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Transformational Leadership with BlackWolf Consultants · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
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  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:36
  Hi, Rodna.
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  It's Roxanne Derhodge of authentic living with Roxanne.
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  Thanks again for tuning in this week.
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  This week, I have 2 special guests, Gevo Krenza and Robert Krenza.
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  And they book owned Black Wolf Consultants Inc.
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  And met, I should say guys or men, thank you for coming on today and, sharing the time with
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  us.
• 0:58
  Absolutely.
• 0:59
  Yeah.
• 1:00
  Thank you for having us.
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  So I often say, you know, we're all talking about transformational leadership, but I I
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  think it's something that, even more so there's need to discuss transformational really,
• 1:15
  leadership in this time, now, well before the last, bit that we've been through, but even
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  more so, I'm thinking that individually, collectively, as a person or just, whether
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  you're a CEO or the person, at the front of a company, everybody's looking for transformation
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  and have for a while, but now it's come to bear that we're we're needing it.
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  It's not a nice to have anymore, but we all need it.
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  So let's talk a little bit about, you know, your company and, kind of kind of what was the
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  beginning point when, you decided that, starting this company was something that you
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  wanted to do.
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  One is, wide transformation and why is it so important now in Blackwolf Consultants?
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  Let let me start with the Blackwolf Consultants.
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  Piece because the 2 were connected.
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  And, Blackwell Consultants, really came into inception in about 2013.
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  Prior to that, I'd spent 20 years as a corporate consultant traveling around the
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  world, doing global consulting, anything from, executive coaching, one on one work to,
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  teamwork, to large corporate groups.
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  I left the, the as an independent contractor in 2012 and started Black Wolf in 2013 because
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  Specifically, I thought that there was a really, important gap, in organizational
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  development work and organization development transformation and individual transformation.
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  So Blackwolf was was created, specifically for, the purposes of providing or presenting, a
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  transformational program, to corporate America, to corporate world.
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  Black Wolf, started out as Crenza Leadership Strategies.
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  And I got a lot of feedback very quickly from clients that I've worked with for years.
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  Really, challenging my choice.
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  And I chose Blackwolf, Crimes's leadership strategies because I was nervous and uncertain
• 3:48
  on what to call the company.
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  And, after the feedback, I, said to my wife, who is also working in Blackwolf Consultants.
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  What what had just occurred.
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  And I asked her for some guidance in how I would name the company.
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  And she said, why don't you do what you always do, which is meditate.
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  And so, go within and ask, for help, and support on what I wanted to call the company.
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  And, the Black Wolf, has been a totem of mine, for more than 30 years.
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  And, I was doing a lot of Native American Studies 30 years ago, and came to understand
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  that the totem was a spiritual guide, that you could ask for help at any point that you needed
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  it.
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  And when I asked how do I ask for my totem, I was told you ask for your totem.
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  And so that's what I did.
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  And literally the black wolf came into my meditation, within several minutes, as though
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  it was waiting to be asked.
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  What I came to understand, over the years was how valuable the Blackwolf totem was, in
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  helping me guide my own life path Black Wolf Consultants when, I I was sent a book called
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  The Hero in the Outlaw by Carol Pearson.
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  By a client who I had worked with in the Middle East and was doing marketing work with me.
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  And I read the book, and it talked about the importance of embracing the archetype of the of
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  what your company stood for.
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  So, it's no wonder to me that the Blackwolf really came into my meditation very quickly,
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  and it became very clear that the archetype that the Black Wolf was really representing was
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  really twofold, and this is what Blackwolf means.
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  Blackwolf means bringing light into times of darkness, So it really is the iconic symbol of
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  the wolf howling in front of the moon.
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  That's what that means.
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  It means bringing light into times of darkness.
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  The other symbol of the Black Wolf is the pathfinder.
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  The other archetype of the Black Wolf is is pathfinder.
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  And the pathfinder, really represents this unique, ability that the Wolf has, which is
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  that it's never lost.
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  There's a lot of misunderstanding, of the, qualities of the wolf.
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  And, you know, that that that's a separate conversation and really needs to be addressed
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  and is important to be addressed.
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  And we're addressing it as we do our work.
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  So that's the name of our company.
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  And, you know, we have you know, about 7 consultants working for us globally, and we're
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  a global consulting company focused on transformation.
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  So it's a it's an interesting that you went safe, to name the company, and then you went
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  inside to find what should have come naturally from you from you.
