac DC albums are the better albums? I look through all this and
• 32:25
  I listened to this album again and again and again. I thought, do
• 32:29
  you know what it is? The best? Really? I think generally,
• 32:32
  I don't think the numbers lie. I think that there really is magic or
• 32:36
  alchemy or given the amount the very short period of time they had to record
• 32:42
  this album, it is. And the backstory of Bond having passed on,
• 32:45
  yeah, yeah, we didn't mention that it was like with all within the
• 32:49
  same year, within months, like just two three months time they were back
• 32:52
  in this studio, or they were released rehearsing or auditioning I'm sorry, auditioning
• 32:58
  new singers, because the pairents of Bond told Angus and Malcolm move forward.
• 33:02
  The funeral died in February, they recorded it April til May. They won't
• 33:07
  be in the hole without it until May, and then it was It was
• 33:12
  released in July. I mean, that's extraordinary to come out of an album
• 33:16
  without quality. Yeah, extraordinary. Yeah. I think part of the reason
• 33:22
  that is possibly because I think Malcolm and Angus had always written lyrics as well
• 33:29
  as Bond. I'm sure they chipped in and did bit, so they had
• 33:31
  always written lyrics to some degree. And Michael Browning was adamant that Back in
• 33:37
  Black was He said, that's got to be a Malcolm title. That looks
• 33:40
  exactly like a Malcolm title to me. Yeah. Yeah, of course there's
• 33:45
  the story of did Bond write lyrics or not? And that's what I want
• 33:47
  to ask you when we get you shook me on it long. But before
• 33:51
  we get to that one, Back in Black, the title track, there's
• 33:53
  a story Angus tells that you put in the book of the origins of this
• 33:58
  one. Malcolm came up with the ref but he wasn't convinced it was good
• 34:00
  enough. That's amazing. I think it was an acoustic too. Initially,
• 34:06
  We've been sort of playing around with it for about three weeks or so,
• 34:07
  and apparently came into Angus one night and said, if you got your cassette,
• 34:13
  you know, I can I record this? Can I put it down?
• 34:15
  While it's in my head. He's driving me mad and I won't get
• 34:16
  any sleeps. Let put it on cassette and he said, he said to
• 34:21
  Angus, what do you think of this? I don't know if it's crap
• 34:22
  or not, but what Malcolm came was one of the probably the catchiest big
• 34:28
  bass rifts in rock music ever written. Now, my youngest daughter to no
• 34:31
  I'll give her a shout out here, and she's quite right. She says,
• 34:35
  you cannot walk down the street or anywhere and have backing black on your
• 34:38
  headphones or whatever and not feel pumped up and live and ready for anything.
• 34:43
  Absolutely. Absolutely, That's what's so great about a CDC's music. It always
• 34:49
  manages to do that for me. But a song like that undeniable. I
• 34:53
  think it was an acoustic when he put it on the I may have heard
• 34:58
  wrong, but I car I think the on the cassette tape it was an
• 35:00
  acoustic. Yeah, that. That's amazing that Malcolm just I don't know if
• 35:05
  it's good enough. Yeah, it's good enough. Yeah, And you shook
• 35:09
  me all night long. So this is this is where I want to get
• 35:13
  to the controversy. You did Brian write all the lyrics? Some done and
• 35:17
  there have there has always been those who believe that the lyrics on this album
• 35:22
  came from bond Scot's notebook. So you do address this in the book.
• 35:27
  What's been the story regarding that and what do you believe is true? But
• 35:31
  the situation is this, he's definitely brought Bond Scott used to make notes and
• 35:36
  come up with ideas, catch phrases, things he heard and write them down.
• 35:40
  And we know this is a fact because there are people who saw that
• 35:45
  book you would carry around with him. One of them was the guy used
• 35:47
  to write for Kerrang and Classy Rot, Malcolm Dome. Now he says he
• 35:52
  he's seen this notebook and not long before Bond died, and he swears blind
• 35:57
  that he actually saw some notes written in the book and one of the lines
• 36:00
  that he saw written down that courts his eye was she told me to come,
• 36:05
  but I was already there, And he was absolutely adamant on this and
• 36:12
  it does sound like the sort of thing on Scott would right then, Brian
• 36:17
  actually said in twenty twenty one and he told Absolute Radio that Malcolm and Angus
• 36:22
  said we got a song, we got a title, and the titles you
• 36:28
  shoot Me all Night Long, which means that Malcolm and Angus must have come
• 36:32
  up with obviously the title possibly Bonded, but certainly Brian didn't say. Brian
• 36:37
  is basically he says, if you listen to the chords, it all kind
• 36:40
  of falls into place. While lyrics he would use, and he says so
• 36:45
  that he just wrote the lyrics to fit that. But the problem really is
• 36:50
  it's twofold. One is the ac DC's lyrics do get noticeably, should we
• 36:53
  say, a bit more simpler. Maybe as the years go on, there's
• 36:59
  less cleverness. I mean, bond Scott was very much a word smith and
• 37:02
  was very it was very clever with the way you would phrase things and say
• 37:07
  things and put things across, and that does really go as the band go
• 37:10
  on. So would they have used bond Scott's notes when they're in this situation
• 37:15
  where he's passed away in February, they haven't got Lung. You've got a
• 37:20
  new singer who's only written or co written nine songs. You've got Malcolm and
• 37:22
  angers who can certainly write lyrics. Well, we see that later on.
• 37:27
  You can see the kind of stuff that they tend to come up with.
• 37:30
  Would they have used some notes and phrases from bond Scott and I honestly think
• 37:35
  personally no evidence. I think they probably would would. Why would you not
• 37:42
  do that? Now? I know why you need to keep it a secret?
• 37:45
  Might not? Well, the trouble is it goes with the credits on
• 37:50
  the album, the publishing all songs Young Young Johnson, and that's what it
• 37:57
  says. I didn't haven't these secret. The story is I think Malcolm Dome
• 38:00
  talked about this, or maybe it was yeap oh boy. It was in
• 38:07
  another book, uh that they were giving Jesse think And Jesse was on this
• 38:10
  this podcast and he talked about it, and it's in his book that they
• 38:15
  secretly gave publishing to the Bond Scott family. Yeah, I must give a
• 38:21
  big shout. Jesse thinks two books on bon Scott ac DC our essential reads.
• 38:28
  If you're a fan, now you might disagree with some things he says,
• 38:31
  which would be your right to do so well. He talked about it
• 38:34
  here. He had some death threats. I mean, he had some fans
• 38:38
  who were not happy with with what he wrote. But his intent was not
• 38:42
  to stir things up. He just was looking to find out the truth.
