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Beyond Words - Samantha Sida · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, fresh from joining the Powerhouse World Literacy Summit at Oxford in the UK, featuring speakers and guests from over 85 countries and hundreds of literacy advocates, we are joined by Sam Cedar, who first attended the World Literacy Summit in Oxford in 2014.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Her passion grew out of her concern for illiteracy and the lifelong impact on young people, especially if they become an adult and are unable to read and write.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Samantha recognised digital was fast moving and changing the world, and particularly young people and their attention span to sit down and read a book was often a challenge.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: These issues have sparked a journey for her to understand more and dig deeper.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: A successful entrepreneur, she also is a co-founder of a global digital media company called Limited Space, which is based in the UK.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: She is passionate, using her business skills and connections to make a real difference both here and around the world.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: In 2022, she joined the board of World Literacy Foundation.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: The initiative brought together business leaders from around the world to offer their brain power, skills, and resources to help eradicate illiteracy in 50 cities by 2030.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: So rather than just giving money, these businesses' leaders work together to provide their expertise.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome Samantha from the UK.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, thank you.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, as we just um confirmed, we're we're good.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Neither of us have good short end of the stick.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: We're both good.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: You're 9am, I'm 6 p.m.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's all good.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like we can talk now, very both not exhausted-ish.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's not at least it's not 5 a.m.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: or I've done some, I'm sure you've done the same.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: We've done some very early podcast calls.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: So you've just come back from the Incredible World Literacy Summit in the UK in at Oxford, um, which is very exciting.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Can you just give me a little snip snapshot of some of the highlights?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there were so many, and I know there were so many because I was involved, but I would love to hear just a few little excerpts or snapshots from you about things that you really found inspiring.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think just first of all, I think it's it's such a magical event, just you know, just looking around and just seeing, you know, I think there was in in person, I think that there was about 500 people who attended, and then obviously it was streamed online.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was like a further 2,000 um connections uh across the globe.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think just that in itself, like all of these minds coming together and from all over the world, all different walks of life, all different stories for reasons for being there.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I just found that just very magical and inspiring that all these people have come together because we all unite and agree that everyone in the world has the right to read and write.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just so it's so basic, but it just isn't happening.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so it's it's very inspiring that this many people come together, and obviously there's many, many more.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I would have thought most of the world would agree that everyone has that basic right.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I think first off, yeah, that was a sort of a highlight just to have so many people in the room or rooms, yeah.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then for I think it actually, from what I'm I um I understand, it was more like the 40,000 people could tune in across the globe, yeah, even though you had sort of all these like it just extraordinary scope of the summit was pretty impressive.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: And and just the different speakers.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you just I mean, I just you know sat there in the Sheldonian theatre and just listening to, you know, just just all these different speakers and just things like you know, some highlights for me, which I found really interesting, like things like basic basic things like math, like teaching math.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: There was a professor from Alabama, and he literally taught the audience algebra in the simplest form by connecting it to Lego.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it just kind of like resonated that quality teaching, like when you get teaching right, actually, you can you can engage with your audience or engage with your pupils and get them motivated and actually simplify it.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, that was a testament of like quality of teaching, especially with algebra, because often algebra feels daunting.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a really good example of how it doesn't have to be sort of rocket science to be able to just educate, and that's a really good point that you raise.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds, and I, you know, I've heard so many of these stories about how we are educating differently, and I think that's important to also highlight.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, absolutely absolutely.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I just you know, I found his presentation just incredible.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: There was um there was a neurologist um and professor from Harvard University, and what was fascinating, she was kind of like presenting really the mechanics of the brain and like you know, early learning, like how you know things just those early years really ingrain, you know, how you're gonna learn through life.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's pivotal, you know.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: We can, I mean, she made specific references to dyslexia, and actually you can um diagnose a child who is dyslexic very early on, and that's really what we should do because if we can do it earlier on, we can help, you know, more quickly.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but she also touched on, I remember one of her comments about there's a part in your brain that she calls it the letterbox, and it's all it's always there.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, and it basically is what she was suggesting is but you can teach an old dog new tricks, like they were not her word.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: That that that's my words, but that was my the way I kind of like translated it.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like whatever age you are in life, you can learn, and and what she was doing is you know, kind of um, you know, sharing the biology behind it, which was just fascinating.