Latest / Two Broke Chicks / The Price Of Being ‘Hot’ ft. Froomes

Transcript

The Price Of Being ‘Hot’ ft. Froomes · Two Broke Chicks

0:00
Speaker 1: This podcast is recorded on gadigal Land, Always Was, Always
0:03
Speaker 1: Will be Aboriginal Land.
0:12
Speaker 2: Today's episode with Lucinda Price discusses her book All I
0:16
Speaker 2: Ever Wanted Was to Be Hot and topics including disordered eating,
0:20
Speaker 2: body image, and mental health. If this episode may be
0:24
Speaker 2: potentially distressing to you, please skip this one and take
0:28
Speaker 2: care of yourself. If you're struggling, please reach out for help.
0:32
Speaker 2: We've popped some free resources to access in the description
0:36
Speaker 2: of today's episode. We love you chicks and let's get
0:39
Speaker 2: into it. Hey cheeks, I'm Zal and I'm ow And
0:48
Speaker 2: this is two Broke Chicks, the show that shares life
0:50
Speaker 2: lessons and tips.
0:51
Speaker 1: To help make you a rich in life.
0:54
Speaker 2: And today we are joined by writer, comedian ceo and
0:58
Speaker 2: now author of a published book, Loose Enter Price, I
1:02
Speaker 2: gay for Room.
1:04
Speaker 3: Hello Sal, Hello, I'll Holly. Guys, welcome to the show.
1:08
Speaker 2: We're going to be chatting all about your brand new book,
1:11
Speaker 2: All They Ever Wanted Was to Be Hot, which drops
1:14
Speaker 2: this week at the time of recording, and we are
1:17
Speaker 2: so excited. We both read it, we both love it.
1:20
Speaker 2: But before we get into it, we like to start
1:22
Speaker 2: with a life lesson of the week. I'll kick us off.
1:25
Speaker 2: My life lesson of the week isn't really a life lesson.
1:28
Speaker 2: It's just something that I like noticed over the weekend.
1:31
Speaker 2: But I've also been noticing on TikTok, especially over the
1:33
Speaker 2: last few weeks. So at the time of recording, it
1:36
Speaker 2: was Father's Day on the weekend, and a lot of
1:40
Speaker 2: people are posting like hot photos of their dads, like
1:44
Speaker 2: their dads when they were young, like in the nineties.
1:47
Speaker 2: And then there was also that trend on TikTok of
1:49
Speaker 2: people being like my dad used to say he was
1:52
Speaker 2: a heartbreaker, and then they show like a montage of
1:55
Speaker 2: all of these hot photos of their dads, And I
1:57
Speaker 2: just wanted to open up the conversation how do we
1:59
Speaker 2: feel about it, because I have conflicted feelings about the
2:03
Speaker 2: hot dad movement.
2:05
Speaker 4: Well, I always found it weird, Like years go, I
2:07
Speaker 4: posted on my on my Instagram people always post for
2:10
Speaker 4: as their parents when they're hot, like he's a foot
2:12
Speaker 4: of my parents when they were like not looking hot,
2:14
Speaker 4: like mom's like smoking a darry and like, oh like this,
2:16
Speaker 4: and then Dad's got a condom on his head. I'm like,
2:18
Speaker 4: let's not wise showing your parents when they look not
2:21
Speaker 4: the hottest ever. Look you know what I mean, because
2:23
Speaker 4: I do find it. There's some weird like I don't
2:25
Speaker 4: know if it's Freudian thing going on there, but it's like,
2:28
Speaker 4: we saw what you're doing.
2:29
Speaker 1: I'm neither four Again, it's difficult terrain for you to navigate.
2:33
Speaker 2: I don't know what lesson I drew from that, but
2:36
Speaker 2: I had feelings about it.
2:37
Speaker 3: Clearly, I don't know it's a safe space.
2:39
Speaker 1: I'm so torn.
2:40
Speaker 3: I'm like, I can unpack this in therapy.
2:42
Speaker 1: Yes, Like if you find your parents hot, is that weird?
2:47
Speaker 2: She's like, uh clear my three class.
2:52
Speaker 5: I'm like, oh, anyway, lesson of the week is I'm
2:57
Speaker 5: not going to send anyone into a downward spiral of
2:59
Speaker 5: con blading life.
3:01
Speaker 3: So no, I like it.
3:03
Speaker 1: It's good.
3:03
Speaker 3: I do give it up.
3:05
Speaker 1: But I haven't infected wisdom.
3:06
Speaker 5: Tooth and it's a lot for me to go through.
3:08
Speaker 5: It's been very upsetting.
3:10
Speaker 1: I am also the biggest hypochondriac.
3:12
Speaker 5: But the whole weekend friends were going out or like
3:16
Speaker 5: messaging me, and I like couldn't go. But the whole
3:21
Speaker 5: weekend I think I had like three friends message.
3:24
Speaker 1: And check in and say how are you feeling?
3:27
Speaker 5: Let me know if you need anything. And then when
3:29
Speaker 5: they all went out, they sent me messages and they
3:31
Speaker 5: were like like hippo gee, I hope you're feeling better.
3:34
Speaker 3: We miss you.
3:35
Speaker 5: And it just made me really think about how like
3:38
Speaker 5: those are just the friends that you should have, Like
3:41
Speaker 5: if you know you don't want to go to something,
3:43
Speaker 5: or you can't go to something, or you're not feeling well,
3:45
Speaker 5: the friends that check in and they make you feel
3:47
Speaker 5: like miss that.
3:48
Speaker 3: Like, I think you.
3:49
Speaker 1: Need to find friends like that.
3:50
Speaker 5: That is like the top tier standard of Like I
3:53
Speaker 5: don't expect friends to check in every weekend and be
3:55
Speaker 5: like babying me. And I don't think that's like a
3:57
Speaker 5: standard to set because you know, everyone has their own
3:59
Speaker 5: lives and it's really busy. But I just think like
4:02
Speaker 5: that was a moment that I was like, ah, I
4:05
Speaker 5: love my friends.
4:06
Speaker 1: Yeah that's nice.
4:06
Speaker 2: I think either like try and find friends like that,
4:09
Speaker 2: or it's a nice reminder to like do that for you.
4:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's the other thing that I was going
4:13
Speaker 1: to say to do that more. Yeah, it was.
4:15
Speaker 3: Getting Earnest on the pod about it's kind of like
4:21
Speaker 3: related to the Instagram dad thing.
4:23
Speaker 4: Do you guys know that meme, which is like they
4:26
Speaker 4: don't they know you're pretty, they just don't want you.
4:28
Speaker 3: Guys seen that?
4:30
Speaker 4: Okay, so you know when you like someone and you
4:32
Speaker 4: start posting thirsty stuff on your story to get their attention.
4:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like they know you're pretty, they just don't
4:38
Speaker 3: want you. Like we need to hear that.
4:42
Speaker 1: That hurt my feeling. Yeah, that's actually such a good
4:46
Speaker 1: reminder though.
4:46
Speaker 3: It's like nobody, like, you don't have to be posting
4:48
Speaker 3: the thirsty things. They know what you look like. Yeah,
4:51
Speaker 3: they just don't want you, and that's fine.
4:53
Speaker 1: That is free. Yeah, I do like it's at first.
4:56
Speaker 2: It's a bit like AWI, but I'm like, do you
4:58
Speaker 2: know it hurts more than like that little gut punch
5:01
Speaker 2: we just got hearing that is like searching through your
5:04
Speaker 2: story like looking for the person and seeing that they
5:08
Speaker 2: either haven't seen it because you're clearly not even popping
5:11
Speaker 2: up in a high priority splot on the out, or
5:17
Speaker 2: they've seen it and they just haven't even reacted to it.