• 38:45
  Again, I go back to what's that would have been. I think it
• 38:47
  would have been a nice story to say that Bond wrote some of the lyrics
• 38:51
  and just put him on the publishing, and it would have been I thought
• 38:53
  it would have been cool. I would have thought so too. But we
• 38:59
  have an a situation. We have a couple of situations going along with things
• 39:02
  aren't perhaps quite what you might expect them to be as regards to their publishing
• 39:07
  and credits. I would say, but that's probably a big one. But
• 39:10
  they obviously felt we want to move forward. This is the band now.
• 39:15
  We don't want to sort of look as we're relying on some I don't know
• 39:19
  credibility. They want to make sure that people know Brian is. They don't
• 39:22
  want to make people think Brian is not capable of writing the lyrics. Maybe
• 39:27
  that's what they were thinking, something like that. But I have looked at
• 39:31
  the lyrics because I've read Jesse's book. So I've gone through them and I
• 39:35
  do think he's right. I think as you go on, the kind of
• 39:37
  the cleverness and the word play definitely does go as they go on. The
• 39:44
  book down Right podcast will be back after this. Chris Sutten, he's the
• 39:50
  author of ACDC Every Album, Every Song. March twenty ninth. It's out
• 39:53
  in the UK here in the US May thirty first, So high expectations for
• 40:00
  the follow up to Back and Black. In nineteen eighty one, ac DC
• 40:02
  released for Those About the Rock and it hit number one in the US first
• 40:07
  number one in the US, number three in both Australia and the UK.
• 40:10
  Let's Get It Up in the title track were the singles. We know.
• 40:14
  Angus was inspired by a book he was reading about gladiators, and it's likely
• 40:19
  Daniel Mannox's nineteen fifty eight book Those About to Die talk about that in the
• 40:23
  book. But those cannons going off, we still don't know where they were
• 40:28
  recorded. There's a mystery on that, Yeah, there is, I mean
• 40:31
  the book. It took me a while to dig this out, but as
• 40:35
  soon as I knew that Ridley Scott had based the whole of Gladiator on Daniel
• 40:38
  Maddicks's book, and then I looked at the publishing history of it in any
• 40:42
  of the books and Gladiators, Daniel Mannix's book for Those About to Die,
• 40:45
  I would think he's certainly the one Angus must have read. It's one of
• 40:52
  a c DC's biggest songs. I get the stand up of Minick every single
• 40:57
  time I heard it from that into every time. I mean, it just
• 41:00
  gets to do it, really really does. My only problem on the intro
• 41:05
  of the song actually is Brian that a controversy. I don't like the bit
• 41:08
  he does before he does his first line, where it sounds like he's standing
• 41:12
  at the side and kind of scatting and joining in. When he comes in
• 41:15
  with the stand up and be cancy for what you're about to receive. I
• 41:19
  think it's great, but I wish they'd just left it, left him alone
• 41:23
  until that point, just let the intro be be instrumental. I spoke to
• 41:28
  the engineered day thone or who worked on it. I thought, I'm going
• 41:30
  to find out that the canons, how the cannons were done, and he
• 41:32
  just outright refused, it's a trade secret. We're never going to tell anyone.
• 41:37
  How the canons were created, and that made me intro thoughts. So
• 41:40
  they didn't actually record canons. Maybe is it something like that, I don't
• 41:45
  know, but then notoriously difficult to get on record. There's someone Alice Cooper's
• 41:49
  fellow a right at the end that you can only barely hear if you know
• 41:52
  they're there. I remember the Boston Pops who were an orchestra in America,
• 41:57
  and they did the eighteen twelve over George Chika. There's a whole bit on
• 42:00
  the back of the old poach my dad had about how difficult is it actually
• 42:04
  been to record canons and make them sound like cannons rather than something pathetic or
• 42:08
  you know, but it's amazing. And another point I wanted to make here
• 42:15
  is you listen to that song, and there's probably a lot of people who
• 42:17
  haven't go back and listen to the studio version. The thing that hits you
• 42:22
  is how much more kind of slow it is. You listen to the live
• 42:29
  versions and it's played with much greater ferocity and tempo than the original version.
• 42:36
  Is. I got to listen to the too, yeah, mine them up.
• 42:39
  Yeah. The energy of that song is I can imagine when they're live
• 42:44
  but yeah, that's cool. That's another one of the e c DC mysteries.
• 42:47
  It's old school, old school, you got to have a little mystery.
• 42:52
  Nineteen eighty three is Flick of the Switch, followed number fifteen in the
• 42:54
  US, three in Australia, four in the UK. Mott Lang was Gone.
• 42:59
  The being wanted this one to be as raw as possible. Guns for
• 43:02
  Hire and Flick of the Switch and Nervous Shakedown or the singles. Mixed response
• 43:07
  from audiences and critics right because Martin pop Off, the author, was on
• 43:10
  he actually he loves the album. But I know those who don't. They
• 43:15
  just feel it's a little too maybe too rushed. I don't know. The
• 43:20
  sales of the album weren't good. What do you think of the album?
• 43:23
  Maybe not too rush, but maybe I don't know. Maybe it just it
• 43:29
  lacked the production guidance of the mut laying but that they wanted it to be
• 43:34
  raw. They wanted it to be like spur of the moment, let's just
• 43:36
  turn the mic on, turn the gear on, and let's go. I
• 43:39
  believe that Lang was originally going to do the album and things fell through,
• 43:44
  but they'd spent so many months in the studio doing. For those about to
• 43:46
  rock, we langed kind of as you'll know, precision recording techniques and let's
• 43:51
  try that again. Let's try that again, try that again. But of
• 43:54
  course, you know, back in those days, which are the points I've
• 43:57
  made on the previous chats with yourself, you didn't know this. You would
• 44:01
  get a review in the press if you saw it, that would tell you
• 44:05
  what you're going to get. But By and Ludge, guys like me,
• 44:07
  we went up. We bought the album blind because we love the band,
• 44:12
  and then you found out it's what you got. So if you were one
• 44:15
  of these millions of say, say American fans are coming with Highway to Held
• 44:20
  Back in Black for those about rock, yeah, you're going to get a
• 44:22
  big shot when you put flick of the switch on because suddenly you're thinking,
• 44:25
  well, what's going on here? I mean it's raw. From the first
• 44:29
  track Rising Power and I Love Rising Power. I think ac DC you actually
• 44:34
  have had this tremendous thing of having it like a terrific song is the opening
• 44:37
  track on their album I Love Rising Power. I think the album's it is
• 44:43
  very raw, so it does lack some of the subtleties that perhaps Lang would
• 44:47
  have put in. But I think it's a strong set of songs. I
• 44:51
  think the songs are stronger sayers for those about to rock. But they don't
• 44:54
  have the production for ness, that's for sure, it really really doesn't.
• 45:00
  In fact, there was trouble recording it because that to redo Brian's vocals.
