Latest / Identity at the Center / #246 - IDAC Mailbag - Halloween 2023 Edition

Transcript

#246 - IDAC Mailbag - Halloween 2023 Edition · Identity at the Center

• 0:05
  This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with
• 0:10
  IAM, this is the go to podcast now your hosts Jim McDonald and
• 0:17
  Jeff Stedman. Welcome to the Identity the
• 0:22
  Center podcast. I'm Jeff and that's Jim.
• 0:24
  Hey, Jim. Hey, Jeff.
• 0:26
  How are you? Oh, not so bad yourself.
• 0:28
  I'm doing pretty good. OK, so today is November 5th.
• 0:33
  We're recording. It's going to get, This is going
• 0:34
  to be dropped on November 13th. In between, I'm going to have
• 0:39
  surgery on my sinuses. So I've got ADV to supplement,
• 0:43
  which means I'm like a heavy breather and a mouth breather.
• 0:47
  And one of the reasons it's not fun, man.
• 0:49
  Yeah, Well, no, no. I mean, this might be the last
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  episode that I get text from you.
• 0:54
  Like, I can hear you breathing. I mean, this might actually even
• 0:58
  change how I sound. So I may go from my kind of
• 1:02
  nasally voice. I might sound like Morgan
• 1:04
  Freeman in a month. Well, I could certainly make
• 1:06
  that happen. I can make it also also sound
• 1:08
  worse, maybe like a chipmunk I guess if I keep out there
• 1:11
  listening and like they listen to this episode, right?
• 1:13
  Kind of the kind of pre surgery and then the next few after this
• 1:17
  post surgery. Like, is there a difference in
• 1:19
  the voice? I don't know.
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  I mean, it'd be interesting to see.
• 1:22
  Definitely a scientific experiment we can run here on
• 1:24
  the show, but we could make a YouTube short out of it.
• 1:28
  Could could do that. We're starting to put our
• 1:30
  episodes up on YouTube, so I think we're just before we hit
• 1:33
  recourse. It's Sunday morning, right?
• 1:35
  You said November 5th and episode #170 just went live on
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  the YouTube channel and then this is going to end up being
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  episode probably 246 I believe. So it's slowly catching up, this
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  dedication, man, with I think this is our first episode
• 1:54
  recorded on Sunday. I thought Saturdays were bad.
• 1:58
  You know, Saturday is dedicated to college football for me.
• 2:01
  I love college football. And I was actually listening to
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  one of our YouTube that you know, our episodes from.
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  I don't know, it might have been two years ago and you and I were
• 2:11
  going back and forth and you're like, I hate college football.
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  I don't watch college football, but you live in the South now.
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  I I believe you will be converted.
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  I don't think so. I it's just I still not
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  interested, still don't care. I am a NFL person.
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  Talk to me when they're professional and that's pretty
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  much how I look at it. I think part of this is I don't
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  have like an alma mater to to be able to be like say, oh, OK,
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  like that's my team. Like if I lived in Chicago for a
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  long time. The Bears, you know, are kind of
• 2:37
  my team I lived in. California.
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  So the Niners are kind of like my team.
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  I haven't changed those two allegiances having moved to
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  North Carolina. Now, I'm not a Panthers fan.
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  I'm still a Bears and a Niners fan, but I don't.
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  I don't feel that same affinity towards a college team because I
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  just, I don't have that connection now.
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  Are you the type of person that would you?
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  I know you haven't moved around that much, but now that you move
• 2:57
  somewhere, do you feel like within the next 10 years that
• 3:00
  you could become a fan of like local teams like the Panthers?
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  I don't think so, but. Maybe that's just me getting old
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  and stuck in my ways. I mean, it's not that I it's not
• 3:12
  that I won't cheer for them or something if I don't have, like,
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  an alternative to cheer for it, right?
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  If the Bears are playing the Panthers, I'm cheering for the
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  Bears. If the Niners are playing for
• 3:19
  the Panthers, I'm cheering for the Niners.
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  If the Bears play the Niners, I'm usually a bit conflicted.
• 3:24
  But you know, that's that's doesn't happen very often.
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  Don't have to worry about that. But I just don't see myself.
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  I don't know. I just For whatever reason,
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  college just doesn't do it for me.
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  It never has, and I don't think it ever will.
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  But who knows? Well, I did my undergraduate in
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  a school that is the division two school that I was supposed
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  to never heard of. I did my graduate degree at
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  Rutgers. When I went there, they
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  literally had a season with zero wins.
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  Now they're pretty good. They played Ohio State yesterday
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  and they were respectable, but they're still not like in the
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  national conversation. It's but I live in Georgia.
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  We've got the best team in the country and it's exciting.
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  I have heard of all those teams. Yes.
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  That's pretty good. Yeah.
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  So I mean, between YouTube and AI, you know, there's now a new
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  Beatles song. Yeah.
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  Have you heard it? What's it called here?
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  I I haven't heard. I heard about it, but I haven't
• 4:22
  heard it. Yeah.
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  So if you're if you're a Beatles fan, I think it's interesting to
• 4:26
  check out on Apple Music. They have the song, obviously,
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  but they also have like a 10 minute short film.
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  That you can watch, kind of see how they kind of put together.
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  So it's pretty interesting. I think the AI is a little bit
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  of a misnomer because it's really more machine learning,
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  which technically, yes, AI. But I think the perception is
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  that it's like, oh, somebody cloned, you know, John Lennon's
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  voice or something like that. That's not what happens.
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  I don't know if I want to spoil it.
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  Do you want me to spoil it for you, or do you want me to tell
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  you how it actually what they actually did?
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  I wouldn't mind if you spoiled it for me, but I don't want you
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  to spoil for all of our other fans, so maybe we actually we
• 5:03
  should even put a link in the show notes.
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  Spoiler Jeff, I'm going to leave it to you.
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  You decide. OK.
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  Well, I feel like I need to explain it just a little bit to
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  kind of help understand. So if you're interested in
• 5:13
  seeing how it was done, go watch the Apple Music, take 10
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  minutes, watch that and then come back here and listen to
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  this. And in, I don't know, two or
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  three minutes, we'll probably be done with this part.
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  But OK, that's the warning. So the way that they did this
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  was. They had a tape recording of
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  John Lennon and a song that he had like a demo tape basically
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  from 1980 or 81 or something like that towards the end of his
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  life. And they had tried to work on
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  creating new songs based on this in the past.
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  And so if you remember like in the mid 90s they released the
• 5:48
  anthology album that had like. A bunch of their old stuff and
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  there was like a new song on there, and that was based off of
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  some of the stuff that John Lennon had already kind of
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  recorded and was put there but was never released.
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  What they struggled with the time was this other song that
• 6:02
  they ended up calling here and now where it was John Lennon
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  playing over a piano and sort of again, very rough.
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  Obviously it's a demo tape, you know, it's literally recorded on
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  tape, you know, tape itself, right.
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  But putting it together and they could never quite figure out how
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  to. Separate the channels to be able
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  to have just John Lennon's voice as a stem and the piano as a
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  stem, because then that way they could kind of separate it and
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  kind of figure out how to make it make it work.
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  Fast forward to a year ago 20/22 and the rise of AI and kind of
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  the computational things we're able to do now and they actually
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  enlisted Peter Jackson. Of Lord of the Rings fame and
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  The Hobbit and stuff like that and all the techno industry they
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  that they have put in place to figure out a way to separate
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  John Lennon's voice from that track that also contained the
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  piano that was giving him so much trouble before.
