Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / Bitcoin U.S. Reserve in 30 days? w/ Dennis Porter

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Bitcoin U.S. Reserve in 30 days? w/ Dennis Porter · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: My name is Paul Barren. Welcome back in the tech path.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: I do want to thank our sponsor today and that
• 0:09
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• 0:12
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• 0:28
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• 0:31
  Speaker 1: see if it works for you. I wanted to bring
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: in Dennis Porter in today. He's coming over from the
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Toshi Action Fund, and Dennis, we've had a chance to
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: kind of chat on X a little bit. But thanks
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: for coming into the show today. I appreciate it.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me on, Paul, and I'm really
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: looking forward to this conversation.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: All right, so let's dive into a few things I
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: want to get into kind of just set up the
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: tone of the nation, but also maybe the world for
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: that matter. A lot of it is coming around built
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: off of inflation, and of course bitcoin being the alternative
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: to inflation. You've got the COBEC letter here kind of
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: hitting on the ten year notes now nearing four point
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: seven mortgage race course on their way to eight percent
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: fed pivot. This was about one hundred and eleven days ago.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: We'll continue to see a push on inflation. So many
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: people were saying, well, what's the escape? Bitcoin has kind
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: of been the answer to that, among with other assets.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: When you look at where the market is currently and
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: also just the position of the United States, and you
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: consider the potential here for a strategic bitcoin reserve. If
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: we see inflation continue to stick around here through twenty
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: twenty five, how quickly and how much of an impact
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: do you think it has on nation states to really
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: move on a bitcoin reserve.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it has a dramatic impact on their
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: desire to allocate towards a resource or to an asset
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: that is going to be able to protect their purchasing
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: power far into the future for us as a tooshiaction.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: And one of the things that we see time and
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: time again is that governments, whether they be at the
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: state or the federal or national level, are dealing with
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: massive budget shortfalls. They're dealing with these huge deficits, and
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: the main reason, the main driver behind a lot of
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: this stuff really is inflation. It is the cost of
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: everything going up. You know, Look at California, they have
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: a thirty five billion dollar deficit. It happened almost like that.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Look at Washington State, I was just there. They have
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: a twelve billion dollar budget deficit over the next four years,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: and it's almost entirely because of the monetary debasement that
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: has led to increasing amounts of inflation. And our simple
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: argument is that if they would just hold bitcoin, even
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: a small amount of bitcoin, not only would they not
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: have to deal with those budget shortfalls, but they may
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: even be in a much better position than they wore previously.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: So a lot of states already starting to put this
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: on the docket. For the states I know here in
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Florida where we are, we've already seen desantists start to
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: talk about this. Most likely we're going to see more
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: of than. I want to get to that in a second,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: but I wanted to hit on this tweet here by
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Rocher Guru. This is talking about President elect Trump basically
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: come in and kind of giving the American people a
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: little bit of the medicine of what we're dealing with
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: right now, which is high inflation. But he's saying, Hey,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: we're going to cut some taxes, we're gonna slash regulations,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: we're gonna get wages up, boost incomes, and he's going
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: to do it at a record pace. I don't know
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: exactly how that's going to be done, other than maybe
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: stimulating the economy in some way. But if that were
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: to happen, that would be a little bit counterintuitive to
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: what most investors would look at say, oh, well, hey
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: the dollars rising again. You know, jobs are better, taxes
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: are lower, you know, I feel better about inflation. Would
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: that put a damper on the United States possibly considering
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: a bitcoin reserve if we see kind of a golden
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: age come back.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Well, in my opinion, you know, and I'm not one
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: of the macro experts out there, but when I listen
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: to some of the smartest people in the world talk
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: about where we are headed, it is a direction that
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: is sort of unchangeable. We have to print more money.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: We have to print a lot more money, otherwise we're
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: gonna have to eat on medicine. And I just don't
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: think that anyone over the age of fifty or sixty
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: is going to want to live out the rest of
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: their years in absolute abject poverty, and the next generation
