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Hiring a Technology Leader · Budget Your Business

0:00
Scott: Hello and welcome to Budget Your Business, the podcast for small business owners who want to learn how to financially plan for every aspect of their business.
0:12
Scott: I'm your host, Scott Geller.
0:15
Scott: Today I'm joined by Lori Jennings of Jennings Pro Search to talk about hiring a technology leader.
0:22
Scott: Hello, Lori.
0:25
Scott: How are you doing?
0:26
Scott: Good.
0:27
Scott: Thanks for joining us today.
0:29
Scott: So for folks that who are just meeting you for the first time, could you share a little bit about who you are and what you do?
0:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm the founder of Jennings ProSearch, which is a tech executive recruiting firm.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: I also do advisory, and I place people that are either in the senior technical level up to executive levels, primarily in the mid-market space.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: So fast-growing startups, mid-market companies, private equity held companies, things like that, not Fortune 500 type companies.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: And that goes across all disciplines.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: So tech is very big and broad.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: So it includes anything in IT from operations to any type of IT to cybersecurity, the data, the AI, we're all hearing about, product.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it seems to be expanding as tech expands, but those are primarily the areas, you know, that I that I would cover.
1:30
Scott: Okay.
1:31
Scott: And do you only you don't just work for technology placing at technology companies, right?
1:36
Scott: I mean, you you could place at any company that needs a technology leader.
1:40
Scott: Is that fair to say?
1:41
SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: It's across all industries.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: I don't really do a lot in the government space.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: That's very, you know, you have contracts and things.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, but anything from a nonprofit I've worked with to, you know, healthcare, finance, insurance, across all across all industries, including tech.
2:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
2:01
Scott: Thank you.
2:03
Scott: Um, so maybe let's start off with if I'm a small business owner and I'm thinking about hiring or or mid-tier business owner, and I'm thinking about hiring somebody, help me understand how do I get started.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, first of all, you if you have no one internal that's a technology leader, you know, or on your board, then you probably, well, you probably will need some advisory when it comes down to the type of tech person you need because tech is again, we talked about it so broad, and you need to understand um, you know, really what you're looking for.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: I see that as something that people know they need a tech leader, but they haven't clearly defined that.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: So you need to work on defining what type of tech person you need.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: And the way you do that, you know, is you look at the growth stage you're in.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: Are you a fast-growing startup that may need somebody to help you build out a product?
3:01
SPEAKER_00: Are you a company that's been in business a long time and you just need you already have tech implemented and you need somebody just to keep the lights going, keep it running?
3:09
SPEAKER_00: You know, those are the type of things you need to understand.
3:12
SPEAKER_00: How tech dependent are you?
3:13
SPEAKER_00: Are you Uber where everything runs through an application and it can't go down?
3:18
SPEAKER_00: Or you may be a cleaning service where you can probably get away with a little outage, you know, and it may not need to be as advanced tech.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, look about your strategic priorities.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: Are you looking to buy or sell um companies?
3:32
SPEAKER_00: Merge, add a new division.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: I mean, these are the kind of things you need to be thinking about.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: And then also looking at your competitive landscape.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: If if everybody in your industry, and this is a you know, right now with AI and automation, if you're not thinking about this stuff, there's a likelihood your competitors are, and you're gonna be, you know, obsolete very soon.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna be able to keep up with them if they're working at machine speed and you you haven't started to implement some of this automation.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, so all of those things you need to consider, and that's you know, from a strategic standpoint with your board and your your executives.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, and then you need to look at the timing and your budget.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're the budget guy, right?
4:12
SPEAKER_00: If you clearly if you don't have a budget for it right now, you mean you need to be thinking about that and what does that budget look like?
4:19
SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of times that can dictate you know the type of person you can afford to hire now.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: You may need to hire somebody on a contract basis or a fractional basis if you don't have enough money.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: You may need to to to be looking at managed services or outsourcing, you know, to maybe a consulting firm.
4:37
SPEAKER_00: So all of those are the type of you know things you need to consider um when you're starting to look at hiring an IT layer.
4:47
Scott: And and if I'm going through that process, you named, you know, all this kind of rolls off very easily for you because you're in that, right?
4:55
Scott: If it if I'm if I'm in the business, it's it's sometimes hard to think about all those different aspects.
5:03
Scott: Is that part of what you help with, or is that really for the the management team or the founder to figure out on their own?
5:12
SPEAKER_00: No, I can absolutely, like I said, I do advisory services as part of my you know um search process.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: So a lot of times companies will call me six months to a year in advance and talk about talk about, hey, we're thinking about hiring an IT leader.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: What should we be considering?
