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Patriots Unfiltered 9/23: Steelers Recap, Good/Bad Football, HOF Weekend · Patriots Unfiltered

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Some of the content of Patriots Unfiltered may not be
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: The World's a Pigeon podcast.
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  Speaker 1: Welcome to Patriots Unfiltered.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: No Socks and myself are going to be sitting down
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: with Bill Pressells to do a patch for the past episode.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I'd be intimidated. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, you know
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: them though you have a relationship with them, Because I
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: felt that way, I am not going to be able
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: to join and I can make it about At this point,
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  Speaker 1: I think I can take.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Them, yeah, like physically, like if it came to that.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: If it doesn't caring him say that, I flashed back
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: to you know when I played high school football.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: He's always going to make it about him.
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  Speaker 4: What's this have to do with your It's funny putting.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Sharpness put in. I didn't look it up, so I
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: don't know if it's true, but everything you read on
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: the internet sounds true. That ship with the crazy Mike
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: and Evan at eleven and five, I'm gonna sneeze out
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  Speaker 1: there a good solid record. All I asked day It's
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  Speaker 1: like chicken fingers, Paul, this is Patriot's Unfiltered.
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  Speaker 5: Presented by Toyota's official website. For deals, buy a Toyota
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  Speaker 5: dot com.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: All right, welcome the Patriots Unfiltered. It is Tuesday here
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: at Jillette Stadium. We got a lot to unwrap from
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: this weekend. It was a big weekend here at Jillette Stadium.
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  Speaker 2: We had the Hall of Fame inductions of Bill Parcells
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  Speaker 2: and Julian Edelman on Saturday, and then the game that
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  Speaker 2: we need to unravel on Sunday. We're not gonna quite
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  Speaker 2: look ahead to the Panthers yet today. That's a turn
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  Speaker 2: the page Wednesday. But it's Deuce, it's Evan, it's Paul,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: it's me, it's Matt. Now it's in the booth, and uh,
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  Speaker 2: where do we start? I guess Saturday, right, because we're
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  Speaker 2: going to get to Sunday.
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  Speaker 1: Don't worry about it.
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  Speaker 2: But I thought it was another good day for the organization.
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  Speaker 2: Bill Parcell's coming back. First time he's been here since
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  Speaker 2: I think three when he was coaching, so it was
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  Speaker 2: good to see him.
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  Speaker 1: Paul, is that right, the first time I think he's
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  Speaker 1: actually been here. I think that's amazing. Yeah, I think so.
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  Speaker 2: Matt and I sat down with him we'll have that
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  Speaker 2: content looking forward to it. Yeah, that was fun. And
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  Speaker 2: Robert Kraft crashed the party, so there was some good
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  Speaker 2: exchange between the two of that.
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  Speaker 1: That's a good thing. I wasn't here. Yeah, I got
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  Speaker 1: myself in trouble, so that was good.
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  Speaker 2: And then of course the ceremony is that the bean
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  Speaker 2: done with this speech?
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I've been hearing that joke.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well I like the Rabel joke. But what he's
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  Speaker 1: saying he told him. I guess when he was on
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  Speaker 1: EI he told him, Bro, halftime's only thirteen minutes. Tighten
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  Speaker 1: that up.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, good for Julian, it's his day.
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  Speaker 2: He had like seventy five friends and family here for it.
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  Speaker 2: It means a lot to him, and that's good to
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  Speaker 2: know that it does mean a lot to him. So
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  Speaker 2: a lot of old alumni here, which was good to see.
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  Speaker 7: Uh.
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  Speaker 2: And then of course the game. Then we get to
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  Speaker 2: the game on Sunday. Well, where do we start turnovers?
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  Speaker 1: This is an easy one. Yeah, frustrating frustrating turnovers and
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  Speaker 1: that's why you lost. Otherwise, you out played them for
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  Speaker 1: the vast majority of the game and probably should have
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  Speaker 1: won the game. I hesitate to use the word deserve,
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  Speaker 1: because when you turn it over five times, you really
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  Speaker 1: don't deserve to win. But yeah, if they had only
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  Speaker 1: turned it over four times, they probably would have won. Yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it's true. I mean, the better team. They just kept
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  Speaker 1: shooting themselves in the fourth.
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  Speaker 3: They were I shared your frustration Fred after the game,
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  Speaker 3: when we were on the postgame show and you were
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  Speaker 3: ready to jump right back out there, and you said
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  Speaker 3: you wanted to go right back out Sunday. I felt similarly,
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  Speaker 3: you know, spending the day reflecting, looking at it a
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  Speaker 3: little bit. You know, I've kind of settled in. I mean,
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  Speaker 3: I think there's enough positive there that you have to
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  Speaker 3: have some patience. And we knew this was going to
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  Speaker 3: be a little bit of a process, and I've seen
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  Speaker 3: enough positive on both sides of the ball too. I'm
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  Speaker 3: sitting there last night watching that game, the track me
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  Speaker 3: back and forth between those two great teams, and I said,
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  Speaker 3: you know, I could maybe see the Patriots playing this
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  Speaker 3: kind of game in a couple of years. You know,
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  Speaker 3: I think there's some foundational pieces that, you know, you
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  Speaker 3: get down that road, maybe you're gonna They're not there yet,
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  Speaker 3: and I don't think if you want to cut Remandra
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  Speaker 3: Stevenson or play Kyle Williams Moore or play after I
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  Speaker 3: don't think any of those things are really going to
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  Speaker 3: make a grand difference and get them to that level
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  Speaker 3: that we.
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  Speaker 4: Saw from the Ravens and the lines last night.
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  Speaker 3: But I think what Josh is doing the good stuff
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  Speaker 3: from Drake, some positive strides from the defense, that there's
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  Speaker 3: some good stuff there. And again it's it's I think
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  Speaker 3: it's about patients and getting Drake comfortable and confident.
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  Speaker 2: I just had a different feeling from that game than
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  Speaker 2: I had from games last year. And the difference is
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  Speaker 2: that I could see it was so obvious what they
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  Speaker 2: needed to do to win, which was obviously take care
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  Speaker 2: of the ball that you know, I just want to
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  Speaker 2: get out there and given another shot, give it. You know,
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  Speaker 2: we've all had those things where we've tried in the past,
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  Speaker 2: whether it's a physical endeavor or a test that you
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  Speaker 2: took in school and you didn't do as well as
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  Speaker 2: you thought you could do.
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  Speaker 1: You let we get away.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, It's like, man, I could have done better, Now
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  Speaker 2: give me another crack at that.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And that's how I find get away.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, That's that's how I felt coming out of that game,
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  Speaker 2: Give me another shot at that one, you know.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, And last year it was like, can we just
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  Speaker 1: get the season over? Really?
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  Speaker 8: No?
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  Speaker 3: I mean I agree with that point, and I mean,
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  Speaker 3: you know, Evan grinded the tape too, But when you
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  Speaker 3: were looking at it in your there's just not a
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  Speaker 3: lot of positive to feel great about and to feel
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  Speaker 3: like you're building some kind of foundation for something better.
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  Speaker 3: And look, it's little pieces here and there, and you
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  Speaker 3: have to go and find them. But at the same time,
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  Speaker 3: three games into the season, they haven't gotten rid of
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  Speaker 3: all the bad characteristics that made them a bad team
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  Speaker 3: the last two years ago, and that's going to be
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  Speaker 3: a little bit of a process.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, I just right now on process over results for
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  Speaker 6: the time being. It's it's only three weeks into the season,
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  Speaker 6: only three weeks into Mike Rable's tenure as a head coach.
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  Speaker 6: And at some point we're going to have to look
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  Speaker 6: back December and January and say, well, they averaged twenty
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  Speaker 6: one points a game, nineteen points a game, or whatever
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  Speaker 6: it ends up falling on, and that wasn't good enough
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  Speaker 6: and different things like that. But when you turn on
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  Speaker 6: the film of their offense, I'm just highly encouraged by
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  Speaker 6: Drake May and by Josh McDaniels and the way that
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  Speaker 6: they're running the offense right now, and the scheme is dynamic.
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  Speaker 6: They are catering into Drake May, they are moving the
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  Speaker 6: pocket a lot, they have them in the shotgun a lot.
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  Speaker 6: There's different things that they are doing that is very
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  Speaker 6: highly encouraging that if they can just stop shooting themselves
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  Speaker 6: in the foot and get their own way. There's just
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  Speaker 6: so much great offense that they're putting on tape that
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  Speaker 6: I did not see from this team the last let's
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  Speaker 6: call it two three years.
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  Speaker 2: See that's and that's I agree, And that's one thing
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  Speaker 2: that I'll push back on youtubes when you say, you know,
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  Speaker 2: we're seeing the same things from last year that kept
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  Speaker 2: them from winning games.
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  Speaker 1: That's different.
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  Speaker 2: You know, Well, the hope that I see on the offense,
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  Speaker 2: the identity that I start I'm starting to see emerge
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  Speaker 2: from the offense is not something I saw last year.
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  Speaker 2: And that's giving me encouragement, and it's you know, like,
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  Speaker 2: let's go out there.
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  Speaker 1: And keep working on that.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, I agree with you, but I would still
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  Speaker 3: say the little moments that lose you the games are
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  Speaker 3: the little moments last year that preventing you from even
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  Speaker 3: getting on track, you know, So those just I mean, look,
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  Speaker 3: it's knowing fourth and one where you got to get
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  Speaker 3: and knowing the right play and getting the ball over.
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  Speaker 3: You know, fourth and one got to have a moment.
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  Speaker 3: Good teams, when it's on the line, they make those plays.
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  Speaker 3: I agree with your general point. There's positives that I
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  Speaker 3: feel like, you know, Drake looks like he is in
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  Speaker 3: an offense now that can suit him. I still think
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  Speaker 3: they need to really upgrade the talent at the receiver position.
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  Speaker 3: I think that is something that now comes to the
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  Speaker 3: forefront that yes they don't have a down the field option. Uh,
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  Speaker 3: but you know, they just they have to clean up
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  Speaker 3: these little mistakes. And to me, look, Ramondre is the
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  Speaker 3: perfect example because last year he was the poster child
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  Speaker 3: for its seven fumbles. This game you had Vermondre with
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  Speaker 3: two fumbles. So those are the elements I'm looking to
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  Speaker 3: clean up from the last couple of years that has
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  Speaker 3: split I hear.
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  Speaker 2: Right that he's had nine fumbles in eighteen games, correct,
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  Speaker 2: that would.
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  Speaker 4: Make sense.
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  Speaker 1: Games.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, all the things that deuc are saying Duce is
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  Speaker 6: saying are all accurate if the only thing that you're
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  Speaker 6: worried about right now is wins and losses, if you
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  Speaker 6: kind of take a step back and look at the
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  Speaker 6: process and the bigger picture of this, which I know
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  Speaker 6: is hard to do. Like we all watch these games
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  Speaker 6: on Sundays, and we all came out of that game
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  Speaker 6: on Sunday frustrated as hell that they just lost that
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  Speaker 6: game to a team that really the Steelers just really
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  Speaker 6: aren't very good.
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  Speaker 4: And they lost the game.
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  Speaker 6: But when you look at the different things that they
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  Speaker 6: are doing, I could see six weeks from now that
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  Speaker 6: this offense really might grow exponentially. And I just want
• 8:43
  Speaker 6: to give Josh McDaniels his flowers, because they don't really
• 8:47
  Speaker 6: have a ton to work with on offense at the
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  Speaker 6: skill positions, and he has basically schemed this offense around
• 8:54
  Speaker 6: the two tight ends Henry and Hooper in the running backs,
• 8:58
  Speaker 6: and that's how they're generating their offense is by running
• 9:02
  Speaker 6: it through those players. And the things that they have
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  Speaker 6: done to do that, you know, to split back formations
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  Speaker 6: when he has two guys with him in the backfield,
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  Speaker 6: the bootlegs from under center, like these different things that
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  Speaker 6: they've done to scheme open guys, Like there's receivers all
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  Speaker 6: over the tape open all over the place, and like
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  Speaker 6: that I just was not seeing.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: So when you see those guys open, are you also
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  Speaker 2: seeing the exact time in the pocket where they might
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  Speaker 2: be open over here, but he's under pressure over here
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  Speaker 2: and there's no way he can see that.
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  Speaker 6: Well, I'm talking about open and he's throwing to him.
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  Speaker 6: Oh yeah, Like I'm not talking about like, oh this guy,
• 9:41
  Speaker 6: because I hear what you're saying, Like he's open on
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  Speaker 6: the other side of the field and there's no way
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  Speaker 6: that Drake May is going to see him. You know,
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  Speaker 6: there's times that they're completing the passes certainly, but even
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  Speaker 6: on some of the incompletions, it's usually not because there's
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  Speaker 6: nobody open right Like I don't see a lot of
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  Speaker 6: dropbacks right now where Drake May is just kind of
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  Speaker 6: looking around, looking around and.
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  Speaker 9: There's nobody open. I'm not seeing a ton of that.
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  Speaker 6: And so a lot of that, to me, because the
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  Speaker 6: Duce's point about the receiver talent, I think a lot
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  Speaker 6: of that is McDaniels, Like, I think that he's doing
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  Speaker 6: a really great job of scheming guys open right now
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  Speaker 6: and dressing plays up and coming out in different formations
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  Speaker 6: and unique looks and different things. Like they had that
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  Speaker 6: split back in the gun that produced three huge plays
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  Speaker 6: in the game on Sunday, a touchdown to Hunter Henry,
• 10:28
  Speaker 6: wheel route to Henry, and then another fifteen yard play
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  Speaker 6: to Henry later on too. That is just good scheme, Like,
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  Speaker 6: it's just good stuff, and they're doing it without really
• 10:38
  Speaker 6: a ton of vertical stretch to the field either, like
• 10:42
  Speaker 6: there's nothing really going on down the field, and yet
• 10:45
  Speaker 6: they're finding ways to get the tight ends and get
• 10:48
  Speaker 6: the underneath routes into catch and run situations. So I'm
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  Speaker 6: just really excited about what I've seen from all that
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  Speaker 6: now to everything that Duces laid out. They still aren't
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  Speaker 6: making the winning plays, and that's that's frustrating. But if
• 11:03
  Speaker 6: you take a step back and kind of look at
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  Speaker 6: it big picture, you can see where they're going if
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  Speaker 6: they can just kind of get.
