Latest / The Nerdy Photographer Podcast / 151 - Drone Like a Pro: Tips, Tools & Rules for Aerial Photographers

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151 - Drone Like a Pro: Tips, Tools & Rules for Aerial Photographers · The Nerdy Photographer Podcast

0:04
Casey Fatchett: And steady forward,
0:06
Gulden Hauer: snug, snug, snug, snug, snug.
0:10
Casey Fatchett: Very funny, yes, I know anybody can steady
0:13
forward, hold there. Got a great view from this spot. Hey there.
0:18
Welcome to the nerdy photographer podcast. I'm your
0:20
host, Casey Fatchett, if this is your 13th time listening to the
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0:30
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0:36
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0:40
popular episodes, as well as good places to start, depending
0:43
on how far back you want to go into the archives. In addition
0:45
to providing entertaining and informative photography related
0:48
information, I also go on adventures with the crew of the
0:52
starship Fibonacci. At the moment, golden hour and I are
0:56
piloting some probes into a network of subterranean caves to
0:58
make sure that they're safe before we go in,
1:01
Gulden Hauer: snug, snug, snug, snug, snug, snug, snug, snug,
1:09
snug, snug, snug, snug, snug.
1:14
Casey Fatchett: I know you don't care about safety protocols. On
1:16
a similar note, in this episode of the podcast, I'm talking to
1:19
chase Goodman, photographer who literally wrote the book on
1:23
drone photography. We talked about how drones have impacted
1:26
photography, and things to keep in mind, if you want to get
1:28
started using drones and a whole lot more, be sure to check that
1:31
out after the break,
1:32
Gulden Hauer: snug, snug, snug and snug, snug, but
1:36
Casey Fatchett: there isn't supposed to be any movement down
1:42
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3:58
Hello and welcome to the nerdy photographer podcast. I'm your
4:00
host. Casey Fatchett, I'm here today with Chase Gutman, Chase,
4:06
welcome to the show.
4:09
Chase Guttman: Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me.
4:11
Casey Fatchett: Absolutely I mean, I mean some people say
4:14
that they're award winning photographers, but I'm just
4:17
going to read this list real quickly, because, I mean,
4:21
sometimes when people say that, I know, I just, I had to, I
4:24
like, was, you've won an Emmy, three time young Travel
4:28
Photographer of the Year, named a world's most successful travel
4:32
photographer by American Express, named world's top
4:35
travel photographer by Conde Nast Traveler. I mean, those
4:38
are, that's that like, those aren't the, you know, I won my
4:42
local photography group's best portrait of the year, or
4:46
something like that.
4:49
Chase Guttman: I appreciate that. Yeah, no, I feel very
4:51
blessed in my career that I've had many great opportunities and
4:55
some awards to show for it.
4:56
Casey Fatchett: Too. Awesome. That's awesome. And before we
4:57
get really into the conversation, we're going to
4:59
run. The dice breaker. It is a two. What is the worst
5:04
investment you've made in your photography career? The worst
5:08
purchase, worst purchase, or worst investment liquid?
5:12
Chase Guttman: Well, as someone who does a lot of stuff with
5:14
drones, I was in the in the drone space, and the very
5:18
beginning, when it was really a nascent industry, and so I
5:21
purchased a DJI Inspire drone, the first inspire ever, and it
5:26
was really not a very well refined product yet, because I
5:32
found out the hard way when I flew this $5,000 drone somewhere
5:36
in a field over by a fort, it fell out of the sky on very
5:41
spontaneously and crash into a million pieces. So I would have
5:44
to say the $5,000 drone in the early days that crashed and fell
5:48
out of the air on me was probably the worst.
5:50
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, there's, there's something to be said
5:52
for, you know, like, early adopters of things, and people
5:58
will often ask me, like, Oh, you're gonna get the first one
6:00
of something. I'm like, No, I I'm always like, I'll wait for
6:03
version two. I just they want them to work out smarter men
6:06
than me, clearly, because so many times early in my career,
6:09
I'm gonna say early in my career, I was always like, hey,
6:12
I'll try that. Like, what did? That sounds cool. And then
6:14
getting it and going, like they hadn't really thought
6:16
Unknown: about this yet. As you know, DJI has become, literally,
6:20
the leader in this space. But, you know, even in that early
6:22
days, they were still working out some cakes. Very clearly,
6:25
Casey Fatchett: I have, I am a customer of DJI, that the Osmo
6:31
pockets are some of my favorite things I've ever purchased from
6:35
anybody. Yes, it's Yeah. But anything when you, when you
6:40
start out making a new product. You you there's always some
6:44
growing pains. I think that the some people have learned the
6:49
hard way, I certainly have. It sounds like you did as well.
6:52
Yeah, absolutely. Why that question is on the list?
