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E74: From Spectacle to Strategy - Rethinking ICE and Border Enforcement · The Junto Podcast

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Hello, America. Welcome to the Junto podcast, where we promote the practical
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applications of critical thinking and bold creativity.
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I'm your host, Edgar Mills. Thank you for joining us.
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Welcome back. Thanks for sticking with me. I appreciate you guys.
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So what are we talking about today?
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Well, this is a topic that's been around. It's, I wouldn't say it's the hot topic of the day.
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It kind of is. It's kind of ongoing political topic.
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And we're talking about, well, ICE, Immigrations and Customs Enforcement.
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And you know what's going on with all that the perceptions and the authorities
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the tactics all those things,
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so you know i you may like or dislike my take on it but,
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sober nations they control their borders that's the way it is you you're not
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a sober nation if You don't control your borders.
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The question here is how things are being done. It's not necessarily that they're
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being done, and I'll point examples of that here in a minute, but it's not optional.
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It's definitional. Borders define the country geographically, at least.
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It's not tyrannical at all to control borders, to know who's coming and going.
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It's an administrative necessity.
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That's the way it is.
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The U.S., as would any country, has the right and the duty to...
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To decide who enters the country, who stays in the country, and who may or may not become a citizen.
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And again, I say the question is not whether to enforce immigration law or not, but the question is how.
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I think that's the question.
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It can either be done with precision, right, with some consistency of application,
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a little respect for human dignity,
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or it can be done the other way, with spectacle and exhibition that just kind
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of undermines its legitimacy.
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Immigration in America is obviously governed by the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952.
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And there are legal pathways to become a citizen on the books,
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family-sponsored, if you have family that lives in America or is American.
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Job, employment-based. There's actual diversity lottery.
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Yeah. And that's a weird one because they use that lottery to pull in immigrants
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from countries that we don't already have massive immigration from.
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So think Europe, right? Or something like that.
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Or Eastern Europe, where there's much less immigrants from those countries.
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And then there's, well, the buzzwords, refugee and asylum seekers.
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And then there's all the temporary visas, right? The student visas and the work
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visas, tourist visas, all that stuff.
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And all that stuff is meant to be sort of scrutinized, like I said,
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in a consistent way, in a precise and consistent way.
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Question is, you know, is it?
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And then there's, then how do you get into the country illegally,
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right? Well, there's different categories of that. There's improper entry.
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Yeah, and that's, that's, well, I'll give you word for word.
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That's entering outside of a port of entry, right?
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A designated port of entry that's coming, coming in across the border somewhere
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in Texas or Arizona or California or just washing up on the shore somewhere.
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There is no paperwork, there is no inspection, there is nothing, it's just.
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Yeah, that's it. First offense is misdemeanor. Yeah. Subsequent offenses are felonies.
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That's on the books. That's the way it is. Can it be changed?
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Sure, it can be changed. But that's the way it is now.
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Then there's unlawful presence. So you've come over on a visa,
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and then you overstayed your visa. That's unlawful presence.
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And once you're over 60 days that can,
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trigger anywhere from three to ten year a bar from re-entry and after you after
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you get booted out i think that's fair that's a six month window of of cushion,
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and then there's a legal re-entry so once you've been booted if you come back in illegally,
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that's just a felony. That's it. That's just a felony.
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And then the grounds for not letting someone in or the grounds for deporting
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someone, well, criminal convictions, for sure.
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Security threat, security concern, ties to terrorism, that kind of thing.
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And this one I want to point out, a public charge risk. What does that mean?
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Public charge That means you're coming over, you want to come over, you have come over,
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and you've become reliant upon the system as opposed to contributing to the system.
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Now you're getting all the free government money. And this says this in the
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law here, public charge risk.
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But that's not the way it plays out. There is a huge public charge of illegal immigrants.
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And then taxpayers pay for it, good people. That's a fact. That's a fact.
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We're just trying to help them get on their feet.
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The vast majority of illegals that come in illegally or overstay visas or whatever,
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They're just, they're in the midst of civil proceedings.
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It's not even, they're not even being charged criminally.
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The vast majority. No person is illegal. Well, yeah, that sounds good.
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If I come squatting in your living room and you don't like me,
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Well, you like me or not. If I come squat in your living room and take over, then what?
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Are you going to try to get me out of there? Or are you just going to accept
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that I live there and start doing my thing up in your living room?
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Yeah, it's silly. No person is illegal. Yeah, there's clearly laws on this.
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Most illegals are facing civil proceedings, not criminal.
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Let's let's look at the the types of of illegal immigrants and like all,
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groups right we're it's always labels labels labels labels and i'm always on
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about that everybody you're going to label yourself out of a group eventually if you keep going,
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but illegal immigration also is not monolithic there is no group,
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homogenous group of illegal immigrants they're not all from honduras or mexico or anywhere,
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now there are patterns,
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and there are you know they're big numbers and different locationally right,
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but but here's how i'm gonna come down you got the low end right There's a scale,
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and you got the low end and, and these are, are economic migrants,
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people who are coming here for,
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and this is the group, by the way, that the progressives want you to believe
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that, that represents every illegal alien.
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The people who come here who are poor, they come from maybe South America,
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Latin American countries, Mexico,
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and they're just looking for work, work, looking for a little bit of safety,
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a little bit of predictability in life, a little less crime,
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a little less poverty, and they just want a fighting chance to succeed at life.
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They're out there. That's probably the vast majority.
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And that's what the progressives want you to believe Is every single one of them.
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But then on that scale, there's the middle. And this is where it starts to get
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dicey with the middle, right? You got like opportunistic criminals,
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drug traffickers, gang members.
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It's factual, MS-13, Trendy Aragua, whatever the name of it is.
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They're coming here illegally. They're a part of that.
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I'm categorizing them differently With the drug traffickers And sex traffickers,
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Just common low level street criminals That's what's in the middle of that That
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scale We don't want those people, why would we?
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They're not just trying to come for a better life They're coming to Exploit
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opportunity Well everybody exploits opportunity No, they're coming to exploit Proper exploit,
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In a malignant nefarious way.
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And then you got the far end, the other end of the scale, the extreme end of the scale.
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And these are genuine, genuine security threats.
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These are people who are maybe on a terrorist watch list, Islamist extremist
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ideologies who see Western society as the enemy.
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And they're working to advance the jihad and the caliphate.
