Latest / Foul Territory / Ken Rosenthal’s Inside Scoop: Bellinger’s signing status, A’s wanted Arenado, Pitching market update

Transcript

Ken Rosenthal’s Inside Scoop: Bellinger’s signing status, A’s wanted Arenado, Pitching market update · Foul Territory

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Let's at the inside Scoop with that T senior insider
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Ken Rosenthal and Ken. A fresh notes column came out
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: this morning, so let's dive right in.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Hold on, hold on, no, no, no stuff. I have a favorite
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: ask I Ken before we dive into the notes. Ken,
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: I have to wear tuxedo on Saturday night? Or first
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: of all, are you going to be there?
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: I'll be there, yes, but not a tuxedo.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, I have to wear a tuxedo and I had
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: to buy a bow tie, and I'm not talking about
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: the clip on bow tie. Will you teach me how
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: to tie a bow tie? Can you teach me in
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: under five minutes how to tie a bow tie?
• 0:31
  Speaker 4: Or will you tie it for me?
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: I can help you with it, but it's difficult to
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: do on someone else from me, especially with you all
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: need a step stool obviously, but I'm game to help you.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: Why do you have to wear a tuxedo?
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: By the way, because I'm on the dias dias dais
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: whatever it's called, and I'm presenting, so I have to
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: wear Trust me, if it was my choice, I would
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: go like Chris Sale last year, no tie and like
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: just a long sleeved shirt.
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: But you know they said I have to wear one,
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: so actually.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: I'll just unless order otherwise, so I'll help you out.
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: Okay, thank you, that's good video.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Our social team is just like drooling right now hearing
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: that they're able to do a two minute behind the
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: scenes clip with Ken trying to teach aj how to
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: tie a bow tie. Anyway, that was fun for thirty seconds.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Let's get to business, so Ken Fresh notes column in
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: The Athletic. Let's start with your take on Bobachett's deal slash,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: how the lockout isn't really holding back the big stars
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: from big contracts, right or not?
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: The lockow and I found it interesting.
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I found it interesting. Scott just the idea that
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: he would take a one year opt out, and a
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: couple of other players have done that as well. In
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: Ma's Got One, Michael King's Got One. There are a
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: few players a handful that have in their deals one
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: year opt outs as well as two year opt outs
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: in the three year deals. So I found that interesting
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: because remember we have the lockout coming on December first.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: It's a near certainty. Of course, doesn't mean we're going
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: to miss games, but there is the chance in twenty
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: twenty seven, that part or all of the season will
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: be canceled. I don't believe that's going to happen, but
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: that possibility exists. And yet Bobachhett is willing to go
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: back into the market. And there are a couple of
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: reasons for that. One because he's still going to be
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: a young free agent. He'll be the same age next
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: offseason that Kyle Tucker was this offseason, and one of
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: Kyle Tucker's appeals is that he's entering his age twenty
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: nine season. Also part of this is if you remember
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: the last lockout back in twenty three, I believe it
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: was twenty one, I can't remember the year, But what
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: happened right before the lockout was a free agent spending
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: frenzy unlike any we've ever seen before. One point four
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: billion was spent in one day as teams were trying
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: to get in under the buzzer, trying to get players
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: under contract before the lockout began. So that too would
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: suggest that it's not going to be a problem for
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: a guy like Bobashett. Maybe it's a problem for a
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: lesser free agent, but a guy like Bo no and
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: the other part of this, and actually the reason I
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: got thinking about it was a GM mentioned to me
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: last week that it's been difficult to value players with
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: two years of control left on the trade market. Difficult
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: because again, we don't know what twenty seven is going
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: to look like. So if you're giving up prospects for
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: a guy with two years of control, let's use Brendan
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: Donovan as an example, are you giving up too much
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: because you really only might get one year of control
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: or one plus years? Who knows. And the general consent
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: as I'm getting from people in the game is that
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: while we all understand that a lockout is going to happen,
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of positive momentum with the sport right
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: now with the industry, and to miss a significant amount
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: of time, even if the owners are hell bent on
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: a salary cap, that would be something that probably is
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: not going to happen.