• 45:06
  It was originally recorded back at Compass Point in Nassau, with Malcolm and Angus
• 45:10
  apparently producing it. That's where they That's where they recorded back in Black,
• 45:15
  and I think they recorded for those about the rock there too. Let me
• 45:20
  have a look just think for those about to rock recorded, I think it
• 45:23
  was certainly they might have gone to New York for some of that. I
• 45:25
  think possibly Paris, mostly in Paris for those about to rock. So I
• 45:35
  think it's a good album. Flick at the Switch. I think there's some
• 45:37
  great songs, and there's some of that are a bit pedestrian. Perhaps we
• 45:40
  were talking earlier about the lyrics possibly going down a bit, and there's certainly
• 45:44
  some examples of that on this brain Shake, for example deep in the Hole.
• 45:51
  There's scarcely any lyrics on those tracks really other than the ones the title.
• 45:55
  Yeah, I was just going to say, I had my mike mutter
• 45:58
  and I was talking there and you couldn't hear them, just my to moving.
• 46:00
  But the a CDC sound, you know, it's so addictive. So
• 46:04
  just to to get back to a flick of the Switch, I mean,
• 46:07
  just so I can listen to any AC DC album really, just because the
• 46:12
  sound is just so mesmerizing to me. So I can't say a bad thing
• 46:15
  about any a CDC album as a whole, but you know, with Flick
• 46:20
  of the Switch, Yeah, there are songs that I will skip over.
• 46:22
  But still I think I appreciate the the effort that they made. They wanted
• 46:25
  it to be raw, they wanted it to even the videos I think were
• 46:29
  very simple for I recall correctly, just black and white them in the in
• 46:34
  the studio, I think making the video. I thought the cover was one
• 46:37
  of the big problems of the album, you know, Eric, I mean
• 46:40
  again, back in the day, the covers were so vital. You're looking,
• 46:44
  oh yeah, right, there's nothing to me about that cover that makes
• 46:47
  me think, yeah, right, I want this pretty simple. It's like
• 46:52
  almost like a drawing, like a pencil drawing. There it is, Yea,
• 46:58
  it sounds ridiculous. Maybe maybe the cover being better or bigger. Maybe
• 47:00
  it might have made the album film more like something better than it was to
• 47:07
  some people. I don't know, but some great songs on there there really
• 47:10
  is. I like a nervous shakedown very much. Yes, one of my
• 47:14
  all time favorites. Yeah, from the from the Brian era. Yeah,
• 47:20
  you know, it's funny to you talked about in those days you bought the
• 47:23
  album blind. I've heard Kiss fans talk about buying a ticket to go see
• 47:28
  Kiss and it turns out Ace wasn't even there. It was Vinnie Vincent in
• 47:32
  the young makeup. That's what it was like. Back then, it was
• 47:36
  just you just even in the newspapers the advertisement had Ace's picture on it.
• 47:40
  It was a whole different era. Now you could now you could. Now
• 47:45
  you have to actually make an effort to not get online and spoil it,
• 47:49
  because if you're going to go to see a concert, you can find out
• 47:51
  what the setlist is going to be. You are you could, You could
• 47:53
  ruin the surprise on your own. So we've come that far to where you
• 48:00
  can know whatever you want to know ahead of time, whereas back in those
• 48:02
  days it was all a surprise. Absolutely. I mean some bands on a
• 48:08
  Black Sabbath talk about you know that they suffered with technical ecstasy because of punk,
• 48:14
  which hadn't even really happened in the UK when it came out. But
• 48:16
  everyone I know bought that album bought it because we like sabotage as simple as
• 48:21
  that. Yeah, you buy in you think, Oh I like that one.
• 48:25
  I'm to go again? Yeah, yep, so a CDC. And
• 48:30
  as we get now more into the eighties, they remained one of the biggest
• 48:34
  touring acts the rest of the decade. But the albums you could say,
• 48:37
  the result in uneven Results nineteen eighty five is Fly on the Wall came next.
• 48:43
  They released the song Who Made Who for the Stephen King film Maximum Overdrive
• 48:47
  and put it on a soundtracks last best of album called Who Made Who?
• 48:52
  Nineteen eighty eight. Blow Up Your Video was the last of the decade.
• 48:57
  They fared well on the charts, sold well. And this goes back to
• 49:00
  what you're saying, just being a huge ACDC fan, the sound of a
• 49:04
  c d C. I can enjoy those albums, and I quite I find
• 49:07
  quite a few of them that I like. Sink the Pink, Shaky Foundations,
• 49:10
  I love Who Made Who? Heat, seek or come to mind?
• 49:14
  What do you think of the second half of the eighties output from a C
• 49:17
  d C. Yeah, I got to mention got big gun as well,
• 49:21
  haven't we? Big Gun? Was that nineties? Big gun with it?
• 49:24
  Yeah, that would have been nineties. I think when I'm going with that
• 49:28
  is that for me, it's the area without Phil Rudd is the way I
• 49:31
  learned to think as well. And I think he was a huge Not to
• 49:37
  decry Simon Wright's efforts and Chris slides of it, who were both find drummers,
• 49:40
  but the sound of a C d C for me, you've got to
• 49:45
  have Phil Rudd in that. I hear you. Yeah, it's very evident.
• 49:50
  I don't. I don't like Chris Laide's drums on Razor's Edge, and
• 49:52
  he's an awesome drummer. He's a phenomen I just don't let it. It's
• 49:57
  it's it just proves that it's not that easy what Phil Rudd wise and is
• 50:00
  doing. That's interesting you say that, because I was nervous about saying that
• 50:07
  myself at times. Yeah, Chris Lead's a brilliant drummer, man, I
• 50:10
  love them the firm. It's phenomenal, But it's just a certain sound of
• 50:15
  tightness to the Phil Rudd sound. Yeah, I think they started to struggle
• 50:21
  a little bit with I mean maybe there was a drop off in audience and
• 50:24
  sales. I mean Flying the Walls production is pretty rough, to say the
• 50:30
  least I would say. But then you get who Made Who, which is
• 50:34
  a great song. I mean I think that that that kind of brought them
• 50:37
  back a bit blokey. Video is a good album. But it's got heat
• 50:42
  Seek and you'll see this going on and now with a track one that's that's
• 50:45
  your go to track often and they see DC album heat Seeker. I love
• 50:50
  that song very much. Indeed, there's more on that outum my leg to
• 50:53
  rough stuff. I like, yeah, yeah, that's but Malcolm we should
• 50:59
  know too. Malcolm was having his problems with alcohol, so he wasn't he
• 51:01
  wasn't as fully focused or even part of the picture as we get towards the
• 51:05
  end. Oh yeah, right, there's the other thing you see with ac
• 51:09
  DC, where you get this this comeback out thing. Ac DC a back.
