Latest / The Birth Lounge Podcast / Ep. 453: Elimination Communication Explained: Potty Cues, Diaper-Free Babies & EC Tips w/ Andrea Olson

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Ep. 453: Elimination Communication Explained: Potty Cues, Diaper-Free Babies & EC Tips w/ Andrea Olson · The Birth Lounge Podcast

Can you imagine cavemen would have died out? There would have been disease and if babies were just born incontinent and they're just pooping and peeing wherever without any communication with the caregiver, we, we would be extinct.
We wouldn't be where we are today.
All mammals do this.
Hello, and welcome back to another episode of The Birth Lounge Podcast.
Let me ask you something.
Have you gotten your hands on my free download of my non-toxic baby registry list? It's all of the things that I put on my personal baby registry, and I spent hours, like 60-plus hours, exploring, researching, deep diving, rabbit holing into every single thing that went on this baby list.
I was really intentional about everything that I put on.
Number one, I didn't want to just get a bunch of stuff because I personally believe that, you know, I don't necessarily identify as a minimalist, but I also do believe that babies come with a lot of things.
And people love to just gift you stuff when you have a baby.
However, I didn't really want my house to be filled with just a bunch of stuff, so I was very intentional about the things that I put on there.
And if there were tools and gear and things that could have a multipurpose in our home, then I went with that.
Number two, and probably even more important, is I was incredibly diligent about the toxic load of each product, and that's why it took me so long.
That's why I spent 60-plus hours exploring every single product.
And when I say every single product, it wasn't just the products that are on there, it was so many brands of that same product.
So I'm talking car seats, strollers, bottles, bottle washers, swaddles, sheets, baby washcloths, baby baths, all the things that you need or that make life easier when you have a baby.
But I didn't want a lot of forever chemicals and microplastics.
And if you don't know anything about silicone, the US standard of silicone doesn't even meet the silicone requirements for pig troughs in Europe.
Yeah, you heard me right.
I'll say it one more time because it's absolutely sickening.
The silicone that we use in the US that passes US standard does not even pass the standards to be used for farm animal feeding troughs in Europe Sick.
So I just wanted to make sure that not only was I investing in quality products, I was only getting the gear and the tools that I truly needed, but also I was reducing my family's toxic load at the same time.
Because our little ones are so sensitive and their little bodies are just learning to be on the outside, and so I wanted to make sure that everything that my baby came in contact with was the lowest toxic load as possible.
So head to thebirthlounge.com
and you can find my baby registry at thebirthlounge.com\registry.
So you're just gonna type in thebirthlounge.com\registry,
and you will be able to download my full list of everything that I registered for, and I put little blurbs about why I chose that product and what made me go with that exact brand because it was low tox and a good investment Hello, and welcome back to another episode of The Birth Lounge Podcast.
You guys, oh my gosh.
You know one thing that I absolutely love doing is sharing what works for me as a mom, and as a new parent, and as someone who has just had a baby, with you so that you know, well, you know your options, right? Just because other people don't do it this way doesn't mean that it isn't an option for you or that it's bad.
And sometimes even these things that I'm doing might have a little bit of a taboo attached to them.
Well, today's topic, we are talking about elimination communication, which I feel like a lot of people kind of snub their nose to it for whatever reason.
Maybe you feel like it's too daunting.
Maybe you feel like it's inconvenient.
Maybe you haven't truly bought into the idea that your baby is capable of going to the potty starting at, well, birth, really.
If you follow me on Instagram, then you have followed along with my own journey with elimination communication, and I started to put Saggy Boy on the potty starting at around eight or nine weeks, and I took you along for the journey.
For every catch, I was showing you how easy it was.
I was telling you how many less diapers we were using every day.
And one of the things that I didn't realize that it was doing for me, but my followers let me know, is that it made me more confident as a mom.
Being able to celebrate these tiny wins of catching the pees and poops really did instill a confidence in me of like, "Wow, okay, I do know what I'm doing, and my baby is capable of this."
Now, I'm no expert in elimination communication, so obviously I am bringing on an expert to talk to you all about it.
I'm so excited to be sitting down with Andrea Olson, who is the author of Go Diaper Free and The Tiny Potty Training Book.
Andrea is a world-leading educator on EC, or elimination communication, and she's a mom of six who has EC'd all of her children.
Also, she has helped over one million families tune into their baby's cues and ditch diapers earlier than they ever thought was possible.
In today's episode, we're gonna talk about the money that you can save by doing EC, how to tell when your baby is ready to go to the potty, how you can restore gentle, intuitive potty wisdom, and what tools you might need on this journey.
And wait, wait, wait, before you roll your eyes and you say things like, "Well, I just can't stay home connected to the toilet," or, "I'm sending my baby to daycare, so this just isn't gonna work," or, "Well, I have multiple children, so how would that ever be feasible for me?" Stay tuned, because I'm gonna ask Andrea all those hard questions, too, and believe it or not, she's going to let you know that it actually may be easier for you in those situations.
Elimination communication is not some hippie woo-woo idea.
Believe it or not, it is something that we originated from.
It's how we've always done it before Big Diaper got involved.
You've heard of Big Pharma, you've heard of Big Food, maybe even Big Education.
Today, we're diving into how Big Diaper pushed an agenda to get moms to put their babies in plastic disposable diapers and how this has pushed back the age of potty training from 18 months to over three years old.
Buckle up, because today's conversation is going to blow your mind.
Without further ado, Andrea, welcome to the show.
Thank you.
I am so excited to have you.
I was sharing with my audience before we hopped on that I have been doing EC with Saggy Boy, and it has been such a fun experience.
It was something that I had dabbled in as a doula or as an early childhood educator, but only because parents had asked me to do it, not because I had ever looked into it myself, and I certainly never once thought I would do it with my own baby.
But then something in pregnancy just changed me, and I was like, "You know what? I think I do want to do EC.
I think I do want to just tap in and tune into what my baby needs and see if I can have them potty trained by about one year."
Now, I've been very open about this online.
Saggy Boy had surgery for a congenital thing that happened at birth or that he was born with, uh, at around four months.
And so we've taken the last month or so off from EC, but I'm very excited to get back to it.
And so I think today I'd love to spend time talking about what is EC, how do you do it, how did it come about, and why aren't more parents doing it? Plus, I'd love to talk about how can you do it casually, because the one thing that I continue to hear is, "I just can't stay home all day and just, like, be within a few feet of a toilet."
And I try so hard to remind people, like, "That's not what your life has to look like."
Um- Mm-hmm but I, I think people just have a hard time conceptualizing what elimination communication may look like in real time, in real life.
What can you actually do every day without being connected and chained to a toilet? So, I wanna dive into all that, and before we do- can you please explain to us, let's just start at the very basics, what is elimination communication on the most basic terms? Absolutely.
And, um, by the end of this show, I know for a fact a lot of people listening are gonna be like, "Oh, that's not that complicated."
So They're gonna be ditching those diapers.
Yeah, yeah.
They'll be like, "Oh, we're well on our way."
And I've got you.
I've got all the rest of the details.
We'll cover the things but you'll, you're gonna wanna n- you're gonna wanna know more if this is you.
Elimination communication, we call it EC for short.
Some people call it infant potty training, but it's not potty training.
Um, you're basically going along with the way babies are designed.
So their developmental their instincts, their hormones, their developmental path, the way that they go through babyhood and toddlerhood in the most natural way possible.
They- They have the same hormones that we have that keep us clean and dry when we're sleeping.
So we work alongside that design and kind of line up with it.
They're, they're born signaling, you know, the babies cry for what they need.
All the cries sound the same in the beginning, but you'll soon start to see, and I'll tell you some tips in the show that some of the cries actually mean I'm uncomfortable and I don't want to go to the bathroom in my diaper.
And once you know that and you actually get it correct one time and you like correctly understand that and you respond appropriately, like the way if the world is perfect and you just like did it, we call it that first catch high.
You're just like, oh my gosh, I can't unknow this and now I need to, I need to like figure out how, how can we sync up better? Um, babies are very forgiving.
Obviously they, they just, they try, we try, we work together as much as we can.
But this is one of their basic needs that they're born with and born communicating.