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  Speaker 2: I agree, and that's what I see. Yeah, And that's
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  Speaker 2: the difference I see from last year.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: I don't want to do a repeat of what we
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: did in the post game and make this a semantics thing.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: I'm more with Mike than with you and Evan it's different.
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  Speaker 1: I agree with you guys. It's different because last year,
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  Speaker 1: when they didn't score as many points as it seems
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: like they should have, it wasn't because they would turn
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: the ball over in the end zone twice. I mean,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: it's pretty clear in this game, you just hold onto
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: the ball a little bit and you score twice as
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: many points and you win the game. I mean, I
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: think it's pretty obvious. That's why I don't really think
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of analysis that needs to happen for
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: this game. You turn it over five times twice in
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: the end zone, you're going to lose a game that
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: you probably should have won. Right, Yep, we all agree.
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  Speaker 1: I think last year when they had and they did Yeah,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I know, people don't remember any of the good games
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: that Drake may had last year, but they did have
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: some games where they had like four hundred yards of
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: offense and twenty points and you looked at the end
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: of the game and you're like, how did they only
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: score that? It wasn't turnovers necessarily. Last year. It was
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: more an offensive line breakdown, a holding call once they
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: got three first downs, and then all of a sudden
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: they got in field goal ranging then they got pushed
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: back because back to back holding calls created a third
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: and twenty five they couldn't convert and they ended up
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: not scoring any points. On Sunday, it was back to
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: back first downs, we're going to fumble in the end zone,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: or we're going to convert a fourth down with Drake
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: May making a terrific play around the end and any
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: fumbles on the next play trying to do too much.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Like there were different reasons, but I'm kind of with Mike,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: it's kind of the same result. And if it happens
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: like Evan said, six weeks from now, you're like, they've
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: cleaned up those penalties, which are problem every game, they've
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: cleaned up the opportunities they've started to hold onto the ball.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Then I'll say this is different. But right now I
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: don't care why you don't score enough points. But the
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: first game of the first game of the year, it
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: wasn't turn overs, I agree, but.
• 13:16
  Speaker 9: Important like road to nowhere.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: But there's always a why. It's just different. This week
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: it was turn o. The first week, it was inaccuracy
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: from the quarterback right the first week, the quarterback was
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: inaccurate the whole second half. This week it was they
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: couldn't hold onto the ball. Last year was the offensive
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: line couldn't go three plays without allowing a sack or
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: committing a old penalty.
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: But there's nothing you can do.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: There's always a why. But I don't remember they eliminate
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: the why. I can't just say they're going to eliminate
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: the why evidence.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: But I don't remember many games, if any where, I
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: came out of it saying we were the better team.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, I can remember games they were better then your
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: memory better than that. Now they they deserved more points.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: That's all I'm saying that they were better, worse, whatever. Again,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: I don't want to turn this into a Samantha. To me,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: that's a big deal. He played ten games last year.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Four of them they had the same offensive production that
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: they did on Sunday in no points, just like this,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: only it wasn't because they turned it over five times.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: It was a different reason why they didn't score points.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's always something I get. In order to lose
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: the game, there has to be reasons, right, But.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Until I see them being able to score points commensurate
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: with the way they moved the ball, or consistently move
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: it and produce I'm not going to assume it's going
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: to happen, but I see, I see the potential. I
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: think Drake May has played better this year than last year.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: That's the one difference. Well then that's a big difference. Yeah,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: a huge difference, of course it is. But he hasn't
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: played at a high enough level too.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: But I see the potential for it turning around.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: The last two games he's played better, I think than
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: he did in most of the games last year. That's
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: the first game he didn't So that's three games.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: This will went to the season saying that's number one
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: seeing improvement from him.
• 15:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah, right right, I just think if you know, I
• 15:05
  Speaker 6: hear what Paul is saying, I do. I just last
• 15:09
  Speaker 6: year their offensive line.
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: Was the achilles heel, no doubt, but it was.
• 15:14
  Speaker 6: An achilles heel that could not be fixed in season
• 15:17
  Speaker 6: they had. They did not have the talent, the requisite
• 15:19
  Speaker 6: talent on the offensive line.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: To make it better.
• 15:22
  Speaker 6: Right, like Trey Jacobs, Inviterian Lower, you're starting tackles.
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: And Will Campbell and Morgan Moses are better players than that.
• 15:28
  Speaker 6: That's not going anywhere. Remondros Stevenson not fumbling the ball
• 15:32
  Speaker 6: going into the end zone is something that is not
• 15:34
  Speaker 6: the same as like, these two tackles are not NFL
• 15:37
  Speaker 6: caliber starting tackles, and we can't IVI this not the
• 15:41
  Speaker 6: same as season. So like, I think that's just where. Yeah,
• 15:45
  Speaker 6: if you want to sit here and say, you know,
• 15:47
  Speaker 6: they only scored fourteen points, it's not enough points obviously,
• 15:51
  Speaker 6: but they have the potential to be have a much
• 15:54
  Speaker 6: higher ceiling with what they're putting on film now than
• 15:57
  Speaker 6: what they were doing over the last couple of years.
• 16:00
  Speaker 6: And it's pretty cut and dry, I think, like just
• 16:04
  Speaker 6: looking even at the advanced stats of it all, like
• 16:07
  Speaker 6: Drake May right now is eighth in the league and
• 16:09
  Speaker 6: expected points added per dropback, He's a top ten quarterback
• 16:12
  Speaker 6: in the NFL.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Balls call me when you start scoring points.
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: I get it.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: I'm going to work with you to help you score points.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: I'm more sympathetic.
• 16:20
  Speaker 9: I get he's not wrong. I'm just telling you.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: I'm not like you, guys. I can't tell what's going
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: to happen. I can only go by what has happened.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: I know, but you know, part of our job is
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: to see what might happen and try to guess.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: And I but if I'm going to go by what
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: I'm going to guess is something different's going to happen
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: in two weeks. So, yeah, we haven't seen you, so
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: you're you're Because I don't think they're good enough offensively,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think they're good enough offensively as
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: professionals because they don't make it and they don't get
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: any chunks. They don't make anything easy.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the chunks are going to come. Okay,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: I think that's going to open eventually, you know. I
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: think he wants to get this stuff right first, and
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: then teams are going to have to start defending this
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: and then he'll open it up.
• 17:06
  Speaker 6: The chunks is interesting because I actually did some some numbers.
• 17:10
  Speaker 9: On that.
• 17:12
  Speaker 6: They are getting a decent amount of chunk plays, but
• 17:15
  Speaker 6: their chunk plays they're not as chunky as other teams.
• 17:19
  Speaker 6: So the word I use was like, their explosives aren't explosive.
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: So they're actually generating the seventh most explosive plays in
• 17:28
  Speaker 6: the NFL for the first three weeks in the season.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: So what's the definition of an explosive play plus twenty
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: plus twenty in the past now, is that in the
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: air or that's a catch?
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: No, just has to be in the air.
• 17:38
  Speaker 6: No, it's just a twenty yard play. Okay, Well, I
• 17:41
  Speaker 6: don't know what the difference is.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Well, like if guy breaks five tackles, then in your definition,
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: that becomes an explosive play if he gets over twenty.
• 17:48
  Speaker 9: Yards, yeah, because it's supposed to be.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: To me, that's not an explosive play. Okay. Anyways, it's
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: not just you know what I mean.
• 17:56
  Speaker 6: No, Okay, if you get if you get twenty plus
• 17:59
  Speaker 6: ards on a play, it's twenty plus yards.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 18:02
  Speaker 6: So the explosive plays, they're seventh in the league in
• 18:04
  Speaker 6: explosive place, but they're thirtieth in the league and average
• 18:08
  Speaker 6: yards on those explosive plays, so they're not getting.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: Big play point.
• 18:15
  Speaker 6: So like they are getting twenty yards at a time
• 18:18
  Speaker 6: on some of these chunk plays, but they're not getting
• 18:21
  Speaker 6: fifty yards at a time, right, So like that I
• 18:25
  Speaker 6: think is yeah, maybe where your thing comes into it.
• 18:28
  Speaker 6: Where like when Rabel says we're not getting enough explosive plays,
• 18:32
  Speaker 6: which is what led me down this rabbit hole.
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: He's talking about like.
• 18:35
  Speaker 6: The fifty five yard completion to Remandre in Miami whips
• 18:38
  Speaker 6: the field, right, He's not talking about the twenty three
• 18:42
  Speaker 6: yard completion to Remondre on the third down in last
• 18:46
  Speaker 6: week's game, like that, that is to him and to you,
• 18:49
  Speaker 6: that's not truly That's a catch and run underneath kind
• 18:52
  Speaker 6: of play that goes for twenty three yards and not
• 18:54
  Speaker 6: truly an explosive play. And I think that that's the
• 18:57
  Speaker 6: big difference right now at their offense. They're way I
• 19:00
  Speaker 6: would like, they are getting chunk plays, but they're not
• 19:02
  Speaker 6: getting explosive plays, and that I think is like a
• 19:06
  Speaker 6: tough line to draw.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: But but I also think it's tough because I agree
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: with everything you said about the offensive game plans the
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: last two weeks and how effective they've been. I think
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: that's also a hard thing to do every week, is
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: to have to rely on having the perfect setups and
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: sequences to plays to get Hunter Henry, you know, free
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: free up the sideline for that wheel route, and to
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: get Remondre Stevenson for that twenty like that. That's hard.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: That's hard when you can't just say, you know what,
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: at some point, we're just gonna give the ball to
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Jamier Gibbs and he's gonna make three guys miss and
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: he's gonna be able to pick up a first down.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Or you know, we're gonna send our you know, elite
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: wide receiver, you know, and he's gonna beat I don't
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: care if they haven't double cover, but he's gonna he's
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: gonna win those we don't have. We don't have that guy,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: enough of those kinds of players yet. Yeah, it doesn't
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: mean that you'll never have it. To to Mike's point,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: I think at the start of the show, you said, like,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: I could envision something like what we watched last night
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: a year or two down the road, if they can
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: get some explosive playmakers, and who knows, maybe Kyle Williams
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: would be one of those guys. It's the whole Ex's
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: and O, Jimmy's and Joe's thing, right, And I agree
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: with everything that Evan said about Josh McDaniels and the effect,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: and I think he's getting everything that he can out
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: of what he has. Yeah, I agree.
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: I mean he is.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Absolute that wholeheartedly.
• 20:26
  Speaker 6: He has absolutely taken every single thing that he can
• 20:29
  Speaker 6: leverage against the defense, and he's used it, like whether
• 20:32
  Speaker 6: it's formations, it's Drake May's mobility, it's I mean, like
• 20:35
  Speaker 6: they're doing everything they can to move the football schematically.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: The other thing is that I would worry about and
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: again this is admitted admittedly that I worry about a
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: lot of crap that most people probably don't. They're relying
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: right now on as I said, you know, scheme, and
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: they leaning on those two tight ends. What you know,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Hunter Henry gets banged up in that game the other day, right,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: what if he's you know, at less than one hundred percent,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: what if he can't go in one of these games.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: He seems to be a huge part of what they're
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: trying to do. I'd like to see if yeah, yeah,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: And I'd like to see if Diggs could could maybe
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: sort of emerge. I thought the kinds of catches Digs
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: are is making, I expected. I just thought there'd be
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: more of them, you know, Fred says, you know, like
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: the volume hasn't been there. I just wonder if maybe
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: they can continue to to evolve.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: I think, I mean, that's what's apparent to me is
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: just I think reality hits home.
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: You have a set of opinions.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: You come to in the summer when you watch these guys,
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: and for me watching Stefan Diggs was kind of eye
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: opening in the summer, and then you get into these
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: games and you realize this isn't quite back to what
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: even Stefan Diggs was last year coming off in a
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: cl uh. But when you look at you know, Booty
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: and the other guys, Pop Douglas is inconsistencies they it's
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: starting to be laring to me of what it's the
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: same old thing. And I think it's the core of
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: your argument, Paul, is just they don't have the horses
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: to support Drake quite yet and the way that they
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: need to. And when I look at Detroit now where
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: they've arrived and think back a couple of years ago
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: when Dan Campbell arrived and they were first starting to
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: build it, and you know, you see each year they're
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: adding talented guys who are now making big plays for them.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: And that's what you have to build around Drake to
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: make a really functional football team, not just a team
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: with a few pieces of talent that you know, you
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: feel good about and you think are going to have
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: good NFL careers.
• 22:31
  Speaker 9: Especially the deep passing game like they have.
• 22:33
  Speaker 6: They really don't have any vertical stretch to the offense
• 22:37
  Speaker 6: right now, and that goes back to the exposive plays thing.
• 22:42
  Speaker 6: They really just don't I mean Drake May is only
• 22:44
  Speaker 6: attempting a deep pass on six percent of his dropbacks,
• 22:48
  Speaker 6: and that's not a Drake May problem.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: Like we all know the Booty, right, I mean, like
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: Booty and maybe one to I don't know, it's it's
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: not one other one and and they don't really have
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: on paper.
• 22:58
  Speaker 6: It's kind of hard unless Kyle Williams really starts to emerge.
• 23:03
  Speaker 6: It's kind of hard to see where they could that
• 23:06
  Speaker 6: could come from with the current group.
• 23:08
  Speaker 9: That they have out there.