5:20
Speaker 2: Like that hurts more so like posts the thirsty or
5:22
Speaker 2: like sexy selfie but for yourself? Yeah, or do you
5:26
Speaker 2: know who are the real like MVPs when it comes
5:28
Speaker 2: to that your girlfriends like, they're the ones who helped
5:32
Speaker 2: you pick which photo.
5:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I will react to it. Yeah, I love it.
5:37
Speaker 1: Pose it for yourself and for them. Love that. Okay,
5:40
Speaker 1: shall we get into the EP.
5:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's go.
5:47
Speaker 2: It's a very exciting week because your debut book, All
5:50
Speaker 2: I Ever Wanted Was to Be Hot, dropped on the
5:52
Speaker 2: third of September. And for the chicks who haven't come
5:56
Speaker 2: across it yet, can you give us a little rundown
5:58
Speaker 2: of what we can expect?
6:01
Speaker 4: So All I Ever Wanted Was to Be Hot is
6:04
Speaker 4: part personal experience, part I guess investigation of the early
6:08
Speaker 4: two thousands and the time that we grew up in.
6:11
Speaker 4: And I use my personal experience as like the launching
6:14
Speaker 4: pad to then put context around it. So it's kind
6:16
Speaker 4: of like the seed of it. And then we've built
6:17
Speaker 4: context around it through looking at Victoria's Secret Angels, the
6:21
Speaker 4: Playboy Bunnies, things we were taught in school. I look
6:25
Speaker 4: a lot into nostalgia and the shows that we grew
6:27
Speaker 4: up watching, and which was really fun to do because
6:29
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, I love these things as a kid.
6:31
Speaker 4: Oh now let's look at it from this lens. Oh,
6:33
Speaker 4: that's interesting because I can see how I it's like,
6:36
Speaker 4: this is kind of off topic. But sometimes I go
6:38
Speaker 4: back and watch Austin Powers and I'm like, oh my god,
6:41
Speaker 4: I've jacked my whole like style style of comedy.
6:45
Speaker 3: Things I find funny things I say, all.
6:46
Speaker 4: From this show, Like that really imprints on you the
6:48
Speaker 4: things that you watch early on.
6:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that's my whole personality and that's us with
6:52
Speaker 2: the granch.
6:53
Speaker 3: Yeah really help, Oh the chicks all that.
6:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true, we are here, see what I mean?
6:59
Speaker 1: What was the process like writing it for you then?
7:01
Speaker 2: Because you do have a journalism background and that shows
7:05
Speaker 2: by you know, how beautiful you write, but also the
7:08
Speaker 2: level of research and investigation and.
7:10
Speaker 3: The interviews that you do.
7:12
Speaker 2: But what was it like, I suppose reliving some of
7:15
Speaker 2: those more vulnerable moments and dissecting those as well.
7:19
Speaker 4: Well. I read you guys' book and I felt the
7:21
Speaker 4: same about the journalists thing. I'm like, oh, okay, you
7:23
Speaker 4: can really tell, Like it is funny how you can't tell.
7:25
Speaker 4: I guess when you've done commons degree giving a debt.
7:33
Speaker 3: Yeah see, I loved your book as well. Thank you.
7:35
Speaker 3: It's like a warm hug, thank you.
7:39
Speaker 4: The process well, like anything that felt nothing was really
7:42
Speaker 4: like too rough for me. I don't think it was
7:44
Speaker 4: just more exciting because I'd already gone through I talk
7:46
Speaker 4: about having an eating disorder in the book, and to
7:49
Speaker 4: have gone through that, I'd already done kind of like
7:51
Speaker 4: a lot of the facing the hard parts of it
7:54
Speaker 4: because a lot of it is reflecting and then having
7:57
Speaker 4: to rejig the way you look at things. Kind of
8:00
Speaker 4: done that whole process. So looking back, it wasn't that difficult.
8:04
Speaker 4: I guess there's like other things that I wrote about
8:05
Speaker 4: in the books that were a bit more difficult because
8:07
Speaker 4: I'd never put them into words, Like there's things that
8:10
Speaker 4: surprise you. You're like, oh, I didn't think I would
8:12
Speaker 4: feel like a certain way about that, but I feel
8:15
Speaker 4: I feel a certain way about that. And then it's
8:16
Speaker 4: funny having people, like doing interviews or speaking to people
8:18
Speaker 4: about the book. The things that they pick out as
8:21
Speaker 4: what would have been hard isn't hard, But the things
8:23
Speaker 4: that they just think was normal. I was like, oh, Colin,
8:25
Speaker 4: you're not asking about that thing that felt really vulnerable
8:27
Speaker 4: and that I didn't want to keep in there, but
8:29
Speaker 4: I kept in there.
8:30
Speaker 3: Yeah.
8:30
Speaker 5: I think it's interesting because even reading it. It is
8:33
Speaker 5: like a self reflective book to read, Like when you're
8:36
Speaker 5: reading it as yourself, it's you can you know, feel
8:39
Speaker 5: you you can feel like as if you were literally
8:42
Speaker 5: a person inside this book talking to me as the reader,
8:45
Speaker 5: which is amazing because it feels like such a safe place,
8:48
Speaker 5: but it's also exactly what you're saying that when you're
8:50
Speaker 5: reading it, you can you can feel yourself thinking about
8:53
Speaker 5: how it applies to yourself and the things.
8:56
Speaker 1: That you've been through.
8:56
Speaker 5: One of my favorite things was that the title wasn't
8:58
Speaker 5: actually going to be the title, No.
9:00
Speaker 3: Not at all.
9:01
Speaker 4: It's yeah, it was gonna be perfect candidate, which I'm
9:03
Speaker 4: just like, I don't even know how to say candidate
9:05
Speaker 4: properly far out like, thank Heaven's I dodged that bullet
9:10
Speaker 4: because it would be a completely different, Like I'm always
9:13
Speaker 4: also thinking about the kind of press that I'm doing for,
9:15
Speaker 4: it would be completely different at least with the title.
9:17
Speaker 3: Now you kind of know what you're getting. Yeah.
9:20
Speaker 4: I came up with that title because when I was
9:23
Speaker 4: probably like halfway through writing the book, I was like, Fuck,
9:26
Speaker 4: there's this thing that I keep coming back to, which
9:28
Speaker 4: is that actually all I ever wanted was to be hot.
9:30
Speaker 4: And I've thought that for a long time, and it
9:33
Speaker 4: wasn't until kind of like this age that I thought
9:34
Speaker 4: maybe that is weird or it's something that it always
9:38
Speaker 4: felt like, Oh, that sounds really like depraved and vain
9:41
Speaker 4: and like kind of fucked up. But then I'm like, wait,
9:44
Speaker 4: everything that we do is kind of about that, Like
9:47
Speaker 4: why are we on Instagram guys? Because we want to
9:49
Speaker 4: be fucking hot?
9:50
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I don't know. I just found it.
9:52
Speaker 4: It was free and doing that title because I think,
9:54
Speaker 4: on the one hand, I instantly feel worried that people
9:56
Speaker 4: are going to.
9:56
Speaker 3: Think I'm really vain, but then it's kind of like.
10:00
Speaker 4: The unspoken thing that a lot of people feel that way,
10:03
Speaker 4: and just the statistics show that I'm not alone. So
10:06
Speaker 4: I put my hand up and say, all ever wanted
10:07
Speaker 4: just to be hot?
10:08
Speaker 3: Yeah? For sure?