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: So um what I found was you know, you had such a wide variety of speakers, all bringing something very kind of interesting and powerful that can assist uh, you know, with fighting this issue of illiteracy and you know, and suggesting more efficient potential approaches to education and learning.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what was really fascinating.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's almost it almost feels like you know, we went to the summit and actually there was such a wide variety of solutions that we could tap into.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and if we just start to continue that dialogue, we really are going to be able to, you know, to create new solutions to illiteracy and learning, and you know, and hopefully we can um put that in place.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we're hoping, you know, what we're doing with the task force is you know, we want to take um, you know, we're using a sample size of 50 cities across the globe because we know if we say, well, we're going to, you know, ensure that every single person in the world who's illiterate isn't illiterate by 2030, the task is too big.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: So what we're trying to do is create a methodology and a sustainable.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Make it more palatable, yeah, and and and make it so that it's compact enough to address.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's still a big task.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just for our listeners to clarify, do you want to just talk briefly about what that mission is and and and what the task force role is, of which you I know are very involved.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um so obviously on the macro level, uh, with regards to just you know, with education and uh literacy and you know, functional literacy, um, we know that there's nearly 800 million people in the world, uh, I think it's like 796 million to be exact, yeah, who cannot read a single word.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's absolute illiterate.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Then to add on to that, you know, you've got up to another potentially two billion people that struggle, and that can be there's there's kind of like there's poor literacy and then there's functional illiteracy.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um here in the UK, I mean it just amazes me that there's 22% of people in the UK who are functional illiterate, which it's just such a monolithic amount.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: And and you and you you think, well, but what does that mean?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: So so 22% are functionally illiterate.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what you just said?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: You you got it.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it's 22% of the the the UK's population uh is functional literate.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you're looking at you know nearly 15 million people, which is crazy.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And when you apply that, when you apply that, what does that mean?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: That means that they've got very, very basic reading skills, basic basic reading and writing skills, but they can't apply it.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: So struggle with filling in a job application form, struggle to read a medicine label or a food label, um, struggle they wouldn't be able to, you know, read a book to their child, you know, just basic skills, skills that allow you to take part in society.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: And these people are being held back.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously, there are, you know, it's a say in the UK, obviously, you know, a very kind of you know, you know, a developed world.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: One, it shouldn't exist because of the resource we have here, so it's just amazing.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think, and what we need to do is, you know, there's a huge percentage that are adult functional illiterate.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's some, you know, some great examples.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm, you know, really hoping to delve further because I think there's some absolutely amazing like role models here.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you have Jay, I think Jay Blades from um the repair shop.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I I read in an article recently that he was working with an adult literacy um program to learn to read uh in his adult life.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and he's like a just a shining example of you know someone showing kind of like the benefits and power of being able to learn, and you're never too old, you really are never too old to learn.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: So is this he's obviously somebody high profile in the UK?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: In the UK, yeah.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And he shares his story, and it's not, and I think that's that's wonderful because I think you know, if I think people would shy away, um, you know, uh and potentially feel ashamed.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Feel embarrassed or ashamed.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that's yeah, I mean I think it's interesting too.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think the a very important point that you've raised is that you know, when I speak to people about illiteracy and the and the issue, they go, Oh yeah, but that's in underdeveloped countries.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Well, actually no, because what you've just highlighted, and I know in the US it's a huge issue, and I think that is something that we need to change that that perspective or that perception because it's not just in underdeveloped countries, it's it's everywhere.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I think that's why, and and so it's sort of like this hidden issue, which as you say, uh many people are ashamed to admit.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it could completely.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I mean I know you know from from you know, from school, sometimes you know if you didn't know something or you felt embarrassed, or you just you know, oh I'm not good enough, or I'm you know, and it's just we we we shouldn't.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: We you know, we should make it, you know, kind of like we should make it acceptable, and we no one should feel ashamed to be able to talk about you know things that they struggle with, and we should help one another, and that's really what human nature should be about, is you know, we should be, you know, if you should that's what we should be doing, we shouldn't be making one another feel um you know ashamed about not being able to do something because we've all got strengths, and I think that's the key factor.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: We all have strengths, and I know within my business it's something that you know, myself, my husband, my co-founder, um that you know, that we embrace within our team, and it's like every single person in our business has a strength, and they're not necessarily the same, but that's the beauty because when you bring them all, when you bring all those strengths together, that's when you create something pretty special, and I think we that's what we need to do.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: We need to ever, you know, we should like help one another to recognise what your strengths are.