Latest / Veteran Wellness Podcast / The Night That Changed Everything: A Veteran’s Battle After Afghanistan | Dan Siwak

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The Night That Changed Everything: A Veteran’s Battle After Afghanistan | Dan Siwak · Veteran Wellness Podcast

• Dan Siwak: There were some cops there from from the city and I guess some of were veterans and one of 'em's like, Hey man, you know, you okay? And you go to the VA and I was like, Yeah, I just signed up last week and I showed him the card and he's like, You know what? why don't we give you a ride, man? We're gonna take you right now. you're not in any trouble or anything, but we're just really concerned about you, when the guy was driving me up, he's like, dude, you know, they'll put you on something. I'm like, I don't want to be on anything. I don't want to be on any meds. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: And he's like, why not? I said, because I will probably want to end up doing what you're doing. And he laughed and he said, dude, we're all on meds. We're all on meds. We all have this. He's like, don't worry ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: about it. You don't have to be worried to get help. It was like it was like God, you know, putting somebody in your path to help you, ERIK LAWRENCE: Dan, how the hell are you? Dan Siwak: Doing good, Eric. Nice to see you again. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, I haven't seen you in a long time, buddy. we've known each other almost probably twenty years, I would think. Dan Siwak: Yes, about twenty years now. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, that's awesome. You know, I've seen you you go through a lot of changes. You know, which country you're living in and what you're up to and what you're doing for work. So give me some background on you there for everybody else. Dan Siwak: Sure. you know, I grew up in Southern California, pretty nice neighborhood and I don't know why, but I decided to join the army. You know, I just thought, okay, I'm gonna travel, you know, just see what's out there. And so that's what I did at nineteen. they sent me to Fort Sill, Oklahoma for my basic training. And you know, it was combat arms style basic training, so it was a little bit tougher than some of the others. and then I went to the Army Signal School at Fort Gordon, Georgia, because that's my my MOS or my specialty is communications. So spent time at Fort Gordon and it was on my twentieth birthday exactly that I graduated from the signal school. And from there got my first assignment. It was Fort Riley, Kansas, with the first infantry division, one five field artillery. They are I think it's still the oldest active unit in the army. It's called Hamilton's Own, by Alexander Hamilton, who started that battalion. ERIK LAWRENCE: Wow, didn't know that. Dan Siwak: Yeah, so we always used to say Hamilton's own when we would Absolute an officer, they wanted us to say that. So that was like our tradition. fairly good unit. I was only there for about a year, but I was already assigned as the Comsec guy. And somehow, some way, I got picked up by INSCOM. and I went, they said you're going to Germany, you're gonna go to 66th MI group. So I spent two years in 66th MI. and I was doing one year in comms, one year in operations, and it was great, loved Germany. And then I I ETS'd, so that was like four years that I did their total of active duty. I was out for a while, going to community college, trying to figure out what the next step was gonna be. And they you know nine eleven happened and so we knew something was gonna go down. Well, I was still a individual ready reservist, and believe it or not, yes, they do call those people back. I'm living ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: proof of that. So for OEF and OIF, they called back twenty thousand IRR. ERIK LAWRENCE: Wow, no idea. Dan Siwak: Yeah, and only five thousand went to Afghanistan. So it was really rare to get called up to go to Afghanistan. So I I responded. I went to they sent me first to Fort Jackson. They had no idea who we were, what we were doing there. They didn't even know what building to put us in. we spent a couple weeks there. They really didn't even have a training plan for us. They didn't expect us to arrive. And then they said, okay, we need to do something. So let's send these guys back to Fort Gordon. So we went back to the old schoolhouse there to basically sit in on classes. They called it refresher training. So we already knew all we probably could have taught those classes to the students. I mean, it was ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: like that. you know, repetitive ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: for us because I had three NCOs and I was a s an E4 at the time. And so it was just, you know, the government didn't really know what to do with the IRR people yet. And then they sent us to Fort Bliss for CRC Combat Readiness Center. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: The only problem was that that's was the CRC for the people going to Iraq. So they basically sent us to the wrong CRC point. they had another one for Afghanistan. I don't I'm not quite can't remember which one it was, but we were at the wrong CRC at Fort Bliss. But that didn't matter. They put us through. they put us on a plane. We went to Kuwait, Camp Wolf, we got there. They said, How in the hell did you get on this plane with these orders? Like Why are you guys even here? You're like in the wrong flight route area. We don't go to Afghanistan from here. So they had to figure out what to do. We spent a couple of days in Kuwait. It was super hot. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: And so then we decided, you know, just okay, we're just rolling with this now. We the army doesn't even know where we are. We caught a flight to Qatar. It was Al Al Yud Airbase or something like that. And we were stuck there for like a week, just like trying to get f a flight to Afghanistan. And there was nothing that it was it was just weird because we couldn't get on a flight. So we were just hanging out at the wagon wheel every night, which I don't know, most people that went through there they know about the wagon wheel. it was a controlled party environment. So we were trying to stay there as long as possible, but ERIK LAWRENCE: Ha ha ha Dan Siwak: they finally they found us. They said, No, you guys are literally mission critical. Department of the Army has been like searching for you guys. You guys need to get on a plane. Say, okay, get us one. So they got us on a C 17, just me and three other guys, and nothing else on the plane. And they said, These guys are mission critical. They need to go now. These guys are like, they were supposed to be in Afghanistan like two weeks ago. So the pilots were joking with us. They're like, Are you guys like really army or what are you guys? Like, what is this? ERIK LAWRENCE: Ha ha. Dan Siwak: And they said we've never we've never had to do this before where we're flying guys with, you know, three sergeants and one specialist to Afghanistan. So we were like ERIK LAWRENCE: Incredible. Dan Siwak: royal, royal cargo. so that was kind of fun. we were throwing the nerf football around inside there and all that. And ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, they're huge. Dan Siwak: so then when we we finally got into Afghanistan and we landed the plane and it was just like right away, here, here here's your ammo. And we've landed at Bagram. They said we need to go to Kabul to the embassy compound, because you guys are going to the embassy compound. So I went there, they trained us for a week on the theater, and the three sergeants got sent to PRT teams, the provincial reconstruction teams. I was in E four, but I don't know, they I guess I could have gone out to a team too, but they're like, No, we're gonna keep you at headquarters because you know Comseat. So I became the Comsec guy for that that task force or whatever. And so from there, I kind of stayed back. The other guys went to the other teams and I just started going on missions whenever we needed to. And after about a month or two of being at the embassy compound, they moved us to Vagram where everybody was. And So we we occupied there, they called it the Motel Six and Motel Eight. Motel Eight, we were the like the first unit to move in there in those two buildings by the kind of by the tower. And so we turned that into a pretty nice operations base or building. It was an old Russian building, with weird doorways and whatnot. And who knows what went on in those buildings before we got there, but ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah. Dan Siwak: you know, my job there I was I was basically just the comms guy, fixing radios, antennas, computers, laptops. I was like a like a service guy for the laptops and It was it was really interesting. I also was the trainer for SATCOM for Afghanistan. And since that was that was C J C O T F. So that's ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: combined joint civil military operations task force. So that's a mix of everybody. You have all sorts of special people in there, special units, and you have foreign partners as well. So we had I've trained British, Australian, New Zealand, all all these different teams that were there. and basically, yeah, we had a lot of international partners. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: And so that was pretty much my main thing was going out on helicopters, on the ring flights to do the The ComSec drops, just swap out an ANCD with the other guy at the flight line and get back on the bird and hope you know that we make it back. You know, sometimes we would pick up you had POWs, you had special forces teams, you had. I remember once how we picked up a bunch of ammunition in a Chinook, and if that You know, any of those old rockets would have hit something in there, that whole bird would have just exploded. So ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: a lot of scary times, some emergency landings and I was all over. I was in you know Mez, Mazaras Sharif, Pandus, Kandahar, Asadabad. So I went to a lot of places that the the normal Bagram people didn't didn't get to go to. also Jalalabad, Jabad. The team house there. Yeah, and the ERIK LAWRENCE: No, yeah. Spent a lot of time there, yeah. Dan Siwak: team house. So yeah, and that was that was pretty much my my experience there. I was there for a year. That was like 2003 to 2004. And got to rebuild a lot of schools and we built bridges, we built dams, we, you know, we did all the community relations type of work. while the the A teams, the special forces guys, they usually were living at those compounds as well. they were doing the more har hands-on work. Well our people were doing the the community relations work. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: but we definitely you know, civil affairs, K Poc, civil affairs psychological operations. So it's it's very, very closely linked with with special forces and on the civil affairs side of it, they were all reservists. all reservists. ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm, a lot. Yeah, that's true. Dan Siwak: I think that now I back then it was only one active duty unit was civil affairs. Maybe they have more now, but back then it was the reservists. So these people were just like showing up from we had teachers, cops, all people from all different backgrounds on our teams. Even veterinarians. We even had our own ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah, you gotta have you gotta have the whole the whole cadre, yeah, of course. Dan Siwak: Yeah. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: Well what'd you do when you got home? Dan Siwak: So when I got home I guess I I bought a really nice computer and played video games for a month. I didn't really want to leave my room and ironically, you know, playing like combat video games. and then I said, Well, I should be looking for a job. So I I saw there was a company in close by in Huntington Beach that was they made the the SATCOM antennas that I used to fix when I was in Afghanistan. And so I sent in my resume and I thought like I would just get a regular job there. And they I went to the interview and met the owner and some of the other guys there and they said, Well, congratulations, you're our new sales manager. So I was like, Okay. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: And it actually worked really well because I was able to use my experience using their products and improve their products. ERIK LAWRENCE: Well, that's where I met you, you know, back when I had Blackheart International and we were selling Dan Siwak: Yeah. Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: those antennas. I mean you were our main guy and I think we became the the the largest reseller back in the day Dan Siwak: Okay. ERIK LAWRENCE: for those antennas. That so that was great for everybody. I wish I'd a saved one, but I didn't, you know. But Yeah, probably. Yeah. Dan Siwak: I know. Maybe you could find one on eBay or something. That's a souvenir. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, guys are using for making combo shots, you know, ham radio Dan Siwak: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: guys. And I just giggle when I see doing that. I'm like, shit. I had hundreds of those. Yeah. Dan Siwak: Yeah. I know, right? ERIK LAWRENCE: Well that kept you in California, so that was good. Dan Siwak: Yep. So then I you know, I I was with with that company for about five years, but then I decided, you know what, I I know how to network, I know how to get things done, and I'm gonna do my own consulting firm. So then I picked up some very good clients. I think one one of them was definitely Blackheart. and we worked on a even more projects together. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: I did that for three years. but then you know, the wars kinda stopped, like the the cycle kinda stopped, and I was just kinda burned out, honestly. so I had just gotten my hundred percent disability. and so I was like, you know what? I wanna go to the Philippines. So, you know, my wife is from there, so it just worked out. So Went to the Philippines to just I think I just kinda wanted to get away from everything and try to reset my mind. And just live in the jungle and do my thing there. And I did for five years. Yeah. And then ERIK LAWRENCE: Yep. Dan Siwak: COVID happened. My son and I we came back for vacation. And then they wouldn't let us go back because everything was so locked down and he needed to start school again. And I had just had to make the decision, like I'm not I need to get this kid in school. So I just put him in the school, in the yeah, the school down the street. And I called my wife and told her, Hey, bring bring our daughter as well. We're just gonna we're just gonna try to reset over here 'cause COVID over there in the Philippines was really bad. It was it was ERIK LAWRENCE: I heard draconian. Dan Siwak: I lost I lost some people I knew. they died from that and you couldn't even leave your your barangay or your neighborhood. It was travel restricted and wow, if you thought the US was bad. they were really, really had it on lockdown there. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, I heard that. Dan Siwak: so when I got stuck over here, I just kinda got bored. I needed something to do. So I got into private security arm work in Southern California and I've just kind of been doing that since, with different companies, different assignments. Some of were a little bit more high risk than others, but I like it. It still keeps me connected, you know, to ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: you know, doing the the work that's kinda similar to the military. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, but you know, through all this, you know, I think you're downplaying it some, but the struggles we all kind of takes a little while to formulate, you know, and really to identify it I think too, because Dan Siwak: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: i it's gotta percolate over a while and then things kinda start coming to the surface. Did you notice that also? Dan Siwak: I did. I I started noticing it when I was doing my my sales manager thing, you know, just so much stress I really didn't didn't know how to deal with it and you know, just too much too much money all at once, I guess, and and you know, doing the lifestyle, you know, they're sending me all over the world to go Yeah, you need to go to London, you need to go here. The company had a private jet, you know, that I could use for different trips. So it was like, man, this is fun and I I had fun, but I I also I didn't realize I was I was poisoning my body, you know, with alcohol and just I was also kind of a workaholic. ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm-hmm. Dan Siwak: I was taking calls from Iraq and Afghanistan soldiers in the field. They're ordering antennas from me. It's like three AM in Southern California, but I got them on the phone and I would do whatever I had to do to help them and ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: get those orders in. But you know, I really didn't have to go that far. I kind of pushed myself over the edge, over the limit for the for the company. You know, work too hard a little too hard, burn myself out. ERIK LAWRENCE: Well, how did that affect the you know, you you identifying this condition coming around? Dan Siwak: Yeah, just you know, you start realizing like you start having bad times, I didn't wanna go to the VA and w first time I went there I was like, Man, I don't wanna get back into this government thing and I would I'm done with this. But so I went in, signed myself up, they gave me the the newcomers folder, you know, that you're carrying around the hospital. They give you a little tour of okay, this is where you go here, there, 'cause the place is absolutely massive, you know. Especially in Long Beach. So you if you don't have a map there, you're you're done. And so they it was about a week, it was only a week that I was out and then I went out to Huntington Beach, which has very good nightlife. And I I just had a really bad night. I just had like a breakdown, you know, and I don't know how it happened, but there were There were some cops there from from the city and I guess some of were veterans and one of 'em's like, Hey man, you know, you okay? And you go to the VA and I was like, Yeah, I just signed up last week and I showed him the card and he's like, You know what? why don't we give you a ride, man? We're gonna take you right now. you're not in any trouble or anything, but we're just really concerned about you, man. We we want to make sure you get home safe or that you can talk to somebody. And so they gave me a ride up PCH to Long Beach. and so they take me to the VA to the to the desk there or whatever, and I'm coming in with the cops and then and they're like, We need his paperwork. We need his what's the incident number, what's this, that, the other, who is this guy? And they said Listen, he doesn't there is no incident, okay? We're not gonna give you anything. We're bringing him here to help him. He he needs help. And you guys need to help him. And they like they were arguing with the cops. Like, no, you need to give ERIK LAWRENCE: Wow. Dan Siwak: us some paperwork on him. We don't want we we just can't take you guys have you guys dropping people off on us. Like like they were causing them an inconvenience, right? ERIK LAWRENCE: Wow. Dan Siwak: That's the level of of like employees he had there. And so they I stayed there. they you know they they did their thing. They found out what's wrong. Okay. They talked to you and it was it was helpful for a while. But the thing is this thing comes in cycles. It it like ERIK LAWRENCE: Mm-hmm. Dan Siwak: you know, it's like kinda like having a a ghost or a demon or whatever that, you know, it can just appear at any time. So even when things are good, it's scary because you don't know if you're gonna have a an incident, you know, where you something sets you off. Like it probably did that night, probably some trigger that set me off. It was a trigger. Something ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, some trigger caught ya. Yeah. Dan Siwak: set me off that night. And and I guess those cops had identified it and they they ERIK LAWRENCE: Good. Dan Siwak: I'm glad I found them. I mean, they were great and Also, when I was when the guy was driving me up, he's like, dude, you know, they'll put you on something. I'm like, I don't want to be on anything. I don't want to be on any meds. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: And he's like, why not? I said, because I will probably want to end up doing what you're doing. And he laughed and he said, dude, we're all on meds. We're all on meds. We all have this. He's like, don't worry ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: about it. You don't have to be worried to get help. So that was kind of nice that we had that conversation. It was like it was like God, you know, putting somebody in your path to help you, you know. So ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, you were fortunate for that instant, so Dan Siwak: Well. ERIK LAWRENCE: that's good. Dan Siwak: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: Well, I mean, did you kinda start any, you know, routine changes or health changes or something to try to minimize that or to identify the triggers. Dan Siwak: Yeah, definitely. the main thing for me, I should avoid the bars. you know, number one. ERIK LAWRENCE: Well, yeah, of course. Yeah. Dan Siwak: But for the trigger specifically, like just kinda like if I'm if I'm feeling uneasy, just kinda try to separate myself from the situation, take do the breathing exercises that they taught us. and that helps, you know, just Just to kinda I think they say like touch something, you know, look at something. You you gotta like keep your mind like focused. Yeah, focused. Mm-hmm. Grounding. ERIK LAWRENCE: Focused. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta ground a little bit and focus. Dan Siwak: Yeah, that's exactly it. ERIK LAWRENCE: Well, and that you know, in this experience that we go through it it helps us to assist other people too. You know, like those police officers you ran into, y you can identify others, you know, and you can stop them and go, Hey, what's what the hell's going on here? You know, I've done that, you know, I assume you probably have too, but and they don't have to take it as as advice or help, but I think you have to at least try. If you don't, you know, you kinda feel like a turd, you know, 'cause you don't know what's gonna Dan Siwak: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: happen down the line. And and just Dan Siwak: True. ERIK LAWRENCE: like those police officers giving you that little interaction, that might have saved a whole lot of whole lot of life issues. Dan Siwak: Absolutely. I mean it could have been right there that, you know, that they s if they wouldn't have gotten me back to the VA, you know, and and if I wouldn't have had that conversation where the guy says, It's all right, you know, it's ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: okay to get help. that's that's the most important part right there. