Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / STILL MISSING: Gretchen Fleming Disappears After Night Out With Friends

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STILL MISSING: Gretchen Fleming Disappears After Night Out With Friends · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Harrowing details now coming to
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Speaker 1: light in the case of a beautiful missing young woman,
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Speaker 1: Gretchen Fleming, who seemingly leaves a bar with an older
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Speaker 1: man the night of her disappearance. But she was stumbling
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Speaker 1: very oddly. Was she slipped a rufie? Did she get GHB?
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Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
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Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation in series M
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Speaker 1: one eleven. What happened to this gorgeous young Gretchen Fleming
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Speaker 1: leaving a bar with a guy? Has not been seen
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Speaker 1: or heard from since. But in the last hours a
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Speaker 1: bizarre twist in the search for Gretchen again, I Nancy Grace,
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Speaker 1: thanks for being with us. In the last hours, we
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Speaker 1: learn that West Virginia officials find suspected human remains just
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Speaker 1: two hours from where the brunette beauty was last seen alive.
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Speaker 1: Straight up to Crime online dot COM's Jackie Howard, Jackie,
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Speaker 1: what can you tell us? West Virginia officials say suspected
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Speaker 1: human remains were found approximately two hours from the location
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Speaker 1: in Parkersburg where Gretchen Fleming was last seen with an
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Speaker 1: unnamed male. The human remains were found in elm Grove,
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Speaker 1: Ohio County Sheriff Tom Howard says officials were led to
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Speaker 1: the suspected human remains after his office got a call
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Speaker 1: from another department regarding a missing person. Those remains were
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Speaker 1: taken to a local funeral home for a medical examiner
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Speaker 1: to perform an investigation. Twenty seven year old Gretchen Fleming
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Speaker 1: last seen in the early morning hours of December four
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Speaker 1: at a restaurant Bar My Way in Parkersburg. She left
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Speaker 1: with an unknown man seemingly willingly, But who can leave
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Speaker 1: willingly if you're under the influence of a date rape drug.
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Speaker 1: About two hours outside a Parkersburg where Fleming goes missing,
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Speaker 1: suspected human remains were found. It's a little town called
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Speaker 1: elm Grove, Ohio County Sheriff Tom Howard, who says officials
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Speaker 1: were led to the human remains on Thursday after his
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Speaker 1: office gets called from another department regarding a missing person.
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Speaker 1: Now that those two cases may not be connected, you
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Speaker 1: know what, there's only one way to do this. Let's
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Speaker 1: start at the beginning about when Gretchen goes missing. Take
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Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at wc h S. The
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Speaker 1: Parkersburg Police Department is asking for your help been finding
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Speaker 1: twenty seven year old Gretchen Fleming of Vienna. Detectives say
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Speaker 1: she was last seeing the night of December third and fourth,
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Speaker 1: but relatives didn't realize she was gone quickly and did
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Speaker 1: not report it until this week. Police located her purse
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Speaker 1: and phone, amping up concern. Detectives have worked around the
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Speaker 1: clock since then to cultivate information, and the public has
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Speaker 1: really stepped up in regard to tips, and even if
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Speaker 1: it wasn't from that night, giving us information they thought
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Speaker 1: was pertinent, and a combination of that has really expedited
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Speaker 1: the investigation to the point we were able to obtain
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Speaker 1: some search warrants. Before I ds to you our panel,
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Speaker 1: I want to go to a special guest joining us.
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Speaker 1: It's Gretchen's father, David Fleming. When did you realize Gretchen
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Speaker 1: was gone? Probably that Sunday, ask her. She came up
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Speaker 1: missing the following week. She was staying mother's house, and
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Speaker 1: she had been you'd go out and stay with friends,
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Speaker 1: and you come back every few days and get her
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Speaker 1: clothes and get to work. And she was just gone
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Speaker 1: a little longer than norm and that's when we started
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Speaker 1: looking for I know her so well that if she
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Speaker 1: was able to call, she would call me in a
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Speaker 1: heartbe she would never at any of the Suffernis. The
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Speaker 1: twenty seven year old described as shy and sweet. She'd
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Speaker 1: recently been living in Vienna with her grandparents. She couldn't
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Speaker 1: get wait, wait to get out of Parkersburg, to get
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Speaker 1: to North Carolina and spread her wings to fly, and
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Speaker 1: she lived down there for several years and then came
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Speaker 1: back to Parkersburg. Okay, guys, you were just hearing our
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Speaker 1: friends at wc h S. Let me go to Cheryl
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Speaker 1: McCollum joining me, the founder and director of the Coal
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Speaker 1: Case Research Institute, currently in law enforcement. You can find
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Speaker 1: her at Coalcase Crimes dot org. Cheryl. That's the way
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Speaker 1: millennials are and the next generation as well. They don't
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Speaker 1: live under the same rules that we thought we were
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Speaker 1: supposed to live under. Like, okay, you graduate from college,
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Speaker 1: and then you get a job, and then you get
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Speaker 1: an apartment. As soon as you get a down payment,
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Speaker 1: you put down a house because that's the best thing
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Speaker 1: to do financially. Oh no, no, no, no no. In fact,
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Speaker 1: I just read about a knee member I think he said.
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Speaker 1: The House of Representative says yeah, I'm gonna head to
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Speaker 1: DC and sofa couch surf for a few days, you know,
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Speaker 1: and just see how it unfolds. Absolutely, this is not
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Speaker 1: unusual to be basically living at grandma's house because of
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Speaker 1: the location. And then you stay with this friend girl
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Speaker 1: and that friend girl and this one and that, and
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Speaker 1: you come back, have dinner, stay a few days, and
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Speaker 1: then off you go. It's just it's very nomadic. Let
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Speaker 1: me say, absolutely, it's pretty freeing and kind of adventurous.