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to make any predictions on labor because
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: who knows what will happen. But logically speaking, the way
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: the game is right now, record revenues coming off a
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: great World Series a better place esthetically because of the
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: pitch clock, the larger basis, all of the things that
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: have happened in recent years. It would seem to me
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: it would be kind of dumb to start missing games
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: at this point or twenty seven.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Great, Great, I was gonna ask you about something completely different,
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: but you brought up a point, and I want to
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: ask you about it. It's the you said of spending
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: frenzy like we had never seen before the last CBA expired.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Is that because that the owners say, Man, if we
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: sign these guys to big money, they're gonna be a
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: little more hesitant to go to the union and say, hey,
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: I can't miss a whole year, I can't miss part
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: of the year because I'm making big money. Now do
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: you think we'll say the same thing again between the
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: end of the World Series and December first, when the
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: CBA expires.
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: I don't remember exactly, AJ, but that is not what
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: fueled it. If I recall correctly, what fueled it was
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: the simple desire to get in under the buzzer, as
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: I said before, and get these players under contract. It
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: wasn't to co opt them in any way with regard
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: to the negotiations, So I don't see that really being
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: a factor in how this is going to play out.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: Perhaps the greater factor is teams might be less inclined
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: to do what they did the last time, that crazy
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: spending frenzy that I mentioned. When there is the threat
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: or the possibility of a salary cap that I guess
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: could affect it. But I'm only guessing. With that, it
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: seems to me that the same mechanics likely would be
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: in effect.
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: Oh okay, hid you do it? Oh? Sorry, I bet
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: I was reading the wrong thing. Ken.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: My next question is on Bellinger. Everyone's posting like much
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: like what haw Mikyle Tucker. He's expected to sign soon, soon, today, soon,
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: this week? Is it soon tomorrow? What do we expect
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: for soon? And what do we expect to do? We
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: even know the teams and we know Yankees, but there
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: hasn't been much other talk other than the Yankees.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: I would say soon means within a week. I would
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: expect it's going to happen within a week. We're getting
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: closer to spring training now, believe it or not. And
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: I would imagine not only does Bellinger want resolution, but
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: the teams involved want resolution as well. Now, the question
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: with a guy like Bellinger who lingers on the market
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: is always, well, what's the rest of the market? Who
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: is in there besides the Yankees, and we know the
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: Yankees offer pretty much five years, one sixty two, opt outs,
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: big signing bonus, all these elements to it, no deferrals.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: It's seemingly a good offer. But could the Mets jump
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: in They still need a guy like Bellinger. In fact,
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: I've always thought Bellinger was a better fit for them
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: than Tucker, simply because of his defensive ability and versatility.
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: So the Mets, certainly after not getting Tucker, could be
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: in the market for that kind of player. And the
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: Blue Jays were the other big bidder for Tucker ten years,
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty million, as first reported by John Hayman.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: So why wouldn't they with two outfielders coming off the
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: books at the end of this season, var Show and
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: Springer be involved in Bellinger as well. These are fair questions,
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: and I always caution people on my show and on
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: this show when I write that we don't know the
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: full extent of what's going on. And I'm not trying
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: to say there are mystery teams or anything like that,
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: but usually there is more than one team in a market.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: And if there wasn't in this case, if Bellinger and
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: his agent Scott Boris weren't trying to work things, then
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: it would just take the Yankees deal, I would assume,
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: But apparently they believe there might be something else out there,
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: and who knows what that might be.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Nobody likes a bloated cell phone bill. It can consume you,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: it can take over, it can be very annoying. So
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: I know that twenty twenty five ended CRATS and that's
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: when you have your end of your sales, but there
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: actually is still one sale that is running until the
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: end of the month.
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• 8:41
  Speaker 5: Is it possible when you said the Blue Jays, it
• 8:43
  Speaker 5: made me think, is it possible that they were being loud, like, oh,
• 8:47
  Speaker 5: we're in on Tucker. Everybody knows that they're in on Tucker,
• 8:49
  Speaker 5: and all of a sudden they're quietly in on Belly?
• 8:53
  Speaker 5: Or does it normally say okay the mo is we
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: hear about the teams that are in on players, and
• 8:59
  Speaker 5: if they're not, then we're not hearing about a certain
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: player like Belly. Because I'm also confused why they wouldn't
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: be in on Belly.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: First off, I don't know that they were loud about Tucker.