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  And, with most most of us when we're making a major decision, it's either based on you're on
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  on love, right, like, to kind of go to that space and you went inside and you were able to
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  kind of, you know, what a, you know, what a great name, first of all, but the symbolism
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  behind it is is actually kind of breathtaking when I think about leadership and, you know,
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  the space that you have to go into to create that leader within yourself in order to shine
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  the light on the path as you go.
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  So, Gabriel, tell me a little bit about you.
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  And, when you got involved in company and, what it's been like working with your dad?
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  I feel in some ways I've I was in indoctrinated into this line of work, at a at a very early
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  age.
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  You know, I have very clear memories of sayings like, you know, you are your word, and and and
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  do what you say you're gonna do when you're gonna do it, which really holds true in our
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  work you know, with executives around the world.
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  And so there's there's a lot of kind of very simple learnings that I was brought up with
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  that are naturally, you know, just kind of ingrained in in this work.
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  So when I decided to join Blackwolf just about 5 years ago, it was a very it kinda graceful
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  and ease filled transition from my career.
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  You know, I I my academic background is in sustainability, and, both my undergrad and
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  masters work.
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  I worked for the Natural Resources Defense Council for a half dozen years on,
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  environmental policy and food systems change.
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  And during that time, I started to become more and more involved in, strategic supply chain
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  and operations for raw material sourcing.
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  And and, I decided to go back to, school and get my masters of business administration.
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  Great program out in San Francisco.
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  It was focused on, it was a it was an MBA in Sustainability Management So very focused on
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  the lens of, triple bottom line, you know, people planet profit, kinda looking through
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  that lens when approaching big business decisions.
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  And, after I I graduated from that program, you know, my father Robert approached me and and
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  said, hey.
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  You know, do you have any interest in in doing some work with Blackwolf?
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  And I I kinda chuckled and I think I kind of muttered.
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  Yeah, that's not you know, I don't That's not the type of work I do.
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  And kind of the other parallel is my background guiding, in the wilderness, you know, for the
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  National Outdoor Leadership School.
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  I've been a senior instructor there for a dozen years.
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  And and and that's, you know, talk about transformation.
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  I mean, you take teams of people out into the wilderness for 30 days at a time, and they come
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  back, completely changed and forever impacted And so, you know, when Robert approached me, I
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  was like, well, you know, I thank you.
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  You know, I'm on a I'm on a different trajectory, and and our work is is not very
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  similar.
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  And I think I, you know, kind of wanted to respectfully humor him.
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  So I I took on think I took on a little writing project, and shadowed, a a consultant at
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  Blackwolf, Burke Miller and, you know, kinda like saw the process of him working with the
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  team and engaging one on 1 and one on many.
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  And and I kinda had this, almost a Tiffany moment where I was like, uh-oh, okay.
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  This is This is exactly what I wanna do.
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  And and, and so my approach to the work is much more experiential.
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  In kind of how I, my offering to Black Wolf.
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  So I I create a experiences for executives that are, I would say, more out of the box, taking
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  folks outdoors and and, you know, this idea of, wilderness immersions, taking people, kind of
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  allowing them the opportunity to un plug in order to reconnect with themselves and each
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  other.
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  And Yeah.
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  I couldn't be more grateful to to do the work, and I continue to learn.
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  It's a, you know, it's a culture of curiosity.
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  And and humility.
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  I think the other piece I wanna mention is how you introduced us for both men we're also we're
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  also both white men.
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  And I think the the gift that we are very conscious about giving is you know, how to be
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  how to be in contribution and how to really be in service given the privilege that we were
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  born into, and and kind of, fiercely working towards kind of deconstructing the stereotypes
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  that, you know, rightfully so, we're so well known for.
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  So, yeah.
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  It's not amazing.
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  The synergy, right, even that's the alignment, you know, like the when when you go in in in a
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  place of deepness like you were going on your path, and I have a twenty year old.
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  So, Gabriel, I can I I chuckle when I think about his his path and what it where it might
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  lead him?
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  And as a parent, it's it's, you know, it's it's nice to listen and hear that you found that
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  spot.
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  You were and then, you know, it it kinda led you back.
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  I'm gonna use, you know, to some of those basic core fundamental values that you've been
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  learning probably since your crawling around, and then you're able to to give that gift back
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  into the world.
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  I wanna talk about the overall concept You know, it's so funny because I didn't look up
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  the the meeting of Black Wolf, and I'm actually kind of glad I didn't, because just hearing
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  that really, illuminates a place within me, and I as I think about leadership because, you
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  know, I became a leader quite young.
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  I think it was my early twenties and, running, clinics at hospitals.