6:55
Chase Guttman: Yeah, and absolutely. And GoPro, actually,
6:57
I was working with them also in the early days of their drone
7:01
project, which ultimately failed, because they had the
7:03
very same problem. Their drones were falling out of the sky, and
7:06
they didn't understand why. So, you know, it seemed to be a very
7:10
common theme back in those early days, 2014 2015 you know, yeah,
7:14
Casey Fatchett: that's one of those things that you really
7:15
have to iron out when it comes to a drone, making sure it's
7:18
control. Control is vitally important, that is, that is a
7:24
one of the primary functions.
7:28
Chase Guttman: Absolutely, totally agree on that.
7:31
Casey Fatchett: So what drew you to travel photography?
7:36
Chase Guttman: Yeah, I grew up with a travel journalist as a
7:39
father. He's this award winning photographer. His name is Peter
7:42
Gutman. He three time one Lowell Thomas, travel journalist of the
7:45
year. He's the author of nearly 10 books on the topic of
7:49
photography and travel. And so he had this annual tradition,
7:54
sorry about the sound. He had this annual tradition where he
7:57
had this slideshow in his home that NPR called the hottest
8:01
ticket in New York City. And so I'd have like 80 to 90 strangers
8:05
in my apartment a few times a year toward the end of the year,
8:09
and he would pond this annual slideshow where he would show
8:12
his photographs from his travels around the world for that year.
8:14
And from that I saw the power of photography, the power of travel
8:18
photography, to be specific, and how people were engaged in his
8:22
stuff, how the oohs and ahs from the crowd to different
8:24
photographs, and how it inspired lots of people, because you'd
8:27
see people going to these events with notebooks and taking notes
8:30
on things to do or places to see. And I thought that was
8:34
really powerful. And ultimately, I've grown to really love travel
8:39
through my parents and photography has always been a
8:41
vessel of exploration for me, and it has brought me to an
8:45
untold number of places at this point, but it always allows me
8:48
to explore and see and experience new things, which I
8:51
think is really the ultimate blessing in life.
8:53
Casey Fatchett: That's amazing. I think that when you grow up in
8:57
that sort of environment, where it is, not only like encouraged,
9:05
but in a way, validated, I think, by you're seeing like you
9:09
said, like people oohing and eyeing and where you see that
9:12
like the effect that it has on other people, no matter what the
9:18
art is or whatever the thing is, when you're seeing that, it
9:23
creates a deep seed for as you mature and go through life, for
9:30
how you view the importance of things. Yeah, and absolutely.
9:35
Chase Guttman: And people were very passionate about these
9:37
slideshows. I mean, I mentioned one accolade NPR, but people
9:39
were coming from all over the country to come into our not
9:43
large apartment. It was a New York City apartment, so it was
9:46
very much not large, and it was just incredible to see the
9:49
passion and excitement around these, not just this event, but
9:54
the photographs in particular,
9:56
Casey Fatchett: yeah, that's, I mean, I think something to
9:59
cherish. Much. I mean, so as as this is sort of like growing
10:07
inside you've grown up with it, this feeling about trauma, how
10:12
do you make the sort of leap into doing it for yourself after
10:18
seeing it?
10:19
Chase Guttman: Yeah, so because of the encouragement of my
10:22
parents, I always had a camera in my hand. So, you know, at
10:25
first it was a toy camera, when I was just a baby, and it was a
10:28
point and shoot camera. And my parents were very passionate
10:31
about allowing me to explore my artistic impulses. So even as I
10:35
was five or six years old, and I would leave my point and shoot
10:38
camera behind, or I would drop it in the water or I would
10:41
destroy in whatever myriad of other creative ways a five or
10:44
six year old could conceive of. They continued to put a camera
10:48
back in my hand to allow me to see through my visions as I was
10:52
younger. And then obviously that point and shoot camera became a
10:55
DSLR camera, and I got really into photography in general. And
10:59
then when I was in high school, I won, as you mentioned in that
11:03
very kind introduction, I won young Travel Photographer of the
11:06
Year, which is this amazing international competition judged
11:09
by museum curators and magazine editors. And from that, I was
11:13
like, Oh, I can actually make a career out of this. Like, I
11:18
didn't realize quite how, how I could conceive of making a
11:23
career out of this. Even though my dad was doing that at the
11:25
time, I didn't realize I also might have had that same talent.
11:28
And, and that really jump started an interest in pursuing
11:32
photography. I had my photographs shown at the Royal
11:36
Geographical Society in London, and that's award I ultimately
11:39
ended up winning, I think, two more times and and for me,
11:43
that's when I was like, when I look at colleges, I want to now
11:46
look at places that will allow me to continue with this passion
11:49
of mine. And so on my college search at the time, I didn't
11:54
just want a photography program. I wanted something that was a
11:57
little more exciting and cutting edge. And so when I was looking
12:00
around, I was looking at schools that were doing stuff with
12:02
drugs. With drones, and this is in the very, very early days.
12:05
And I ended up finding the Newhouse School of
12:08
Communications at Syracuse University, and it had an entire
12:12
program devoted to doing stuff with drones. And to me, that was
12:15
super exciting, and that is what drew me to Syracuse. And then
12:19
when I got there, I pretty much became a part of this club of
12:22
drone nerds who they did everything from building drones
12:26
and and photographing for clients like the New York Times
12:30
to just, we just tinkered and played around. We would build
12:33
drones that were tethered so they had infinite power, because
12:36
they had the power source on the ground to a generator or
12:39
whatever it was. So we did all sorts of very creative things.