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: We didn't really hear much about them for the longest time,
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: and they don't talk at all. Actually, clubs don't talk
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: at all about free agents because they're not permitted to
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: under the CBA. They're very careful with that, actually, so
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: it wasn't that. I guess what you're asking Eric is
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: is it possible that while they wanted Tucker, Bellinger is
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: just as good a fit, or if not a better fit,
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: And yeah, they're right in there too. I would say
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: why not. Why wouldn't they be. We've seen them active
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: the entire offseason. We've seen them do big things already,
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: and they had a big offer out for Tucker Bellinger
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: would not require the same kind of contract, of course,
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: But at the same time, I would think, yes, that
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: they're in their swing. I just don't understand why they
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: wouldn't be for that matter.
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: Especially with his versatility and a better defender. I guess
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: Tucker's a better hitter. But you know, there's definitely value
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: there for Bellinger somebody that doesn't have value based on
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: what you wrote in your article from what an executive said,
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: Zach Gallan being the exact words I think you wrote
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: were the least attractive free agent among the rejected qualifying offers.
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: Now that was not your words, it was an executive.
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: Correct.
• 10:21
  Speaker 5: Is that something that Okay, so he's in that range
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: where like that pick, that competitive pick is really hurting
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: him or is that just like, okay, he's just the
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: last chip to fall.
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: The point the executive was making was that there is
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: always one or two guys who jet qualifying offers and
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: linger on the market who aren't maybe at the same
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: level as a Juan Soto last year or Kyle Tucker
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: this year, guys who are no brainers to sign and
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: give up draft picks for Boba Schetz another one, and
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: most of the other qualifying offer free agents fit into
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: that category. But there is always, it seems, in this
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: executive's opinion, a guy or two that kind of get
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: hurt by the system the way it is hurt by
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: the qualifying offer. Zach Gallen might be one of those players.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: Now I say might because we don't know how this
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: is going to turn out. But would it surprise me
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: if Zach Gallen, a Scott Bors client, made a decision
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: like a number of other Scott Bars clients have made
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: in recent years, from Blake Snell to Matt Chapman to
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: Alex Bregman, and take a shorter deal, go back into
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: the market next year perhaps or the year after, without
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: a draft pick attached, and at that point maybe do
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: better than he would do this offseason. He also had
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: kind of a down year by his standards. He was
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: not great for four months. Zach Allen back to himself
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: the last two months, so it seems that that's hurting
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: him as well. But the executive's point was there are
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: guys who get hurt by this. Pavetta was won last year.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: Pavetta didn't get the deal that he probably wanted. Four
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: US fifty five million was what it was from the
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: Padres when he rejected the qualifying offer. The qualifying offer
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: seemed to hurt him.
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: It hurts some guys, it doesn't hurt other guys. It's crazy. Listen,
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: we've talked about CBA.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: That's gonna be a big thing in the CBA is
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: the qualifying offer and the draft picks because teams hold
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: it all to well, it's a lot. There's gonna be
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: so much gosh, this offseason is gonna suck, and I'm
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: not gonna lie, uh just because the next offseason, as
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: the deadline looms and all these things start, it's going
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: to be awful.
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: But I don't want to talk about that anymore.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Yesterday we had ce Trent rosecrants on and he was
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: talking about the Reds obviously that's his squad, and I said, well,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Hunter Green is available, and he said, you didn't hear
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: that from me, I still don't believe it. So you've
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: said that the Reds are getting offers for their starting pitchers.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Would they really trade one of those starters for prospects?
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: I'm with Trent. I don't believe that they're necessarily inclined
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: to do that. They're pretty happy with their starting pitching.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: They consider it the strength of their team. And the
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: only way they would do it is the only way
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: that the Tigers would trade Trek School will, the only
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: way the Brewers will trade Freddie Paratha. All different circumstances,
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: but teams will tell you we'll do anything as long
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: as it improves us for the short and long term.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: So are you going to make a deal for a
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: Hunter Green that's going to improve you short and long term?
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: Good luck?
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: I don't know that you can. And that goes for
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: the rather Red starters as well, Lodolo and Abbott, the
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: entire top group. If they do it and maybe accept
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: younger players back, then they would have to backfill, and
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: the options in free agency to backfill sign another starter
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: or starting to dwindle. So I don't necessarily see it happening.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: And by the way, Age, getting back to your point,
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: about how next off season is going to be awful.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be awful. The two sides actually
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: can reach an agreement, forge a new collective bargaining agreement
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: before the deadline even come about on December first. This
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: has happened in the past. It happened in two thousand
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: and six. Hasn't happened recently.