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And I'm not just talking about Muslims, but that's who wants.
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That's a method, that's a tactic from the extremists is to get people in here
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through the borders, low-vis, low-key, illegal, maybe some fake papers,
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sleeper cells, exists.
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There's been plenty of intelligence assessments. There's been encounters at
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the border that have documented these individuals.
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And they're a fraction of the total numbers for sure. But treating the entire
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immigrant population like they're the worst of the worst is disingenuous and
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it's inaccurate, if not calculated.
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And then ignoring the existence of the worst of the worst is reckless and naive, if not calculated.
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So, there's that.
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We're not even getting the ice yet.
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And then what about, what are some of the second and third order effects that
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nobody really talks about very much?
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Well, this may seem minuscule and numbers play out to where it does seem somewhat minor.
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But, you know, in our Constitution, which is a great document,
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folks, it's a brilliant document. I say it all the time.
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It requires an actual enumeration of persons apportioning house seats and electoral college votes.
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Yeah, the number of humans.
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The census has long counted every human, citizens, non-citizens, whoever.
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And furthermore, when they count, I stress that those aren't 100% accurate counts.
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If a census dude, a volunteer, some middle-class liberal woman is out doing
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a census and she rolls up into the hood and she feels nervous,
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she can just give a general count.
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So you can look at the number of cars The average number of people that live
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in a house Or an apartment Put whatever number she wants on there Yeah Call
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me out if I'm wrong on that Anyway, so those numbers Impact.
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The number of seats that get Portioned out to the states By population Well,
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who are some of the bigger populations?
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Well, California for sure New York, immigrant populations some of the bigger immigrant populations,
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Aside for Texas and probably Florida, most of the states with the biggest illegal
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immigrant populations are blue states.
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So never mind importing votes just for elections.
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We're talking about potential shifts in the representation of America based on illegal immigrants.
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Illegal immigrants, look, this might sound controversial to you And again, call me out, I welcome it,
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Illegal immigrants aren't to be represented in our government I don't care what
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AOC or Rashida Tlaib has to say about that,
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There needs to be a delineation,
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of benefit between citizen and non-citizen.
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Needs to be that. Anyway, carrying on.
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So the overall estimates on that, on those numbers, they say overall shifts
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are up to three seats one way or the other.
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It's not, it's insignificant is what they say.
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And, and that maybe, but it's, it's an uncertainty, right? There's estimates,
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There's models, there's this and that, but they haven't looked at the numbers
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like the numbers have been.
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I think the last time they did an estimate was, I don't even know.
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I'm not talking about census.
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I'm not sure when the last census was, but they're talking about since,
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they look back as far as 1980 and say, well, since 1980,
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if we counted all illegals or if we didn't count all illegals,
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sorry. They do count everyone.
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If we did not count all illegals in the census, then the house seats would only
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shift one, two, or three seats left or right, depending on the states.
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Because the way they divvy those up anyway, they don't do it per state.
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Anyway, that's a whole other friggin' civics lesson. And it's an uncertainty.
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And the uncertainty is the problem, folks.
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The uncertainty is the problem.
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When the numbers are misrepresented or poorly represented or underrepresented,
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again, the representation becomes less precise.
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It's a structural concern. It's an administrative concern at minimum, at minimum.
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So that's an effect that I think matters that most people just disregard.
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I don't think you should be disregarded. Never mind the votes,
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right? Never mind having illegals voting in elections.
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There's been plenty about election fraud. There's been plenty.
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That gets brought up a lot, so I'm not going to belabor it.
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No, illegals should not vote. Again, there needs to be a delineation benefits
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for what it means to be a citizen at all versus not.
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And that may not sound very libertarian to you, but on this matter,
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maybe I'm not very libertarian. I'm not sure.
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And I did a podcast. So we're going to now, what's the next sort of a second,
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third order effect of all this illegal immigration?
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Well, I did a podcast on this, sort of looking at Europe and the unchecked immigration
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in Europe and compared it.
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And I'm going to follow up on that here. Yeah.
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And we're talking about UK, Germany, Sweden, Denmark.
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Since 2015 for the past 10-11 years.
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There's been a friggin exponential rise,
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in crime mostly sexual assault and rape,
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and that correlates directly with the number of immigrants flooding into Europe,
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it correlates directly Low correlation doesn't equal causation, Edgar Well, I,
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beg to differ in this case It's not hard to connect the dots.
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All the data that I've talked about before exists. In Germany,
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immigrants account for about 40% of the crime.
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And that's a massive over-representation. Massive.
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Mostly rape and sexual assault.
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The UK is very cagey. They're very cagey. They don't want you to know.
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They don't want you to know how bad it is.
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They don't report accurate numbers.
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They just say that foreign nationals are arrested for sexual offenses rates
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higher than Natives in some periods, in some localities.
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Yeah, they're not trying to let you know what's going on.
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Denmark, we're talking about over a third of sexual assault and rape committed
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by immigrants. And look,
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I hate to do this, but these don't span all immigrant groups.
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Like I said, immigrants aren't monolithic.
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They don't span across, but primarily these are from North African and Islamic country immigrants.
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By men who notably, doctrinally, by religion, disregard women as human, I guess.
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Result is finally too little too late that Europe is different countries in
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Europe are starting to tighten up their immigration laws a little bit they loosen
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them up dramatically and,
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showing the world how how good they were,
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how benevolent they were and then it bit them right in the ass,
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and there are just thousands of women across Europe tens of thousands of women
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across Europe who have paid the price for that,
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the price for that virtue signaling,
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the real price, the physical price.
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And folks, America is not immune to these dynamics. Don't think we are.
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We're already starting to see similarities. We have been starting to see similarities.
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Okay, now, all the poo-pooing on immigrants.
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I'm going to try to make a case for clear and then functional pass to citizenship,
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because I do think immigration is good overall.
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I do.
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Provided some things are in place, provided that the immigrants aim to come
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here and assimilate to a degree.
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I've done podcasts on this, talking about the American identity.
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Do you need to replace, as an immigrant from name your country,
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do you need to replace your existing identity completely with an American identity?
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Or can you merge the two? Yeah. So if we were in a functional system right now,
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we'd be able to pair solid enforcement with some practical workable legal channels.
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And they exist already, but clearly they're not working.
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And I always rip on Congress. This is one of the things Congress is meant to
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do, to make regular naturalization and immigration, or just naturalization.