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  And so they're able to take that and basically extract his voice
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  just out. And now they've put together
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  this song and McCartney and Ringo put together.
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  Kind of their parts of it. They use some stuff that George
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  Harrison had done in the past and pulled together this thing
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  and now there's this song and it's it's amazing to think about
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  kind of like that kind of thing because you know, being able to
• 7:27
  separate out voice from something else, something I do
• 7:29
  all the time and I take advantage of.
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  Definitely AI in this podcast, right?
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  Trying to make sure our voices sound, you know, as reasonably
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  polished as I can, background noises, things like that.
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  But if you think about. Where they were.
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  And now like this, this technology is out there for, you
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  know, normal people to be able to use.
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  It's pretty amazing. Yeah.
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  That's really cool, man. That's.
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  I mean, that's that's a beauty. Like a really positive view on
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  AI. Because I think sometimes you
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  can get dragged down with like a is going to end humanity as we
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  know it. A is don't put us all out of
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  jobs. It might, yeah, it might.
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  But I don't think it will. It's like anything else.
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  I feel like it's a tool. It can be used for good, bad and
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  everything in between, and hopefully we have enough guide
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  rails and things like that around it to try and steer it in
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  the direction that it should be going.
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  But it was interesting and I think he's just, again, the kind
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  of misnomer of, like it wasn't like somebody cloned John
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  Lennon's voice to do this. It was literally just the
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  extraction of his voice off of a track that had a lot of
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  background noise to it. In this case, a piano that was
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  making it very difficult for them to do that in the past, but
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  it was pretty neat. I think it's, you know, if if
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  you're a fan of that sort of things or The Beatles, check it
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  out on Apple Music. They said they have like that 10
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  or 12 minute sort of like making of video and then the actual
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  song itself. So I don't know if it's
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  necessarily what I would call a banger, but it's a new Beatles
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  song. I know people kind of go crazy
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  for that kind of stuff sometimes.
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  How many people did you have come to your house for
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  Halloween? I don't know because I wasn't
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  home. I know I I live kind of up on
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  the side of a mountain and then we had kids come through.
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  It's kind of like a pack. There's probably like maybe 30
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  homes I think up here. So I'm not sure how many kids
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  came through, but I want to say somewhere around 2025, maybe at
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  most had I absolutely. That surprised me, considering
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  you have like the long driveway and everything.
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  It's a lot of work. That's probably why if I come to
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  your house, I'm expecting a full size handy bar, I'm saying.
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  We we did have Snickers and Twix I saw in one of the buckets.
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  So I did notice that last night. But yeah, I wasn't home because
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  I was on my way to Durham for for work, which was kind of
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  cool. So I thought this week was like,
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  this week was kind of like a good showing of like the
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  differences of like what an identity consultant can be,
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  especially like some of like our like our roles and things like
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  that, like just kind of going back, right.
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  So this is the week of Halloween and.
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  I was home on Monday for the first time in like weeks to be
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  able to like work from home like fully.
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  And then of course because I was home that meant like meetings
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  basically from like 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM non-stop.
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  And then Tuesday I had meetings in the morning and then needed
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  to drive out to Durham to run AIM Workshop on Wednesday, which
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  was a lot of fun. You know, great group of people.
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  It's interesting to me that we're still finding people out
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  there and we you and I are so close to this, right.
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  And everybody probably listened, This is like oh OK, you know, of
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  course identity, access management, get it, blah blah,
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  blah. But there are still lots of
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  people out there that really don't know the space.
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  So being able to conduct like a basically an all day workshop
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  and kind of educate on here's what I am, is here's what it
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  means to run a program. You know, here's what IGA is
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  like. Educating, like, just stuff like
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  that was a lot of fun. My voice was shot man by the end
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  of the day Wednesday. I think it talked straight for
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  another 12 hours, but yeah. Then had lunch on Thursday with
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  our friend Arturo. We talked identity over chicken
• 11:00
  and waffles. For those interested.
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  We went to Dame's Chicken and Waffles and I give it A7 I
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  think, or 8. The chicken was good.
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  The waffle was a little bit small and it wasn't a Belgian
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  waffle. It was like a cinnamon vanilla
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  waffle. It was OK, definitely.
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  I would say it's third place. Am I tearing of chicken and
• 11:22
  waffles? Would the chicken Was the
• 11:25
  chicken like bone in or was it boneless?
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  Well, you could choose. This is kind of cool things.
• 11:29
  You choose your chicken, so you could do like a cutlet, you
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  could do wings, you kind of whatever you know pieces you
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  want. Then you choose the type of
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  waffle you want. Normal in quotation marks, which
• 11:41
  was their cinnamon thing, and then like sweet potato gross.
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  Or like these other flavors of waffles that that should not be
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  allowed. And then you pick like a
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  schmear, which is kind of like Nutella or like a Maple butter
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  or like a whole bunch of different things.
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  And then you can choose a sauce to dip your chicken in.
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  So they had like a bunch of stuff that sounds amazing.
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  And and of course, then, you know, syrup, you know, for the
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  waffle and stuff like that. So yeah, it was good.
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  Like I said, the chicken was good.
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  The waffle was OK. Not the worst I've had, but
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  definitely not the best. I'm a Belgian waffle guy, so I
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  feel like to have the best chicken and waffles, you need
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  Belgian waffle. Bonus points if you've got bacon
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  in the batter. And then really good fried
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  chicken. And yeah, it was fun.
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  So we talked to Identity Chicken and Waffles and I drove home,
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  had a bunch of days meetings Friday, and then now I'm turning
• 12:29
  around the Sunday. I gotta fly out tonight and
• 12:31
  spend all week on the road again.
• 12:32
  Pretty much doing stuff, yeah. Do you think that most people
• 12:36
  think, oh, Jeff's got this glamorous life, He's traveling
• 12:41
  all the time. It's so, so interesting.
• 12:44
  It's. I think so.
• 12:46
  I think if you don't travel, it may seem like that sometimes,
• 12:49
  but you know, for every, I don't know, great travel experience,
• 12:53
  we've kind of talked about that. Like there's probably a dozen
• 12:55
  bad ones like. You know, I had to leave San
• 12:58
  Diego when we were at the Thunder Cake Conference like
• 13:00
  very early Wednesday morning, like 4:30 in the morning to make
• 13:04
  it out to Indianapolis for for another work item.
• 13:07
  And we sat on the tarmac in San Diego for 4 1/2 hours, not going
• 13:11
  anywhere because of fog and a whole bunch of other things.
• 13:13
  And so that was not great. But I like to travel.
• 13:17
  So it it it doesn't necessarily, you know, bother me, but I could
• 13:21
  certainly wear on you. This will be like by 12 week in
• 13:25
  a row. Going somewhere on the road for
• 13:27
  something and it'll be interesting.
• 13:29
  I don't really like to travel. I mean I I like to do a little
• 13:34
  bit of travel or some travel. So I I mean I guess this is the,
• 13:38
  the hopeful message for folks who are considering getting into
• 13:41
  consulting but are afraid that they'll be on the road every
• 13:44
  week. I think that's the way it used
• 13:46
  to be at a lot of consulting firms and probably is still at
• 13:49
  some consulting firms. But most of the people who are
• 13:52
  on the delivery side that I work with and including myself are
• 13:58
  not traveling every week. I haven't.