5:27
SPEAKER_00: Very much like you're doing right now, Scott, right?
5:30
SPEAKER_00: They'll say, hey, here's where we are.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, here's what we're thinking.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: Is this realistic?
5:36
SPEAKER_00: How much do you think this person will cost?
5:38
SPEAKER_00: What are all the things to consider?
5:40
SPEAKER_00: You know, what's the market look like for hiring these people?
5:42
SPEAKER_00: Can we get these locally?
5:44
SPEAKER_00: Do we need to look outside the area?
5:46
SPEAKER_00: Do we maybe need to consider offshore?
5:48
SPEAKER_00: These are these are the conversations I can help them talk about from a high level, the things they can be, you know, should be considering.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: But what I can't do is dig into the technology aspects.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: So sometimes I have a person, they have, you know, they know they need some kind of technologist.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: They're not really sure what they have because either a third party owns that, say a consulting firm has built out this tech product, they don't even know what this tech product looks like.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: I certainly can't look at code and look at, you know, over this and tell them here we go.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: So at that time, when we get into if that's the case and it's it's it's they really need to understand the tech better.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: What I would say is I would recommend either a consulting firm to come in for a short-term engagement, help them look at that, scope it, help them come up with the type of person they need, or maybe a fractional CTO, similar to what you do, Scott, you know, that can come in for an engagement, talk to them, walk them through the processes of what they should be thinking about, help them, you know, that this person can kind of tell them what's available in technology.
6:53
SPEAKER_00: If they're saying, here are our goals of our business, what should we be thinking about?
6:57
SPEAKER_00: And that person is much more strategic, a fractional CTO or CIO, very much like you are from a CFO standpoint, you know, you're not just a bookkeeper.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: So you need that person that has that strategic mindset that can help walk you through that and then can also figure out technically what that person needs to look like.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: And then when you actually go to hire, they can probably help you interview from a technical standpoint because unless you have a technical person in-house, you know, you're not going to be able to evaluate that very effectively.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: And I certainly I've never done any of these roles.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: I talk to people all day, I know high-level what you should be looking for, I know the messaging that resonates with them, their comp, those type of things.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: But I have never done this job, so I can only go so far in helping you technically screen a candidate.
7:45
Scott: Understood.
7:47
Scott: And if if you I'm gonna go back to something you you you you you touched on there, Lori.
7:52
Scott: And so so when I advise people to budget it, it's it's or or start thinking about the future, like what's happening, or what's gonna happen in the future, and start trying to think about it as as soon as I can.
8:03
Scott: You threw out a time frame of maybe I need to hire somebody in six months to a year.
8:10
Scott: In the ideal situation for you, when should leadership start thinking about when they need that IT role.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, it it varies, right?
8:23
SPEAKER_00: It varies if you have an immediate need.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: Say you decide to merge with a company.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you might need somebody there to help you merge those systems immediately.
8:33
SPEAKER_00: And that that conversation may come up, and it's it's unexpected, you know, it comes up and then you have to deal with it.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you have leeway because you're thinking ahead of year, you're doing your strategic plans, you're thinking about maybe entering a new market, or maybe you realize, hey, we really need to compete, we need some advanced analytics, we need to start automating some processes because we just don't we can't find the talent.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's a company here in Richmond, you know, for truck drivers.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: They haven't been able to find them.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: So what they've decided is we can't make any more truck drivers.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: We need to start thinking about automating every single process.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: So those truck drivers, when they show up, they are just delivering stuff.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: They're not sitting, you know, waiting in line to get the pick up their packages, you know, all these type of things that can take a you know, accelerate.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: They need to automate everything as much as they can to do that.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: That's usually going to take a little longer term to work that out.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, so there's no one right answer again, it just depends on what's going on.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: I would say you need your with your budget cycles to be thinking about that.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, but then sometimes it just pops up, or somebody could quit, and then you need somebody.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: You might say you already have an IT leader, or you have somebody internal and they quit, and that happens often.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: People they lose somebody, say they're not an executive level, maybe they're just the person that moved up from the desktop support.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: That person quits, um, and they realize hey, now's the time to upgrade this role.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: It's an immediate thing.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: They've got to hire this person, they got to figure out who's gonna do this.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: They can get a consultant to help bridge that gap.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: But maybe now is the time to upgrade that role from, say, a desktop support manager or IT director to a more strategic CIO, VP of IT, because they, you know, now they realize, hey, this is good.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: We can upgrade our talent, we can get somebody in here, maybe we can start working on some of these initiatives a lot sooner.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: And it kind of, you know, it kind of pushes that conversation forward.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: So I hope that helps.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: It's I know it wasn't an direct, um, but you really, you really do need to think through it in a lot of detail.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes companies will come to me and it's evident that they haven't thought it all the way through, you know, and that's the worst thing.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: And I'll say, hey, before we can start this, there's some things, you know, and I ask them a lot of questions.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: And if they can't really dig into that, I'm like, here's some things you need to go find out.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: Once you're ready and know the answers, then let's start this conversation again.