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But they're meant to make a policy for that, to standardize it, to make it functional.
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And there's a lot of latitude on the executive branch there, a lot, as it should be.
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Why not? But so some of the things, look, I know liberals hate this,
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but have some merit-based protocol.
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Yeah, bringing somebody who brings skills.
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And then look at, you know, do they know the language already?
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Are they willing to learn the language?
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Are they going to assimilate? Are they willing to assimilate?
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Do they have a clean criminal background?
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That's not a lot. It's not a lot to ask.
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Another way we could shape this up is a sort of expanded legal work visas.
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I know people poo-poo on these H-1B, this and that and the other.
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They're bringing in all these Indian dudes for the tech industry.
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Look, that's nuanced stuff. But if there's a segment of the labor market that needs people,
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and Americans aren't filling those roles because either they don't want to,
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they feel overqualified, they feel it's beneath them, or they're underqualified, why not?
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Why not expand the legal work visas? Yeah.
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And then, you know, sort of sure up the process for like long-term residents,
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who are not citizens yet shore up the process.
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They meet strict standards and they can be, it's simple.
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And if they're consistently, if these things are consistently applied.
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Well, I mean, what's one of the things that could happen there if we consistently
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apply sort of these, and these are administrative, these are not,
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you're not going to see these on the news every week.
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There's not going to be riots over these things. Well, these could sort of disincentivize,
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you know, sort of illegal entry.
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If there's a practical, I'm not going to say easy way to become a citizen,
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but it looks like it's doable with not too much hassle,
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or intimidation or overly complicated, et cetera.
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Any amnesty plan that has existed or does exist, I'm not down with amnesty because,
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it does incentivize lawbreaking. It does incentivize illegal entry.
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If I can get there, well, I can catch some amnesty small print. You know what I mean?
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No. Amnesty is no good.
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And I don't even mean...
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Shape up some little temporary amnesty programs as long as there's strict enforcement.
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You can shape up some temporary amnesty programs as long as there's strict enforcement.
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But without the strict enforcement, it just incentivizes lawbreaking.
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And then overly strict enforcement without any like practical path,
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well, that just drives the immigrants underground. It just becomes more underground.
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It becomes harder to manage and maintain and track.
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So there's always a balance, folks. Just always a balance.
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If we had more solid, updated, practical laws on the books, when I say solid,
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this is a key word I'm using here.
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Solid as in predictable, clearly enforceable without a lot of gray area,
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and yes i'm going to say oriented toward our national interests not some feel-good
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whimsical free-for-all humanitarian whatever right national interests do matter folks,
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look at europe is it in their national interests not to let their women be raped and murdered?
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Well, mostly just raped over there.
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Not as much murdering going on, just a bunch of raping.
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Is that in the national interest? I don't think so.
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Solid laws that are predictable, consistently and evenly enforced across the board.
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Minimal loopholes.
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Complication. It can be done. There's smart people out there.
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Problem is a lot of these smart people are so freaking smart.
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They want to make it to where they're the only one who can freaking decipher the law.
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Rip on the intellectual class. So what about ICE then? That's why we're here to talk about ICE.
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Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
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When was it created? Anybody know?
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Well, a lot of you Listen to this, remember 9-11 2001 And what came from that.
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Well, the Patriot Act came from that. And then the Homeland Security Act came
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from that. An old W signed in in the aftermath of 9-11 because everybody was scared shitless.
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Yeah. Desired effect.
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Whoever, whoever blew up the Twin Towers, they got the desired effect.
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Yeah. It was effective. If you think it was Saudi and Egyptian and whoever, terrorists, good.
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If you think it was the evil cabal, the international cabal of billionaire puppet
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masters, well, they got the desired effect.
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Whoever did it, the desired effect happened. And so anyway, the Homeland Security
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Act combined INS, which was Immigration and Naturalization Services, with Homeland,
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Security or Customs investigative practice and procedures and whatnot.
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And now ICE has two sort of directorates underneath, and one of them is Enforcement
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Removal Operations, ERO, and then the other is Homeland Security Investigations.
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Now, a little side note here, Homeland Security, HSI, and then Enforcement Removal, ERO.
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I'm 100% sure, in my mind, that someone who was creating these acronyms wanted
29:21
to call it Homeland Enforcement and Removal Operations.
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And then some guy like me said, stop.
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All right, so anyway, ICE existed. It came to be. It came to be.
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So they just went heavier on what INS did without a bunch of controversy, really.
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ICE does, except with controversy. Well, it changed.
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Well, first of all, since its inception,
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Every president has used it ruthlessly Of course Bush did,
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Obama notably became the deporter-in-chief,
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He set records on deportation Nobody wants to bring that up,
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Well, nobody on the left wants to bring that up Or acknowledge it Everybody's
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all upset about what Trump's got going on,
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Obama has deported more Golly The contradictions And the Irony,
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hypocrisy Call it what you will It's insane,
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And of course So ICE has been in They've been in play It ain't like they went dormant,
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When Obama took over They didn't go dormant When Biden was in office And they're not dormant now.
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What's catching everybody's attention, though, is the current spectacle.
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There's a high volume of removals going on and, well, of convicted criminals, though, right?
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So they're doing what they're meant to do.
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They're just, it's a spectacle.
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ICE has disrupted human trafficking networks, you know, and smuggling networks, drug networks.
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They've seized just tons of drugs.
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They've removed gang members from our borders.
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They've engaged foreign nations to work with repatriation of these people.
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HSI Investigations has dismantled,
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transnational criminal organizations. They're doing good things.
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They're getting good results But then on the flip side of that What's going on?
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Well, highly controversial Some of the conditions In some of these detention
32:12
facilities People have died in custody There's been documented abuse There's been documented abuse.
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From the immigrants on each other, but however,
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but what's the big, what's the big one? What's everybody poo-poo about?
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It's the raids. It's the raids on people's homes and jobs and neighborhood sweeps.
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And those raids happening under the authority of administrative warrants versus
32:48
judicial warrants. That's a problem.
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That's a legitimate constitutional question.
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And that tactic that they're using, using those administrative warrants,
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which is very questionably constitutional, that just foments distrust.
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Why are we doing it?
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And I'll say this, I say it all the time on various topics.
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The fact that I object to a way a thing is being done doesn't mean I object
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to that thing being done.
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I think we need strong immigration policy. I don't think we need no-knock raids from...