Um, we've just completely lost touch with, uh, that language and really that this is actually part of their natural development.
And we instead have been taught by the diaper companies who influence, uh, sorry, the, well, the pediatrician who di- we'll talk about this.
Um, but basically there is, um, there is a specific time, a point in history when everything shifted and it is when the disposable diapers were invented and heavily marketed.
And now we've lost touch with that.
But before that time, um, in 1957, 92% of babies in the United States were potty trained, like completely done by 18 months.
So elimination communication is a form of what they did back then.
When a baby like starts to bear down, like they're gonna poop, our grandparents and great-grandparents just were like, "Hey, wait, because we don't really want to clean that up," you know? So that's part of any kind of communication about pee and poop and about that discomfort and them really wanting to go somewhere hygienic, which is like how we're set up.
Can you imagine cavemen would have died out? Like there would have been disease and just if babies were just born incontinent and they're just pooping and peeing wherever without any communication with the caregiver, we, we would be extinct.
Like it wouldn't, we wouldn't be where we are today.
All mammals do this.
So with EC and the way I teach it, and we'll talk about like how to do it really low bar, but it's basically you're responding to a need, um, that the baby's expressing or naturally has, and you're just doing your best to kind of sync up and, uh, until the time when they can do it themselves, and then you kind of pass the baton and they start to do it themselves.
So we really don't need potty training most of the time.
Um, I have six kids and I haven't had to potty train any of them.
And then I have people in the community who wrap up EC with potty training, so it, and it becomes a joy.
It's like a joyful exper- They're like, "That was blissful."
And who talks about potty training like that? It's not blissful.
But, um, for my people it is.
And anyway, we're just, you feed your baby, you keep them warm, you give them love, uh, you help them sleep so they're not crazy, like, wired, and you help to keep them comfortable, and this is a part of that whole holistic baby care that we've forgotten.
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
Okay, so people think I'm cuckoo bananas when I talk about your baby has different cries, and as a first-time parent, it's really, really challenging to be able to decipher the different cries.
And I'm not gonna make light of that.
I know that if you are in the trenches right now and you're like, "They all sound the same," I, I do hear you.
Yeah.
They really do in the beginning, okay? But as your baby grows and as you learn that little new human, they are going to start to sound different.
And so I can tell you wholeheartedly, Saggy sounds different when he is ready to go to the bathroom.
Now, I don't always catch it, but that first catch high that you talk about, okay, you wanna talk about cuckoo bananas? Every catch that I get, I feel like a superwoman.
I'm like, "Oh my God, Saggy, we did it.
Like, we did it again."
Yeah.
And I'm the person that has a million poop pictures on my phone because I want to capture it.
I'm like, "Oh, God, I have to take a picture.
Like, we did it.
We caught this poop," and it's so cool.
Like, it is just, yeah, it's a high.
It's just, I don't know, it feels so instinctual, biology, biological.
It, it feels like, I don't know, almost like you're, you're meant to do this.
I, I'm struggling to, like, put it into words of how instinctual it feels.
It feels like a true motherhood win on a cellular level.
Much different than like, "Oh, you pooped.
Let's go change your diaper."
Um, and look, we still use disposable diapers in our family when we travel.
Um, I'm still very nervous to be on a plane and miss a catch.
I mean, that would just be a disaster for me and my anxiety.
I mean, I would just be, like, a total mess.
So we still use disposable diapers, but EC at home is, has just been so much fun, and it fits into our lifestyle.
Um, and so for anyone out there who is like, "You know, these two are nutso-" Maybe.
We might be, but when you give it a chance and you feel that high, you're gonna be like, "Wow, I too am nutso."
And so, well- Yeah, and I think what you're talk- I think what you're talking about is attunement.
So- Yeah and you feel, it build, this builds confidence, and it takes something off of your plate so you don't have to clean up a blow o- a blowout on your entire baby's body.
I've had to do that once.
We were at Biltmore House, I live in Asheville, and there are no bathrooms there, and it's a two-hour tour.
And so I ignored a signal and didn't run off to, you know, with my top hat potty and, and potty her, and she needed an entire outfit change, and I was not prepared, 'cause I literally, she was my second, but I've had six.
I've had to change this many di- poopy diapers with each child.
So, like, I'm holding up 10 fingers, you guys.
Or, n- 10.
I've got 10.
I, I really, no more than that because it's so easy to poop-train a baby because they're literally born with sphincter control and wanting to stay clean.
Like, who wants to poop themselves? Nobody.
Even the senile grandpa does not wanna poop himself.
Everybody wants cleanliness.
We all do.
And I think it's attunement that we were talking, is, like, do you get me? Yes, I get you.
And that actually builds secure attachment from the very beginning, and, and that's all the rage right now.
We need securely attached children.
Well, instead of just picking some of the things and just, like, doing the bare minimum, a mother is built, and even a father is built, to want to respond appropriately.
So when we do it, we're like, "Heck yeah, I'm the best mom in the world."
You give yourself a pat on the back.
And it builds confidence.
Like, if you don't know what you're doing as a new mom but you catch a pee in the potty, you're just like, "Whoa, I'm automatically 10 times better as a mom than I was an hour ago."
You know? Yeah.
You know- It's great you get that soundbite where you're like, "Am I better than everyone?" That plays in my head every time I catch, uh, a pee or a poop.
I'm like, "Am I the best mother in the world?" Yeah.
Like, maybe.
It's- And it's a thankless job, so honestly, you kinda need that feedback from yourself.
If you're like, oh, wait, I think that too.
Don't feel bad about it.
We need that.
And you're already in the bathroom, so just, like, look over to the mirror and be like, "Wow, you are such a badass."
You're amazing.
And you're You're amazing.
Yeah.
Look at you.
You, like, look great doing it, too.
With your top bun, a boob hanging out, in a robe.
Like, yeah, no, really.
Milk stains on your shirt.
Exactly.
You look great.
You're looking amazing, Mama.
Um, okay.
I wanna go back to something that you said about, you know, in 1957, 92% of children were potty-trained by 18 months, and that means completely done.
For a lot of people out there, that sounds crazy because at 18 months, for a lot of people, they're just starting this conversation, or maybe, you know, for- I hear it a lot, and I heard it a lot when I was in early childhood, boys potty train later.
So even at 18 months, you may have some families of boys who aren't even having this conversation because someone in their life, whether it be a mother, a mother-in-law, a nanny, a pediatrician, a community member, a neighbor, just some old lady at the grocery store, has convinced them that their boy is gonna potty train later in life, meaning at two or three years old.
Talk to us about how did we get here? How did this timeline get pushed back so far that we're now into our three years old, like three years old before we start to potty train our children? That seems crazy to me.
It is crazy, and it's marketing, and if we follow the money, it's exactly what it is.
It's not...
They'll want us to think it's a conspiracy theory and whatever, but like what did everybody do before diapers? Cloth diapers have only been commercially available for 200 years.
So what did people do before diapers? And again, we didn't die out as a species.
We weren't just doing this everywhere.
It was, it was a point-and-shoot situation.
It was a, we...
and it was als- also, like, kids can crawl and walk outside, and they would go outside.
So there's, there's a lot of history, um, you know, my book, Go Diaper Free, covers exactly how to do this because I'm a how-to kind of person.
Like, don't give me the fluff.
I want bullet points.
I want to see pictures.
I want to know how to do.
I want videos, you know? And when I had my first baby, I didn't have that, so, Infant Potty Training by Lori Bouquet, she went through microfiche, if you remember what that is, and she went through and looked up all of the anthropological, historical, and then at that time present day, um, information around the world about how they did this with their babies.
So, like, this is what people have done for all of human history, and there's lots of examples in there if you doubt it.
But okay, so what happened, um, there's a guy here in Asheville, and I'm not allowed to share his name 'cause he's still a stockholder, and he's like, "I'm not ruining that," but he was a big-time executive for Pampers Institute.
Like, he holds some patents for some of those things.
Uh, which by the way, diapers were only ever meant to be a backup, and when we do EC, they are a backup.
They're not a toilet.
But the diaper companies made them into toilets.
So how did they do this? Well, he told me that at first, parents didn't wanna put their kids in paper and plastic.