• 51:15
  I think Razor's Edge was one of the times I started to hear this
• 51:17
  and it was only two years since they've been away, and when they come
• 51:21
  out with Razor's Edge after Blowup Your Video, and there's some great stuff the
• 51:24
  title track on Razor's Edge, I really like, yeah, let's go there,
• 51:28
  Yeah, let's go with Let's let's see nineteen ninety Razors Edge. Yeah,
• 51:31
  big comeback, Thunderstruck, Are you ready? Money talks all the hit
• 51:35
  singles, but yeah, it was a comeback. The album goes to number
• 51:39
  two in the US, four in the UK, three in Australia. But
• 51:43
  yeah, there are changes that the band made. Talk about that sober Malcolm
• 51:46
  makes a huge difference, but also lyrically, now there's a there's a decision
• 51:52
  made on this. At the time, I remember this vividly. We were
• 51:55
  told so we're told was in the press that Brian was going through a divorce
• 52:01
  and couldn't focus on doing the lyrics and so on. So Malcolm and Angus
• 52:06
  were going to be responsible for the lyrics, you know, and the music
• 52:09
  as well. But then in twenty twenty two, Brian gives an INTIVI a
• 52:14
  roll in Stone and says it was a management decision, it wasn't anything to
• 52:19
  do with me, and in his words, it was listen, Brian,
• 52:22
  I think the boys are going to write all the lyrics now and he says
• 52:27
  he didn't mind, I mean, which is very big of him because it
• 52:29
  means he's now out of the publishing picture completely. Everything goes to Angus and
• 52:34
  Malcolm in terms of the songwriting, although later on he just claimed to write
• 52:38
  some lines, still famous as one on Black Ice will come to where he
• 52:42
  claims to have written one of the lines, So I would imagine he's still
• 52:45
  chipped in but didn't get any publishing for it. Yeah, Jesse, you
• 52:49
  think I remember seeing on this podcast that he felt it was just for publishing
• 52:52
  reasons. That was his opinion. It's a bit hard. I can see
• 52:58
  why he says that, and it's hard to disagree, isn't it really?
• 53:02
  So just look at it like that? Tell me this story. I've heard
• 53:07
  it. I've read it. It's in one of the books I have about
• 53:09
  Thunderstruck and Fraser and Angus with a cigarette in his mouth recording the guitar part,
• 53:16
  which, by the way, folks, is all one take. That's
• 53:21
  Angus man. Yeah. When I did this book, one thing I noticed
• 53:24
  was AC DC actually don't talk about their songs very much in interviews. You
• 53:29
  know, they'll talk about one or two songs per album at most. Otherwise
• 53:34
  it's a case of his annual album. This is what we've put on it.
• 53:37
  But so I thought there'd be loads of comments on lots of the songs
• 53:40
  that there just isn't in interviews anywhere. But so Angus basically on the Bloaty
• 53:45
  video to his visiting his wife's parents who lived in Holland, as you may
• 53:49
  know, and he's traveling there after the Stockholm gig in March eighty eight and
• 53:54
  his aircraft gets struck by lightning en route and fortunately there's land about any problems.
• 54:00
  But it's from that that he got the idea of writing, coming up
• 54:04
  with what became Thunderstruck as a practice thing on the guitar. You can hear
• 54:08
  that it's probably a practice thing to limber upon if you think about it.
• 54:12
  And he thought it was interesting, put it down, gave it to Malcolm
• 54:15
  who thought, yeah, this has really got something there. So Angus goes
• 54:20
  away, comes back, by which point they've worked out an arrangement and everything,
• 54:23
  and Mike Fraser picked it ad as one of the best moments recording you
• 54:29
  ever had with a CDC. Mike was engineer and co producer on that album,
• 54:35
  and they thought that there should be some kind of an intro, and
• 54:38
  Angus had got the idea for it and wants to try it and sits on
• 54:42
  the stool with his guitar, lights his cigarette. They start the take rolling
• 54:45
  and Angus starts playing that you know, the famous line, and it was
• 54:51
  only supposed to be on the intro, says Phraser. That was it,
• 54:53
  and then the song would come in. But he just kept going. Angus
• 54:58
  just keeps going and going and go. It doesn't even take the cigarette out
• 55:00
  of his mouth all the way to the end, even does the slow down
• 55:05
  without having to do it. That step he slows it down naturaliic to stop,
• 55:08
  and he's still got this long ash of smoke from the end of the
• 55:13
  cigarette. It's still in his mouth. Now it was me or you and
• 55:16
  we smoked. I'll be sat there like this nervously to trying to get through
• 55:21
  it and get it right, not angered the cigarette, do the job job
• 55:23
  done in the zone. I love that story you need And Fraser said,
• 55:29
  yeah, it's all one take. I mean they fade down throughout the song,
• 55:31
  but there's no splicing together, there's no studio magic. It's all one
• 55:36
  take. So Now next time you listen to that song, you guys are
• 55:39
  listening to this now, just keep that in mind. One take Angus the
• 55:44
  Man. Yeah, that puts a CDC back in the game. Razor's Edge
• 55:49
  and all of the classic songs they now have at this point, I mean,
• 55:52
  they're a huge concert draw. So they released the live album shortly after
• 55:58
  that. Now studio albums. They released one more in the nineties. That's
• 56:00
  ninety five's ball Breaker, which is produced by Rick Rubin, which I don't
• 56:04
  think they had a great experience. On YouTube, there's audio of Malcolm and
• 56:07
  Angus talking about each album and they really just they did not have a great
• 56:13
  experience with that. But the title track I Love Hard as a Rock,
• 56:15
  Hail Caesar, and Cover You and Oil were the three singles number one Australia,
• 56:20
  six, UK four US. Then they kick off the two thousands with
• 56:24
  Stiff Upper Lip number seven in the US, twelve in the UK, three
• 56:28
  in Australia. The single Stiff Upper Lips Safe in New York City Satellite Blues
• 56:31
  Safe in New York City. I remember, I think they just pulled that
• 56:35
  was shortly after nine to eleven. I remember they pulled the song of the
• 56:37
  video, it would be eight years until we get another studio album. Eight
• 56:42
  years. What were the reasons for the delay, Well, I mean they
• 56:46
  really had come back and with the band were going great. We got Phil
• 56:49
  road back with ball Breaker, which is absolute joy to fans like Modsell love
• 56:54
  the title track. I think there's that era of a CDC ball Breaker stiff
• 57:02
  Up. But I love those albums. I mean some people say that they're
• 57:07
  not as good, but for me, I can listen to those albums all
• 57:08
  day long. Great song, the groove, the field, the riffs.