• 14:01
  I mean, I travel for the conferences.
• 14:02
  I did one client travel. Actually, the client travel was
• 14:06
  super fun because the part I like about travel is getting in
• 14:11
  a room with people whiteboarding.
• 14:13
  It's just so exciting to actually sit there and kind of
• 14:16
  like think through a problem and try to solve a problem and get
• 14:19
  as far as you can with the whiteboard.
• 14:21
  I love that stuff. And especially when you are kind
• 14:25
  of in our role which is you know, you're, you're using your
• 14:29
  experience, It's interesting as you're talking about like people
• 14:32
  not kind of knowing that I Am and IGA space and stuff like
• 14:37
  that. It kind of made me think of
• 14:39
  like, well, you know, you and I, we use CRM all the time.
• 14:43
  We're well familiar with CRM, but would you be able to go up
• 14:47
  and explain it to people like no, but this I am space we
• 14:51
  really know. So we can actually sketch things
• 14:53
  on the whiteboard and people ask questions like oh so how would
• 14:57
  this talk to this And then you, you know from your experience,
• 15:00
  so it's a lot of fun and you know I'm I'm working still like
• 15:04
  my focus is still I am advisory or digital.
• 15:08
  I like to say digital identity advisory because it can span the
• 15:11
  whole space. You know, still working a lot
• 15:15
  with, there's still a lot of organizations that are kind of
• 15:17
  working through the blocking and tackling like what is IGA,
• 15:22
  should I have IGA in most places kind of start with single sign
• 15:27
  on. But now they're getting into,
• 15:29
  you know, how do I do a better job of administering and
• 15:31
  governing access? How do I deal with privilege
• 15:34
  access management. And so I'm working with a client
• 15:37
  right now where you know we we went on, so I did the workshops.
• 15:41
  Now we're going back and kind of building out the deliverables
• 15:44
  and to me that's fun as well. Like you know, thinking about
• 15:48
  everything you heard, putting together an assessment, making
• 15:51
  recommendations based on that assessment and turning it into a
• 15:55
  consumable story that has a logical beginning and a logical,
• 15:59
  you know, ending and everything in between.
• 16:00
  So you know that that is I think the the contrast is you know I
• 16:07
  know you're out kind of like meeting with prospective clients
• 16:11
  or we're actual clients and I'm more at home being able to do
• 16:16
  it. And you know I will say I had to
• 16:19
  do a lot more travel pre pandemic too because a lot more
• 16:23
  clients were 100% in the office and wanted to have you on site.
• 16:28
  And we're less used to using video conferencing to accomplish
• 16:33
  really what it's hard to accomplish what you talked about
• 16:37
  you know one day workshop and get everybody to pay attention
• 16:40
  to like a teams meeting or Webex all day.
• 16:44
  But everybody I think is used to doing it for an hour to two
• 16:48
  hours at a time and and staying focused and getting things done.
• 16:51
  So I think that's been a a huge way to cut cut down on it.
• 16:57
  And then the other thing was, you know, we're kind of like
• 17:00
  working through like coming up with a big picture strategy for,
• 17:05
  you know, potential projects in the future which would be
• 17:10
  converting from a legacy access management solution or web
• 17:14
  access management to a modern system.
• 17:18
  It's like it's right in my wheelhouse.
• 17:20
  So it's not like I don't have to think, I definitely have to
• 17:23
  think about it, but it's you know one, that's one of the
• 17:26
  things that I think, you know, I'm sure everybody who's like
• 17:30
  early in their career wants to go faster.
• 17:32
  They want to move up the chain faster.
• 17:34
  And like, hey, I wanted to do the same thing, but there's a
• 17:38
  certain amount of experience that when you build it up, it's
• 17:42
  like you have these knowings and you have like, I've done that.
• 17:46
  I've actually done that. So you can talk about it, and
• 17:49
  like you, you can't skip that step.
• 17:52
  Yeah, that experience like is so important, but being able to
• 17:55
  communicate all that stuff. But I just thought it was really
• 17:57
  interesting because we're just before hit recorder, like, all
• 17:59
  right, you know, we had like really different weeks.
• 18:03
  It's like, OK, that's just, I guess you know.
• 18:05
  You know, part of its role I think kind of we each play
• 18:07
  within, you know what we do for our our real job.
• 18:10
  But it's interesting. I was, I was like kind of
• 18:13
  peeling back on that and then it'll be another interesting
• 18:15
  week on the road again and hopefully.
• 18:20
  Your your thing goes well right. And voices sound it'd be
• 18:24
  interesting. I'm, I'm curious, I'm, I'm
• 18:25
  really interested to see how this turns out in the voice
• 18:27
  because I know our voices so well for doing all the audio
• 18:30
  editing, you know, over 246 episodes.
• 18:33
  And it'll be interesting to see, like how it changes, if at all.
• 18:36
  Maybe it doesn't. Well, yeah, I'm going to have to
• 18:39
  rely on people like you to tell me because I listen to the
• 18:44
  podcast. I'm like, I don't sound like
• 18:45
  that. Everybody hates their own voice.
• 18:48
  Yeah, But I think mine's changed over time, too.
• 18:52
  I think, like, I can tell you right now, I'm not breathing
• 18:55
  through my nose. I can't breathe through my nose
• 18:57
  while I'm talking. Just.
• 18:58
  I can kind of tell congested basically well hopefully this
• 19:01
  works out for you brother I I'm I'm curious I want to see from a
• 19:05
  scientific standpoint but also from a health standpoint you
• 19:07
  know hopefully it's clears things up for you.
• 19:10
  We had a bunch of questions come in that we've like been saving
• 19:13
  sort of like a mailbag. We'll see how many we can get to
• 19:17
  today, but. A very worldwide mailbag as
• 19:20
  well, like a lot of international folks reached out,
• 19:23
  which is very cool. What what is our listenership as
• 19:27
  far as the the globe is concerned?
• 19:30
  I mean, it's not all USI think that at one point we said it was
• 19:33
  like 60%. Yeah.
• 19:34
  It's like around 40% is international.
• 19:37
  Sometimes it kind of goes up and down kind of depending on the
• 19:39
  month or whatever it may be. But let's call it like 40% is
• 19:42
  international, which is pretty cool, you know, for a couple of.
• 19:46
  Guys here who can barely speak English as it is, that are
• 19:48
  people around the world are able to to listen in.
• 19:50
  But yeah, so it's cool we get any sort of feedback right from
• 19:56
  anybody who's listening out there.
• 19:57
  But when they send questions and it kind of helps Jim and I out
• 20:00
  like, OK, what should we talk about?
• 20:02
  Like we have an idea of what's interesting for us, but it's
• 20:05
  helpful when people. You know, send stuff to us and
• 20:07
  usually they send it in via LinkedIn or or things like that.
• 20:10
  Every once in a while they'll hit our website, idacpodcast.com
• 20:13
  and fill out sort of the contact form and kind of things like
• 20:15
  that. But yeah, why don't I just jump
• 20:19
  into this, I'll ask the question and let's see if we can stump
• 20:22
  you on anything and then if I have any color to add, I'll do
• 20:25
  that. All right, that sounds fun.
• 20:28
  OK. So the first question comes from
• 20:31
  Chloe in Melbourne, Australia. How should companies approach
• 20:36
  the integration of IEM with legacy systems that were not
• 20:40
  originally designed with modern IEM solutions in mind?