10:10
Speaker 2: And I think the first chapter really talks about that
10:13
Speaker 2: and like one of your earliest experiences learning that hotness
10:17
Speaker 2: is a source of power, especially for women, And then
10:23
Speaker 2: the end of the book you tie that in again
10:26
Speaker 2: and I guess your relationship with that concept now, So
10:30
Speaker 2: what is your relationship with that power dynamic? And what
10:34
Speaker 2: are some sources of power that you pull from now
10:36
Speaker 2: instead of being hot.
10:38
Speaker 4: I guess the way that I look at it when
10:39
Speaker 4: I was younger, is it I definitely felt like I
10:42
Speaker 4: didn't have access to the spaces that I've always wanted.
10:44
Speaker 4: Now I do like I always wanted to do this
10:47
Speaker 4: job alway, knew exactly what I wanted to do, always
10:49
Speaker 4: wanted to write a book. I just wanted to be
10:51
Speaker 4: a presenter when I was a little girl, like I
10:52
Speaker 4: wanted to be row live.
10:54
Speaker 2: Yes, I can see you hosting what.
10:58
Speaker 3: I would like feel jealous of, Like.
11:00
Speaker 4: Fuck, I so wanted to do your job, like anyway
11:03
Speaker 4: love rope, He's another blueprint. So I think when I
11:07
Speaker 4: was younger, like any kind of like attractiveness that I
11:10
Speaker 4: had that was my calling card, like going to clubs
11:13
Speaker 4: young and like talking to guys, feeling like I could
11:16
Speaker 4: have access to spaces through men, like I think that's
11:18
Speaker 4: and I think so I would definitely like play to
11:21
Speaker 4: a very stereotypical male gaze as a young girl, which
11:23
Speaker 4: I think like a lot of us do. I find
11:25
Speaker 4: it funny now whenever I go to this shopping center
11:28
Speaker 4: and I see little late teeny bopper thirteen year old girls,
11:31
Speaker 4: and I still wear the same things that we wore,
11:33
Speaker 4: which is like the roll down track.
11:34
Speaker 3: He's a little crop top.
11:35
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's like a uniform that you initiates you into
11:38
Speaker 4: being like a.
11:38
Speaker 3: Little girl, a little woman girl.
11:40
Speaker 4: But yeah, for many years it was kind of like
11:42
Speaker 4: the I say, it's like what I thought a thirteen
11:46
Speaker 4: year old boy.
11:47
Speaker 3: Would think is a gorgeous woman.
11:49
Speaker 4: Is what I always tried to be, which was quite
11:50
Speaker 4: restrictive at change the way that I would like behave, eat, exercise,
11:57
Speaker 4: do certain like procedures, even all the way down to.
12:00
Speaker 3: Like like laser hair removal.
12:02
Speaker 4: You know, I look back now and I think, oh,
12:04
Speaker 4: did I need to laser every single hair of my body?
12:08
Speaker 4: Not sure, but we've done it now and there's no
12:10
Speaker 4: turning back. So I guess I had this very like homogeneous, homogenized,
12:14
Speaker 4: like one set beauty standard, and if I didn't look
12:17
Speaker 4: good or if I didn't feel good, I wasn't sure
12:21
Speaker 4: where I would get my power from.
12:22
Speaker 3: Whereas now I think, because I.
12:24
Speaker 4: Have a lot of agency with work and agency with
12:26
Speaker 4: my friends, I feel like I've got heaps of friends
12:29
Speaker 4: and the happy job, my happy home life in my apartment,
12:34
Speaker 4: that's less necessary.
12:35
Speaker 3: I still like to feel.
12:37
Speaker 4: Like I look good, like I've put a full beat
12:39
Speaker 4: on today, I've got my little tiny tank top on,
12:42
Speaker 4: and like I still like feeling good and looking good
12:45
Speaker 4: in a very particular way.
12:46
Speaker 3: But it's not everything makes sense.
12:49
Speaker 5: Yeah, the self worth doesn't come from that, not how
12:52
Speaker 5: we look it comes from And that's like that quote.
12:55
Speaker 5: That's like, you know, when you die, people won't say, oh,
12:58
Speaker 5: you know, she had a flat tummy or her hair
13:01
Speaker 5: was really pretty. So they'll say she had a great laugh,
13:04
Speaker 5: or she was always there when you needed her. And
13:06
Speaker 5: it's like that that reminder and that's where your power
13:09
Speaker 5: comes from, which it's really really hard to pull away from,
13:12
Speaker 5: especially for the fact that you know, we live in
13:15
Speaker 5: society and you do.
13:15
Speaker 3: Explore this in the book as well about how.
13:18
Speaker 5: If you know the pretty privilege right, and you know,
13:22
Speaker 5: we then set up in a way that it's like, Okay,
13:25
Speaker 5: well I'm not pretty, so I'll do something about it,
13:28
Speaker 5: whether it's you know, a procedure or dyeing your hair
13:31
Speaker 5: or dressing a certain way. But then it's a secret
13:35
Speaker 5: because you're shamed for it. So like, what is that
13:38
Speaker 5: balance of and how do you feel about that balance
13:41
Speaker 5: of Like Okay, well, you know, I will do this
13:44
Speaker 5: so that I'm pretty, but then I can't tell anyone
13:47
Speaker 5: because I'm shamed for it, and it's like a lose
13:48
Speaker 5: lose battle.
13:50
Speaker 3: Exhaustingly, Yeah, you feel like a fraud, I.
13:53
Speaker 4: Think, yeah, yeah, that's That's probably what I found hardest
13:57
Speaker 4: to write about in the book is anything to do
13:58
Speaker 4: with plastic surgery, because I felt that shame and I
14:01
Speaker 4: felt like I didn't want anyone to know what I
14:02
Speaker 4: looked like before, like from the age of eleven onwards.
14:06
Speaker 4: I couldn't like share any baby photos, but like on
14:09
Speaker 4: Instagram and stuff, I put a photo of me when
14:10
Speaker 4: I'm five because the little nose is like yeah, but
14:15
Speaker 4: so yeah, there's a lot of kind of like and
14:16
Speaker 4: I still get emotion, like not emotional, but I still
14:18
Speaker 4: get a bit affected now and people say, oh, can
14:20
Speaker 4: I see a nose before? I'm like, well, I'm still
14:23
Speaker 4: that girl inside, so I don't want you to see
14:25
Speaker 4: it and say, oh, yeah, fuck, that was pretty bad
14:27
Speaker 4: or you know, it wasn't even bad. It's not really
14:29
Speaker 4: like your decision to tell me that.
14:33
Speaker 1: There's just nothing productive that comes from that.
14:34
Speaker 4: Really exactly exactly, and get I get the curiosity. People
14:38
Speaker 4: always love her before and after. There's a whole industry
14:41
Speaker 4: built on it. But yeah, that still affects me. So
14:44
Speaker 4: I think, to your point, like there's a little bit
14:46
Speaker 4: inside you that feels I still feel ashamed of it,
14:49
Speaker 4: and I still feel shameed that like I am naturally
14:53
Speaker 4: don't look the way that I look now, hmm.
14:56
Speaker 5: But like that's the thing that I hate as well.
14:59
Speaker 5: But it's also very very normal and very relatable because
15:03
Speaker 5: it's like it's like you are, you know, you've got
15:07
Speaker 5: this power and you've got this.
15:08
Speaker 1: Pretty privilege if you're hot, but you're not.
15:10
Speaker 3: Supposed to want to be hot.
15:11
Speaker 5: Yeah, fully, you're not supposed to allow like you don't
15:14
Speaker 5: want to be hot, you just have to be hot,
15:16
Speaker 5: But if you do anything about it, then that's cheating
15:18
Speaker 5: and it doesn't count.
15:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is like it's a fine line, and
15:22
Speaker 2: I guess like reconciling with that and like the shame
15:26
Speaker 2: and whatnot that we feel around it, it's just like
15:29
Speaker 2: I don't know what the answer is, and I don't
15:30
Speaker 2: think any of us have the answer, but I think
15:32
Speaker 2: even just talking about it is hopefully helpful for people
15:36
Speaker 2: out there to like, you know, feel less shame around
15:39
Speaker 2: it and know that it's like a really normal thing
15:41
Speaker 2: to feel conflicted.
15:42
Speaker 3: About these things.
15:44
Speaker 2: And throughout the book, as you mentioned, you do talk
15:47
Speaker 2: a lot about you know, like societal pressures on how
15:51
Speaker 2: we look, but then also like how the role of
15:54
Speaker 2: genetics can play into it, or even you know, like
15:57
Speaker 2: nature verse nurture, like how we're brought up like shout out.
16:00
Speaker 3: To the armor mum chapter and all of that.
16:04
Speaker 2: But then you also talk about how these things and
16:07
Speaker 2: our relationship with these things can be changed or unlearned.
16:12
Speaker 2: So what is something that people can do after listening
16:16
Speaker 2: to this episode or after reading your book to unlearn
16:19
Speaker 2: even one of these things?
16:21
Speaker 4: Yes, I love this is what I love about your podcast.
16:23
Speaker 4: Hey takeaways?
16:25
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we need the hat.
16:28
Speaker 3: The Instagram is popping definitely, even in the last year. I've
16:33
Speaker 3: just seen the girls. The girlies are on one. That
16:36
Speaker 3: means every time you come from my feet, actually like
16:39
Speaker 3: I learned something and I like it. Thank you so much.
16:42
Speaker 3: That's really ned. I'm proud to know you.
16:47
Speaker 1: Really impressive right back at you.
16:50
Speaker 4: Well, So my action will takeaway would be, if I
16:52
Speaker 4: could be so bold to suggest one would be that
16:55
Speaker 4: what I found when I was recovering from an eating
16:57
Speaker 4: disorder and my body was changing rapidly and I completely
17:01
Speaker 4: changed the way that my body looked was following women
17:05
Speaker 4: with the same body shape as me. That sounds like
17:07
Speaker 4: we've heard it all before, we've heard like d like
17:10
Speaker 4: whatever the figh your feed, but it fully makes a difference,
17:15
Speaker 4: like having someone who was like wearing cool clothes and
17:19
Speaker 4: being confident. And for me, you know, the people that
17:22
Speaker 4: I followed, they still looked kind of like sexy, like
17:24
Speaker 4: they still had sex appeal, which I needed to see.
17:28
Speaker 4: You know, the book is about you shouldn't have to
17:30
Speaker 4: look a certain way to like be I guess, like
17:34
Speaker 4: liberated and make your decisions and date and do all
17:37
Speaker 4: this stuff. But when you had when I placed so
17:40
Speaker 4: much emphasis on myself looking a certain way and feeling
17:44
Speaker 4: like I was only desirable a certain way, when I
17:46
Speaker 4: came out of that scene, that you can still be
17:48
Speaker 4: desirable at all different shapes and sizes and it is
17:51
Speaker 4: about your like funkiness, I say, me and my friend
17:53
Speaker 4: call it funkiness, like it's about you like spunk and
17:55
Speaker 4: like yeah, charisma, it goes a long way. I will say,
17:59
Speaker 4: it's easier and I look at this in the book,
18:01
Speaker 4: like it is easier for men to not be conventionally
18:04
Speaker 4: attractive and to still have that spunk.
18:06
Speaker 3: That's what where we expect.
18:07
Speaker 5: Well, that's like the rat boy frog boy like that,
18:11
Speaker 5: or how like ugly hot is for men.
18:14
Speaker 3: It must be nice, Yeah, it would be good.
18:17
Speaker 4: But diversifying the people that you follow and finding people
18:21
Speaker 4: who the other thing is like the mid sized influencers
18:25
Speaker 4: like that or wasn't a thing when we were like
18:27
Speaker 4: teenage girls. But now I look at it and I'm like, yeah,
18:29
Speaker 4: like you actually can wear like a little miniskirt or
18:31
Speaker 4: this or that.
18:32
Speaker 2: I do think that that is a good It is
18:34
Speaker 2: a good tip to follow people who look like you
18:37
Speaker 2: or just don't look like the stereotypical standard of beauty
18:41
Speaker 2: and seeing how they style things or and you know,
18:45
Speaker 2: I also think they don't have to be like, you know,
18:49
Speaker 2: waving a flag of like body positivity, or they don't
18:52
Speaker 2: have to be an advocate, but they just exist.
18:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my powerful bit when they just exist. Yeah.
18:57
Speaker 5: One of the things that I always felt difficult to navigate,
19:00
Speaker 5: and it wasn't necessarily something I was consciously realizing, was
19:04
Speaker 5: when I was following brands, and the brands didn't necessarily
19:07
Speaker 5: ever repost or post with bodies that, you know, any
19:13
Speaker 5: sort of body, but any sort of body diversity or
19:16
Speaker 5: like having a big bust. I was like, I'm and
19:19
Speaker 5: the thing that would go on my head would be, oh,
19:21
Speaker 5: I can never wear that, Like I can never wear that.
19:23
Speaker 5: I can never wear that. And I didn't realize how
19:25
Speaker 5: often that was happening until I like made the realization
19:29
Speaker 5: and started like unfollowing because I was like, all it's
19:33
Speaker 5: doing is acting as a reminder of like what I'm not.
19:35
Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean like you have to like you know, boycott,
19:38
Speaker 1: never shop there or whatever.
19:39
Speaker 5: But if there's something that's coming up as a negative
19:43
Speaker 5: part or something that's telling you you're less then or not,
19:45
Speaker 5: something that's also something to like filter out.
19:49
Speaker 3: One hundred yeah.
19:51
Speaker 5: Ye, So you spoke a lot about the Victorious Secret
19:55
Speaker 5: Show and Victoria's Secret Models, which was a throw back.
19:59
Speaker 1: I haven't thought about that in a long long time.
20:02
Speaker 5: But it was also when we were growing up, Like
20:04
Speaker 5: it was like a Christmas thing.
20:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, Like you knew like summer.
20:08
Speaker 5: Was coming and it was like Christmas time because the
20:10
Speaker 5: Victoria's Secret Show was happening. Ye, the show was canceled
20:13
Speaker 5: six years ago and this year it's coming back.
20:17
Speaker 1: What do you think about that?
20:19
Speaker 4: Obviously, yeah, I'm not across the fact that it's coming back.
20:22
Speaker 4: I'm like, let fenty have its time, like fenty is
20:25
Speaker 4: where it's at. I remember seeing my first fenty show
20:29
Speaker 4: on the TV and being like, wow, like this is
20:32
Speaker 4: how I should have felt watching a lingerie show like
20:34
Speaker 4: it made me want to go and buy every single underwear,
20:38
Speaker 4: like because I had complete body diversity, gender diversity, people
20:43
Speaker 4: were pregnant, like they had everything and kind of like
20:47
Speaker 4: what we were saying about seeing the same lingerie and
20:50
Speaker 4: all different bodies, It's like, oh, okay, now I can wear that.
20:54
Speaker 4: So I think something like that should continue because that
20:56
Speaker 4: was very It didn't feel like that had any gaze on.