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're not all brilliant at mass, we're not all brilliant English, actually, might not even be that interesting subject, but we could be creative, you know.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I just think it's like celebrating our strengths, and and that's what we should do, you know, for one another and lift each other up and do what we can.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I do I just find it fascinating statistically here in the UK and developed nations worldwide, you know, Australia, the state we we all have the same, we all have the same issues, these exist.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think like reverting back to your question with regards to the task force, like like what does this mean?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: So we know that I think for the task force, our goal is aligning it with the United Nations sustainability goals.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: So 17 sustainability goals, one of which is to ensure that everyone has a right to an education that illiteracy doesn't exist by 2030.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Big task, big ambition, completely up for the challenge because you've got to you've got to aim high.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Even if we don't hit that, we're gonna come blim and close.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: We make it too realistic goal, we still might not even get there.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always in, you know, aim aim high.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I agree, yeah.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we know as a task force to be able to look at this in its entirety is going to be too big.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: So what we what we wanted to do, and this was kind of like the the programme was spearhead by Andy Kay, the CEO and founder of the foundation, um, and which is uh you know led by um like my colleague who I'm working with, uh Joseph, um who is kind of like you know, leading the task force, and then there are three others who kind of like joined as the founding members, and then we have uh multinationals that have come on board also as founding members, which is just wonderful.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: What the idea is we incubate this, so we we've gone like let's look at 12 to 19 years, because 12 to 19 years, they're going to be entering into adult life.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: We really need to make sure they've got a really good start.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: So why not?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just make sure that this age group, when they go into adult, you know, they enter in into the their world as an as an adult, that they can read and write, that they've got these basics.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Basic equipped, yeah.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: They just need to be equipped.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: So we're incubating that.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's the age group.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Then we need to go, right?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: We need to apply this to the world.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we've gone right 50 cities.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's 50 cities globally, and it's going to be all different, you know, it's going to be from you know, the poorest nations to the richest nations because the issue does lie everywhere.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: How we're approaching our methodology is we know that it's going to be an exponential um approach.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like we know the first two years of the project are going to be the slowest years because we're just like, you know, putting all our chess pieces um in place.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: In a row.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Then once we've got the proven methodology and we've done a few, like, you know, proof of concepts, then we'll be able to roll it out more quickly.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: But the first two years are kind of really about incubating the project and bringing our partners on board.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, today, um, you know, we're successfully, you know, in the in the US, um, there's 10 cities that are being selected.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's some incredible uh partners that have come on board.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not sure if I'm allowed to disclose them just yet.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but huge names, huge names.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and they just they joined the meeting at the start, and you know, just absolute credit and thanks to them, because this is this, you know, they came to a meeting, it was an idea and it's a mission statement, and we kind of gave an outline of what we're doing, but we were saying, but we need your help to make this even more real.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a huge leap of faith, and that was also which was really magical about the summit, because many, many of us all came together, and it was just that energy, you know, like you know, we're everyone's really energetic about the project, and you know, we really want to get it down and it's a very um impressive project, and actually, that's what I'm hearing when I'm interviewing on the podcast, the enthusiasm and also the uniting, as you say, everyone's bringing different things to the table.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this task force, which I know you you know, you presented at the UN trying to get some sort of traction.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit about that, because I know that that takes a little navigating.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and was that how was that in September?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: And what was the sort of I suppose the challenge, but also you're going, I think you're going back, well, yeah, the plan is to go back at this year, yeah?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: And to yeah.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: So we're so annually an annual meeting in New York, and that would all that always aligns um like with the general uh UN General Assembly, because it's aligned goals.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we want to prove our concept and then then then present this.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: The I ideally what we want this, what we want to happen is for uh for the method to be uh adopted by other countries and potentially with governments, etc.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, so it's an annual and then uh and then we will always meet kind of like halfway through the year, um, and that will rotate around the different members.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously this year the the last meeting was when we were all in Oxford.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: So there's like basically two meetings, face-to-face meetings a year, and then everything else is done on um, you know, on Zoom.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a brilliant concept, but also it's just I think it's one of those.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: I can't actually believe that people haven't got on board with this before, because to me, it's such a monolithic issue, and it affects such a diverse range of people.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: For you, I know that you work in the education, but also the digital space, you're quite progressive.