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What Does "Pro-Life" Actually Mean, and Who Gets to Define It? · reIMAGED: Bringing Pro Life Into Gospel Focus

• 0:00
  Chris: I'm pro life, but when I hear most people say I'm pro life, I think of the way I historically thought of it. It's more of a, I was raised that way and it's therefore what I believe. Again, maybe able to define it, maybe not, as far as like the background or reasoning, but predominantly I think it's more... And I don't want to say just political, like that's not a big deal, but like it's a political affiliation. Like, I'm in the camp that I am pro life, and there's a camp that's not pro life.
• 0:31
  Alissa: Okay. So this podcast episode is supposed to be about what pro life really means and who gets to define it. So I'm curious to know when you hear someone out in the real world say that they're pro life, what's your immediate reaction or your immediate thought?
• 0:46
  Chris: Yeah, I definitely go back to how I used to think of being pro life, predominantly whether I thought of it so politically then. But that's where I think I go back to is like most people are thinking I'm pro life or I'm not pro life, and it's more like an affiliation, but not necessarily a deep conviction, understood belief.
• 1:12
  Alissa: Yeah, for sure. I feel the same when I'm out in my daily life or in the world. Here at work, I think we have very much a unified understanding of what we're talking about. So it feels, I don't know, maybe I can take a lot more for granted here. But then out in daily life, I think I tend to naturally just assume that somebody might be pro life because they politically affiliate that way.
• 1:41
  And I like to know more or ask follow-up questions of a person before I really try to figure out where they're at. But I've had personal conversations with friends thinking that we're talking about the same thing and then realizing that we're actually not coming from the same starting point. Right. And so I think defining our terms is really important. So I feel like to start this off, it would be great to define what we mean by Pro-Life just as a foundation for this podcast and go from there.
• 2:22
  What if being pro life is bigger than we think? We're asking honest questions and exploring what scripture says about the value of every human life. This is Reimaged, bringing Pro-Life into Gospel Focus.
• 2:51
  Chris: I think if you were to say, you know, we always joke about, like, the elevator conversation because it's like, sure, we can have a whole discourse about this conversation. But in general, we have like elevator conversations all the time with people. So I would say in a short form way I would explain being pro life, it's like, it's the belief that God, the Father, God created all mankind and that life starts at conception. And being pro life ultimately is people who are advocating to protect life at its earliest stage and then throughout the entire pregnancy. Now, again, we're talking about during the pregnancy, which does not mean, and I think your intention is to obviously go there as well.
• 3:41
  That does not mean we're not only pro birth, but that is like what we always kind of say is like the tip of the spear where the enemy attacks life in the womb more than any other area of life.
• 3:53
  Alissa: Right. At its foundation, the enemy is going to want to destroy life because it is a direct attack on God himself. And so we... Because he can't actually attack God, we are like the next best thing because we reflect his image. And so if he can attack there, then that's a win for him.
• 4:16
  Chris: It's one of those, like, we always talk about and say, well, the battle's already won. Christ did defeat death on the cross, and that battle is won. And Satan, I am I am truly believe he is aware of that. Yeah. And he knows he can't win that fight, but he can attack human beings, which ultimately is attacking the likeness of God.
• 4:40
  Right. So it's like a way that he is attacking God the Father.
• 4:43
  Alissa: Right.
• 4:44
  Chris: And doing all he can to snatch up anybody he can to not be represented by God the Father, to not like to anything to destroy his image.
• 4:56
  Alissa: Right. And he prevents then image bearers of living up to their potential for the Lord and how they might reflect him. I think, additionally, it might be important to point out that historically, the term pro life at it, at the very least, means to be anti abortion. Right. And I think, you know, maybe we'll unpack some of the ways that I feel like we've seen our culture kind of try to dilute what it means to be pro life or expand it so broadly that it makes it, you know, so hard to actually have a ministry around.
• 5:34
  But at the very least, I think I would like to put out there that it does mean to be anti abortion.
• 5:42
  Chris: Right.
• 5:43
  Alissa: And so then I think we have to define what we mean by by abortion.
• 5:47
  Chris: Right.
• 5:48
  Alissa: Which when we say abortion, we mean the intentional ending of a human life.
• 5:55
  Chris: Yes.
• 5:56
  Alissa: So we could get into what that doesn't mean, what that does mean. But we would
• 6:01
  Chris: For instance, like in our trainings that we do, we make it very clear. If somebody's had a miscarriage and had a, you know, like what you would call a DNC because of a miscarriage, that is not an abortion.