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: I know that.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: But again it's not Oh, it shouldn't be FATA complete.
• 14:10
  Speaker 5: I know it is.
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: Basically, the Commission has already announced that there's going to
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: be a lockout. I get it, but we accept this
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: as reality when in reality they can.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: Do other things.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: They can actually make an agreement.
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: I think they should because the game is in a
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: good place. Let's get to somebody who was actually traded
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: Nolan Aernado. It's now come out in your notes column
• 14:33
  Speaker 5: that there were two other teams that were in serious pursuit.
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: Can you rank those two teams, the Athletics and the Padres,
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: and exactly how they were going to deploy Nolan Aernada.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: Yes, the Oakland oh, sorry, the Sacramento As were one
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: of those teams. They were going to use him at
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: third base, and that is a position that they've been
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: trying to fill. What happened in that case was they
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: had a deal in place with the Cardinals, I'm told,
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: and the deal was one in which they were taking
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: on more money than the Diamondbacks ultimately did. Remember, the
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: Diamondbacks are only paying eleven million of the remaining forty
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: two million on Arnado's remaining two years. The A's were
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: going to pay more, and in that respect, it was
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: a better deal that the Cardinals would have gotten, But
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: Arnaudo indicated that he'd rather than prefer or he'd rather
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: that they continue negotiating with teams like the Diamondbacks, and
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: the other team that was involved late was the Padres.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: The Padres wanted Ronado to play first base, and that
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: would have been a position change for him. But this
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: guy's a ten time goal glove winner, a third or
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: whatever it is. I would feel comfortable that he could
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: have adapted to first And the Padres thought process was,
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: we don't want to really pay any of this. We
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: want the Cardinals to pay the vast, vast majority, because
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: they are still looking for a starting pitcher, probably a
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: pitcher with an AAV and the eight to twelve million
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: dollar range, and that is where they wanted to put
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: more of their money. They still want a bad as well,
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: but based on their actions here and overall, you would
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: think that what they're going to try to do here
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: is get a very inexpensive bat and a picture. Like
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: I said in that eight to twelve million dollar AAV range.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Speaking of range pictures, an eight to twelve million AAV range.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: You mentioned Justin Verlander and I actually saw him on
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Sunday and talked to him, and he said he's got
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: an interest from teams. He just hasn't gotten the right
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: offer and he's waiting for it. And plus you know,
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: he's like, hey, if I wait until spring training, you
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: know someone's going to go down unfortunately, and then a
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: team that is going to come to him and say, hey,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: can you do this?
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: So there's offers.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: I don't know if there's offers out there, but there's
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: definitely interest in Justin Verlander.
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: Are there teams?
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: You mentioned the Orioles, but are there how many teams
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: do you think would be interesting because I think he's
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: the perfect fit, much like Max Scherzer was for Toronto
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: last year, to go in and help a team put
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: him over the top and get him to the World Series.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: I agree with you, and he had a really good
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: second half for the Giants. I know the first half
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: wasn't what he envisioned, but he proved in that second
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: half that he could pitch at a high level, not
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: the old Justin Verlander level, but certainly a high level
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: where he is an above average major league starter. Now
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: I don't know the exact teams interested, and the reason
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: I wrote about the Oriols I heard about them and
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: they are considering, of course, numerous options, and I didn't
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: want to overplay it in what I wrote, and I
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: don't believe that I did. It's not close or anything
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: like that. But Verlander is from Virginia. He knows Michaelias
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: the Ools GM from his time in Houston twenty seventeen
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: and eighteen. And of course the Oils are still looking
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: for one more starter.
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: Maybe it's at the.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: Top of the market. That's probably their preference, whether it's
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: one of the great starters available in trade, Schooble Peralta
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: if they're actually going to move, or someone like from
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: ber Valdez. But Verlander could represent a fallback for that
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: much like Chris Bassett or another starter could. So that
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: was one team. There are other teams still looking for starters.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: The Giants are won actually, and the Mets. You can
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: go right down the line. I don't know if the
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: Mets would want to go back to Orlando or they're
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: probably aiming higher as well. But do I expect he's
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: going to pitch in twenty twenty six? I absolutely do.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: As he should, as he should for me, at least
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: he should. Yes, yes, I mean he pitched good Pete. Yeah,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: he pitched well in the second half and did some
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: nice things. Got to remember how bad he was at
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: the start, and he turned it around the second half.