20:59
Speaker 4: It felt like it was through the lens of like
21:02
Speaker 4: dance and like all this stuff that's ephemeral and like
21:05
Speaker 4: not so much. You look good, you look don't you
21:08
Speaker 4: don't look good? So, yeah, Victoria's Secret coming back. I'm like,
21:11
Speaker 4: I don't know what the audience will be, Like, I
21:13
Speaker 4: guess the CEO and stuff would say, you know, this
21:17
Speaker 4: is a show about fantasy, that's why we don't have
21:19
Speaker 4: anyone who's not a size XYZ, you know, so and
21:23
Speaker 4: then their sales have gone down, so I'd feel like
21:26
Speaker 4: the ship has sailed with Victoria's secret, to be honest,
21:28
Speaker 4: be interesting to see if people get around it.
21:31
Speaker 3: But it was such a moment in time, and.
21:35
Speaker 4: It really like, I really think it has a lot
21:37
Speaker 4: of blood on its hands, a lot of blood on
21:39
Speaker 4: its hands, because all I'd remember doing is going to
21:42
Speaker 4: my room afterwards, taking all my clothes off and going.
21:45
Speaker 3: Back and forward in the mirror and being like, I'm
21:48
Speaker 3: not good enough.
21:50
Speaker 2: All like the articles about how they like, what they
21:53
Speaker 2: eat and what they do to train, like before the shows,
21:57
Speaker 2: and like the different messages that were being sent via
22:00
Speaker 2: that because it either was like they were on a
22:02
Speaker 2: really restrictive diet or you know, on a juice cleanse
22:05
Speaker 2: or something for seventy two hours beforehand, or they'd be like, oh,
22:08
Speaker 2: like I don't really, I just eat normal.
22:11
Speaker 1: A whole pizza, and it's like, yeah, fucking.
22:13
Speaker 3: Real, Yeah, they kind of can't win.
22:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:17
Speaker 5: And I think that's also a lot of behind the scenes,
22:21
Speaker 5: you know, media training and pr messaging that was pushed
22:25
Speaker 5: on people and it's.
22:26
Speaker 1: Just I agree.
22:27
Speaker 5: I think I'm very interested from like a curiosity perspective to.
22:33
Speaker 1: See what that like, that change is going to be.
22:38
Speaker 1: But I agree, I think it's like, just.
22:41
Speaker 3: Take a step back.
22:43
Speaker 2: You had your time, yeah, exactly like you had your moment,
22:45
Speaker 2: you had your time in the sun.
22:47
Speaker 3: You completely fucked it.
22:48
Speaker 1: Let's just leave it.
22:51
Speaker 2: Another thing we wanted to talk about that you do
22:53
Speaker 2: reference as a movement a few times throughout the book
22:58
Speaker 2: is body neutrality. And I think a lot of us
23:02
Speaker 2: heard about body positivity in the last ten years, but
23:06
Speaker 2: neutrality is something or being body neutral is something that's
23:09
Speaker 2: a bit more of a newer term or concept. So
23:12
Speaker 2: we wanted to know, like, what are your thoughts on that,
23:15
Speaker 2: and whether or not we should be embracing that as well.
23:19
Speaker 4: Yes, I think we should all be embracing body neutrality
23:22
Speaker 4: if that's what we want and that's what makes us
23:24
Speaker 4: feel empowered. I know that when I was had an
23:27
Speaker 4: eating disorder, when I was coming out of that, everything
23:30
Speaker 4: was about my body. Any comment anyone made was diabolical
23:34
Speaker 4: to me. I was totally and utterly wrapped up in
23:38
Speaker 4: my body, both during the eating disorder and also coming
23:40
Speaker 4: out of it, and so a concept like body neutrality
23:43
Speaker 4: gave me a lot of license to step out of
23:45
Speaker 4: that and to be like, oh no, there is a
23:47
Speaker 4: whole thing. You know, this is a movement, like this
23:49
Speaker 4: is something that people practice and it works for them,
23:52
Speaker 4: which is essentially just like not placing so much emphasis
23:55
Speaker 4: on the way you look and rather looking at the
23:57
Speaker 4: way you feel and not feeling like I think when
23:59
Speaker 4: body positivity started, it was radical and I think it
24:02
Speaker 4: was helpful, but like so many things, I guess it
24:06
Speaker 4: also became a bit of like a so what we're
24:08
Speaker 4: meant to love our bodies when society is telling us
24:12
Speaker 4: to hate them?
24:12
Speaker 3: Like that's a lot to put on an individual. It
24:14
Speaker 3: also can feel quite far away, Yes, so far away.
24:17
Speaker 3: Even body neutrality, I think can feel really far away.
24:20
Speaker 3: It did for me.
24:21
Speaker 4: And then I got to body neutrality and I'm like, oh, okay,
24:23
Speaker 4: this feels really good. I think you can tell that
24:25
Speaker 4: you're making progress when you start looking at other people
24:28
Speaker 4: in a neutral way. And know, when I was unwell,
24:31
Speaker 4: i'd look at all people on the street and have
24:32
Speaker 4: like really judged them or really compare myself to them,
24:36
Speaker 4: depending on where they were on the scale. And then
24:38
Speaker 4: when I kind of started embracing body neutrality, I was like, Ah,
24:43
Speaker 4: it's actually so nice not judging other people, because when you'
24:46
Speaker 4: judging other people, it's in reference to yourself always.
24:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, I understand.
24:49
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that ties in quite interestingly to how
24:53
Speaker 5: you discussed about compliments and the way we not only
24:56
Speaker 5: talk to ourselves about our looks, but the way that
24:59
Speaker 5: we talk to other people people about them.
25:01
Speaker 3: Yeah.
25:01
Speaker 4: When I first started losing weight, I had a restricted
25:03
Speaker 4: eating disorder. When I first started losing weight, I didn't
25:07
Speaker 4: have any weight to lose, not that anyone ever does,
25:09
Speaker 4: but like it very quickly became obviously a problem. But
25:14
Speaker 4: I got so many compliments, like people be like, oh
25:16
Speaker 4: my god, body like fire emoji, like what do you do?
25:19
Speaker 4: I have behaviors in the office that I worked in,
25:21
Speaker 4: them were very clearly problematic, Like it was very clear
25:24
Speaker 4: that I had an eating disorder for anyone who would
25:25
Speaker 4: have had one. And again the compliments kept coming, like
25:30
Speaker 4: how do you eat the same thing every day?
25:31
Speaker 3: Like where do you get your willpower from?
25:33
Speaker 4: It was all about willpower and me kind of being
25:36
Speaker 4: holier than they are, and I already felt that way.
25:38
Speaker 4: So like all these things were confirming it and well
25:40
Speaker 4: meaning people like people didn't mean to kind of like
25:43
Speaker 4: no one knew what I was going through internally, but
25:48
Speaker 4: I noticed as well, even when I go shopping and stuff,
25:52
Speaker 4: it'd always be because I did, haven't it's unusual to
25:55
Speaker 4: be underweight to the point where you haven't eating disorder.
25:58
Speaker 4: I think some people are so tapped themselves that they're thinking, oh, well,
26:04
Speaker 4: they look good though, because that is the you know,
26:06
Speaker 4: skinnier and skinnier is better as better as better, because
26:08
Speaker 4: it is something that is hard to maintain and get. Yeah,
26:11
Speaker 4: and I know before I had a restrictive being disorder,
26:13
Speaker 4: before I was very unwell, I kind of looked at
26:20
Speaker 4: women who were struggling with anorexia and I'd be be like,
26:24
Speaker 4: oh that that'd bit must be nice, you know, Like
26:27
Speaker 4: I was, I was still tapped, even though for a
26:28
Speaker 4: lot it took me a long time to get to
26:30
Speaker 4: the point where I was one of those women. I'd
26:32
Speaker 4: totally look at them and be like, oh, no, that
26:34
Speaker 4: looks like I'd love that. Like maybe I wouldn't go
26:36
Speaker 4: that far, but like it'd be kind of lit like
26:37
Speaker 4: having a full on box.