• 6:13
  Alissa: Is not an abortion.
• 6:14
  Chris: It's a very similar procedure or it's basically the same procedure, but it's happening because there's no longer life in the womb. Correct. So, like having a miscarriage, that's a loss of life, not an intentional taking of life. Abortion is the intentional taking or ending of that life.
• 6:33
  Alissa: Right. And it gets complicated because I think in medical coding specifically, a miscarriage is called spontaneous abortion.
• 6:42
  Chris: Right.
• 6:42
  Alissa: So I think that's why it's so important that we define our terms. Right. Because, again, like I've said, I've had conversations with friends that we think we're talking about the same thing, but we're actually not talking about the same thing. So we and I'm not trying to be redundant, but we mean the act of going into the womb and intentionally cutting off the life that is already taking place there. A life that if left to its own growth in the way it would naturally happen, would complete the pregnancy, given that nothing else, no other complications happen.
• 7:23
  So from that perspective, if that's what we're talking about, what are some of the things that besides, like, miscarriage, what are other things that you hear people think of when they talk about abortion?
• 7:41
  Chris: Well, one of the... I always think of, like, the most extreme scenarios.
• 7:47
  Alissa: Right.
• 7:48
  Chris: So when I say... I'll put it back on you a little bit. When I say most extreme scenario, and I... We get this question, I think almost every time we do an international training, whether it's in an underdeveloped country or a deeply or way further developed country, we always get this question and it's related to what would you presume?
• 8:11
  Alissa: Like the most extreme examples? Yeah. If somebody is raped?
• 8:14
  Chris: Or even specifically rape of somebody younger.
• 8:17
  Alissa: Right.
• 8:17
  Chris: And it's like the 12, 13 year old girl kind of a thing. Mhmm. Like that's where a lot of people want to draw the line. Right.
• 8:25
  Alissa: Well, I think the response would be that the Lord still... That's still a human life.
• 8:34
  Chris: Right.
• 8:34
  Alissa: And I don't think that it would be moral or biblical or right to take a human life, especially a human life that that baby is not responsible for what happened to the mother. So the child has to die because of the sin of the father or whatever the case the circumstances are. Doesn't it always just go back to what is it that is in the womb? Is it a human life or is it not?
• 9:07
  Chris: Yeah, that's always the foundational piece is recognizing the willingness to submit to another authority, which you and I and many others would recognize is scripture. That's given by God. So to recognize the authority of scripture and what we see through scripture, that that is a life. And if you're willing to recognize that, what we also are willing to do is say, well, we're not saying that that's not a tragic Horrible. That that doesn't make the decision easy.
• 9:41
  Alissa: Right.
• 9:41
  Chris: In fact, I've never been in that situation. And I have to admit, if that were my daughter, that would be a temptation. That would be something that I personally would have to wrestle through. So we definitely recognize we get that as a hard decision. We don't come into the training saying, here's the black and white answer that you must do, therefore just do it and just take it as easy.
• 10:05
  It's not like that.
• 10:06
  Alissa: No. Yeah, it is that there is a clear answer from scripture on that that I think you can make a very strong case for. But it's in the approach, and it's in the way that you care for.
• 10:22
  Chris: Right.
• 10:22
  Alissa: I mean, it's hypothetical right now. But if you were actually in that situation, it's one thing. This is something that I feel like comes up pertaining to all kinds of topics, not just abortion. It's one thing to talk about something as an issue or as a topic and kind of like what we're doing now, like, philosophically or, you know, make statements about what is right or wrong, black and white, what's gray when you're talking about an issue. It's a completely different way of handling it when you are face to face with an image bearer who has been harmed, who has been exploited, who has been a victim.
• 11:06
  And that doesn't change what is true and what is right. But it does it does affect your posture the way that you would interact with that person. And so I think when we talk about, like, our trainings and meeting with people who have been in those circumstances because that does happen, You have to take each situation as it comes to you and exhibit the fruits of the spirit in those Right. Situations. So
• 11:37
  Chris: I always think of the life of Joseph in the Old Testament, where when you look at his life, see that many people sinned against Joseph. Many things happened to Joseph, many tragedies, and the layers of it is pretty deep. But in the end, what happens is God says what man meant for evil, God meant for good. So that even that one thing, that one story, which we see played out in many ways throughout the Old Testament and the New Testament, What that reveals is that even in evil intentions that somebody is involved with and when somebody is sinned against and something tragic happens to a person, that even in that, God has good intention. And we look at life in the womb, even in situations that were caused by sinful intentions or evil intentions, that there is purpose in life and that God's purpose is in it.
