Latest / Pod Save America / “Mark Meadows’ Fascist PowerPoint.”

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“Mark Meadows’ Fascist PowerPoint.” · Pod Save America

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  Speaker 1: We only have 100 days left until the 2022 midterms,
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  Speaker 1: in 2022 from the Senate, to your local school board.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: I'm Tommy Vitor.
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  Speaker 1: On today's show, the January 6th committee charges Trump's former
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: chief of staff with criminal contempt of Congress as the
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: ex-president's allies prepare for the next coup. Joe Biden and
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: co-president Joe Manchin chat about the future of Build Back Better.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump and Bill O'Reilly's roadshow is having trouble filling seats.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: And in the wake of the Supreme Court's decision on
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: the Texas abortion ban, we have a special feature on
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  Speaker 1: the future of Roe v. Wade that includes some moving
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  Speaker 1: stories from people who've already been affected by abortion restrictions.
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  Speaker 1: So please stick around to hear that. But first, before
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: we start, check out the latest offline. I talked to
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy about how to stop doom scrolling,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: what he calls America's silent epidemic of loneliness, and the
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: importance of real live human connection to our health.
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  Speaker 3: Did you ask him to prove that he's not related
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  Speaker 3: to Ezra Klein in any way?
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  Speaker 1: You know, he was on Ezra's show, and that's the
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: only way that I know they weren't the same people.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: And Ezra actually made a comment about it at the
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  Speaker 1: beginning of the show, which I thought was helpful.
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  Speaker 3: I've never been able to see it.
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  Speaker 1: Let's get to the news. On Monday, the bipartisan committee
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  Speaker 1: investigating the January 6th attack on the Capitol voted to
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  Speaker 1: bring a criminal contempt charge against former White House Chief
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: of Staff Mark Meadows for defying a subpoena. So Meadows
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: had initially agreed to testify, then backed out because Trump
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: threw a fit. But we're already learning a lot from
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: the thousands of documents, text messages and emails that Meadows
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  Speaker 1: had already handed over to the committee when he thought
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  Speaker 1: he was going to cooperate. Just a few examples of
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  Speaker 1: what we're learning about before we really dig in. One,
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  Speaker 1: an email where Meadows said that the National Guard would
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  Speaker 1: be present at the Capitol on January 6th to protect, quote,
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  Speaker 1: pro-Trump people.
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  Speaker 3: I want the record to reflect that John was doing
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  Speaker 3: air quotes, bunny quotes.
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  Speaker 1: You know, I appreciate that, Tommy, because often when I
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: do air quotes on the pod, I at least tell
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: people I'm doing air quotes.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: I usually write out quote unquote for myself.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: That's good.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe we should move on.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: He did air quotes there. Number two, an email where
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  Speaker 1: Meadows discussed getting Trump to persuade legislators in states that
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  Speaker 1: Biden won to send their own slate of Trump electors instead. Three,
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  Speaker 1: a 38 page PowerPoint saying, that a retired army colonel
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  Speaker 1: had sent to Meadows and various Republican members of Congress
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  Speaker 1: that urged Trump to overturn the election by declaring a
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  Speaker 1: national emergency based on the lie that China and Venezuela
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: had taken control of our voting machines. Real thing. Real thing.
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  Speaker 3: It was in a PowerPoint. That's the Sidney Powell beat, right?
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: That's the Sidney Powell. Probably started on your favorite podcast.
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  Speaker 3: Mike Lindell's probably on that too. Star wipe.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: So I'll stop there for your reactions. Usually the tough
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: part about these January 6th investigation stories is figuring out
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: what information is actually new and what matters most. What
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: do you guys think after reading all these stories about
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Mark Meadows' involvement? And is there anything else I didn't
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  Speaker 1: mention that you think people should know about?
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  Speaker 2: I would say generally, I think... I remember when McConnell
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: and other Senate Republicans said, oh, just what's the worst?
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  Speaker 2: Just let him let him lay out, you know, blow
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: some blow some steam.
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  Speaker 1: So it was a court to Ashley Parker, I think.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And I think what I take away from this is
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  Speaker 2: I think sometimes we are a little bit casual with
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  Speaker 2: Trump's fascism, in part because he seems so inept. But
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: the people around him, while inept, are not as inept
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  Speaker 2: as him. And this was a more sophisticated and detailed
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  Speaker 2: operation than even we had known until like the past
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  Speaker 2: couple of days. And we should all, I think, be
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  Speaker 2: honest about the fact that what stopped this was not
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  Speaker 2: how ham-fisted it was, not the lack of sophistication. What
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: stopped it was that they lacked power and that it
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: wasn't just the Mike Pence fail point, but that there
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: were a few other fail points that protected us throughout
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  Speaker 2: this emergency. But it wasn't because they didn't have a
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  Speaker 2: sophisticated and organized operation to overturn the election.
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  Speaker 1: I will say, I think it's also possible to just
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  Speaker 1: stumble ass backwards into a fascist takeover. Sure. Like it's
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: very well could be like, Oh, we're just, we're just
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  Speaker 1: humoring him. We're just humoring him. We're going down. We're
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  Speaker 1: getting closer. We're getting close. I mean, we'll just do it.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Remember when Mike Flynn was asked, why don't we have
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  Speaker 3: a coup here in the U S like they just
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  Speaker 3: did in Burma? And he was like, we absolutely should
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  Speaker 3: do that.
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  Speaker 1: We're like, it was like crazy. Mike Flynn, what's he doing?
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  Speaker 3: It turns out that was sort of a, you know,
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  Speaker 3: centrist within this group. I mean, I think what we like,
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  Speaker 3: first of all, Again, I just want to point out
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  Speaker 3: that Mark Meadows is just a gargantuan idiot. You know,
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  Speaker 3: I reached out to a very smart lawyer friend of
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  Speaker 3: all of ours who pointed out that usually you stonewall
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  Speaker 3: before you give the incriminating docs to the Congress people.
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  Speaker 3: But in this case.
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  Speaker 2: Such a good point.
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  Speaker 3: He gave over the incriminating docs and then kind of
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  Speaker 3: made it clear what he wasn't giving over. Then he stonewalled.
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  Speaker 1: Well, did our.
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  Speaker 3: You can't really do that.
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  Speaker 1: Did our lawyer friend, whoever you talked to, also bring
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  Speaker 1: up the fact that it's odd he.
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  Speaker 3: Schmeichel, Motley. Yeah, right.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I figured. That he claimed executive privilege
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  Speaker 1: over information that is currently being released in his brand
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  Speaker 1: new book.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was bad, too.
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  Speaker 2: A book that he included incriminating information in, to Tommy's point,
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  Speaker 2: because he was unaware of what was or was not incriminating.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 4: Because.
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  Speaker 2: Putting in your book that Trump got a positive test
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  Speaker 2: because he wanted to turn himself into a biological weapon
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  Speaker 2: to kill Joe Biden turned out to have been more
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  Speaker 2: incriminating than even Mike Meadows understood.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, Mark.
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  Speaker 1: Mark. Yeah. But really, who cares?
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  Speaker 3: Who gives a fuck?