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Alright, moving on. We'll get to it. And these men.
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I say this a lot about government, about special operations,
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even about CIA, like paramilitary, and about the ground level dudes are good dudes.
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They have pretty wives, well-adjusted children.
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They like their motorcycles and their trucks, and they like to go camping with
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their kids. They go to church.
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They're functional members of society. Law by loyal.
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But these guys who go to do this job, specifically, specifically the enforcement
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removal operations, they're not.
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Eight-week academy. Think of, as we're sitting here now, and I'm not going to,
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I'm not, I don't want to poo-poo on cops too much, but think of the most incompetent cop you know.
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And if you're a cop, you know a few of them. Think of the most incompetent cop
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you know. He went through eight-week academy.
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Eight-week academy don't mean anything.
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And you're like, yeah, but what do they teach in there. Because two months is,
34:57
yeah, that's a long time to be learning a thing, okay? Yeah,
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sort of. Sort of, but not really.
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Army basic training is two months long. It's eight weeks long.
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There's some soldiers that come out of army basic training that aren't fit to
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be trash men, not to disparage trash men.
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And in this curriculum, you know, they talk about immigration law, firearms use of force,
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de-escalation apparently they get instructed on the fourth and fifth amendments
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apparently and these are all correct things to have in that curriculum.
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But are they thorough are they thorough are they emphasized,
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or they just rush through like all things in all eight-week academies are check
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the block we do this through this through this boom and here's your test, you've got an 80, boom.
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Or they just check the blocks. Now, like all agencies, they've probably got
35:55
special response teams or special tactics teams or whatnot.
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And they got a selection process and more advanced training, I guess.
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But what we saw, and the reason I bring this part up specifically,
36:10
is what we saw mid-25 into 26, there was a hiring surge.
36:16
For ice and there was kind of a joke like they're just taking whoever if you're
36:23
a rent-a-cop at the local shopping center you know ice take you.
36:31
That's a joke. I got a buddy that was looking at it, but the pay,
36:36
they were taking dudes, but the pay wasn't on par with the role, you know? Madness.
36:47
But through this hiring surge, anyway, there was questions like there is in
36:51
all agencies when there's a surge.
36:53
We need people, so we are going to lower the standard.
36:59
And every agency will swear to you that they did not lower the standard.
37:04
But there's nuance in there. So people slide through.
37:08
They need people. Numbers are more important than the quality, apparently.
37:14
And the leadership of ICE will tell you, oh, our core hours have remained the same.
37:19
Constitutional training is maintained or restored. Well, I got a side note,
37:24
and that was a quote, or restored.
37:29
It may be semantics, but how can you restore something that was always there?
37:35
And the quality of humans and the consistency of training, it's rightfully under
37:42
scrutiny, and it should be.
37:44
So if there was any incident, which has been, by the way, where civilians have
37:49
been killed, if I was a greasy lawyer, the first thing I would do is say,
37:52
let me see your training records.
37:54
I want to know what qualifies this human being to be out in the streets with
37:58
firearms in a capacity of enforcement.
38:03
Well, it's a federal program. We've already blessed off on the curriculum.
38:06
Well, if you're a cop, you know most...
38:13
Training curriculum are woefully inadequate. Most. Yeah.
38:19
And what people call advanced training and all these various agencies,
38:25
even in special operations, what people call the advanced stuff is really,
38:33
that's where the baseline kind of should be.
38:36
The basic stuff, man, it's so basic that it's almost, almost hurts as much as helps,
38:47
especially when you get into the check the block, cover your own ass sort of TTPs.
38:54
Man, okay, training. I could go on about training forever and ever and ever.
39:00
So what's the controversy? Anyway, there's, of course, we're talking about it
39:04
because it's controversial, ICE.
39:07
Well when you're scrolling social media or you're looking at the six o'clock
39:12
news and you see call of duty operator looking dudes wearing level four body armor and,
39:22
they got these multi-agency team everybody's wearing different shit and they look all,
39:27
look like a bunch of mercenaries walking the streets and they're walking and
39:33
they're rolling up on somebody's work somebody's job or they're doing neighborhood
39:37
sweeps and it's highly visible it's shocking all it's.
39:46
The desired effect there is, well, deterrence, I guess.
39:52
And, yeah, flood a neighborhood so they can rapidly remove as many people,
39:59
illegal immigrants as possible.
40:01
And I guess the desired effect is what I assume to be the, well,
40:09
unfortunately, the most important one is the overt display of authority.
40:15
That's what I think. They want to strike fear in that look at what we can do,
40:21
and we are willing to do it, and we don't care how scary it is. It's necessary.
40:27
That's what I think they're trying to say.
40:30
I disagree. And what are their metrics for success in these big operations?
40:38
I guess it's all quantity, right? The number of arrests, the number of removals,
40:42
the number of detained, you know, I guess.
40:48
Well, look, these tactics, current tactics, at minimum, are polarizing and quite
40:59
possibly unconstitutional in a lot of cases.
41:04
And tragically, some folks out there on the hard right See this as long overdue,
41:12
overt demonstrations of resolve and seriousness on the matter And they're thinking,
41:20
yeah, go do it If you're not hiding anything, you got nothing to worry about, right?
41:28
And I'm not just talking about the hard left. I think broadly.
41:35
People see it as sort of intimidation theater. That's what I see it as.
41:41
That alienates communities. It very unnecessarily complicates any voluntary
41:50
cooperation from a local level.
41:53
Because now you're putting the local cops on a political hot plate and they got enough problems.
42:01
They see it as unnecessary risk, collateral damage to legal residents.
42:08
And look, I think it's a spectacle.
42:13
And I think it's undermining its own legitimacy for any sustained and long-term,
42:21
practical enforcement.
42:24
I think it's undermining itself, ICE, or the president, or whoever.
42:31
I mean, all these bizarre three-letter agencies fall under the executive branch in any way.
42:37
So yeah, ultimately, the boat stops with the president, I would say.
42:41
And I'm going to remind you, because I object to the way a thing is happening
42:45
doesn't mean I object to the thing happening.
42:48
I just object to the way it's happening.
42:51
Well, Edgar, you're so smart. You bitch and moan all time. Well, what do you propose?
42:59
Folks, I always have an opinion.
43:06
These high visibility, high force, show of force, ops, militarized operation.