• 12:36
  And that His sovereign will is involved in that.
• 12:40
  Alissa: For
• 12:40
  Chris: sure. And again, not removing how hard it... Because clearly Joseph's life was tragically hard.
• 12:47
  Alissa: Awful.
• 12:47
  Chris: And in the end, he ends up being the person that a track for the people of God to... He saves Egypt. That nation enslaves the people of God, which then they are pulled out of Egypt, which gives us the Passover. So you look at the story of Joseph and like, all of these things happened, which gets us on this redemptive track and this redemptive story that God begins to tell through his people all through the Old Testament. And you start to see like, even in one life in the womb, there is amazing purpose that everyone has.
• 13:25
  It's hard not to look at that situation and be like, I'm sorry, this is tragic. And I want to walk through you or walk through the situation with you. But we have to look back at our foundation in scripture and look to the one who is sovereign. Right. And say, do we trust him?
• 13:43
  Alissa: Well, and that gives so much hope even to people may not find themselves in extreme situations. Because, of course, we're talking about an extreme situation with Joseph or, say, an extreme situation where a young girl is victimized. And that is so true. But it's also true in the life of each one of us. Right?
• 14:06
  Like, I I wanna know that even when I screw up, God will still redeem it.
• 14:13
  Chris: Right.
• 14:13
  Alissa: And I think that that just gives me so much hope in my everyday life as a Christian. And also, think it's super. There's also a little interesting twist on it, too, because obviously, for our purposes, for this podcast, for Life International and the ministry that we're a part of, we are very explicitly biblical, coming from a biblical worldview.
• 14:41
  Chris: Right.
• 14:41
  Alissa: But there are also secular pro life ministries that they believe in human rights, and they... Now I think if you really drill down philosophically, it ends up that they really don't have a lot to stand on. However, it doesn't mean that you can't be pro life and be an atheist or Right. Be of some other faith.
• 15:04
  Chris: Right.
• 15:05
  Alissa: I think there can be a really compelling case for the fact that just simply based on the biological facts Right. It is a human life.
• 15:14
  Chris: Yeah. Science does prove to life early in the womb like that. Like, we'd like to argue that, but science does continually point toward that being a source of life.
• 15:25
  Alissa: Right. And more and more, like, as medical advances continue to take place, that just becomes more and more clear along the way. That was more of just a side note. I just thought that was important. Yeah.
• 15:37
  One other thing that I... We don't have to get into all the nitty gritty of it, but I think when I have had conversations with friends about what it means to be pro life or they are professing Christians, but they don't like to take on the pro life label themselves, I have personally found that that's because they think that that means that you have to choose the life of the child over the mother's life. It's like binding that you could not. For instance, if a woman is diagnosed with cancer early on in a pregnancy, then being pro life means that woman cannot seek treatment. And I I don't think that is there may be some people that have that position.
• 16:25
  That's not our position. We would say that, of course, you know, there's medical advice that comes into play there, but that it would be our hope that the doctor would treat that woman as a patient and her baby as a patient. And the goal is to keep both lives. That's the
• 16:45
  Chris: goal. Right.
• 16:46
  Alissa: When that is absolutely not possible, and say a woman has to receive chemotherapy, and you know that it might be a secondary outcome that that pregnancy will not last or there will be potential complications. That was not the intended goal. The intended goal is to treat the cancer. The intention is not to end the pregnancy. It might be a secondary outcome.
• 17:13
  Chris: Right.
• 17:14
  Alissa: Which is why I think just kind of circling back when we talk about the intentional ending of a human life being the way that we define abortion, that word intentional is very important. Yes.
• 17:27
  Chris: Because we both know that even in what you're talking about, like when somebody is receiving medical treatment that may possibly cause harm or make a pregnancy more challenging, There's people we know on both sides of that scale that through personal conviction choose to either pursue treatment or to say if there's even a possibility of harm on the baby, even though it's not my intention, I'm still not going to pursue it. We both know that that and that's something that's very hard to come up with a black and white answer for people across the scale because every situation is different, every treatment is different, scale of the cancer, for instance, is different. Like, there's so many things at play. But again, our mindset, our mentality, our hope is that in relationship with Christ, people will go to Him, go to the Father, go to Christ and say, How do we walk through this? Show me your heart.