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  Speaker 5: He's an idiot.
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  Speaker 1: He doesn't deserve the right first name.
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  Speaker 6: Right.
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  Speaker 3: The privilege claims that Mark Meadows is trying to assert
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  Speaker 3: here are undercut by him quoting Trump in his book.
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  Speaker 3: The other problem he has is that the former president's
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  Speaker 3: privilege claims are subordinate to the current president's privilege claims.
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  Speaker 3: And Joe Biden is saying, no, you don't have privilege.
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  Speaker 3: Also- The committee hasn't received any formal notification of an
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: invocation of privilege by Trump. So none of this has
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  Speaker 3: actually happened.
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  Speaker 2: I'll just make just one other point that I think
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  Speaker 2: is sometimes lost because it's a lot of legal nonsense.
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  Speaker 2: And none of us as a lawyer, we're not lawyers here.
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  Speaker 7: No.
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  Speaker 2: But I don't think you need to go to law
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  Speaker 2: school to understand that it's not privileged if it's a
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  Speaker 2: fucking crime, right? Privilege is not an ability for you
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  Speaker 2: to commit crimes out of the White House. Like, for example,
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  Speaker 2: trying to overturn American democracy. So- It's sort of beside
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  Speaker 2: the point, which I think is a point Jen Psaki
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  Speaker 2: makes at the podium a lot. And I think the
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  Speaker 2: reporters view it as kind of a talking point. Like,
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  Speaker 2: why are you worried about executive privilege in the future? Well,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: because we don't believe in doing a coup. And they
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  Speaker 2: view that as a talking point. But it's actually a
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  Speaker 2: good response. It's because of the crimes.
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  Speaker 1: Thinking about what's the most alarming information in here that
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: we've learned, there has been a lot of talk, especially
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: on Twitter, about the infamous PowerPoint from the Retired kernel,
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  Speaker 1: which is completely chilling. It's even more chilling to see
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  Speaker 1: it in a PowerPoint, which I can't even make at
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: this point. I don't know how to make a PowerPoint,
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  Speaker 1: but this kernel certainly did.
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  Speaker 2: How dare you use some of Microsoft's most famed and
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  Speaker 2: important work tools, productivity suites.
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  Speaker 1: It was very simple, very clean PowerPoint. Did you save.
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  Speaker 2: That to your drive, your online drive, you sons of bitches?
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  Speaker 3: John's a Prezi guy, yeah. More of a Keynote fan.
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  Speaker 1: What I'm focused on is... There were actual conversations with
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  Speaker 1: Republican state legislators to send their own slate of electors.
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  Speaker 1: They wanted to have Trump call these people. And the
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  Speaker 1: biggest threat we face in 24, I think, is still
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Republican state legislatures overturning the will of the voters and
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: sending their own slate of electors to Washington. And if
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  Speaker 1: there's a Republican Congress there, then that's that. And all
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: they have to do is say, oh, there was some
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  Speaker 1: kind of made up some kind of fraud. Let me
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: have a conspiracy conspiracy. Yeah, it was close, but the
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  Speaker 1: legislature got together and they're all pro-Trump people in the
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  Speaker 1: legislature and we decided to send our own slate of electors.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do think sometimes in this debate about what
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  Speaker 2: it takes to overturn a democracy, there's a confusion between
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  Speaker 2: what's needed and what's good to have. Like a DOJ
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  Speaker 2: that's willing to kind of stir the pot and join
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  Speaker 2: you in saying that elections are fraught, good to have.
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  Speaker 2: thousands of fucking hooligans standing outside the Capitol, good to have,
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  Speaker 2: but you don't need those things. If anything, they might
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  Speaker 2: have been counterproductive.
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  Speaker 1: Well, again, we're talking about what happened in January 6th,
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  Speaker 1: but remember, in 2024... Trump's not going to have the DOJ.
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  Speaker 1: He's not going to have a lot of, he's not
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: going to have the vice presidency, right? All these things
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  Speaker 1: we're talking about are in the past.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: I don't know, Merrick Garland's shifty, you know? You never
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: know where.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: He's going to, where's Merrick's bread buttered, you know?
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: But he is going to have these Republican state legislatures
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: and we better fucking hope that there are Democratic governors
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: and Democratic secretaries of state in place in these states.
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, also look, look, unlike the people who thought like
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: Bob Mueller was going to walk out of the, into
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: the Oval Office and lock Trump up. after his report
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: was issued. This is a political document that's really just
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: about telling a story of what happened. So I would
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: love to hear Mark Meadows comment on whether Trump was
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: watching footage of the insurrection live and cheering. I would
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: like to know why it took him so long to
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: put out a statement condemning the violence. I would like
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: to know what Mark Meadows was saying when he was
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: reportedly in constant contact with the Secretary of Defense's office
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: and why it took so long to send the National
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: Guard out. Also, Mark Meadows was clearly communicating on his
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: White House email, on his personal email, on his White
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: House phone, on his personal phone, Remember when that was
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  Speaker 3: a problem?
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: I almost didn't even bring it up because it is
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: a very overused... If any of you.
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  Speaker 3: Say butter emails, I'll punch you.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: In the fucking face. But it is pretty funny that
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: they're like, the committee said it had questions about why
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: Meadows used a person cell phone signal and two personal
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Gmail accounts. Yeah, no, it's down the list, I'm sure. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: you're wondering.
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  Speaker 3: But also, to your point, John, when he was briefed
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: on plans to get Republican state legislators to send alternate electors,
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: Meadows said he loved the idea and, quote, have a
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: team on it. What team?
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Was it the Willard crew?
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: Was it Giuliani in the gang?
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Was it Buddy Bannon?
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: Tell me.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Did you read this thing that on the War Room podcast,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Bannon and Matt Gaetz were talking about raising an army
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: of 4,000 shock troops to take on the government?
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: Did I read the thing about Steve's podcast?
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: You probably heard it.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: I listened to the episode.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: That's pretty alarming. Why didn't you tell us that when
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: you heard it? Was the context a little different?
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: I think the context is.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Is it T? Because it's unfair. It requires nuance.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: Because I'm trying to get books.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, they're going to do shock troops, but it's not.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Not as bad as it sounds.
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: What I think they're talking about. Here's what Steve Bannon
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: is doing.