26:38
Speaker 3: Gap, Like had these real tapped thoughts.
26:41
Speaker 4: So I think if someone loses weight, I never comment
26:45
Speaker 4: on it. There's still sometimes like a desire because you
26:48
Speaker 4: want to be like, oh, like you look different, like
26:49
Speaker 4: what is it? Or have you changed your hair? Or
26:51
Speaker 4: do you do this or do that? But yeah, my
26:53
Speaker 4: idea now is to not comment on anything that people
26:56
Speaker 4: can't change. So I don't comment on like height or weight,
26:59
Speaker 4: or you're breast size, your bum size, especially things yeah,
27:03
Speaker 4: that have some kind of like sexual connotation, because I
27:05
Speaker 4: found that, like people always comment about my boobs. It's
27:08
Speaker 4: just a thing, and like so many times it's well
27:11
Speaker 4: meaning and like no one's trying to like hurt my
27:13
Speaker 4: feelings because having be boobs isn't necessarily a bad thing.
27:16
Speaker 3: It's seen as a good thing, right, But.
27:18
Speaker 4: I found that whenever someone would comment on my boobs,
27:20
Speaker 4: it'd make it'd pull me out of myself and again
27:23
Speaker 4: it's taking me out of that body neutrality place where
27:25
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, I'm in the world and you're perceiving
27:27
Speaker 4: me that way.
27:28
Speaker 3: I wasn't even thinking about that today. What else are
27:30
Speaker 3: you thinking about?
27:31
Speaker 4: So if you're kind of like a ruminator or an overthinker,
27:34
Speaker 4: and you'd be around people who are ruminators all overthinkers,
27:36
Speaker 4: like every little thing affects can affect someone, even hair. Sometimes,
27:41
Speaker 4: like I wanted to say to you, I really love
27:42
Speaker 4: your hair because I'm on my hair growth journey, but
27:45
Speaker 4: I stop myself because I'm like, well, I don't know,
27:47
Speaker 4: you know, think about this. So maybe you really like
27:49
Speaker 4: your hair today, but maybe you only feel good when
27:51
Speaker 4: it looks a certain way, or maybe you had hair
27:53
Speaker 4: issues before. Like I try to be super sensitive conscious,
27:58
Speaker 4: but I think it can take people going through something
28:01
Speaker 4: like a neat disorder to understand how that impacts people.
28:04
Speaker 3: Because my stil just think, oh, I'm giving me a compliment.
28:06
Speaker 5: Yeah, but you know, I do think, I think, and
28:09
Speaker 5: I've been trying to do similarly the same thing where
28:12
Speaker 5: you don't compliment someone on their looks. But whenever I've
28:16
Speaker 5: really made a conscious choice to compliment someone on something
28:20
Speaker 5: that was like that was really funny or like I
28:22
Speaker 5: had so much fun with you today, whatever, it is,
28:25
Speaker 5: like you see people light up so much more when
28:30
Speaker 5: you compliment their soul rather than their physical, Like it
28:33
Speaker 5: is just the way that you see And I think
28:36
Speaker 5: that is like the best way to maybe teach yourself
28:39
Speaker 5: out of.
28:40
Speaker 1: Doing that because it is a bit of a habit.
28:42
Speaker 1: I think a thing to try and like train.
28:44
Speaker 5: Yourself out of it is to think of the compliment
28:46
Speaker 5: that's more about the person, Yeah, because it is kind
28:51
Speaker 5: of hard to not do that, Like it is a
28:53
Speaker 5: bit of a training thing.
28:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, or think you think about, Yeah, what are the
28:56
Speaker 4: best compliments you've ever gotten and how they make you feel?
28:59
Speaker 1: I love that, Yeah, yeah for sure.
29:02
Speaker 3: And you know what rings true?
29:03
Speaker 4: And I think the other thing with looks or even
29:05
Speaker 4: anything physical is that it changes over time. And so
29:08
Speaker 4: if you're complimented early on, like oh, wow, you're so beautiful,
29:11
Speaker 4: You're so beautiful, You're so beautiful, what happens when you
29:14
Speaker 4: are no longer beautiful in the way that you would
29:15
Speaker 4: compliment on Like imagine that four from Grace so true?
29:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. I think there was another part.
29:23
Speaker 2: That I thought was really insightful and also like sometimes
29:27
Speaker 2: made me feel quite sad at points, was you talk
29:30
Speaker 2: a lot about how the people in your life who
29:34
Speaker 2: love you, like your mum or your friends, and how
29:38
Speaker 2: they tried to broach the conversation when you were going
29:42
Speaker 2: through what you were going through, and how it can
29:46
Speaker 2: be really awkward and people don't know how to ask
29:49
Speaker 2: like are you okay? Or do it in a way
29:52
Speaker 2: that's actually helpful and isn't going to offend anybody or
29:57
Speaker 2: like push somebody away, I think is another thing. So
30:01
Speaker 2: do you have any advice on anyone who wants to
30:05
Speaker 2: broach this conversation with a loved one about you know,
30:08
Speaker 2: their mental health or perhaps their relationship with their body
30:12
Speaker 2: in a way that is going to be effective And
30:14
Speaker 2: I know that it's going to be different for everyone.
30:17
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's such a good question because it's that's probably
30:20
Speaker 4: the hardest thing that I Like, I've got friends who
30:24
Speaker 4: are definitely going through things which I struggle.
30:27
Speaker 3: To bring up with them, and they're.
30:28
Speaker 4: In positions that I was before, and I still don't
30:31
Speaker 4: And even though I've gone through it and they know
30:33
Speaker 4: they've seen me go through it, I still struggle to
30:35
Speaker 4: put the words to it and ask them the right questions.
30:37
Speaker 3: It's really hard. And I remember when I was.
30:39
Speaker 4: Unwell, people would reach out to me, Like I had
30:42
Speaker 4: a friend who I wasn't super close with, but I
30:44
Speaker 4: had been previously, and I took some video of myself
30:46
Speaker 4: in the mirror and she was like, are you okay
30:49
Speaker 4: or something, and it just it just like pissed me
30:52
Speaker 4: off because the other thing is like my type of
30:54
Speaker 4: eating disorder, everything would piss me off.
30:56
Speaker 3: I was angry all the time.
30:57
Speaker 4: And so you've got to be if you're going to
30:59
Speaker 4: be the person who's going to say something, you've got
31:01
Speaker 4: to be.
31:01
Speaker 3: Prepared to like be bitten.
31:03
Speaker 4: Yeah, but sometimes you do have to take the step
31:06
Speaker 4: and be the person because eventually when the person comes
31:09
Speaker 4: out of it, I think they'll see that you had
31:11
Speaker 4: the best intentions. But I think there are some things
31:13
Speaker 4: you can do, like Butterfly Foundation and Inside Out Institute
31:18
Speaker 4: of Being Disorders have good guidelines for this kind of thing.
31:20
Speaker 4: But going off my gut feeling, I would avoid saying
31:23
Speaker 4: things like, oh, you look really different or you look
31:25
Speaker 4: like you've lost a lot of weight, because for someone
31:28
Speaker 4: who's sick, that can be a real compliment and it
31:29
Speaker 4: can just encourage them to go further. And also just
31:33
Speaker 4: that's often one very particular symptom someone could be going through,
31:37
Speaker 4: like a binge eating disorder, and you can't you don't
31:40
Speaker 4: see them on a Sunday because they're at home all day,
31:43
Speaker 4: you know, engaging the behavior, and.