• 23:09
  Speaker 6: Like I don't think that that's Mac Collins digs in
• 23:13
  Speaker 6: Booty's game is you know, being able to really get
• 23:17
  Speaker 6: behind the defense and stretch it vertically. So Kyle Williams
• 23:21
  Speaker 6: is the one guy that that maybe could do something
• 23:25
  Speaker 6: like that, but he's a rookie and we'll see.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: So I want to tie in Saturday to Sunday a
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: little bit. And you know, we all saw Rabel after
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: the game address, you know, the Ramandre Stevenson issues, Like,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: you know, guys, twenty minutes after the game, I don't
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: know what I'm going to do yet, And I was
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: thinking to myself, this is a time where you could
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: use Bill Parcells. Bill Parcells would know what to do.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Unlike Bill Belichick, everything's black and white, just bencham, you know,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: just get him out of the game. I think Parcels
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: might have some clever way of getting through to him.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: And I don't want to give up on ramondre Stevenson.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: We need him, you know, just like Rabel said, I
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: don't want to just you know, forget about him.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: But I don't know what to do.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: I think you need somebody like a Bill Parcells who
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: has all those years of experience, He's probably seen this
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: before several times and knows how to get through to
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: a player, you know when something like this.
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, or knows when you can't get through to a
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: player or just h. I mean, you guys always use
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: that they don't bite his puppies. They're not going to
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: bite his dogs. Is this connected to another thing of
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: Parcelves where it's said, at a certain point, a guy's
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: just fumble prone, and that's how it is, and he's
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: not gonna be able to fix it.
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: He'll quit put.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Mike and I said this on the post Game show.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: I'm going to repeat it now because I know sometimes
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: people aren't necessarily listening on Sundays. I wouldn't release him.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: I would not release Stevenson right now. However, I could
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: make a really strong argument for it. And it's kind
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: of what Mike just said. If you had a quarterback,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: if Drake May, would you say right now, Drake May
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: is emerging but still kind of mistake prone. Yes at times? Yes, Right,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: let's just fast forward three years and put him in
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: year five. If he was still doing what he did
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: in the fourth quarter, wouldn't you say we got to
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: move on. We got to get another guy, We got
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: to bench him. It's Daniel Jones with the Giants. We're
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: going to bench him. He's he's not getting any better,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: like we have doing it. But for some reason, it's
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Rimandri Stevenson. It's a running back. We can't somehow well
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: they need him. They can't get guy without it with
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: another running back in there.
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: And it gets tough because he's.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: He's definitely tough.
• 25:39
  Speaker 6: He's one of their best skilled players and he is.
• 25:42
  Speaker 6: And besides, don't worry, but this is just Mike and I.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: We have a show. We have a show going.
• 25:50
  Speaker 6: Besides Hunter Henry like he's he's really when he's kind
• 25:55
  Speaker 6: of stirring the drink right now, and the game in
• 25:58
  Speaker 6: Miami is like the p of what it can be with.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Player on the fields. Player on the field.
• 26:05
  Speaker 6: It's it's such a big part of what they're trying
• 26:07
  Speaker 6: to do schematically is running it through.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Here's what I worry about is, let's just say that
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: there is some technique that Rabel or one of the
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: coaches gives to Remandre.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: I look at Stephen Ridley.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: He had a fumbling problem and he kind of corrected it,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: but it affected his running game. It affected how he
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: ran with the you know, with the abandoned and I
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: think he was never the same after that, after he
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: had those problems. I don't think he ever became the
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: same runner again.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't really remember enough, but you're probably right.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: And I would just say to when we talked on
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: the post game, I wouldn't release him, as I said, but.
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: I would this week flip flop the roles.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: I would have Gibson as the lead back this week
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: and have Stevenson as the guy who comes in, you know,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: to spell him and keep Henders in his third down roll, who,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: by the way, needs to improve in that role too.
• 27:04
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Right, that's certainly got to improve is his past protection.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: If he's going to stay out there and that they're
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: a down roll. That's another part we get to the points.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: I just I want to make one more point though,
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: reminder real quick, was that I thought Brabil was interesting
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: yesterday when asked with that, and he said something to
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: the effect of, We're just going to continue to practice it.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: That's all I know how to do, practice the crap
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: out of it. And to me, it's like kind of
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: like we we keep not what do you do? What
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: do you do? And Brabil's way of answering that question
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: of saying, the only thing I know how to do.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: You know, it's it's not a little story or put
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: your thumb here, or you know, let me tell you
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: about this player like, it's not a little mental thing like.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: And the second part of it for me is you
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: heard the Steelers players all talk about we knew it,
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: and so how does it feel, as reminder Stevenson knowing
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: that every game you're going to go into right now,
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: they are coming to punch that ball out every single.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: By the way, I don't know if you guys caught
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Tomlin he said in particular, Yeah, he said it about
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Stevenson about May two. Oh yeah, yeah, no, no, well
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: he's right, So he's into it. And they said that
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: they felt like they could get the ball loose in him,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: that he fumbles, he's loose in the pocket, and he is.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: And again it's year two for him. He's clearly established
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: starting quarterback. He's going nowhere. But if we're having these
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: same conversations three years down the road and you're a
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: year five, year six like Stevenson, yeah, Like that's why
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's I wouldn't release Stevenson, but I
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: don't think it's outrageous to suggest that that might be
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: the best course.
• 28:38
  Speaker 6: I just think it's tough because of the player, the
• 28:41
  Speaker 6: other two running backs, Like.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: If they had that's a great point or at.
• 28:44
  Speaker 6: The position, I would feel more confident in it. But
• 28:47
  Speaker 6: Gibson put the ball on the ground too, and.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: By the way, has a fumbling history, maybe not as
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: much here, but that's why he's no longer in Washington.
• 28:56
  Speaker 6: Yeah, he you know, he puts the ball on the
• 28:58
  Speaker 6: ground also, And then trey On it's super talented, but
• 29:02
  Speaker 6: right now he looks like a rookie, like he game's
• 29:05
  Speaker 6: moving really fast for him when he's running the ball
• 29:08
  Speaker 6: between the tackles, you know, he's running into crowds. He's
• 29:10
  Speaker 6: running into piles instead of finding the creases and seeing
• 29:14
  Speaker 6: the cutback lanes, and like he's right now, he's got
• 29:18
  Speaker 6: he's one track, right, he's got tunnel vision for the field.
• 29:22
  Speaker 6: And the pass protection stuff too has been obviously up
• 29:25
  Speaker 6: and down, but they gave him more carries in this
• 29:27
  Speaker 6: game after all the fumbling by the two lead guys
• 29:31
  Speaker 6: and watching some of those carries, you know, he just
• 29:35
  Speaker 6: he seeks contact where I think he's the type of
• 29:37
  Speaker 6: running back that should be trying to run to daylight.
• 29:40
  Speaker 6: He's running into people and it's like trying, like why
• 29:43
  Speaker 6: aren't you using your speed to run away from people
• 29:45
  Speaker 6: instead of doing the other things. So if they if
• 29:48
  Speaker 6: I had more confidence in Gibson and Travon Henderson, then
• 29:51
  Speaker 6: it would be an easy choice to bench for Mandre.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: I saw some of the sending me yesterday like they
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: need to unleash Travon Henderson.
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: And two points keep reading it.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: First one is that Remandra Stevenson leads the team with
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: thirty two touches, trading on second with thirty, so he's
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: got two off of most touches on the whole offense
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: and everything. Evan just said again, going back to feeling,
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: you give one impression of a guy in training camp
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: and then it kind of changes. You know, I thought
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: he's electric, he's amazing in space, no one's going to
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: touch him.
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: And then we get to the games and he's very linear.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: He doesn't really have a jump step, move, slide to
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: the right, make guy miss.
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: He kind of lowers the shoulder and tries to go
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: right through guys.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: You said, I think Paul in the press box, this
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: is why he had some injury issues. I feel like
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: he's still a rookie, he's still developing. We need to
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: have the same thoughts with him as we do with
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: Will Campbell, where yeah, there's some good and some bad
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: and we just have to live with some of that
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: right now.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: But I don't know what.
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: It means to unleash trading on him.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: I've read it several times. I agree with you, Mike,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: and I think sometimes, you know, you have that splash
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: in the summer and he returns the opening kick of
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: the first preseason game and everybody's like, wow, you know,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: I can't wait, and then it's not that it's not
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: that easy. I think Evan talked about like the game
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: moving a little fast. I have not lost any faith
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: or excitement or optimism for Traveon Henderson. But I don't
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: and I've said this all summer. I don't think he's
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: in every down back. I don't think he will be
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: in every down back. Now, maybe he will be, maybe
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: he'll be like Jamiir Gibbs where he sort of starts
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: off in this secondary role and then emerges as more
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: than that. I don't think that he will. Because of
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: his size. Yeah, Now he's not that much different in
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: size to Gibbs.
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: Is he really? I was just wondering that.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: But he looks small, but Gibbs, Yeah, I don't think
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: there's a huge difference in their size, you know, as
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: John Gruden would say, and I bet if you look
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: that up the fast or back it up John grudinism.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: But when he was the every down guy at Ohio State,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: he broke down. And that's why they went out and
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: spent all that money on Quinn Shawn Judkins. I know
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: that sounds silly college, but that's the way it is,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: and that's the modern game. And Judkins sort of handled
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: it between the tackle stuff and allowed Henderson to be
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: more productive than he had been with fewer touches because
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: he's so electric in space. And I still think that
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: he has that potential. He brings that potential for the offense.
• 32:18
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I just I would like to see him just
• 32:21
  Speaker 6: paste the runs out a little bit better. Like he
• 32:23
  Speaker 6: is all gas, no breaks right now, where like he's
• 32:26
  Speaker 6: he doesn't really let things develop in front of him.
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: He just goes one hundred.
• 32:31
  Speaker 6: Percent right into the line of scrimmage. And a big
• 32:33
  Speaker 6: part of playing running back is like when to let
• 32:36
  Speaker 6: off the gas pedal and when to go down on
• 32:38
  Speaker 6: the gas pedal, and that that's something that he can
• 32:42
  Speaker 6: learn hopefully. Yeah, like that, that's too much diability, too
• 32:47
  Speaker 6: much the kind of tempo runs and know when you
• 32:49
  Speaker 6: can be patient and know when to slow play it
• 32:51
  Speaker 6: and then when that.
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: Hole opens you hit it. Like that.
• 32:55
  Speaker 6: That's the type of things that that really make great
• 32:57
  Speaker 6: running back.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: All right, defense better, we got to get Gonzo back. Yeah,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: but better this week? Defense the best out of the
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: three games.
• 33:06
  Speaker 10: Yep.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Now the worst offense you played in the three games too,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: but better? Yeah, yep. They the team in the game
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: with all those turnovers. I mean it's a little I
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: mean I know that they didn't necessarily get put in
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: a lot of bad spots, Like two of the fumbles
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: came in the end zone. One of them came at
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: the end of the half, so there's not even a
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: possession that follows it. They did allow fourteen points off
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: of the four turn let's count the four turnovers because
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: one of them ended the half. But they were better
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: in this game. I thought against the run, I thought
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: some of the changes that Evan and Mike talked about
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: about the five man lines, yeah, you know, I think
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: the subtle changes in personnel here and there, hellis out
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: gibbons in. I thought they were they were pretty physical
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: in the up front and the run game. They really
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: were physical. Yeah, And I will say that like it
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: was the best performance, but I wouldn't say this was
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: a great performance defensive. Now, again, this is the second
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: time in three weeks you allow an opening drive touchdown. Yeah.
• 34:08
  Speaker 9: The game plans out of the shoot have not been Yeah.
• 34:11
  Speaker 6: Great, the adjustments have been really good, and which is promising.
• 34:15
  Speaker 6: I give them a lot of credit for that. But
• 34:18
  Speaker 6: this week, you know, they opened in two high safety
• 34:22
  Speaker 6: with three corner Nickel and the Steelers just ran him
• 34:25
  Speaker 6: over on the opening drive. I mean it was not
• 34:27
  Speaker 6: overly competitive on the opening drive on the ground, and
• 34:31
  Speaker 6: then eventually, you know, they put Dugger in. They went
• 34:33
  Speaker 6: three safety and they put Dugger in, and then they
• 34:36
  Speaker 6: put a little bit more Tonga, who I think Tongo
• 34:39
  Speaker 6: was underrated, Yeah, a little bit more. And then in
• 34:41
  Speaker 6: the second half Jack Gibbons played over Ellis. But like
• 34:44
  Speaker 6: they got there eventually, But the start was Jalen Warren
• 34:49
  Speaker 6: right down your throats, all the way down the field.
• 34:50
  Speaker 6: I think it was six out of the first eight
• 34:52
  Speaker 6: plays for the Steelers were run plays, and they ran
• 34:55
  Speaker 6: it right down the Patriots throat. So I don't know
• 34:58
  Speaker 6: why in this game with Rogers. I guess it was
• 35:01
  Speaker 6: out of respect for Rogers, I suppose, but like you
• 35:04
  Speaker 6: open in light personnel and then you empty the box
• 35:08
  Speaker 6: and you just kind of let him run it down
• 35:10
  Speaker 6: your throat.
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: It was weird.
• 35:11
  Speaker 6: Now they adjusted and settled down, but can't get down
• 35:15
  Speaker 6: fourteen to nothing. Yeah, but you know, it's tough to
• 35:17
  Speaker 6: play like that.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: No splain was the splaining that you kind of thought
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: you were going to get wasn't perfect, but you know,
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: nice interception, good zone awareness on that.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was better there.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: You know, I thought the I mean Ellis going back
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: missed a couple of tackles, I mean tackles that he
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: probably should have made. I think that I think that
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: was a curious move to me in the offseason anyway,
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: Like he we've talked about that.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: I just wonder if Tavia would be in that spot.
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: Just going to say that, I wonder if Tavia can
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: can offer them at least at least a third option
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: to give them some size. I think Gibbons is kind
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: of what he is, He's kind of what Ellis is.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: I think those guys are, you know, good hard playing
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: special teamers, but you know, I don't know if they
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: have the instincts and the tackling ability to do what
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: these guys are going to ask them. And the last
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: part I point, I just make his outs Austin getting
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: kind of yanked after another.
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: They're tough outing from him.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: Really had a good summer again, going back to impressions
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: you have in the summer. In three games in you
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: feel like they've been turned upside down. Not a great
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: start for him, and I think that's been a little
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: bit part of their pass struggles. Charles Woods comes in.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: We'll see how those things developed this week.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: But you know, that's what happens when you lose your
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: best player. It's a domino of a trickle effect up
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: and Austin's probably not in a role.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: And that's what I wonder fred Gonzo comes back, and
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: then maybe Austin plays a little on the slot like
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: I started to sehim towards the end of the summer.
