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How Great Leaders Handle Difficult Conversations · TWRS-Leadership Straight, No Chaser

• Scott: If we think about it, conflict is part of everyday life, how we interact with individuals. But is there a chance that conflict can get overwhelming and actually impact how we interact with each other and the end results that we receive? Welcome back to Together We Are Stronger, Leadership Straight No Chasers. And tonight we have Liz Crowley on with us. And Liz, when I was looking at kind of the emphasis of what you do with individuals, conflict management. For you, what was it really that kind of was the nail in the coffin that you're like, we've gotta really figure out how we handle conflict and really work with it not to impact us? Because conflict can help, but do we get to a point that it's overboard and we actually make it worse than what it should be? Liz Crowley: I think The I you know, I've spent many years dealing with employee relations at all levels within within a company and doing consulting work and I think what we find or what I clients that I've worked with have found is that conflict is just really distracting. and it can dif distract people from what they're intended to be focused on. When you talk about leadership team, it can distract your most key contributors in how well the business can grow. and thrive if there's not a tight collaboration at that level. I'm not sure if that answered your question or if your was your question about why why we do or don't want conflict or why a little bit of both is helpful before it's destructive. Scott: think it's more of just as an individual, everyone that we talked to, there's something that took place really that drove the bus forward on this is why I do what I do. And so it's more Liz Crowley: Mm-hmm. Scott: of what was that rock bottom moment for you as an individual that really this became the emphasis and it's something that when you look at leaders and business owners, it's a aspect that is overlooked and sometimes you'll even see like people sweep it under the rug. and just let it sit there and fester instead of going and attacking it head on. Liz Crowley: Yeah, I don't you know, I don't know if rock bottom for me, but I feel like I have I worked in investment banking and brokerage and other financial services businesses and it was very volatile and there was just constant conflict. And so I think if if I were to think about something equivalent to rock bottom of like how am I gonna survive in this environment, which by the way I also loved. Like I loved the the challenge of getting through another day and another conflict and dealing with With someone who was more of a volatile personality with conflict on the radar day in and day out. I think I I thrived in that environment, although I had to learn how to read people and understand them and sort of use a lot of empathy to figure out ways to get through that conflict. But I also saw that conflict could be helpful, you know, in in successful cultures, conflict is sort of A positive as long as we know how to communicate the conflict in a constructive way in a way where we we all want to find value in the outcome from that. So I think for me it was dealing with conflict day in and day out, and then moving into human resources into leadership roles and dealing with conflict within you know staff level or employee level interactions with their managers, finding a lot of patterns with that that were really similar with the leadership teams and understanding. Understanding that you know, top to bottom, everyone's sort of a human, and when conflict raises its head, it depends on what human you are and whether you're you're able to handle conflict with humility and and openness, or whether it's really something that you know some people go inward and they're not sure how am I going to George R Dovolis: Mm. Liz Crowley: deal with this. And so they just don't, like you said, they just shove it under the rug and would put would prefer to just sort of push it off, but as we know that can fester and turn into something bigger that can. can be more destructive to that that relationship between those two people, or if you're talking about a team of people, leadership team or otherwise, it can sort of bleed into the the rest of the team and and then potentially become a cultural problem, right? So Scott: Mm. George R Dovolis: No. Scott: It it's it's an interesting thing because we see a lot of people they don't know how to do that inward reflection. And so they let the ego rise up and kind of get in their George R Dovolis: You break it up. It must be having Scott: own way and not reflect on what's taking place. And so it is one of those interesting things where instead of looking inward, we start looking outward or we start letting the ego get in the way, and then instead of conf Confronting the conflict because we're scared or we just don't want to have the conversation. We just let it fester. And then it doesn't help because you wonder why nobody wants to be around. You wonder why nobody wants to listen to you. Because