• 18:33
  Show me your truth. Surrender to, again, what we're saying, the authority of Scripture in our everyday life and say, Lord, how would you help me walk through this?
• 18:43
  Alissa: I
• 18:44
  Chris: can't do that for you. You can't do that for me. That's something that the Holy Spirit does within me. And I have to live and surrender to him. That's a conversation we continually, even in our trainings, try to say, there's times where trainers show up and we're doing a four day thing or whatever, and they want the black and white answer.
• 19:04
  Help us understand how to answer that question that somebody brings to us.
• 19:07
  Alissa: Right.
• 19:08
  Chris: It's not always as black and white
• 19:09
  Alissa: as that. That's what's difficult. You can't answer for someone whether they seek the treatment for cancer or they don't. But I think we can say, you can choose between treating cancer and not, but you can't just go in to the womb and end a human life. So that's where I think it gets a little tricky for some people.
• 19:37
  And I understand why. When I've had conversations with people, they they will after I kind of articulate that they will then say, oh, well, maybe we aren't as far apart on what we believe as I thought we were. Right. Because I thought when you were saying that you're pro life, that you were telling me a woman has to, in every situation, refuse treatment if her life is in danger. And that's not what we're saying.
• 20:07
  Right. So
• 20:09
  Chris: I think... My hope is actually too that we'll actually be able to have guests on. Right. That have walked through scenarios like that. Yeah.
• 20:15
  Or even, you know, medical professionals who say, yeah, I've had to help people walk through those situations. And I've myself had to wrestle through how do I propose treatment when I know that this is a possible challenge to a pregnancy.
• 20:30
  Alissa: Yeah, absolutely.
• 20:32
  Chris: I think that'll be, you know, as we get further into this podcast, I think that's some of the value that we can add that we say, Hey, let's just open the platform where people can talk about this openly and learn how to engage with not just this as a topic, but like, how do we make decisions in everyday life?
• 20:54
  Alissa: Because
• 20:55
  Chris: again, just like the life of Joseph, he didn't know that's what was coming. He didn't know that's what was the Lord is preparing him for. But the day came and he suddenly sold into slavery.
• 21:05
  Alissa: So
• 21:06
  Chris: my hope is that we can engage with people again, as we said, even in our first episode, the purpose of this is that we have conversation with people to understand how do we learn and grow with one another and keep seeking the Lord's wisdom, seeking the Father's heart for life. What do you mean that every life is valuable? What does that mean in the womb, Lord? Like, would you teach us this?
• 21:29
  Alissa: Right. What does it mean to love both the woman that finds herself in a crisis pregnancy or whatever you want to call it?
• 21:40
  Chris: For whatever reason.
• 21:41
  Alissa: For whatever reason. And love her sacrificially the way Christ loves her and also value and champion the life that is in her womb. You can love both and seek the welfare of both. Yes. And that's not at odds with each other.
• 22:02
  Chris: The other thing that I think is always a bit of a challenge in this conversation is people often who have experienced abortion probably don't want to enter into this conversation. Right?
• 22:19
  Alissa: Yeah.
• 22:19
  Chris: Because there's... Just like we have presumptions like you opened up saying, hey, people say they're pro life, what do you think that means? Well, somebody who's experienced abortion personally or even the ripple effect of abortion, they may have presumptions about entering into a conversation with us too. And that's where I think we also want to make it clear. Our heart and our mindset is also that I've received forgiveness from the Lord for all of my sin, for all of the poor choices I've made, for all of the habitual choices I've made, and His mercy and His kindness.
• 23:01
  And that's what's drawn me to repentance. And I just want people to know like His forgiveness is for everyone. That you can be forgiven and our heart is for that and is merciful for everybody who's experienced that. Not just to be forgiven, but to actually experience healing.
• 23:21
  Alissa: Right.
• 23:22
  Chris: And I don't just mean physical healing because that's also a part of it, but emotional, spiritual, relational healing because it is a hard thing that people have walked through. And there's a lot of regret and there's a lot of anxiety. There's things that come
• 23:37
  Alissa: from that.
• 23:37
  Chris: There's shame that comes from it.
• 23:39
  Alissa: And
• 23:40
  Chris: everybody wrestles through it in a little bit different way. But we want to communicate that our heart is to make sure people understand. We want people who've experienced abortion, chosen abortion, or even abortion was chosen for them. That there are places and there are people out there that you can talk to, that you can be ministered to by. There's people that will reach out to you and want to help you.