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: of American citizens and people across the world having to
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: pick up the pieces and head towards a new direction,
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: possibly even resulting in some sort of mass conflict. I mean,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: we're not the only player who wants to be the
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: next leader of the world. You know, we're the current
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: leader of the world. I would love the United States
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: and maintenance leadership, but BRICKS is growing rapidly, adding new
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: members by the year, and they are well positioned to
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: be the next leader as well, Which means that if
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: the pieces fall apart, if we don't stop, if we
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: stop printing money, and everything falls apart leads towards mass conflict,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: we might come out of this thing and the United
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: States might even not be a major player on the
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: global stage compared to where Bricks might be in the future.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: This was kind of an interesting statement. Right here in
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: the United States now is the most bullish administration in
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: fifteen year history of bitcoin. It's likely that we're going
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: to have other countries probably align their regulatory framework very
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: similar to what the United States could do. But if
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: all of this happens, I'm kind of curious when you
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: think about the rest of the world possibly matching suit.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Here to your point is that we could see a
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: blow up of a lot of nation states starting to
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: consider digital assets bitcoin specifically. How quickly do you think
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: that could really occur outside of you know, what we've
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: seen with the success story of El Salvador, but really
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: starting to see it take place.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, there are rumors that it's already taking place.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: There are rumors that multiple countries are already front running
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: the United States in building their strategic reserves. One of
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: those rumored nations is of course in the Middle East.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: But there are not just the United States. We need
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: to be looking at the whole picture, right because in
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: the US, you know, people often say, you know, federal
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: government US, like that's how they look at the United States.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: But we have to remember they are states, and the states,
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: the individual states. Some of them are the largest economies
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: in the world. California is the fifth largest economy in
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: the world. Texas is the eighth largest economy in the world.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: And so, you know a lot of people want to
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: see other countries dogic bitcoin reserves and that's some sort
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: of like validation that they'll receive because it's happening outside
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: the United States, but a lot of these countries, even
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: if they were to hottle bitcoin so to speak, would
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: be nothing compared to the size of some of the
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: biggest states in the United States. So that's why we're
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: so bullish on in the US the States being able
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: to buy bitcoin, and we certainly believe they will be
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: buying bitcoin in a very short period of time. As
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: you mentioned before, we were working on legislation at the
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: state level to be able to help these states buy
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: bitcoin and to create strategic bitcoin reserves. And we now
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: have at least fourteen states that are head of this direction.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: And the funny part is it's not even just fourteen bills.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: We have almost twenty bills because lawmakers are actually now
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: competing to be the first one in their state to
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: be able to create a strategic bitcoin reserve. Because it
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: is that I mean, it's that critical, it's that hot,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: it's that hot of a button, it's that hot of
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: a topic that these guys are like, I'm going to
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: be the first one. Normally we work together, but time
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: for me to build my career on this one, guys.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: So that's a really bullish sentiment for us and we
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: do believe that at least bare minimum, there will be
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: at least one state, if not multiple states who get
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: this done over the next six months.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Well, I would agree with you. This was a tweet
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: you put out. In four years, the most important group
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: in the world won't be the G seven or bricks,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: It'll be the strategic bitcoin nations. So let's kind of
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: transport four years from now, who do you think those
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: nations will be.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Well, that's a great question, and it's we're all going
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: to find out. We're going to find out over the
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: next six to twelve months. Certainly, I believe, as a
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: US citizen and someone that is spending the vast majority
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: of my time here in the US, I do believe
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: the United States will be one of these countries. It's
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: obvious that Al Salvadore is going to be one of
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: those countries. It looks like Switzerland is taking bold steps
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: to be a part of that future. I was just
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: there recently, traveled there to speak in Lugano, Switzerland, was