at the end of the day, you have some idea that it's my way or the highway. And so it's just cutting people at the knees because of the aspect of not being able to look internally. And say, okay, is there something that I'm missing? Is there something that I need Liz Crowley: Yeah. Scott: to consider? And so it is a very interesting thing on that one where a lot of people will want to hide away from that and not confront it because they just don't want to look inward. Cause that's a lot of work though too, is a lot of people have the trouble of let me look inward, Liz Crowley: Yeah. Scott: what is it that I need to work on? and say I don't know everything. Liz Crowley: Yeah, and I think that you know, there's a range of types of leaders or or even just humans, right, that are willing to lean into that. And there are many who don't want to lean into that. And you know, there's a power dynamic, so depending on how whatever your role is, level is in in your personal life or in your work life, you may or may not feel comfortable leaning into that. I think the people that have a lot of humility and are, you know, their values are centered around honesty and integrity and and maybe being candid. They may still not know how to lean in a conflict into a conflict situation, but hopefully they would find a resource, whether it's personal resource or whether it's within a business, a trusted resource, that they could talk that through to have someone model that for them or give them some scenarios of how they might handle the situation. Situation and have maybe the real conversation about how it's not going to go away necessarily. It may get buried, and if you're talking about a personal relationship, that relationship may dissolve, or maybe it just moves forward in a different way that's a little bit fractured. If it's a business relationship, you know, again, the power dynamic, if it's a more senior person who's not interested in defining the clarity, then maybe the other person is sort of along for the ride and they may become disengaged and they may want to leave Scott: Yeah. Liz Crowley: the business. I think it really is a personal choice whether we want to lean into that discomfort, right? Because it does mean that we need to if we want to, we need to look at inward to your point about is there something that I'm saying, doing, or how I'm behaving that might be contributing to that? Like asking that question to just understand a different perspective. And that's where I think another person can help you think about that in maybe a third party way outside of that other person you have the conflict with. That that's not so there doesn't need to be defensiveness, right? 'Cause I'm just an outsider looking in saying, What about this? George R Dovolis: No. Scott: Mm. Liz Crowley: And so yeah, I think I think deciding to lean in and finding someone you can talk to about how to do that is probably your best resource. Scott: So I'm interested because I don't know if George is gonna like this, but George I don't remember if you recall when you and Ron had a situation George R Dovolis: Yeah. Scott: and this com th these two, I was like, Okay, we need to talk about it and then we get on a call and they look at each other and they act like nothing happened. And I was like, my goodness, like this is wild and so is it something that you see where Men have more of an issue of confronting the conflict and instead of like let me beat around the bush and act like it's not there or is it something that it's more of a female situation? 'Cause I know my experience with George and Ron, like I had to be the middleman, but they didn't want to sit and talk about it, even though we need to confront it. And we got over it. George did work, but it was a very interesting thing about they knew it needed to be talked about, but they didn't want to talk about it. Liz Crowley: Yeah, I mean I think that it would be an overgeneralization to say that it's just a man, a men, female or male thing. I really think it depends on the person. You know, there may be some some relevance to how, you know, men and women are children as children were raised differently in many cases. But I've worked with leaders who are very uninterested in dealing with any conflict with a male or a female. They were also the CEO. George R Dovolis: Mm. Liz Crowley: You know, I've also worked with people, you know, as friends who are very they just George R Dovolis: Well. Liz Crowley: they aren't capable of doing it, whether it's male or female. And I've worked with the same that are very open to it. A lot of Humility. Are oak like I think it's a confidence thing, right? Where you may feel confident enough that it's okay if I'm not perfect. I think perfection is kind of the devil in these situations where it's okay if I'm not perfect and let's talk about the ways that I'm not perfect. But you know, that requires an intense amount of trust, right? Because that means that I can come into the room with you and we can have George R Dovolis: Yes. Liz Crowley: a conversation, and I'm just not the only one being vulnerable, but we're having