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit about your business, limited space, and and because obviously you have entrepreneurial and business skills, but also a passion for dealing with the illiteracy issue.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: How do these align for you?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: And what sort of uh resources can you access that can help in this space?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so I got involved with the foundation in 2014.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um and this actually um was as a result of my business limited space.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: So uh myself and husband, we co-founded the company 22 years ago.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my background was in newspapers, uh, and we we basically journalist?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Are you a journalist?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was um I was we created research programs.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually started out in community newspapers and loved it.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: I trained out.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't train to stockbroker, and then I joined, yeah, my my father passed away, and I just needed some time out.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I I joined a community newspaper and I developed my own publication and I loved every minute of it.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and then I was headhunted.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Publishing.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so much fun.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness, just the creativity, yeah, yeah.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: I also, yeah, publishing's my background too.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's the I so hear you and I can see your eyes light up when you talk about it.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's very so that so that gave you that sort of, I suppose it does give you that essence of community and storytelling, but so I was so I then um I was headhunted and joined Youth International, and I actually went into the agency sales side of the business, so working with all the big brands with the publication with broadsheet and tabloid um publications.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: And from there, I then got involved in the research department.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: I was fascinated.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: We were really trying to understand just what our readers, you know, reader behaviors.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: And what one of the studies that we did was um um we created a methodology to quantify a value on time spent reading.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And in a nutshell, I took that methodology and applied it to our own business, limited space, um, which is outdoor advertising.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like billboards.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: What we focus on is advertising in shopping malls.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: So we're a national business, we've, you know, we've kind of, you know, typical entrepreneurial story, like risk everything for what you believe in.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we yeah, we have a multitude of products of advertising products in in shopping malls all over the UK.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: In 2014 is when I mean we'd been within the digital space for a couple of years at that point, but at 2014 it was becoming a lot more aggressive.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And even like now, as as we are, you know, our business is you know 60% digital.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's a massive like rollout plan over the next two and a half years where um you know we're gonna have a lot of digital screens uh in the ground, and you know, and digital just creates just you know, just so many other options and flexibilities, um, and just you know, different ways that you can can communicate and engage with consumers.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: But at that point of 2014, and you're having children and being around kind of like other parents, you know, mothers that and fathers that you know concerned about digital and their children, and that could be from their phone, from seeing digital screens, you know, outside of their home, uh, to gaming.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Real concern for a lot of parents.
• 21:19
  unknown: Yes.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do I stop it?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, do I tell them no, you're not allowed to, you know, all of those things.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sitting you know, I'm kind of like sitting there listening to these concerns and thinking, well, I I've got a conscience because like we have a media company and we're we have digital screens and we're putting more digital screens and we want people to look at our digital screens.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we do.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a responsibility, a moral responsibility, and actually it's like you know, a personal responsibility to find out the effects.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is digital good?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and also how much is too much digital, and actually, in how much is not enough?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the biggest.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that was my motivation.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was I was concerned with the effects of digital communication.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to find out the effects of it for, in particular, for children.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I came across the World Liberty Foundation.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: And there was actually an advert in the evening standard.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and it was at the first summit at Oxford, and I was just fascinated.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like talking about you, yeah, just sharing some crazy stats about the UK in particular.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh my word.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just, you know, this there is a problem.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: I want to go and find out about this.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: So my quest was understand the effects of digital as a responsibility as a parent and a media owner.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then how can we use it for good?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's that's how I got involved, and that's where the two marry up.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, my takeout.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's your breach.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: So your your takeouts are my takeout digital, digital is not going anywhere.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think we all know that.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously, I was about to say the horse is bolted there, like it's it's it's here to stay.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, digital is here to stay.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's just what you're weighing up and and exploring is how can it be used for good and how can it be managed effectively.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm assuming that I mean there's a lot of benefits.