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, yeah, that's great that that happened. But that happened for a reason. You Dan Siwak: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: know. That's why, you know, w we we run into these rough spots. But that that hardens us for later and to help others. 'Cause if we didn't do that we wouldn't have the experience. So, Dan Siwak: Yes. ERIK LAWRENCE: I mean, what do you what are you doing currently to you know, to to maintain a level? Dan Siwak: keeping busy at work, exercise. So I'm in a job where I have to move around a lot, sometimes break a sweat. I work work long shifts, so it it is kind of like a workout, you know. And ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: so exercise definitely. always doing activities with the family, as much as I can. I spend as much time with my kids as I can. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Well they're getting older too, so Dan Siwak: Right. ERIK LAWRENCE: Y you'll you'll you'll find out once they hit a certain age, they'll forget your name. Dan Siwak: Yeah. I know my son is already eighteen now, so ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah. Yeah, well mine's add ten to that, you know, so it's hard to get a hold of him. But Dan Siwak: Mm-hmm. Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: you know, I I think a lot of the guys, you know, they need to do that life detox too, you know, realize that alcohol has no positive effect, you know. Dan Siwak: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: The the spending times in bars, with with the you know, the dollar is jacking shit right now, so a drink is fifteen Dan Siwak: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: dollars. you know, or more. So it just is like on multiple levels of stupid 'cause it's like how how is that gonna have any positive effect on you the next day? None. Dan Siwak: Right. ERIK LAWRENCE: Y your wallet's empty, you turned it into urine, and you may have gotten in trouble. So what's the whole point? Dan Siwak: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: You know, and if you're just distracting yourself, find a more constructive way to distract yourself. You know, learning. Learning goes a long way. If you can get addicted Dan Siwak: Exactly. Learning, yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: to learning That helps a lot. Dan Siwak: So w one of the positive things at the VA was that they put me in a program to go back to school. And it's ERIK LAWRENCE: There you go. See? Dan Siwak: I I didn't ha I just had like a little bit of community college done. But I I went through this special program where it's like a mock class where they you you even have like an assignment you have to turn in at the end and and the the nurses or the the doctors or whatever are playing like the role of a teacher. They're like, okay, this is a classroom environment, you know, this is what's gonna happen here. And it was really cool. And yeah, I I got my my bachelor's degree in history from Arizona State University. ERIK LAWRENCE: Good. Dan Siwak: So that was cool. And I did that ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, Dan Siwak: when I was in the Philippines. I did it online. So ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah, yeah, with online now. I mean, COVID Dan Siwak: Uh-huh. ERIK LAWRENCE: kind of fixed all the online stuff too. a and there's tons of them are totally free. Or they're part of a Dan Siwak: Uh-huh. ERIK LAWRENCE: program that all you have to do is, you know, fill out the paperwork. And and when in doubt there's YouTube. You can learn anything Dan Siwak: Exactly. ERIK LAWRENCE: on YouTube. I don't wanna hear it th you know, if if you're lazy Dan Siwak: Uh-huh. ERIK LAWRENCE: I can't help ya. But you know that that goes a long way. But I I'm sure you know, it goes down to nutrition, fitness, activity, social connection. You know, we we know all these but we have to apply and we have Dan Siwak: Right. ERIK LAWRENCE: to routinely do it. And then once we identify a trigger, we have to minimize that as soon as we identify it. You know, as soon as you get near a trigger, Dan Siwak: yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: leave. Do whatever you have Dan Siwak: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: to. You know, and there's there's no reason to see it coming yet still walk in front of a train. 'Cause you don't know where that's gonna take you. It it it Dan Siwak: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: can get bad so quickly. And then you gotta dig it out of that hole that might take a long time, you know, either with the family or with the workers or the co workers or just, you know, heaven forbid some law enforcement contact. You Dan Siwak: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: know, so wha what else do you have to put out to a guy that's that's struggling and or just starting to identify his triggers or the situation. I mean, what what in a prioritized list helps you? Dan Siwak: surround yourself with around good people. try to find a buddy that has been through it so that he can guide you. Kinda like you know, like in AA they have sponsors type of thing, you know, where you can have a a battle buddy where he can like be like, Man, I I know what you what you're going through here. I'm gonna I'm gonna here, call you know, call this guy, this this specialist or whatever and Let's get you let's get you seen, you know, that type of thing. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. And and sometimes the medicine, you know, is not a a life sentence. You know, sometimes Dan Siwak: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: it just gets you over the hump to where you know, everybody fights it. Nobody wants to be on any meds, of course. And the VA'll pile them on you. So I I don't Dan Siwak: Yes. ERIK LAWRENCE: always say, believe the VA on that. You know, you might want a a second opinion that's non VA. But, you know, if it's six months and then for some reason you do some other therapy and it goes away, there you go. You know, it it got you over the hump. I fought that. I had to do a little bit at one time. And then but then I found different therapies that allowed me to wean off of it. So that helped a lot. But I kind of for years fought it, you know, which was pretty stupid. But you know, we all learn at our own pace. some of us are slower than others. But no, I I I appreciate you bringing this up, Dan, 'cause we need personal insight to this and in different instances. You know, and the the interaction with those police officers was instrumental, you know, but Dan Siwak: Yeah. ERIK LAWRENCE: thank goodness they they understood and identified what it was and didn't didn't go too far the other direction. 'Cause i Dan Siwak: Right. And and ERIK LAWRENCE: they can make it up, you know. Dan Siwak: Yeah, I mean think of how many the veterans that have PTSD are incarcerated right now. And ERIK LAWRENCE: yeah. Dan Siwak: I mean there's so many and it could have been just one stupid night of drinking in the wrong place at the wrong time and and you know what? Somebody could've I mean we're trained to fight, right? So ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: hmm it ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, it's a bad day. Dan Siwak: There's a lot of guys in jail that that right now that if they could get information to you know, once they do their sentence to get back on track, that would be great, you know. To help them somehow. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah, that's always a forgotten bunch, but I guarantee you there's gotta be quite a few. 'Cause Yeah. Sadly. Dan Siwak: Sure. And I run into a lot of homeless veterans too that they're they're just, you know. ERIK LAWRENCE: But we said it earlier, you know, they gotta want to be helped. You Dan Siwak: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: know, you you can't hold in the water trough making drink. but you can try. You know, if you don't try y you know, you're kind of a turd, so so do your part in trying. Dan Siwak: Uh-huh. ERIK LAWRENCE: But well got any parting shots there, Dan? I mean I I think we covered a good amount there. Dan Siwak: Yeah, I would say like, you know, some guys think like, I'm gonna go to the VFW and they're gonna fix my problems ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: or any other it could be American Legion, it could be any of those you know, they think that that that those organizations are are really gonna help them, but you gotta remember that, you know, they're serving alcohol to people with PTSD and at very cheap prices and ERIK LAWRENCE: at very cheap prices. Yeah, yeah, I I despise that concept. Dan Siwak: So that's like giving poison to the s people that are already sick and so I ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Yeah. Dan Siwak: you know, ERIK LAWRENCE: You're right. Dan Siwak: there's there's some other organizations out there that besides those those big ones that people can look at as well. So ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah, I'm sure there's some smaller community based ones. But yeah, the alcohol's gotta go. I hate to be a pr prude on that, but it's it's a no win. Dan Siwak: And and they're web based too. Because those those places will close eventually because like you stated earlier, you know, the the with the drink prices, the bars are gonna go out of business soon. I mean, ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: there's already a lot going out of business, right? So and any these kids now, the the younger call kids, but they're like the twenty year olds, they're they would rather go to seven eleven and get a six pack or whatever and then go play their video game or watch you know, Netflix or whatever. And ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Dan Siwak: that's they save money that way. So ERIK LAWRENCE: Well yeah, well everything costs so much now 'cause of the dollar value's just been crushed. yeah, you couldn't you couldn't sustain that's why the bars are bars are taking such a hit, I think, but that that's not my problem, that's their problem. They they picked that. Yeah. I I'm not gonna g Dan Siwak: That's their problem. Yeah, they picked that business. ERIK LAWRENCE: I'm not gonna give people alcohol and and take their money. Sorry. Dan Siwak: Right. ERIK LAWRENCE: Yeah. Well, Dan, I know you're up on a shift, so Dan Siwak: Mm-hmm. ERIK LAWRENCE: go get some rack time. Dan Siwak: Thank you. ERIK LAWRENCE: And you can call any time, you know. Dan Siwak: All right. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. All right, see ya. All right. Bye. All ERIK LAWRENCE: Yep. See see everybody. Thanks, Dan. Dan Siwak: right. Thanks.