an actual real conversation about what part we both played in this situation. And again, in a person. Personal situation that's a little different than in a professional where there's probably a a power dynamic and someone's more in the lead role than not. But I think having those conversations really gonna depend on who are the two humans involved and what's their willingness to be open and engaged in the process. you know, opening the kimono a little bit on how they're feeling and also being willing to hear how the other person is feeling and not take it personally or feel defensive. That that's that makes it harder when that's the dynamic. Scott: So, right now I want to highlight one of our partners, ADP. And really, as a business owner, you didn't get in for the back end HR, compliance, payroll. But if you're causing yourself conflict by trying to run those things and it's not your zone of genius, you need to stop it, reach out to ADP, have a conversation, see how they can come in George R Dovolis: Mm-hmm. Scott: and work with you so that way you can stay in your zone of genius and best serve your clients and customers and build your business to the best of your ability. But it's One that as conflict arises, you had highlighted the aspect of performance and trust kind of getting degradated if it's not confronted, or if you let it boil over, that starts impacting the performance and the trust within the team. And at the end of the day, really your employers, your employees, your culture really is gonna drive things forward. But if that internal trust and the performance is not there. It's gonna impact how you show up, how you serve others. And so is it that trust is the biggest factor that starts eating into performance, or is it the performance that starts leading to trust when you don't take a c care of conflict and just let it show up and just sit there and it's like, Hey, we're not gonna front you. Liz Crowley: Yeah, I mean I think conflict it is a little separate from performance. I think when there are a couple kinds of areas that I think that are mostly predominant with conflict, which can be you know, a shift in what got us here won't get us there and everyone team isn't on board with like the new strategy for the business to grow to the next level. It can also be related to performance and that that has some conflict where I have to lean in and talk to you about I love you, you're awesome, I want you here and there's some issues, right? And so there's generally a power dynamic there as it relates to delivering performance feedback. But there's metrics with that too. So you can debate those metrics but you have information that's Tangible about why we're in this conversation. And then the third one, which might be the hardest, is that I am working with someone who I think is phenomenal. They're great at their job. They're an expert. The leadership team or the team around them thinks they're amazing and they're horrible to the people that directly report to them. They are leading with a heavy hand. They are forcing them to do more work, different work, lots of hours. They're abusive, they're hostile, they're potential discrimination. And that's a that's a hard one because as a CEO or or a leader of any group you really respect the the piece that's bringing in the revenue you know the piece that's really helping the business grow and thrive and the way they're doing it is completely contradictory to what I would presume might be values that you have which are you know let's treat people fairly and let's not be you know let's respect people let's engage people depends on what the values are and so that's a that's a tricky one because you need to have a conversation with that person and That may not go very well because a lot of the way we treat other people is really like what are our fundamental values, right? And what what's the foundation of that? And so these can be characteristics of a person that they might not so easily be willing to shed and it might be why they think they are successful. And so you know, those are the the kind of the three George R Dovolis: Mm-hmm. Liz Crowley: kind of areas where the conflict can be easy to address or it can it can get more complicated and potentially again impact the team and the the broader culture of the business. So it has to really be if if the fa if the leader of this hypothetical group really believes in the values of respect and dignity and and engagement and collaboration and candor or some you know mix there, they sort of have to walk the walk, right? And they have to hold that person accountable and that can be challenging. George R Dovolis: I love it. You know, Scott, I have to say thanks for throwing me in there, you know. gotta get a piece in there. And you know what's funny is now Ron and I laugh about that situation, but it it comes down that sometimes you do need a third party. Sometimes you need to hear both sides and they need to come together. You know, being an entrepreneur for forty plus years, you go through things and you know, and you can have a really good team. But if that team is treating