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Speaker 1: This is not unusual. But I think it adds to
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Speaker 1: the dilemma Cheryl McCollum, because we can't id okay, this
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Speaker 1: is the day she didn't come home to grandma's. See
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Speaker 1: what I mean, I can't start my crimeline. Well, here's
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Speaker 1: what happens, and we know this. Even though this was
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Speaker 1: a usual type of lifestyle for her, there is a
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Speaker 1: pattern and she usually has not gone this long and
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Speaker 1: she certainly is not, you know, avoiding to be in
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Speaker 1: contact with her family. And what's really important here, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: and this will go to your timeline. Is that cell phone.
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Speaker 1: She's not with it and she's not owner. You're absolutely correct,
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Speaker 1: back to David Fleming, this is Gretchen's dad joining us. David,
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Speaker 1: I know that your whole family's twisted up so badly
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Speaker 1: wanting her to come home. Tell me again, when you
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Speaker 1: first realize Gretchen was nowhere you thought she would be.
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Speaker 1: That is correct. My mother came over to the house
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Speaker 1: that Sunday and said, you know, this is abnormal. It's
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Speaker 1: been longer than normal. And I said, well, let's wait
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Speaker 1: till monday. You know, the weekend's over. Maybe she'll be
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Speaker 1: back Monday. And then she hasn't work, and so that's
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Speaker 1: when I started going out, following the trail and looking
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Speaker 1: for and I found her person at one of the
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Speaker 1: establishments that she was at. My heart just sunk when
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Speaker 1: you said that I found her purse. Go ahead, mister Fleming,
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Speaker 1: and her purse, I found her debit card and her
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Speaker 1: cell phone. Then really triggered me that I knew something
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Speaker 1: was wrong. Debit card and cell phone in purse. You
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Speaker 1: found it? And where was it? It was at an
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Speaker 1: establishment called the front Row, where somebody from the last
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Speaker 1: establishment basically returned it back to where where they begin.
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Speaker 1: Is that like a restaurant bar? Yeah, mister Fleming. You
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Speaker 1: said that the grandma, her grandmother where she was living. Now,
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Speaker 1: hold on, was that also in Parkersburg, West Virginia. Yeah, Okay,
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Speaker 1: she lives in Parkersburg in Vienna. It's just like they're
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Speaker 1: basically the same town. Vienna, Si, the little suburb of Parkersburg. Okay,
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Speaker 1: Vienna is in Wood County, West Virginia's situated right there
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Speaker 1: on the Ohio River, which is an issue I want
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Speaker 1: to go back to you on Joe Scott Morgan situated
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Speaker 1: on the Ohio River and at border Parkersburg. Like mister
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Speaker 1: Fleming is telling you, it's kind of like all one
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Speaker 1: and the same. The population, now, this is what's important
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Speaker 1: to in my mind, not only the Ohio River, but
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Speaker 1: the population. It's around ten seven hundred and seventy six people,
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Speaker 1: about eleven thousand people. That is small compared to like
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Speaker 1: a huge metropolis. It's bigger than when I grew where
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Speaker 1: I grew up in rural bib County, but it's still
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Speaker 1: small compared to other places, and that that touches on
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Speaker 1: the way I would approach this investigation. However, it's the
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Speaker 1: third largest city by population in the Parkersburg, Vienna Marietta
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Speaker 1: metropolitan area. That's what I know, and that population count
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Speaker 1: is going to be very, very important. So you said
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Speaker 1: on that Sunday, what was the date? The date in
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Speaker 1: December of that Sunday, mister Fleming, December eleventh, Okay, that's
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Speaker 1: when the grandma comes over and says, hey, Gretchen hasn't
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Speaker 1: been home. Now, how many days at that juncture had
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Speaker 1: she been not at home? Seven? So can you get
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Speaker 1: me the weekday? I've December four, twenty twenty two, So
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Speaker 1: the following should have been the previous Sunday. It was
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Speaker 1: December third, which would have been that Saturday. Gotcha, I've
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Speaker 1: got December four. Thank you for the correction, because every
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Speaker 1: day matters. Frankly, December three, Saturday, twenty twenty two. That
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Speaker 1: was the last time she was at grandma's. Okay, guys,
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Speaker 1: you were just hearing our friends at wc h S
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Speaker 1: TV now taking us to our friends at wt A
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Speaker 1: friends cold. Just days before Christmas, the community united with
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Speaker 1: one goal in mind, bringing Gretchen Fleming home. I want
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Speaker 1: everybody to look to your left, to look to your right.
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Speaker 1: This is what community is. Fleming turns twenty eight. On
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Speaker 1: Christmas Eve, pastor who spoke at the vigil preyed for
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Speaker 1: a miracle that she's home for her birthday. God, we're
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Speaker 1: just thinking about so many ways and opportunities Father that
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Speaker 1: you have shared with us. Miracles do happen. Thank God,
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Speaker 1: we are asking for a miracle now. Miracles do happen,
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Speaker 1: and that's what I'm praying for in this case, mister Fleming,
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Speaker 1: a miracle to bring your daughter home twenty seven. At
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Speaker 1: the time she goes missing, she lives with Grandma not
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Speaker 1: too far away, and Grandma comes home to the parents
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Speaker 1: and says, Gretchen's been gone. She's been gone out a week.