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: able to speak on a panel alongside what is essentially
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: a state lawmaker in the country. You know, you have
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: cantons in Switzerland, it's like a state. In fact, the
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: whole entire government design of Switzerland is very much like
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: the United State, and so we became very interested in
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: helping his office and helping others there on the ground.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: But they have actually started the process of changing their
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: constitution to be able to allow the central bank to
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: buy bitcoin. So huge steps going on there. I think
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: there's some murmurs happening in Germany. I've spoken to folks
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: there on the ground that are very interested in seeing
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: it go to the right direction, advocates that are really interested,
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: and that's really what it takes, you know. I call
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: myself an advocate. Some people call me a lobbyist. I'm
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: not for hire, so generally lobbyists, you know, it's a
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: hired gun. You can go pay them and they'll do
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: whatever you want them to do with regards to the
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: policy that you want them to support. I'm an advocate.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: I advocate for bitcoin. People can donate money to my
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: nonprofit so that I fight for bitcoin. And we're starting
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: to see a lot of other organizations pop up all
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: across the world. We have some in Chile, which we
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: just talked about. There's a big effort going on down there.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: There's one in Germany there's one in Switzerland, there's one
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: in the UK. And I think it really comes down
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: to these advocates, these, as you said, the community of bitcoiners,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: the people that are fighting for bitcoin, and I compared
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: to the Maga folks. I mean, the Maga folks have
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: certain done a great job, but the bitcoiners, I mean,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: we're kind of like, I don't know how to put
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: it any other way. We're a very entrenched group. We
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: are fighting very hard for our cause. And the reason why,
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: and I'll finish on this point, is because not only
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: are we economically incentivized to fight for bitcoin, we're morally
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: incentivized to do it as well, because we believe that
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: bitcoin will have such a positive impact on the world
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: that we must fight for it. But simultaneously, a lot
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: of us in the bitcoin space are seventy eighty ninety
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: percent in bitcoin, and so if we fight for bitcoin,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: we're also fighting for ourselves. And there's just very few
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: movements where you combine the moral side and also the
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: economic side that we've.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Seen the change in not only an administration. I still
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: to this day believe that it was crypto and the
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: bitcoin lobby and all of those around it that put
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Trump in office, and I'll go down saying that for
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: long because just the amount of impact that we had
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: was unbelievable. Plus, you look at how quickly a lot
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: of regularly is starting to shift very fast. Good example
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: of this is Ruston Benham. He says he's stepping down.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: We already know that Chaired Genzler's is stepping down. These
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: have been two people that have not been kind to
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: crypto in general. But when you look at the what
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: seems to be a pretty much clean sweep across the
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: regulator the regulators in d C. Is there anything do
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: you think that could stand in the way right now
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: of a very positive administration towards bitcoin and other assets
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: like that?
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: Absolutely? Uh, you know, there's the policy process is wrought
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: with land minds. You know. That's the thing that we've
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: learned at SETOCI Action, and it is one of the
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: main reasons why, even though we do spend a considerable
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: amount of time in Washington, DC, that we do spend
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: a large portion of our resources at the state level.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: And what we've done at the state level is we've
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: learned a lot of lessons and that's why we love
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: to have multiple states running at the same time, because
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: at any moment, one little thing can swipe all your
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: work aside and it can come to a screeching hall,
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: come to an end. In Washington, DC, you don't have
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: the fifty possible options the fifty states, and so there
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: are a lot of roadblocks and barriers along that path
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: to success. And the biggest one, in my opinion by
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: far in a way, will be working with Senate Democrats
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: to get over the sixty vote threshold so they can't
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: filibuster the progress that we want to see happen with
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: legislation at the federal level. So I've been a big
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: guy on bipartisan we need to work together. I've been
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: banged over the head by it, you know, during the election,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: but I'll continue to say that you do need both sides.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Unless Republicans plan on getting sixty seats in the Senate,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: which hasn't happened in a very long time, you need