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  Speaker 1: I did this on purpose.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Smartly and really well.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: They are using that show to motivate their audience to
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: go run for these like state election function commissions or
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: running for school boards. They are motivating and activating the
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: base to run for office, to get in these positions,
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: to have pieces of.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: So we need some shock troops for democracy.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: There we go. That's what we're going to get to
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: that later.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: There we go.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: Sure. All right, democracy. He heard what he said.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Speaking of your pal.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: We need white helmets.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: Oh my God.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: Look for democracy.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Steve Bannon's criminal contempt trial is scheduled for July 18th,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: which is pretty far away. Raises questions about the efficiency
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: and effectiveness of the 1-6 committee. What, if any, lessons
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: do you think Democrats can learn here from both the
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Mueller and impeachment investigations? Is this committee about the search
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: for a smoking gun, or is it just about Laying
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: out all the evidence, making sure the public knows the
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: full truth.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: It's a great question, John. I'd say one lesson from
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: the Mueller investigation is that Mueller got fucking worked by Barr,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: by Trump, by the process, just absolutely buffeted by events.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: One thing to take away from that experience, that four-page
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Barr memo totally worked. It was a total sham.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: It was a good, good memo.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: We should probably not let Barr put out a memo
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: about what the committee finds.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: That would be a mistake.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Well, I just like if we're working up to just
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: a committee report, I feel like, you know, we're probably
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: going to be a little like this is not going
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: to end in Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger and Adam Schiff, like,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: you know, going to Mar-a-Lago and throwing fucking cuffs on
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump. So that's not what's going to happen here.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: I think that I think that yes, I think that
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: this is a an important document that will help us
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: understand what actually happened. We are already learning a lot
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: because this committee exists. The conversation we're having now is
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: because this committee exists. But it will not fundamentally change
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: the politics in our country right now. And we do
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: not need more evidence to prove that the Republicans have
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: become an anti-democratic party. So any hope we have for
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: a message or making this important in the midterms, there's
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: no more information coming to help us do that.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: I think, unfortunately, the timeline is pretty standard. Bannon wants
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: to push it to October. The government wanted it in April.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: So they kind of met in the middle. Like the
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: justice system is just slow shit.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is always the concern about contempt charges.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, to your point, I think the
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: outcome is going to be political. It's a political document.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: It's about getting more evidence on the record in front
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: of voters. And I think the big weakness of the
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: Mueller probe, well, there were many, starting with Mueller running
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: it probably, but, you know, was letting Trump answer questions
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: in writing and not doing anything about him dangling these
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: pardons in front of people so that they would remain silent.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: And he can't do that here. But I think we
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: just have to figure out a way to understand his
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: mindset on January 6th and the days that led up
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: to it. and what coordination was going on with these
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: outside forces and kind of work from there.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: I think we, yeah. And I think to the extent possible,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: we have to treat all the evidence and everything we
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: hear during this, these committee hearings as just push it
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: to the future. This is about the guy that we're
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: talking about is the front runner for the Republican nomination
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: in 2024. And what this committee hopefully will, is going
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: to lay out here is that he has left a
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: trail of documents and evidence that is a how-to for
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: the next coup.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: So is this like when someone you don't want to
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: hang out with is like, let's do something Friday, and
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: you're like, no, no, no, no, I can't, but a
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: couple weeks?
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: A couple weeks is pushing it into the future. We're
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: screwing over future names. Future selves, yeah, that's what this is.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: And that's what the fucking PowerPoint is. It's scary that
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: that was floating around a couple years ago, but it's also,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: this is what they're going to do next time.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: Fringe becomes central quickly in the Trump orbit.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: They are going to use this as a document to learn.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: We should, too.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. We are still stuck, though, where we've been,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: which is I think we have all been previously radicalized
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: by this problem, right? This challenge of the authoritarian turn
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: in the Republican Party. This is more evidence to prove it.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: There is a set of steps we need to take
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: to protect ourselves. And the problem is we do not
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: have a majority in Congress to take those steps. And
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: that is going to be true indefinitely.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Well, so a big part of this conversation is, like
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: you said, about preventing the next coup. And a big
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: part of that is the midterms. Dan wrote a message
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: box over the weekend about whether Democrats should focus the
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: party's 2022 message on the Republican threat to democracy. What
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: do you guys think? Can that work? What does it
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: look like? What does it sound like?
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: So I think one of the challenges here is If
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: you ask people, Dan points this out, if you ask people,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: do you believe democracy is under attack? 56% say yes,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: American democracy is under attack. 37% say it's being tested.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: But then you dig into those numbers and what do
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: you find? People who approve Biden, only 42% say that.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: But 71% of people who disapprove of Biden say that. Republicans, 75%. Democrats, 46%. Independents, 50%.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: And if you blur your eyes, you see that same
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: thing over race, over gender, over education. which tells me
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: that a lot of this are Republicans who believe the
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: big lie and believe Biden being in power is our
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: democracy being under attack. And so I worry. So the
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: question is, what do we do? We have one year.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: We don't just have to make a case for why
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: people should care about this issue. We have to make
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: a case for this issue. We have to explain to
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: people that this issue is real and should be salient
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: and central to their vote. That's a lot to do.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: In a year.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: And I do think, look, I think the focus so
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: far and I understand it in many ways, has been
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: on a lot of these voting restrictions, on standing in
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: line and having water and food while you're standing in line,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: stuff like that. That's what got the most headlines. And
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: obviously those restrictions are, you know, odious, right? But there
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: hasn't been enough focus on election subversion, and not just
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: election subversion in 2020, but election subversion in 2024. And
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: I think that has to be central to whatever democratic
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: message there is about the threat to democracy. And I
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: don't think it's been central to the message up until
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: this point.
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: I like this Dan guy. I think he's going places.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: He's a smart guy.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: But I think he makes a good point that you
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: want to run on a big message. It's got to
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: be big. It's got to be inspiring and motivating. I
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: am caught on the part like he is where you
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: ask voters or voters say to you, okay, what are
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: you going to do about it? And we have very
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: little to point to. And that's hard. What I'm wondering is, uh,
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: is if there could be maybe in Congress somewhere, some
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: sort of bipartisan path to create a bill that's much
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: more narrow and tailored. It is just about election subversion.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: I don't know what that looks like exactly. I'm almost
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: certain that that bill would not include, uh, the stuff
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: we want in it to prevent voter suppression and other
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: anti-democratic policies that we all hate, that we've all talked
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: about that are all very important to all of us.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: But You have to find a way to prevent radicalized
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: state legislatures in places like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and, you know,
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: name the swing states from just overturning the results of
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: an election and just sending a different set of electors
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: than the people voted for.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: For sure. And I think, you know, I think we
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: talked about this a couple episodes ago, but I think
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: the bipartisan commission here, maybe one result of this that
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: they're heading towards is to reform the Electoral Count Act.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: And so they take care of from the federal level
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: in Congress. They try to do reforms to prevent this
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: from happening. And maybe you get more bipartisan support for that. Certainly,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: you start with like Liz Cheney and Kinzinger being on board.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: See what you can get in the Senate. And it's
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: like you said, Tommy, it's just narrow. It's not about
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: the other voting rights stuff at all. And then if
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: someone came to me and said, what do we do
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: about the alternate slate of electors thing? I would say
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: make sure that Tony Evers and Gretchen Whitmer and Tom
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: Wolfe are reelected and make sure Stacey Abrams wins in
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Georgia and whoever we nominate in Arizona. That is the
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: best way to prevent election subversion in 2024 is the
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: 2022 elections for secretaries of state and governors in the
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: swing states.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is not a politically smart thing to say
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: in terms of how you would message what we need
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: to do in 2022. It's not very inspiring. It's not
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: very helpful. The most important thing a Democrat can do
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: is not be a Republican and have this power. And
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: we need Democrats to be in power to prevent them
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: from using their power. It's one thing I said before,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: and I still believe if these people no longer believe
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: in democratic institutions and following the letter of the law
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: of believing in the results of elections, they don't win.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter what we write down before they take power.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: If they're in power, they will do what they want.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: People need to know how radical these Republican state legislators are.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: In Wisconsin, they're trying to... Ron Johnson, the senator from Wisconsin, Republican,
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: is urging the GOP legislature in the state to take
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: full control of federal elections. So they want to get
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: rid of a bipartisan... Wisconsin Elections Commission that Republicans created
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: five years ago. They're throwing out their own project. And
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: then there's a Trump-loving sheriff in Racine County, the fifth
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: largest county in Wisconsin, this guy named Christopher Schmeling. He's
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: recommending felony charges against five state election commissioners because the
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: commissioners at the height of the pandemic told the Board
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: of Elections not to send trained poll workers into nursing
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: homes because Because they didn't want to kill senior citizens.