• 57:14
  It's a CDC. Man, you're getting what you're expecting. You get what
• 57:15
  you want. Yeah, the Great Rifts. It'd been eighty years, so
• 57:21
  you're thinking what's going I mean, it was a shock when the album came
• 57:22
  out, but they'd left Atlantic Records in two thousand and two and they'd signed
• 57:28
  a multi album deal with Epic, and obviously the band take time off anyway
• 57:34
  between tours. But the major delay seemed to come because there were changes in
• 57:38
  sony which saw the band shifted from their imprints of Epic to Columbia. But
• 57:45
  the big one is probably Cliff Williams. Again, I don't remember hearing about
• 57:49
  this at the time, and I looked, but apparently he had a serious
• 57:52
  accident in two thousand and five when he'd taken a bit of a tumble put
• 57:57
  his hand out to break his fall, and he'd done some broken glass and
• 58:00
  it cut the nerves and tendons in his left hand, and he had to
• 58:04
  have two surgeries, a lot of rehab eighteen months that he was out for.
• 58:10
  And in twenty twenty one he said that he can still only play with
• 58:14
  two fingers, the two on the outside two middle fingers he keeps out of
• 58:19
  the mix. He can make flexibility, but he can't make a fist,
• 58:22
  and he can't bend those fingers individually. And I don't remember hearing at all.
• 58:27
  No. No, in credit to the guys, they waited it out.
• 58:30
  They could have replaced them and moved forward quicker, but they waited.
• 58:35
  It is to their credit. I mean it. Basically, according to the
• 58:38
  youngs, they got around sixty to seventy song ideas, and that's worth keeping
• 58:44
  in your mind at this moment. Sixty to seventy songs by the time they
• 58:46
  go into the Black Eyes sessions, which would pay off ultimately with the sad
• 58:52
  passing of Malcolm so and they picked eighteen was the idea. In the end
• 58:58
  they're going to beg eleven out of eighteen. And in fact that they opted
• 59:00
  for fifteen songs, which is the longest Facey DC album. Yeah, Black
• 59:04
  Ice you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, you said too many, too
• 59:07
  many, But there was also issues with Atlantic where they signed with Sony during
• 59:13
  that. Okay, Sony, there's Sony Music Imprint, Epic Records. Yeah,
• 59:16
  but yeah, Black Eyes too many tracks. Yeah, there are a
• 59:20
  lot of fifteen in all, some great tracks on it. But yeah,
• 59:22
  that was your comment in the book. Too many songs could have been their
• 59:25
  best since back in Black. You say it's a strong album. It's a
• 59:30
  very very strong album, and and credits them of putting out it's an album
• 59:34
  that was so long, I guess. But if it was said back down
• 59:37
  to say, you know, eight ten songs, if you can imagine that
• 59:39
  and picking that from Black Icy, it would obviously make it a stronger album,
• 59:44
  because to some extent, if you're going to have fifteen songs, there's
• 59:47
  got to be some weaker ones in the mix somewhere, you would think,
• 59:52
  and I think there is on Black Ice. There are some that for me
• 59:53
  aren't aren't great, And I think if you took them out, therelbum would
• 1:00:00
  have been a stronger album. Here's a theory, just putting it out there,
• 1:00:02
  because it was during Black Ice that Malcolm's dementia first started. Do you
• 1:00:07
  think they figured, let's just put as many as we can on the album
• 1:00:12
  because we don't know how much longer Malcolm can contribute. Yeah. Well,
• 1:00:17
  again, the kind of the silence from the band. You pick up things
• 1:00:20
  now. I think in the book, I actually was writing this book on
• 1:00:22
  the train. A lot of this book was written on training rock and roll
• 1:00:27
  train. He said, what are you doing? Yeah? I told him
• 1:00:31
  I was doing, And he turned out he'd worked his crew at various concerts
• 1:00:37
  and stuff. And he told me that there was another person backstage on the
• 1:00:42
  Black Ice tour with guitar, just in case Malcolm couldn't play, and that,
• 1:00:46
  Yeah, I've know every done some of them what he told me,
• 1:00:50
  But I can see that that would be credible. Apparently the guy was struggling
• 1:00:53
  with trying to remember the set, and by to him, I mean he's
• 1:00:58
  the governor and driving and the banded up through it. But you could be
• 1:01:00
  right back to your point that maybe that's why the album is so long.
• 1:01:05
  They just wanted to get everything out there and go out with a bangor whether
• 1:01:09
  they were expecting or knew that would be the last one with Malcolm and this
• 1:01:13
  would be his last tour. I think maybe probably they did right. Yeah,
• 1:01:17
  I made a bad joke. There was rock and roll train, but
• 1:01:20
  yeah, that was the lead single, and that's a great song that went
• 1:01:22
  to number one on Billboard's Hot Mainstream Rock Track. Sure, the album number
• 1:01:28
  one in the US, number one in the UK and Australia. I mean
• 1:01:30
  that was considered another comeback album, and then the dementia we talked about during
• 1:01:36
  that period develops with Malcolm. So how do they end up making the next
• 1:01:40
  album, which is Rock or Bust, which is six years later. You
• 1:01:45
  address this in the book. Can you talk about that and the new member
• 1:01:47
  of the band with a familiar last name? Yeah? Absolutely, I mean
• 1:01:52
  that the problem that ACDC got was had to carry on without Malcolm, and
• 1:01:57
  then what they actually did, by the way they looked at it, was
• 1:02:00
  to bring in Stevie Young, who was their nephew and had actually stood in
• 1:02:05
  for Malcolm back on the Blokey video to the American dates when Malcolm was battling,
• 1:02:09
  as you said earlier, with his alcoholism, And they actually said that
• 1:02:15
  a lot of fans didn't know that Malcolm wasn't there because of course they don't
• 1:02:19
  introduced the band on stage or anything. So what you got was somebody looking
• 1:02:22
  very much like Malcolm's standing in Malcolm spot and I think a lot of the
• 1:02:25
  audience wouldn't have thought any different of it, And Stevie certainly does play like
• 1:02:30
  Malcolm. What surprised me, I think, was how strong an album they'd
• 1:02:37
  managed to come up with, really after Malcolm had gone. I think Rock
• 1:02:43
  or Bust is it was way better than I expected it was going to be.
• 1:02:50
  I didn't realize that. Yeah, Playball's great. The title track,
• 1:02:52
  which has a somewhat firm nob to back in Black in the Rearf for me
• 1:02:58
  is a great song. I like that very much. Sweet Candy, Yeah,
• 1:03:04
  I like that too. Jack. Oh no, I'm sorry the Big
• 1:03:07
  Jack was on. Sorry. Yeah, it's a really good tribute. But
• 1:03:13
  notice also that the publishing credits are Angus and Malcolm Young writing everything, whether
• 1:03:21
  Malcolm had left any lyrics behind or whether Angus wrote all the lyrics and all
• 1:03:24
  that Malcolm contributed with some riffs and bits and parts, but he still gets
• 1:03:29
  equal publishing by the look of it with Angus. So these are clearly obviously
• 1:03:35
  leftovers that hadn't made it onto Black Eyes. Angus took great pains to say
• 1:03:40
  that that has always been the case of the ac DC. There's always been
• 1:03:44
  stuff they haven't used and have looked at again. So for leftover's albums,
• 1:03:52
  what you thought it was, it was. It was pretty strong. It's
• 1:03:54
  pretty pretty good album. Rock the Blues Away, it was another good one.