43:15
Why do you say militarized? That's a catchphrase that the left made up.
43:19
Well, when you roll up in a neighborhood in America in a goddamn JLTV or MRAP
43:25
or something or a bearcat, and you got four or five deep and you got dudes,
43:34
like I said, look like they're Call of Duty frigging juggernauts.
43:39
That's militarization. That looks like a military operation.
43:43
Whether the general public doesn't get the nuance or not, they're not stupid
43:48
for not getting the nuance.
43:50
You're not presenting the clear picture.
43:55
It might achieve some level of success, but it's short-term,
44:01
and it's going to generate backlash. It has generated backlash.
44:05
And the way they do it, like I said with the local, it makes local cooperation
44:10
very distasteful. They don't want to be involved in any political frigging firestorm.
44:19
And they don't want to be involved in any constitutionally unconstitutional challenges.
44:28
We can be more discerning, more surgical the way we do things. And we ought to be.
44:35
We can use hard tactics when necessary. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it is.
44:41
But we can do that alongside, or even in most cases in place of,
44:48
these more discerning, discriminant alternatives.
44:55
Now, here's where I restate that I am no brilliant strategic mind.
45:02
My talent lies in tactical and operational level execution. That's my history. That's it.
45:11
But I do have thoughts.
45:14
And one of the most important things for an American agency in America,
45:20
in my opinion, is the appearance.
45:24
The optics, to use a catchphrase, the catchword, the buzzword.
45:33
Were not meant to intimidate our citizens. Right.
45:39
Operated, we can replace all the tactical. They got these frigging $1,500 Ops
45:46
Corps helmets on and they got thousands of dollars worth of kit,
45:52
millions of dollars worth of equipment, as much or more as some military units even.
46:01
We can, we can replace that, right? Get rid of the tactical get-up when you're
46:08
doing routine enforcement and wear plain clothes, just like INS used to.
46:16
Wear plain civilian clothes, professional, or even soft-uniformed officers that
46:24
looks no different than a typical cop walking down the street.
46:28
Use normal civilian unmarked vehicles. or even marked vehicles for that matter,
46:34
but not rolling up in force.
46:37
If 10 cop cars show up in front of them, there's like a red flag, right?
46:42
You can do routine enforcement routinely. Maintain a professional,
46:48
low-key posture, demeanor.
46:52
You can do that. Use very clear, unemotional, verbal identification.
47:01
And show them a written judicial warrant.
47:06
Yeah, that's it. That'll work.
47:09
Well, Edgar, what if it's a high-threat criminal blah, blah,
47:13
blah? Okay, well, then act appropriately.
47:17
But they're not all high-threat. I already said this. If you assume every single
47:22
illegal immigrant is the worst of the worst,
47:25
you're being disingenuous and
47:28
outright wrong and shaping your operations around that is disingenuous.
47:36
Right? Just the demeanor, just the appearance, just the presentation.
47:40
Well, what's the desired outcome there? Well, reduced public outrage over all
47:46
these viral video militarized raids and this and that and the other that you
47:51
see all over the goddamn social media all the time.
47:55
That'll That'll squash that. That'll squash that.
48:00
And then that tactic would foster a higher willingness of, well,
48:07
local law enforcement for sure, but even local citizens to be a little more cooperative.
48:14
It would lower the chances of somebody trying to run.
48:21
If just two dudes approach the house and knock on the door.
48:25
That's not to say you can't have outer perimeter eyes, right?
48:29
You can have dudes post it up.
48:32
Anyway, never mind, tactics.
48:37
Reduce the panic, flight, or violent resistance that could escalate.
48:45
I think one of the problems with ICE is they don't, whatever de-escalation they
48:51
train at the eight-week academy is woefully inadequate.
48:56
That's what I think. So this tactic, you still have the deterrence,
49:01
right? They still know ICE is out there doing their job.
49:06
They still know that they've got to, okay. But now the political backlash is
49:13
significantly reduced. And that's important.
49:17
I know as a ground-level guy, you don't think it's important.
49:19
That's not my problem. That's my boss's problem.
49:22
It's a problem. It affects a lot of things long-term, to include funding.
49:28
Politicians will cave when there's
49:31
political pressure. Politicians are the ones who sign those budgets.
49:37
And then what's another thing? You don't have the militant protests showing
49:41
up, getting shot dead by some amped up ICE agent because there was never a big to-do anyway, right?
49:53
What else? Okay, I'm going a little long already.
49:57
What about a little transparency, a little public interaction?
50:03
ICE could publicly rank and prioritize the hierarchy of targets.
50:09
And what should be the high priority? What should be number one?
50:11
High value. National security threats. Known national security threats.
50:17
Known terrorist watch list, guys. Put it out there, man. FBI's most wanted,
50:22
you know, they got that, right?
50:24
ICE can do that. Hey, immigrant population This is who This is who's number one on the list.
50:33
Next tier down, right? Well, violent criminals, criminal history,
50:42
violent or drug or, or any kind of violent crime, right?
50:48
If you, if you have that in your background or if you, if it's happened here, you're gone.
50:53
You're number two on the list followed up by, you know, border crossers.
50:59
We talked about the scale, right, the low-end guys,
51:04
the sort of opportunistic criminals, maybe not necessarily violent, but opportunistic.
51:11
Those are next on the list. And then finally, you got the working-class guy.
51:15
You're just coming over for opportunity, nonviolent, otherwise non-criminal, maybe even a family man.
51:26
Put that criteria out there. this is the priorities this is what we're doing
51:32
this is who we're after and the order of effort that we're after and.
51:40
That? Well, here's what I think will come from it.
51:44
I think you'll get focused resources, right?
51:47
If you prioritize, right, and work toward those priorities, those resources
51:51
can be focused, which will produce results, and you will get the most dangerous
51:58
individuals off the American soil.
52:02
The public messaging is now sort of easier to defend.
52:07
So let's say we've already gone low-vis, not overt, right?
52:14
And now we got public messaging that we're putting out that you're seeing what
52:18
our priorities are. It's easier to defend that.
52:22
It becomes a talking point for you, not the other side.
52:26
And then the sort of the economic migrants and the non-criminal types,
52:35
they've got sort of lower like immediate pressure right they're not worried
52:40
about getting actual rolled up,
52:42
and what that will do is kind of reduce this the sanctuary city the resistance
52:48
from these sanctuary cities these leftist sit that'll kind of reduce that resistance,
52:55
if we go just a little softer and prioritize the the truly bad people,
53:01
and then they can and then and then the other side can stop framing everything
53:05
up as these indiscriminate militarized raids.