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: That's how radical these people are. It's Looney Tunes.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Look, I am as guilty of this as anyone, but
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: when we talk about this threat, we talk about protecting
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: democracy and subversion. And we use these words that I
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: think are sort of esoteric to a lot of people.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: These people, these Republican elected officials, don't want to respect
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: the will of the voters. If you let them take power,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: they will not give you a chance to vote them
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: out of power. That's what this is about. It is about...
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: You think you have a voice now? You think you
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: get to control your government? You get to have a
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: say in who gets elected? You put these people in power,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: you no longer get that say. That's it.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: And I think that's right. And I think the question is,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: what is the context you put that in? And I
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: think sometimes what we need to, I wonder if the
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: way to square the circle between this being probably the
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: biggest threat we face as a country and the fact
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: that right now it just simply isn't evident in the
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: polling that enough Democrats and independents see the same way.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: It's that Republicans aren't dangerous and radical because they oppose democracy.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: They oppose democracy because they're dangerous and radical. And it
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: is part of a larger philosophy, a larger radical agenda
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: that has taken hold. And I think finding a way
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: through that to me, I don't know the answer, but
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: I think that's the direction.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: Again, I like this Dan guy.
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: Look, I think.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: He's going places.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Look, look, Dan is a very smart guy.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: He's very smart.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: All right, we really respect Dan here. He's going places.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: The Monday pod... There is no podcaster we love more
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: on the Monday Pod than Thursday Dan. Some of my
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: best opinions are Thursday Dan opinions.
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: Remixed with some jokes.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Remixed with a joke.
• 21:17
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: What about something like Trump's smash and grab? He's trying
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: to do to democracy what that gang did to the
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Nordstroms at the Grove.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: No. Oh, no.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
• 21:28
  Speaker 6: Huh?
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: No.
• 21:29
  Speaker 6: It'll do it.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: It'll do it. It'll do it.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Let's see what the only party interested in democratic governance
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: is up to. The world's two most powerful Joes chatted
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: on the phone Monday about what it will take for
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Biden to get Manchin's vote on his Build Back Better bill.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: The senator's office released a statement saying the conversation was, quote,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: productive and that the two will keep talking. But that's
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: all we got for now at the time of recording.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Manchin has a list of incredibly annoying concerns about the legislation,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: as he does. But his biggest is the cost, because
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: even though the bill only funds most programs for a
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: few years, Manchin for some reason believes that a future
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Congress and future president will extend the programs and for
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: some reason asked Lindsey Graham to get a score from
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: the Congressional Budget Office. for how much that would cost.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Here's what happened.
• 22:21
  Speaker 8: And you know why I wrote a letter to CBO?
• 22:23
  Speaker 8: Because Joe Manchin came to me and he said, I
• 22:26
  Speaker 8: think this bill is full of gimmicks, that these programs
• 22:29
  Speaker 8: won't go away, Lindsey. And if you score them for
• 22:32
  Speaker 8: 10 years, I think the bill will double. Well, it
• 22:34
  Speaker 8: didn't double. It was almost two.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: And a half times.
• 22:36
  Speaker 8: So I hope that this will be a showstopper for
• 22:39
  Speaker 8: Build Back Better.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Thanks, Joe. Thanks, Lindsey. Appreciate all of your help and
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: all of your hard work. So it's... So the CBO
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: did this score of an imaginary bill that doesn't exist,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: and they found it adds a whole bunch of money
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: to the deficit because when they put the current real
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: bill together, they only paid for the programs that were
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: in the bill for the years that they decided to
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: extend those programs to, which were not 10 years.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Come on, Joe. You know we don't like it when
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: you hang around with that bad crowd. You spend too
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: much time with Lindsey Graham, next thing you know you're
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: cutting spending and f * * * ing.
• 23:19
  Speaker 6: I think.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Cut that.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Anyway, I don't know what you just heard, but... What's
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: the Democrats' argument as to why the bill doesn't include
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: what Manchin has called gimmicks?
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: John, question? Parliamentary inquiry?
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Yes. Senator from Massachusetts.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: Shouldn't Joe Manchin know better than almost anyone... That it
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: doesn't look likely that the Democrats will be able to
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: extend all of these programs for a decade because odds
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: are they're going to get fucking wiped out in the
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: midterms because Joe is pissing away time and making us
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: look like idiots.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Or or Tommy, I'll give you the most hopeful scenario
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: that the Democrats continue to hold on to the House
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: and hold on to the Senate and Joe Biden as president.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: And then guess who has a say as to whether
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: the programs get extended without being paid for?
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: Joe Manchin.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Joe Manchin.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: Also.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Joe Manchin has a say.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: We could just raise taxes on rich people.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: That's another thing that we could do.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Something he's for. Raise taxes.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Something that he's for. That's a cinema. I know that
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Kyrsten Sinema has a fucking problem with it. That's a
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: cinema problem. But whatever. There's always more fucking.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: But it's not his problem.
• 24:25
  Speaker 6: It's not his problem.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: When he has a pay for.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: There's just sometimes he's like an observer of politics. And
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: it's like he's not. He has no agency in his
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: own mind.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the gimmicks thing is really wild to me because
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: I just don't under, for exactly the point that you raised, Tommy,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: and also even in an event of democratic control, Joe
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Manchin can stop this. So I don't understand it.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Stop being fucking coy, man. All right, you don't want,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: you don't just want it to be a deficit neutral.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: You want it to be deficit neutral without some of
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: these ways of sunsetting or having them come in later
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: to kind of reduce the cost over 10 years. Fine, fine.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: That's what you want. How about tell people? before this meeting,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: or maybe you have, or maybe you haven't pushed hard enough.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: He's definitely said it a bunch of times, but he
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: does the things where he like, he like mumbles it
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: to reporters in the hallway. Like I'm sad about the program.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: Just like if, if that's a deal breaker for you, great.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Why are we, why is it coming out through a
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: press statement after your call with Joe, Joe Biden? Now
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: we've been doing this for months. Those gimmicks have been
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: there for enough.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: A lot of.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Democrats who are more progressive don't like these gimmicks. They
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: would like some, there's a real genuine debate over whether
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: or not it should just be three programs fully funded,
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: built to last and made exactly how Democrats would like
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: them versus having more programs that maybe have sunsets or
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: provisions that make them less generous. Fine, have that debate,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: but wrap it up here.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Well, Jonathan Chait wrote a piece about all this where
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: he basically said, like we did, Joe Manchin's concerns, the
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: way he lays them out are unreasonable. But like you said, Lovett,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of Democrats have said, okay, one of the
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: programs here is universal pre-K and And it's not really
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: going to be universal because 40% of states that are
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: controlled by Republicans are going to say, fuck no, we
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: don't want the funds for universal pre-K because they're awful people,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: much like they did with the Medicaid expansion under the
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Affordable Care Act. Why would we want children to learn?