• 20:44
  I feel like we get this question a lot.
• 20:46
  Yeah. What do you think?
• 20:47
  What what I have to do is like not try and look at it as a
• 20:51
  trick question but kind of take it at face value.
• 20:54
  I think most I most legacy systems or even modern systems
• 20:59
  are not designed with like. Hey, you're going to hook this
• 21:03
  into an IM system. They almost all have IM
• 21:07
  capabilities built within the application, but especially
• 21:11
  legacy systems do because there were not centralized ID PS when
• 21:15
  they're first started up and they don't have any great
• 21:18
  integration capabilities for systems.
• 21:20
  But you know kind of the OG legacy system that I think of
• 21:25
  our like mainframes and mid range computers and application
• 21:29
  and they still exist in a lot of organizations.
• 21:32
  They don't interface well with an access management system.
• 21:35
  They don't typically work super well with an IGA system.
• 21:42
  Really what you're looking at is kind of for them.
• 21:44
  It's like a middleware situation where if you have like a top
• 21:47
  secret type of application, if you can, you know from an IGA
• 21:52
  perspective kind of extract and populate user accounts and.
• 21:57
  You know, do the best that you can in terms of like password
• 22:01
  management. That's a major benefit.
• 22:04
  Obviously if you're only Max accessing that application
• 22:08
  through some kind of front end processor, maybe like a web
• 22:11
  front end that you built to that application, that's great.
• 22:15
  But usually that's not the only way that people end up accessing
• 22:19
  those mainframes. And of course you have like
• 22:21
  web-based technologies and fat clients and a lot of those
• 22:24
  things are going away. I think one of the key things is
• 22:27
  like if you are rolling out an IM technology I you know
• 22:32
  modernizing your IM platform and you think about those
• 22:35
  applications, you have to really ask yourself like is this
• 22:39
  application going to be around more than two, three years?
• 22:43
  If it is, then it's worth the effort to integrate it,
• 22:46
  especially if it's a high risk application.
• 22:48
  I think if it's. If it doesn't qualify, it's
• 22:51
  either you're not sure. It's like, do you really want to
• 22:54
  spend the money? Because those can be very
• 22:56
  difficult to integrate with. That's my initial thought, yeah.
• 23:00
  The the part you talked about is what I kind of started with
• 23:02
  this. Is it worth it?
• 23:04
  You know, are we going to get value out of this?
• 23:06
  Are there other things that we need to be working on that are
• 23:09
  either quicker, faster, you know, whatever.
• 23:10
  It'd be easier if, like, I wouldn't start with stuff that
• 23:14
  doesn't lend itself well to integration because the next
• 23:17
  question is, OK, So we've determined that it's worth it.
• 23:20
  Now we have to decide, well, what do we mean by integration?
• 23:22
  Are we just talking authentication?
• 23:25
  Are we talking authorization? Do we need to do identity
• 23:27
  governance, privileged access, audit logging, you know,
• 23:31
  behavior analytics, right, things like that.
• 23:33
  So I think you kind of figure out like, OK, what's worth it to
• 23:37
  do is a big part of the answering that question.
• 23:40
  And sometimes the answer is no, it's not worth it.
• 23:43
  Let's focus on the 80% that we can do.
• 23:46
  And some things will just remain the way they are until the
• 23:51
  mainframe dies again for what, the fourth time in the last two
• 23:54
  decades at least that I've been hearing about it.
• 23:55
  So it's kind of like the password.
• 23:57
  Like everybody keeps expecting mainframes to go away, but
• 23:59
  they're still around and still actively being used.
• 24:03
  But I think those are the two things.
• 24:04
  Everything you said was like, right on, definitely, like, for
• 24:06
  sure. And it's is it worth it?
• 24:07
  And then what do you mean by integrate, like define what that
• 24:11
  integration looks like? Because I don't, I think you can
• 24:13
  also say, OK, well, for this application, maybe it's just
• 24:16
  authentication. We've got to put an MFA in front
• 24:18
  of it and that's it. We're good.
• 24:19
  Like it's not worth doing the rest.
• 24:21
  I think calculating that, you know that benefit and whether
• 24:24
  it's worth the time or the effort makes a lot of sense.
• 24:27
  OK, let's move to the next one. This one is from Priya in
• 24:31
  Bangalore, India. What are the emerging trends in
• 24:35
  IAM that you believe will shape the way we handle identity
• 24:38
  verification and access control in the next five years?
• 24:43
  Well, I think you know, identity verification to me brings up the
• 24:46
  whole idea around verifiable credentials, which is something
• 24:51
  like a passport or a driver's license or some other.
• 24:56
  You know, government issued identifier or identification
• 25:00
  card that can be scanned usually both sides where they have some
• 25:04
  kind of encrypted version of your face and then a picture of
• 25:11
  you and can then use your your camera to identify you.
• 25:16
  So I think that's, you know, we see it.
• 25:21
  Very minor use cases. I think the commoditization of
• 25:25
  that capability is a very real possibility in the next five
• 25:30
  years. So you know, I think that's what
• 25:32
  we start to see that you know, ubiquity is it's, it's not just
• 25:36
  about like being on the bleeding edge and and spotting something
• 25:40
  that you know is way far out there and saying, OK, that's
• 25:44
  that's the trend to me. It's like OK, what is now
• 25:48
  building this head of steam in ubiquity.
• 25:51
  Is ubiquity so important? It's like with passkeys, it's
• 25:53
  like it's starting to have ubiquity.
• 25:56
  When Google uses and things like that and people get used to it,
• 25:59
  now other companies can follow and then everybody's doing it
• 26:02
  like there's no passwords anymore potentially.
• 26:05
  So I think from an identity verification standpoint, you're
• 26:08
  starting to see it. It's running into some privacy
• 26:11
  concerns. But I think that's the the way
• 26:14
  that within five years we start saying, OK that's normal.
• 26:19
  Yeah, I feel like this is less of a technology problem at this
• 26:21
  point and more of a people and process because what's going to
• 26:25
  drive verify credential will be really government I think to
• 26:28
  some degree because I want mobile driver's license.
• 26:32
  So I have one less thing that I have to carry on with me, right.
• 26:34
  It's in my wallet. I mean it's in it's in my wallet
• 26:36
  today. But I want it on my phone.
• 26:37
  So I have you know, less of those things.
• 26:39
  But I can only go as fast as my government will let me, right.
• 26:42
  And I can only speak from the, you know, from the, from the US
• 26:46
  perspective is I don't know how quickly all states in the US
• 26:51
  will catch on with this and sort of get there.
• 26:54
  I hope it's within five years. And I know there's certainly a
• 26:56
  few states that have already kind of gone down this road.
• 26:58
  And I think I think Georgia is one of them, right.
• 27:00
  Isn't there a mobile driver's license in Georgia?
• 27:02
  And you're in Georgia. Yes, Georgia is one of the few.
• 27:05
  Yeah. So I think that's one thing to
• 27:09
  think about is how quickly will it actually move based on
• 27:12
  people, governments, organizations and citizens and
• 27:18
  things like that. Because I don't think this is a
• 27:19
  technology problem anymore. I think there are enough
• 27:22
  solutions out there and enough sources of truth to actually
• 27:27
  validate A credential that that's where my head is at right
• 27:31
  now. Change is hard.
• 27:33
  I mean I think you've got great technology options out there,
• 27:36
  but now we're talking about changing the way people do
• 27:39
  business, people interact with government.