11:03
Scott: Okay.
11:04
Scott: And let's let's say in a situation where I've gone through that process.
11:10
Scott: I understand, or I think I understand that I need uh a CTO, and I'm probably gonna need this individual in you know, I think probably like nine months because of some some changes in the business.
11:23
Scott: When is a good time to bring you in for to start looking for that role?
11:30
SPEAKER_00: I think it's good if you already have an established relationship, is to start talking to some like me early on to make sure you've covered all that basis.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: And if you say you've already done that, I would say a couple months out.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: The process is going to take about it, typically takes around three months from start to finish.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: That is, from the time you start talking to me about what you need, we have to come up with compelling stories, we have to come up with good job descriptions, we have to work through all this, get the contract signed, all of that kind of stuff.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: Then we need to go out there and start the search process, which will typically take anywhere from two to four weeks.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: It just depends if it's national, if it's very specialized, it could take a little longer, depending.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you've got to do the interview process.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: And hopefully you're ready.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: I say you need to be ready to interview if you're gonna do this, because the worst thing is to start a search process and you're too busy to do these interviews quickly.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: Because then you're just gonna lose candidates, you're gonna frustrate it, it's gonna get out there in the market, you know, that that you know, you started this process, that it was a mess.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: So do that, and then you're gonna have to factor in that time from the time you make the offer.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: You've got to get usually background checks, drug tests, whatever it is you need to get done.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: That's usually a week to two weeks.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: And then you've got to get them on boarded, they've got to give you know their notice, those type of things.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: That's usually a a month at least from the time you make an offer until someone starts.
12:56
unknown: Okay.
12:58
Scott: So that that three months is is sounds like you know a good a good average, which you know, possibly maybe even longer.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: And again, all this I'm assuming the role, you know, the more time it's gonna take that to find that key person.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: But if it's somebody you think, and this is why you want to bring me in early, because if you bring me in nine months and you say we're thinking of this type of person, I'm able to then say, okay, I think, you know, they'll usually ask me, what's the market look like for this type of person?
13:28
SPEAKER_00: Can I get this local?
13:29
SPEAKER_00: Am I being reasonable?
13:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, we're starting to have that so that it's a lot easier when we get to this, and we already set expectations.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna take four months versus three months, maybe, because I've got to do a national search, and it's gonna, you know, they're gonna have to fly people in and they're gonna have to, you know, maybe they have to give longer notices when you're at the high-end executive level.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's one month in their contract, sometimes it's up to three months I've seen in contracts that you have to give notice.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: So those are all the conversations.
13:57
SPEAKER_00: So if you bring me in nine months early, we can have that, and then we can better kind of narrow that time frame of how long we think the search.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: The average is about three months.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
14:08
Scott: But as soon as possible.
14:09
Scott: Yes.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: Always as soon as possible.
14:13
Scott: Always as soon as possible.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: Because I only do retain searches, uh exclusive searches.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: And so you need to make sure that I'm not doing another one, and then I can give you all my time, and we can plan it that way.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: And then I can kind of move things around and make sure I'm not taking on speaking engagements or other type of marketing activities, you know, things, conferences that might take me out of pocket for a month or so.
14:38
Scott: Okay.
14:39
Scott: And the the difference between, say, you know, you mentioned for you it's a retained exclusive exclusive search.
14:47
Scott: What what what's so what are the other options?
14:50
Scott: Like, like what are the other situations that maybe a company could could look into rather than just a retained exclusive?
14:58
Scott: Or or and I guess what is the advantage of going maybe as well, the retained exclusive?
15:02
SPEAKER_00: Well, first of all, there's roles that where you wouldn't want to use this, right?