12:43
And through my time with the sky Works Project, which is what
12:46
this group of drone nerds was called, I was able to start
12:50
really a career around drones in particular, and that is
12:54
ultimately what led to my book project. I became one of the
12:57
authors of the first ever books on drone photography. And so
13:01
it's called the handbook of drone photography, and that
13:03
really jumpstarted my career, teaching about drones, using
13:07
drones, obviously, and and really, that's really where it
13:11
all started.
13:12
Casey Fatchett: I think that that's, it's such an interesting
13:14
perspective. And I mean, I obviously have, like, a
13:16
different historical perspective on this being older, but I think
13:21
that when I first started seeing drones coming into play in
13:26
photography, in video, I was kind of blown away by the like,
13:31
by a the the change in perspective. It's always
13:34
something I tell people, even when they've got a camera in
13:37
their hand, always be willing to change your perspective, because
13:40
it's not how you normally see things. And I think that drones
13:43
have given us such a different literal perspective on how to
13:48
view the world. And I'm curious how you made the jump from
13:56
camera like visually conceiving of shots, because I would love
14:01
to try drums. I have not got to the point of investing the money
14:04
in. I've had, like, some little drones.
14:06
Chase Guttman: I don't blame you. Camera equipment is
14:08
expensive. I don't blame you
14:10
Casey Fatchett: Right, I have some, have had some, like,
14:13
little drones that I've tried out. I'm like, Oh, this is fun,
14:16
but this really isn't like, it's not like a Mavic or anything
14:20
like, high quality whereas. But then I'm just like, do, when do
14:25
I make that jump into something like, I'm not, I'm not there yet
14:29
personally, but I love to, like the video and the photos, the
14:33
just being able to choose from all these different
14:36
perspectives. So I'm curious how your eye, like people talk about
14:40
like, having the eye for composition or whatever. Like,
14:44
how that changes from going from a, you know, a camera you're
14:48
holding in your hand to a camera that can be hundreds of feet in
14:52
the air, or, you know, like, way far away from where you're standing.
14:56
Chase Guttman: I think that's a fantastic question. I mean,
14:59
first of all, I think. You nailed you nailed it when you
15:02
said that perspective is really important in photography, I
15:05
always have encouraged people, when I teach photography, to
15:08
think about that changing of perspective, because all of us
15:11
are used to whatever view or height we stand at, or that
15:13
little standard view where we are right now, and going low or
15:17
going high or doing anything like that just makes an image
15:19
more interesting and unique, because it's not what we're used
15:22
to. And for me, drones are the democratization of perspective.
15:25
And as someone who is always passionate about perspective on
15:28
the ground, drones became incredibly exciting for me. I
15:32
always say that drones own the airspace just out of reach of
15:35
the longest selfie stick and below the skids of a lowest
15:38
hovering helicopter, they basically go where no other
15:40
technology can go, and I find that truly liberating in a world
15:44
where there is millions of photographs uploaded every day
15:47
across so many social media platforms and so perspective, to
15:50
me, as you said, is really important, and it really lends
15:54
itself to amazing stories. It lends itself to new angles, and
15:57
it lends itself to seeing things you wouldn't see otherwise, and
16:01
in terms of what you're saying, how does your eye change? It is
16:04
a bit of a learning curve. I mean, obviously, you're using
16:07
the same elements of composition and lighting when you're in the
16:10
air as you are on the ground, but you're seeing things you
16:12
might not normally see because it's a totally different view.
16:16
And so you learn to to look at Google Maps more when you're
16:20
scouting a scene, because you want to see what the aerial
16:22
perspective looks like, you learn to look around 360
16:27
degrees, because you're not using your own head, you're
16:29
using the camera's head, because you're not there with the
16:31
camera. So these are things that you have to learn over time, and
16:36
it definitely is a bit of a shift going from the ground to
16:39
the air, but nonetheless, perspective is what carries a
16:42
day on both, I think, both types of photography, and that truly
16:45
is what's exciting about drones for me.
16:48
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it's just that. He said, like, the you see
16:53
things in a completely different way. And, like, I think that's
16:56
one of the things that really draws me in about drone
16:59
photography, is seeing the world is, I think it's the age old,
17:04
like man's age old Commissioner, like being a bird or being like
17:10
being able to fly and see, there's just, there's just it.
17:14
It reaches something that is so deep inside our human
17:19
experience, to want to be able to fly, or to be able to like,
17:23
see that way, that the that just has such an effect on people.
17:30
What do you?
17:30
Chase Guttman: How do you how do you not find it exciting to be
17:32
like, soaring through the air? I mean, obviously you're not there
17:35
with the camera, but I always find that so fun. And the visual
17:38
effects, not just through photography, but also
17:40
videography of kind of soaring through the sky. I think it was
17:43
really unmatched.