• 27:42
  You, you rightfully so, need to have a lot of caution.
• 27:45
  Privacy concerns, you know, things like that certainly will
• 27:50
  rear their ugly heads as we're going through this process and
• 27:52
  make sure that things are covered and designed to be
• 27:54
  secure and and that's kind of what I'm thinking about right
• 27:58
  now. Yeah.
• 27:59
  I mean if if you think look at it from AUS perspective, there's
• 28:02
  kind of like distrust of the government built right into the
• 28:06
  US Constitution where you have the right not to be searched in
• 28:12
  some. Situations.
• 28:13
  Yeah, Yeah. Well, like, could you imagine
• 28:16
  being pulled over and then the police person asking you to
• 28:21
  unlock your phone and hand it to them, Would you want to do that?
• 28:24
  I wouldn't want to do that. And I don't think I have a lot
• 28:27
  to hide from. Oh, they're going to find
• 28:29
  something and arrest me for it. But it's just it's it's not,
• 28:34
  it's not appropriate. I don't think it's fair and I
• 28:36
  don't think that is the way it should work.
• 28:37
  So that's just one example. Yeah.
• 28:41
  OK, let's go to the next one. This one is from, and I hope I
• 28:44
  pronounced this correctly, Takumi in Tokyo, Japan.
• 28:48
  What role do you see artificial intelligence playing in the
• 28:52
  future of IAM? And how can we ensure these
• 28:55
  systems are transparent and fair?
• 28:59
  Wow, that's a loaded question. You go 1st.
• 29:02
  I'm going. To yeah, I'll go first, but I'm
• 29:04
  going to like pick on the first part of the question, which is
• 29:08
  like the role that I see. And I think if you look far
• 29:12
  enough out, it's artificial intelligence can run IM systems
• 29:17
  for organization. So a lot more can be right now
• 29:22
  we're relying on humans to run the run the software.
• 29:26
  I think that AI could become the runner of the software because I
• 29:33
  don't think there's a whole lot that can't be automated.
• 29:37
  And I also feel like there's when you say run, what do you
• 29:42
  mean? Like going in and configuring
• 29:44
  workflows, resolving errors and configurations?
• 29:49
  Like what do you mean? So I always like to try to take
• 29:52
  the 8020 rule, and I don't think that everything's going to be
• 29:56
  automated, but I feel like just like SoC is being outsourced.
• 30:02
  By companies to companies that run socks.
• 30:04
  For many other organizations, I think I am will kind of come the
• 30:08
  same way, where it'll it'll be run by an, you know, outsourced
• 30:13
  by an organization to some third party.
• 30:17
  But that software will do most of the running of the software,
• 30:22
  providing support through a automated fashion.
• 30:26
  All that plus I think the other thing there's shortcomings in.
• 30:31
  Identity management now. So I I can see a big functional
• 30:33
  up ramp where we say OK, IGA is not only knowing who has access
• 30:38
  to what, but also what are they doing with that access.
• 30:41
  In order to do that, there's a lot of big data that needs to be
• 30:44
  pushed into some kind of store and analyzed and those are
• 30:49
  things that that people can't do.
• 30:52
  So this is like the the two major areas that I see.
• 30:59
  How do we make sure that it's transparent and fair?
• 31:03
  You know, I think that really comes down to artificial
• 31:06
  intelligence is just computer code, right?
• 31:10
  I mean, it's lines of programming and it's going to
• 31:14
  have hard coded decisions. So if there's decisions are not
• 31:18
  transparent and fair, then the IGI AM system or the AI system
• 31:24
  will not be transparent and fair.
• 31:25
  So there's got to be some. Kind of rules of conduct, I
• 31:30
  here's one of my concerns is that like I feel like if AI goes
• 31:35
  so fast that we don't get these rules of the road in place,
• 31:41
  we're going to say, OK, we rely on on AI to make certain
• 31:46
  decisions. For us, but we don't know how
• 31:50
  it's going to make those decisions.
• 31:52
  So it's already happening. It to some extent where we say
• 31:55
  identity threat protection is going to spot certain types of
• 32:00
  behaviors and then block access. And so right now for the most
• 32:05
  part where I've seen it, it's kind of a black box.
• 32:07
  It's not like oh you want to allow headless browsers or don't
• 32:10
  allow headless browsers right now that's probably clearly we
• 32:14
  don't want to allow them. So maybe black box is all we
• 32:17
  need for the moment. But I kind of feel like if we
• 32:20
  don't, if we say, well we want to block people from North Korea
• 32:24
  or we don't want to block people from North Korea, like if that's
• 32:27
  black box and everybody needs to block people from North Korea,
• 32:31
  Well doesn't that go right to transparent in fairness like
• 32:34
  maybe people in North Korea should be able to you know enjoy
• 32:38
  the Internet. Obviously these other issues, I
• 32:41
  don't think they don't think they they weigh into that
• 32:43
  decision at all, these people. I don't think so either.
• 32:46
  But I was trying to come up with some kind of example.
• 32:49
  What if it was like China or some other country that you know
• 32:53
  it's like oh that's a a state sponsored terrorist country And
• 32:58
  we're not going to, we're you know we as a corporation we're
• 33:01
  going to block those people and now you as an organization who
• 33:05
  buys their their AI software, you're blocking all those
• 33:08
  people. Is that transparent and fair?
• 33:10
  I don't even answer not I think I don't know if we block people
• 33:13
  or more organizations I guess, but it's clear AI is going to
• 33:17
  have an impact on IM, right? We, we keep talking about it on
• 33:20
  this show. You hear it at like every
• 33:21
  conference and every webinar that you go to has some sort of
• 33:24
  AI component. At this point, I'm bullish on
• 33:27
  it. I think it will be helpful.
• 33:29
  I think again things like large language models have really
• 33:33
  changed my perception of where this kind of take things in the
• 33:36
  future. The transparency and fairness
• 33:39
  around it I believe is, you know, you want to have systems
• 33:43
  that are well designed, they're secure and they're accessible
• 33:46
  for people. When we start introducing a
• 33:50
  black box as you start, you know, call it at least for the
• 33:53
  AI perspective, their duty is there does need to be a way to
• 33:56
  look at how the decisions are being made, you know, even
• 33:59
  programmatically. And I think this is an area that
• 34:02
  I'm starting to see more thought go into, is attacks on large
• 34:06
  language models themselves. So what happens if you poison an
• 34:10
  organization's AI to give wrong or misleading information?
• 34:16
  That could be another way that I think people are gonna have to
• 34:18
  start thinking about. It's like, how do we make sure
• 34:19
  we keep our AI secure? And that how do you validate
• 34:23
  that the decision making that it's making is based off of
• 34:27
  accuracy on facts versus maybe something that somebody put in
• 34:31
  there, right? Maybe it's, you know, somebody
• 34:33
  gets in and says, hey, just, you know, just move this decimal
• 34:36
  point over a little bit and take fractions of a penny, right.
• 34:40
  You know, that kind of scenario, right.
• 34:42
  I think it's like, OK, how do we make sure that that stuff is
• 34:45
  there? And I think we definitely have
• 34:46
  seen, I think the industry's starting to come together on
• 34:49
  this. I think the White House in the
• 34:51
  US just put out a directive on this.
• 34:53
  You certainly see Microsoft and Meta and other and Open AI and
• 34:57
  like others that are in this AI space starting to kind of figure
• 34:59
  out how are we going to tackle this?