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: Maybe that helps everybody, and you know, Marcus Jones.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: And in this game, it didn't kill them because I
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: don't think it's an overly productive passing game with Rogers.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Rogers came exactly as advertise.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Bengals with their receivers and now you're in trouble, you know,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: but those guys.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: But the way the game Rogers just couldn't like you
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: still saw like his ability to throw the two touchdown
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: passes were, especially the last one, which unbelievable. But there's
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: so much like any time they didn't have a tremendous
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: amount of pressure on him in this game, but anytime
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: they got near him, it was just like, well, that's
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: the thing.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: You didn't have the pressure, but he thought you you know,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: like the way he just throws off his back.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Foot, and they had some like I'm not you know,
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: I thought Landry and Chase on you know, you know,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: showed up a little bit. I mean, I know they
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: didn't have any sacks per se, but they I think
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: they affected him on the pick. I think Chason affected
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: him on that throat. He was getting the ball out
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: quick a lot too. I mean you thought about that.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think the touchdown throw was like under
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: like one point.
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: I mean, it just caught him, you know, I mean
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: it was great play.
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: But I would say those guys have been really fun
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: for me defense guy, getting to watch Mill Williams and
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: Herold Landry this year. I just think those guys are
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: exactly as advertised, you know, not a statistically productive day
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: for Milton Williams, but he you can just tell.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: I noticed that he's a problem.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: I noticed him a little bit, I think, I think,
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: and I think you wrote in your further view that
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: get a little more double teams to you know, maybe
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: that then Lousen's bar one and they're showing up in
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: the run game, which well that's one of the biggest things.
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: I mean, what do you think about that. I mean,
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: they have a lot one hundred yard rush yet and
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: I like I hesitate to be like.
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: They have a great run defense, but I think we
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: all really yes, very surprising.
• 38:11
  Speaker 6: I mean last week wasn't as good, but for the
• 38:13
  Speaker 6: first three weeks of the season, they're number one in
• 38:15
  Speaker 6: the league and run stop win Right, they have one
• 38:17
  Speaker 6: of the best run defenses in the NFL statistically. Now
• 38:20
  Speaker 6: it's it's a little boomer bust because of how aggressive
• 38:23
  Speaker 6: they are against the run. So they're like back dooring
• 38:26
  Speaker 6: a lot of blocks and things like that and kind
• 38:28
  Speaker 6: of just flying up the field so if you miss them,
• 38:31
  Speaker 6: you know, I.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Just felt that was going to be a problem heading in.
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: I thought it was a little.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Undersized, and it really it really hasn't been to your
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: point of when it has been a problem, they've been
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: able to show that they have the ability to adjust.
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 38:43
  Speaker 6: I saw that the running game early on in the
• 38:46
  Speaker 6: game on the first couple of drives, Like, to me,
• 38:48
  Speaker 6: that was coaching, like, why are you playing two high safeties?
• 38:51
  Speaker 9: This is not m VP Aaron Rodgers.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: And I'm gonna pick That kind of happened in all
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: three games where there was some initial success on the
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: ground and then and they just made a couple of
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: changes and that was it. Yeah, Now it took longer
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: to Evans Point in Miami. It didn't happen until the
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: second half. But the Raiders, it was like the first
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: three carries for Genti and then after that he got
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: completely shut down with Warren and gain Well, it was
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: the first drive and then they kind of got shut
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: down the rest of the game. E Chan had success
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: into the second half and then they shut him down
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: when the game was on the line.
• 39:24
  Speaker 11: Yeah.
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: No, the run defense has been pretty good.
• 39:26
  Speaker 6: It's cool to watch how they play run defense versus
• 39:29
  Speaker 6: how Bills, you.
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: Know, hold the wall and two gaps.
• 39:32
  Speaker 6: Now they're just there up the field, like especially the
• 39:35
  Speaker 6: edges are just flying up the field and they're making
• 39:38
  Speaker 6: plays on the other side of the line of scrimmage,
• 39:40
  Speaker 6: which I think is is good. You're getting into a
• 39:42
  Speaker 6: lot of like second and twelve's and things like that
• 39:44
  Speaker 6: because you're getting tackles for loss on first down. So
• 39:47
  Speaker 6: the defense, once they kind of figured it out that
• 39:51
  Speaker 6: Rogers stinks like Rogers, we can say it like he's done,
• 39:55
  Speaker 6: like he's watched, like he's not good anymore. Once they
• 39:57
  Speaker 6: kind of figured that out, they were like, oh wait,
• 39:59
  Speaker 6: like this guy, I don't want to sit in this
• 40:01
  Speaker 6: pocket anymore. So we're just gonna, you know, put the
• 40:03
  Speaker 6: other safety in the box and we're gonna stop the run.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: I gave one caveat to Mike on Rogers just if
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Pittsburgh somehow manages to win games and they're in it,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: I will say, like, maybe if you get to week twelve,
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: week thirteen and they're you know, right in the mix
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: of the player, maybe Rogers says, this is my last year.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: We got a chance to do something, maybe I'll start trying.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Because I'm telling you, he looks it doesn't have that
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: dog on them like you guys were, like you were
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: joking about the leveon bell, you know, the patients, Like
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Aaron Rodgers is the leve on bell of quarterbacks. Like
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: nothing to worry about here, Yeah, Like, I'm just gonna
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: with the play clock wind down. I have no urgency calls.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: I have no urgent yet one. But like he just
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: like no urgency. He gets those delay calls. They go
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: up tempo a lot. How many times did they get
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: right on the ball in the game, like no huddle quick,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: you know, and they still run the play clock down incessantly.
• 41:00
  Speaker 6: I just that's him to me, that was the most
• 41:02
  Speaker 6: frustrating part of losing this game is I really do
• 41:05
  Speaker 6: not think much of Aaron Rodgers at this point, and
• 41:08
  Speaker 6: to lose to that guy like.
• 41:09
  Speaker 9: He was nothing and you just you you gave him
• 41:13
  Speaker 9: the game.
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: I will give him his props like touchdowns.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: The game winning touchdown pass was an extended handoff. I mean,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: you couldn't he made couldn't make that any more perfect.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: And I know the other one on that drive was
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: an easy throw, but picked him apart right up the
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: middle at the little dump like almost like a skinny
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: post to a running back like I think it was
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: Warren from fifteen. I mean, he did that with his brains.
• 41:41
  Speaker 6: He's a Hall of Famer first ballot, all those types
• 41:43
  Speaker 6: of things, and not trying to be disrespectful, but.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: I am just this point.
• 41:47
  Speaker 6: It just was so frustrating because he came as exactly
• 41:51
  Speaker 6: like Paul said, he was exactly as advertised. I knew
• 41:54
  Speaker 6: that they didn't have to be afraid of Aaron Rodgers
• 41:56
  Speaker 6: and he wasn't good and they had him and they
• 41:58
  Speaker 6: just let him off the man.
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: It was, Yeah, they really.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Did it, and it's who we thought he was.
• 42:05
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and that whole team, like that whole team is mediocre.
• 42:08
  Speaker 6: Tomlin is just another nine and eight season for them,
• 42:11
  Speaker 6: and it's just like you had him.
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: You had him.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: I'll give you that. You want to talk about the
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: optimism part, which I am. I am largely on board
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: with because I think all the things that we said
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: the Patriots did wrong and you still have the ball
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: infield goal range in a tie game halfway through the
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: fourth quarter, right, So I think there's reason to sit
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: there and say, well, I can make an argument for
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: the glass being half full. I can do that. But
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: if that's not I that's no. If that's a nine
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: and eighteen, Fred, I can understand why people think the
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Patriots should be a nine and eight team or you know,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: or something like that and be in the hunt quote.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Unquote, yeah, all right, what do you think Evan and
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: I are overall optimistic?
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: Paul and do so not?
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: Still very negative.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: This is why I want to get into a semantics argument,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: because I knew you would do that. So I just
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: got finished telling you why there's a reason for optimism.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Eighty five to five pass five hundred is the hot line.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Let's go to Alex and San Diego.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: What's up Alex, Hey, guys, what's going on.
• 43:18
  Speaker 12: Yeah, I couldn't agree with you guys more. I mean
• 43:20
  Speaker 12: here with what you're saying earlier. I mean, this year
• 43:23
  Speaker 12: is already way easier to watch in the last two.
• 43:25
  Speaker 12: There's already a lot to feel good about, even if
• 43:26
  Speaker 12: we did turn it over five times. But Paul, I
• 43:30
  Speaker 12: know you love naming games, and this easily goes down
• 43:32
  Speaker 12: as so called the fumble game. But man, I don't
• 43:37
  Speaker 12: know if this was brought during the postgame show. And
• 43:39
  Speaker 12: granted it works, so we aren't really talking about it,
• 43:41
  Speaker 12: But what are you guys thoughts on going for it
• 43:43
  Speaker 12: on fourth and one from your own fifteen yard line
• 43:45
  Speaker 12: here in the second quarter. I just felt like that
• 43:47
  Speaker 12: was something like Britain didn't care for it and really
• 43:50
  Speaker 12: almost put the game out of reach.
• 43:52
  Speaker 6: So I'm glad somebody brought it up because this is
• 43:54
  Speaker 6: something that makes me happy. Okay, the Patriots are nerds
• 43:58
  Speaker 6: and I love it. The Patriots are nerds.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: The analytics favors that.
• 44:04
  Speaker 6: Analytics favored all five of their decisions to go for
• 44:07
  Speaker 6: it on fourth down in this game.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Thanks Alex.
• 44:09
  Speaker 6: And he has a Rabel. When I say he, Rabel
• 44:12
  Speaker 6: has been lockstep with the nerds. On all of his
• 44:15
  Speaker 6: fourth down decisions through three games, even like last week
• 44:19
  Speaker 6: they were going to go for it on fourth and
• 44:20
  Speaker 6: two and they got pushed back to fourth and second.
• 44:24
  Speaker 6: It was kick on fourth and seventh and go on
• 44:26
  Speaker 6: fourth and two. So he is the models are exactly
• 44:30
  Speaker 6: with stretching Rabel on all these decisions.
• 44:33
  Speaker 9: They are nerds and it is awesome.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: So you have to explain to me how the analytics
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: favors that, and I'm m say, I don't know. At
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: the time, I was like, I don't know if I
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: want to do this, you'll go forward or not go
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: So I'm being honest, I was I did not have
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: an opinion in the moment. But tell me why the
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: analytics favor is going for it on your own fifteen.
• 44:53
  Speaker 6: Well, I think most of it is that fourth and
• 44:56
  Speaker 6: one has a probably close to a nine twenty percent
• 45:00
  Speaker 6: success rate league wide, So you have to consider the
• 45:04
  Speaker 6: down and distance like it's only one yard and so
• 45:07
  Speaker 6: that's a big part of it. Like when you look
• 45:09
  Speaker 6: at a lot of these analytic models, especially when you're
• 45:12
  Speaker 6: I mean that one's way backed up, but if you're
• 45:14
  Speaker 6: over your own fifty yard line, usually they anything less
• 45:18
  Speaker 6: than fourth and two as it go, because the numbers
• 45:22
  Speaker 6: are just if you're playing the odds.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: Like field position. Absolutely, but but like.
• 45:27
  Speaker 6: When we're talking just about distance to the sticks, yeah,
• 45:30
  Speaker 6: like with anything within like one or two yards, but
• 45:32
  Speaker 6: league wide, these.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: Models take anything else into consideration in the distance.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: Because it's only one yard. But if you don't get it,
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: they only have fifteen.
• 45:41
  Speaker 9: I'm not going to do the whole like what avenge
• 45:43
  Speaker 9: of the nerds thing?
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: No, I'm not doing it.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: I'm not doing that either. I just would say I
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: want you because I know you immediately go to the models.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: I'm sitting next to you, and you know we were
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: talking about I think in the moment all three of
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: us didn't agree with it. I will say that it
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: was ballsy. But I want you to now when the
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: model says not to go for it, because I think
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: the model always says to go for well, I just
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: give an example, because it always is like a yard
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: or two in the percentages that you're going to get
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: it right.
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: Well, my question for if it was, where does the
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: model change. Is it fourth and two from your fifteen?
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: Is it fourth and three from your fifteen? Like at
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: what point? Usually too flip?
• 46:22
  Speaker 6: But I think in this case. I think in this
• 46:24
  Speaker 6: case it was really just that it was a yard.
• 46:27
  Speaker 6: But I just gave you an example last week in
• 46:30
  Speaker 6: Miami on fourth and two in Miami, on that field
• 46:34
  Speaker 6: goal decision, they were it's clear go on fourth and two.
• 46:38
  Speaker 6: When they got the fall Star penalty and it went
• 46:40
  Speaker 6: to fourth and seven, it was clear kick. So that's
• 46:42
  Speaker 6: exactly they took the offense off the field and they
• 46:45
  Speaker 6: ran Borgalis on the field on fourth and seven.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: And I would have actually gone for that fourth and seven.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: I said it last week. But yeah, on my own
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: fifteen yard line in a fourteen to seven game. I
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: don't think there's enough on these percentages that weigh the
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: risk and rewards. Like so, if I get a yard,
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: I'm still on my own sixteen yard line. If I
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: don't get the yard, which I'm sorry happens from time
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: to time. I saw Derek Henry get stuffed from the
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: one yard line three straight plays last night, arguably the
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: best short yardage back in the history of football. Right,
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: So you can get stopped, You get stopped in the
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: fifteen and handing at least three points to the other
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: team for nothing, right, Because I mean, that's a needless,
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: reckless decision because I was.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: Thinking like analytics had nothing to do with that decision.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: That was Oh no, I agree with.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: That was all.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: That was more of a feeling for the like if
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: I need to take a chance, because I you know,
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: that's how I felt, you know, I.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: Mean, I like going forward on fourth down as a
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: general rule, So I do like that change in the league.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: Very risky. Detroit last night could not possibly agree more.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: Fourth and two? Was it from there? From like midfield
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: with a seven point lead. Absolutely, I'm going to end
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: the game right here. I would do that that I
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: told you I would have gone for the fourth and seven,
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: even after the full start. I want to end the
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: game on offense, not rely on my defense apps every time. Now,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: if I'm on my own thirteen yard line, that's different.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: Like Bill's decision on his own twenty eight that year.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Fourth and two. I know he says it was one,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: but it wasn't. No, That to me is recklessly putting
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: the game in danger. Kevin Fock had that, by the way,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: if he didn't bobble it, he would have.