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Why would we want children to learn? Why would we
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: want poor people to have health care? That's exactly, that's
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: their stance on that. So as opposed to this program
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: that's going to sunset after four years, it's going to
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: go away after four years, and it's not going to
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: go to everyone that it should go to. why not
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: fully fund for 10 years, the child tax credit that's,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: you know, which is about to expire at the end
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: of this year that could, you know, reduce child poverty
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: in half.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: Why not?
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: And then if the one, one exception to all this,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: by the way, is the climate provisions are funded for
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: 10 years. That's, I think one of the only provisions
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: that are everything else is going to be, or most
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: other programs are four years. So there, look, if, if
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: the result of this is that Democrats pick three or
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: four programs to fully fund for 10 years. And even
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: if Republicans take over, we have these really important programs
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: that help people that are, that last for 10 years, then,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe that's a good thing. But I don't
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: know that that's, I don't know if that's the chess
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: that Manchin's playing.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Well, it's, it's just so like, there's never been like
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: a red, like he keeps drawing, he draws these sort
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: of soft red lines all the time.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: Like Obama?
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Here you go.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Trying to lead from behind.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: And, uh, It wasn't even a joke attached to leave
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: from behind. You can just say it now. Yeah, it's
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: just a different thing that triggers me. It's a joke
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: in itself.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: I almost said it when I was kind of hoping
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: that Ben would be on the losing team for that
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: game we played at one year so that I could
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: say he was leading from behind.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: That would have been great.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: But there's too much space between what I was next
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: on the stage there.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: How important is it to get this thing passed by
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: the end of the year? Chuck Schumer, on Monday, reiterated again,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: we're going to get this thing done by Christmas. That
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: guy is hopeful, huh?
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: In some sense, I guess it's not important. You could easily,
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: you could pass it next year. In another sense, it's
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: hard to not feel like this thing is slowly dying, uh,
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: death by a thousand Joe Manchin press avails.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Sooner the better.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: And no one's making a good case for it. Like
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: progressives are angry. It doesn't do enough. Moderates are scared
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: because that's how they roll. Blue state Democrats are talking
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: about salt deductions because that's what they're focused on. The
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: country is focused on inflation. I mean, so it doesn't,
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: it doesn't feel good to let it languish.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: No, I think, uh, sooner is better. Uh, The State
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: of the Union is the last step. It's not done
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: by the State of the Union.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: Optimistic case. We're absolutely fucked. Optimistic case. Gas prices are
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: going down. Supply chain disruptions are lessening.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Omicron disappears.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: Omicron, never heard of it. Don't even know what you're
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: talking about. We all warm ourselves all winter by burning masks.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: We're in a better place in February. Pass this sucker immediately.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Well, that's very optimistic. You agree with me.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: The State of the Union is the best one.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he could.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: That's true. That's good.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Or the State of the Union is his, you know,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: he's got a national audience and he, you know, really,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: really sticks it to Congress during the State of the Union.
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: Or if Manchin just comes up and delivers it.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, he might as well. He might as well
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: sit behind him.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Look, I wonder what other opportunities he has to speak
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: to the country, but speaking to the country at the
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: State of the Union, it is his last chance in 2022,
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: barring Oval Office addresses, to really make a case for
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: his successful agenda.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Now, would I like him to use that speech to
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: make his case for voting rights legislation and have already
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: gotten Build Back Better passed?
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: That would be ideal. But I understand that barring that,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: love it. That's the best way to use it. Before
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: we move on to our special segment on the future
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: of Roe v. Wade, we did want to do a
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: quick check in on the biggest live tour of the year.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Something to think about for your last minute holiday shopping.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: A night with Donald Trump and Bill O'Reilly.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: Look out, BTS. Coming for you.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: On Saturday night, the disgraced former president and disgraced former
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Fox News personality launched their tour where else but Florida,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: where the Sun Sentinel reported that, quote, many seats remained
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: empty in the cavernous arena and, quote, the top level.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: was closed off with ticket holders up there upgraded to
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: the lower bowl. Here's some of what these lucky MAGA
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: fans heard.
• 29:46
  Speaker 6: The ones I did the best with were the tyrants.
• 29:49
  Speaker 6: And they all say, oh, he loves tyrants. He wants
• 29:53
  Speaker 6: to be a tyrant now. I just, for whatever reason,
• 29:56
  Speaker 6: I got along great with Putin. I got along great
• 29:58
  Speaker 6: with President Xi of China. I got along great with
• 30:02
  Speaker 6: Kim Jong-un of North Korea.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: And isn't that good?
• 30:06
  Speaker 7: Isn't that better than having a nuclear war?
• 30:08
  Speaker 6: I did. I got along great with him.
• 30:10
  Speaker 7: I liked him.
• 30:10
  Speaker 6: He liked me. He wrote me beautiful letters. He wrote
• 30:13
  Speaker 6: me beautiful letters.
• 30:14
  Speaker 7: I called them love letters.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: What about it, Worldo? Isn't that better than having a war?
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sure. Sure, Don. Sure, it's better.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: That sounds like a good time. Wouldn't you want to
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: get a ticket to that?
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: Those two.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: A night with Donald Trump and Bill O'Reilly. She said screaming.
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: Remember that Politico reported that Trump and O'Reilly were having
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: a hard time selling tickets to this event. And O'Reilly
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: said the following to the Politico reporter. You put one
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: word in there that's not true. I'll sue your ass off.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: You can quote me on that. You're just a hatchet man.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: And that's what you are. And then it was half empty.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Even more alarming in the Sun Sentinel report of this
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: from the event is when Trump suggested that new libel
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: laws would help rein in the media, O'Reilly replied, quote,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: that's better than my solution, which is a machine gun.
• 31:03
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah. That was in the same edition of Politico playbook
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: where they suggested that Kamala Harris was sort of uncouth
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: for criticizing her own press coverage, sort of adjacent to
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: the machine gun.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: How long do you think?
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Very similar. Very similar.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: How long do you think until Trump blames the lack
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: of attendance fully on O'Reilly and does so publicly?
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't think about that. That's a good plot twist.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: I did it as a favor for Bill. I shouldn't
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: have done it.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: He doesn't have the same juice that he had. I'm
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: too nice.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: Look, that guy got fired. I don't remember what happened.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Maybe it was unfair. Maybe it was unfair, but it happened.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: It happened. Maybe it was unfair. They say it was unfair.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Some people say it wasn't unfair.