• 35:02
  I don't know. I think it's, I think it'll be
• 35:04
  interesting to see it comes out as they move things along.
• 35:08
  I think there's two things I just want to throw in there
• 35:10
  based on what you said. First off, I don't know how
• 35:13
  we're going to solve this Rules of the road thing.
• 35:16
  Like we still haven't solved privacy policies.
• 35:18
  You go to a website and it's like, oh, by clicking accept you
• 35:22
  agree to our privacy policy. Click here to read it.
• 35:26
  If you click here to read it, it's like 8000 pages long and.
• 35:30
  You don't read it anyway. It's like if you want to use the
• 35:32
  website, you just accept that is not the spirit of what's meant
• 35:36
  to happen. And if we run into that same
• 35:38
  kind of thing, then, you know, it's going to be every person
• 35:41
  for themselves. The other thing I I think with
• 35:45
  AI and I am, is mostly when I hear vendors talk about, Oh
• 35:49
  yeah, we've got AI. And then when they explain what
• 35:52
  it does, I'm like that's that's not revolutionary.
• 35:56
  That is not revolutionary. So does that mean it's not going
• 36:00
  to be revolutionary? No, I do think it will be at
• 36:02
  some point. But I also wonder if it's just
• 36:06
  going to be the major tech companies are the only ones who
• 36:09
  can provide the AI because they're the only ones who can
• 36:12
  actually create the AI. Yeah, it takes a lot of
• 36:15
  resources to develop this thing. So do we end up in the cyberpunk
• 36:18
  mega Corp world where the world is right, like 8 different
• 36:21
  organizations and it's all it's all business?
• 36:25
  OK, we've got another question from Japan and I definitely
• 36:29
  don't know how to pronounce this, but I'll try to get it
• 36:30
  right, either UE or maybe we from Kyoto, Japan asking.
• 36:35
  Glad you're to it. I'm glad you're taking taking
• 36:38
  the I'll. I'll take the heat if I
• 36:39
  pronounce that green correctly. Let me know how can I am
• 36:42
  solutions be designed to be more user friendly without
• 36:45
  compromising on security features.
• 36:47
  I mean, that's the usual question.
• 36:49
  Talking solutions be designed to be more user friendly.
• 36:55
  I say it's the usual question because it's always been like
• 36:57
  considered a bounce between usability and security.
• 37:01
  Meaning it's like you if you had a slider, if you make it more
• 37:05
  secure, it's going to be less user friendly, can make it more
• 37:08
  user friendly, it's going to be less secure.
• 37:11
  You know the the tagline for everything Pastor list is like
• 37:15
  actually, it's one of those few. Scenarios where when you make
• 37:20
  it, you're more user friendly, you get rid of passwords, you
• 37:23
  actually make it more secure, which I do think is true, but I
• 37:28
  think you know the spirit of the question is like, OK if I'm
• 37:31
  designing an IM system, how do I make sure that I get both
• 37:35
  things? I think it's involvement.
• 37:38
  Of the users. It kind of goes back to the
• 37:40
  discussion we were having about workshops.
• 37:42
  What's one way to ensure that your IM deployment will fail is
• 37:47
  like, don't include people that it's going to affect.
• 37:49
  Yeah, you don't include them, it's almost guaranteed to fail,
• 37:53
  but you do include them. You increase your likelihood of
• 37:55
  success. They'll also give you the
• 37:57
  feedback of like, what do they not understand?
• 38:00
  Because a lot of times user friendliness just comes down to
• 38:03
  making it more understandable if you kind of get inside the head
• 38:07
  of. You know whoever your customer
• 38:09
  or user is, and you design around that, you can increase
• 38:14
  the user friendliness without even affecting security.
• 38:17
  You may also find that like there's no way we can remember
• 38:23
  16 character passwords. Like that's not going to work
• 38:28
  and so you might have to, you might have to.
• 38:30
  I'm. I'm presuming that's a really
• 38:32
  bad example, but. Just using that as an area where
• 38:35
  you might say, OK, well, actually involving the users
• 38:38
  made me rethink this password policy.
• 38:41
  But if you, you think about it, like, yeah, when you give people
• 38:45
  16 character passwords, they're going to find ways around
• 38:49
  they're write down the password or they're going to do whatever
• 38:51
  they have to do to not make it so that they have to go through
• 38:56
  a reset password every time. No, there's a added number.
• 38:58
  I think it's the number at the end, yeah.
• 39:01
  That's how we get it. Include this.
• 39:02
  Folks in your process and and really listen to them.
• 39:06
  And then I add a question to this as well because I think
• 39:08
  this next one is kind of in the same vein.
• 39:10
  It's from Beatrice in Rome. How can organizations ensure
• 39:15
  that their IM solutions are inclusive and accessible to all
• 39:18
  users regardless of their technical skill level.
• 39:21
  So I think he kind of touched there and the question previous
• 39:24
  question around do people understand what they're doing
• 39:27
  like what's the training, what's the, you know, how do we bring
• 39:30
  people up to speed. But thoughts on inclusivity and
• 39:33
  accessibility and how that how that aligns with technical
• 39:39
  capability? Yeah, it's it's not only
• 39:42
  technical capability, but you also think about disabilities
• 39:45
  like some folks have, you know, different types of issues and
• 39:50
  there are browsers made for, you know, different disabilities
• 39:55
  that you know, if you can't, if you're blind for example, that
• 39:59
  they can. Read for you.
• 40:00
  Or, you know, if you just make assumptions that everybody fits
• 40:05
  a certain mold, everybody has the ability to see or everybody
• 40:10
  has the ability to hear or they're all using a keyboard to
• 40:13
  enter like you need to challenge his assumptions.
• 40:18
  And I think this becomes more and more true as you're
• 40:19
  providing services to the citizens.
• 40:21
  So I I think that's it's so easy to kind of like fall into the
• 40:25
  mindset of like oh, I've been working with you know, B to E
• 40:30
  kind of scenarios with you know, certain size employee
• 40:34
  populations, captive audience or they're just in the US and
• 40:38
  everybody's going to kind of have the same understanding and
• 40:40
  all that. When you're talking about like
• 40:43
  you know the citizens or you're talking about large global
• 40:47
  outreach or you're talking about B to C, you have to take up all
• 40:51
  these things into account even more and challenge yourself on
• 40:54
  those moves. Basic assumptions that people
• 40:57
  have these capabilities. I think from a technical skill
• 41:00
  level, you know, again I think it's technical skills can be a
• 41:05
  lot of things, but I think it also can map back to you know,
• 41:10
  age and experience especially like the older population within
• 41:14
  our world they were did not grow up with technology in their
• 41:18
  hands from a very early age. I I kind of feel like the
• 41:22
  technical skills of teenagers is probably a lot better than you
• 41:27
  know, technical skills of of senior citizens.
• 41:30
  You know, we haven't talked about your dad in a while.
• 41:31
  Like, how would you? That's exactly who I was
• 41:34
  thinking. I figured, How would you explain
• 41:37
  a passkey to your dad? I wouldn't.
• 41:40
  I would not even try. I will tell you that he's found
• 41:44
  e-mail within the last couple of years and it's like he's bonkers
• 41:48
  over e-mail. He like, emails me all the time
• 41:50
  and I'm like and then he gets mad.
• 41:51
  If I don't e-mail him right back.