• 1:03:59
  Yeah, yeah, single, So if there was a big surprise for
• 1:04:02
  me, it was probably more that they decided to come back for another album
• 1:04:05
  after that. It is amazing. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. Rocker
• 1:04:09
  Bus by the way number three US and UK won in Australia. But yeah,
• 1:04:14
  let's talk about that now. Their return in twenty twenty, which was
• 1:04:16
  a shock, I think to everybody. Brian Johnson had to be replaced by
• 1:04:19
  Axel Rose on the previous tour due to hearing issues. That was in twenty
• 1:04:25
  sixteen. Drummer Phil Rudd he was out he had some major legal issues stemming
• 1:04:30
  from a criminal case. Chris Lade, who is on Razor's edge he comes
• 1:04:34
  back. Cliff Williams said he was done and retired after the tour, but
• 1:04:40
  the worst of all, Malcolm passed away in twenty seventeen. Yet Power Up
• 1:04:45
  it not only happens, which is a shock that we even get this album.
• 1:04:49
  It's another huge success, number one in the US, UK and Australia.
• 1:04:53
  The lead single Shot in the Dark. Four more singles realized demon Fire,
• 1:04:58
  which is spell through the Mists of Time. So again I asked,
• 1:05:00
  how the heck do they not only end up making the album considering everything that
• 1:05:04
  happened, and how do they pull off another really good album? Yeah?
• 1:05:11
  I believe that obviously these are leftovers that it has to be said that weren't
• 1:05:16
  considered good enough for Rock all Bus. And that's why I have this confusion.
• 1:05:20
  I just assume that they use the best of what they got that Angus
• 1:05:24
  could find for Rock all Bus. So what does that make Power of Now?
• 1:05:28
  I wonder does it mean that some of these tracks are actually only written
• 1:05:31
  by Angus. I know it says Angus Young and Malcolm Young, but you
• 1:05:35
  get something like through the Mists of Time, which would appear to sort of
• 1:05:40
  reference fallen comrades such as Malcolm. Do you think has Malcolm did he contribute
• 1:05:45
  anything to that? Good you? Does Brian contribute and just doesn't get any
• 1:05:49
  publishing some lyrics. I don't see anything that strikes me as being necessarily the
• 1:05:55
  sort of thing Brian would contribute. But I do wonder how much of these
• 1:05:59
  songs is the point I'm making, whether any of them are actually we're brand
• 1:06:01
  new and not stuff that have been held back. Yeah, well they listen.
• 1:06:06
  It's all tracks written by Angus Young and Malcolm Young. They do.
• 1:06:11
  I think Brendan O'Brien and just said that he was the producer, had to
• 1:06:14
  pick the songs that he liked. You know, the track I want to
• 1:06:16
  pick out on the album, He's Kicking when You're Down. Yeah, that's
• 1:06:21
  old school a CDC. Well, I ate that and I'm in the zone,
• 1:06:26
  man, I'm absolutely there. I mean, this is icy. They
• 1:06:28
  can do that all day Young for me, And I mean that came up
• 1:06:31
  when I was going for a ride the other day. I just popped DC's
• 1:06:34
  d on and just hit random on Spotify and that was one of the ones.
• 1:06:38
  Yeah, it is a great song. Brendan O'Brien also produced Rock or
• 1:06:41
  Bust and those two, right, were those the only tour? Did he
• 1:06:45
  do the one before that as well? I believe, I think he's involved
• 1:06:50
  in as well. Was he involved in that one as well? Yeah?
• 1:06:54
  Black Icey's on Yeah, Yeah, so he did three. He did three,
• 1:06:59
  which I remember him talking about because Brian's voice sounded really good on Black
• 1:07:03
  Ice and he was talking about just giving giving Brian more time in between recordings
• 1:07:10
  so he didn't blow his voice out, which I think Brian well, I
• 1:07:14
  mean Brian had had appointed as you well now and the studios at when he
• 1:07:17
  sounded struggling a bit with the keys maybe, And I think it's for me.
• 1:07:23
  The ball Breaker album is when I thought that things had come down a
• 1:07:26
  bit and he and stiff up a lip and I thought he sounded better than
• 1:07:29
  me I had done in a long time. And and and actually I think
• 1:07:31
  he's one of the He plays a terrific game on rock, all Bust and
• 1:07:38
  power Up. Brian is really just lead from the front, really, which
• 1:07:41
  of course he has to because everything would seem to be on Angus, wouldn't
• 1:07:45
  it. I guess really it's Angus's band now, clear as day, it's
• 1:07:48
  Angus's band. When he used to be Malcolm's band. We presumably Angus more
• 1:07:54
  in the background a bit, but but Brian has really stepped up, I
• 1:07:57
  think, and during real manner the match performance is on these these last albums.
• 1:08:01
  It's hard to explain medically what happened with Brian. He talked about it,
• 1:08:05
  but it was something where he played he had an inner ear infection or
• 1:08:09
  something that got worse. Played a played a show somewhere where We're super cold,
• 1:08:13
  got on the got on the airplane, and it was like a crystallized
• 1:08:17
  inside of his ear. It's a lot of medical terminology I'm not familiar with.
• 1:08:23
  You could find it. It's but you can find it online or look
• 1:08:27
  for interviews with Brian. But anyway, long story of shorties, I think
• 1:08:30
  he had something surgically implanted right into his ear, like he found a doctor
• 1:08:32
  that had a rare uh something that was brand new piece of technology and it's
• 1:08:40
  obviously worked. Yeah, and it needed to really because I think if I
• 1:08:45
  see DC were going to carry on for me with any credibility, they need
• 1:08:50
  Brian. I mean I'd go further and say they could do with Phil.
• 1:08:55
  But I'm guessing that my guess would be the some more issues with film that
• 1:09:00
  have perhaps happened. I noticed that he's conspicuously absent on the website on there
• 1:09:06
  on latest pictures and that kind of thing. So and Cliff had obviously just
• 1:09:12
  come back for the festival they paid, the Power Trip Festival in October twenty
• 1:09:17
  three, which was a big surprise to see them do that. But that
• 1:09:23
  looks like that's probably Cliff's finale with the band now. Whether Angus brings back
• 1:09:27
  Cliff and Phil and Records in another album, I don't know. I'm not
• 1:09:31
  sure. I don't think you will want to stop the book down right podcast
• 1:09:35
  will be back after this. What's your prediction for the future of VCDC.