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Speaker 1: That's highly, highly unusual. Now, I want you to hear
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Speaker 1: what a law enforcement has to say. Take listen our
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Speaker 1: friends at w TAP. Parkersburg Police Chief Matthew Board also
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Speaker 1: got up to speak. He assured the community that law
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Speaker 1: enforcement is working hard on the case. There are so
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Speaker 1: many behind the scenes in at the parkers Police Department
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Speaker 1: that really just essentially not went home since we found
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Speaker 1: out Gretchen wasn't home. Board Enngridge is anyone with any
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Speaker 1: information to reach out if you hear anything, if you
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Speaker 1: see anything, if you have a recollection, don't hesitate to
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Speaker 1: reach out to us because what might seem minor to
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Speaker 1: you all might be what we need to help bring
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Speaker 1: Gretchen home. The latest in the search for Gretchen is
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Speaker 1: that West Virginia officials find suspective human remains just two
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Speaker 1: hours from where Gretchen was last seen. Straight up to
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Speaker 1: Crime Online's Dave Mac, is there any surveillance video at
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Speaker 1: the front row or the bar she went to, the
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Speaker 1: restaurant she went to afterwards? Yes, I don't know if
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Speaker 1: they have video at the front row that hasnt been
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Speaker 1: disclosed in what I've seen thus far. You've got it
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Speaker 1: from my Way. There is video at my Way. We
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Speaker 1: actually do know who she left my Way bar with guys.
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Speaker 1: Hold on my Way. My Way is also a restaurant bar.
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Speaker 1: They have family karaoke, They have live news that you
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Speaker 1: can playpool. They have this Sunday Brunch that people from
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Speaker 1: miles around come to the Sunday Brunch with their families.
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Speaker 1: Now interesting, Dave Mac, When was she observed at my Way? Now,
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Speaker 1: remember her dad is with us, David Fleming. He goes
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Speaker 1: and collects her pocketbook. At the first restaurant, she went
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Speaker 1: to the front row, which had her cell phone and
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Speaker 1: her debit card into in It wasn't that the first
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Speaker 1: place she stopped. David. Yes, ma'am, okay, take a listen
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Speaker 1: to our friends at w tap. Another employee, Jessica mctee,
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Speaker 1: says that Gretchen's purse with her phone and other materials
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Speaker 1: was turned into the front row the following morning, and
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Speaker 1: it was there for a week until her father, David Fleming,
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Speaker 1: picked up the purse on December eleventh. Both employees say
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Speaker 1: that it's a difficult thing to see this happen to
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Speaker 1: someone they knew from high school and seeing at the
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Speaker 1: front row bar and are worried about the person of
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Speaker 1: interest she was seen with from the my Way lounge.
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Speaker 1: When we hear about something like that's happening, it just
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Speaker 1: strikes you right through the soul because you're like, I
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Speaker 1: was just with her, or I just talked to her, like,
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Speaker 1: how could something like this happen this way? So he
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Speaker 1: goes there. How did you know to go there, mister Fleming,
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Speaker 1: because it's a popular place in town and younger people,
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Speaker 1: you know, hang out there, so I thought to check
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Speaker 1: there first. Okay, Well that was smart. I thought maybe
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Speaker 1: they called you because they had this pocket book, But
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Speaker 1: you went there all on your own. Yes, that's a
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Speaker 1: picture of my daughter and asked if anybody had seen her,
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Speaker 1: and they said, the matter of fact, you left her.
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Speaker 1: Somebody returned her first year Karen Start joining me. We're
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Speaker 1: now New York psychologists joining us out of Manhattan today
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Speaker 1: to help find Gretchen. You can find her at karen
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Speaker 1: Start dot com. That's Karen with a See Karen, did
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Speaker 1: you hear what he just said? I mean, we're racing
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Speaker 1: through the facts so we can get it out there
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Speaker 1: to help find her. But let me just stop for
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Speaker 1: a minute. Here's dad and I'm thinking to my dad,
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Speaker 1: and you know how I feel about my father out
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Speaker 1: in the cold, going from place to place, bar to restaurant,
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Speaker 1: to bar to restaurant, the gas station to this to
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Speaker 1: that with a picture. This is my girl. Have you
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Speaker 1: seen her? Her name is Gretchen. Can you imagine that,
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Speaker 1: Karen Star, It's so vivid, Nancy, I have such an
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Speaker 1: image and I'm so sorry of him going around and
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Speaker 1: saying have you seen my daughter? And how strange? Who
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Speaker 1: do you know what? Female would leave the bar and
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Speaker 1: allowed let their cell phone be in the bar, there,
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Speaker 1: purse be in the bar. Nobody would leave that behind.
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Speaker 1: And it makes you wonder what exactly was going on.
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Speaker 1: It's not a normal situation. I don't even care if
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Speaker 1: someone had a lot to drink. You sort of have
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Speaker 1: it attached to you. Let me ask everybody in the studio, guys,
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Speaker 1: are you within reach of your cell phone right now? Yes?
14:58
Speaker 1: I am and Ellie, we all have our cell phones.
15:03
Speaker 1: You know, this cell phone is partly the answer to
15:06
Speaker 1: the question that you're searching. Is this Dell Carson? It is,
15:10
Speaker 1: guys with me? Is Dell Carson. He's a high profile
15:13
Speaker 1: Laurie Rode Jackson. But the real reason we have him on,
15:17
Speaker 1: not only for his legal acumen, is his former FBI
15:20
Speaker 1: agent for many years and a former officer in Miami
15:24
Speaker 1: Day which is a very high crime area. Jump in
15:27
Speaker 1: Dell Carson. You know, it's a mountainous territory west. Cell
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Speaker 1: phones have aluminated league generators like that. Oh good point.
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Speaker 1: Looking at pains and watching her phone go from one
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Speaker 1: place to another, see if there's another tandem that goes
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Speaker 1: from that same place to another, and then you can
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Speaker 1: tell specifically when she left by looking at the duration
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Speaker 1: of the phone. This his stays charge to see backwards
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Speaker 1: how long it's been alive and whether or not the father.
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Speaker 1: When he picked up the phone was still active. So
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Speaker 1: and you know, other questions like who brought the pocketbook back?