15:04
SPEAKER_00: So if you're just doing, first of all, if you're doing a contract role, an hourly role of any type, definitely you weren't work with the staffing agency that you know.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, if it's a lower level position, like a help desk or a QA or some type of, you probably you don't need a retained search.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: You could just use a contingency search from staffing firms where you know you have somebody go out there and you have a couple companies sending you candidates and they get paid if you know if you hire their person.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: Because it's not as strategic.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of people out there doing this type of work, the role's not gonna have, you know, the outcome of that role is not as big or you know, impactful.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: But when you get into hiring an executive person, I mean it really does add credibility to your search if you use a retained firm.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: Because what you don't want to do is send this out there to a whole bunch of firms, and then you have candidates.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: It's such a turn-off to a candidate when they keep getting called by you know four different firms.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: They go, Oh, wow, I've already been taught by three firms today.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: That shows what you think of this search because you really do want somebody that's trained in executive search that does this all day.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: That's that's all I do is talk to executives and high, you know, say architect level, very senior specific technical people.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: I don't, I I turn down searches that are that are lower level because I really am not that good at it.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: There's gonna be people that are way better.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: Technology is so broad, we've got to be experts in what we do, and you know, we got to keep those candidate profile, you know, candidates pipelined.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, we can only understand so many roles at one time.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: And so um, that's what I would say that adds credibility.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: We're also gonna be able to do so.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: For me, I'm the person you're gonna talk to.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna lead the search the whole way.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: If you're going to contingency or some of these other firms, usually you're gonna have an account manager, they're gonna talk to you about your requirements, and then they're gonna hand it off to recruiters to do the work.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: And those recruiters, they range.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, some of them can be very good and effective, but you just never know.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: So um, I would say that's an advantage to doing executive search.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna be able to help you build job descriptions, you know, really do more advisory in addition to just leading that search.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: Okay, good.
17:24
Scott: Um help me understand the differences, and maybe there isn't one, but help me understand the differences between finding my first technology leader versus replacing one.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think your first one, um, if you're replacing someone, you clearly already have some established processes, you have some technology, you know, you're used to working with somebody.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: So either they did a really good job and you felt like, wow, this is the exact person we need.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: And so you kind of have an idea of that, what that persona looks like of the person.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: There's an advantage there, or they didn't do a good job at all.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: And you're like, I know this isn't working, let's try to change this, let's look for somebody new.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: But you have some type of comparison, you know, to start off from.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: A lot of times when you're doing your first hire and you've never had anyone, so um, it takes a little bit longer to figure out what you need, and you're typically gonna need to use some type of advisory service to help you.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: Like I said, a fractional CTO or a consulting firm, somebody that's gonna help you uncover what that true what you truly need.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: Right.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: Again, unless you have somebody that's has a tech background on your executive team or on your board, you're gonna need that type of person to help you walk through it.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: And then you know, sometimes it may take a little bit longer because you want to see more candidates.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: Again, you have no experience with this.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: Um so I may not have answered all of that.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: There may be there's probably more to consider there, but I would think that's a big thing, is that you just don't have a starting point.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: Whereas you do you're replacing something, and usually candidates are gonna ask you that's the first thing most good candidates ask.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: Is this a replacement or is this a new position?
19:21
SPEAKER_00: And they're gonna want to know tell me why that other person didn't work out, tell me about why that person left, because they're trying to understand the culture and what you know the expectations are, versus if it's new, they're gonna ask different types of questions that are, you know, hopefully that are more strategic to make sure you've thought through everything and that you're really ready and that you have a budget to hire or budget to bring on whatever you're hiring them to do.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, good question.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: Just stop a little bit.
19:50
Scott: Ah, good.
19:51
Scott: I like to do that every now and then, right?
19:53
Scott: Yeah.
19:55
Scott: Um, so what is the what is the silly story that a business owners tell themselves to avoid using um someone in your role, to avoid using you?
20:09
Scott: In other words, and we all do this, Lori, at least I know I do it.
20:13
Scott: We make excuses for not doing something, right?
20:16
Scott: Not taking that first step, not doing something.
20:19
Scott: So what are some of the the stories that if I'm a business owner or or part of leadership, and I'm like, you know, I feel like I kind of need a tech leader, but maybe I can do this myself.
20:31
Scott: But well, what are some of those those silly stories that I'm I'm fooling myself with for not using you?
20:39
SPEAKER_00: Well, those are those are a little different questions.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: So for not using me, a silly story is hey, I can just post a job ad and hire this person myself, right?
20:49
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of candidates on the market right now.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: I'll just post this job.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna find me, you know, that's all I need to do.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: So that's something when they're trying to consider whether they need to hire and pay this extra premium to use, you know, my service.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, the other question it sounds like you're asking is they're trying to do without hiring somebody and they're trying to figure out do I really need a tech leader or not?