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: to have some folks come across the aisle and work together.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: And I do believe we can accomplish that, but it
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: will take a lot of time and effort, which is say,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: not necessarily a lot of time, but definitely a lot
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: of effort to make sure that we help navigate around
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: that sort of dynamic.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: You look at the lineup also with Gens stepping down
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: thirteen days away, Trump's cabinet set right now to pretty
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: much change everything. You look at jd Vance his position
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: on bitcoin, very pro bitcoin. You look at Scott Bessett
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: this is next. Yeah, sure, George so has the line
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: but a very strong bitcoin supporter. Then you have Paul Atkins.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: I wanted to get your opinion of Paul Atkins because
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: he has been a big proponent of digital assets in general,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: very pro crypto regulation. How big of an impact do
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: you think Atkins is going to make at the SEC.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, It's going to be a massive impact. I mean,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: just in general, all of these changes are going to
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: dramatically shift the way that we posture towards bitcoin and
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: digital assets. I also think that's really important to look
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: at as the next CFTC chair. We are certainly have
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: someone that is in line to potentially take that spot
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: that we're really really getting behind and we believe will
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: be a good fit. But ultimately, whoever they pick, I
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: think out of the list will be a great choice
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: for the United States and we will be able to
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: move away from this world where we're just constant bashing
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: down on bitcoin and digital assets. But the reason why
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: I say the CFTC is so important because bitcoin is
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: going to be viewed as a commodity and the CFTC
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: is going to have oversight over that, and in fact,
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: it may even have broader oversight over the digital asset
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: space going into this new administration. So that seat, in
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: my opinion, is going to be as important, if not
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: more important, than the SEC chair.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Crypto Poalitan put out a story you were in this
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: up to twenty strategic Bitcoin Reserve bills introduced state level.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: You mentioned this a little bit earlier. A lot of
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: these lined up thirteenth straight states now ready to pass
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: the SBR legislation. How close would that be in this
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Do you think that's going to happen in the first quarter?
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: What's the time?
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Absolutely? This? Okay, so very absolutely so it's going to
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: happen very fast because the difference between the states and
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: the federal government is the states are the vast majority
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: of them are part time, so they meet for three months,
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: four months, five months, and then it's over, and sometimes
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: they only meet once every other year for a general session.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: So in those types of states, you're going to see
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: this either sink or swim. It's going to happen or
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: it's not going to happen, and it's going on. It's
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: not like Congress where they can wait a year or
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: two years, three years, four years to even get a hearing.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: You're going to get a hearing fast, and then you're
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: going to see if your bill is able to survive.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: But there is one this is I tell a lot
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: of people I never say this. I never say I'm
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: one hundred percent confident or I'm nearly guaranteed that it's
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: going to happen because the policy process, as I mentioned before,
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: is rot with potential land mines. However, there is one
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: state that we are working with that has a task
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: force that meets in the off season. So they meet
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: three months out of the year four months out of
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: the year for their session. But in the off season
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: there's a task force of lawmakers that get together and
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: they say, Okay, let's get together, let's pregame, let's figure
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: out what we want to do, and we'll vote in
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: this task force on what bills we want to put forward. Well,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: every single bill that has ever gone through that task
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: force has and has been approved by that task force,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: has passed into law, and our strategic Bitcoin reserve legislation
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: just passed out of that task force. So what are
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: the gods over all the years that were the only
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: bill that doesn't pass into law.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Other things that are going to happen with this is
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: a strategic reserve could push this price up quite a bit.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: This Matt Hogan, he's talked about, he's been on our show.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Matt's very pro and very bullish bitcoin, especially as it
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: gets into a reserve that could be established. Do you
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: think that it is really going to have a massive impact.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is a significant impact that he's claiming
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: that could occur with just a reserve being taken place
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: here in the United States. Do you think it's going
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: to have that big impact without a doubt?