17:44
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I think that even like FPV videos always
17:47
sort of absolutely, like, I was pretty, a pretty good game
17:51
controller person. But there's something about like, oh, like,
17:55
I am flying, actually flying this drone through, like, just
17:58
like the things that people who are at the top of the game can
18:02
do are really outstanding and really pretty incredible. So for
18:09
people who are looking again, what do you think some of the
18:11
biggest challenges are that you face starting out as a drone
18:17
photographer? Yeah.
18:19
Chase Guttman: I mean, the challenges, as you said, are
18:23
first technical, right? You need to know how to fly a drone. For
18:27
me, I always recommend people start on what you basically
18:30
talked about, Casey, a trainer drone, like a smaller, for lack
18:33
of better term bullshit, drone you don't mind crashing, or you
18:36
don't mind, you know, damaging in some sort of way. Just to get
18:39
a sense of the sticks, how to fly, how to navigate spaces. And
18:44
then from there, there's always rules and regulations to
18:47
consider as well. So from those early days of drones, we had,
18:52
you know, a drone that accidentally landed on the White
18:54
House lawn. We had a drone that, you know, crashed into the Grand
18:57
Prismatic Spring and yellow and Yellowstone. So because of that,
19:01
we have all these rules now that we have to follow. And you know,
19:04
rightfully so and so these are all things that you have to
19:06
consider when you are starting out. You know, staying below 400
19:10
feet, staying certain distances from airports, staying clear of
19:13
national parks. These are all things that you need to consider
19:16
as well. Battery life is a massive consideration when
19:20
flying with drones, I can't tell you the number of times when the
19:24
lighting is just so good and you have the right composition and
19:27
you just want one more video, but that battery it makes you
19:29
won't need to fly back for more. So always carrying extra
19:32
batteries is really important as well. So there's a lot of
19:36
considerations, from the ethical to the legal to the logistical.
19:40
So there's a lot of things to think about when you're doing
19:43
with dealing with drones.
19:44
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I think that. I think there's some
19:46
people who unfortunately think that, well, you know, what's the
19:50
big deal? Like, why? You know, in the considerations, like you
19:54
said, crashing into, you know, the spring, the Yellowstone, or,
19:58
like, what during the wild. The fires in Los Angeles, colliding
20:02
with one of the tanker planes and damaging that like, there
20:06
are things that to, you know, yeah, don't be selfish and think
20:10
of only if, like, I gotta get this shot because, I mean,
20:14
what's in, what's the, what's the big deal with it? Like, we
20:18
have to think of the effect of, what if this thing does fall out
20:22
of the sky or collides with something, if you're putting
20:25
people in danger, or you know that that's like, no shot is
20:29
worth that? Like, that's, that's the, I think, my main thought on
20:33
that
20:35
Chase Guttman: I absolutely agree, yeah.
20:38
Casey Fatchett: So you're using these drones as a as part of
20:41
your travel fight. What are the difficulties I have enough
20:45
trouble like flying with my regular camera gear? Like, are
20:49
there any things that people really need to keep in mind
20:52
about, like, traveling with a drone that would like to offer
20:56
advice on? Because, I mean, I always have my advice of, like,
21:00
don't ever back your camera. Like, don't ever check your
21:04
camera, because that's just a recipe for disaster. But I don't
21:08
know, like, What the what? What do you what's your advice in
21:11
regards to drones?
21:13
Chase Guttman: Yeah, I'm totally in agreement with you, Casey,
21:15
same thing applies to drones. Keep that drone on your person,
21:18
in the cabin. Let's not put it under the plane. I mean, first
21:21
of all, there's the consideration of the well being
21:24
of the of the drone, but also with, with regards to the
21:26
lithium ion batteries, they can't actually go down below, so
21:29
they have to stay with you. That's one important thing to
21:32
consider. Generally, for most locations you fly to around the
21:36
world, the laws are structured very similar to that in the
21:39
United States, you have to stay below a certain height. Have to
21:42
stay a certain distance away from from airports. Outside of
21:46
those more mainstream countries, there are sometimes lots of
21:50
different rules you are will encounter. So I always recommend
21:53
people researching ahead of time the country they're going to the
21:57
laws in that country. For example, I didn't bring my drone
22:00
to Cuba because it is banned there. And I know they are known
22:02
to confiscate drones in the UAE. They also take your drone, but
22:07
it has a short stay, rather than a permanent stay, when they take
22:11
it from you. And so there's always different laws to
22:14
consider for sure. And then there's also the ethical
22:17
considerations as well, which I think we alluded to, which is,
22:21
you know, you want to make sure you're respectful of people
22:24
trying to enjoy nature, which is, you know, why it's not
22:26
allowed in national parks, among other reasons and and always,
22:30
like you said, not just think selfishly, think about other
22:33
people around you and try to be considerate, you
22:35
Casey Fatchett: know, I think about wildlife and stuff as
22:37
well. Sure, too many videos of people crashing, you know,
22:42
drones into like, where there's because they're trying to get a
22:46
shot of like, I think they're, they're not paying attention to
22:50
the the their battery life, and realizing they're going to fall
22:53
out of the sky very soon, and because they're just trying to
22:56
get that shot. I think it's a, I don't know, maybe the the
23:02
balance, of letting go of our desire to always get the the
23:09
content, as well as, you know, respect for our surroundings,
23:15
the people and animals within.