31:46
Speaker 3: So it isn't visible.
31:49
Speaker 4: I guess the thing to focus on is maybe you
31:51
Speaker 4: haven't really been yourself, like I feel like you're a
31:52
Speaker 4: bit vacant talking about how they were before verse now
31:55
Speaker 4: and not guilty of it, being like, oh, I feel
31:57
Speaker 4: like we haven't laughed in a long time, or like
31:59
Speaker 4: is there something you want to do that would be
32:00
Speaker 4: fun for you? Because I think as well, your priorities
32:03
Speaker 4: can narrow socially when you have an eating disorder, don't
32:05
Speaker 4: want to go out and eat with people, or struggle
32:08
Speaker 4: to stay with people for long amounts of time because
32:09
Speaker 4: you're tired. So I guess asking the questions about themselves,
32:12
Speaker 4: but also knowing when to back away and not make
32:14
Speaker 4: them feel targeted. Like there are a few instances in
32:17
Speaker 4: the book where I talk about how friends would make
32:19
Speaker 4: comments and they would upset me. They probably shouldn't have
32:22
Speaker 4: upset me because they were very small. I gave the
32:25
Speaker 4: book to one of my friends. I went and visited
32:26
Speaker 4: her recently. She sent me this really beautiful Whatsapped message
32:29
Speaker 4: after being like, Cindy, like, I didn't know you were
32:32
Speaker 4: going through this thing. I didn't mean what I said,
32:33
Speaker 4: like we were really young, Like I didn't know what
32:35
Speaker 4: to say, and I just felt like being like to her.
32:37
Speaker 4: I hope I don't read this book and think that
32:39
Speaker 4: I'm blaming you at all. It's just I'm talking about
32:41
Speaker 4: the way I thought back then, and I was tapped.
32:43
Speaker 4: I think it's also like if you're so, if you're
32:45
Speaker 4: a friend who said something that hasn't gone well with
32:48
Speaker 4: someone who's going through it, just know as well.
32:50
Speaker 3: I think they'll come around.
32:51
Speaker 4: Like me and this friend that's like brought us to
32:53
Speaker 4: a new level of bonding where I feel bad about
32:55
Speaker 4: the way I behaved more than she should, and we
32:58
Speaker 4: now can come together and talk about it. But yeah,
33:01
Speaker 4: it's definitely hard. I still struggle even though I've gone
33:04
Speaker 4: through it.
33:05
Speaker 1: I think that's really great advice.
33:06
Speaker 5: So I think that's really helpful of you know, taking
33:09
Speaker 5: it out of again the physical and making it more
33:12
Speaker 5: about you know, we haven't laughed in a really long time,
33:15
Speaker 5: or I really want to spend more time.
33:16
Speaker 1: With you and you know, we don't see you as much,
33:18
Speaker 1: and making it more about that.
33:19
Speaker 4: I'd avoid saying we've all been talking about it, make
33:22
Speaker 4: it so it's yeah.
33:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's hurt form because.
33:25
Speaker 2: Let's be real, like everyone feel like we're like we're
33:29
Speaker 2: worried about you like we've been I've been talking with
33:31
Speaker 2: so and so and.
33:32
Speaker 1: So and so, and we're all worried about you.
33:34
Speaker 2: I think that kind of group mentality in that situation,
33:38
Speaker 2: because you already feel.
33:39
Speaker 5: So isolated, you already feel like everyone's looking at you. Yeah,
33:42
Speaker 5: so that's like a confirmation of worst fears. Yeah, basically, yeah,
33:47
Speaker 5: exactly it it's like, all cool, So everyone was looking
33:50
Speaker 5: at me and thinking bad things about me, and it's
33:52
Speaker 5: probably going to push someone further away.
33:55
Speaker 3: Yeah.
33:56
Speaker 2: At the end of the book, I think you tie
33:58
Speaker 2: it all together really beautifully where you bring us back
34:01
Speaker 2: to where you were as a child, and I think
34:06
Speaker 2: you know, you point out that many of us are
34:08
Speaker 2: our own worst critic and we think of ourselves really,
34:13
Speaker 2: really harshly, even as young children. And I wanted to
34:18
Speaker 2: read out one of my favorite parts in the book,
34:21
Speaker 2: which is in the final chapter.
34:22
Speaker 3: So excuse me.
34:23
Speaker 1: For quoting yourself at you.
34:26
Speaker 2: I used to look at the girl I was when
34:28
Speaker 2: Don'tcha was released and feel embarrassed. The more I challenge
34:33
Speaker 2: myself and my beliefs as I became an adult, the
34:36
Speaker 2: more I could look back at this girl and.
34:38
Speaker 1: Find her cute.
34:39
Speaker 2: I look at her and I want to tell her
34:41
Speaker 2: that I'm sorry for being embarrassed by her, and that
34:45
Speaker 2: obviously struck a chord with me, and I think it's
34:48
Speaker 2: going to strike a chord with a lot of people
34:51
Speaker 2: who will relate to that. But how important was it
34:54
Speaker 2: to connect with your inner child during your recovery to
34:58
Speaker 2: get to where you are today?
35:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was everything.
35:02
Speaker 4: I think that's like the final piece of the puzzle,
35:04
Speaker 4: being able to be like, oh, and that's what this
35:06
Speaker 4: book's been really helpful with.
35:07
Speaker 3: Is Yeah, it's a shame thing.
35:09
Speaker 4: Like I did have a lot of shame about that
35:11
Speaker 4: little girl, and you know, the first time someone commented
35:14
Speaker 4: on my appearance and about my nose and I'd never
35:17
Speaker 4: thought about it, and then oh no, no, it's hanging
35:19
Speaker 4: over my head and I'm not the way that I
35:21
Speaker 4: want to look.
35:21
Speaker 3: And that's like a really important thing.
35:24
Speaker 4: So being able to like look at photos of yourself
35:26
Speaker 4: and not be embarrassed and not want to hide them,
35:28
Speaker 4: that that was like half me to write as well.
35:31
Speaker 4: That was an emotional sentence to write because I was like,
35:34
Speaker 4: it is it is even hard to say that you're embarrassed,
35:36
Speaker 4: Like that feeling of embarrassment over someone that you were
35:39
Speaker 4: that you are. It's about accepting yourself now through the
35:43
Speaker 4: little child. And I think like a lot of therapy
35:46
Speaker 4: talks about you and a child and like talking to
35:48
Speaker 4: it nicely because yeah, that person still yeah.
35:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that's what I mean.
35:54
Speaker 4: When people ask to see my nose before, I'm like, well,
35:57
Speaker 4: you're not allowed to be mean to that little girl.
35:59
Speaker 3: I am and I don't anymore.
36:01
Speaker 4: So I'm not going to let you look at the
36:02
Speaker 4: photo of me before and tell me that it looks
36:04
Speaker 4: a certain way because I'm still that person. And I
36:06
Speaker 4: think sometimes that's hard for people to wrap their heads around. Maybe,
36:12
Speaker 4: but yeah, I think like being able to because you
36:16
Speaker 4: still remember the feeling of what it was like to
36:18
Speaker 4: first not accept yourself. And I think because you can
36:21
Speaker 4: feel that it is something that you can change, like
36:23
Speaker 4: you can stay with you, but it can influence you
36:25
Speaker 4: to not perpetuate that, like not be nice to children
36:28
Speaker 4: and like realize that they're taking things on. You know,
36:30
Speaker 4: just because someone's ten or eleven doesn't mean shit's.
36:33
Speaker 3: Flowing off their back, like ye, yeah.