• 24:11
  Alissa: That actually love you and don't look at you in judgment. And there are many people in pro life ministry who part of their story is abortion.
• 24:21
  Chris: Yes. So Some of our employees here at Life International have that story.
• 24:24
  Alissa: Right. I was gonna say, I mean, I personally know people who have that as a part of their past, and they are walking in the freedom of Christ's forgiveness and knowing that, you know, they obviously know that that was a wrong decision that that they made in the past, but it's not outside of God's grace. Yeah. And so I I think maybe we would be able to find someone that we would, you know, have a conversation with. Well,
• 24:53
  Chris: if if not the employees here at Life that have experienced it, I know there's others outside of these walls too that will. Gladly step in and have that conversation with us.
• 25:02
  Alissa: Absolutely.
• 25:03
  Chris: So let me ask you a question. Because we're talking about being pro life, does that mean we have to address every issue to be pro life?
• 25:11
  Alissa: Yeah, I think this is something that comes up a lot. I see it... I can't say that... Well, that's not true. I guess I have seen it in person in real life, but I primarily see it online, social media
• 25:23
  Chris: Right.
• 25:23
  Alissa: Where the accusation is, well, if you don't, you know, provide diapers and if you don't provide, you know, pay for that child's education and if you don't do this laundry list of things, then you're not truly pro life.
• 25:40
  Chris: And
• 25:41
  Alissa: I think we would like to humbly push back on that and say, just because a ministry or a person feels like the Lord is calling them to a specialized version of ministry, which may be pro life in the way that we're defining it, ministry, that doesn't mean that you're not consistent. It's still a valid and worthwhile endeavor, of course, to seek to protect life in the womb. Life is the first human right upon which everything else is built. And I know I can speak on behalf of Life International that we very much do care about the other ways that life is devalued beyond just abortion.
• 26:32
  Chris: In which, by the way, that that perspective a lot of times, I think, is is assumed but not really known. Because many of the pregnancy resource centers that we either know or have witnessed what happens or what they do, they do actually provide long term help training, ways for you to not only answer the immediate crisis of pregnancy, but also ongoing decisions like financial training to help you get out of what might feel like a pit right now and, ways to look for housing and provide ways for housing. Like, there's so many things at Pregnancy Resource, and it's not just diapers.
• 27:17
  Alissa: Right. Exactly.
• 27:18
  Chris: Like, but they also do that.
• 27:19
  Alissa: They also do that. Right.
• 27:21
  Chris: So But this... It doesn't stop there.
• 27:23
  Alissa: Right.
• 27:23
  Chris: Like, I think the world likes to put over simplified assumptions on that.
• 27:30
  Alissa: Right.
• 27:30
  Chris: When in reality, if every pregnancy resource center out there had the funds, they would probably provide even more.
• 27:38
  Alissa: Absolutely.
• 27:39
  Chris: Help and assistance. And, again, that's where I feel like we have the same heartbeat. Like... And we know, like, if every church out there had knowledge and funds and abilities, they would probably do more as well. But that's what we hope to see happen.
• 27:53
  Alissa: Right.
• 27:54
  Chris: Is that we, as fellow, fellow believers, followers of Christ, that we would take a stand and say, we don't wanna just, argue the points. But actually say when somebody does make a choice for life, we wanna help them in those things.
• 28:10
  Alissa: 100%.
• 28:11
  Chris: But being pro life primarily at the beginning is to defend life.
• 28:17
  Alissa: Right. Which is why we said Because
• 28:19
  Chris: it is the first human right.
• 28:20
  Alissa: At the very least, being pro life is anti abortion. Right. It doesn't mean that we don't address all kinds of other issues as we can. But I think the accusation in and of itself of saying, well, you're not truly pro life if you don't do this, this, this, this, and that is not only a logically incorrect statement, But it also just isn't true because, like you just illustrated, there are so many ministries that are providing those additional things. But even if you didn't provide those additional things, it is still worthwhile, moral biblical to be trying to stop abortions.
• 29:09
  Like, that is consistent.
• 29:11
  Chris: Yeah. To stop abortion and help people choose life to be life giving.
• 29:16
  Alissa: Right. Exactly.