23:18
Chase Guttman: Yeah. Drones are awe inspiring tool, if used
23:21
correctly, if not used correctly, you can get yourself
23:23
into some trouble. So you have to, you have to be careful. It
23:26
just, it's another amazing storytelling tool. We have to be
23:28
careful how you use it.
23:30
Casey Fatchett: Yes, absolutely. So what do you think the biggest
23:32
misconceptions that people who don't use drones have about
23:37
drones or what is who? What malignments of drone
23:41
photography. Do you think are out there that are unwarranted?
23:45
Chase Guttman: Yeah, I think a lot of people imagine drones is
23:48
just this device that has to go immediately to the highest
23:51
possible spot in the sky, and that's not how I like to use
23:55
drones, as I kind of mentioned, I think they own this very
23:58
unique airspace that is beneath where planes and helicopters can
24:01
go, but above where we can reach with our own hands. And so for
24:04
me, that's like the sweet stop spot is like 50 to 150 feet
24:08
where you can get a different perspective, but it's not
24:11
something that a helicopter or a plane could get in that way.
24:15
You're also able to layer images more as well, because a lot of
24:18
people think of the famous look down shot where you just point
24:21
the camera straight down, and you get what is ultimately a
24:24
very cool image, if you get some geometry or symmetry or
24:27
patterns, but it doesn't show much in terms of layering. And
24:31
so if you shoot across from you, like at a 45 degree angle,
24:34
rather than at the 90 degree angle, you're able to get more
24:37
of that kind of layering that we're talking about, where you
24:39
can have that foreground, middle ground background, and kind of
24:42
create more of a story. And you know that's useful in all manner
24:45
of landscapes and cityscapes or wherever you are using drones.
24:49
So I think people will often associate drones as going too
24:52
high and looking straight down, saying you don't have to do
24:54
either of those two things. You can go just a little bit above
24:57
where you might be able to reach and then also just. Change your
25:00
angle a
25:00
Casey Fatchett: little bit as well. Yeah, I think that the
25:02
most I mean, what I agree with you, like the straight down
25:06
shot, I think, is you really have to know what your like,
25:10
your composition is going to be. That composition becomes like,
25:14
super important. Otherwise it just becomes like, Well, why?
25:17
Why are we looking at it from this perspective and having
25:20
like, whatever symmetry lines, whatever is happening there. But
25:24
yeah, the the shots that I think, I always think of these,
25:29
I refer to them, to them as just over the cliff, shots of people
25:33
that people take, you know, where you're getting, like,
25:36
whether it's a gorge or the ocean or something below, and
25:41
you're getting that the cliff, the forest or whatever
25:46
vegetation, and then there's something off in the background,
25:48
whether it be a castle or a mountain or trees or whatever it
25:52
is, like you're saying, the layering of it, and being able
25:54
to see it from a way that we are so unused to seeing things. And
25:58
like you said, it doesn't have to be that high. That could be a
26:02
3050, foot, you know, up in the air that you can, you can get
26:07
that shot from, but you are so there's no way you're going to
26:10
get there, because there isn't a mountain there or a ledge or
26:14
something you always see when my wife and I go driving, she
26:18
points out, oh, scenic overlook coming.
26:22
Chase Guttman: That's always trouble for a photographer,
26:25
yeah, what kind of photography you do?
26:27
Casey Fatchett: Yeah? I was like, Oh, I'm gonna stop because
26:30
you gotta check out what it is, pretty Scenic. But the be the
26:33
ability to create your own scenic overlook pretty much
26:38
wherever you go, or most places you go with whatever
26:41
limitations, but like, being able to create that sort of
26:45
perspective, as we said before, is is incredibly intriguing to
26:51
me, and I'm sure, like for someone who's active with a
26:54
very, very rewarding and satisfying to be able to find
26:59
all of those angles and just be able to, like, play with that
27:02
and, like you said, layer it up. But how deep Can I go in this
27:10
composition?
27:11
Chase Guttman: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, as you said, there's
27:13
like, an infinite number of configurations and angles to
27:16
experiment with or to test out. And because we're not limited by
27:19
our own physical abilities, right? We can bring it any which
27:22
way. We can tinker with high we can tinker with angle, we can
27:25
tinker with pitch and yaw. There's all sorts of different
27:29
ways and axes in which you can play with the drone. And that is
27:32
just an infinite number of possibilities.
27:35
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I think that that's that we tend to get
27:41
stuck, like, if we need stuff, like, you see your, your sort of
27:45
like, your, whatever your height, and just saying, like,
27:49
Okay, well, this is where how I see the world, and being able to
27:53
recondition your brain to be able to see in all those
27:57
Different ways, or to be open to that many possibilities, I
28:03
think, is, mean, do you find yourself getting into a rut with
28:06
the drone, like, where you're sitting there? You find yourself
28:08
like, shooting the same kind of shot like you would with the
28:10
camera in your hand? Or do you like, or do you are you
28:15
constantly sort of reminded that I've got to, you know, look at
28:19
this from a different perspective. Yeah.