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: I'm too nice.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: He got a falafel and a loofah confused. Google that
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: one if you don't know. Here's a new theory. O'Reilly's
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: a big war on Christmas guy. So he's just going
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: out on the road to kind of gather up the
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: troops together for one last... run at the king.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Do we think do we read anything into the into
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: the small crowd size or is this just fun to
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: talk about with the i think it's i think it's
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: early it's it's it's you know trump trump says he's
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: gonna run for president again he's gonna start filling the
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: he's just normally.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: You don't pay to hear i mean the reason he
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: had to overturn democracy is not he's not a nationally
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: popular figure he has a.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Very dedicated minority of voters you don't do it you
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: don't do it because you got you're popular he's not
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: popular that is his big problem So after you get
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: your tickets to Lovett's show in San Francisco, get your
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: tickets to the O'Reilly Trump show. Tell us which one's better.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: My understanding is that there are hundreds of tickets still available.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Not for my show.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Lovett's show is almost sold out.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Look at Lovett's sold out. Lovett's sold out.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: Talking about Bill O'Reilly. I'm talking about the main event,
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: not the undercard. The undercard.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: The undercard. I'm as surprised to be here as you are.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Fire my agents.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Let's go.
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: Just wandered out there.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: What the fuck? On Friday, the Supreme Court refused to
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: block a law in Texas that bans most abortions after
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: about six weeks and allows private citizens to sue anyone
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: who helps a Texas resident obtain an illegal abortion. The
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: court is also considering a case in Mississippi that seeks
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: to ban abortion after 15 weeks, but could result in
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: the court effectively striking down Roe v.
• 33:15
  Speaker 6: Wade.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: We wanted to better understand how abortion rights in the U.S.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: have eroded to this point and how the law in
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Texas is already rippling through communities. So we sat down
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: with people on the front lines of this fight to
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: find out. Take a listen.
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: Look, I mean, there's no question Roe is hanging on
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: by a thread right now. We've seen over the last
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: year alone, 600 new restrictions introduced in state legislatures, 90
• 33:47
  Speaker 5: of them bans have been enacted. And, you know, in
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: addition to Mississippi, we have a very problematic ban that
• 33:57
  Speaker 5: was signed into law in Texas, SB 8.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: That's Alexis McGill-Johnson, president of Planned Parenthood Action Fund. She's
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: one of several people I spoke to this year about
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: the fragile status of abortion rights under the most right-wing
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court of our lifetimes. How did we get to
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: this point? Is this a story all about the right
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: prioritizing the judiciary, or is there more to it?
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: It's a story about the right prioritizing power building in
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: the states, the impact of the 2010 elections. on what
• 34:28
  Speaker 5: happened not just to our Congress, but also to state
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: legislative houses across the country.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Republicans have been trying to cripple Roe ever since it
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: passed almost 50 years ago. But 2010 was a watershed moment.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Republicans won 54 state legislative chambers around the country. And
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: then state lawmakers passed a bunch of restrictions on abortion
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: providers and abortion access. They also redrew electoral maps so
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: that they could more easily stay in power.
• 34:56
  Speaker 5: The gerrymandering that ensued has essentially been a power grab
• 35:01
  Speaker 5: that has allowed a very small, vocal minority who opposes
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: access to abortion, who also oppose access to voting rights,
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: to trans care and other things, to hold these levers
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: of power. And I think what's really important to understand
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: is that 80% of Americans believe that Roe should be
• 35:20
  Speaker 5: the law land.
• 35:21
  Speaker 9: The reality is, that I see on the ground when
• 35:24
  Speaker 9: I hear from people who are seeking abortions is that
• 35:28
  Speaker 9: they're confused about which laws are in effect and which
• 35:31
  Speaker 9: ones are not.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Renee Bracey Sherman is an abortion activist and the founder
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: of We Testify, an organization focused on elevating the voices
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: of people who have abortions.
• 35:40
  Speaker 9: And that was the goal of the anti-abortion movement to
• 35:42
  Speaker 9: begin with. They have said time and time again that
• 35:46
  Speaker 9: their goal is to make abortion unthinkable. So they're getting
• 35:50
  Speaker 9: to that point where they've created this labyrinth and confusing
• 35:56
  Speaker 9: maze of restrictions where people don't even think that they
• 35:59
  Speaker 9: can get an abortion.
• 36:00
  Speaker 10: So they just try to figure out, what else do
• 36:03
  Speaker 10: I do?
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: The law was initially quite clear in 1973, right after
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Roe v. Wade was passed. But a few years later,
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Congress passed a law called the Hyde Amendment.
• 36:13
  Speaker 9: Which meant that people who are on Medicaid aren't actually
• 36:18
  Speaker 9: able to use their health insurance to pay for an abortion,
• 36:22
  Speaker 9: with the exception of some very narrow.
• 36:25
  Speaker 10: Situations, right? We've actually just seen cracks in access ever since.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: The cracks really gave way last year when Supreme Court
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg died and was replaced with Amy
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: Coney Barrett, moving the court's conservative majority very far to
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: the right. The state of Mississippi then filed a challenge
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: to Roe v. Wade, Opening arguments in that case were
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: heard earlier this month, and we likely won't get a
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: verdict until June. But if the justices side with Mississippi
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: and refuse to protect federal abortion rights, we'll first look
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: to Congress and then to state houses across the country
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: to keep abortion legal at the state level. And that's
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: unlikely to happen given Republican control of so many state
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: houses and a divided Congress. Again, Alexis McGill-Johnson from Planned Parenthood.
• 37:14
  Speaker 5: It means that 25 million women will be living in
• 37:17
  Speaker 5: roughly 26 states where they won't have access to an
• 37:20
  Speaker 5: abortion provider. It means they will have to get in cars, planes, trains, automobiles,
• 37:25
  Speaker 5: because what's not going to happen is people not seeking access.
• 37:30
  Speaker 5: What's going to happen is people will be traveling stream
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: lengths to get.
• 37:35
  Speaker 7: Access to safe abortion.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Going out of state can be really difficult for a
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: lot of people. Odile Shalit runs the Bridget Alliance, which
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: was started out of the need to help people travel
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: long distances to seek reproductive care.
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: So, I mean, the Bridget Alliance was founded through the
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: recognition that travel is and is now becoming one of
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: the largest barriers to access, and specifically to abortion access.
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: We have, to date, I believe, helped people travel from
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: about 42 different states. and I think an average of 1,000 miles.
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: Our clients are mostly folks who are working to make
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: ends meet. They are young people. They're people who live
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: in rural communities. They are Black, they are Indigenous, and
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: they are.
• 38:25
  Speaker 10: People of color.
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: They're parents of one or more children. They range in
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: age from anywhere from 11 years old to 49 years old,
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: from the time that we connect with a client to
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: the time that they're supposed to travel and leave their home,
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: many different things can occur. Their funding for their procedure
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: may not come through. Their escort may change their mind
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: and decide not to travel with them. Their parent or
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: friend who said they were going to provide child care
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: may change their mind. A winter storm may come through,
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: making it impossible to drive And especially because the brakes
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: aren't working well on their car.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: And some states require patients to make multiple visits over
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: several days before they can get care.