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Speaker 1: Exactly right? Was she in her car? I mean, where's
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Speaker 1: her car? Those are important issues, but candidly, there'll be
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Speaker 1: transmissions that are limited in range, and all they've got
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Speaker 1: to do is correlate those cell phone pains to isolate
16:21
Speaker 1: out who the hell was involved with her. Can I
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Speaker 1: jump in, Nancy, Yeah, but I want to tell you something, Cheryl. Yes, hold,
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Speaker 1: you thought, mister Fleming, this is Gretchen's dad. Was she
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Speaker 1: traveling in her car that night? Gretchen doesn't have a car.
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Speaker 1: She doesn't ever wanted her driver's license. She's want of
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Speaker 1: those people that just doesn't want to drive. She was
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Speaker 1: more of a you know, got a ride by, you
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Speaker 1: know Fred Well, that also is not unusual for someone
16:47
Speaker 1: her age twenty seven, but it reflects an agreeability that
16:51
Speaker 1: makes her subject to being manipulated by people. You know,
16:55
Speaker 1: I mean, in other words, I don't know about that,
16:57
Speaker 1: but I do know she'd have to get a ride
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Speaker 1: to wherever she was going. So we don't have a
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Speaker 1: car to help us. Let me Martin, that off, Cheryl
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Speaker 1: McCollum joining me. Founder director of the Cold Case Research Institute.
17:08
Speaker 1: She's also active forensic expert. You can find her and
17:13
Speaker 1: a brand new and it's a hit podcast, Zone seven. Okay,
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Speaker 1: Cheryl jump in. So she's seen at this bar with
17:21
Speaker 1: an older man and there's inconsistent statements that he's already
17:25
Speaker 1: made to law enforcement. Well wait a minute, wait a minute,
17:27
Speaker 1: wait wait wait, when you say older, you know she's
17:31
Speaker 1: just twenty seven, so that can mean arrange. That could
17:36
Speaker 1: be anywhere from twenty eight to seventy five. Hold on,
17:41
Speaker 1: I'm gonna follow up, mister Fleming, David Fleming. We're talking
17:45
Speaker 1: about surveillance video not at the front row where you
17:51
Speaker 1: retrieved her pocketbook, but from my Way restaurant and lounge
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Speaker 1: sent up to crime online dot Com. A Howard Jackie,
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Speaker 1: what mister Fleming? And No, I have not, but I'm
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Speaker 1: aware of it. Have you tried to see it? I
18:07
Speaker 1: haven't taken detail of what was all on the video?
18:13
Speaker 1: What were you told is on the video because what
18:16
Speaker 1: we know about may not may not be as let
18:21
Speaker 1: me say fully fleshed out, is what you know about?
18:24
Speaker 1: What were you told is on the video? I was
18:28
Speaker 1: told that she was at the my Way and appeared
18:31
Speaker 1: to be pretty intoxicated and uh, talking to an older male. Okay,
18:36
Speaker 1: what about this friend? And I'm not saying he's a
18:39
Speaker 1: suspect because I don't believe that he is a suspect.
18:41
Speaker 1: The I call him a friend boy because he's not
18:44
Speaker 1: a boyfriend. He's a friend. That is a guy. Your daughter,
18:49
Speaker 1: Gretchen goes to the first place, um the front row
18:55
Speaker 1: with the friend, the longtime friend, who is a male.
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Speaker 1: Is he with her at my way? She rode with
19:03
Speaker 1: him to my way and that's where they got separated. Okay, gotcha.
19:08
Speaker 1: So you were told what about the video, mister Fleming
19:12
Speaker 1: that basically she appeared to be intoxicated and was talking
19:15
Speaker 1: to an order man and ended up believing with him.
19:18
Speaker 1: When you say older, what do you mean by older?
19:22
Speaker 1: You know, mid fifties? What in the hay as a
19:24
Speaker 1: man as mid fifties doing with a twenty seven year
19:27
Speaker 1: old girl. Not judging, I'm just trying to figure out
19:30
Speaker 1: what this guy is doing there, trying to pick up
19:36
Speaker 1: young girls. And Nancy, if I could just jump in, please,
19:39
Speaker 1: I wanted to make this joint. Here's one of the
19:42
Speaker 1: statements he made to law enforcement. He told them at
19:45
Speaker 1: one point that night early morning, she was in his car,
19:49
Speaker 1: So we not only know he was with her, she
19:52
Speaker 1: was in his vehicle at some point, and nobody has
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Speaker 1: seen her since. I think it's critical I can add
19:59
Speaker 1: to that. Now. Okay, we've got the video of Gregging
20:03
Speaker 1: leaving with this person, and we don't have it all
20:08
Speaker 1: the way to his car. Okay, the video only goes
20:10
Speaker 1: a certain part. He was parked in an area that
20:12
Speaker 1: wasn't picked up by the video. However, we have his
20:15
Speaker 1: own admission that she got into the car with him.
20:19
Speaker 1: He then claims, and this is where the quag comes in,
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Speaker 1: claims that he just dropped her off at some intersection. Okay,
20:26
Speaker 1: that they never went all the way to his house.
20:29
Speaker 1: That's why police are looking for anybody in that area,
20:32
Speaker 1: because he lives about two miles from my way. They're
20:35
Speaker 1: trying to find anybody in that area that has surveillance videos.
20:38
Speaker 1: What about the intersection, Dave mac is there a stop
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Speaker 1: a red light? Camp? Well, I don't know. I know
20:45
Speaker 1: that the police obviously did not believe him in what
20:49
Speaker 1: he said, because it makes no sense you're gonna drop
20:51
Speaker 1: a girl off that you picked up at a bar
20:53
Speaker 1: at an intersection in the middle of the night. That
20:55
Speaker 1: makes no sense whatsoever. Okay, now, wait to you and I,
20:59
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense. It may not make sense. But
21:01
Speaker 1: what if she said, Hey, I want out of here,
21:04
Speaker 1: I want an uber let me off right here? I mean,
21:06
Speaker 1: we don't know what happened? A Fox Nation exclusive an
21:15
Speaker 1: international pop star stripped of human rights? How does that happen?