people b you know below them horribly and you're not knowing, there's a problem in that leadership. And Liz Crowley: Mm-hmm. George R Dovolis: to me it's it starts from the top because as we interviewed other people and we have talked to other people that said, you know, you a great leader talks about how important it is to be in front of the rest of the team. And talk about the foundation of the company and to ask questions and not to be, well, you know, I have these people in front of me and they they're my gatekeeper. Is a lot of times leaders need to step outside and find out what is really going on. How Liz Crowley: Mm. George R Dovolis: is the company going? Why is our our our turn getting higher? And you know, I think it's something that become very dangerous. for leaders not to really see what's going on. And some of the questions Scott asks is I already you already answered, but when it comes to most on a when it comes to leadership, who's more dangerous at the table? A leadership that a leader that's angry or a leader that's silent and doesn't say a word? Liz Crowley: Well, I think it depends. I I'll tie it back to I you know, I listened to one of your podcasts about patience is like really critical for George R Dovolis: Mm. Liz Crowley: leaders, right? And I think I think being silent is it depends on what the circumstance are. It can be really powerful. Like let your team be able to be vocal without you coming in and saying, here's what I think, now what do you guys think? Right? I George R Dovolis: Yeah. Liz Crowley: mean that's then everyone has to decide do they want to get behind him or do they want to be, you know, contradictory. so I think that being silent can be good or it can be bad. It depends on the circumstance. probably would would lean more towards that than being more volatile and being more vocal and more dynamic. Because I think that, you know, one of the things about conflict is we can ignore it and it may it may go away. It won't totally go away and be resolved, George R Dovolis: Yeah. Liz Crowley: but it may go away and one person or the other just sort of absorbs himself and doesn't engage as much and sort of silent quitting, right? Quiet quitter. but When you come into a situation and you're you've you've sort of put it on hold and pushed it to the back of your mind, even though it's been distracting, you're like, I I don't have time to deal with this right now, then that explosiveness could happen, right? Where you're like, you know what, I can't do and maybe this is what you did, Scott, like, enough with this. We're just gonna get in a room and we're gonna talk about it, right? And George R Dovolis: Mm-hmm. Liz Crowley: the thing is when you're the person who's who has the conflict and you say, and you happen to be the most senior person in the room, I've had it, let's get in a room. You know, you're coming in hot and they're sort of like It's a little bit, you know, again, power dynamic, right? There's they're wondering how much can I really say? How candid can I really be? Do I need to just listen to them and just do what they say, or can I actually be an active participant in this conversation? So I I would say that probably in most cases, I wouldn't recommend the you know, getting fed up or or just coming in and being ready to be explosive and just like enough is enough, because George R Dovolis: Hm, yes. Liz Crowley: obviously that is going to put somebody on their back foot, they're probably potentially not even prepared. For that conversation. And then the patience, you know, like I said, the podcast I listened to you of yours that you had done. Patients, it's like, you know, get emotionally regulated. Like be patient with the process. Something's going on. It's probably with somebody you care about, somebody who's contributing in a meaningful way to the business. So take the time to figure out how you can resolve it. You know, we go back to talking with someone that you trust that can give you some guidance. Like take the time that you would spend on any other big, you know. know business initiative and do that with this person because if this is somebody on your C level team or somebody that's a senior leader that you value, trying to do you know, approach the situation in a way that feels like it could work for you and it could land with them in a way that they want to engage. I mean that's the best outcome, right? So, but patience is George R Dovolis: Love it. Liz Crowley: hard when you're feeling you know CEOs or founders or senior leaders, they're not always dealing with emotions, right? You guys know this. When you're going, you're going. You're do you're working on you know, every part of the business, it's go, go, go all day long. You got George R Dovolis: Yeah, both sort of things, so yeah. Liz Crowley: a lots of big teams you gotta manage. And so deciding to deal with this issue is means you have to slow down. And then sometimes you have feelings of frustration, anger, maybe hurt depending on what the situation is or what the com you know the conflict is. And that's not typically something you're feeling in