• 1:09:42
  What would you like to see him? And do you want to see it
• 1:09:44
  end? Just have him go out with that album, maybe play a show
• 1:09:46
  or two here and there. I think it seems to still have it.
• 1:09:50
  I saw the footage of them from what was the tour, the big festival
• 1:09:57
  they played in October Power Trip Festival. I'd say I thought they were a
• 1:10:03
  bit rusty, but that's fair enough because they would be. They haven't played
• 1:10:08
  live for some time, and they obviously got the new drummer as well,
• 1:10:13
  who stayed rhythm for live gigs, which is Matt Lag is it, I
• 1:10:16
  think, and a new bass player Chris Cheney place in Cliff Williams, and
• 1:10:21
  obviously having a younger rhythm section. He's going to be helpful because they'll have
• 1:10:28
  more energy and more to do that. But I'd say ac DC is still
• 1:10:33
  credible with Angus, Brian and Stevie. But I would just question, I
• 1:10:42
  question how long they can go on. They are getting older now and Brian
• 1:10:45
  certain years and Angers puts on a high energy performance, so it will be
• 1:10:50
  very noticeable if all of a sudden he's just standing there not doing much.
• 1:10:54
  Like he said, you don't want to get out get out there on a
• 1:10:57
  wheelchair, but he said, but as long as I can feel, as
• 1:11:00
  long as I could feel it when I get on and I'm putting in that
• 1:11:02
  energy, I'll keep doing it. I think he will. I mean,
• 1:11:06
  one of the thing is is there is scope for them, and it's bound
• 1:11:12
  to happen. Of reissuing the back catalog with bonus tracks and live tracks sets
• 1:11:16
  added, I would confidently expect we will get that because I haven't really done
• 1:11:23
  it in the way that other bands have. I know they've just reissued the
• 1:11:27
  albums on vinyl for the fiftieth anniversary, but there's no bonuses or anything on
• 1:11:30
  it. They could certainly there must be some stuff in the archives they could
• 1:11:34
  look at using, even if it's only live sets, so I don't think
• 1:11:39
  we're going to get any shortage of products coming out. They could do a
• 1:11:42
  new album, definitely. I mean that would probably be an easier route in
• 1:11:46
  some respects than to carry on touring. I would have hoped that maybe a
• 1:11:53
  CD he might wind the touring down. I think they have a bit on
• 1:11:55
  this tour, just do kind of festivals and events and not not tour as
• 1:12:00
  much as as heavily as they have in the past. I just don't want
• 1:12:04
  to see them kind of become a caricature or a watered down version of what
• 1:12:11
  they were capable of. And as you said, correctly, Angus's performance is
• 1:12:15
  not I know people who have been to see them over the years and have
• 1:12:18
  been staggered, even not to black Ice, who hadn't seen them before,
• 1:12:23
  and were just amazed at how somebody can go through a set and put that
• 1:12:27
  amount of effort into it as Angus does. It is extraordinary, as anyone
• 1:12:30
  will tell you, what to say. One of the happiest places I've ever
• 1:12:34
  had, probably musically in my life, is being at any ac DC stadium
• 1:12:40
  gig. Normally, I'm not a big fan of stadium gigs. I like
• 1:12:43
  smaller venues and up close and personal. But you get yourself in a crowd
• 1:12:46
  for ac DC and Thunderstruck coms on or you know, any of those,
• 1:12:57
  or for those about the Rock, I mean, is absolutely incredible to be
• 1:13:01
  in a crowd and they're playing those songs. It really really is, and
• 1:13:06
  they should be very, very proud of themselves for what they've done. I
• 1:13:11
  mean, they've kind of been trendy ish at times. I would guess they
• 1:13:14
  seem to be a bit more trending now than they ever have been, certainly
• 1:13:17
  with that ubiquitous logo. I interviewed Jerry Altwera for the book who did the
• 1:13:23
  logo, and he's amazed at having his logo. He's on anything and everything
• 1:13:28
  and everywhere. What did he have to say about the creation of the logo.
• 1:13:32
  He was very he'd actually done a lot of logos. He's done the
• 1:13:34
  Blue Oyster Cults live album, he did the logo for that. He'd done
• 1:13:43
  various other band's logos as well, and it was just a job, a
• 1:13:46
  well paid job. He showed me the original logo and he just pulled it
• 1:13:50
  out of a draw next to him, and this was the act. This
• 1:13:54
  is what was sai. This was the logo. It's in the book.
• 1:13:57
  Yeah, very simple, direct, straightforward, perfect perfect, Yeah, absolutely
• 1:14:01
  between. And again the point that some people have picked up on this,
• 1:14:06
  he was paid for doing the job to create the logo. That's how it
• 1:14:11
  was. Nobody said to him. And by the way, in decades to
• 1:14:14
  come, we're going to put it on this. We're that it's going to
• 1:14:16
  be on this And maybe if that had been known at the time, you
• 1:14:20
  know, you might have said, well, hang on a minute, how
• 1:14:21
  much am I getting paid for this? But he said, you know,
• 1:14:25
  I got paid. I got paid well for it. I got paid right
• 1:14:28
  for it. They paid up. And I said, what did the band
• 1:14:30
  think of it? He said, I don't know. They never said anything,
• 1:14:35
  never met them. And he said, in those days, bands like
• 1:14:39
  A C d C, they didn't know. It was almost a case of
• 1:14:43
  this is the cover, oh right, okay, and we've posed for the
• 1:14:45
  picture, We've done it, oh right, okay. He said he was
• 1:14:48
  only when you get to the levels of like a you know, a Pink
• 1:14:51
  Floyd or a Lead Zupling, they would turn up and pay the big box
• 1:14:56
  money for like hypnosis and specific iron ere I would be standing there and saying
• 1:15:00
  what about this and what about that? And we don't like this. Then
• 1:15:03
  it's like, okay, that's the lowcome great. Yeah, I love that,
• 1:15:05
  you know that's that's that sounds like ACDC. Yeah. The book is
• 1:15:10
  titled ACDC Every Album, Every Song. It is out March twenty nine in
• 1:15:14
  the UK. You can get it through Burning Shed their website. I have
• 1:15:18
  a link to it in the show notes page. In the US, however,
• 1:15:21
  it's not going to be until May the thirty first, but if you
• 1:15:25
  live in the US you can order it through Burning Shed still get it so
• 1:15:30
  that you could do that. I'll put a link to the to the Burning
• 1:15:34
  Shed purchase if you want to get it there, but also the Amazon link
• 1:15:40
  when it's ready to go from May thirty one. And where can people find
• 1:15:45
  you, Chris? Do you have social media pages anywhere that people can reach
• 1:15:50
  out to you? Well, I'm on an Instagram and one of my best
• 1:15:54
  friends in Instagram is you, So that's one way, yes, certainly on
• 1:16:00
  there. Where else can you find? You could find me at my day
• 1:16:02
  jobs made the Heritage Center. We'll start by Okay, I manage in just
• 1:16:10
  outside Birmingham s medic so people can find me there as well. I'm not
• 1:16:15
  on Facebook really, so Instagram is the best way. I'm on there.