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  And you are often frivolous as that, you know, whether it's young, and I would say an age at
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  this point, but some some leaders are just in that that space where they're they're trying,
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  and they have they're they're not mal intentions, but sometimes they get lost.
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  So I wanna talk a little bit about kind of the the overall kind of airily aerial view of
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  transformational leadership and kind of some of the things that you offer at at at Blackwolf
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  and help me understand how you work with companies and leaders, and how you decide where
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  where they fit.
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  In, in reference to some of your offerings.
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  Whoever wants to answer, that's good with me.
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  I'm just gonna take a a peek because and, speak about, you know, my son and a little bit of his
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  history and really just in in a in a short period.
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  I came and this is connected to your question.
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  Uh-uh, I came to understand in the eighties the importance of human beings transforming human
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  beings that were born into a belief system really not being given the option or the
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  awareness, even being aware that there is a choice that they were born into.
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  So when I was in my thirties, I came to understand that I could choose and that was
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  fundamentally my responsibility to choose.
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  And what I came to see was to choose inclusion versus exclusion.
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  And and I I know that's a a little vague at the moment, but inclusion, literally including the
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  community called The Planet Earth.
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  In exclusion, is a a model that, a lot of us have been born into and aren't aware that we
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  are living from an exclusional place or a place of not being open to ideas, other ideas, other
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  concerns, other considerations, other values.
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  And so that that that would be the distinction in the eighties nineties was filled with and I
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  lived in New York City at the time, programs, processes, teachers that was really, quant
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  qualified later as the human potential movement.
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  So there was a huge movement.
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  I guess I would also include the decade of seventies 90s into, the question who am I?
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  It led me naturally into the, the transition from adolescent to adult and how important that
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  question is to fundamentally lead the rest of your life from And what I also came to see was
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  that a parent couldn't do that for the child.
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  That the child, needed to be mentored, in a very different way in a way that the that the
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  parent didn't even consider, primarily because we had the role called the parent.
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  You know, we were protecting them.
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  So if we continue to protect them, they would never really be discover who they are.
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  You know, they'd be defined by the parent.
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  So Gabriel, went into a program called North Waters Landscape when he was fourteen years
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  old.
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  And he has been on and I'll let him speak for himself.
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  Many different adventures and expeditions, since he's fourteen, and that is Gabriel How
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  old was that?
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  20 plus years ago.
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  20 years ago.
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  Right?
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  23 years ago.
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  And I'm, Gabriel is clearly his own man, and makes his own choices and chooses his choices
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  and I'm very proud and honored that he chose to be a part of Blackwolf.
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  There's a lot more that goes into that, but, you know, that's that's really, talking a
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  little bit about Gabriel and a little bit about mentoring and parenting.
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  And I would say, fundamentally, how do we move beyond a self centered experience into a kind
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  of global inclusional experience.
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  Mhmm.
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  And, unfortunately, a lot of our adolescents are really who have now moved into the thirties
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  in their thirties and forties and fifties and even older and they're operating from a self
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  centered experience rather than the occlusal experience.
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  And what I'm seeing now trans trans you know, take, you know, take that arc into the
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  transformational work.
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  My understanding and my belief is that our beliefs drive our behaviors and that
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  fundamentally is what transformation means.
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  Fundamentally, what transformation means is that if we have disempowering behaviors that we
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  want to change in order to change them in order to transform our disempowering behavior, we
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  have to understand.
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  We have to do the work of understanding what our beliefs are that are driving that behavior.
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  And typically what occurs is that disempowering beliefs are really identified and transformed
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  into empowering beliefs.
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  And consequently disempowering behaviors are transformed into empowering behaviors.
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  So what it is that you are having and what's naturally occurring is choosing your beliefs
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  and behaviors, we human beings want to be inclusion.
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  We don't wanna be exclusional.
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  And so what what is occurring as a result of that is this sense of freedom within a context
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  called who am I?
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  So this who am I question is really fundamentally the most important first question
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  that we human beings can be asked or ask ourselves.
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  And who I am or who am I really is connected to who am I being.
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  So it's really connected to the being of who you are, not the doing of who you are.
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  And then the absence of who, who am I what fills the space and what we're inculturated
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  into, and I'm talking globally now for the most part, particularly in the developed countries.
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  Or countries that aspire to be developed, there's there they are and I'm gonna use it of
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  of this word very, carefully, but very consciously.
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  We're trapped in a model of doing in order to have in order to be happy.
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  Mhmm.
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  So one of the things that I've learned and and you asked the question, how how do I How does
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  Blackwolf decide who to work with by asking them and listening?