21:13
SPEAKER_00: That's a different, that's a different fair enough.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: I don't know that silly story, except that we're gonna keep doing things the same way and hoping for the same res, you know, different results.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's silly.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: We all know, and we all you and I know when we're postponing things.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: There's so many things, like you and I talked about us for our business doing marketing videos and getting them out there, and you're like, oh, but I'm so busy.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: A lot of it is I'm just so busy, I'll get to it.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: I know I need to do this, I don't have time to interview people right now.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's usually it, or you know, they don't want to spend the money.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: And I think we all know the story, you know, it takes money, you gotta spend money to make money sometimes, and you gotta keep remembering that.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: Like, yes, it's hard to part with that, but just think about.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: And this isn't what I do in my business.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: And like, hey, if I get one sell, if I get one extra hire or one extra client, it'll pay for this.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: You know, I break it down in chunks.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, that's easy.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: All I have to do is get one extra, it justifies this cost.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: But if I don't do it, you know, you got to consider what those ramifications, and you got to consider your competitors right now, because if you're not doing it, and they are, that's scary right now.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: Right.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: They're gonna really catapult themselves.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if they if they really start to invest in tech in a big way.
22:38
Scott: So we we've talked about the the time of how long or when when I should start thinking about this.
22:45
Scott: Um you know the duration, you know, let's say on average three months to high the hiring process, obviously it's gonna take more to get, you know, hopefully get you in more before that.
22:56
Scott: For and I know this is gonna kind of vary, but what are if I want to bring in uh you know a C level technology leader in my organization, and I'm a small, let's say I'm in a you know uh$30 to$100 million in revenue, could do you want to share like what is the the average cost of that leader that that that people should be thinking about that they need to be spending?
23:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that definitely depends too, um, like you said, on the technology profile of the person you need.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: So if it's somebody that's going to build out a technology platform for your company that's critical to your business, and then they're gonna put advanced analytics and you know, that's gonna run your business, and that's gonna cost a lot more than somebody that might come in that's not gonna, you know, that where it's not nearly as critical.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: You know, where they just maybe need to implement some new software as a service and maybe move you to the cloud and some regular type projects.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I would say anywhere, this is where I think uh companies usually underestimate the cost of IT, uh bringing out an IT leader.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, and it varies depending on where where it is.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: If they're having to be on site five days a week now, that's a big deal.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: People will work for less if they can work remotely a lot of times.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: It depends on how many hours they're gonna have to work, all of those type of things, right?
24:25
SPEAKER_00: But I would say a general is that it's hard to bring on a strategic IT leader for anything under$200,000 right now.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: That's in base salary, right?
24:34
SPEAKER_00: And it goes dramatically up if you have to have very specialized skill sets.
24:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, it could go anywhere, you know, to$350,000 base.
24:42
SPEAKER_00: It really does depend.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: And then in addition to the base salary, you're gonna be thinking about at least short-term incentives, yearly bonuses.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: I mean, even directors, most directors average 20%, up to you know, 30, 35% of an annual bonus.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: It could be even higher.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: And then the bigger the company, the more strategic.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, there could be factored in with some type of, if it's a startup or private equity, they may want equity, you know, some type of options and stock, and or another type of long-term incentive, which is just cash payout, you know, for staying three years and meeting certain goals.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: That's usually up to 50%, you know, of the good salary, could be 100%.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: I've seen 100%.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, so you need to think about all of that and in addition to the benefits.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: And then the other thing that people don't think about, if you're hiring this person to come in and strategically do whatever, have you thought about the cost of the tools you want to buy?
25:39
SPEAKER_00: Because if you're saying I'm gonna go to advance, you know, I'm gonna bring in this new ERP system or I I'm gonna start doing, you know, move to the cloud, have you really thought about all those costs it's gonna take to do that?
25:51
SPEAKER_00: Because if if you haven't, and then you bring this person in, and then they tell you, okay, here's what we need, you know, you haven't thought about that, that's gonna be very frustrating.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna want to move forward.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: You don't have a budget for the tools, you don't have a budget for the consulting firm or to hire the people to implement it, because this strategic person is not gonna be the implementer, right?
26:11
SPEAKER_00: They're not gonna be the ones that are mentioned for you.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: There's gonna be all these costs associated with that.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: And if you know, and you don't have to have it day one, clearly that person's gonna come in to usually assess the thing and go out there and find the partners and figure out what the right product is.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you need to have thought about what look at.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: You can go to Gartner, you can go to different places and ask, find out what is it gonna cost to implement this type of ERP system or this type of data analytics.