28:21
Chase Guttman: I mean, just with any kind of photographic
28:24
equipment, you can easily get tunnel vision toward whatever
28:27
you're trying to shoot. And so, as I was mentioning before,
28:29
making sure you kind of do that 360 degree look around. That
28:32
certainly applies to a drone too. Because you can't, you're
28:35
not physically there. You have to use that tool to look around
28:38
and see all the different things that you can see all the
28:42
different opportunities that present itself within the scene.
28:46
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I mean, I'm just imagining, like, okay,
28:48
it's the, I don't know, I've been in that situation on the
28:52
ground where, like, you've been somewhere, like, Oh, this is a
28:54
beautiful picture. Then people, like, turn around, and they turn
28:57
around, they're like, oh, that's an even better photo that was
29:01
behind you that you just hadn't thought about. Yeah, I think
29:04
they were saying is stay stay fresh and stay like aware that
29:10
you need to check your baffles and see what's going on behind
29:16
you or around you that you might not notice. So we kind of
29:21
touched on this a little bit when you're traveling with your
29:26
drone and you're flying around, like, are there specific I mean,
29:32
you talk about doing your research, but they're there when
29:34
you're talking about, like, the ethical and legal considerations
29:37
of flying around, when you're like, even if you know, like,
29:43
the the laws of the land, whatever particular land that
29:45
you're in, are there other considerations that you take in
29:48
to like, other things you take into consideration when you're
29:52
about to fly somewhere that you haven't been before, when you're
29:56
like, a new country or area where you're. I mean, not just
30:03
familiar, not familiar physically, with the area
30:06
itself.
30:07
Chase Guttman: Yeah, absolutely. I mean research and preparation
30:10
is key anywhere you go in the world, any kind of photography
30:13
that you're doing, I think it's super important to know and
30:16
understand the culture of where you're going to be, the do's and
30:19
don'ts. It's also really great to see the body of work that's
30:24
been done at a destination, trying to see what's been done
30:27
before, what kind of things you want to mimic, what kind of
30:30
things you want to shy away from, what kind of things you
30:32
want to improve on. These are all things that I think are very
30:35
integral anytime you travel anywhere in the world. The drone
30:39
is, as I said, an important tool, and you need to think
30:42
about the legal ramifications in any destination you go to as
30:45
well. But as a photographer and as a curious individual, it's
30:48
also important to engage with the culture and with the
30:51
destination in a way that is more than just showing up with
30:54
your camera.
30:55
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, knowing that, getting to know the where
30:58
you are going to be, and having a sense of it is, I think, you
31:03
said, doesn't matter if it's a drone or a regular camera,
31:06
having a reverence, I think, for absolutely great word, where
31:11
you're going to be and the people who are around you, the
31:15
wildlife, The the you know, inhabitants, the ecosystem that
31:22
you're in. I think that some people, like, they kind of think
31:26
of, oh, if my drone crashes, like, No, you know, whatever, I
31:30
lost it, then mouth. But it's also like, Yeah, but did it?
31:32
Where did it crash? And what's happening to Yeah, you're
31:36
dumping a piece of plastic and, like you said, a battery into,
31:39
you know, somewhere, like into the water system or whatever
31:45
things to consider. So I'm curious, since you've been using
31:54
the drones for a while, what do you do to keep your enthusiasm
32:02
level up for this, because I'm guessing that there is, as with
32:09
anything a you can find yourself in a rut creatively or just like
32:16
in like how you How you approach things you can get into. It's
32:22
very easy to get into patterns and just doing the same sorts of
32:27
things. What sort of other exercises that you do, I mean,
32:31
like the things that you when you're approaching a shoot and
32:35
going, like, Okay, I'm going to do these things specifically, or
32:38
just a mindset that you get into to like help open yourself up,
32:44
to, like, the new experience, or to approach it from a fresh
32:48
perspective, as opposed to, this is the way I've done it before.
32:51
I'm just gonna do the same thing again. Yeah.