They didn't want to have their kids out of cloth di- they wanted to use cloth diapers.
Moms, mostly stay-at-home moms is, was, you know, this was pre-feminism.
It was like We don't want to put our baby's skin in that.
So they had a really hard time selling disposable diapers in the beginning.
So they hired a guy named P.
Barry Brazelton.
He did a scientific study, and I'm doing air quotes for those of you not watching.
Air quotes because it was not...
You can read it, pull it up online.
It is so unscientific.
It's like this whole study, and then he, like, makes this deduction that has nothing to do with the study at all, that parents should wait till their child says they're ready to potty train or we're gonna psychologically damage them, which is crazy.
So let's add everything up that I just said.
That means every child of all of human history has been psychologically damaged because they didn't, um, tell their parent they were ready for potty training.
At basically, like, two years old is when they were encouraging, "Wait till two," and then it became, "Wait till three," and then it became, "Just wait till they tell you.
It doesn't matter what age it is," which could be five.
So our average age today is three years old.
When he put out that study, it really started to guilt parents into, like, not pressuring their child, and, uh, my mom told me that there was a huge pressure on them at that time to potty train by two, so there were these, like, conflicting things going on.
But the diaper companies then started to inform the medical texts.
So the medical texts say we don't have sphincter control until 18 months old, so we can't start potty training till then.
Well, I have over a million families that have helped do EC over the last 15 years who say otherwise.
Your baby is born with sphincter control, you guys.
You...
they are.
When they poop and you catch when it...
Okay, when they start pooping and you say, "Wait," they will wait.
You take off their diaper, you hold them over something, make a gentle grunt, and guess what? They'll start pooping.
The very next time, they will hold it.
They will look to you.
They will fuss.
They'll try to get your attention.
It is so easy to potty train because they're like, "Ugh, you finally get me.
I don't wanna do this on myself."
So anyway, science, and then they informed the pediatricians, and then the pediatricians now, like you said, they don't really mention potty training till the second-year checkup.
So we're not even starting until they're getting into the stage where I wouldn't want to teach my child how to do anything because they're gonna say no and just wait.
It's great.
It's developmentally, like, they're finding themselves, and they're asserting their independence, and it is what they need to do at that time.
But it is so hard to, like...
For example, this morning, my whole morning routine took, like, an hour and a half.
It should've taken 15 minutes because my three-year-old wanted to do everything herself and her way and the opposite of what I wanted.
So, like, we're- We are unfortunately telling parents to wait till two and three when it is gonna be so hard to do this, and mind you, they've already been acclimated to diapers as their toilet.
We have shushed them and soothed them into going on themselves where they have given up, and I know that sounds sad, and I'm not blaming parents, but, like, they gave up trying to tell us what they wanted and then just surrendered to, "Okay, I guess I'll use this thing," and now they're attached to that thing, and now we have to potty train them out of it.
So the diaper company has now gone into stages instead of ages, so they're doing pull-ups.
You've got kids in diapers till five and six years old, and it does...
It's just the bottom line, but they don't biodegrade, and they don't help your baby's skin, and they...
I can't imagine the long-term effects of what we're doing as a society because a multi-billion dollar corporation told us to in a very not cool way.
Like, I'm kinda mad.
Like, why did they trick us like this just to sell more product? And when, uh, the last thing I'll say about that is when I told this guy here in Asheville about EC and about what we do and about what people used to do, he was like, "Whoa."
And he took a week, and we came back and talked again, and he goes, "I just feel like we've taken it too far."
And I'm like, "Yeah, you have."
And he said, "But I'm a stockholder," "so good luck."
You know? Like, I just...
It's not a conspiracy.
It's just that is the exact path that we took, and now we've got a doubling and tripling of the age, and the children are still just as capable at 12 to 18 months.
Oh, gosh, I'm so...
I'm talking so much and I'm not, not even...
But I have one more thing.
Montessori's window for the sensitive period for toilet training is actually 12 to 18 months too.
So Montessori was early 1900s, so you guys, if you're in a Montessori, that's the period in which the child is a sponge for this developmental task.
That is their work.
Um, so we are, we're kind of stuck in that awakening moment of, oh, wait, what...
Where did, where, where did we go wrong, and what is actually good for us and our kids and the environment? I will pause there.
I could talk about this for 15 hours in, in a row.
Like, I can't...
I mean, I could honestly listen to you for 15 hours in a row- to be completely honest.
So it's really funny to hear you talk about Montessori.
Um, so when I was in early childhood the facilities that I worked at were either Reggio or Montessori-based, right? And so I think that that's why I had this early exposure.
I think the parents that I was serving as their teacher, they were in tune to these things.
They were already in this mindset of how do I Kind of capitalize on that attunement that you talked about, how do I set up good, secure attachment with my child? How do I tap into the communication that my baby is giving me? And I feel very grateful and lucky that I did have that early exposure so that I knew about it when I had my own baby.
I want to circle back to that big diaper agenda.
Do you think that, of course part of it is money, right? If we follow the money of anywhere in this country, it typically leads not great places.
Um, it's always devastating when you follow the money.
But do you think that part of their agenda too, in addition to their bottom line, was to maybe get women out of the house and into the workforce? Because those timelines kind of align to the time where women were really being sold this idea of empowerment, and I think, you know, there's obviously two camps of that.
What does empowerment mean to you? And I obviously support moms, whatever you want to do, but I do believe that a lot of moms maybe don't want to be outside of the home and they would rather be in the home, but they feel as if they can't, or they feel as if maybe that's not empowerment.
If they stay home with their babies, are they giving up something? Are they not being empowered? Are they not being a good role model for their children by staying home and showing them that women can be outside of the workplace, or being outside of the home in the workplace? I think there's a lot to be said about that, too.
I mean, we could do a whole podcast on that.
But do you think that part of this big diaper agenda was to pull women out of the home, encourage them to be in the workforce, and that way it forced children to be in diapers longer because nobody was at home, you know, doing EC, paying attention to this communication? And now we are, we having children in childcare and there's just no way that one teacher, and I say this from experience, can pay attention to eight, nine, 12 children and do EC with a whole classroom.
It would be nearly impossible.
Right.
But they used to potty train our kids for us in the '80s and the '90s.
It's crazy.
Old school, you mean.
Uh, daycares and stuff, yeah.
Yeah.
So okay I don't know which came first, the chicken or the egg.
Yeah.
I do think from, because I'm a business-minded person, I think that there is a huge correlation.
I think that the diaper companies were very well aware of the feminist movement and getting women out into the workplace, because that's creating more consumers, and that's creating more money to spend on their products and all of that.
So, like, there's movements in our society right now that companies are capitalizing on.
Whatever the trend is on social media, they're jumping on it.
So I kind of think it could've been both, but I kind of think- that the diaper companies were capitalizing on the feminist movement of getting women empowered and out of the house, that kind of empowerment.
I think that they saw the trends happening and wanted to do women a favor.
And actually, the guy here in Asheville who worked for Pampers kind of referred to that.
Women wanted that.
So you look at the pain points of your audience, your customers, and you want to speak to them in that language, right, as a marketer.
So they did genius marketing.
They're speaking to the pain point of women are not gonna settle with having to stay home or having to choose between family and workplace.
They wanna do it all, and we're gonna help empower them to do it all.
And this tool, all the washing machine, detergent, which they were also in on um, the, the, the diapers, allowing them to be freed from all this housework.
But also you look at, it's Procter Gamble and other companies, like you look at their whole product line and you've got this huge surge of products that support making this housewife's life easier, and then also really freeing them up.
So I kind of, I kind of lean towards them, them capitalizing on the social movement that was happening already.
Mm.
But at the same time it fed into it.
So it really allowed women to stop doing endless laundry at home, to step out from the house, to feel like they have to choose.
Which, you know, I work three hours a day, and I also, I teach mompreneurs as well as another part of my business.
But, like, it is so hard to feel that drive to actually want to have a business, and then also the drive to be a mother, and how do you balance and do both.
And I know that you probably also struggle with that.
It's like some women are just built for all of it, and some women are like, "I am so the..."
My best friend, "I am so the housewife.
I never wanna work a day in my life.
This is my work, you know? I don't know what I'm gonna do when my kids leave the house."