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: So I want to just be clear.
• 48:31
  Speaker 6: The fourth and one from the fifteen decision was very,
• 48:35
  Speaker 6: very close to a coin flip on the model, so
• 48:38
  Speaker 6: like it's ballsy.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: So that's taken by the European model.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: It was if it was fourth and one from the
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: Steelers fifteen, I'm gonna guess it would have been like
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: an eighty five percent go clear like that.
• 48:50
  Speaker 6: But like fourth and one from like that, that takes
• 48:53
  Speaker 6: some Cohona's Like.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: That's not no doubt.
• 48:55
  Speaker 6: The analytics model is not saying like this is you
• 48:58
  Speaker 6: have to go for this, this is it's that was ballsy,
• 49:01
  Speaker 6: I think so. But the other four, I mean, obviously
• 49:04
  Speaker 6: they one of the end of the game, you have
• 49:05
  Speaker 6: to but like the other three, let's call it, we're
• 49:08
  Speaker 6: all pretty distinctly clear God situations and uh vrabel stretch.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: I love you, I love it. You know.
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: Question it doesn't have to be exactly what the Lions are.
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: But I remember when they came here a few years ago,
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: when Dan Campbell first took over, and it was kind
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: of stupid the amount of fourth downs they were trying.
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: They were mocked, and probably rightly so to that extreme
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: nature that they were using it. But I also look
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: at it as Dan Campbell with a young team at
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: that point, and he's trying to say this is the
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: kind of team we're gonna be and I and that
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: to me is also an element of Rabel going for
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: it there with a young team. Look, this isn't they're
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: not going to win or lose the game or you know,
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: this isn't gonna be decided by this game or this
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: four down And because that's part of it for me too,
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: I don't think he's going to get to that stupid,
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: crazy nature that we've seen the Lions go to at times.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: But I like the fact that he's gonna put that
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: belief in his team, like everything that they killed Bill
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: for when he did in an Indy doesn't believe in
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: his defense, doesn't trust them, you know those things Like
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: I just I like I like the aggressiveness.
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: I like to see how Mike.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: Rabel's going to be to me in that situation on
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: your own fifteen. Forget about analytics. You have to have
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: the feeling, Yeah, you know, that has to be a
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: gut feeling of where the game is going, how my
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: team is performing, who I have at my disposal. To me,
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: it can't be an analytics call when you're on your
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: own fifteen.
• 50:28
  Speaker 6: I mean, I think they have to really I think
• 50:31
  Speaker 6: I think there were definitely that one in particular.
• 50:33
  Speaker 9: There definitely was a gut element for Rabel.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: There has to be.
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: But with that being said, I just.
• 50:39
  Speaker 6: I've looked at all of their fourth down decisions for
• 50:42
  Speaker 6: the first three games, and they are they are lockstep
• 50:45
  Speaker 6: with the analytics models every single decision that they.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Like that, you know what. I think league wide it's
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 50:50
  Speaker 6: Now it's getting there, But the Patriots have not been there.
• 50:54
  Speaker 6: Under Built and under Drod Mayo, they were not an
• 50:56
  Speaker 6: analytically driven team with their decision making. So this is
• 51:00
  Speaker 6: definitely different. And I think the one thing that is
• 51:03
  Speaker 6: probably more important than the actual decisions themselves is there's
• 51:08
  Speaker 6: a method to the madness. And if you're consistent with
• 51:10
  Speaker 6: the method, this is the Detroit thing. Like, if you're
• 51:12
  Speaker 6: consistent with the method, then at least you have a plan.
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: Like you were.
• 51:18
  Speaker 6: I think what coaches get into trouble is when they're
• 51:21
  Speaker 6: flying by the seat of their pants on it.
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: Get your point, and.
• 51:24
  Speaker 6: So the fact that they have a method and a
• 51:27
  Speaker 6: model and a consistent way to do things is good.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: The last thing you want is your team on the
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: field going we're going for it.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: Detroit's biggest strength is they know going in what you're
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: doing right, and it goes down to everything. It's like
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: it's third and seven. Well, I'm the offensive coordinator. I
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: know that I don't have to call a play to
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: get eight yards here because I'm going for it on
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: fourth down. I already know that. The players already know that.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: There's no confusion. Last night you watch them and again,
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: it's great when it works right. Everything looks great. The
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: little option play they ran in the goal line on
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: fourth and goal. Did you see that one little hand
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: to on ross Saint Brownie right and then he pitches
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: it out for an easy time. Those are all great
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: when they work right. You know when Lamar Jackson's running
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: a little like Zone Reid on fourth and goal from
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: the one, and they sniff it out and he ends
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: up getting tackled and worse, ends up fumbling. So the
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: one thing about going for it on fourth and goal
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: from the one, what do you say be even if
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: he gets stopped they're on the one. Yeah, no, I'm steadying.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: You fumble and you give it to them on the
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: twenty and it defeats the whole purpose.
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: I wonder what the feelings is the vibes are like
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: now in Detroit with the fourth down stuff. If the
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: team that's like you said, like they know they're going,
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: it's part of their identity. They're even more confident now
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: when they go for it. And maybe even when the
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: analytics are saying no, they're saying, so here's the problem.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: You know, and I'll let you Hey, we both come
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: from different spots. I get it. Like the model is
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: situated as such. It's just like the two point conversion chart.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: Everybody has a chart. Yep. Those percentages are born out
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: over huge sample sizes. The Detroit Lions cost themselves a
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: trip to the Super Bowl because they were slaves to
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: their numbers two years ago or whenever it was three
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: years ago. The other they lost a game that they
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: absolutely had no business losing in San Francisco because they
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: absolutely refused to kick field goals. So you can have
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: a chart and you can be right on your percentages.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: That's small consolation. When the one time I needed to
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: pick up the yard, I didn't, and instead of being
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: up seventeen in the second half of the NFC Championship game,
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: I leave the door open and I end up losing.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: Like that's those are the ones I don't think Rabel
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: would do because I think if a Fred's thing that
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: he would, common sense might prevail on his head a
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: little bit faster. I don't think he's a slave to
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: it as necessarily as as much as sometimes the Lions are.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: But I think the one thing I would also say
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: about the Lions thing is that they now know that
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: they have to have like a bunch of fourth and
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: one and fourth and two plays because they're going to
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: go for it.
• 54:10
  Speaker 6: So now they have all these great play designs that
• 54:14
  Speaker 6: they can pull out in these situations like the one
• 54:16
  Speaker 6: that Paul brought up last night. So now not only
• 54:18
  Speaker 6: are they going, but they also have all these great.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you brought that up for it. The
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: personnel was part of it too, Yeah, like on the Lions,
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: I have really good skill position guys, I have an
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: unbelievable offensive line that I'm relying on blacks when don't
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: have that right now.
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: The analytics, like they said like they did, are born
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: over a huge data set with a huge amount of
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: different personnel. I as a coach, you have to look
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: at my personnel and how does it apply the aver
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: it worked?
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: You just finger wagged me in the first fifteen minutes
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: of the show not to be results driven.
• 54:55
  Speaker 4: That's true. I did so.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: Don't be results driven? All right, is it the choice
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: or not? Like, I'm sorry, that's a red go We're going.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: That's a reckless thing to do. That could have completely
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: changed the game. Well if Anthony go ahead with the
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: fourth down.
• 55:16
  Speaker 10: But yeah, people, hey.
• 55:20
  Speaker 11: Hey, uh so uh first and foremost got a couple
• 55:23
  Speaker 11: of high life they're not football related, but listen, the
• 55:27
  Speaker 11: lobster roles that you guys have out there, that's gonna
• 55:30
  Speaker 11: be some stuff that you guys are probably used to.
• 55:32
  Speaker 11: But man, you don't know what you don't know. Lost
• 55:35
  Speaker 11: Garrel was life changing. And I've had lost rolls here
• 55:38
  Speaker 11: and you know, we're on the water. You guys see
• 55:40
  Speaker 11: people like at type Place Market, they're throwing the tension.
• 55:42
  Speaker 11: I think we're more known for like the breakwater fish,
• 55:44
  Speaker 11: and you guys are maybe known for your shale fish,
• 55:46
  Speaker 11: like you know, the clams and lobster and and but man,
• 55:51
  Speaker 11: just unbelievable.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 55:53
  Speaker 11: Secondly, the uh j Lette Stadium. Man, wow, I mean again,
• 55:59
  Speaker 11: I've been to lumit and again, you don't know what
• 56:00
  Speaker 11: you don't know so I'm thinking that's that's the perfectly
• 56:02
  Speaker 11: fun that's what football fields are or stadiums are. No, man,
• 56:07
  Speaker 11: you guys, I'm talking about just the shopping centers and
• 56:10
  Speaker 11: the Hall of Fame and just oh my, I'm like,
• 56:14
  Speaker 11: this is what is supposed to be, like unbelievable.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: And then why did you enjoyed yourself?
• 56:21
  Speaker 11: What a trip? What a bread And it's funny too
• 56:23
  Speaker 11: because you know, I understand now while why they why
• 56:27
  Speaker 11: mister Crafton and stadium owners, team owners are going to
• 56:30
  Speaker 11: make these investments because you got here. I am a
• 56:33
  Speaker 11: guy who put this trip off for years because it
• 56:34
  Speaker 11: costs money to fly across the country and go to game.
• 56:37
  Speaker 11: But now I'm like, I talked to my wife.
• 56:39
  Speaker 13: I said, Bay, we.
• 56:39
  Speaker 11: Got to go back next year. I'm going to make
• 56:41
  Speaker 11: to the annual thig just like you see, it's like
• 56:43
  Speaker 11: this isn't like I gotta come back. So and then
• 56:46
  Speaker 11: as far as the oh, the statue, heavan the details,
• 56:49
  Speaker 11: I mean, you're the details of close. I mean, it
• 56:53
  Speaker 11: was just hiss ridiculous. I almost want to decry man
• 56:56
  Speaker 11: like that for millions of us at the cop it
• 57:00
  Speaker 11: was just like just ridiculous. And then Lastly, football wise,
• 57:04
  Speaker 11: I can't really add anything. I was anxious to listen
• 57:06
  Speaker 11: to the postgame show, and pretty much it's nice to
• 57:10
  Speaker 11: sit here like what I think and then kind of
• 57:12
  Speaker 11: see what if you got kind of agree or solid differently,
• 57:14
  Speaker 11: And it's easy for me as a fan to say, man,
• 57:16
  Speaker 11: it felt like we beat ourselves, but then here the
• 57:18
  Speaker 11: postgame you got really got. I mean they take this.
• 57:20
  Speaker 11: Patricks pretty much beat themselves. You can't well, you can't
• 57:23
  Speaker 11: turn the ball over five times, and it rarely ever happened.
• 57:25
  Speaker 11: Unfortunately the one time I was in town they did it.
• 57:28
  Speaker 11: But hey, hey, I appreciate you.
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: Guys that you'll be back all right, Anthony, you got
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: a bright future with the Chamber of Commerce, I tell you.
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: I should say fred I. Also I met two Patriots unfiltered.
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: Fans, one on Friday and one on Saturday, just before
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: the ceremony.
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: Nice fun. So that we're around here.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: They'll show, you know, Mike, there's a lot more than.
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: Tens of the show. Well, these were the only two
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: that happened to be around, but they were very excited.
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: H to run into run into me and then wanted
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: to say hello everybody.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: So someone in South Carolina. That wanted me to ask
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: you why you want me to leave and go and
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: coach high school sports? Because I like seeing people happy.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: I just thought it was funny. I'm in South Carolina, goes,
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: why does Fred want you to leave?
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: All right, We're gonna take a break. I'm gonna eat
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: when we come back. More calls it emails here on
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: Patriots Unfiltered Game.
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  Speaker 7: After a night to ruminate on things and not to
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  Speaker 15: Well, we've got to continue to practice the crap out
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  Speaker 10: We also have to do a better job of.
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  Speaker 15: Protecting said person with the ball, whether that's the quarterback,
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  Speaker 15: work it. But then also, you know, maybe it's not
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 15: so much the person that you see, it's the one
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 15: you don't see. And there was a few opportunities that
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 15: we can show them here.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 10: In a little bit of that.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 15: And yes, the person is responsible for taking care of
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 15: the football, but again the other people are also have
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 15: a critical job in ball security, like understanding.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: The production can be a result of what the defense
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 4: gives you. What can your receiver group do to do
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: more productives going forward?