work every day. Typically is go go go. So I think having a resource to be able to talk through that that you trust that can give you some feedback on the situation George R Dovolis: Love it. Liz Crowley: is George R Dovolis: That's huge. Scott: So right right now if you're getting nuggets from the video, hit the like button. If you're looking for these types of videos, hit the subscribe button. And really as you're listening, I think as you're sitting there, conflicts can showcase one of two things. Either there's a problem in the process or there is something going on with the individual. And so are you taking the time to actually extract and say, Okay, what is it slowing down? What is it that is there a process that we need to look at and fix or Is there something individually here that we gotta go deeper on and look at it at a human lens? And so, Liz, when you talk about the silence piece, George and I had talked about this, it's a very interesting thing about how introverted leaders actually are more impactful than extroverted leaders. And when you had talked about the silence piece, like listening, a lot of leaders don't take the time to let me okay, listen, let me see what they're seeing, what are they hearing, what's going on, and then let me formulate my answer that kind of brings everything into the fold. So that way you have the empowerment piece and you don't feel like you're getting ran over. But Liz Crowley: Mm-hmm. Scott: there's a lot of times that leaders don't take the time to be in the moment to be present saying, okay, what is it that is being showcased here? that I'm not aware of, but because I'm listening, I can start collecting that and then also open up the door and say, Okay, here's what's going on but it opens up where people feel empowered because they feel Liz Crowley: Mm-hmm. Scott: like they're part of the process instead of getting ran over and saying, No, this is what you're gonna do, this is the end of the line, this is the end of the story. Good luck. Thank you. Listen to me. Nobody else. Liz Crowley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think, you know, s slowing down and listening to your team and the silent, if you will, the silent CEO, you know, that that is gonna be exponentially better for the business because more people will engage. but it is harder to do. and you have to be curious, you know, you have to wanna hear and understand what people are saying. They may be saying George R Dovolis: Yes. Liz Crowley: things that are in conflict with what you want to hear. But I think having having moved from a place that was very directive and to a place that was a philanthrop in philanthropy that is was very you know, when you're you're working with a different you're not working with financial services sort of capitalistic workforce, you've moved into a place where people care about their roles, it takes a lot Of time to be a CEO who's going to allow people in the on the team at the table with the company to have their voice. It takes a lot of time to listen to others' perspectives and to consider those and to weigh them against each other. It's a lot easier to just say, thank you, no, thank you, here's what we're doing. So you do have to be somebody who really believes in hearing others' voices, as you said, and be willing to take the time and have patience again to be able to. to include people in that way because that is gonna what be what makes them feel engaged in their work and what makes them want to stick around and feel like they're actually contributing to the work, the overall work and the and the growth of or the success of the business. George R Dovolis: Have you been around CEOs and you've been around all over, right? And I hear loyalty all the time. You know, I'm loyal to this individual because they've been with the company for 20 years. And but sometimes that loyalty becomes the excuse for keeping someone who is the wrong individual for the team. How do you Liz Crowley: Mm-hmm. George R Dovolis: overcome that you see? someone in part of this team that's in this group that's like this is the wrong person for the group. You gotta the loyalty is great, but you you gotta make a business decision to cut and go. How do you tell that to a CEO that has loyalty for someone that's been with them for 10 years, 15 years? You know Liz Crowley: It's really hard, because I've worked with many founders and it's a little George R Dovolis: Yeah. Liz Crowley: it's harder for them because a lot of these people have worked for them since, you know, day one, two, three, whatever, early, early on. And, you know, there are circumstances related to those relationships and That's a hard one. I don't think that the end result is always or even most often that you part ways. I think sometimes you know, it gets to the CEO or the leader's values of in the end, you know, I know these facts about their contribution. A lot of times we try to find roles where they can be successful. it may be a different role, maybe looking at how much the you know, how are they working full-time? Do we want to have them be part-time? It oftentimes is