53:10
I think the overall number of high-value targets will increase,
53:16
even if the overall volume stays flat.
53:20
It shouldn't be all about the numbers. It should be about reducing the threat.
53:24
That should be the priority for ICE, reducing the threat, physical threat. .
53:34
Prioritize and put it out share it with the world another hot topic is technology well.
53:43
Ice can invest in these techno technological platforms they can share data amongst
53:50
other agencies which they probably do already,
53:54
as far as biometric watch lists there's a there's a lot to buy guys we have biometrics on a lot,
54:01
they pop up somewhere we've got criminal databases for days,
54:06
use them and use them more effectively track the visa overstayers now look if
54:13
you're here on a visa chances are well not chances are that's a that's a technique
54:17
that terrorists use as well,
54:19
they will sponsor student visas then they come over and overstay so you can't just,
54:25
just overlook tourist and student visas or visas.
54:29
So we got to track them and various other records within legal limits,
54:34
right? Within legal limits.
54:37
And then have small specialized teams within the, not your two,
54:41
not your two month Academy guys with small specialized teams,
54:46
surveillance dudes or high threat,
54:50
kind of like the U S marshals, right? High threat warrant stuff.
54:54
Have guys like that who deploy small scale only after confirming and corroborating
55:04
intelligence, identifies that that's a high priority individual.
55:11
Well, again, we get high-value targets off the streets. We get less collateral
55:16
damage on U.S. citizens and residents and whatnot.
55:22
We have short surgical operations that hit and quit, gone.
55:31
They don't have time to plug in on an app where ICE is going to be for the next whatever.
55:37
There's less neighborhood disruption. And I think then we'll see a measurable
55:43
drop, well, in wrongful detentions, right?
55:46
If we have that very specified capability in action and it's very precise and
55:52
surgical, then wrongful detentions are going to go down because we're going to get the right guy.
55:59
And then subsequent lawsuits for wrongful detention will go down, right?
56:06
Intelligence capability as a force multiplier, and you can use less physical
56:13
officers on the ground and get more precision.
56:17
Yeah. All this, of course, within the confines of the Constitution.
56:25
What's something else? Well, shift pressure from the illegals,
56:33
and specifically the migrant workers, the sort of laborers, you know,
56:37
just the financial immigrants, right?
56:41
Shift focus off of them for sure, and shift it onto the employers who hire them,
56:48
who knowingly hire them.
56:51
Get rid of these big sweeping work roundups. Get rid of them. They're ugly.
56:59
They present a bad picture. They're tyrannical looking.
57:04
And then start doing some systematic audits of these businesses.
57:09
Start issuing fines. Start bringing criminal cases against employers who knowingly hire illegals.
57:19
Nobody wants to hear that part. Now, let me ask you a question.
57:23
Who, I don't want to get into it. I was going to draw a comparison on prostitution,
57:28
and Johns and Pampson, but disregard. Yeah.
57:37
These small specialized teams that once we've identified a workplace that is,
57:43
hiring illegals and they've gotten fined and all these and that,
57:50
we identify the workplaces that are operating as hubs for criminal activity,
58:00
meaning bringing immigrants in, sending them out, right?
58:04
There are places out there doing that. Focus on them.
58:08
And what do we get from it? Well, if a business thinks they're going to get
58:12
hemmed up for hiring an illegal, they're not going to hire illegal.
58:15
Many of them out there already are like, no, I got to do my checks. I got to make sure.
58:20
So the demand for illegal labor is going to go down. The demand will go down,
58:25
because it shifts risk to the businesses and not the individual.
58:30
Immigrant self-deportation will go up.
58:33
If they don't have, if they're not able to come here illegally and get a job,
58:39
they're not going to come here illegally.
58:42
They'll either self-deport or they'll figure out how to become a citizen or
58:47
get a work visa. They'll figure it out.
58:50
And the left loves to underestimate people. They love it. The left loves to
58:55
think, oh, they can't, blacks can't get identifications. Workers,
58:59
they can't be expected to speak English, blah, blah, blah.
59:02
They'll figure it out. I promise you that.
59:06
So then the numbers start to
59:08
decrease of illegals, and there's no mass deportations. There's no raids.
59:14
It's just a subtle effect, but an effect.
59:20
And then legitimate employers start to regain their workplace competitiveness. Yeah.
59:28
And then a secondary effect on that is that there's less incentive for new illegals
59:34
to come over because there's no work to be had. Yeah.
59:40
Effect.
59:43
All right, now this one's going to get a little weird, but what about some kind
59:49
of program for voluntary sort of self-deportation?
59:56
Incentivize illegals to go home, and not through violence, not through intimidation or coercion.
1:00:06
It might be a little coercion, I guess, but You know, have a one-time sort of
1:00:12
structured program to where, hey, it's not amnesty, not amnesty, no, no,
1:00:18
but there's a decriminalization, right, for a time window.
1:00:23
And in that window, if they opt in, they can get travel assistance, one.
1:00:32
They can get reduced restrictions on re-entry if you okay you've done wrong,
1:00:39
now we're giving you an opportunity to leave to correct that,
1:00:44
and then we will help you come back correct in a correct way,
1:00:50
that sends a message is like look we're not whatever it is racist xenophobic
1:00:55
whatever you want to call it oh man sorry it was a phone call,
1:01:02
span yeah and that that's good messaging that's like hey look we're trying to
1:01:08
help you be right we want you to be right we need you to be right and we're
1:01:12
going to help you be right.
1:01:14
And it creates a positive environment and then obviously you got to have a section right uh teams to,
1:01:23
to follow up on that and manage that and help that And there's all a little
1:01:26
bit of specialized training in all these things. But there always is.
1:01:33
I think a significant number of people will look at our opportunity to, like, okay,
1:01:39
completely decriminalized for this, and they'll take advantage of it,
1:01:45
especially if it doesn't cost them any money and there's no confrontation with juggernauts.
1:01:53
And it frees up other enforcement apparatus to go after dangerous people.
1:01:59
And what it does, though, is it sort of demonstrates a mature analysis,
1:02:06
of the situation that recognizes and distinguishes the categories of unlawful people, right?