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I mean the signaling alone, right, I mean,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: even if the US government was like we're going to
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: create a strategic reserve and we're going to put one
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: bitcoin in and I think just that signal would send
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: shockwaves to the market. But certainly if we were able
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: to get the United States to create a stockpile or reserve,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: you know stockpiles essentially, let's take the bitcoin we already have,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: let's put it into a stockpile at the Exchange Stabilization
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Fund within the Treasury. But let's not buy any bitcoin.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: And that a reserve, of course, is an expansion of
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: that where we're purchasing bitcoin. But even if the US
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: government just says let's take the nearly two hundred thousand
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: bitcoin it's currently sitting at the US Marshals and let's
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: put it into a stockpile at the Treasury, that is
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: going to be massive. I mean, we are already going
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: to be the number one holder of bitcoin among nation states,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: at least publicly known nation states, and it will also
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: I think lead to an environment where others have to
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: join us there. Back in the eighteenth nineteenth century, there
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: was a big transition to gold. We used to have
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: a bimetal system with silver and gold, but we left
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: silver behind as a reserve asset and we moved entirely
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: to gold. Well, China didn't do that, in fact, and
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: they got massively slammed in the face by it because
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: they held onto their silver and it got completely demonetized.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: And so there is going to be big shock waves
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: where people are going to be wanting to follow the
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: United States towards this path, and when they follow us
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: towards this path, it's going to boost the value of
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: our reserves and help us to establish that strategic reserve
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: in a way where we really don't have anyone who
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: can compete with us.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Far into brides here, Yeah, here's Eric Balshuna's coming in.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Eric Corse, the ETF analyst over at Bloomberg, and he's
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: getting into a couple of points here. And the reason
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: I want to make this as a statement is that
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: it kind of aligns with what you're talking about in
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: the sense that we're already seeing Wall Street jump in
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: at a significant amount. Now another billion comes into the
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: ETFs just yesterday. You look at this and it's kind
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: of fun. He's playing with the infinity stone. He gets
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: six of these. You control the universe, which could be
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: the case for where black Rock is going. With centralization.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: So much bitcoin now flowing into these ETFs, are you
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: at all concerned about centralization of bitcoin supply?
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Centralization to me is not a fundamental problem. I would
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: be much more worried about no centralization or mining centralization.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: If you centralize the infrastructure of bitcoin, you can essentially
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: control the network and so that's why it's critical that
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: we protect the decentralization of the infrastructure of bitcoin, because
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: holding the supply doesn't give you power other than purchasing power.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Doesn't give you voting power or control over the network.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: It just makes you more rich in the future, more likely.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: But we got to be very careful about mining centralization though,
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: and node centralization, which is why if people look back
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: at the block size wars, you know a little bit
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: of history here why we fought so ruthlessly to protect
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: the decentralization of nodes.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: I want to play a clip for you. This is
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Nick Carter, and this is a counter position to yours,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: and he talks about why the US should not have
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: a reserve. So listen to his point, and then I'll
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: want you to respond. Let's go to that clip.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: It depends what we mean by a strategic reserve. If
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: we're talking about a stockpile and just holding the bitcoin
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: the US government has already seized, unclear how much they
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: have right now, they might be selling off some of
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: those coins. I think we can reasonably expect that to happen.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: Trump's been clear on that front. If we're talking about
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: Cynthia Lomas's bill buying a million bitcoins over five years,
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: you know, acquiring more bitcoins for the S government, or
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: even potentially moving away from the existing dollar system to
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: a bitcoin back system. I don't think that's likely. I
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: don't see support in Congress for that. You know, Congress
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: would have to authorize that. I don't believe that it
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: would be prudent, frankly for the US government to signal
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: a move away from the dollar system, move to a
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: commodity standard based on bitcoin. Any other nation state it
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: makes sense for them to acquire bitcoin, and they are,
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: you know Bhutan, l Salvador. That's fine, Dius is the
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: issue of the global reserve currency. We shouldn't do something
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: that would call in and to question our own solvency.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: All right, So you see the point he's really protecting
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: the dollar. There is what it boils down to. What's
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: your position on his statement?