21:19
Speaker 1: Easier than you think? Join us for a deep dive
21:23
Speaker 1: into Britney Spears's conservatorship Trapped streaming now on Fox Nation
21:34
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace And Now another bizarre twist.
21:40
Speaker 1: What's the likelihood that human remains are found just two
21:44
Speaker 1: hours away from where a woman goes missing? Social media
21:49
Speaker 1: was rife with speculation the remains found in a wooded
21:53
Speaker 1: area of Elm Grove were, in fact the missing woman
21:57
Speaker 1: Gretchen Fleming. Another bizarre twist. We are now being told
22:03
Speaker 1: there is quote no evidence at this time connecting human
22:08
Speaker 1: remains found in West Virginia to the missing person case
22:11
Speaker 1: of Gretchen Fleming. Chief Matthew Board of Parkersburg PD tells
22:17
Speaker 1: us now the two cases are not linked. So who
22:20
Speaker 1: is the person whose remains were found and where is Gretchen?
22:26
Speaker 1: Do you guys take a listen to our cut twelve.
22:28
Speaker 1: This is Semantha Cavalia w TAP new tonight. The parkersbur
22:32
Speaker 1: Police Department has provided WTP with more details on Gretchen
22:35
Speaker 1: Fleming's disappearance. If you have video surveillance, Parkersber Police Chief
22:40
Speaker 1: Matthew Board encourages you to look for this car in
22:43
Speaker 1: your footage. He says to check footage from late night
22:45
Speaker 1: December third through December fifth. If you see the car
22:48
Speaker 1: in your footage, contact Detective Zimmer a minute three or
22:51
Speaker 1: four four two four ten seventy two. During after hours
22:54
Speaker 1: you can call three or four four two four eighty
22:57
Speaker 1: four forty four. What kind of car are they looking
23:03
Speaker 1: forward to? David Fleming? This is Gretchen's dad, Gretchen Fleming's dad.
23:07
Speaker 1: What kind of car are they looking for? Mister Fleming.
23:10
Speaker 1: It's a black hatch back. I'm looking for the model
23:13
Speaker 1: here caught, Thank you, that's it. What's a black Nissan
23:18
Speaker 1: Rogue Sports, Nissan Rogue Sport now, question to the panel.
23:24
Speaker 1: I assume that a black Nisan Rogue Sport. That's what
23:30
Speaker 1: the described older man was driving that night. Correct, Yeah, Okay.
23:36
Speaker 1: Joe Scot Morgan joining me now, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
23:41
Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. He's got
23:45
Speaker 1: a hit podcast, Body Bags, with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott.
23:49
Speaker 1: They're asking the public if you have any footage of
23:53
Speaker 1: this black hatchback Nissan Rogue Sport, call this number. We're
24:00
Speaker 1: trying to piece the puzzle together. Okay, just gotta jump in. Yeah,
24:05
Speaker 1: you begin to think about this this, you know they
24:07
Speaker 1: have a Parkersburg has an advantage in this case where
24:12
Speaker 1: where all of this went down went down. Now, the
24:15
Speaker 1: periphery of Parkersburg is not a densely populated area. However,
24:18
Speaker 1: this is a business dining district. It's down toward the river.
24:23
Speaker 1: A lot of people go there and hang out. So
24:26
Speaker 1: you've got a lot of businesses that are around there.
24:29
Speaker 1: People are walking about. I don't know about the cams
24:32
Speaker 1: on the camp on the stoplights and all of this
24:34
Speaker 1: sort of thing, but businesses alone will have some kind
24:38
Speaker 1: of CCTV footage. That's going to be important here when
24:42
Speaker 1: you're talking about something like a montage, because she her
24:46
Speaker 1: movements can be tracked, and this is something else I
24:48
Speaker 1: think it's critical in this case. You know, Mack had
24:51
Speaker 1: mentioned something off the air just a little while ago
24:53
Speaker 1: about about perhaps some type of agent like a drug
24:58
Speaker 1: being placed into her dream. If there is video footage
25:04
Speaker 1: at one of these bars, you can actually appreciate this, Nancy,
25:08
Speaker 1: the uptake of a drug like that into a system. Okay,
25:11
Speaker 1: are you talking about GHB gama hydroxyb rate GHB or
25:17
Speaker 1: rehibital either one there they kind of accomplish the same thing.
25:21
Speaker 1: They're both classified as date rate drugs. But you know
25:25
Speaker 1: the thing about it is both of these drugs and
25:26
Speaker 1: people will find this interesting that have ever had surgery.
25:30
Speaker 1: They're an aid to anaesthesia. It's like it's like a
25:33
Speaker 1: precursor to anesthesia. They put you in this kind of
25:35
Speaker 1: dream like state. You can't really remember anything, that sort
25:40
Speaker 1: of thing. And to Dale's point earlier, he talked about compliance,
25:44
Speaker 1: and that's going to be key here. But if they
25:46
Speaker 1: have if they have footage of her having ingested a drink,
25:50
Speaker 1: you know they're they're throwing out this thing about her
25:52
Speaker 1: being inebriated. Well, you just don't get inebriated suddenly. If
25:57
Speaker 1: there's an agent in your dream, like a date great
25:59
Speaker 1: drug it's bam. I mean, you see it. The uptake
26:03
Speaker 1: is like really quickly, so you could have her with
26:05
Speaker 1: a normal gait walking about and then all of a
26:08
Speaker 1: sudden she's stumbling. She has to have somebody put their
26:11
Speaker 1: hands on her to aid her as she's walking along.