32:55
Chase Guttman: So in terms of, like, the workflow, I think it's
32:57
kind of what you're getting at a little bit here is I always
33:01
first start with research, as we were talking about, you know,
33:04
looking ahead at what's been done, looking at the
33:06
destination, but for specifically drones, that often
33:09
involves Google Maps, looking at the satellites, seeing where I
33:12
could take off from, seeing where I can land, seeing what a
33:15
look down shot would theoretically might even look
33:18
like from that exact spot, and then also seeing where nearby
33:22
mountains are, seeing what could appear in the background, using
33:26
the classic landscape photography tools that a lot of
33:28
people use to look at lighting, where the sun will be in the
33:31
sky, when blue hour is going to be in effect, all of those
33:34
things are really important as well. Formulating a shot list,
33:37
even if it doesn't have to be a formal written down one at least
33:40
one in your head, that kind of gives you a good concept of what
33:44
you want to get and and then also allowing a little of
33:47
serendipity to take over as well. We talked about kind of
33:50
doing that look around with that drone, that kind of orbit where
33:53
you look at every direction. If there's something that is more
33:56
awe inspiring or exciting, go pursue it. Go Go chase it with
34:00
your drone. And thankfully, you don't have to physically do
34:02
that. And that's what the beauty of the drone is, in some ways as
34:05
well. So those are different ways that I approach it. But to
34:09
me, you know, I anything, as you said, can get boring after a
34:13
while. But for me, drones and travel are kind of married, and
34:17
travel has always been very exciting to me, and just the
34:19
ability to explore the world and cultivate a wide variety of
34:23
experiences is, to me, ultimately, the meaning of life,
34:26
and so drones and photography in general has allowed me to do
34:29
that. And so so long as I'm traveling, it's hard for me to
34:32
get too much in a rut at home. That's a different story.
34:35
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I guess another question
34:39
here is like, where do you see the future of drone photography
34:44
going? Yeah. Where do you see the what are like the, I mean,
34:50
immediate future, as well as, like, maybe long term future of
34:54
drones? Yeah.
34:56
Chase Guttman: I mean, drones are changing so very quickly
34:58
that book that I wrote. All the way back in 2016 2017 now is so
35:02
outdated, not a single model there is now still available on
35:06
shelves. They've been replaced multiple iterations over. So the
35:09
technology is changing very quickly, and obviously that
35:13
means things are getting smaller and lighter. The camera is
35:16
getting better and higher quality. The sound is getting a
35:19
little less annoying. The battery is lasting longer. So
35:23
there's a lot of exciting technological things in terms of
35:26
uses as well. I think people are conceiving of all sorts of
35:29
interesting ways to use drones, even outside of photography.
35:33
I've seen so many fascinating use cases, just in industrial
35:37
and commercial realms as well. But in terms of photography,
35:41
people are doing great stuff with time lapses. FPV was a
35:44
great thing that you mentioned as well. I've seen people use
35:48
drones to light an area landscape photography, which I
35:51
think is really cool. But overall, drones are just become
35:54
this essential storytelling tool that no matter what project
35:57
you're on, whether you're you know you're working on a
35:59
documentary or or marketing, whatever it is, you pretty much
36:03
need to have a drones perspective in it. And I think
36:06
that will be the lasting impact of drones, is that they're just
36:09
an essential tool nowadays.
36:10
Casey Fatchett: Well, I see it's very interesting, like you had
36:12
mentioned, like lighting stuff. Like, I see people doing like
36:15
light painting, exactly like for long exposures with drones, or
36:19
like they're they're creating, you know, like light paintings
36:23
in the sky behind stuff. Russell kleimas does this a lot. He's a
36:29
photographer who's been on the show, but is like he would, he
36:33
does all sorts of different things, but they like that, just
36:35
like painting figures or shapes using, like, lights on a drone,
36:41
or, like you said, like actually lighting parts of the landscape,
36:46
just like things that we didn't have, like, oh, it'd be great if
36:50
I could put a light 70 feet up in the air and just like a 45
36:57
and, you know, whatever, like key light this scene and
37:00
whatever. But how am I going to do that? Like, like, something
37:03
that, again, 10 years ago, you never would have thought was a
37:06
possibility. Is now suddenly possible. And just seeing the
37:10
the ways in which drones are used, like you said that we're
37:15
talking about the fpvs, like, all the commercials that I've
37:18
seen, like, shot these great, like, local commercials for,
37:22
like, venues where you just have like, an FPV drone guy, like,
37:25
flying through this business and, like, you know, showing you
37:28
what this bowling alley or whatever is going to be like,
37:31
you're like, Oh, I kind of want to go there. Now, it's really,
37:33
like these, you just created this really engaging and, like,
37:36
I immersive in the way, because you're like, you're going
37:38
through this place in the drone, but it's also the and the minute
37:44
I saw it, I was like, this is gonna get overused in movies
37:47
somehow, because it's become such a like, it's a cheap
37:50
screenshot in a lot of ways. And there's, I mean, it's good and
37:54
it's bad, but I've like, seen a few, like, action movies where I
37:57
was like, Yeah, that's exactly like, why? What is the purpose
38:00
of this? Like, you could get overused, as they were, just
38:04
like, we're gonna they obviously paid somebody who was a very
38:07
good drone operator, like, a considerable amount of money. So
38:10
they wanted to get as many shots as they could into this, you
38:14
know, action movie like, and have a chase scene where we
38:18
could use the drones, which is like a anything like, you have
38:21
to know your limits system. What, like, yeah, how much is
38:25
good? Too much, you know, oversaturating it. I'm curious.
38:30
Like, you see, you mentioned your dad's travel photographer.
38:33
How does he feel about drones and like, how you like? I'm just
38:36
kind of curious if that's something where he's like, Man,
38:41
I wish I had that when I was Yeah.