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's just to start. You know, Nick
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Carter a great you know thinker in the space. We've
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: co authored a paper with Nick before, so totally respect
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: his opinion, and I don't think we're actually too far
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: away from each other. You know. He certainly mentioned that
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: having a stockpile would be a value add over having
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: a reserve, so right away I already agree with that position,
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: but on the protecting of the dollar, like, the whole
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: purpose of the Exchange Stabilization Fund within the Treasury is
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: to protect the dollar. The reason it was created during
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: the nineteen thirty four Gold Reserved Act was to be
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: used as a tool by the President and by the
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: Secretary of the Treasury to stabilize the dollar during the
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: Great Depression. So I do believe that by adding bitcoin
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: into the ESF, we give ourselves an additional tool in
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: the toolbox to be able to protect the valuation of
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: the dollar, to be able to protect the stability of
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: the dollar. I'm not one of those bitcoiners. You know,
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: We've got a lot of bitcoiners out there, we got
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: different stripes. I'm not one of those bitcoiners who is
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: out here to tell you that bitcoin is here to
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: destroy the dollar. In fact, I am here to tell
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: you that bitcoin is here to act as a check
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: and balance on state money. And by having bitcoin as
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: an option, it creates a level of competition in the
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: space that forces those that oversee the mechanisms by which
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: we print the dollar to be more responsible to return
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: to fiscal responsibility, because if you're not responsible, people have
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: a way to get outside of that system for the
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: first time live. So I certainly believe that bitcoin is
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: a check and balance on state money, not as a
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: tool to destroy it. And I believe that by having
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: bitcoin in a stockpile or reserve, whatever term we want
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: to use here, that there will be a big value
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: add to our ability to protect the dollar moving forward. Now,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: when it comes to purchasing bitcoin, I certainly believe that
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: over time, the US government should purchase bitcoin. I don't
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: think that we should be yolowing into this stuff. I
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: think it's smart and prudent of us to take baby
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: steps or incremental steps towards the right direction. That's how
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: we pursue policy. As a toti action, We're never shooting
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: for pie in the sky ideas. We are shooting for
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: what is achievable, what is realistic, what's within the Overton
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: window of possibilities. And we certainly believe that having a
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: bitcoin stockpile at the Treasury is well within the Overton
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: window of what's possible, and was certainly what Donald Trump
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: promised on the campaign trail in Nashville.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, that's no doubt. I mean, Trump has made
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: this promise. If he does not follow through with this, Dennis,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: what do you think that does to not only Bitcoin,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: but just in general, the faith in what the administration
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: and do for digital assets in general.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question, and I think a lot
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: about that, right, because you never know, right politicians make
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: promises on the campaign trail, and sometimes they can't keep
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: those promises, either because they don't want to or because
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: they find that it's just too politically unpalatable to be
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: able to get across the finish line. And if you
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: were to not keep this promise, I think it would
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: certainly damage the relationship between the bitcoin community and the Republicans,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: if not the MAGA movement to a certain degree, because
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: it is, in our legal opinion, the legal advice that
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: we're getting and the legal advice that other groups are getting,
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: well within the powers of the President to be able
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: to take the bitcoin from the US Marshals and to
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: put it within to the ESF.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Dennis has been good having you. If you guys want
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: to check out what Dennis is doing over at the
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Satoshi Action Fund, just check it out right there. So
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Toshi Action Dot io and you can learn little bit
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: more about his organization that's out there fighting for bitcoin.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: So thanks again for coming in on the show today.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: We appreciate it.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on, Paul you bet excellent.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Are you guys or tuned in maybe on the podcast
• 22:58
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• 22:59
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• 23:01
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• 23:04
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• 23:08
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• 23:10
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• 23:12
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• 23:15
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• 23:17
  Speaker 1: in the description, and of course check me out there
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: on x at Paul Baron. We'll catch you next time
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: right here on tech Path