• 39:21
  Speaker 11: It was like ridiculous to me that I had to
• 39:24
  Speaker 11: jump through like three days of hoops and stress and misinformation.
• 39:30
  Speaker 11: for a procedure that took like 10 to 15 minutes.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: Stephanie Gomez lives in Texas, which has some of the
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: strictest anti-abortion laws on the books. She had an abortion
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: several years ago.
• 39:40
  Speaker 11: I was within an hour and a half of the
• 39:42
  Speaker 11: clinic as opposed to other people in Texas that don't
• 39:45
  Speaker 11: have a clinic within 500 miles of them.
• 39:49
  Speaker 7: Once I got to the clinic, there were still a
• 39:51
  Speaker 7: couple of barriers.
• 39:52
  Speaker 11: Like, I did not know that I was going to
• 39:54
  Speaker 11: have to make multiple trips to the clinic, which threw
• 39:57
  Speaker 11: another wrench in it because I have to skip school
• 39:59
  Speaker 11: again and figure out how my mom is not going
• 40:01
  Speaker 11: to find that out. I have to figure out transportation again.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: Stephanie says it was ultimately a choice that put her
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: on the right path.
• 40:07
  Speaker 11: I definitely wouldn't be where I am now. Like, I
• 40:10
  Speaker 11: wouldn't have been able to get, like, mental help. I
• 40:14
  Speaker 11: would not have been able to leave that relationship. I.
• 40:20
  Speaker 11: I wouldn't be like working my dream job. And I wouldn't,
• 40:23
  Speaker 11: you know, I think I wouldn't be like who I
• 40:26
  Speaker 11: am right now. And I don't think that I would
• 40:28
  Speaker 11: have this sense of self. And, you know, I talk
• 40:32
  Speaker 11: about the first time I got an abortion was really
• 40:34
  Speaker 11: the first time that I stood up to these systems
• 40:37
  Speaker 11: that try to tell me who I should be.
• 40:39
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 40:39
  Speaker 11: Like back then as a young Latinx woman and, you know,
• 40:43
  Speaker 11: still people try to tell me how I should feel
• 40:45
  Speaker 11: about my abortion and like, oh, you shouldn't be so
• 40:47
  Speaker 11: loud about it.
• 40:48
  Speaker 7: You shouldn't be so happy.
• 40:49
  Speaker 11: And I'm like, no. It was a moment of empowerment.
• 40:51
  Speaker 11: And it was a moment of me saying, like, you know,
• 40:53
  Speaker 11: I don't know if I can cuss, but like.
• 40:55
  Speaker 7: Fuck all y'all. Like, you don't.
• 40:57
  Speaker 11: It was the first time that I, like, Steph Gomez
• 40:59
  Speaker 11: made a decision for Steph Gomez.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: Like Mississippi, Stephanie's home state of Texas has also sought
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: to test the Supreme Court. The legislature passed a law
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: over the summer called SB-8, which banned abortions after six weeks.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: That's often before people know they're pregnant. The law also
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: incentivized private citizens to turn in people who seek out
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: an abortion, creating a bounty system with a $ 10, 000 reward.
• 41:24
  Speaker 7: Patients are just numb and they're just shut down.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: That's Amy Hagstrom Miller. Her team at Whole Women's Health
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Clinics in Texas was helping patients up until 11.56 p.m.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: on August 31st, minutes before SB8 went into effect. She's
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: seen firsthand how SB8 has affected both patients and staff alike.
• 41:44
  Speaker 12: Even though they heard about SB8 on the news and
• 41:46
  Speaker 12: they learned about it from our website and they hear
• 41:49
  Speaker 12: about it again on the phone and they hear about
• 41:51
  Speaker 12: it when they check in, by the time they actually
• 41:54
  Speaker 12: get the news that they might be too far into
• 41:56
  Speaker 12: the pregnancy for an abortion in Texas, they're devastated. It's
• 42:01
  Speaker 12: almost like they're experiencing it, almost like they're sentenced to
• 42:05
  Speaker 12: be forced.
• 42:05
  Speaker 7: To continue a pregnancy.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: SB8 went into effect on September 1st, forcing people to
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: scramble before the deadline. Katie Volkova told us about their
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: experience trying to get an abortion in time.
• 42:16
  Speaker 13: Like literally days before SB8 went into effect, I found
• 42:20
  Speaker 13: out that I was pregnant and I already knew like
• 42:23
  Speaker 13: all the clinics in Texas were fully booked up until
• 42:27
  Speaker 13: September 1st. And I did like the math and I
• 42:31
  Speaker 13: definitely was like on that cusp. five to six weeks,
• 42:35
  Speaker 13: so definitely time was really of the essence and I.
• 42:38
  Speaker 10: Knew that if I had to wait.
• 42:41
  Speaker 13: Past September 1st to get an appointment, I probably wouldn't
• 42:44
  Speaker 13: have been able to get an abortion in-state and I'd
• 42:47
  Speaker 13: have to travel elsewhere.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: KT also volunteers with an abortion fund in Texas, so
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: they've been pretty familiar with abortion restrictions for a while now. Still,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: KT says that SB8 feels inconceivable.
• 43:00
  Speaker 14: There's like constant like battles that we're having to face.
• 43:06
  Speaker 14: And it's like, I understand that a lot of people
• 43:08
  Speaker 14: like call like everybody in Texas right now resilient, but
• 43:11
  Speaker 14: like we shouldn't have to be resilient. Like this should
• 43:14
  Speaker 14: literally should not be happening. And I never thought in
• 43:16
  Speaker 14: my lifetime I would see or have to deal with
• 43:20
  Speaker 14: or like live in something like this.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Amy says the law has also led to more threats
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: and intimidation against her staff.
• 43:30
  Speaker 7: The opposition likes that people are confused, likes that people.
• 43:33
  Speaker 12: Are scared, is sort of preying upon that environment, you know,
• 43:38
  Speaker 12: of threats of lawsuits or actual lawsuits in order to
• 43:42
  Speaker 12: really bring the care environment and the service community to
• 43:46
  Speaker 12: a stop.
• 43:48
  Speaker 7: You know, we've gone through this process of like, who's
• 43:50
  Speaker 7: going to back us up?
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Amy Hagstrom Miller actually has experience defending abortion rights at
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: the Supreme Court after her clinics won the Whole Women's
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: Health versus Hellerstedt case in 2016. But things are different
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: today than they were back then.
• 44:03
  Speaker 12: This Mississippi case is not going in front of the
• 44:06
  Speaker 12: same court that the Whole Woman's Health case went in
• 44:08
  Speaker 12: front of in 2016. Our court is completely different than
• 44:12
  Speaker 12: it was then, and that was very much by design
• 44:14
  Speaker 12: by the former president. And I think the national attention,
• 44:19
  Speaker 12: I hope, is really putting this court under a microscope.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: Vice President Kamala Harris invited Amy to the White House
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: after Texas passed their six-week ban.
• 44:27
  Speaker 12: It's my understanding it's the first time in 25 years
• 44:30
  Speaker 12: that an abortion provider has been invited to the White House.