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 10: Well, I just think keep doing what they've been doing.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 15: Uh, there's opportunities and we just have to be able
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 15: to find them. You know, when things are there, just again,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 15: make the plays that you're supposed to make.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 10: You could see that there's opportunities.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 15: And you know, whether that's an incut by Kashan on
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 15: a third and long or and we'd breaking routes by
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 15: by Digs.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 10: Those those are all positive things.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 15: And again it's you can track stats, and we can
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 15: track wins or separation and man coverage and match.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 10: Again, there's one football.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 15: And uh, you know when when the opportunities are there,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 15: just to continue to make them and then how well
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 15: they play with the football without the football. And I
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 15: think it's a good example of of of Digsy there
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 15: helping Remandre spring him for a big play something that
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 15: didn't happen in Miami and was able to come back
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 15: and adjust and take the coaching points and get the
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 15: get the look exactly how he needed it, and he'll
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 15: help them spring for for an explosive gain. So that
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 15: those are all positive things. And I know as receivers,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 15: they want to catch touchdowns, they want to catch the ball.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 15: But you know, we just got to continue to to
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 15: spread the ball around and take it where take take
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 15: the football where it's supposed to go when it's supposed to.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 10: Go there, and timing and rhythm and ball placement.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 16: Like you mentioned last night, how you guys are gonna
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 16: need Remandre this season. How do you balance holding someone
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 16: accountable and and valuing the message that that might send
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 16: to your team versus making sure you still have a
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 16: guy on board in rhythm, et cetera when you do
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 16: feel like you need him with down line.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 15: Yeah, I mean we're we're gonna need him, We're gonna
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 15: need everybody. And uh, he's got got talent, skill set.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 15: It's a good protector, and we trust them in protection
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 15: and uh, you.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 10: Know, we'll we'll get uh, we'll get through this.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 15: And I think a lot of it is just the
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 15: consistency and continuing to build confidence.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 10: But you have to go out there and do it.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 15: How I manage that from an accountability standpoint, I would
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 15: say as of now, you know, I mean, I don't
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 15: know what that will look like later on the week.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 15: As far as how we distribute the reps you.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: Did just to follow quickly.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 16: I remember it was your introductory press coffee you talked
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 16: about accountability and how you you kind of need to
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 16: know guys before.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 12: You can more an accountable because you don't want.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: There to be pushed back.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 10: No, I mean I don't know if Yeah, I mean
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 10: I think you get.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 15: To to hold them accountable right now.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, I mean I do.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 15: But you know, I mean I also got to try
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 15: to to balance you know, winning football games and gaining
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 15: yards and scoring points and you know, all all those things.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 10: Right, so there's a.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 15: You know, we just we just got to get fixed.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 15: And I know there's no easy fix and the only
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 15: thing I know how to do is is work, and
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 15: we'll work at it. And if I feel like or
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 15: we feel like that it's you know, in the best
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 15: interest to them at those opportunities, then then we'll have
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 15: to do that part of that, right, you.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: Know, listening to the Hall of Fame speeches here and
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: Julian say, this guy believed in me and you know
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: when I was down and things like that, how important
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: is that?
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 10: Well?
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 15: We you know, we believe in them where they wouldn't
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 15: be here we believe in them, each and every one
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 15: of them, and again just putting them into positions that
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 15: they feel comfortable and that there's trust and they have
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 15: confidence to to do their job. And then as a
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 15: professional athlete like we, you know, you have to be
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 15: willing to to risk something.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 10: To get something out of it. I think that it's
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 10: easy to you know, sometimes second guess yourself.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 15: So you know, Andre's I'm sure very aware of fumbling,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 15: and Antonio and Drake everybody that fumble, and so you know,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 15: we'll have to, uh, you'll come back with a resolve
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 15: to go and what happens on one week and doesn't
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 15: necessarily guarantee it's going to happen the next week and
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 15: it can't and I'm positive that it.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: Won't relatively early in the week. But do you interestedly
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: having Torell back with you guys at kind.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 17: Of this weekend.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 15: Uh, we'll kind of see where things are here going
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 15: forward here in the next couple of days.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 10: But I just he's you know, Terrell's around.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 15: We just you know, got to make sure that we're
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 15: trying to build some consistency with with how we do things.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: On his fumble that he was trying to make a
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: play to trading on Henderson.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 8: I believe against the Raiders he made a similar player.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 10: Who was getting taken down and flipped it out.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: How do you walk that line and where is the
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: line with a young quarterback?
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 15: Well, I mean, I think we've heard it here before,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 15: but you know, everybody's trying to make a play. We
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 15: just need to make a good, good place and not
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 15: putting the ball at risk and understanding that there's a
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 15: timing element to protection and that we certainly don't have
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 15: all day based on the amount of people that we
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 15: keep in and protection. So I think that that's critical
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 15: that once it gets past the first or second read
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 15: that we're going to have to be ready to get
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 15: rid of the football or.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 10: You know, make sure that we're securing it at the
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 10: end of the play.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 15: Jack Gibbons and Charles Woods say that you can be
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 15: held up with the increased opportunities. Well, we played good
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 15: defense and got stops when they were in there.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 10: I think they were okay, you know, so.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 15: You know we were going to rotate, and when we rotated,
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 15: we started I don't think it was just those two players,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 15: you know, solely, but we started playing good defense and
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 15: settling down, So I think, you know, we just stuck with.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: It and now great moments in history. Does that make
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: any sense? I think the Patriots almost stole one. They
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: were in position to steal the game. They're on the
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: twenty five yard line, up three with five minutes. We've
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: got to put that game. Well, I would say that
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: they were better.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: But when you dropped the ball five six times, does
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: that make you the better team?
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it means you were better. You just you just
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: didn't execute. So when you dropped the ball makes you better? Yeah?
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: They were they. I mean, these guys just told you
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: how open these guys were. You were lucky to know.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: But if you dropped the ball, you dropped the ball.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: That's that's a lack of execution.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 4: Right, he would have four hundred.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: If you're better, you're more talented than the other team. Yes,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: you did what you wanted to do more than they
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: did what they wanted to do. I think they wanted
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: to catch the ball. Did you ever see anybody so
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: maddening as this?
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 18: Right?
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: Like, right, I know they wanted to make the field
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: goal to Fred, but the other guy blocked it. That's
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: a bad that's bad execution exactly, right. So what like,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: what are we doing? That's another great moment from.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: All right A five to five past five hundred is
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: the Hotline podcast at Patriots dot com is the email address,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: Emails flying in, calls are stacked up. V in Pittsburgh
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: writes in can you play? Talk about what's going on
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: with Pop Douglas? Why is there such a disconnect with
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: him and Drake? There was all this hope coming into
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: the season that I'll have a bigger part of the offense,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: will be a reliable target. Drake and him just can't
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: seem to get on the same page.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: What are you seeing?
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 4: Drake and him just can't seem to get on the
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: same page.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm seeing.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: Uh, it's and again this is another example of a
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 3: guy who I thought had a pretty good summer, especially early.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: I think maybe he was a little quiet later in
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: the summer. But thought Douglas had a good summer. I
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: thought he was really settling into this role in this
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: new offense, and it just hasn't really translated. I did
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 3: think he was going to play more in this game,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: which you know he did with more man coverage from Pittsburgh,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: but you know, it's talking to Evan The frustrating.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 4: Thing is you look at some.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: Of the separation stats and he's like the only guy
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: who has significant separation of all the receivers, but he's
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: not in the right spot.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 4: Sometimes Drake isn't seeing him. Sometimes sometimes when we talked.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: About a lot of road, you know, I really do's
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of bad luck involving those two guys.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 6: It's so bizarre, Like he has a seventeen yard catch
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 6: wiped out with a penalty the illegal man downfield. Then
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 6: he's wide open on the swing pass and the right
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 6: flat and both guys sharing some of the blame I
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 6: think on that play because the short arm throw, like Drake,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 6: Drake short arms it, but Pop also just keeps expanding
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 6: into the sideline, so he just keeps getting further and
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 6: further away from Drake. As the ball is being thrown
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 6: to him, he's just backpedaling like into space. And so
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 6: that one could have been I don't know, he could
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 6: still he still could be running like that could be
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 6: a forty yard fifty yard play. And then he's crossing
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 6: over the middle of the field late in the game
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 6: and he's wide open again and Drake throws it behind him.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 6: Like these are just little things that they just I
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 6: don't know if it's that Pop isn't in the right
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 6: spots or you know, it's just bad luck and Drake
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 6: just has some bad throws and it happens to be
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 6: the ones when he's targeting Pop. I don't know what
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 6: the case may be. But the one thing just from
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 6: Pop's perspective that I just have kind of thought about
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 6: is like I just I still I still wish his
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 6: field awareness in the game sense was better, and I
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 6: think that there's times when he's just making things harder
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 6: than they need to be because he's just not one
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 6: hundred percent on the details. He's talented, he gets open,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 6: he's dynamic runner, but the details just don't seem to
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 6: fully be there for him. Whereas you know, we're talking
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 6: off the air, like Edelman's in the Patriots Hall of
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 6: Fame because of the details, because he knew where to be,
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 6: when to be there, how many you need, and that's
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 6: why he has a red jacket Like that's that can
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 6: be the difference for.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 9: A lot of guys.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: I read I read that one email, but there were
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: a lot of emails that we got about Pop. I
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: don't want to read them all. They're all kind of
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: the same. But you mentioned that the details and when
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: you look at that binky that Brady had had all,
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: you know, throughout his career, whether it was Troy Brown
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: or Wes Welker or Julian Edelman, all three of those guys.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: The one thing I think they all have in common
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: is their football IQ. They were just so smart about
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: the awareness of what's the situation. You know, what's the
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: defense look like? What do I need to get that
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: first down? You know, even when I don't catch it,
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: what do I do? Troy Brown against San Diego knocking
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: that ball away? Just the awareness of what the situation
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: is and what needs to get done. I don't know
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: if Pop has it or not yet it's too early,
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: but those three guys had it, and I'm wondering at
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: some point do they want to see if Chisholm has
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: it that type of awareness, because he certainly doesn't have
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: the athletic ability of Pop Douglas.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 3: I was just going to say, the only thing I
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: might push back on is it too early. I mean,
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 3: this is what your three for ever, you know, kind
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 3: of the same mistakes. I just I think the two
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 3: quotes I remember Draking the summer asking him about what
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: was going well with Pop, and he said, you know,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 3: he Pop, he's lining up in the right place, He's
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: getting the right spots. Really highlighted the mental aspect of
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: and I also remember last year kind of surprising to
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: me that Jacobe Brissett saying I have to get used
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: to throwing to a player of his size, and that
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: was never anything that I really clocked. I mean, you
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: mentioned Wes Welker coming through here. Small guy never really
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 3: seemed an issue. Of course that's Brady, but generally across
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: the league, I never really thought about smaller receivers, some
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: quarterbacks maybe having a little bit of a hard time
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 3: figuring out where they're catching.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of stuff, and I started off by saying,
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: I think there's been a lot of bad luck, and
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: I do agree with that, and I think Evan pointed
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: out a couple of plays that if you just had
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: those two plays, one of them count and the other
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: one complete, you know, let's just call it a twenty
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: yard game. It may have been more than that. Mike
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: and I actually looked at this play yesterday, Evan, that
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: little swing pass. At the time of the throw, there
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: was nobody even on the other side of the hash marks,
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: and at the time that he would have caught it,
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: there was no one on the other side of the numbers,
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: and there was really only one guy there, Peppers yea,
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: And that would have been a lot of green for
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: him to have to try to navigate with a pretty
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: slippery guy in the open field. We might look at
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: it a little bit differently had those two plays gone
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: the other way. That said the instinct stuff that Fred's
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: talking about and that you guys are, that's that's relevant.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: And on fourth down, I applaud Drake May for saying
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: I wish I had gone over that we need to
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: get a yard and this and that that's great leadership.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: That's great leadership, But that should not have to be
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: said to Mario. Douglas needs to get that first down, period,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: like he just he needs to be able to catch
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: that pass. I hated the play call. I hated, you know,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: asking a guy to catch it and get up field
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: to get a first down on fourth and one. But
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: as it was like this he had to do with,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: there's no reason for him. Now there's still shots of
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: extremely decisive.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 4: I still don't think it's crazy easy that.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: No, it's not because he wasn't going that direction. Now,
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: everybody just to just fall down, but he intentionally gave
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: ground you're looking to beat. It's exactly what Rabel said, Evan,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: and I would talk to you, you know, like put your
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: foot in the ground and knife through the two defenders
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: and make sure you get the first down. Don't try
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: to dip around one of the defenders to potentially make
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: a big play. You can't do that. He needs to
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: get that needed to be a first down one hundred
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: times out of one hundred, and he didn't get the
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: first down. So like, I'm not absolving to Mario Douglas
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: of responsibility, but I do think there's a variety of
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: things going wrong when it comes to him, and it's
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: not all his faults.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 3: And to your point, even you said the big play,
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: if he made the big play, we might look at
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 3: things different, even that one one yard little play. If
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 3: he knife through, picked up the first down, kept the
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 3: chains moving, and maybe said like.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: Well, if he ends up with five, so that's three catches, Well, no,
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: that's two more catches in more yards, right, you look
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: at it much differently, especially just in the key even
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: how about the little play that one of the catches
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: that he did make that he sort of stopped slid
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: his knee comes down. That was a great little move
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: and the guy ended up having his hand on him
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: when his knee was still down, so he was down
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: by contact. But it shows you sort of the potential
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: that he has. You go for the offense, I see,
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: But I got to tell you, I'm not sure he's
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: going to have it, Frank, because I think he might
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: be on the way out. I think you got you
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: know that the Chisen Brigade, I think is probably at
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: some point going to get their wish. So just although
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: I would go with Diggs, I think dig should be
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: in that role more. I would give him more opportunities.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 4: So just two things.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 6: One, on the fourth down play, they send double edge pressure.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 6: They blitzed, and so he's hot, right, so like he's
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 6: got to throw the ball. And I actually thought that
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 6: it was a pretty good answer for the pressure that
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 6: they got. You know, I get like wanting to throw
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 6: the ball past the sticks, but in that situation, I
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 6: got sort of they were running kind of like like
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 6: a little stick to the field side, and they had
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 6: Digs running like an inside hook. And then Pop was
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 6: going to run the flat and uh and Pop. The
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 6: weirdest part about the play is that Pop had the
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 6: wherewithal to stop and turn for the ball, knew he
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 6: was hot and knew that the blitz was coming.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 9: I think Diggs pointed it at it and yelled.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 4: Right, but he knew that blitz.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, he knew Ramsey was blitzing, and so he
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 6: knew he was getting the ball.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 9: And then he got it and he just froze.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 6: And it was just very odd that he kind of
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 6: did the right thing but then didn't at the same time.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 6: And that part of it was.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: To your point, And I'm not going to get into
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: an ex's nose thing, because I'm not. When they're coming
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: off the edge like that and you know they're coming,
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: I just see so many times they have the little
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: guy just playing leak out into the flat behind one
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: of those blitzers. You just loft it over the oncome,
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: you know, in this case Jalen and there's no one there,
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: and even but you don't it might be a big play.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: But even if it's a three yard game, it's beyond
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: the sticks. Yeah, you know, if they have someone there
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: to make the tackle, you have the first thing.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 6: That's why I wanted to just because a lot of
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 6: I know that a lot of people agree with you.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 6: So they had a trapped corner on that side of
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 6: the field that was layered like to protect against what
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 6: you're talking about. So that's why the ball went underneath,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 6: and you know, the corner made a really good play
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 6: to have eyes.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: And when they didn't get that play, the game was over.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: But didn't you get the Oh, come on, it can't
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: be over. Now, give us one more chance.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 4: That's the worst.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 3: It just out like you're like, you got all that
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 3: emotional like I think we would fourth down and no,
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 3: it's over.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 13: That's it.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 6: I just wonder if you know, with the Chishm thing,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 6: like I think Pop is a much more athletic and
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 6: more dynamic player than aften Chisholm.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 9: But they might just need a yard.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 6: They might just need the guy that's just gonna catch
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 6: the ball and it's going to charge forward and split two.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: Guys and be honest with you.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 6: I just don't know if that is his that's even
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 6: his game, you know, Like so it just I don't
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 6: think that chism is going to cure everything and that
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 6: that's like the answer and then all of a sudden
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 6: chism is gonna have this like Julian Edelman arc where
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 6: he's just like the guy. Now, Like, I don't think
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 6: that that's necessarily going to be the case, but he
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 6: might just be a little bit more gritty and like
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 6: tougher in those types of moments in terms of like
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 6: the physical aspect of it. And we saw that in
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 6: the preseason and he's breaking tackles and things like that.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: But that's that's okay. Deshaun's in Virginia on the hotline.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: What's up to Shawn? All Right?