• 41:53
  I'm like dad, it's not like it's not.
• 41:56
  It's not a real. Time messaging platform, right?
• 41:59
  Yeah. We were out the other night and
• 42:01
  sat down with some folks who we didn't know.
• 42:03
  They're just strangers. And the guy next to me, the guy
• 42:08
  who like, shared their table with us, he's very excited.
• 42:12
  He took a picture of he and his wife and posted to Facebook.
• 42:15
  You got 32 likes on it in like 1/2 hour.
• 42:18
  And he's like, showed me. I was like, Oh my goodness, Oh
• 42:24
  my goodness, I've already been through.
• 42:26
  I was on Facebook for a decade and then closed my account like
• 42:30
  5-6 years ago. And like, you could tell he just
• 42:33
  got Facebook. And he's like excited that so
• 42:36
  many people like this picture with his wife, which I was happy
• 42:39
  for him because he's kind of like almost in that infancy
• 42:41
  level of dealing with Facebook. He hasn't.
• 42:45
  He hasn't like. Felt the like the hatred for it
• 42:48
  yet. Embrace the joy that happens.
• 42:50
  Embrace the joy. All right.
• 42:52
  This is our last one and I think this is 1 near and dear to your
• 42:55
  heart. So from Rachel in Seattle, WA.
• 42:58
  With the proliferation of micro services and containerized
• 43:02
  environments, how can organizations effectively manage
• 43:06
  and secure machine identities at scale?
• 43:10
  You're all about machine identities recently, so let's
• 43:12
  have at it. Well, yeah.
• 43:14
  Well, we had David Mahdie on and I think that was a fantastic
• 43:17
  episode. So if you want to really dive in
• 43:21
  to that that topic, I would go back and listen to that episode.
• 43:25
  But you know kind of pulling Rachel's question apart here, I
• 43:31
  think, you know there's two different types of machine
• 43:34
  identities of those that are static and those that are
• 43:38
  created and destroyed, you know, perhaps within seconds.
• 43:43
  But I think what we're trying to get to is like 0 sending
• 43:46
  privileges. So I think that even those
• 43:49
  machines that are created and destroyed, you know, the the
• 43:53
  idea is that OK, you're not creating an account that should
• 43:56
  be around and and like I'm going to create the account.
• 43:59
  I'm just going to let it sit there until I need it again.
• 44:01
  And then we had to just check it out and do what I have to do.
• 44:04
  But the idea is already pre thought in terms of what access
• 44:10
  that account needs to have to do the thing that this application
• 44:14
  or service wants to do. And so those rules of the road
• 44:19
  should be set. They should be built into the
• 44:21
  micro services that create and destroy that account.
• 44:25
  Like you can only get an account that has this much and then
• 44:29
  business rules may be that all right if it's not destroyed
• 44:32
  within a certain amount of time, then it's destroyed.
• 44:35
  Those you know as information security professionals we need
• 44:38
  to talk with the the developers of these micro services to you
• 44:44
  know agree on the rules of the road so that they understand.
• 44:48
  We understand we can stay within our controls, You know, for
• 44:52
  these accounts that always have to exist and maybe have standing
• 44:57
  privileges, we just have to have controls around them.
• 45:01
  You know, we need to understand what they're being used for.
• 45:04
  And that way we can build our logging around, you know,
• 45:08
  knowing that we can build our life cycle processes around, you
• 45:12
  know, making sure that that account is created properly and
• 45:16
  reviewed periodically and destroyed.
• 45:19
  So I I kind of feel like the rules of Rd. are kind of the
• 45:23
  same. You know, in terms of you've got
• 45:27
  to understand what these accounts are intended to do, use
• 45:31
  least privileged in terms of, you know, either creating them
• 45:37
  or allowing them to be created. And then in the long run, you
• 45:43
  have to monitor what's being done with them.
• 45:46
  I think I don't know if I have anything better to add to that
• 45:50
  other than listen to Jim's answer and then go back and
• 45:52
  listen to I think it was episode 239.
• 45:54
  It was the first one that we did.
• 45:56
  With the authenticate kind of slew of episodes that we threw
• 45:59
  out there. So yeah, that's probable.
• 46:02
  I guess I'll leave it there for that one.
• 46:04
  Why don't we go ahead and start to wrap things up.
• 46:08
  And I was thinking about how we want to end on a lighter note
• 46:11
  today. And I'm drawing on my experience
• 46:13
  of yesterday, which was a Saturday and heading up into the
• 46:17
  Blue Ridge Mountains. Very faint cell phone service
• 46:21
  where we were in the middle of nowhere, basically at a friend's
• 46:25
  kind of. Barbecue, hang out, campfire
• 46:29
  something or other or whatever you want to call it and you
• 46:32
  know, a bunch of people just hanging around playing games and
• 46:34
  eating food and just talking and chatting and sitting enjoying
• 46:37
  the the great weather that it was.
• 46:39
  What is your favorite backyard BBQ party game?
• 46:43
  I've got one answer in three different parts, of course.
• 46:48
  So well, my OG original, I think OG stands for Rich from
• 46:54
  gangster, right? Yes, straight from the hood.
• 46:57
  Yeah, Mike, that's Jimmy Mack straight from the hood.
• 46:59
  Jimmy Mack in the hood. Well, my favorite lawn game or
• 47:03
  BBQ game was Jarts. Remember Jarts?
• 47:05
  I definitely remember that. That didn't last very long.
• 47:08
  Didn't they ban that? Well, imagine if one of those
• 47:11
  Jarts landed on your forehead. You'd be DOA man.
• 47:15
  I remember heavy. I was probably like six or
• 47:17
  seven, I think, and we had a we had a set.
• 47:21
  And yeah, that was the first thing you thought I was like,
• 47:22
  all right, how much damage can we do with this thing?
• 47:26
  That was a great game, though, too.
• 47:28
  Like, even if you just played it by the rules, like, let's be
• 47:31
  hard not to have fun with charts.
• 47:32
  So for people who aren't familiar with charts, explain
• 47:34
  what it is. So they were like like very
• 47:38
  large darts and the ends were, yeah, the points were heavily
• 47:43
  weighted. So you can basically swing them
• 47:46
  to your on the side of your body and like launch them maybe 100
• 47:50
  feet or 50 feet to a target and they would always land heavy
• 47:55
  side like dart point into the ground and they would land and
• 47:59
  they would stick. So that was the game.
• 48:03
  It was essentially like a a bullseye.
• 48:05
  You set up some kind of target on two ends and you have some
• 48:09
  scoring system which I think worked like, you know,
• 48:12
  horseshoes, which is my second answer.
• 48:14
  But it was with these darts and they, I think they somehow were
• 48:18
  banned, they disappeared. Yeah, I think real quickly too,
• 48:22
  because I think it's like, oh, maybe we shouldn't have people
• 48:24
  throwing lawn darts basically into the air and having them
• 48:27
  come down and spiking people and they weren't there.
• 48:31
  It wasn't even a pointy tip, right?
• 48:32
  It was just weighted. But if it if anything falls from
• 48:35
  a high enough distance, it's going to do some damage.
• 48:37
  And yeah, yeah, it was heavy and there wasn't pointed like a
• 48:42
  sharp point, but even that dull point I think would have cracked
• 48:45
  through a skull. Yeah, definitely not safe.