• 44:33
  Speaker 7: But I do think it's important for us.
• 44:34
  Speaker 12: To remember that the majority of people aren't represented by
• 44:38
  Speaker 12: this current Supreme Court. And there's three bodies of government,
• 44:43
  Speaker 12: the executive branch and the congressional branch, for a reason.
• 44:47
  Speaker 12: And if we can't get relief from the courts, we
• 44:49
  Speaker 12: need to look at Congress and we need to look
• 44:51
  Speaker 12: at the executive branch. And so I'm encouraged by her
• 44:55
  Speaker 12: making that statement.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: I asked Alexis McGill-Johnson what the White House can and
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: should do about it.
• 45:01
  Speaker 7: I think that the.
• 45:02
  Speaker 5: Bully pulpit, right, is one of the main levers the
• 45:05
  Speaker 5: White House has. And so to see the administration speak
• 45:10
  Speaker 5: more clearly about the need to codify Roe, to speak
• 45:14
  Speaker 5: more clearly and explicitly about the impact of not having
• 45:18
  Speaker 5: abortion access, who it will impact, is largely going to
• 45:22
  Speaker 5: be BIPOC communities, low-income communities in the South and the Midwest,
• 45:26
  Speaker 5: and to help normalize the experience. One in four women
• 45:30
  Speaker 5: will have an.
• 45:31
  Speaker 7: Abortion in their lifetime.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: Some Democratic politicians and strategists in certain states and communities
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: have traditionally seen abortion rights as a politically challenging issue.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: You mentioned sort of where the public is on this,
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: that there's no state where there's not a majority of
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: citizens who support abortion access. What's the most effective messaging
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: that for Democrats in more conservative states and districts who
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: do want to stand up for abortion rights, but maybe
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: a little skittish?
• 45:58
  Speaker 5: Look, I think the first thing I do is actually
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: point them to the impact of, let's say, the Women's
• 46:04
  Speaker 5: March in 2016 on the 2018 midterm elections, where we
• 46:08
  Speaker 5: got the first pro-choice majority house ever, like the energy
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: of support that came there. We saw abortion take place
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: front and center in Kentucky and Virginia in 2019. We
• 46:20
  Speaker 5: also were able to deliver state houses and governors in
• 46:23
  Speaker 5: those races precisely because we were having proactive conversations around
• 46:28
  Speaker 5: why legislators shouldn't be making this decision for women, right?
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: That we actually, if you trust women to make these decisions,
• 46:34
  Speaker 5: you trust them to actually control their bodies, that that
• 46:38
  Speaker 5: actually is also a selling point. And I look at
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: 2020 and I talk about Senator Peters, right?
• 46:43
  Speaker 7: Gary Peters in Michigan, who.
• 46:46
  Speaker 5: was neck and neck, if not behind, in his race
• 46:49
  Speaker 5: before he told his family's abortion story and a later
• 46:51
  Speaker 5: term abortion story. And the number of supporters that he
• 46:56
  Speaker 5: reached after doing that, the donations that came in, because
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: people really connected to the, you know, the personal being
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: the political.
• 47:06
  Speaker 9: There's nothing more beautiful than when someone says, I had
• 47:10
  Speaker 9: an abortion and that person listening dies. gives them a
• 47:13
  Speaker 9: hug or says, I.
• 47:15
  Speaker 10: Had an abortion too.
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: Again, Renee Bracey Sherman.
• 47:18
  Speaker 9: That connection allows people to realize how common it is
• 47:22
  Speaker 9: and get the support that they need.
• 47:23
  Speaker 10: And it's just beautiful and magical.
• 47:27
  Speaker 9: So I hope that anyone listening who's had an abortion
• 47:30
  Speaker 9: and wants to share their story, like talk about it.
• 47:33
  Speaker 9: Talk about it with your loved ones. You'll be surprised
• 47:37
  Speaker 9: to hear how many stories you receive back.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: Odile Shalit also told me about the power of talking
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: about abortion and how it can lead to meaningful change.
• 47:45
  Speaker 10: You can also talk about us.
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: Please, if you listen to this podcast, go share it
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: with five other people. Invite it into your dinner table conversation.
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: Believe me, I am like, somehow my friends still love
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: me and invite me to dinner parties. I am that
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: person who comes in and I talk about this and
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: they're grateful for it too. And we've expanded our dialogue.
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: So I ask that folks talk about it, share this.
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: And if you have fears about this or discomfort around abortion,
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: around abortion later in pregnancy, talk about that too. And
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: these conversations will help you and will help.
• 48:23
  Speaker 5: All of us.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: As we stare down the biggest threat ever to Roe v. Wade,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: activists like Renee and Odile are preparing for the future
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: of limited abortion access.
• 48:33
  Speaker 9: Should the Supreme Court decide to gut abortion access? I
• 48:37
  Speaker 9: hope that everyone will know the phone number to their
• 48:40
  Speaker 9: local abortion fund. I hope that everyone will know the
• 48:45
  Speaker 9: phone number and look up the Repro Legal Defense Fund.
• 48:51
  Speaker 9: It's housed over at our friends at If, When, How.
• 48:55
  Speaker 9: Because the thing is, is that it's not just people
• 48:57
  Speaker 9: who have abortions. It's going to be people who maybe
• 49:00
  Speaker 9: experience pregnancy complications, have miscarriages too.
• 49:03
  Speaker 10: Any one of us can be caught up in that.
• 49:06
  Speaker 9: The criminalization of pregnancy and the criminalization of abortion.
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: How are we going to do this when the number
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: of people who need our support.
• 49:15
  Speaker 10: Explodes?
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: I'm hopeful that Bridget Alliance and our partners are going
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: to get the support that we need, the donations that
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: we need to continue to provide our care and to
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: grow our services, because I really believe in the strength
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: of this community and how much we've been holding already.
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: But I would be remiss in not stating that this
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: community has been holding so much for so long and
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: largely by unpaid volunteers. And I hope that Bridget and
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: others are able to continue to get that support so
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: we can continue to be here. So this service, this
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: community that we operate within can work.
• 49:58
  Speaker 10: It can, at least for now.
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: Fill the gap that exists here between someone and their
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: right to an abortion. Whatever the Supreme Court rules is,
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: The Bridget Alliance will still be here to help our clients.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: You can find abortion funds and organizations at www.abortionfunds.org. Special
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: thanks to Renee Bracey-Sherman, Alexis McGill-Johnson, Stephanie Gomez, Amy Hagstrom-Miller,
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: Katie Volkova, and Odile Shalit for sitting down with us.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: And to Flavia Casas, Olivia Martinez, and Andrew Chadwick, who
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: created this audio story. All right. Thanks, everyone. We'll talk
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: to you on Thursday. Have a good one. Pod Save
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: America is a Crooked Media production. The executive producer is
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein. Our
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: producer is Haley Muse and Olivia Martinez is our associate producer.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: our sound engineer. Thanks to Tanya Somanator, Sandy Gerard, Hallie Kiefer,
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Madison Holman and Justine Howe for production support. and to
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, and
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: Amelia Montuth. Our episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: slash crookedmedia.