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 13: I want to say that, uh this because they have
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 13: to be a mistake prone I think we got two
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 13: you guys mistake prone on the team. I think it's
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 13: uh cause for the firm and you might have to
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 13: make the tough decisions moving forward because he's bad enough.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 13: They already have a quarterback that makes enough mistake and
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 13: you got guys like uh Steers that constant fumbles the ball.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 13: Uh it puts the team uh at in a horror
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 13: place like it deflicts the team that kills the flow,
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 13: kills the energy and everything. You don't need stuff like that.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 13: And then also when you look at the office I
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 13: don't think he'sustainable for all the reason why, for all
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 13: the reason we are reasons that you got just said,
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 13: as far as like not having vertical guy nam of
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 13: player down the field, you know, uh, you know, it's
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 13: no explosion, So you can't keep running, get up the
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 13: victory and expect that it's gonna be steth on the
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 13: field knowing that the play now when it comes to
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 13: pop Douglas even needs not blaming him because every time
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 13: when Brick May throws in the ball, he tells him, So,
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 13: who's that really on? That's all we have to say.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, different on every one. Every way I didn't, well,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: he's what I think you said, and I would say
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: someplace it's on Mario Douglas, some plays it's on Drake Mays.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: Someplaces it's on both of them.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 4: Goes back to the first. This is something going on
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 4: with that connection. They don't have that.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 3: That's chemistry that I think a lot of people just
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 3: assume would come naturally to the slot position in the
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 3: Josh McDaniels offense that.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: We've had guys in the past, Paul on this team
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: where we say, man, it just seems like they make
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: the easy ones look hard, and the hard ones look impossible,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: you know. I don't know. Brandon Lloyd was one of
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: those flying through the something every throw and every catch
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: was like, did it really need to have to be
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: that hard?
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Nikhil Harry kind of fell out.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 6: The thing is in the catch radius. I mean, I've
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 6: been on this for a while.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: That's that's big.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 6: And the second level crosser that Drake almost through a
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 6: pick on it's in front of him, and like it's
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 6: not the best throw, but it's also a five foot
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 6: seven guy that he's targeting like fifteen yards down the field.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 6: Like if that's you know, Digs or Booty or Hollins
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 6: and they have you know, they might get their hand
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 6: on that the pass and at least it's knocked down
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 6: and not thrown directly to the safety behind him. And
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 6: it's just when you watch it too from the overhead,
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 6: like you just see seeing this little five 't seven
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 6: guy like running down the field and you're like, this
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 6: is a hard target to hit, yeah, for a quarterback,
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 6: especially if it's in tight spaces, And I just wonder
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 6: if that is it for Drake is maybe like the
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 6: men to understanding that.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's in the same I mean, Booty's not
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 3: the biggest guy in the world, but seems like Drake
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 3: has plenty of confidence. You know, that one diggy through
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 3: to him on that third down and probably maybe the
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 3: best story that he had in the game.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 4: That's what I like about.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 3: You know, we haven't seen enough of Booty and Dicks,
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 3: but they both have come through with some big plays
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 3: like digs with the third down conversions. He hasn't had
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 3: a high amount of volume, but I feel like I'm
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 3: growing to trust him in key situations, even Booty to
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 3: that extent, you know, going down the field, catching the
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 3: ball on the end zone, making tough plays like you know,
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 3: I just haven't earn that trust with Poppers.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: Startually get to the point where you're wondering about Booty.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: You know why he isn't being targeted a little bit
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: more often because of what you're talking about. The first game,
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: obviously the volume was there. The last two games almost
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: no targets, but you remember them, yeah, you know, you
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: remember the catches paying more attention to him or.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 17: I don't think so, well, not not yet, but I
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 17: still think he's a super dynamic player and and you know,
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 17: he he within the framework of the offense, he'll catch
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 17: it when you throw it to him, But I don't
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 17: know if he's affecting coverage.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 3: And you know, and that's when I just when I
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 3: look at it, that's what I see. I just don't
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 3: see guys who are pulling coverage. Of fact, it's guys
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 3: who for the most part, it looks like the offense
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: is kind of stuck in mud.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: Still.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, Uh, back to the phones. H Colby's in Texas.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: Hey Colby, can you hear me?
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 19: All right, So I guess I'm more of a half
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 19: kind of guy on this game. All of the turnovers,
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 19: we still had a chance to win at the very name, So,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 19: I mean, I was upset with the bumbles, was absolutely
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 19: livid with the Pop Douglas play. So I guess my
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 19: question is is, uh, Mike Brabel is a last half
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 19: full or half empy?
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: Oh half full full? Well, I would say that they
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: they would be encouraged by if we can get out
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: of our own way, we have a chance to do
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: some things.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I would agree with that. But I do think
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 6: and I was listening to some Paul shows this morning
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 6: actually on my on my way in here today, and
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 6: I think they bring up a good point about Remander specifically,
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 6: but I think you can talk about it with Pop two.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 6: It's a really difficult spot for Rabel because you're trying
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 6: to preach winning football and accountability and don't do the
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 6: s that gets your beat and all this other stuff
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 6: that they're trying to build this culture around. But he's
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 6: also like one of your best players on offense, and
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 6: it's just it's a hard.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 4: Thing to do.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 6: Like, I don't I don't envy like the decisions that
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 6: they have to make with Ormandre because they might have
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 6: to make a really hard decision and sit him down
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 6: and it might not be what's best for the team
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 6: in the short term in terms of, you know, production
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 6: on the field on Sunday against Carolina, but it might
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 6: be what they have to do from a culture building
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 6: standpoint the program.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, now Kobe's question, you know, my instinct is, oh,
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: he's class half full. But behind the scenes, given the roster,
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: he has to be careful about raising those expectations too high,
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: especially with ownership, where he's like, you know, I'm doing
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: the best I can given what we have.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: I would hope he's not worried about stuff like that.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: But well, when you're talking to ownership, you have to
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: be like, Okay, you know this is what we can do,
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: but this is what we can't do, So you need
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: to be patient a little bit.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 6: I think they're good enough to roster talent wise to
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 6: win the game like on Sunday, Oh yeah, yeah, both
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 6: like this coming up Sunday and last night.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: I think the ownership wants playoffs. The irony to me
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: is you could make an argument, at least I could
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: that the two games they lost they had more than
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: enough talent to win, and the one game that they won,
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: I would say the other team probably had more talent, right,
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: I mean what the Raiders have been since that opening
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: day has, I mean borderline train wreck. And I'm sorry,
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: the Patriots were the better team Sunday. They had the
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: better talent. I'm not saying that they did better talent
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: that was suited up that day. Now, maybe if Pittsburgh
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: was full strength, I might even defense. Talk to me.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: With Joey Porter and Deshaun Elliott out there, maybe all
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: the guys that Evan's talking about that were open and
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: schemed open, maybe those don't happen if their secondary was
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: at full strength. But you know, maybe if Alex Highsmith
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: is playing instead of Nate Herbig, maybe I think a
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: little bit differently. But what I saw on Sunday the
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: Patriots with a better team. I mean, if that's off
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: base and you guys can.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: Feel, there's no doubt.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: I think they had better players.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I just the only thing that like, I'm not
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 6: trying to I don't know. I just I think they
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 6: have good enough players to be a competitive team this year.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 4: I don't think the roster is so.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 6: You know, deprived of talent like we've seen over the
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 6: last two years, that we can only expect them to
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 6: win four or five games. Like they they have a
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 6: lot better players this year than they had over the
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 6: last couple of seasons. Obviously the quarterback is the biggest
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 6: of it all. But like, you know, even having guys
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 6: you know, like Digs, guys like Milton Williams, you know,
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 6: those are guys that they didn't have, you know, Landry,
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 6: you know, like that they're better players than the guys.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 6: Campbell's a better left tackle than Vederien Love, Morgan Moses
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 6: a better right tackle than to Demontre Jacobs.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 4: So they have enough talent.
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 6: They got to stop getting themselves beat No in Toronto.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: Sunday's game was frustrating, but I agree that there are
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: reasons to be optimistic. The offense has shown signs of life,
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: maybe not intelligent life, but life.
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: Drake looks good if you cover your eyes.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: For two plays a game, an EPA per dropback. And
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: most importantly, we are competitive. Last year we lost seven
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: games by more than one score. We've had a real
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: chance to win every game this year. Okay, I'm all
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: for that.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 6: I've been very optimistic about Drake for the last two games.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 6: But you know, we were talking about this earlier, Deduce.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 6: The one concern that I have with him is this
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 6: was his entire career at North Carolina.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: Where it's a big part of the post game show.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 6: Isn't Oh, I didn't know that his entire career at
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 6: North Carolina. I remember watching his tape at you know,
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 6: coming into the draft, being like this guy is awesome,
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 6: Like holy crap, is this guy good? And then you
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 6: look up at the scoreboard in the fourth quarter and
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 6: they'd be down two touchdowns and he'd be like, wait
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 6: a second, Like how it's because all of these little
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 6: misses and these near completions that we're talking about and
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 6: you know, the red zone turnovers and like all these
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 6: little things that kind of get washed out by holy craft.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 9: Did you see that throw?
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 6: Those are the things that end up costing you in games.
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 6: And my only concern with Drake is that that hasn't
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 6: been coached out of him yet, that he's still not consistent.
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 9: Yeah, play in, play out.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 3: And my only hope, and I said a little bit
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 3: of this on the on the postgame show, is just
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 3: that has not a lot of continuity in his offenses
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 3: going back to college and into his first two years
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 3: as a pro, and that if he can get comfortable
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 3: in the system and really just have a couple of
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 3: years to settle in and to start to build his confidence,
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 3: that maybe we can get rid of those those plays.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 3: And that's I mean, that's really the final frontier for him, right,
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, if you just clean up those few plays
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 3: a game, no when to take the loss, no one
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 3: to take the sack, no one to throw it away.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 3: Hopefully those things come with experience and you can get
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 3: rid of some of these game changing mistakes.
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: Any rights and whatever happened to taking advantage of bad football?
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: Where an a chain step away from being zero to three.
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: We better not get caught looking ahead to Buffalo. That's
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: another way of looking at it.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 6: A blade of grass of pop Douglas's foot from being
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 6: two and one.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 9: You know, like you can you can do this all day.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why like the last email about like last
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: year or all the games that they weren't competitive in it, Well,
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: that's not what we were hearing all of last year.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: All we were hearing about was all the one scrore
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: losses they had and how much better they could have been. Generally,
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: it's what you are and I agree with Evan. You
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: could make an argument for two and one. You can
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: make an argument for oh and three. They probably deserve
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: to be one and two. Gosh in Atlanta.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: While I don't fully jive with Evan's nerd fantasies, I
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: do have respect for a coach that maintains a consistent
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: identity when it comes to game management.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: Like it or hate it.
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: You know where Rabel stands in short yardage or two
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: minute drill situations.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: Not the pile on Mayo.
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: But it never looked like he was remotely prepared in
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: these same got to have it moments. There's a lot
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: to fix here, but there are signs of a young
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: culture that's taking shape.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: I'm the opposite of that. I mean, the Mayo.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: There's nothing to fix, but there's no sign no the.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: Male part of being prepared. And that might be accurate.
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know, and I think Rabel was certainly more prepared.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: But I don't like a guy that already knows before
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: the game what he's doing. I don't want that.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you don't want the appointment.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I know if he's just deciding, well,
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: if it's fourth to one, I'm going for it every
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: time because of my models. As I'm going for that,
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: what do I need you for that?
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 9: That's that's not what's happening there, but.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: That's what the email is suggesting.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: I want.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: I want a guy who knows what he's doing and
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: has strengthened his conviction. No, I want a guy who
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: takes the numbers and he uses the numbers, but not
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: as a bible like every Major League Baseball manager right now.
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 9: Yeah, and I do think you have some feel I
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 9: do think you have that.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 6: I think you have people in the organization who are
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 6: definitely analytically driven, and you know, are doing that sort
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 6: of stuff. And I like that, but I don't think
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 6: that Rabel is dead set on making the decision that
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 6: they tell him to make.
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: Like, based on that email, I would expect him to
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: go to every fourth and one from his own fifteen
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: yard line this season. I don't want that. I don't
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: think he will and I don't think that will happen either.
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 3: No, but but you know, he's just crazy enough to
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 3: do it if you want to chary him.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 4: It's good though, I like it.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: Jack and Aba says that the success of the Detroit
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: Lions and that Dan Campbell holds a hidden, hopeful message
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: for the Patriots. The Lions are successful because of their
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: head coach, Dan Campbell. Campbell is effective primarily because he's
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: a leader of men, not an analytics nerd. Like the
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: coaches at Miami and Los Angeles. When mister crap I.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 9: Almost analytically driven organization in the.