more or likely they're not leaving, but we're finding a role or a way that they can still contribute that feels a little bit more relevant and in a way that they can still be successful. I think when I've worked with CEOs, it's a little bit easier to disconnect from that because they likely haven't may or may not have been, if they're not the founder, they probably haven't been the CEO the whole time. So there may be a little bit of a disconnect there. but it gets, you know, when someone's been there that long, because it's not as common now, at least in the the in the businesses that I've worked with. But when you see that, I think there may be a little bit more of a disconnect. So there might be more of a let's just look at the facts. We're gonna need to transition this person out. And let's be super fair with them about what a transition looks like. Let's give them a heads up. Let's give them a runway and let's figure out a way to make this it's not a win-win, but let's figure out how to make this as much of a smooth transition as we George R Dovolis: That's huge. Liz Crowley: can, if if really transition out is the only way that they are willing to move. George R Dovolis: I mean that's that's amazing. Scott: So with loyalty, because I've talked about it, there's times that loyalty can actually be a major sticking point for people. And like you said, it's not something that you see as often. Is there like a top item that a lot of leaders overlook or they allow it to become a sticking point that they're not aware of just because they're centered to everything? So if it's not loyalty, what is like that one big catch all that gets leaders caught up, that gets the businesses caught up because they're centered to everything. They just don't they just don't see it. Liz Crowley: What do you mean by get caught up with Scott: So like loyalty could potentially slow you down because you don't wanna let somebody go because you have that loyalty and you miss out on the growth piece. So like you had highlighted loyalty is not that big as what we would think it would be. So if it's not loyalty, what's that one like massive item that is overlooked just because the leaders, the business owners are centered to everything and they don't realize it's actually hindering them? Because they're just not aware. Liz Crowley: I think I mean I think loyalty can be you know, when we talk about twenty, twenty five long long term, I don't see as much of that. Again, I'm not in lar huge companies, I'm in smaller ten to twenty million dollar businesses. So that you know, I wanna put that caveat there. But I think that the institutional knowledge that you can have is important and so depending on what we mean by, you know, loyalty, I think people having institutional knowledge that is gonna be sort of gone when someone if someone leaves. That's something that really has to be weighed out because that impacts directly the you know the productivity and if efficiency and effectiveness of that role or that department. And then I think you know other things are what I mentioned earlier if you have sort of a bad actor who's bringing in you know 80% of your revenue that that potentially is going to be a challenge as well. And those aren't really these aren't really blind spots but these are areas where something good Good is coming to the business from the person, but George R Dovolis: huh. Liz Crowley: the the role or the person isn't necessarily great for the business. Like they're bringing in something, they're doing something in a way that only they can do, but it isn't necessarily best for the business or the or the team, I guess. if that makes sense. Scott: Hm. No, it George R Dovolis: yeah. Scott: does. George R Dovolis: You know, do you run into people saying, you know what, that's just how I am. What do you what I love this because you know what's that easy to tell you when someone that's the way I am? Liz Crowley: Yeah, I mean it depends on who you are and what how you are, what way you are, but I think That's gonna be, you know, the person or the leader who's in the room not being silent, right? That's sort of them saying, This is just who I am, and you're gonna have to accept how that is. and then again, if there's some power dynamic going on, I guess I'm gonna have to accept how how that is, or because it seems to me like there may not be an opportunity to say, Well, here's how that lands with me, right? So Everyone has to choose who they want to engage with personally and professionally. And if, you know, that's just the way I am feels offensive or contrary to the values of you personally or to the business, then that's a com that's kind of a com conversation that needs to happen, right? That's kind of where conflict starts. Here's how the way you usually are is kind of not aligned with our values or the way we want our people Scott: Mm. Liz Crowley: to see us or the leadership team show up. Here's how that doesn't work. So that's the beginning of a leaning and that's exactly one of the hardest kinds of things, right? Because everything else you're doing is amazing, but you know, that's just