So I feel like we're all made a little bit differently, and they totally...
It's like capitalizing on it or taking advantage of it.
Choose your term there, you know? Like, it could be either phrase.
But really expert marketers look at what are your audience members struggling with, and how do I show my product as a way to solve that problem.
And I think it fed into each other.
It's like the Ouroboros.
Is that right? The snake that's swallowing the tail.
Who knows? But it wasn't good for us.
I don't think, I don't think...
But we were so, we were so, uh, vulnerable to it.
You know, like my mom to this day swears by Crisco, and I'm like, "Mom, Crisco is so bad for you.
That will kill you."
She's like, "But I'm..."
And Velveeta.
And I'm like, "Mom, that's not even real cheese."
But they were, they grew up in this era, you know, she's 72.
They grew up in this era where you are brand loyal and where companies capitalized on that.
So I think that's where my struggle comes in is, you know- Today there, in my opinion, are two types of businesses.
There are businesses like Pampers, big pharma, that do capitalize and take advantage of vulnerable people in a time where they are eager for information, they're eager for help, right? These housewives, they wanted to make their lives easier.
Mm-hmm.
They wanted the tools to be able to be a good housewife and also leave the home and be able to have a career of their own, and that is not their fault, right? I'm in that place right now.
I love being a mom.
I could very easily walk away from my business, but when I think about doing that, there is a hole that's left in me.
I love my business.
I love being able to serve moms.
I love, love, love being able to educate people on how to have trauma-free births.
I love being able to teach people, how do you go into the hospital and you have respectful conversations with your doctor? How do you have the birth of your dreams within a system that is not built for us? And then further than that, how do we change the system? This system is outdated.
It's not meant for us.
We have got to rewrite it, and we're doing that.
Women are doing that.
Yeah.
If I stepped away from that, I would be fulfilled being a mom.
I love being a mom.
I cannot wait to have more children, but I also love being a businesswoman.
And then on the other end of that spectrum from the businesses that take advantage of people, I think you have businesses like you and I, right, where we genuinely have good resources that will help you, and we're not taking advantage of you.
But we also are not marketing to people in a sleazy, slimy way.
We are not sitting down at a big round table to say, "Okay, well, here's their pain point.
How do we market to them in a way that they want this?" We just put out our resources, and we say, "If this is you, I have the answers for you.
If this is where you're at, here is something that might help you on your journey."
And so for me, I get really angry at the big industries, big pharma, big food, big education, because I feel like they take advantage of people in a way that they don't have to.
You could have just said, "If you want to be out of the home and your child is not quite potty-trained yet, here's a diaper that you could try out."
But instead, their marketing was slimy, right? It, it's like they, they set out to push it back and back and back, and they said, "Okay, well, if we can get six more months out of this family, then our ROI goes up this mon- this much.
And then if we can get this mom into the workforce sooner, then our ROI will increase this much."
And I genuinely hate that so much.
It just- Yeah, it's manipulative.
It's 'cause it's manipulative.
Totally.
Yeah.
They, they...
It's coercive and manipulative, and it's...
And they're not being forthright, and I just can't stand that either.
Like, I want the truth, and I think that women these days are really looking for the truth.
What is the truth? I feel my intuition, my gut is really strong, and I don't feel like this is right.
Mm.
Like, if your, if your s- if your baby's sitting there in a wet diaper and the diaper company tells you they can sit there for 12 hours and be fine, and you don't have to change it for 12 hours, that's what they, that's how they market them, and you feel like that's not quite right, you need to go with your gut.
And I think we're in this huge revolution period right now where women are going, "Wait, that's not right."
Like, for instance, giving birth in the hospital.
You talk about trauma-free births.
I gave birth unassisted three out of my six.
And for those of y'all who...
You guys know what that is, right? The free birth? I did that three times, and it was amazing.
It was 75 minutes, 75 minutes, and then the last one was two and a half hours 'cause she was a full pound heavier than all my other kids and a full inch bigger around her head.
And I was like, "Why is this so hard? But I'm not going to the hospital," 'cause it's during the pandemic and I was like, "I'm not wearing a mask while I'm giving birth.
They will kick me out.
I will revolt."
You know? Like, "I don't belong there."
You're weird.
But I've also given birth, I've given birth at home with a midwife, not unassisted.
Um, and then that I pushed for four hours.
Like, I've had that experience.
That was my first one.
I was like, "I will never do that again."
So, like, we have these experiences that don't align with our intuition, our desires our feeling of like, "This is actually what I feel like it should be," right? Like, and something's really off.
I think your listeners probably are already primed to that.
Like, I want to find out what the truth is for me and what's gonna work for me.
And, like, for birth, I gave birth in the hospital twice 'cause I didn't know I could pop my own bag of waters one time.
I did not know I was fully dilated.
I could've just reached in there and checked.
I probably would've felt her head the second time, or that was the first.
Anyway, so I could have had, could've, would've, should've had five free births.
But I learned each time and I, I kept refining, like, what do I really want my experience to be like? And I kept, you know, like, being open to learning, and I breastfed all of mine.
My sixth one was hard to breastfeed.
I also, I used formula and early food with her because I had, I had already exhausted all of the options of what I ideally wanted.
So, like, we can go back to EC.
It's like ideally you'd b- you'd wanna be the potty rockstar and I got...
I'm not even gonna use diapers, and I'm just gonna do it, and it's gonna be great.
Everybody outta diapers by three months old.
Oh, please don't do that.
Don't try.
It's like the idealism will kill you.
There is no perfection in parenting.
I've learned that.
Like, I get that really strongly.
But I can still Put energy and effort into the things that are gonna get an ROI, or they're gonna get a return.
And the return for me is that attunement.
My therapist told me this, attunement and repair.
That is all we need to do as parents, attune and repair.
We're gonna screw up.
We need to repair.
We're gonna apologize.
We are going to course correct, and we need to attune.
We need to try to figure out what they're wanting and do our best to give it.
So, like, we can talk about part-time EC.
That's what most people do.
It all...
It's an exposure technique.
Like, it's, it's just, if you are trying, you are gonna get a better result than if you know this stuff and are just like, "I'm not gonna do it," which is fine.
It's also your choice.
Um, we can early potty train.
If you don't wanna do EC, that's fine.
Come back at 18 months.
I've got a potty training book.
You'll be done in seven days or less.
It's pretty easy.
It works for everybody.
But, like, oh, man.
Okay, and then back to one other thing too is, like, I feel like there's a difference between marketers and then servant leaders, and I feel like you and I are servant leaders.
Like, we're in service of our community.
Mm-hmm.
And we are leaders in that we're saying, "I figured something out, and I really wanna share it with y'all.
If you want the same things that I've gotten from this, here.
And this is good information."
And then you've got marketers, who are scheming and manipulative and gaslighting and all the bad things.
And I don't think all corporations are bad.
I just feel like we're missing servant leaders at the helm of these corporations.
And good for y'all for being...
You know, wising up to that and questioning the narrative.
I think that that's something as women especially we should be doing.
If it doesn't feel right, you gotta question it.
Yeah.
If it doesn't feel right, it probably ain't right, right? It probably ain't right.
Y- your, your intuition as a mom, as a woman- Yeah you don't even have to be a mother- Mm-hmm is so spot on so much of the time.
And I'm not gonna say that we're never wrong.
I've been wrong.
I'm- Same I'm wrong all the time, right? Like- Yeah it's just a human experience.
But if you tap into your intuition and you really allow your intuition to speak for you and your baby, I think that you'll be very surprised.
And you talk about being confident as a mom, there is no other high like knowing something, you don't know why, you can't put your finger on it, you just know, and it turns out that that's right.
I mean, again, cue that soundbite where you're like, "Am I better than everyone else?" Kinda.
Um, and I just...
You know, I, I say this a lot, but I wanna remind you, like, you know your baby best.
You really, really do.
There's nobody else on Earth that knows your baby like you know your baby, and that is just biology.
That's just the way that babies and moms are designed, and it's not a slight to anybody else.
It's not to say that- and your partner is not as good as you, or your, the grandparents in your life don't love your baby as much as you do.