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the people I've interviewed on this podcast have a strong digital role or they have they have great digital resources that make reading and literary opportunities accessible, you know, because you can actually, you know, so I'm assuming that's sort of the bridge that you also have yeah, realized is a connector.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's exactly it.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: And and then and but then also kind of you know, stress testing that because and this is also, you know, again, like wearing my like my business hat, you know, and and actually if by if I have some like real life examples, if we look at you know what happened with COVID, and I think that you know, there's a real test there as well on like just evolution of humans with digital, and it's like we like humans, humans want to be around humans, like digital has its place, but it's not taking over.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: And this is what these takeouts can be applied to education.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: It you cannot learn just through digital mediums, there has to be a physical connection that there must be.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um that learning may maybe you know, in the future, maybe in the future when we all become, you know, we're all aliens and don't have a gender and everything else.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: What's the difference when that's happening?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I take your point.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's interesting what you say because some of these people, obviously, that I speak to, I can see amazing work they're doing with digital animation, for example, that that acts that sort of gives access to some of these people that would otherwise find learning and reading challenging.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: But what you're pointing out, which I also resonate, is that we have to monitor, manage, and contain it and ensure that there's a strong human element as part of that story and part of that teaching.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I I I yeah, I wholeheartedly feel particularly just you know, for the moment, absolutely.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: As I said, maybe in the future that you know that's gonna change, but at the moment, absolutely.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you're gonna get you know more success stories for in in context to learning um by having that blended mix.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's right.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's a blend, it's a hybrid, it's it's a hybrid of resources, and it's and also you coming from obviously having strong digital expertise and having a company that that fosters that I think it's also um very pertinent that you're reflecting on that, and obviously, you know, with your own children and people speaking to parents, that you think that people learn much better when there's a connection that's human and there's a story that's human.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose it's the question is how you how we make sure that we manage that without digital taking over, but also becoming a resource that we can all use or that we can teach with because it's happening, you know?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so for you, what do you see as the greatest challenge moving forward?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because the task for the task force is huge, but it's also exciting that it's on the agenda and that you're getting great support.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel that there is traction and that I mean, obviously, the summit is a wonderful portal for that traction?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see traction elsewhere?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Do you I mean, do you think it's something like even with this podcast?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting a lot of feedback and a lot of traction because people are like, What?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize it was such a big problem.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people who would otherwise not know about it, you know, because if you're not in the space, you don't know about it, which is why this is such a great platform to to highlight things like what you're doing.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um what do you think is the biggest challenge moving forward?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Probably many.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Probably the the biggest challenge, I think it's all gonna it's all in stages, and I think it's like I mean, the way I the way I I I don't really see the necessarily the biggest challenges.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just about being organized and having a plan because it's like you know, if you fail to plan, you plan to fail kind of thing.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: So um I think I I'm so obviously with our business, you know, we we have to go, we we we have to we've brought a plan for the next four years, a better clear plan, you know, we've brought a plan past that, we've got a very clear plan, and obviously, you know, the next two years are very specific, and then we have an outline past those two years of where of where we're going.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's using kind of that those business skills and applying it to the methodology, and that's where you know I feel like I can assist, you know, with with our with our project, is that I just think you know, we if we we've if we've got a map, if we've got a map, and if we're realistic to uh you know, things like the challenges, which you you you know, which you're saying, then you know it's it's all absolutely doable.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say in answer to your question with regards to the I think the biggest the biggest challenge, but you know, at the start was always going to be how do we physically get this off the ground?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that's right.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I would have thought, yeah.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that was the biggest one because it's like that the the mission statement, the objective is crystal clear, but how are we gonna do it?
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because every single, well, for the states, everything every single state has a different issue and it needs its own tailored approach.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, every country is different as its different problem and needs a different approach.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Every continent, you know, we've got language differences, we've got cultural differences, there's so many different variables that we have to embrace.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: It is not a one size fits all.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I think our biggest challenge or the most overwhelming challenge was so how do we how do we start this?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: What's going to be the approach?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's just been a lot of faith in one another.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, and just being calm about it, not looking at the not looking at the the whole thing as in we've got to get this all done overnight because we're not going to.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: We've got to break it down into bite-sized, we've got to break it down into what's realistic.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: We need to be realistic with our time as well, because everyone, you know, has full-time jobs, careers.