• 1:16:18
  Yeah. We should also give a quick plug to the other books that you
• 1:16:21
  have. Alice Cooper. You were on for that one, and what was
• 1:16:26
  the first time you're on for which one was it? I've been on three
• 1:16:30
  times before. I've done Alix Cooper in the seventies, Alice Cooper in the
• 1:16:33
  eighties, right in the seventies, and I'm currently I'm writing one right now.
• 1:16:41
  Actually I'm writing two at this moment. Wow. Okay, oh,
• 1:16:44
  this is your fourth appearance, man, I think I gotta I gotta check
• 1:16:47
  the numbers. That might be a record. I don't know, I'm four
• 1:16:51
  appearances. Yeah, yeah, And I tell you what the episode that we
• 1:16:57
  did on the Alice Cooper book, well in the Black Sabbath too, And
• 1:17:00
  now that they think of it, I mean, they do great numbers.
• 1:17:02
  People just love the stories that you tell. I tell you you know,
• 1:17:08
  I actually get emails on the back of this podcast, people shout me down
• 1:17:14
  and they come forward, and that's really really great. But people take the
• 1:17:17
  time to tell you they like something that's really good, because you know,
• 1:17:21
  it's such a negative, critical world often, right, it's great when somebody
• 1:17:27
  takes the time to contact you. And so I really like this. Thanks
• 1:17:29
  for turning me on to an album I wasn't aware of or something. And
• 1:17:33
  that's terrific feeling it really, Yeah, And what an incredible timer in now
• 1:17:36
  where we can do this stuff with the technology and you know we do this.
• 1:17:43
  We're just when I was sitting alone in a room doing this, so
• 1:17:45
  you don't know who's going to listen to it. But then it goes out
• 1:17:47
  there on the internet and you just say, you just put it out there
• 1:17:51
  and you see what happens. But yeah, I still get a lot of
• 1:17:54
  great comments as well. So did you want to tell us what you're working
• 1:17:58
  on or is it a secret? The two of them now I can do.
• 1:18:00
  There's one which will be has been delayed, which was a book on
• 1:18:05
  sparks in the seventies, the Male Brothers, And we're ironing out should we
• 1:18:13
  say a couple of queries on that book? That we'd had him. That's
• 1:18:17
  getting sorted. The big one, the ridiculous one is the Sheep Organization,
• 1:18:23
  which I'm writing at the moment, which is Narl Rogers, Bernard Edwards,
• 1:18:26
  and they work with she Sister Sledge, David Bowie, Madonna, Diana Ross,
• 1:18:30
  Johnny Mathis. You know, Sheen a big devotion. There's a lot
• 1:18:34
  of albums they've worked on that's ambitious, and then the one that's chopped and
• 1:18:41
  changed a bit and kind of the dust has settled. Originally I was going
• 1:18:45
  to do Black Sabbath in the eighties, and then that just looked like being
• 1:18:50
  almost too difficult for the word count you have to do for these books to
• 1:18:54
  be frank, because there's so many singers, let alone everyone else in Sabbath
• 1:18:59
  in the eighties, and it kind of had a chapter the publishers Sonic Bond
• 1:19:03
  Publishing, and it's become Black Sabbath the do O Years, okay, specifically
• 1:19:10
  the Deal years, and that's going to do well. Okay, yeah,
• 1:19:14
  because they call the band Heaven and Hell. Right. That was wasn't that
• 1:19:17
  in the two thousands that they had to do that. There was a legal
• 1:19:20
  reason, yeah, I think, and also part of I think it made
• 1:19:24
  more sense to call the band Heaven and Hell because it differentiated it to the
• 1:19:29
  output that they've done with do I've done one interview already for that book,
• 1:19:32
  and I've got two in the next couple of days. The interview week I
• 1:19:36
  did with Greg Hildebrand to did the cover of Mob Rules was really fascinating.
• 1:19:41
  I was so lucky to get this guy to talk to me. He doesn't
• 1:19:45
  normally talk to people, apparently did because of one of the questions that I'd
• 1:19:49
  asked in the email. And then will that come out? Do you think
• 1:19:54
  that that Deo era I would probably get early next year. It might be
• 1:20:00
  quicker than that. Potentially it's lining on the interviews. I've got two lined
• 1:20:04
  up. I've got Mike Exeter, who engineered and played on the Better of
• 1:20:10
  the Devil you Know album Heaven and Now he's been working with Tony Imi for
• 1:20:14
  some years. And the one I'm really looking forward to is on Monday.
• 1:20:16
  I've got Wynn Davis and his remix of Live Evil is astonishing. I don't
• 1:20:25
  know if you've got that Live Evil, No, you've got the original if
• 1:20:31
  you listen to the album and then you put his remix on, Oh It's
• 1:20:34
  Night and Day. Yeah, well, I need to invest more time into
• 1:20:38
  the Doo years because I'm a I'm a Sabbath Asi era die Hard, but
• 1:20:43
  I know of of a lot of the Deo songs, the Deo era of
• 1:20:47
  Black Sabbath songs, but I really don't. I can't say I'm I'm an
• 1:20:51
  expert on the do era of Black Sabbath, which is why I look forward
• 1:20:54
  to reading the book like that. I want to learn more. Right,
• 1:20:59
  I think where the Deo era I suppose you might have a problem with is
• 1:21:04
  Ronnie die O singing songs that Assie sang. And that's certainly is probably an
• 1:21:11
  area that you might find a little difficult potentially to get into. It would
• 1:21:15
  say, Ronnie James Delton's to kind of stage almost performed the songs in a
• 1:21:20
  way, and those songs are quite tricky to do. Extremely different styles vocally,
• 1:21:27
  yeah, absolutely different stars. Yeah. Well, it's good fun looking
• 1:21:31
  forward to having you back on for any or all of those books. So
• 1:21:35
  Chris Sutton, thanks so much. As it's always it's always great having you
• 1:21:39
  here and look forward to having you back on. Oh, it's always a
• 1:21:42
  pleasure, it really is. As I say I always finished one of these
• 1:21:45
  books, and I think now and get hold of it and go now.
• 1:21:47
  I love it. I love it. That's great to hear it. Thanks
• 1:21:49
  Chris, thank you Eric. Take care. Man's it. It's in the books.