1:02:17
It differentiates, look, I recognize you're not a violent criminal.
1:02:21
I recognize you're just here to work and support your family, right?
1:02:26
And I think that'll improve efficiency of the agency overall,
1:02:30
but overall public perception of the agency.
1:02:34
Yeah. I'm talking a lot about public perception. It matters.
1:02:39
We're citizens. We don't want to be ruled in a tyrannical fashion by militarized organizations.
1:02:50
All right. Next. And I hesitate on this.
1:02:56
The use of technology, I already mentioned it a little bit, and I'm coming from
1:03:02
a military perspective here.
1:03:06
And like I said, I do hesitate to offer this as an alternative to current tactics.
1:03:12
But there is so much current AI-driven surveillance capacity out there.
1:03:21
Various trackers and monitors and recognition technology all these things and,
1:03:29
shouldn't be used on American citizens. But what about illegals?
1:03:33
If we could focus these capabilities constitutionally on illegals, and what illegal?
1:03:40
Well, you got to scan, you got to find, no, I'm talking about illegals set for
1:03:44
people who have a court date or have been given a court date,
1:03:48
right? People who've already had contact.
1:03:51
We then, with technology, we track them until some adjudication has been made.
1:03:58
They either get sent home or they get their paper signed and then they're no further tracked.
1:04:04
There's a way to do it, and I think we should consider it. I mean,
1:04:08
hell, even ankle miners.
1:04:13
And that would free up physical human beings, again, to go do,
1:04:18
to work on high threat cases.
1:04:22
And now all this requires corroboration and confirmation and all these things.
1:04:27
And I'm not saying this flippantly at all.
1:04:30
And I know it doesn't sound very libertarian of me.
1:04:34
There are still constitutional restraints. But if you can do it for paroled
1:04:39
ex-cons in America, why can't you do it for illegals?
1:04:42
Our ex-cons are citizens. Citizenship still should have some benefit,
1:04:49
even if you're an ex-con.
1:04:51
I don't mean you get stripped of all your rights, even though they do that,
1:04:54
especially with the Second Amendment, by the way. It's a whole other topic we should talk about.
1:05:00
So if you can do it for American citizens who've served their time,
1:05:05
I can't do it for illegals who are not yet, who are here illegally.
1:05:13
I think the benefit of this monitoring is that, well, one, high-risk individuals,
1:05:20
if we've identified them in the process as high-risk, well, they're easily tracked.
1:05:26
Faster location confirmation, we can get to them.
1:05:30
I think it makes a lower physical operational footprint. We might not need less
1:05:35
dudes, but we need less dudes on the ground.
1:05:39
We need dudes looking at monitors. We need dudes analyzing intelligence and that kind of thing.
1:05:44
And I think it reduces the risk of Fourth Amendment challenges,
1:05:50
really, from actual citizens.
1:05:55
When you're doing these big, giant raids and all this mass surveillance on neighborhoods and stuff.
1:06:01
And I think it's scalable to however big. And I think the cost,
1:06:07
yeah, initially, but technology is constantly getting cheaper and more powerful.
1:06:13
Relative to manpower. Manpower is not getting cheaper.
1:06:16
All right. What else, man?
1:06:20
Are these good or bad or other? What do you think? I hope you guys are thinking on these.
1:06:26
Well, another tactic we can use is to have sort of clear...
1:06:31
There's a thing out there, 287G. It's sort of like a memorandum of agreement,
1:06:37
between federal and local law enforcement.
1:06:41
And it authorizes local officers to act on behalf of ICE, but only in criminal,
1:06:47
only in the event of criminal cases.
1:06:49
They can shape that up to where instead of having an ICE battalion roll up into your town,
1:06:58
your local law enforcement has the authority to do essentially what ICE has the authority to do.
1:07:07
The, during the conduct of routine policing, they're not going to set up raids
1:07:12
on somebody they think is illegal if there's no warrant for it.
1:07:16
But if you get pulled over because you've, you've got an outstanding criminal
1:07:22
warrant and then you find out you're an illegal, well, and there are some places
1:07:27
in these sanctuary cities that refuse to cooperate. It's got to be shaped.
1:07:32
It's got to be, there has to be very distinct and clear parameters and guidelines.
1:07:40
It can be palatable to the local municipality, especially if it keeps ICE out of your neighborhood.
1:07:48
I think that's a viable option in place of all these big militaristic raids.
1:07:53
I think that gives ICE, the benefit of this is it gives ICE a broader sort of
1:07:59
geographic reach, right?
1:08:00
All these municipalities are on board with this.
1:08:03
Some may not be still, but whatever.
1:08:05
And you can keep the feds out of your space, man.
1:08:10
And the local agencies retain their autonomy, one, and their sort of political,
1:08:17
well, should be neutrality.
1:08:19
Because ICE is political whether you like it or not, even though Obama used ICE.
1:08:23
There was no controversy about ICE when Obama used it. But now it's a political tool.
1:08:29
It's weird. It's weird, but it puts it all onto the locals and the locals already
1:08:37
have some level of trust in their community, right?
1:08:41
Some level, but if they do it correct, they can build that trust within the
1:08:45
immigrant community too.
1:08:46
Cause look, I didn't go into a lot of research on this, but there's plenty of
1:08:51
immigrants out there who do not appreciate illegal immigrants coming in. Yeah.
1:09:00
It creates less overall damage. It creates less overall angst.
1:09:05
People that hate the cops hate the cops already.
1:09:08
It's the same cop. It's the evil you know. You don't need a whole crew of feds coming in also.
1:09:16
And that minimizes all these open-ended sort of neighborhood sweeps and all this stuff.
1:09:22
And you can remove criminal immigrants through existing police interaction.
1:09:29
That is likely to happen anyway.
1:09:33
So all these things that I've just said, taken all together,
1:09:38
they don't abandon law enforcement, immigration enforcement at all.
1:09:44
They add nuance to it. And a common theme was the optics and the way things
1:09:51
look through the political lens.
1:09:55
Because you need public support, folks. You need public support, especially.
1:10:06
You need public support, hearts and minds. You need that. And these things I've
1:10:11
just laid out will help you with that.
1:10:15
They reallocate efforts. They reprioritize efforts. They don't take away anything.
1:10:21
They refocus high threat targets, high value targets.
1:10:28
And all these things together lower the temperature. Yeah.