• 48:48
  Yeah, not safe. Anyway, my second one is
• 48:51
  horseshoes and my third one is cornhole, which, I mean,
• 48:54
  everybody plays cornhole now and it's, they're all like tossing
• 48:59
  things, yeah, Which even if you've had a few micro brews,
• 49:03
  it's you're still able to throw things.
• 49:05
  Yeah, maybe not well or accurately, but yeah, I like
• 49:09
  the, I like cornhole. I, you know I have a couple.
• 49:11
  So cornhole, we definitely did that yesterday.
• 49:15
  We did the other thing that I'd like to do, and this is
• 49:18
  something my wife's family introduces, Bocci, so Oh yeah.
• 49:22
  Super easy. People can, Kind of.
• 49:24
  Of all ages and skill ranges can play and we have like a a
• 49:27
  Christmas tradition when we can make it out there to have a
• 49:32
  Christmas Bocci game in the backyard and it's if and usually
• 49:36
  it's in Chicago which means it's like you know less than 0
• 49:38
  degrees freezing and no one is dressed for the occasion
• 49:42
  typically and we're out freezing in someone's backyard in the
• 49:44
  dark trying to play Bocci and a lot of good memories kind of
• 49:50
  around that. So I think that's probably my
• 49:51
  favorite one. But yesterday Jim, I did
• 49:55
  something that I am proud slash saddened to tell you that I won
• 50:01
  a particular game and I'll I'll give you one one guess but I'm
• 50:06
  I'm sure you won't guess it. What is the game you think it
• 50:09
  was shooting? Arrows.
• 50:12
  Prouds at a OK. How about it?
• 50:15
  No. Is that it?
• 50:17
  I'll tell you it was food related.
• 50:18
  Oh, hot dog eating contest. No, I definitely wouldn't win
• 50:21
  that, although I look like I would.
• 50:23
  I we did a doughnut eating contest.
• 50:27
  Now, I have never done this before, but it was not like
• 50:30
  consume as many doughnuts as you can.
• 50:33
  It wasn't. That was not the contest.
• 50:36
  So what we did is we took doughnut rings basically and ran
• 50:40
  a string through them. And then who could eat the
• 50:43
  doughnut fastest off of the string without using their
• 50:47
  hands? And the doughnut could not hit
• 50:50
  the ground. So there's some strategy there,
• 50:52
  right where you've got a string running through a doughnut in
• 50:54
  the doughnut hole and people are trying to eat it and the string
• 50:58
  is moving because everybody is trying to eat it at the same
• 51:00
  time. And I am proud slash sad to
• 51:05
  report to you that I won, You won.
• 51:08
  I was not the fastest, but I was the most strategic.
• 51:10
  I went slow, methodical. And people who were very close
• 51:14
  to the end, they were about to win.
• 51:16
  And then the doughnut fell on the ground.
• 51:18
  So it was very hairy there. At the last few seconds, as I
• 51:22
  kind of took the last big bite, I had to do the lean back and
• 51:26
  try and make sure that nothing fell.
• 51:29
  But yeah, my proudest, it was just one doughnut.
• 51:33
  That was it. Just one doughnut.
• 51:34
  It was a glazed doughnut. They had a vanilla frosting on
• 51:37
  it, but that was it. There was like six of us in a
• 51:38
  row and we were all trying to. You know, eat the doughnut on
• 51:43
  the string without letting it hit the ground.
• 51:46
  Well, congratulations. I'm proud of you.
• 51:49
  Send help. I don't know.
• 51:50
  This is my proudest moment. This is my proudest moment of
• 51:52
  you, Jeff. This.
• 51:53
  Is a. This is a real.
• 51:54
  This is a real highlight hearing a second hand story about your
• 51:58
  donut eating contest. Yeah, and I love doughnuts.
• 52:01
  Yeah, I certainly. You don't need to put a string
• 52:03
  through it and put me in a contest.
• 52:04
  I will have a doughnut any time of day.
• 52:05
  But yeah, I don't know if I should be proud or sad of it.
• 52:08
  I think my wife was both as well.
• 52:10
  Honorable mention to the Dizzy Bat race.
• 52:14
  OK, yeah, Dizzy. We did like the ping, the ping,
• 52:16
  the tail on the donkey type thing.
• 52:17
  So it was someone's birthday party.
• 52:19
  So yeah, we did that as well. And yeah, Sasha, you had a great
• 52:23
  time. It was a good time.
• 52:24
  We're out. I mean, you know, out in the
• 52:25
  literally the middle of like nowhere probably, you know, Blue
• 52:29
  Ridge Mountains for sure, you know, barely any cell signal.
• 52:32
  And yeah, it was fun. It was good times, you know,
• 52:34
  kind of relaxing and stuff like that, so.
• 52:37
  But now I'm off to the airport for another week filled of
• 52:40
  travel and identity hijinks and then I'll be back later.
• 52:45
  So say hi to the people at the Delta Club for.
• 52:48
  Me. Yeah, I definitely will.
• 52:50
  All right, let's go and wrap it up for this week.
• 52:53
  Listen to the show, like subscribe, share with your
• 52:56
  friends. That's how we motivates us to
• 53:00
  keep going. We'd probably be doing it if no
• 53:02
  one was listening, but we've definitely seen a large growth
• 53:04
  in listenership and. Definitely thank everyone out
• 53:06
  there for for sharing the word. We're on the web.
• 53:09
  And Jeff, can I throw one thing in there?
• 53:10
  Absolutely. If people like the show, even if
• 53:14
  they don't get the show from YouTube, if you could go out
• 53:17
  next time you're in YouTube, look us up and subscribe.
• 53:21
  That way we can start to see that subscriber number grow.
• 53:25
  That would be fantastic, yeah. So go to the website
• 53:27
  idacpodcast.com. In the upper right there'll be a
• 53:29
  link to the YouTube channel. Go over there, start
• 53:32
  subscribing. I only do 3 uploads a day, so
• 53:35
  we're not spanning people's YouTube feeds.
• 53:37
  And eventually it'll catch up with where we're at in real
• 53:40
  time. And then you'll expect to see
• 53:42
  podcast there as well, just like we do all the time.
• 53:45
  We're on Twitter, X whatever at IDAC Podcast Mastodon at IDAC
• 53:50
  Podcast at Infosec dot Exchange, and of course Jim and I.
• 53:54
  You're on LinkedIn. We also have the LinkedIn page
• 53:55
  that I started recently starting to see, starting to tag that and
• 53:58
  all the announcements for the show and stuff like that to try
• 54:00
  and make it easy for people. Not sure how we'll kind of
• 54:02
  leverage it yet, but I figured, you know, after 200 and some
• 54:06
  episodes, it just posts all the same things that you and I post.
• 54:10
  Yeah, exactly. And yeah, so definitely reach
• 54:14
  out, thanks to the listeners who sent in their questions.
• 54:17
  If we didn't get to them this time, we save them up every so
• 54:19
  often and we kind of dress them as much as we can and when we
• 54:22
  can. But feel free to send those in.
• 54:24
  And yeah, thanks everybody for listening and we'll talk with
• 54:27
  everybody in the next one. You've been listening to
• 54:31
  Identity at the center. We hope you've enjoyed the show.
• 54:35
  Make sure to like, rate and review.
• 54:38
  And we'll be back soon. But in the meantime, hit the
• 54:41
  website at identity@thecenter.com and find
• 54:45
  us on Twitter at IDAC Podcast. See you next time on Identity at
• 54:53
  the Center.