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: He did. So anyway, let's see what happens.
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: Kind of the Pirate's gonna spend more money or they
• 18:38
  Speaker 5: just gonna throw it around and be like, which pat
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: is the baseball under? Oh, same payrolls last year.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: Well they're up a little bit. They're up about eight
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: million from the end of last season.
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: So eight whole million. Wow.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm just giving you what is the reality here?
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: And they have acquired Brandon Low, they have acquired, of course,
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: signed a free agent Ryan O'Hearn. They would like to
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: do more, yes, and I would expect that they're going
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: to do more. They know from when I understand that
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: they still are at least one batch short, and if
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: they get another decent offensive player, I would anticipate that
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: people will see them as a potential wildcard contender. That's
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: pretty good. So there are still a lot of hitters
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: available on the market. Obviously, they're limited a little bit
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: in the positions that they can pursue. Third base would
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: certainly be one, but I do expect that they're going
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: to still be active and we'll see where this ends up.
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: Because if you remember at the start of the off season,
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: the reason I wrote about this today was going back
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: to the GM meetings, I was hearing that the Pirates
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: and Marlins were signaling to agents that they were going
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: to spend more this offseason than they have in the past.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: The Pirates certainly have, and they've certainly tried to do
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: even more than they have and have been rejected in
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: a few cases. The Marlins are are, according to Fangraft's numbers,
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: one million below where they were at the end of
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: last year, so they really haven't spent other than on fairbanks.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: They've made some interesting moves. So whether that all was
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: just talk or whether there was something more there in
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: the Pirates case, it wasn't just talk. They made some
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: serious runs at some big players. But in the Marlin's case,
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: I'm not so sure.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes sense again, it makes sense. All right,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: Today's Hall of Fame day. Ken, you put out your balance.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: I agree with most of your picks on there, but
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: I have one question for you. And in your explanation,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: you said you didn't vote for Manny Ramirez and Alex
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Rodriguez because of the steroid ped thing, but you.
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: Voted for Andy Pettitt.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: And one of my things is Andy Pettitt admitted to
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: doing a ped He apologized.
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: Said I did it this and that. He said it
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: was for recovery.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: But you know Nelson Cruz had a parasite, Fernando Tatis
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: had ringworm. You know Alvarado was trying to lose weight
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: in the offseason. I mean, you know, everyone has a thing.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: So then why did you vote for Andy Pettitt but
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: you won't vote for Manny and Alex.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: It's in the article the way I go about this
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: and approach it. Now, I'm going to preface this by saying,
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: I know people have their own opinions on this, and
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: people are certainly entitled to their opinions. But my line,
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: the line I draw here is players who are confirmed
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: to have used or tested positive after the league established
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: firm rules and penalties. At the time Pettitt was doing it,
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: that wasn't the case. It's the same as with Bonds
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: and Clements.
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: I didn't vote for Bonds and Clemens initially, but I
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: eventually came around on them and others because once we
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: elected players who were strongly suspected to have used. And
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to name names here, but we know
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: that there are players in the Hall now who have used.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: At that point, I felt, well, you couldn't exclude Bonds
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: and Clements.
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: They Rod and Manny to me, they knew what was
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: going on at that point when they were confirmed to
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: have used, they knew what the rules were, and they
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: still violated the rules. That is where I draw the line.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: I don't know that I'm correct in that, and I
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: know people say, you guys are the morality police whatever.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: We can be criticized for any number of things with
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: regards to our votes, and people are fair to criticize us,
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: or certainly permitted to criticize us. But that is my feeling.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: The Hall is the whole vote is a very subjective
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: personal thing. You go by what you believe is right,
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: and you go by what your instincts are. And the
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: one thing I'll say about a Rod in particular is
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: that at the time, it wasn't just that he used peds.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: He sued the Union, he sued the Yankees. He was
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: conducting himself in a way that was kind of out there.