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so, you know, you're you're you're you're donating your time and you're doing that in your own, you know, if you have your own time, you're you're kind of you're that's what you're that's what you're doing.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it it's kind of just being realistic with your with your diaries and realistic with your expectations, um, and just breaking it down to bite-sized chunks.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, yeah, the biggest challenge definitely was that starting point.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I think as you know, we've got a roadmap, we've got an outline of what we're doing, it's going to be exponential.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: We, we, we achieve, you know, one part of the chapter, then the second chapter is going to be a little bit easier and it will go on like that, and then it'll get quicker and quicker.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a really valid point.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: I also think it's just the logistics, you know, getting into the areas, I would imagine, that you're trying to target to ensure that what it's like anything.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like if there's a hurricane, you want to make sure that you get the food to the right spot to ensure that the people are getting what they need.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that's sort of probably not a dissimilar, you've got a crisis of people not being able to read and write.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: So getting to the people that need that is probably also the most paramount mission, I suppose, is to ensure that it's getting to the right people in the right way.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's probably quite working out the motivations, you know, working out who who is our audience, you know, who who exactly, yeah, yeah.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: What motivates them.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because that's this no, you know, trying to get someone to do something they don't want to do, I mean, it's just I mean, that's just a hard task.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: So we need to, our methodology, you know, has to be, our approach has to be bespoke, you know, by city or by school that we're working with, you know, and we and and by individual, you know, what motivates you?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because if we can find the common theme, what motivates you, then that's your bridge, that's your link to kind of you know get through and have success.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, if if you you know, if you're laboring something to someone and they're completely disinterested, well, it's just a waste of time.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where we want to be different with our approach to learning, is we really want to be considered, considered about the individual.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: And if we can create programs, you know, that that work and are more tailored to the individual needs, but in the most efficient way, then we're gonna we're gonna win because it isn't a one-size-fits-all.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: I actually agree with you, and I think it's wonderful work, and I'm so thrilled to be involved with the foundation and to learn from all of the extraordinary people like yourself doing wonderful work and really trying to build the bridge, you know, across the literacy space.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I call it like a literacy revolution because that's how I see it.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a very I think you know, people need to realize it's on a massive scale and it's across the board and it's developed and undeveloped countries, and I think that's where you're shining the light on this very important issue.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, you were just saying also um there's some interesting projects that you're wanting to highlight.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me what you were.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: That was interesting.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we're looking at just you know, different initiatives to um kind of, you know, with our cause on improving literacy um levels um here in the UK.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: And um one of them is just you know the basics of just read just reading in general, um, have a small, you know, or however much time you want to spend reading.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: But one of the things, one of the campaign that we're working on at the moment is bringing um story time into shopping malls.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, obviously, you know, this is the space that I that I work in and my business works in.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, that's huge demographics, massive audiences, big demographics, yeah.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Take out just to do a story, you know, a story time kind of like once a day and encouraging reading and having those stats around you know what reading can do like for you.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one of the things that we're looking at with with the task force.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we're actually I can't announce details yet, but we have a sponsor that's going to come on to do that, which is absolutely wonderful.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we've got uh, you know, kind of like a few um uh kind of like awareness campaigns that we're working on as well.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: Again, you mentioned earlier on just about you know raising awareness to this issue because I I was exactly that.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: In in 2014, I just presumed that the whole of the UK can read and write.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Of course they can.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, you know, yeah, actually, you're so ignorant.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I and I and it's it wasn't that I was being like ignorant in a rude way, it was just I just didn't know.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think creating awareness, um, and then we can build on that in context to like the global picture.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, what does this what does a literacy look like or functional literacy look like by country?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we can just share more of these real life statistics, what is really happening, um, to like resonate, what the problem is, and then we can get quicker with our solutions.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: I totally agree, and and actually hearing your story and what you've imparted on the podcast this this particular week has been really enlightening.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, thank you for your time and your energy, and I look forward to seeing you um for next meeting.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome, thank you, Deborah.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Take care, thank you.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, at the World Literacy Foundation, we believe in literacy is the foundation of lifelong learning and education.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: People who cannot read or write experience difficulties with simple everyday tasks, such as reading the label of a medicine board, filling out job application, or understanding traffic styles.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we have someone to access the choice, right?