the way you are. There's this one thing that is just irking everyone, right? And I, as a senior person, have to come in. I have to come in George R Dovolis: Yes. Liz Crowley: and talk to you about it and say, I get that you're real comfortable, you know, just being the way you are, but if we were all just the way we are all the time, you know, it might be difficult for us to all figure out how to George R Dovolis: Why I brought that question up, Liza, why Scott and I laughing? Because I have used that in the past. You know, when you're an entrepreneur by yourself and you get Liz Crowley: Mm-hmm. George R Dovolis: people like, I'm this is how I am, and that's I'm putting my foot down, and Liz Crowley: Mm-hmm. George R Dovolis: there's no explaining nothing. That's why Scott. And it it's so funny. We have these conversations. and read I wrote down questions that I can even answer. And it's just, you know, being that entrepreneur, that's why Scott and I are laughing at it. And I'm listening to him going, man, this is turning Scott's mind. 'Cause you know, when we're done, hey, did you hear this? Did you hear this? And Liz Crowley: I mean, you know what, it works. It works really well when you're sort of working alone and it and then it it doesn't work if you are curious about what somebody else might feel about that, whatever that conversation or behavior, whatever George R Dovolis: Yeah. Liz Crowley: is. If you're not curious about it, it doesn't matter. Keep being yourself and people will choose whether to to engage with you. But that's the tricky part, right? Is that we have to stop and sort of George R Dovolis: Yeah, it is. Liz Crowley: which you know Scott mentioned earlier, like, do we want to look in s inward? Or or one of you mentioned, do we want to look inward? Or am I too busy to do that? Scott: Yeah. George R Dovolis: Yeah. Liz Crowley: Yeah. George R Dovolis: And now and there's there's you know, I truly believe in what you're talking about is there's there's time and a place for it in a sense like when Scott brought in Ron and I we act like, you know, as 'cause I didn't I am the most vocal one. I am the one who speaks the loudest. I I got tell you like it in black and white. Scott, you know, Ron Is a great buddy of mine for 20 years. We had an issue. And I'm like, you know what? You're right. I made an ass of myself. And I wanna own it. And so we start laughing about it because it's just like we're, you know, I'm sixty, Ron's seventy, you know, Scott's in his forties, and and it's like and now we laugh about it, you know, Ron and I, but it was something that You you're really trying to figure out where everyone sits and what everyone's doing. And when you are the founder Liz Crowley: Yeah. Well it's this may also be this may be a generalization, but I'm also right around your age, George. And I would say, you know, in your forties it's a little bit different, I think, as you as we age, again, generalization, my experience. We we learn to do what makes us feel better and not worry about what other people think. And that's a lot where that feeling of like, you know what, I'm just George R Dovolis: Yeah. Liz Crowley: this is who I am, right? We finally embraced who we are after a hundred years, right? George R Dovolis: Yes, we finally embraced, but sometimes that's not the good thing I realized. Liz Crowley: But yeah, right, but we have to recognize everyone else may not have and some of those people we might care about, right? Yeah. George R Dovolis: That's correct. And that's when really Scott really, you know, being that student, I think, you know, being being entrepreneur for four, you know, four decades and doing everything my way and to listen to what you have to say. I mean, being a founder, yes, I had teams and everything else, when I was younger, but as I got older, you give people opportunities and They don't have that vision, they don't have that desire, they don't have you know that what it takes. And it's very disappointing for someone, you know, in our age is like if someone gave me that opportunity in and and I was 20 years old to do something, to be something, I would do everything I can to take that opportunity. And unfortunately, individuals that you see today don't have that drive. They don't have, they just don't want to make they want to make a well, I I don't want to work too hard. You know? but yes, it it really when I said that's how I am, my wife will tell you, that's telling you, you're crossing a line with me. Cause I won't talk to you. Because if if I see that you're not on the same page as what we're trying to do, I'm not budging. And I have learned over my age to really kind of calm down, to listen, to hear people out, and Scott's over there smiling, you know. And it's it's really cool to hear what you're saying tonight and those nuggets that you're giving, you know, it's it's incredible. And 'cause I it's like, are you talking to me? Liz Crowley: Yeah. George R Dovolis: I'm dead serious and Scott's like, you're hearing this, George? And I'm reading my question Liz Crowley: Ha ha ha. George R Dovolis: like damn, I wrote these