36:35
Speaker 4: They're smart children smart. So yeah, I'm glad you liked
36:39
Speaker 4: that bit.
36:39
Speaker 3: Yeah it was beautiful Oh.
36:42
Speaker 4: I don't know if I really answer that question, but
36:43
Speaker 4: you made me emotional.
36:45
Speaker 1: No, I think you definitely did.
36:47
Speaker 2: And I think it's just a nice reminder for people
36:51
Speaker 2: if they are, you know, being hard on themselves or
36:53
Speaker 2: being their own worst critic, whether it's physically or emotionally
36:57
Speaker 2: or mentally, to think of yourself as a child and
37:00
Speaker 2: be like, it's a reminder that you're doing life for
37:02
Speaker 2: the first time and you're still that person. And that
37:06
Speaker 2: person was like innocent and pure and had good intentions
37:09
Speaker 2: and just wanted to like be happy, and like you
37:11
Speaker 2: can still be that person.
37:13
Speaker 3: So yeah, it was beautiful.
37:14
Speaker 5: I think there's going to be so so many takeaways
37:17
Speaker 5: that people can get from this book. So I also
37:21
Speaker 5: just want to thank you for writing it, because this
37:24
Speaker 5: would have been a lot for someone to do and
37:26
Speaker 5: it's very very incredible of you. But I want to
37:30
Speaker 5: know what's your one takeaway that you really want people
37:33
Speaker 5: to take away from your book.
37:34
Speaker 4: Yes, my one takeaway is that thinking about food all
37:40
Speaker 4: the time is not normal. It shouldn't be normal. It's
37:45
Speaker 4: a prison. Know that you're in a prison if you're
37:47
Speaker 4: thinking mut all the time. I think that everyone is
37:50
Speaker 4: capable of going back to the way that they ate
37:52
Speaker 4: when they're a child. I know that eating issues can
37:55
Speaker 4: happen for people from a very very early age, but
37:58
Speaker 4: I think looking into idea like, your body's so smart.
38:02
Speaker 4: It knows what setway you meant to be. It knows
38:04
Speaker 4: how much it needs to eat. Someone to struggle with
38:07
Speaker 4: being eating And that was probably one of the hardest
38:08
Speaker 4: things for me because it was very physical and it
38:11
Speaker 4: was this problem that I couldn't work out. I was like,
38:14
Speaker 4: I can't stop thinking about food.
38:16
Speaker 3: I can't. And I'm like, I'm not going to go
38:19
Speaker 3: back to being a kid where I don't think about it.
38:20
Speaker 4: I've already opened Pandora's box. I'm never going to be
38:22
Speaker 4: able to get that back. So my biggest takeaway, and
38:25
Speaker 4: the biggest message that I hope at least one person
38:28
Speaker 4: takes away from the book, is that it is possible
38:31
Speaker 4: to not diet. It might You might have one hundred
38:34
Speaker 4: percent of the people in your orbit will be dieting.
38:37
Speaker 4: It's one way or another, watching what they eat, not
38:39
Speaker 4: eating certain things, and that's their prerogative. That everyone's entitled
38:42
Speaker 4: to eat what they do and don't want. So I guess, yeah,
38:45
Speaker 4: the biggest takeaway would be know that dieting doesn't have
38:48
Speaker 4: to be normal, and just know that. Like I'm someone
38:51
Speaker 4: who was a hardcore dieter, and I don't think about
38:54
Speaker 4: food at all anymore.
38:56
Speaker 3: It's crazy. I think that's very unusual. I don't think
38:59
Speaker 3: it should be on your usual.
39:01
Speaker 4: But every day I wake up and I'm going to
39:03
Speaker 4: brag about it, like I'm sorry, but it's amazing.
39:05
Speaker 3: We've done the work. Yeah, I wake up and I
39:07
Speaker 3: don't I just think what am I gonna eat today?
39:09
Speaker 3: I don't even know. I don't care.
39:10
Speaker 4: I'll just eat when I'm hungry. I'll eat whatever's there,
39:12
Speaker 4: might feel like something super healthy, might feel like whatever
39:15
Speaker 4: is in front of me. But I've got other things
39:17
Speaker 4: to think about.
39:18
Speaker 3: That's beautiful. Thank you so much. It's amazing.
39:21
Speaker 2: We finish all of our episodes with guests with the
39:25
Speaker 2: same question, and that is, what's your biggest life lesson
39:29
Speaker 2: you've learned so far?
39:31
Speaker 3: Mine is that a smile is everything. Oh it's beautiful,
39:36
Speaker 3: I really mean it. It feels spiritual.
39:39
Speaker 4: I'm not really a spiritual person, but like when you
39:41
Speaker 4: walk past someone on the street and you smile, like
39:44
Speaker 4: lights something up in my heart.
39:45
Speaker 3: I can't even describe.
39:46
Speaker 4: It's like a little something like very very deep, just
39:48
Speaker 4: gets a little warmth around it.
39:51
Speaker 3: It's a sparkling. There's something in it.
39:53
Speaker 4: Guys, there's something spiritual about smiling. It sounds so naough
39:58
Speaker 4: and so like I wish we could ald baker Ca
40:00
Speaker 4: and eat it together.
40:02
Speaker 3: But you know what I mean, just have a lot
40:03
Speaker 3: of feelings.
40:04
Speaker 4: Yeah, someone young, a little baby, an old person, and
40:07
Speaker 4: you just smile, and that's just like.
40:10
Speaker 3: It's the best for me.
40:11
Speaker 5: I'm done, Like, yes, yeah, I love especially when it's
40:15
Speaker 5: a stranger.
40:16
Speaker 4: Yes, we have no business smiling each other. We don't
40:20
Speaker 4: want anything from each other, and we're just smiling and beautiful.
40:22
Speaker 5: I would love for this to be everyone's takeaway, like
40:25
Speaker 5: on Today that you listen to this episode, smile at
40:28
Speaker 5: a stranger.
40:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's seriously special.
40:31
Speaker 4: And even if they don't smile back, they've clocked it,
40:33
Speaker 4: and a few more smiles and they'll start, Yeah, you're won.
40:37
Speaker 1: Smile for them to start smiling at other people.
40:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, beautiful. I'm going to go a.
40:42
Speaker 1: Smile at everyone like a mannic smile at the same time.
40:51
Speaker 3: Yeah.
40:51
Speaker 2: Fully, for anybody who doesn't already follow you, where can
40:55
Speaker 2: they find you.
40:56
Speaker 3: And of course where can people find the book?
40:58
Speaker 4: Yes, so you can follow me at rooms Instagram that's
41:00
Speaker 4: where I'm most vocal. That's rooms with three o's. And
41:04
Speaker 4: then you can get my book wherever you get books.
41:07
Speaker 4: I think it'd be at the airport bw all. Your
41:09
Speaker 4: indie retailers have really gotten behind it, which is great.
41:12
Speaker 3: So you just see it. It's yellow with a pink
41:14
Speaker 3: writing all over. Wanted us to be hot, gorgeous. We'll
41:17
Speaker 3: call links in the show now of course, get the
41:20
Speaker 3: chicks around it.
41:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely well, thank you so much for coming on again.
41:25
Speaker 1: I don't think we need to repeat it, but it
41:27
Speaker 1: was an absolute pleasure.
41:28
Speaker 3: The book is wonderful.
41:29
Speaker 1: You should be so proud.
41:31
Speaker 3: And thanks to you chicks for having us in the
41:33
Speaker 3: ear holes. We love to be here.
41:35
Speaker 1: And thank you to MK made for making today's episode happen.
41:38
Speaker 3: Love it.
41:38
Speaker 1: Bye Chicky, Bye Chicks