26:39
SPEAKER_02: Have some problems like that.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: Because if you hire that strategic leader, you're not ready to go, you're not able to hire people, they're gonna be frustrated, they're gonna leave.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be a lot of wasted money on you know and time on both of your parts.
26:52
Scott: That that's an excellent point, Lori.
26:54
Scott: And I I think a lot of people don't, they just assume if I hire this person, then everything else comes along with it, right?
27:00
Scott: And that's obviously not the way it works in the real world.
27:03
Scott: Right.
27:05
Scott: So, Lori, I I like to wrap up with with the shows with one to three media takeaways that our listeners couldn't literally, you know, if they're listening to this, they want to hire a tech leader.
27:17
Scott: As soon as they turn this podcast off, um they can immediately act on.
27:23
Scott: And it it's it's fine if you've already, it's something that you know you kind of recap, you've already mentioned, but what would be one to three media takeaways that somebody could walk away and and take and take action, whether it's to find that tech leader or maybe to find that recruiter to find that tech?
27:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think they need to figure out why they're hiring.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: Like why do you need this person?
27:47
SPEAKER_00: What's going on in my business?
27:48
SPEAKER_00: Do that assessment and figure out the type of person they need.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: And that may be through consultants, that may be, you know, bringing in a fractional person or a consultant, whatever.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: So figure that out, and then from there, you need to figure out the budget of what it's gonna cost and really look at it deeply.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: I think those are two critical things.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: If you have that, along with how this person, what what are they gonna be doing?
28:15
SPEAKER_00: I always want to know a compelling story.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: So the one of the first things I ask after I'm talking to somebody that's telling me this is the type of person, I'm like, tell me why somebody should leave their full-time job where they love they probably like it, to come work for you.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: And if you do not, if you do not have a clearly articulated reason, then you're not ready.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna get that person if you can't, because I'm not able to tell that story, right?
28:42
SPEAKER_00: If if you don't believe it and you can't, and that I know that's that that's so that's what I'd say.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: Those three things figure out the type of person, what that budget is, and why should this person want to be coming to work for you?
28:54
Scott: Correct.
28:55
Scott: And and I love that story part because if you don't have that compelling story and you do find somebody, it's probably not something that you're gonna end up being happy with.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: Because if it's the good candidate, those discerning, you want them to be discerning, you want them to be asking you all kinds of questions.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: If candidates are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, and I ask them why are they looking for work?
29:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, I need a job.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: You don't want that candidate.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: That's not the you want the person that I really have to, I have to be able to have all the information, answer a lot of questions before they'll even agree to get on the phone with me.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: And this is usually candidates I know very well.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: You know, they're like, tell me about this.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: I have to be able to paint that picture to get them to even pick up the phone because again, most of them are fairly happy.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: And right now, especially right now, if you're looking, people are worried about stability.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: And so for them to leave their job, even though they might like this, they're gonna they're gonna want to know all the details.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna have to be pretty compelling.
29:52
Scott: Absolutely.
29:53
Scott: Well, thank you for those those three uh takeaways.
29:56
Scott: And I like I always I like to uh I personally enjoy a good podcast or a book recommendation.
30:03
Scott: So do you have anything for us?
30:04
Scott: Doesn't have to be business, just anything in general.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I admit I have not been listening to a lot of podcasts lately, although I do I was listening to them constantly for a while during COVID.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: Some of my favorite things to listen to is like Brene Brown, it's very uplifting, and or Oprah Super Soul.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: Those are nothing, I mean it can be with business, but it's just stuff, feel good stuff for me.
30:28
Scott: Okay, great.
30:30
Scott: Well, this has been great, Lori.
30:32
Scott: Um just you know, for those uh where can people find out more about you online?
30:37
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's Lori Jennings, L-O-R-I, Jennings.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: You can find me on LinkedIn, and then I have a website, JenningsProSearch.com.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of new testimonial videos that I did that are all up there.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, if you want to know and hear from my clients, and you know, my contact information is on there.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: But I think LinkedIn is probably the best way to start.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: And then if you get to my LinkedIn profile, you'll have my contact information.
31:01
Scott: Perfect.
31:03
Scott: Thanks, and thank you for joining me today, Lori.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for inviting me, Scott.
31:08
Scott: All right, folks, that's it for today.
31:11
Scott: I'm Scott Keller, and I hope you can join me next time for budget your business.