It is just a, a connection that you have with your baby, and I want you to tap into that, you guys.
We've been conditioned to cut that off, to not listen to it, to separate from our babies, put them in a different room for sleeping, you know, feed them this way, hand them off to people during the day.
And a lot of that is the construct of America, right? A lot of that is that we don't have the structures and the supports for families.
But when and where you can, keep your baby close.
Yeah.
If you want to and your intuition is screaming, "I want to keep my baby close," then I think you should lean into that.
Okay.
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Okay, Andrea, you talked about babies are born to potty train at birth, and that they have sphincter control.
I think for a lot of people, they were like, "That literally cannot be true."
Like, that just, that just can't be true.
Tell us what kind of signs we're looking for.
We briefly talked about the fussiness, like if your baby is fussy.
And I know for a lot of people listening, they're like, "Okay, but my baby is fussy- All the time a lot of the time."
Like, they can't just, like, need to poop all the time.
So what specifically are we looking for that might indicate we should go put our baby on the potty? Or I started Saggy over the sink, and then we invested in a little potty.
Yeah.
So yeah, Top Hat Potty, love.
I, I brought those back to market 'cause we couldn't find them anymore.
I was like, "Oh, no."
So we have plenty of those.
That's gonna make it easier just because the baby's so comfortable, and, like, you can hold them under the thighs and, like, they're supported by your, by your torso, even if they don't have neck control.
So that's, like, the way, the point and shoot way.
How to know.
Okay, if you look up Dunstan baby language, there's an interview with her, the woman, and Oprah, you can find on YouTube.
It's very old, and it'll tell you, like, there's four different cries, and I really love that.
The one for discomfort, "I'm uncomfortable," is actually the closest I've found to the cry that means, "I need to go potty."
Okay.
So since most new moms are, like, in that fog and, like, can't do math and um, really can't be on time to anything, and it's just like, "I don't have access to my intuition.
I'm exhausted.
My baby doesn't sleep.
They're fussy all the time."
Like, I've had babies who've cried seven hours out of the 12 hours of being awake, and it's like, it's hard.
Then don't try to rely on your intuition.
I call these, like, anchor points.
There's four easy catches.
So I'll, I'll talk first about signals, then I'm gonna tell you the four easy catches because if you don't get a signal, it doesn't mean your baby's broken, or you're broken, or you just can't figure this out, and you suck.
It means that you, your baby just- Or you.
You guys just might need a different way of doing it.
Um, so and also baby's stop signaling.
So when you start back with EC, oh, you're gonna be like, "Whoa, this is so different from the brand-new newborn stage.
My baby's crawling soon and wanting to roll," and it's just like the wheels kind of fall off, but you just stick with it and with whatever works every day until they master some developmental milestones and then they start to signal again.
But there is a blip where they stop to signal because if we lived in a hut with a mud floor, they would just crawl outside and go outside as soon as they start crawling, so they have no need to signal anymore.
I have lots of podcast episodes on signals, and my book covers it as well.
But okay, so what is a signal? When you have a sudden fuss at...
They're, like, chilling, they're being normal, calm, whatever, and then all of a sudden they get really fussy, especially if you've already fed them and they've already had a nap.
Um, so sudden fussiness is one of the main signals.
Um, I love to use the first fuss after feeding.
That is always a potty signal.
Always.
And it's usually about 10 minutes after.
They signal, and they're like...
You're like, "What? You can't possibly need anything else.
I've just given you everything on the list."
Oh, but they need to potty.
So that's when I would take the diaper off and offer.
The other time is, like, when they wake up.
If your baby wakes up and fusses, there's a hormone that wears off when we wake up, wake up, the antidiuretic hormone, and that wears off with every mammal, including babies, and it, it, our bladder fills and we need to go to the bathroom.
So if they're fussy in the morning when they wake up, you might think, "I'll just stick a boob in your mouth," but also they might need to potty first, and sometimes they might need to potty during, and it becomes this thing of that is also a signal.
Bearing down.
Most of you know when your baby's pooping, and a lot of babies self-poop.
I have a podcast on that, too.
But if you have a very apparent pooper, you're like, "Oh, that's not a smile.
That's a poop face," you can gently say, "Wait," take off the diaper, and then have them finish.
I would do that over the sink, too, until I started solids.
To be honest, even when I was starting solids, I just had some bleach wipes next to the sink and just, like...
It's easier on my back to potty over the sink.
But you could also put a stool in front of the big toilet and hold them over that.
I have all the pictures and stuff in my book, but, and videos to show you how to do it.
But there's, like, a couple of main things is just, like, sudden fussiness.
Oh, if they're in a baby carrier and you're wearing them and they start to arch out, you're like, "Oh, no, did I buy the wrong $500 baby carrier?" And it's not that.
It's actually they need to go and they don't wanna go on you, so they're gonna try to, like, arch out and get really fussy.
If you take them out of that carrier and potty them, you're probably gonna get a catch.
Let's see.
I think those are the main ones.
And then do you mind if I go over the four easy catches? No, please do.
All right.
These are four times if you just wanna, like, dip your little toe into it and see if this works.
One is the wake-ups So when they wake up, even if they're wet, offer.
Just go ps, hold them over something.
Eh, the poops, I already mentioned how to do that.
In and out of something, so if you've got them in the car seat, you take them out of the car seat or the baby carrier, you can offer the potty.
And we call it a pottytunity.
It's just an opportunity.
They don't have to go, but they start to notice that you offer it every time.
Every time I get out of the high chair, she offers me the potty.
They start to sync up.
So it's like, really just pick one and try it for several days and see what happens.
And then what was the other easy catch? Oh, darn.
Oh, diaper changes.
Every time you change their diaper, sometimes you'll change them and they're dry, and you're like, "What the hey? I don't understand."
Like, "What do I do?" Right? "Do I put this back on?" Like, so many people have found me that way.
They're like, "What, what..."
I Google this and what's happening? It's because your baby's waiting for you to take it off.
So offer the potty.
I always have a potty at my changing station, and just offer them then.
And if you offer it every diaper change, they're gonna start waiting and holding it.
Out of all of those, the poops are the easiest.
It is so easy to poop train a child because it's so instinctual.
Right.
Those are the four easy catches.
I...
Like, really, just pick one.
It's so cool.
You'll probably be like, "What?" Or the first fuss after feeding.
Those are, like, key low bar, and if that's all you ever do for a year and a half and then you potty train at 18 months, you've exposed your child to the potty, and it will not be traumatic.
We want trauma-free potty learning, okay? This is, this is literally the way to do it.
You just expose them.
Every wake-up, we do it.
You can do it with daycare.
I've sent all of mine for three hours a day because I need my sanity and my work time.
I need that balance.
I started them at, like, around one.
One of them I started at six months, but, like, they got me the rest of the day, but for three hours, I'd be off.
What did I do during those three hours? I put them in a diaper, and I told them, "You can use your diaper while you're here."
And then, like, I have little courses about daycare, because it's a little bit more nuanced, but my...
The teachers worked with me, and my child, the children, asked for it.
They're like, "I really want to go to the bathroom here at daycare."
You know? So and it's like, there, there are ways to do it, but if any of those sound like, "Oh yeah, that's something I could do, 'cause I'm already taking my kid out of the car seat.
We could do a potty stop, and then they'll be comfortable."
Or, "I'm taking them, I'm about to put them into the high chair.
They always poop in the high chair.
I don't like cleaning that up."
Well, maybe before you put them in the high chair, offer the potty.
You know? So, like, you can pick an anchor point in your day and just do that every day, and it counts, and it helps, and it's awesome, and you're gonna feel like a badass.
You're gonna be like, "I'm the best mom in the world."
Just kidding.
You really will.
You really will.
Not kidding.
Yeah.
I, um, I have chosen a couple of those anchors just, well, I guess I followed your stuff, so I- I was gonna say I just fo- I picked them organically, but I didn't.
I had your education.
So in and out of the carrier is where I do it, and then any time Saggy wakes up from a nap.
I haven't quite taken on after waking up overnight simply because I just haven't stuck it in our routine.
We usually, like, lay in bed.
Okay.
He feels on my face, and I kiss him- Yay tickle him, and we just, we open the windows and let the sun shine, and we sing some songs.