38:43
Chase Guttman: I mean, who doesn't wish they haven't
38:45
sometimes. I mean, I Yeah, no, my dad is a film photographer
38:50
for a long time, so he still shoots film by and large. So
38:54
yeah, he is always jealous when he sees the the kind of stuff
38:56
and angles I'm getting. So I'm just like, Can I can I get a
38:59
quick shot? Yeah, no, it's a it's such a fantastic tool. And,
39:05
as we kind of talked about, just see so many different and new
39:08
things that it's hard not to get giddy about it if you are a
39:11
visual artist of any kind. So yeah, absolutely, he certainly
39:16
has, gets jealous of it sometimes, and and he's, I
39:19
think, has considered getting a drone himself as well.
39:22
Casey Fatchett: Could be coming to you for advice for it. So
39:25
speaking of advice, what we haven't covered, what sort of
39:31
advice would you give to somebody who's like, considering
39:34
getting a drone like is past the, let's say, river past the
39:38
bullshit drone stage, and they're considering, you know,
39:42
getting into what advice do you have for somebody who's taking a
39:46
serious step into drone photography or videography? Is
39:52
there something
39:53
Chase Guttman: I think the first sort of business is, like, we're
39:56
talking a lot about travel here. That's something I do. And I'm
39:59
obviously very. Passionate about, but travel. It can also
40:01
be in your own backyard. This is not something you have to go to
40:04
another state or another country for. Like, there is so many
40:07
amazing things in our surrounding areas that is super
40:11
inspiring and exciting and engaging and and, and that's
40:15
really where I would start, is, where can you bring the drone to
40:18
get cool photographs in your own neighborhood, in your own city,
40:22
and and just starting with that, and then building from there,
40:26
your eye building from there, your understanding of how
40:29
lighting and golden hour and blue hour, how that looks
40:31
different from the sky than it does on the ground, how
40:34
composition, you know, lines and patterns and geometry, becomes a
40:38
lot more important than the air than it might be on the ground,
40:40
how composition has a slightly different look to it as well.
40:44
And you know, still following those same guiding principles
40:47
that we all tend to use in photography, now, trying to be
40:51
up early so we can get that good light, or out late so we can get
40:54
the good light and and always looking for new and an
40:57
interesting perspectives. These are all things that are very
41:02
lasting In a photograph, and it's no different with drones
41:06
either.
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43:32
Unknown: Hey. Now for my favorite part of the show,
43:36
what's that? Say? Useless information. This is always
43:42
death
43:44
Casey Fatchett: Chase, true or false. Norway once knighted a
43:49
penguin.
43:51
Chase Guttman: Ooh, I hope it's true, because that's fantastic.
43:54
If it is. It is true
43:56
Casey Fatchett: in 2008 King Harold, the fifth of Norway
44:01
approved knighthood for Sir Nils Olav, a penguin from the
44:05
Edinburgh Zoo in Scotland that was adopted by a Norwegian
44:10
military unit. That's amazing. He's the Scottish Norway
44:16
connection on penguins. I am impressed that there's a little
44:22
there could
44:22
Chase Guttman: hold over there. But, yeah, like, do we know what
44:24
kind of do we know what kind of penguin?
44:25
Casey Fatchett: No, there's, we have no knowledge on that. I'm
44:27
sure I could look it up. Sir Neil, so love, I mean, he's got
44:31
it, he's knighted, he's got a he's got a title.
44:34
Chase Guttman: That Penguin's more distinguished than me.
44:38
Casey Fatchett: Now, I don't know. I mean, like I said,
44:39
you've got the awards, maybe it may be pretty even Chase. Thank
44:44
you for being on where can people find you? Do you have any
44:47
new books, drawing, photography, since the
44:51
Chase Guttman: no new book, but again, thank you for having me.
44:53
Casey, yeah, you can find me at Chase. Gutman.com, Chase spelled
44:56
like the bank, G, U, T, T, M, a n, and then I'll. So at Chase
45:00
Gutman on Instagram, but yeah, thank you again.
45:04
Casey Fatchett: I'll include those links in the Episode
45:05
Notes. You're welcome back anytime. I really appreciate
45:15
Welcome back. I want to thank Chase Guttman for coming on the
45:19
show and talking drones with us. You can find Chase's links in
45:23
the Episode Notes, and while you're clicking on links, be
45:26
sure to subscribe to this show. Leave a review. Why? Because
45:30
they help new listeners find this podcast and follow along
45:33
with the nerdy photographer on social media. At the nerdy photo
45:37
that's at the nerdy photo, no dots, underscores or dashes on
45:41
Instagram, blue sky threads, tick tock and Reddit. You don't
45:45
want to miss out on the discussions and shenanigans
45:48
between episodes, because if we shenan Once, we will shenan
45:52
again. Snag, is it headed this way? Roll them up until next
45:55
time. Everybody stay safe and stay nerdy. I
46:08
Unknown: Who's your heart been beating about you better. Get
46:13
better. Get better. Get better. Listen, you.