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  Which is really foundational to our work.
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  Why do you wanna do the work?
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  Well, you know, I wanna sell more ad space.
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  I don't think I really wanna work with you.
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  Well, I I wanna create a better strategy.
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  Well, you know, I'm I'm not a strategic guy.
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  Absolutely.
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  Absolutely.
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  Because I think, you know, if we think of the time that we're in and the leadership that
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  we're seeing Unfortunately, let's let's talk look on a global look at what's happened with,
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  you know, with you in the US or just a global perspective of the world.
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  I often say you know, everybody's on tilt, and then you have some leaders that are saying,
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  absolutely, we want change.
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  We want transformation.
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  In name alone.
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  And then there's ones that really, really want it.
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  So not the trajectory of here's my mission.
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  Here's my vision.
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  You know, this is where I wanna be.
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  But how does that all fit?
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  Because I'm gonna think people are gonna come towards you like they come towards me.
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  To make change.
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  And then as you start to delve further and you start to get the key metrics of what's
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  happening organizationally and the things that needs to be changed, and you get a a different
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  kind of perspective.
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  Well, oh, it's all well and good.
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  We wanna make some change, but we're really not looking in for that, you know, real, what I
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  call second order change, we're looking for some change just to kinda look good to the
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  marketplace out there.
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  There's sometimes a very a very gentle bait and switch.
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  You know, it and and I think that term notes a lack of integrity, but The integrity piece is
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  really what we're focused on.
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  So what you just mentioned is kind of transactional change.
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  You know, we wanna We wanna do this and, kind of transactional strategy.
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  Right?
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  You know, we need to build, you know, ramp up our our widget building.
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  And, to do that, we need to be inspired.
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  We need to fire our employees.
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  I I've noticed with clients past that, you know, the lens with which we do our work.
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  It's like, you know, trying to describe, a color that's never been seen.
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  And how do you do that with a client that doesn't, you know, currently have that
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  spectrum, on their, you know, in their pallet.
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  So what Robert just said, you know, we wanna work with people that wanna do the work and
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  that are, you know, excited to do the work, but I think kind of at at the most basic level.
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  We wanna work with people that are curious.
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  And there's a level of curiosity and willing to play.
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  Right?
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  Like, you know, are you are you committed to having some degree of imagination about what's
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  possible, or, you know, are you just gonna hire us and and tell us what you wanna to do.
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  And if that's the case, nice to know.
• 25:39
  Yeah.
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  So let's talk about the imagination.
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  I hadn't thought about that.
• 25:42
  So I'm curious because I know you do some pretty interesting things.
• 25:45
  Yep.
• 25:46
  Just talk about the concept of imagination.
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  So I'm a, you know, I'm a, you know, part of a senior leadership team.
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  I know we're we're we're we're committed.
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  I'm not thinking imagination.
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  So explain to me how what that process is like and what might you be doing to potentially
• 26:04
  start to introduce people.
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  I'm gonna think it's a bit at a time.
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  It's not, you know, all of a sudden, they go from you know, one state into an, you know, a a
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  playful state.
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  How do you kind of start to introduce the concept of, of imagination in some of things
• 26:20
  that you might do.
• 26:22
  Yeah.
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  I I think that, you know, imagination is the precursor to innovation.
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  And everyone wants to innovate today.
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  You know, that's like such a hot topic and, you know, how to disrupt in the market through
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  innovation and, you know, how to how to evolve products.
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  And and so usually that's kind of the that's more of the selling catchphrase.
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  You know,
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  we'll do a movie.
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  You're not gonna do a search for creativity, but you're gonna look for innovation or
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  disruptors.
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  Potentially when people are coming to you, they might come with that perspective and really At
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  that point, you're kind of going through the process and they start to recognize that it's
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  in fact getting to that creative space that will get get them to achieve their goals.
• 27:13
  Yeah.
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  So one of the one of the kind of services that I've together and and gotten to facilitate CEOs
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  of, you know, massive companies around the world is it's a day long where it can be a
• 27:28
  couple days.
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  Sometimes it can just be an afternoon activity that, involves It involves a lot of strategy
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  and it's almost like a geocaching exercise.
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  If you're familiar with what that is,
• 27:43
  Oh, we bet.
• 27:44
  We bet.
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  Kind of it's like a scavenger hunt.
• 27:47
  Yeah.
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  Because it could don't you know, the kids I'm gonna age myself here.
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  Play that with Pokemon Go or something.
• 27:53
  That's Yeah.
• 27:54
  Exactly.