And, you know, it really is, I should wake up, potty him, and then we could get back in bed and do all those things.
I just haven't taken the time to do that.
Um- Or have the potty in your bed.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
We- Just make it part of your little sweet time- Yeah and wake him up for potty, and then you don't have to leave your bed.
Yeah.
That's a good idea, too.
When we are over all of the, the surgery recovery and I'm back doing EC that would be a perfect time to go ahead and introduce that since we're re-introducing EC.
Okay, you've talked about twice, kind of i- in- in passing, noises to pair with EC.
You said grunt a little bit with poop, and do a ss sound with pee.
Tell us about this.
So that builds sound association.
Um, I've had several community members and readers who've told me over the years that their mom in India still does this or China, or Africa, or wherever.
We do observation time.
So with a newborn You can do it without any observation time at all just by doing the four easy catches and you will like sync up, you'll figure out your baby.
You're the expert in your baby even if you feel like you have no clue.
You will learn so much by doing this.
But if you wanna do some observation time, any time they go, and so I have these really soft, nice waterproof pads at Tiny Undies, my other store, which also as a servant leader, I only made all these products because people actually needed them and like we didn't have small underwear so I made Tiny Undies.
Tiny Trainers, we didn't have good training pan- all the training pants leaked.
Like, I made all these products that are like super short mini potty that you can like actually sit a baby on and they can touch the ground, like all these things.
But the waterproof pad, oh, it's luscious, it's beautiful.
You lay your baby on this beautiful pad, and when you notice that they pee, you cue along with them.
Pss, so it's like a PSS, SSS, pss, or the sound of running water.
Some people do shh.
Um, some people click.
Some people do a sign language of T shaking, which is the thumb between the first two fingers and you shake side to side.
So you say pss.
So you're doing this is a sign association and a sound association.
I've had all my babies have signed around eight months they need to go to the bathroom, not consistently, but they do it.
Oh, it's so cool.
So you give your like, you know, banana, you give the sign language for that, or apple but you also say the word.
So with zero to like eight-month babies, we're gonna cue along with them when they go.
So if they're sitting on the potty and going, and you hear them going, you go pss, and you can start to say the word potty, whatever you want them to say to you that they need to go.
So this is extremely nuanced too.
I have podcasts on this as well, like signals, what to do if they don't signal, how to get them to signal, how to get them to tell you they need to go.
There are so many stages in the first 18 months, which is really the EC window.
Zero to 18 months, you can start any time.
You don't have to start at birth like I did, and it works.
But, um, I would say during like the pre-mobile, pre-crawling, you have them on an observation pad and you p- you pss along with them when they pee, and you can, mm-mm-mm when you see them poop.
The other cool way to do it, if you've ever potty trained a puppy, you take them outside and when you notice they're going in the grass, you say, "Go potty, go potty," right? We've all done this if we've had a pu- a puppy.
And also when they're in the crate, you take them out of the crate and you offer them to go to the bathroom.
It's the same thing as the wake up pee, um, because they don't wanna soil their bed space.
So with sound association, you're basically saying, "Okay, I notice that you're going, pss, or mm-mm," but then you use it as a cue.
So as sound association turns into a cue, and then when you have them positioned, you go pss, and it, they're like, "Oh, I hear the noise.
I associate that with going," and they relax and they're like, "Okay, it's okay to go right here."
So it's like you're cueing your child to go It actually does work like that, like with a puppy.
You put them outside and you say, "Go potty," and after they're trained, they go potty when you say that.
So it becomes this tool where you're, you're filling in a language gap, first through sounds, then when you get into, like, eight months, you're doing signs and words, so you kind of shift a little bit.
And the baby will try to do it, too.
They'll go, pbrt, you know, when they have to go.
Blowing raspberries is a signal 'cause they're trying to do what you're doing.
So in between pottying, what do you have your children in? Are they in disposable diapers? Do you use cloth diapers? Are they in tiny underwear? Um, depends on the age.
So for my first one, I had him in cloth and, um, he was out of diapers at nine and a half months.
Um, and then I had him in training pants made by Gerber, and he peed right through them.
Then I went to Thailand and got tiny undies, all the, the ones that I found out there.
I brought them back and everybody wanted them, so that's why I started Tiny Undies.
And he would wear little underwear, um, starting at that age, and it was really cute.
Gosh, he's just like the, yeah, cutest little bu- I, that's, that's...
Just do it for the cute little butt in the underwear, you guys.
Come on.
A one-year-old in underwear is so adorable.
With other children, though, um, being a sectime mo- second-time mom, et cetera, and, like, most recently, I've been divorced for six years, so I'm a single mom.
So with my last kid, I had my hands full, so I used disposables.
But let me tell you something: and I used compostable disposables.
There's, um, Hero has you put these little mushroom packets in and they just, they biodegrade themselves in the landfill.
Lots of options.
But I didn't use cloth because I noticed my last five babies, that they peed whenever they wanted.
They were so comfortable in cloth that they would just pee in them a lot.
With a disposable, they would resist peeing and signal more clearly.
So I always tell everybody, "Just use the backup that helps them to signal the best and keeps them the driest."
If we're using, like, a super absorbent Pamper, then we're probably gonna get less, fewer signals.
This last baby, I used Pampers Pure, and guess what? She signaled really loudly and well in them because they're not as absorbent as, like, regular Pampers, and they're kinda like Seventh Generation, so they don't have all the chemicals.
They're still terrible for the environment, though.
Yeah, I think there's a variety of backups.
You could choose whatever works.
I would put them into underwear once they are walking.
Put them into underwear at that time, and you really, like, wrap it up gradually between 12 and 18 months.
But in Montessori classrooms, they always put them in cotton pants, cotton underwear at 12 months old, in the 12 year, in the one-year class.
So you could put them in, um, training pants, you can put them in cotton underwear.
Some kids do great in commando with no underwear at all.
Some kids do great naked.
And if they're not peeing on the floor, peeing on the floor is just like peeing in a diaper.
If they're not just peeing on the floor and they're actually taking themselves to the potty, then do it naked at home.
Who cares? Um, and then when you're out on an outing, it actually is easier, so I just want you to know that.
Outings are so much easier than at home.
But you wanna use the backup that gives you...
that's the best tool.
Like, what gets them...
Like, some of my kids at night would pee the whole bed unless I had them in a disposable, which they would not pee in.
Isn't that counterintuitive? Yeah.
So you end up using the same disposable over and over again till the tabs rip off, really, is what we do.
But I usually take diapers away at around walking.
I always do.
And, um, they rise to the occasion.
It's amazing.
And then you just put them in clothing, like a normal, like a toddler, because they're a toddler now.
Yeah, that's a great question.
I love it, and there's lots of options, so many.
So to reuse a diaper, you're talking about you go to change your baby, the diaper is dry- Yeah you potty them, they void in the potty, in the sink, in the top hat, whatever you're using for your family, and then you go right back to that dry diaper and put it back on.
Oh, yeah.
You don't use a new diaper because that one was clean.
Yeah.
Wow, so you're saving so much money.
Tell us about the money that families can save when it comes to doing EC.
Okay, so if you're potty training by one instead of three, and you're taking them out of...
I'm gonna talk about daytime diapers, 'cause nap and nights is different across all babies, and there's a huge range.
Just daytime, you're saving about $2,000 per child- Wow by cutting two years off of the average age, right? So you're doing a third.
Um, so it's about $3,000, they estimate, so you're spending 1,000 instead of 3,000 on disposables.
Over six kids, I've saved $12,000.
I think that's worth it, too.
It's pretty cool.
Wow.
Yeah, I mean, if that's not incentive, I really don't know what is, especially in this economy, right? Like, when you think about the price of having a baby, you don't ever think about the things that you need so often, and I think so many people underestimate how many diapers you're actually gonna go through.
Um, and, and diapering can be very, very expensive.
Okay, being a mom of six, that is also something that I hear all the time.
You touched on daycare, which I think is a lot of people's fears, like, "Oh, well, I can't do this 'cause I, my babies are in daycare."
And I love that you say, you know, and I say this as a, a former teacher- Just tell your teachers.
Just talk to us.
Yeah.