26:15
Speaker 1: And that's going to be a big tell with this,
26:17
Speaker 1: you know when all of this comes out. Now, back
26:20
Speaker 1: to this car, I'm you know they say that they
26:23
Speaker 1: question this guy. If they question this guy, I hope
26:26
Speaker 1: that they have an eye on this car, that they
26:29
Speaker 1: can get their hands on it as soon as possible
26:32
Speaker 1: so that they can check this car out and track
26:35
Speaker 1: its movements and also anything, I mean anything that might
26:39
Speaker 1: be a tie back to this precious girl. I want
26:42
Speaker 1: to add something off what you're saying, Joe Scott Morgan,
26:45
Speaker 1: And again, mister fleming with me is Gretchen's dad. I'm
26:50
Speaker 1: getting information about these stickers that are on the back
26:54
Speaker 1: of the Nissan Rogue Sport. They are Darth Vader stickers
26:58
Speaker 1: on the back pass singer windows, one on either side,
27:02
Speaker 1: and apparently there is a Outer Banks sticker on the
27:06
Speaker 1: rear window as well. Okay, Joe Scott Morgan, two words,
27:11
Speaker 1: Michelle Parker. Do you remember the People's Court mom who
27:15
Speaker 1: goes missing after she goes on People's Court and she
27:19
Speaker 1: and her fiance, the father of her twin children, are
27:22
Speaker 1: fighting mat an engagement ring. The day that it airs,
27:27
Speaker 1: she goes missing, and then her vehicle is found parked
27:31
Speaker 1: in a nearby apartment complex across the street from a mall.
27:34
Speaker 1: As I recall a big mall and the stickers it
27:38
Speaker 1: was for, I think a glow tan. She did, you know,
27:41
Speaker 1: would go to various homes and part of her business
27:46
Speaker 1: was that she would do these glow tans. There was
27:49
Speaker 1: a huge sticker on her car which made it highly recognizable.
27:54
Speaker 1: They had been very meticulously scraped off the vehicle, so
27:59
Speaker 1: somebody knew that that would give away the location of
28:03
Speaker 1: her car, and they did not want her car found.
28:05
Speaker 1: I think it was a cheap or hummer maybe, so
28:09
Speaker 1: jump in, Joe Scott Morgan. When you have these stickers
28:12
Speaker 1: on a car like this, it will give you an
28:14
Speaker 1: insight into the lives of people. Who they are, what
28:17
Speaker 1: they do, what their interests are, where they travel too.
28:20
Speaker 1: You know, in this case, you know we've got well,
28:24
Speaker 1: obviously Darth Vader maybe into Star Wars and also traveling
28:28
Speaker 1: you know outer Banks. Is this an in place that
28:32
Speaker 1: this individual goes to regularly to go get away from
28:35
Speaker 1: it all? Is that their place? Is that their thing?
28:37
Speaker 1: Do they have associates that'd like to go there? So
28:39
Speaker 1: it gives you an insight into their life and they're
28:42
Speaker 1: traveling to these locations in this particular in this particular vehicle,
28:47
Speaker 1: it goes to their style of life and how they live.
28:50
Speaker 1: Nancy can jump. Also, it's highly identifiable vehicle with stickers
28:54
Speaker 1: on it jump in, jump in share. I'm gonna call
28:56
Speaker 1: them Joe Scott's ripe. But there's a flip side of
28:58
Speaker 1: that coin and that is it goes to his crimes.
29:02
Speaker 1: Meaning this is a four door car. The Darth Vader
29:05
Speaker 1: stickers are on the bag like where children sit. Then
29:08
Speaker 1: that sticker with the outer Banks looks like those stickers
29:11
Speaker 1: that soccer moms put on where they go for the
29:13
Speaker 1: girls weekends. This car was non threatening. This isn't like
29:18
Speaker 1: he was in a windowless van or a big beat
29:20
Speaker 1: up peacup truck. This does not look like a kidnappers car.
29:24
Speaker 1: And that's on purpose, guys. This all occurs just before Christmas,
29:30
Speaker 1: but according to police, that is not slowing down the
29:34
Speaker 1: search for this gorgeous young girl. Gretchen take a listen
29:38
Speaker 1: hour cut ten or friends at WTAP sins Scratching was
29:42
Speaker 1: reported missing on December twelfth. Chief Board says the department
29:45
Speaker 1: has been working around the clock. The investigation has not
29:48
Speaker 1: slowed down. There are people dedicated specifically to this case.
29:52
Speaker 1: And as I said, the holidays didn't slow that down.
29:55
Speaker 1: Christmas even Christmas Day still working, so it is not
29:59
Speaker 1: slowed down with time at all of anything. At its
30:02
Speaker 1: gaining speed. So far, the department has issued and executed
30:06
Speaker 1: several search warrants. WTAP asked if the person of interest
30:09
Speaker 1: was a part of those search warrants. Chief Board cannot
30:12
Speaker 1: say out this time since it is an active investigation.
30:16
Speaker 1: I know it seems at times that we may not
30:18
Speaker 1: be forthcoming with information, but there's a reason for that
30:21
Speaker 1: and we release what we can. We've just seen in
30:24
Speaker 1: the Idaho case where police were actively trailing suspect. I'm
30:31
Speaker 1: not releasing the details because the suspect would have been
30:35
Speaker 1: known and altered his behavior. We saw the same thing
30:38
Speaker 1: in the Delphi double murder of Abbey and Libby. The
30:43
Speaker 1: local police held their cards close to the vest because
30:46
Speaker 1: if it had gotten out that there was a bullet
30:49
Speaker 1: they thought ejected from the gun of the purp lying
30:53
Speaker 1: between the two girls' bodies, the moment that would have
30:57
Speaker 1: come out, you know, it would have gotten rid of
31:01
Speaker 1: that gun in a minute, in a heartbeat. So all
31:05
Speaker 1: the evidence is not as not released to the public
31:09
Speaker 1: for a reason. Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. If you
31:31
Speaker 1: know or think you know anything about the disappearance of
31:35
Speaker 1: Gretchen Fleming, please call the tip line which is three
31:40
Speaker 1: zero four four two four one zero seven two repeat
31:45
Speaker 1: three zero four four two four one zero seven two.