• 29:18
  Chris: Yeah. So those are the kind of things that we hear often. But if there's any other questions that you have as a listener, we would love to hear from you. What are the things you engage in in conversation that raise questions and say, How do I answer this? You know, whatever it is, we would love to actually hear from you.
• 29:36
  So email us and we'll hopefully be able to answer those within these next topics that we start approaching.
• 29:42
  Alissa: Yeah, for sure. So as we kind of wrap this episode up, I'd like to circle back to the Gospel Focus, what matters most. We obviously want to care for the unborn, for life in the womb. We also want to care for those who are experiencing the crisis of being in a pregnancy that they weren't expecting. And from that perspective, how would you articulate the Gospel not only to people who are facing life issues, but just all of us?
• 30:21
  And I think we kind of talked about this a little bit, but maybe just give our heart at Life International for the sanctity of human life and the gospel.
• 30:34
  Chris: Yeah. Oh, yeah. We talked quickly about like Christ's forgiveness from his work on the cross. But yeah, stepping back, I would say, obviously, we've kind of pointed to this, but life started with God creating all things. The way that we're talking, it probably clearly points to we believe that God is our creator, that this earth, all of the heavens, of the stars, all this amazing stuff that we see, that God is the creator.
• 31:03
  He created human life and in creating us, He dwelled with us in the garden. So you read this in Genesis where He dwelled with us in the garden. But yet man sinned and that essentially puts a chasm between God and mankind because God is fully righteous and now mankind entered sin into the world, which puts a separation between us and God. Well, throughout the Old Testament, God gave us his commands and we continually failed to keep those commands. Long story short, thousands of years later, he sends his son, Jesus Christ, to be the sacrifice for all mankind's sin.
• 31:46
  So Christ came, lived a perfect life, the Son of God enters earth. So Christ the Creator enters his created space and enters as a human.
• 32:00
  Alissa: As a baby in the womb. Through the womb,
• 32:02
  Chris: which that in itself is amazing.
• 32:05
  Alissa: That's a whole another episode.
• 32:06
  Chris: Yeah. Maybe we do that Christmas episode on Yeah. He enters the world and then becomes the sacrifice for all mankind by living a perfect life and then being sacrificed on the cross for our sin. Right. And in that, providing forgiveness of our sin.
• 32:27
  But not only did he die the horrible death on the cross, but He three days later was raised from the grave, defeating death and sin. And then in that giving us new life, being able to be made new. He made us new creations. So now we're able to walk not only in the freedom from sin, but actually empowered by His Holy Spirit. Because as Jesus left the earth, He promised His disciples, I will leave you the helper, the Holy Spirit.
• 32:57
  He will guide you, remind you of all the things that I've taught you. So that's the way we get to live today. So He not only paid the price for us, but He gives us the identity of new creation and then says, And I will always be with you and I will provide a way for you to walk with me through daily life.
• 33:15
  Alissa: Right.
• 33:16
  Chris: To then one day be made holy new and dwell with Him forever in heaven.
• 33:21
  Alissa: Yes, that is the good news. Yes. Which is what the word gospel means.
• 33:26
  Chris: And that is for you and me. That is for all the listeners. That is for somebody who's experienced any and all sin Yes. And they can walk in that freedom.
• 33:35
  Alissa: Which is all of us. We have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God. So, yes, that's a foundational piece, the DNA of who we are at Life International. We do have to be reconciled to God through Jesus Christ. And as a result of having that new life, we can then walk in obedience to do the good works that He created for us to do.
• 33:59
  Chris: Our President, Curt Dillinger, often likes to say the most life giving act in all of human history was Jesus' death on the cross and then His resurrection.
• 34:09
  Alissa: Right.
• 34:10
  Chris: So He is providing a way for us to live and to be life giving in all of our lives.
• 34:16
  Alissa: Correct. Which is a great segue to talk about our next episode where
• 34:22
  Chris: we...: So tell us what is the next episode, Alissa?: Well,
• 34:24
  Alissa: the next episode we are going to have Kurt join us.: Yeah.: So we're looking forward to that. We are going to talk about why is human life valuable and the image of God and the Gospel. So we're going to hear a bit of Curt's story, his background, what God did in his heart and how all of that is connected to Life International and what we're seeking to do, our mission. So yeah, it should should be a good episode.
• 34:51
  Chris: Yeah. So Curt Dillinger, the President of Life International, will be our first guest on Reimaged. So please be sure to join us for that episode. And again, if you have any emails, questions, want to engage with us in any way, email us at reimagedlifeinternational dot com.