Tell us what you're doing at your home.
Most likely, your teachers are gonna be eager to help you, and they will be so willing to do some sort of EC at school.
It may not be fully what you're doing at home, because there are constraints to having a classroom with multiple children with multiple needs, depending on staffing, depending on how the facility is set up, depending on the schedule.
There's so much that goes into it.
But if you just are honest and communicative and transparent about your goals at home, a good teacher, a supportive teacher, will do what they can to help support your goals while your children are at school.
And so that's just my little thing there.
But- Yeah what about multiple children? Because I know it can feel really stressful to maybe have a child that you're doing EC and then think about having a newborn, and so now you've got a newborn that are in diapers or you've got two children that you're trying to do EC with.
Like, that kind of feels a little daunting, I'm gonna be honest.
Absolutely.
And also, you said that some of the people in your audience are going to have a second baby.
Yeah.
So, and maybe they haven't potty-trained the first one yet.
Yeah.
And we get that a lot.
I say potty train the first one before the new baby comes if you can.
And again, my method takes seven days or less for the potty training.
EC is like, it's a process.
It's not a one-and-done kind of thing.
So even if you're tired, even if you're just like, "Ugh," and, "I don't know," and, "We tried and it didn't work," or whatever just trust me.
Do it, and then when your baby comes, your toddler can help you potty the baby.
And at really young ages, they know when the baby needs to pee.
They actually, if you've never done EC and you're gonna do it with your second, your toddler will know better than you about when your baby is, like, fussing because they need to go potty.
My kids are experts at it.
They're so good at it.
Like, they...
And then they, and then they will want to potty them.
And you'll want to enable that, 'cause you're a second-time mom now, and you're gonna be a lot more relaxed, and you're gonna be like, "Cool, yeah, you can handle the baby," because I, I went to Thailand when my first son was 11 months old, and there were two-year-olds, so they're not very much older than him, picking him up practically by the neck and just carrying him around.
You know, this is what they did out there, you know, in more rur- rural areas.
And, um, so yeah, all my kids have handled all the babies in our family and nothing bad happened.
Like, they're very, uh, rubbery.
You know? Like, they're very, um, resilient.
They're not made of porcelain.
But, um, so they can pick up on the signals better.
They can bring the potty to you.
Um, you can enlist them for help in whatever way you want.
Like, a toddler really wants to help.
And also, when the baby's getting all the attention, h- what a better way to help involve them than in this very cool, bodily function kind of area, which toddlers are so into anything messy, right? They can help in so many ways, and it actually prevents a potty training regression because you are like, "This is what we do in our family."
Mm-hmm.
You know? "And we're gonna try, and we're not gonna be perfect at it, but we're gonna try to help potty the baby."
Um, that's huge.
So if you have more than one, um, I've had fourth-time moms do EC with the fourth baby, and the other three kids were so excited to help.
It's just like, we get to all help.
And the husbands, the dads, the partners, they're like, "Uh, I can't breastfeed.
What can I help with?" They are so good at pottying babies too.
If you give them that job and you really like, "Okay, I think the baby needs to go right now," and set them up for success.
Or grandma, mother-in-law, they'll be like, "Oh, are you sure?" And you're like, "Yeah, just hold them over the sink and say, 'Psst, I, I'm busy.
I can't do it right now.'"
And they'll go do it, and they'll be like, "Whoa, I wanna help with this every time."
And it becomes this, like, extended family thing.
Um, and sometimes it doesn't.
Sometimes people- Yeah are like, "You're weird.
What are you doing? You're gonna mess up the baby."
And you just really, at that point you just stop talking to them about it.
Don't tell them what you're doing, and make it a private thing, um, because why are you doing it? We're not doing it to show off or be first.
We're doing it because we want to tend to the needs.
So yeah, if you have another baby or are having another baby, enlist the toddler, and it really is...
They'll even encourage you to do it more than you probably would want to, so it becomes a really cool...
It's bonding.
It's cool.
It's great.
They can't help you put the baby to sleep, 'cause they're too loud for that, but, like, there's, you know, they want a role.
They want a job.
And if you've been in classrooms, like, they want their work.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a family affair.
Oh, I love it.
It's a family affair.
I- I get so excited about it, 'cause I have six, and, like, we've had so many good memories from this.
It's so great.
That's awesome.
Is it primarily a US or, like, an American thing to keep our babies in disposable diapers for so long? You keep talking about other countries and, like, going to other countries and seeing children be potty trained so much earlier.
So is it an us problem? It's mostly an us problem.
I would say third world countries are starting to get diapers because, hey, enterprising companies are like, "Well, let's tap into these markets."
Um, when I was in Thailand 15 years ago, the trash on the sides of the roads, I mean, they would serve Coca-Cola in a plastic bag inside of a plastic bag, not a cup.
Like, so much trash, and they have no waste management system to handle the trash.
And so diapers we saw in Bangkok, absolutely, and it was an, a sign of affluence.
And you had three-year-olds in diapers, and I was so disappointed.
I was like, "I was so expecting something different here."
But it's a sign of affluence.
We want to be...
And they're Americanizing, right? Um, but then you get out into the country, and I potty my kid on the side of the road, and they're like, "Oh my gosh, you're doing the thing."
That we do, you know? Man.
So it's still there.
Um, when I was in Africa in the year 2000, I was in Ghana doing...
I do dance too, so I was doing African dance there.
I was there for a month, and I didn't know.
I didn't want ki- I was like, "Pfft, whatever.
I'm 20."
And I didn't notice a single diaper except for on the one mentally challenged guy who was in his 80s who was walking around wearing a diaper, like a cloth diaper.
And then all the kids, there were no diapers.
And, um, gosh, these kids were, like, they were just...
I didn't hear a kid cry.
I swear, the whole month I was there, nobody was crying.
Everybody was content and happy and connected and good.
And, um, so yeah, I, uh, if I went back to Ghana today, would there be diapers in Accra? Probably for the affluent.
They're expensive, and they don't biodegrade, so we have a problem.
In the United States, yeah, it's the third-largest part of the waste stream.
They don't biodegrade.
But Hero, you know, they're doing these little mushroom packets that go inside any diaper.
It will biodegrade any diaper, and the pee and poop makes them start to work, and they biodegrade themselves.
So, like, there are people, I know the people at that company, and there are people who are working on the problem.
So I would say it's an us problem.
27 billion diapers a year we put in the landfill.
That was an old statistic from, like, 2009.
And other first world countries, absolutely.
And then you get into the remote areas where they're just poor, and they can't afford it, and they don't have them.
And I wish it would stay that way, but, you know, it just goes down to education.
Like, what you are doing in your culture, please keep that.
Please retain that.
Man.
We're not better.
This is not something to strive for.
We make mistakes, and this is one of our biggest ones.
And we're actually trying to be like you.
I mean, you know, we're trying to get back to the place where we're tapping into our motherly intuition, and we're connecting and bonding with our babies on a cellular level and really tapping into what our babies need.
Like, we see you doing it right, and we wanna be like you.
If you're out there listening, like, oh my gosh, just know that.
Okay, I have a question about the landfill stuff.
You think there's just a bunch of landfills out there that just have piles and piles and piles of hundreds of thousands of diapers, and they're just sitting there? Yes.
Really? And, and they're estimated to biodegrade in s- 500 years.
Oh my gosh.
Okay, and they're also filled with chemicals and poop and pee, and you're actually supposed to dump a disposable diaper of the poop before you throw it away.
It's on the box.
So- Where? It's written on the box.
Like, in the toilet.
You're supposed to dump it.
You're not supposed to throw away human feces.
Oh my God, that must be after it's solid because breast milk poop is liquidy.
Yeah, but still, like, we're throwing away- Th- all the things we're throwing away in this diaper are probab- we joke about this, but they're gonna off-gas and kill us all in, like, 10 years probably.
Like, I sw- you never...
What is happening down there? They're not biodegrading.
Mm.
Waste Management can go in and, like, retroactively biodegrade things- Mm but they can't figure out this problem.
Yeah.
Um- And th- yeah, there, every disposable diaper ever used since the '60s is still in a landfill.
Wow.
It blows my mind.
Yeah, mine too.