questions because of me. So you know, let me Liz Crowley: perfect. So I was I my target audience was right here. George R Dovolis: ask you, you've been you have all the titles, the meanings, the difficult conversations, the business accomplishments. And when it's all behind you, what do you want your legacy to be? What do you want people to think about? You know, what Liz accomplished, what do you want to leave behind for your legacy? Liz Crowley: You know, I feel like I'm I'm starting to think about that now, although it may be late, but I've transitioning out of corporate after a long time and getting to do what I wanna do, trying to figure out what do I wanna do from a, you know, personal contribution, how can I give George R Dovolis: Mm-hmm. Liz Crowley: back. right now what I wanna be able to do is continue to be able to help people that are in stressful, really intense, stressful situations. And, you know, I'm you know, my legacy really is is my kids, but apart from my kids being healthy, productive human beings and succeeding and feeling good about their lives, it really is to help other humans through really intense moments. where they George R Dovolis: Yes. Liz Crowley: don't see a path through w other than to come in with a hammer or to just ignore something. And so I would love to grow that and be able to just share that, you know, my my process for doing that work as broadly as possible because there's a there this, you know, it's lonely at the top. I don't need to tell you guys, you that there's not a lot of people to talk to when you're running a business and you actually have a problem with someone in your leadership team. You really shouldn't be talking to the other people on your leadership team, right? You should be talking to somebody that is not a part that and so I really would love to be able to share more of George R Dovolis: Good point. Liz Crowley: this messaging to the people that I think you know somebody asked why am I not doing you know mediation still internal in between manager and employee and that kind of thing it's because the person at the top if they want to be continue to evolve and grow and have a positive impact within their organization and have good relationships with their teams that just funnels down to the culture right so the more that I feel like I can impact someone who's running a business, I feel like that is going to permeate throughout the business. And we certainly have a need to have a better culture, better engagement, more more I forgot the word already, but have people really feel like a loyalty, you know, wanting to be at a business longer than two years because they feel like the the culture is really positive and additive to them. And so that I guess longer term, it's really I'd like to be in be able to impact businesses to grow and be better places for people to be, based on all the feedback I've heard from, you know, being in-house and doing consulting work on how many challenges there are with leadership teams and then having them push good culture. and good values throughout the organization. So I hope to be able to impact many, many organizations doing my work in the years to come. George R Dovolis: That's amazing. Scott: Yep. So that's interesting. One other partner that we have, Doctor Joey, kind of the evolution piece as a business owner. If you're stuck and you're at a hundred and fifty thousand to three million in revenue and you're trying to different things and you just don't know what to do and you're like, I don't know if I'll ever get over this hump. You need to reach out to Doctor Joey if your team needs help. Really his soul, his passion is really to see small business owners thrive. More revenue you have coming into your business, the bigger impact you can make. So if that's something that you need to have a conversation with Dr. Joey in the show notes, there'll be a link, schedule your call, talk to Dr. Doctor Joey on that one. And Liz, if individuals wanted to go deeper, connect with you at a deeper level, where Liz Crowley: Happy. Scott: would that be for them to go and connect with you? Liz Crowley: thanks for asking. you can connect with me on LinkedIn and I have a website, www.hrcollaborative solutions.com. Would welcome there's Calendly links if you'd like to schedule a few minutes to chat and connect, would welcome hearing from anyone that's listening that thinks that I could be helpful to them. Scott: Awesome. Yeah, we'll have that in the show notes so that way people can check on that one. And then Liz Crowley: Great. Thank you. Scott: of course you're welcome. We appreciate your you coming on and your time and sharing your nuggets and wisdom with us. But as you're finishing up, as you're listening to this, how are you facing conflict? Are you running into it or are you shying away from Liz Crowley: Mm. Scott: it? Because you'll have different results depending on what you're doing here. But we appreciate you guys coming on this journey with us, allowing us to be part George R Dovolis: Yes. Scott: of your journey, and we'll catch you on the next episode. George R Dovolis: Thank you.