• 27:55
  It's kinda
• 27:55
  That's my sketch of it.
• 27:57
  Then you kinda know, but Yeah.
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  I built what I'll do is I'll build a course, and it will be, it can be in a public park.
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  It could be in a national forest.
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  It can be in downtown Boulder.
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  We've done them in downtown Boulder and, you know, there's all these kind of virtual and
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  physical clues, and it's a game.
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  I mean, at the end of the day, it's a game, but the Activity really is a proxy for how these
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  people work together.
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  And it's, you know, I'm I'm a bit it's my generation.
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  I'm a bit averse to team building.
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  You know, it's not a team building activity.
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  It's a kind of culture building activity.
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  And What really at the end of the day, again, it's that it's that proxy that parallels how
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  they interact.
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  And if you can distract them enough to think that it is a game and they can let their walls
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  down and, they're their true colors shine, so to speak.
• 29:02
  You get very fascinating things coming out and and and one of the big topics of this, you
• 29:11
  know, you kind of if it's a if it's a team of 12, you'd break them up in the small groups of
• 29:16
  3 so that they have more, opportunity to interact and one of the major themes that comes
• 29:24
  out is is what's the intersection between collaboration and competition And so you get
• 29:31
  these, you know, small teams of 3 and they all wanna win, but you don't really you don't
• 29:37
  really define what winning is.
• 29:39
  You know, the rules are very, interpretable and similar to the marketplace.
• 29:45
  You know, there's different, leverage points within within the markets that are unseen.
• 29:52
  And not all the rules are unwritten, right, not all companies play by this code, the code needs
• 29:59
  to be defined.
• 30:01
  And so typically the after after the activity, you know, the after action review or the
• 30:08
  debrief is where major major themes come out, but that imagination piece, really comes into
• 30:16
  play because they get to define what winning looks like.
• 30:20
  And do they wanna collaborate as one large group to kind of unlock the puzzle so to speak?
• 30:27
  I mean, the course is huge.
• 30:29
  It can be it can be a hundred points of of space.
• 30:34
  You know, it's kind of like an expansive world
• 30:36
  Sounds like fun.
• 30:37
  It sounds like fun.
• 30:39
  Yeah.
• 30:39
  Leadership at, you know, it's leadership at play.
• 30:42
  You know?
• 30:43
  Yeah.
• 30:43
  Absolutely.
• 30:43
  Who doesn't wanna have fun at work?
• 30:45
  And I think that oftentimes what's lacking because it's like, you know, let's do the swadd
• 30:49
  analysis.
• 30:50
  Let's do the internal, the external, and, you know, all those things.
• 30:54
  But what I hear here is that you're reaching somewhere with within their space and, you
• 30:59
  know, all roles aside, or you kind of understand how they how they deal with
• 31:04
  differences, or how they problem solve, or how their personalities would interact with each
• 31:09
  other.
• 31:10
  It sounds it sounds like a reading quartile space, whatever that space gets defined as,
• 31:16
  like you said, for people to really, drop their guard and come to some, you know, probably a
• 31:22
  lot of realizations I would think of as an overall team as well.
• 31:26
  Yeah.
• 31:26
  I think what's, I think one of the most heartbreaking, you know, dichotomies or
• 31:34
  binaries in in corporate culture is that there's that you have to be 2 separate people.
• 31:43
  You know, you you're you're you're your work person and you're person when you're out of
• 31:48
  work.
• 31:49
  And I think that it's leading to a lot of upset and depression at work and and people, you
• 31:57
  know, the the idea of, you know, just not being able to be your true self and, you know,
• 32:08
  imposter syndrome.
• 32:10
  Because you are, you know, you you're pretending.
• 32:14
  So this play and imagination sparking space when people get, you know, and it's not your
• 32:21
  typical off-site where you're at a fancy hotel and some retreat room, and then you share a
• 32:26
  meal together and and, you know, then go off to your separate rooms and do it again the next
• 32:31
  day.
• 32:32
  And, you know, how do you really share in a lived experience together?
• 32:36
  Where, you know, work is not defining who you are, you get to define who you are.
• 32:43
  Well, it sounds it sounds it sounds lovely.
• 32:46
  This was such a great interview that we decided to turn it into a two part series.
• 32:51
  Be sure to tune in next week for part 2 so you don't miss out on the amazing content.
• 32:57
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive
• 33:02
  healthy change.
• 33:04
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 33:10
  rocksandirhaj.com/blueprint.
• 33:14
  We'll see you next time.
• 33:16
  On authentic living with Roxanne.