31:50
Speaker 1: There is a very strong chance we can help bring
31:55
Speaker 1: Gretchen home alive. David Fleming is joining me. This is
32:00
Speaker 1: Gretchen's dad. And there have been reports that Gretchen was
32:05
Speaker 1: highly intoxicated at the time she was seen exiting the
32:11
Speaker 1: bar the my Way Lounge karaoke lounge. If she had
32:17
Speaker 1: been given HBO Ruthie, that's exactly how she would appear,
32:25
Speaker 1: drunk out of it, much the way I believe Natalie
32:28
Speaker 1: Holloway appeared when she left Carlos and Charlie's what can
32:31
Speaker 1: you tell me about Gretchen. I really don't have any
32:34
Speaker 1: information that you know, I'm just going on here say
32:37
Speaker 1: of what was reported, would she have gone out with
32:40
Speaker 1: her girlfriends and had a drinking party? Would she have
32:43
Speaker 1: done that? Or is it more likely that she was
32:46
Speaker 1: slipped something. You know, she probably went out and had
32:49
Speaker 1: some drinks, you know, not to say that it could
32:52
Speaker 1: have been both. You know, for instance, if somebody saw
32:54
Speaker 1: me appear intoxicated, they would my close friends would That's
32:58
Speaker 1: entirely wrong because I'm a tito Nancy. But I represented
33:04
Speaker 1: a client through a very attractive woman who was at
33:07
Speaker 1: a bar and she got raped and she had GHB
33:11
Speaker 1: put in her drink. Uh. She was arrested for fighting
33:17
Speaker 1: with police when she was dropped off at a fire station,
33:21
Speaker 1: and she became hugely intoxicated, just as Joe Joe mentioned,
33:28
Speaker 1: and she ultimately got charged. Interestingly, we had her blood
33:34
Speaker 1: because they took her blood, and we could not even
33:37
Speaker 1: find any substance like that. It is my belief that
33:41
Speaker 1: you can't. Some of those chemicals you're not able to
33:44
Speaker 1: find even with a blood draw, and Joe, it's metabolized
33:49
Speaker 1: very very quickly. The key is, if you have a
33:52
Speaker 1: suspect in a case like this, if you dig through
33:56
Speaker 1: their home, you dig through their through their car, they
33:59
Speaker 1: shouldn't be in poses of this. If they are in
34:01
Speaker 1: possession of this, again, it runs kind of parallel to
34:04
Speaker 1: the narrative. You want to know if they have it,
34:07
Speaker 1: do they have the ability to use it? And also
34:10
Speaker 1: if this individual has ever done anything like this before,
34:13
Speaker 1: that's going to be a big tale as well. I
34:15
Speaker 1: want to talk about the effects of Ruthie or GHB
34:17
Speaker 1: SCHERL McCollum. Wouldn't she have acted or appear to be drunk,
34:20
Speaker 1: There's no question about it. And here's what would be
34:23
Speaker 1: also part of them. Most likely he's gonna like escort
34:28
Speaker 1: her out. He's going to be like holding her elbow
34:30
Speaker 1: or maybe have his arm around her leading her away.
34:33
Speaker 1: And that's why I think this video is going to
34:35
Speaker 1: be so critical. This guy has been identified by police.
34:40
Speaker 1: We know who the POI is. Take a listen to
34:43
Speaker 1: our cut thirteen WTAP. Chief Ford says they believe the
34:47
Speaker 1: person of interest took Fleming to their residence. The person
34:50
Speaker 1: of interest originally told officials that they gave Fleming a
34:53
Speaker 1: ride and she departed at an unknown location. However, chief
34:57
Speaker 1: Ford says the story was inconsistent and to know surveillance
35:00
Speaker 1: footage led them to believe the person of interest took
35:03
Speaker 1: her to their residence. Officials have executed search warrants on
35:07
Speaker 1: the person of interest residence, car, electronic devices, and a
35:10
Speaker 1: storage building. Chief Ford says law enforcement spoke with a
35:14
Speaker 1: person of interest in the beginning of the investigation, but
35:17
Speaker 1: they are no longer giving police information. The Parkersburg Police
35:21
Speaker 1: Department returned to one of the locations that it first
35:24
Speaker 1: searched back on December fifteenth. Parkersburg Police Chief Matt Board
35:29
Speaker 1: confirmed that the home on the thirteen hundred block of
35:32
Speaker 1: Division Street is where the person of interest in the
35:36
Speaker 1: Gretchen Fleming case lives. Police are not releasing that person's
35:41
Speaker 1: name at this time. I'm learning a lot from what
35:43
Speaker 1: I just heard. Number One, everything we were talking about
35:46
Speaker 1: regarding gathering surveillance at that intersection where the POI says
35:52
Speaker 1: he dropped dra off. Forget that that's null and void,
35:56
Speaker 1: because now we know police say they have a dish information.
36:00
Speaker 1: I believe it to be CCTV or SIR surveillance video
36:05
Speaker 1: some sort that tells them he took her to his place.
36:12
Speaker 1: Now right there, Karen Stark, if he took her to
36:16
Speaker 1: his place and then she left? Why not just say
36:19
Speaker 1: that I brought her home. She wanted to leave, so
36:22
Speaker 1: I got her an uber. Why not say that if
36:26
Speaker 1: that's what happened. Why lie? If in fact he did lie, Well, Nancy,
36:30
Speaker 1: let's let's be clear about this. Those just the fact
36:33
Speaker 1: that he's no longer cooperating, That speaks volumes about him
36:38
Speaker 1: holding information and being concerned. And he would not tell
36:44
Speaker 1: the truth if he brought her back, because why would
36:47
Speaker 1: he would? That would make him be even more suspect.