1:10:32
And all these things together reduce the frequency and the size and scope of
1:10:36
these massive operations that look and feel like military occupation.
1:10:46
Well, it's more long-term sustainable. You'll get your numbers,
1:10:51
right? You'll remove high threats and you'll get a steady removal of illegals,
1:10:58
but more importantly, genuine threats.
1:11:01
You will minimize the constitutional clashes and you'll draw very clear distinctions,
1:11:08
that's visible to both citizens and immigrants between,
1:11:14
you just enforcing standard,
1:11:17
sovereign state immigration policy versus indiscriminate political theater.
1:11:25
That'll be clear for everyone, transparent.
1:11:29
Those are my alternatives. So now, let's talk about the Fourth Amendment for
1:11:33
a minute. Where'd the Fourth Amendment come from?
1:11:36
Yeah, colonial America, right?
1:11:41
There would be these general warrants and writs of assistance that allowed the British,
1:11:49
to just do willy-nilly search and seizures based on their military need or whatever.
1:11:57
Maybe some kind of violation of some random law, but mainly just because harassment, I would say. Yeah.
1:12:10
Would know anything. Warrants, one, they need to be judicial,
1:12:15
not administrative from your agency.
1:12:18
Two, they need to be supported by probable cause, and they need to be very specific in purpose.
1:12:26
That's what the Fourth Amendment means to me, and I don't think that's a unique understanding.
1:12:35
Now, immigration for... So courts have generally maintained that ICE warrants,
1:12:44
that are administrative signed by ICE supervisors do not,
1:12:49
do not authorize forced entry into a home. Yeah.
1:12:59
ICE or any law enforcement needs either consent don't invite the vampire in
1:13:05
right or a judicial warrant a judicial warrant,
1:13:11
and that is what's required for non-exigent home entry,
1:13:17
and now recently the the administrative policies have shifted to be more aggressive,
1:13:23
and assert you know more authority that maybe it doesn't have for administrative warrants,
1:13:29
and that has triggered lawsuits.
1:13:32
Lawsuits ain't free. We pay for them.
1:13:36
And the home, folks, the home, our homes, even an illegal's home.
1:13:44
Retains a higher level of protection under the law, as it does with Castle doctrine,
1:13:52
if you're doing self-defense, right? Somebody breaks in your house and you blast them.
1:13:56
It should retain a higher level of protection under law.
1:14:02
This is where you sleep. This is where you are not on alert to the evils of
1:14:07
the world. Your doors are locked.
1:14:09
You're in bed, butt naked, chilling.
1:14:13
There should be a heightened level of legal protection there,
1:14:16
even for illegals in your home.
1:14:19
So you need the, not that you can't get a judicial warrant.
1:14:23
I'm sure you can. It's not as, just because it's hard don't mean you don't go through the process.
1:14:31
Due process. And illegal immigration status ain't a free pass just to go bust
1:14:36
up into somebody's house.
1:14:38
Because all that does is create more constitutional challenges and more public
1:14:42
backlash. All right, I'm coming to a close here. You.
1:14:48
People. Every sovereign nation does it. We should do it. There's no reason not to.
1:14:55
If you think we should have open free borders and influx of whoever,
1:14:59
whenever, however, you're wrong.
1:15:03
Every functional nation does it.
1:15:05
The alternative is a gradual erosion of our sovereignty, our public safety or social trust.
1:15:15
Progressives love to talk about the social contract that will have,
1:15:19
that will be violated for sure.
1:15:23
And all the things that make classical
1:15:25
liberal self-government government possible will be erased. Okay.
1:15:34
Stringent, but it should be consistent and predictable.
1:15:40
It should be prioritized against threats first, high-priority threats,
1:15:47
violent criminals, risked to national security, etc.
1:15:52
The legal entry process should be clear, workable, practical,
1:15:59
consistent, and predictable.
1:16:01
And it should reduce incentive for illegal entry because the legal way is so functional.
1:16:10
Why would I come over illegal, risk being a criminal when I can just fill out
1:16:13
this paper, go do my interview, boom.
1:16:18
Not amnesty, not amnesty.
1:16:21
Human dignity needs to be maintained and human dignity is compatible with the rule of law.
1:16:30
Because we're enforcing law don't mean we're violating human rights.
1:16:35
In fact, one strengthens the other. We need law to maintain human dignity,
1:16:42
and we need dignified humans to maintain law.
1:16:46
The heavy-handed spectacle and the constitutional shortcuts undermine authority.
1:16:55
Undermine legitimacy, undermine functionality, undermines everything to do with the process.
1:17:03
Surgical, intelligence-driven targeting,
1:17:08
absolute respect for the Fourth Amendment, and a mature distinction.
1:17:15
Between opportunity seekers and predators serves both the security of our country,
1:17:25
and maintaining our American character.
1:17:31
Does, and much better than the shock and awe massive sweeps does.
1:17:37
Those are my thoughts. I welcome your feedback. I hope you have some thoughts on it.
1:17:43
It's a big topic. It matters.
1:17:46
It matters in the scope of life today.
1:17:50
Political life, sure, but everyday life in some places.
1:17:54
Probably in, uh, what Minnesota up in Michigan, Flint, et cetera,
1:18:04
Texas, New Jersey, California.
1:18:09
It matters.
1:18:10
All right. I appreciate you guys for listening. I have consolidated the website.
1:18:16
OspreyShoeSolutions.com now has a hub on the main page and that hub,
1:18:23
one spoke goes to firearms training, one spoke goes to security consulting,
1:18:30
and one spoke goes to teamwork.
1:18:35
I still have the Two Team Guys site up, but everything that's on that site is
1:18:40
now on OspreyShootingSolutions.com.
1:18:43
That site will be going away soon.
1:18:45
The SiloFTC.com will be going away soon.
1:18:50
And yeah, so we got OSS and we have the Junto podcast.
1:18:57
Yep. Trying to simplify life, I simplify my life.
1:19:01
So please listen, please follow. And then of course, folks, we have our efforts
1:19:10
to be charitable to local people, and that's the Help a Homie Fund.
1:19:16
And you can go to givesinggo.com backslash help a homie fund,
1:19:23
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1:19:28
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1:19:31
but small efforts matter. So please check that out and give it a look.
1:19:36
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1:19:39
I really do. And I hope you continue to listen. Please send me your feedback.
1:19:44
Give me suggestions for topics and whatnot.
1:19:47
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