Okay, my last question, and then we'll wrap up, is so when we were doing EC very religiously, Saggy never once had a diaper rash, never at all.
Then he had surgery, and because of recovery we needed to just use diapers because it was much easier with all of our doctor's appointments and the recovery- Yeah time and the, the things that we were doing for recovery.
He had a bad diaper rash.
And I have to think that it is because he was going to the bathroom in his diapers a lot more than he was when we were doing EC.
Do you think there's something to this, or am I really off my rocker? You're absolutely spot on.
So back in the day, my mom told me this, in, like, the '70s, if your baby had diaper rash, you were a bad mom.
Now, 95% of babies have diaper rash, and you're not a bad mom.
You're just normal.
So I remember reading in Dr.
Sears' baby book, which was, like, my bible when I was, when I had my first kid and didn't know what to do with a baby it said, "Your baby's just gonna have diaper rash."
And I was like, "I just don't believe that.
It doesn't feel right."
Like, why? Our babies, it doesn't make sense that they have a giant rash on their bottom, like, really bad ones too.
Maybe if I just keep doing EC we won't get that.
And, uh, over six babies I haven't had a single instance of diaper rash, not a single one.
And not to make you feel bad, okay, so if somebody has a C-section or you've had a really traumatic thing happen where you have had babies with surgery or whatever and you can't do EC, I don't want anybody to feel bad about it.
Like, you can always hop back on and in little ways, and I want you to do it in little ways, especially if you've hopped off and then back on, 'cause it's gonna be different.
But, like, please don't feel guilty.
The diaper is fine as a backup.
It's a tool for when we need it.
That's why in part-time EC we do it when we can, right? Um, I had a friend who had a child who had a tube put in 'cause his sphincters didn't work when he was born and he had to poop out of this tube.
Mm.
And they still did sound association with him.
Oh, wow.
So it's like you can still do a part of EC if you can't do all of it 'cause you've had something bad happen.
But back to diaper rash, yeah, it's completely because of the diapers.
It can happen in cloth diapers, and with cloth, the yeast issue is really hard to strip out of the cloth diapers, so then some people switch to disposables to get rid of the diaper rash.
The best thing for diaper rash is to have a bare naked bottomed baby, and when you wanna do diaper free time, I do it after a catch.
So you get a catch, and then you'll lay them on that pad and let them be free, and I like to do the little Play Gym arch thing over it, like the wooden one from, I think it's Emma and Finn, and then, and it has the little things hanging, like the Montessori ring and a bell and stuff.
I'll lay them on there for, like, an hour, 'cause they've already gone, and they just get to be free.
What'd they say? Our grandmas used to say, "Air the baby out."
You need to air the baby out.
So yeah, we call it open-air booty time, and, um- Yeah, we need some open-air booty time.
Yeah, we do open-air booty time a lot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, you know, it's not just for diaper rash.
I just love to have him just be naked.
Like, I just love a big, fat, chunky- Seriously naked baby.
I don't know.
Another reason, another reason to do it, because babies' bottoms are so cute.
They're just, like, super cute.
So cute.
Oh, my God.
You just wanna, like, hold them naked, and everybody, everybody be naked, and just hold the baby and yeah.
It's the best.
Let's- It is the best do a naked commune, Andrea.
I'm in.
We take all of our babies, and we'll just be naked, and we just have the cutest chunka monkas on Earth.
I love it so much.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
I'm in.
Oh, my gosh.
This conversation has been so great.
It has been informational, educational.
It's been so fulfilling for my soul, and it has helped me be more confident in myself as a mom, but also really, really kinda digging into the fact that I think EC is absolutely the right choice for our family.
I know it won't be the right choice for everybody, but for us, it really, really works, and I do get a lot of pleasure from it.
I just find it so joyful, and it's such a great way for Saggy Boy and I to connect and bond, and it is so awesome to be able to educate other families on this.
And so thank you so much for being here with me today.
If people wanted to learn more from you, connect with you, find you on Instagram, you've mentioned a podcast and a book, how can people connect with you after this episode? We're everywhere.
I am everywhere.
I've done my best to be, like, everywhere because, again, as, like, if you want, I don't care how old your child is, we will help you with potty training or whatever.
So we're everywhere @godiperfree, so on Instagram @godiperfree, Facebook Go Diaper Free.
Um, we have a public group, and we have a book owners only group as well, where I have a certified human trained coach, Danielle, who helps people with potty training and EC.
Depending on which book you have, it comes with her support, and she's amazing.
I am at godiperfree.com,
so I have a free easy start guide.
I have a free potty training primer if you just wanna dip your foot in, or I would just suggest if you resonate with this or you're just like, "I'd rather do potty training, but I wanna do it early," or, "I really wanna do EC," just get my books.
They come with a video library.
They come with like- All the things you'll need.
There's an audiobook, a digital book.
You can get the paperback.
I've got you all covered.
Um, but basically it'll tell you everything and then have a lot of troubleshooting, and then they come with Danielle, and Danielle will help you in our groups.
And, um, she's just fantastic.
I- Th- You'll see when you go to get my book, there's, like, also a newborn course.
There's all these other...
I have literally seen it all, and then I only have what works, 'cause I don't wanna waste anybody's time.
So godiaperfree.com,
you'll be able to see all of that stuff there.
And then tinyundies.com
because we need the small potties, we need the top-hat potty, and we need the underwear and the training pants.
They're 100% cotton.
And waterproof pads, wet-dry bags, I've got all those things.
I also have little board books for babies that don't have an emphasis on, "I'm ready to use the potty," or, you know, "I'm gonna go in my diaper sometimes," or, "I'm a duck and I make a giant mess."
Like, it's none of that weird...
It's, like, actually the process.
Probably have some other things on my websites too, I can't remember, but it's basically all the tools that you need.
And then also if you're like, "Oh, I also wanna be a mompreneur," I have that too.
But for that you just have to go to andreaolsen.com
and you'll see all that.
It's kind of more private.
I like to coach people.
I like to help them.
I think that's it.
Yeah.
Oh, I'm also on YouTube.
Just look for Go Diaper Free and you'll see all my videos, and there's a lot of, on Instagram and YouTube, I have a lot of people actually, or babies actually being pottied.
And I think it's really important for you to see it, to understand it.
And, like, anything...
Oh, and the podcast.
You can search on my blog on Go Diaper Free and go through my podcast and, like, find anything you want.
I've got over 200 episodes.
So yeah, whether you wanna pay me for help or not, you can literally get anything you want all over the internet.
I love it so much.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh, you are truly a servant leader, and I am just so blessed to have you on the show.
I'm so grateful to be sharing this space with you.
I am really, really happy that you came on the show today, so thank you so, so much.
You guys, we will link Andrea's stuff in the show notes so that you have easy access to it.
It's all the things, uh, you need and nothing that you don't.
And Andrea, I'm going to go grab that open-air Booty Time mat, and I'm gonna go grab some board books for Saggy Boy so that we can start to read about EC in our home.
Awesome.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you guys for listening.
Absolutely.
Oh my gosh, you guys, I hope that you feel as fulfilled as I do after this episode.
And if you've been wondering about EC, this is a great time to start.
No matter where you are in your journey and no matter how old your baby is, it's never too late.
And if you're pregnant and you're expecting a baby, give it some consideration.
I started from about eight or nine weeks.
We did the first eight or nine weeks in disposable diapers.
I felt like I just couldn't take on EC in the very, very beginning.
And then we did it, and it was just, it was truly so much fun.
I know not a lot of people talk about toileting in a way that you describe it as fun, but I genuinely cannot tell you how much joy I get from the catches and from being able to bond.
And, you know, you're doing it in front of a mirror, and so when your baby goes, they're gonna look up at you, and they have this big smile on your face, and you're smiling, and you're celebrating, and you have the mirror there for the feedback.
It's just, it is a whole vibe.
It really is.
All right, you guys, I will see you in the next episode.
Be sure to follow Andrea on social media, and you can find me at TranquilitybyHeHe and at the.birth.lounge.
Until next time, head to your App Store and download the Birth Lounge app for evidence-based childbirth education and data-driven postpartum support delivered straight to your phone.
Bye.
Thank you so much for tuning in today.
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