36:52
Speaker 1: So this is a nefarious character, There's no doubt in
36:55
Speaker 1: my mind. Just just hearing that he's refusing to cooperate
36:59
Speaker 1: at this point, and it makes you wonder what would
37:03
Speaker 1: be the next steps that they would be taking. Well,
37:06
Speaker 1: another thing is I believe Karen Start, You're exactly correct,
37:10
Speaker 1: they're looking at the next step. Did anyone see that
37:14
Speaker 1: particular Nissan rogue after it went to his David Flemy?
37:22
Speaker 1: This is gretched his dad as in an apartment or
37:24
Speaker 1: a home. It was a real house, a rental home.
37:27
Speaker 1: I wonder if they're wanting surveillance or witnesses that saw
37:32
Speaker 1: the car after the car left the home. As a
37:36
Speaker 1: matter of fact, take a listen to our cut fifteen
37:39
Speaker 1: Gina Marini, and they want anyone who lives in that
37:42
Speaker 1: area to review their secure home security systems to see
37:45
Speaker 1: if this car is in any of the footage from
37:47
Speaker 1: early morning hours of December fourth through noon on the fit.
37:51
Speaker 1: Let's go over what we can see about the car
37:54
Speaker 1: that might help it stand out to you. Now, it's
37:56
Speaker 1: a black Nissan Rogue Sport. We don't know the year,
37:59
Speaker 1: but it seems to be fairly newar model. From this
38:02
Speaker 1: photo of the back there's a Pittsburgh Penguins vanity plate cover. Now,
38:06
Speaker 1: one distinct thing that might show up on your home footage.
38:10
Speaker 1: Both sides of the car have these Darth Vader decals
38:13
Speaker 1: on the backseat windows, as you can see in the photos.
38:16
Speaker 1: It's above the gas stoor and on the other side
38:18
Speaker 1: as well. And one more close up of the car,
38:20
Speaker 1: we can see an outer Bank sticker on the left
38:23
Speaker 1: side of the rear windshield. Nancy, I gotta jump in,
38:26
Speaker 1: please please do. I'm gonna go back to that video
38:29
Speaker 1: for a second. Whether or not she had her purse
38:31
Speaker 1: when she left is key. Second. If she had her purse,
38:35
Speaker 1: then her phone is going to paying wherever he took
38:38
Speaker 1: her to his residence or elsewhere. The other thing is
38:41
Speaker 1: who brought that purse back that phone would still be
38:45
Speaker 1: paying in. Well, it's my understanding she left the purse
38:48
Speaker 1: at the bar, the original bar perhaps, and the friend
38:52
Speaker 1: boy actually took it back when he couldn't find her
38:56
Speaker 1: to the bar where they originally met David Fleming. Do
39:00
Speaker 1: we know who handed the purse over to the establishment? Yeah?
39:06
Speaker 1: Who wasn't? And I don't want to say name. I
39:09
Speaker 1: don't need a name. I just need to know. Was
39:11
Speaker 1: it somebody there at the bar that night? Was it
39:13
Speaker 1: a waiter or a waitress? Was it the friend guy?
39:15
Speaker 1: It was? It was the friend guy that returned the
39:17
Speaker 1: first back to the guarden. Aha. Okay, that's telling me
39:21
Speaker 1: a lot. What do you make of that, Charyl McCollum Again,
39:23
Speaker 1: what I would focus on now is his cell phone
39:27
Speaker 1: pings and if they have flock cameras picking up his
39:30
Speaker 1: car all over town, where did he go after going
39:34
Speaker 1: to his home. That's a really good point. If he
39:39
Speaker 1: didn't go to the home, and we'll hope we know
39:41
Speaker 1: that he did go to the home. The cops have
39:43
Speaker 1: already told us that they believe he took her to
39:46
Speaker 1: the home and what Charyla was saying is where did
39:49
Speaker 1: he go? Immediately after? David Fleming is with me. This
39:52
Speaker 1: is Gretchen's dad. David. Has Gretchen ever stayed out of
39:57
Speaker 1: touch for this long? No, there is no doubt in
40:00
Speaker 1: my mind she has met with foul play. At this
40:03
Speaker 1: very moment, she could be being held against her will.
40:07
Speaker 1: Straight out to Crime Online's Dave Mack, what can you
40:10
Speaker 1: tell us? The search for Gretchen Fleming continues and the
40:13
Speaker 1: Parkersburg Police want everyone to know. The reward money for
40:16
Speaker 1: information regarding the disappearance of the twenty eight year old
40:18
Speaker 1: has been up to sixty five thousand dollars. Police report
40:22
Speaker 1: a reward of thirty two five hundred has been offered
40:25
Speaker 1: to anyone with substantial information concerning Fleming's physical location. A
40:30
Speaker 1: separate reward for the same amount has been offered for
40:32
Speaker 1: information leading to the arrest and conviction of anyone involved
40:36
Speaker 1: in Fleming's disappearance or physically harming the woman. Parkersburg Police
40:40
Speaker 1: Chief Matthew Board said Fleming's family attributes the substantial increases
40:43
Speaker 1: in reward money to business owners who quote care about
40:47
Speaker 1: Gretchen and the Parkersburg area and wanted to help, but
40:50
Speaker 1: wish to remain anonymous. Une As we go to air now,
40:55
Speaker 1: we understand that the human remains found in a wooded
40:58
Speaker 1: area on Cemetery Lifeane of all places, have been identified
41:03
Speaker 1: as that of missing man Wesley Maddox, missing since October,
41:09
Speaker 1: forty one year old Maddox went missing when he was
41:12
Speaker 1: reportedly walking to the drug store with his dog but
41:16
Speaker 1: never returned home. His mom, Jeans, says she is confident
41:20
Speaker 1: the body discovered on Cemetery Lane is that of her
41:24
Speaker 1: son and she is planning a memorial for him. We
41:29
Speaker 1: wait as the evidence unfalse. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing
41:34
Speaker 1: off Goodbye Friend,