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: Now a fan might say, well, that doesn't matter. It
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: shouldn't matter with regard to his Hall of Fame case. Okay,
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: but I remember those times and they weren't really happy
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: times for baseball with all that going on.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Agreed, and listen, I agree with what you said. It
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: was just an interesting I just wanted to hear your point.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I know what you wrote in the article, and I
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: agree with you. I've said that from the get go.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: If you did it before two thousand and four or five,
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: when they started testing, and we don't know one hundred
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: percent what you did, even the anonymous you know, Mitchell
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: rapport where they said, how do we know that it
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: was really.
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: You know, I don't know that answer.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, But after two thousand and five, when they started
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: putting penalties on it, I've said this, if you get caught,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: then to me, you're out and you know what you're doing.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: You're doing this knowing there is a rule on the
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Major League Baseball books.
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: And I agree with you.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: But the Petitt was the one guy who had come
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: out and said, hey, I did this, I'm sorry, and
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: I didn't know because you know all the other guys maguire,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: So so all the names you hear, Paul Merrow, who
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: then tested positive later even though he denies it, right, like,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: these are all guys that we were, ah, do we
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: really know? We don't, And none of them got in
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Bonds Clemens.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: No, and that's a fair question.
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: It was the one who said, yes.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: It's a fair question that you ask. But certainly, in
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: this particular case with pettit, if that was the reason
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: why I would withhold a vote for him because he
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: admitted it, we're essentially penalizing him for his honesty. Where
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: I voted for Bonds and Clemens, who never fully admitted it,
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: really admitted it at all, that would seem to be
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: an inconsistency that I would not be comfortable with. Now,
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: I will say this in closing a Hall of Fame ballot,
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: any Writer's Hall of Fame ballot pretty much contains all
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: kinds of inconsistencies. It's almost impossible to maintain consistent arguments,
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: not just with the ped guys, but with the others
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: that we're considering as well. That's the nature of it.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: The beauty of the process to me is that we
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: all do have our own opinions, and in the baseball
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: writer's case, there are some four hundred of us. And
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: my hope always is that with that number and the
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: variety of opinions you will have, that we get to
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: the right place. We often do, we don't always, And
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: I wrote in the column that I believe we blew
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: it on Mattingly and Dale mar and others because we
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: penalize them for things that they didn't accomplish instead of
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: really looking at what they did accomplish, even though it
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: was over a shorter period of time. So our standards evolve,
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: our voting evolves, our thought processes evolve. It's kind of
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: an organic thing, and it's healthy to debate all this stuff.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: It's really these are great conversations if you ask me.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: I know, fans get all bothered and hot and lathered
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: about this stuff. To me, it's the beauty of baseball
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: man that we argue. We have fun talking about it
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: and we disagree.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: I agree, that's part of it.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: And the numbers are going to change too, because you know,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: three hundred wins we're probably never going to see again.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: You know, the home runs, the five hundred homers might
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: be might might not be the benchmark anymore because you know,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: like we can get into we can get into an
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: argument with about Stanton if he gets to five hundred
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: homers as he all. You know, there's a lot of changed. Yeah,
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: the numbers have changed. You know, three thousand hits might
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: be something we never see again, so that might be
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: an auto.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: In oppose, he's going to get in with like half
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: that right now.
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: Our guys how got in with nothing close to that.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, things have changed on every front. There's a little
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: more in some ways quality over quantity on some of
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: the guys too, because.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: They I mean, I heard Crash say Malina, But Malina
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: had a bunch of gold gloves and he had two
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: thousand hits. So yeah, if for a catcher, two thousand
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: hits means something, yep, especially when you're one of them
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: that Ken didn't vote.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: For you didn't get an honorary there's still now I'm
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: going to say honorary vote. It's it's a hot it's
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: a hot topic in the sport. Yeah, if everyone, if
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: everyone gave an honorary vote to Rick Porcello, guess what,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: you'd be a Hall of Famer. Just throwing that out there.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: You know, if everyone said, oops, I gave the same
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: honorary vote, you would accidentally be a Hall of Famer.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: So it's not my favorite thing anyway, Ken, Thank you
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: very much, appreciate it. We'll check out the coverage later
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: to see who gets in, and we'll see you this weekend.
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: We're looking forward to it.
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: Yes, me too,