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: League when it's unbelievable, they just ignored everything Evan said.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 10: When you were.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: When mister Kraft hired a new coach for the Patriots,
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: he hired Mike Vrabel, who, like Dan Campbell, is primarily a.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: Leader of men, not an analytics nerd.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: Mister Kraft's decision to hire Mike Rabel bodes well for.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: The future of the Patriots. Those are two of the
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: more analytically driven guys Able and Campbell that you will find.
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: That's all Dan Campbell does, is you slave to the numbers?
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: Well, you like before Detroit turned the corner, we people
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: made fun of him because he was just following orders from.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: The analytics room.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: They're head of the curve, so and Jacket and Arbor.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: You're from Michigan, you should know better anyway. But it
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: does seem like he plays out of instincts, but you're
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: claiming that the analytics back them up.
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: You can actually see it, like how prepared they are
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: when it's I'm talking about Campbell now, Yeah, you could
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: see it. Last night they talked about it a lot
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: about Akman and did a great job of actually explaining
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: how they know now on third down that they have
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: two downs to get this and the players know and
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: that that's all pre planned. Again, I don't need to
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: you know, Dan Campbell might be a great leader. I'm
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: not saying that he's not of men. Of men, I'm
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: not saying that terrible with women. They don't listen to him.
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: That's disrespectful.
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 6: It's only been two games that they, you know, have
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 6: won so far, Detroit because they had a stinker in
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 6: the opener. I will give Dan Campbell his flowers and
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 6: apologize though, because they've looked pretty good on offense without
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 6: Ben Johnson over the last few weeks.
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: This week I think I did. I believe you did
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: well at least with the spread. I think you took
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: him with a spread. I think you took Baltimore to
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: win and Detroit with the spread. I knew I had
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: something going on with the one thing. You continue to
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: have a feel for the league. Fred, you you were
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: in first place.
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 6: You notice that Dan Dan Campbell, and I probably want
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 6: to notice this. He had a play sheet last night and.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: I didn't watch that closely, so there are I'm sure
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: it was a play sheet, not a Superman comic.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 4: It's a play sheet, Cheesecake Factor.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: There.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 6: There are some murmurings that he might actually be calling
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 6: the offense himself.
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: Wow wow.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 6: And if if that is the case, then I sincerely
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 6: apologize to you, Dan Campbell.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: They listen. You gotta love Dan Campbell. He's shown everyone wrong.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: Now you don't have to, but yeah, I kind of
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: agree with you, Fred, And I'm be one of the
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: guys that puts my hand up and say, we all
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: thought biting the knee caps. But even before that, I
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: kind of thought he was just one of these typical
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: Hartohs that just thinks you can be like more enthusiastic
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: before the game and that's going to allow you to win.
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: But clearly has more going on than.
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 4: I sure though.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 3: I mean maybe it's a cliche, but establishing a program
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 3: and having a quarterback continuity and you know everybody's just
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 3: on the same page and they know what kind of
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 3: team you want to be, and so I think that
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 3: that builds in a little bit of leeway when you
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 3: lose coordinators or you lose a key player. You saw
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 3: it around here for a long time. You didn't always
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 3: know what the answer was, but you knew that you
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 3: had good culture and that that player would somehow emerge.
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: You had a foundation. When Jack's email started and he
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: was talking about taking solace in what Detroit's done, I
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: thought he was going in a different direction, which I
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: would be wholeheartedly in agreement with. And that's sort of
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: how they're building, well, at least looks like they're trying
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: to build. You know, they have the young quarterback. You know,
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: they got Golf, so it's a different way to get him.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: But at the time they got golf, he was still
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: a young quarterback. And they built obviously up front, you know,
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: by drafting Seol and they had rag now who's since retired.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 9: Inn Johnson on the other you know, so you look at.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: The two rookies that the Patriots are plugging in on
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: the offensive line, I think that their hope is, maybe
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: we're not ready, much like when Campbell got there and
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: they went three thirteen in one or whatever it was.
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: We're going to put these building blocks in place and
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: it's good. You know, maybe not right now, but in
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: two years we're going to be pretty good. Right so
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: you have to hope will Campbell and Jared Wilson are
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: really good. You know, by that time, probably Bradbury's gone.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: You replaced him with a the younger center, and that's
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: like the foundation in front of May and then you know,
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: if Kyle Williams sort of emerges as maybe like Jamison Williams,
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: you know, someone like that. I'm not saying Kyle Wins
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: is that dynamic, but work with them, yeah, you know,
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: and you get another weapon to replace Diggs who's not
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: going to be here long term. That's what I think
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: that the vision is.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then maybe you get to a point in
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 3: a couple of years where a player like Jamior Gibbs
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 3: that maybe rest the la on hembishit, but you can
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 3: make a luxury pick whereas you know, last couple of years,
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 3: probably next year, getting into the draft, you say, look,
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 3: we gotta we need a number one receiver, we gotta
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 3: find some speed, and you know they're probably gonna need
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 3: an edge at some point, but you know, you feel
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 3: like you might have the cornerback, you might have the quarterback,
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 3: you might have the left tackle. Now, the receiver and
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 3: the pass rusher are probably the two big pieces you
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 3: still need.
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: But next year, if this and how the quarterbacks in college.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: The quarterbacks in college, I think to this point in
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: the season have been a little disappointing. But there's a
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: lot of people that think there's a fair amount of
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: first round picks at quarterback, which is a tremendous advantage
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: for you. Yeah, if it works out that way, if
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: you you know, let's just say for argument's sake, they
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: get the sixteenth pick, it's right in the middle of
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: the round. So they become an average team this year
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: and they're pick in the middle of the first round.
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: If four or five of those picks end up being quarterbacks,
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: that allows you to get maybe a wide receiver that
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: you might not have gotten if you were in this
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: year's draft.
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 9: By Jordan Tyson, I think the big thing that.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: I even look ahead two years to see if you've.
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 4: Got a Campbell, I want to Tyson to.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 6: Well, the big thing that do said there that is,
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 6: you know, the Lions kind of had this slow burn
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 6: where day Campbell's first season they won three games. The
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 6: second season they were eight nine or something like that,
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 6: and then in twenty twenty three they drafted Gibbs and
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 6: they had it was Gibbs, it was Jack Campbell. Brian Branch,
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 6: Sam Laporta is in there somewhere, like you know, if
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 6: it drafts drafts in order to do that, like I
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 6: think the Patriots might have like one more year where
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 6: they're kind of not there yet, yeah, and that would
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 6: be this season. Yeah, right, And so the Lion's original
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 6: pick in that draft is eighteen. They traded up to
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 6: twelve the draft of Mere Gibbs, but as much as
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 6: I want to see the Patriots back in the playoffs
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 6: and all that stuff, like having one more year where
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 6: you're picking like twelve in each round and.
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 9: You're able to be have one more draft.
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 6: Class like hopefully this one is and I was gonna
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 6: say last year, but well, especially if you.
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: Get one funny thing right off the top of the show.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: And the number one objective this year was to hope
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: that you saw that progression for Drake May. And you
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: know it's early, but we've we've seen progression from Drake May. Definitely.
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 2: Yep, let's go to Randy in Providence.
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: What's up, Randy?
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 18: Good after you and gentlemen, So I'm calling I. Obviously
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 18: there's some good things that happen in the game. You known'
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 18: you known't get that close to winning a game you
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 18: have five turnovers in without a lot of good things happening.
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 18: But three players that I'm concerned about after a couple
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 18: of games here, and number one on that list is
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 18: Will Campbell. I feel like it's getting glossed over a lot.
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 18: Everybody was worried about the match about t J. Watt
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 18: and then he ended up just getting manhandled by Nick herbig.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 9: Uh, manhandled a little strong.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 18: Well, he gave up seven pressures. Nick Herbig had a
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 18: total not according.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 6: To some sevenff No they hadn't for four.
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: Who was the one that had him for none?
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 9: No sacks?
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: A ws went.
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 6: On, It doesn't it's semantics. But manhandled was a little
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 6: strong beat.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw him get running run by. I didn't
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: seem manhandled with you.
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 18: There was a lot of pressure coming off the left side.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 9: I don't know.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: It wasn't It wasn't a great day. I don't think.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 4: I think a lot.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 6: I just don't agree with a lot. I'm sorry anyways,
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 6: it's it doesn't matter.
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 18: Well my my question, I guess moving forward, looking at
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 18: the offensive line, looking down the road, are we going
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 18: to be looking to shift those two guys inside where
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 18: Campbell goes to guard Wilson to center and then and
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 18: then add a tackle moving down the road, or are
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 18: we going to be looking at adding a younger center
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 18: at some point in time and tell those guys where
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 18: they are.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: I think it's too early to say that. Who are
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: the other two guys that we have concerns about, Dallas.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 18: Often and Carlton Davis. I think Carlton Davis is right
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 18: now through three grains, he's ranked sixty ninth out of
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 18: one hundred and fifty eight cornerbacks. It's about halfway. I
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 18: thought he got He got burned by Dante Thorden in
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 18: the first game and then the gk Metcalf catch for
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 18: the touchdown where James didn't even get off his speed.
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 18: You can test that. Yeah, I just think he's been
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 18: he's been disappointing. He's again ranked right near the middle
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 18: of the pack both overall and in coverage, seventy five
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 18: out of one fifty eight, and I just think he's
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 18: been disappointing. I understand that Gonzales is not there and
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 18: that when he is, you know, the assignment's kind of
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 18: moved down a level. But I just I wonder how
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 18: you guys feel about Carlton Davis. Alex Austin has obviously
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 18: been the dumpster fire, but uh, now do you guys
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 18: feel about Carlton Davis's performing through a couple of games?
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 18: And I mean, Gazzale is coming back. This would be
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 18: a good game for him to come back, right because
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 18: Chi Mac is not a burner. He's their lead receiver,
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 18: but he's a guy that you can Gizell should be
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 18: able to keep up with pretty easily.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: Thanks Randy.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not d No, he's giving up a couple
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 3: of plays, but that's that was a tough touch the NFL.
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: No, but I would just.
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 6: Say, like giving up two catches the whole year, what
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 6: I can't stand.
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's not gonna come and surprise to you
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: guys is that I think these numbers in these rankings
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: are completely destroyed.
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: Took the words out of my mouth. So you're saying
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 2: he's given up two passes all year?
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: Get down? So his percentage is terrible because he hasn't
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: really been ad a lot, right, right, and one of
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: the catches that he gave up, to Evan's point, was
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: a big play. Well, so the numbers is gonna say
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: that he's terrible. It's really a very small sample size.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 2: I think we're just talking and I'm does it take
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: into consideration like they didn't throw that way because he
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: was in good verage?
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 6: So no, But so then what are we talking about.
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 6: I'll cover it. I don't mean to pick on Randy.
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 6: I know I got on him about Will Campbell. He
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 6: picked two positions where when you make like one or
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 6: two glaring mistakes it's obvious, right, Like corner and tackle
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 6: are two positions the corner of the office, right where
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 6: if you give up a sack as a tackle or
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 6: you give up a touchdown as a corner, then you
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 6: automatically had a good bad game or a good game.
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 6: It's just the way. It's just kind of the nature
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 6: of the beast. I would say with those two positions,
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 6: like Carlon Davis, you know he said he didn't leave
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 6: his feet on the DK play while he's out of face,
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 6: so he's driving the catch point, he's not supposed to
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 6: leave his feet. He didn't cover the play well, but
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 6: that was the one catch he gave up the entire game.
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm not telling you Davis has been great
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: in these three games, but I would just say that
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: if and I'm not picking on Randy either. I agree
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: with you, Ev, but I think if you didn't have
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: these sights that have all this charting, I don't think
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: people would look at the games, the three games, just
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: watch the games and say, you know what a big
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: problem is Carlton Davis. I don't think he's shown up.
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: I don't think that he's really been like a big
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: part of these games. The Dante Thornton play and opening
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: day was glaring. That was a bad error. He got
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: beat on a double move. It happens whatever. I agree
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: with Evan. I didn't see the ball getting thrown towards
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: seven very often.
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 9: Why would you throw it at seven?
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: He's the when you got twenty eight outdred they're picking
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: on him, and even then, you know Alex Austin has struggled.
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 4: I would agree with Randy I want is the one
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 4: I agree with him.
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: I would agree that he has struggled, but even hasn't
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: been the huge amount of volume because they're not really
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: picking on the corners all that much. They're like finding
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: guys in space. They're you know, Miami, how many times
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: did they get sort of linebackers in matchups that they
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: wanted to get and exploiting the outside edges of the
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: you know, with Hill and Waddle in that game. So
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: I don't even think the corners have been that you
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: know that glaring. I agree Austin has struggled, and I've
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: been disappointed by that because I thought he looked good
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: in training camp. I thought he had a strong train,
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: he looked like a solid option. He hasn't been I
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: don't think as much of him. I'm not as confident
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: of him being able to do his job. Now.
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I just as I was.
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 6: You're right, you know, three games in were way too
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 6: early to make any declarations on Will Campbell one way
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 6: or another. But if we're just evaluating the three games,
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 6: like saying that they need to move him off of
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 6: left tackle too early, it is kind of crazy.
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: I thought he was pretty good against Miami.
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 6: It was really good against Miami. But this game Herbert
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 6: got him, did they Definitely he won the matchup. Now,
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 6: I pushed back on Randy because I don't think he
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 6: acted like well was a turnstile on Sunday, and I don't.
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 9: I don't think it was that.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't necessarily say Will Campbell specifically. I would just
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: say I thought Pittsburgh had a lot of quick pressure
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: in this game. And then I was stunned to find
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: out that for once one of my moronic takes, Mike
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: actually looked it up and the numbers, uh, you know,
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: bore it out. I wasn't. I didn't know what the
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: number would be, but it just felt to me.
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 4: It's just weird.
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: It was a lot of pressure.
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 6: It was not not a ton, but I think like
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 6: her big specifically, like those are the types of guys
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 6: that are going to be tough matchups for Campbell right
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 6: now because he's got speed off the edge and the
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 6: guys that really get him opened up to the outside.
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 6: And then he hit him twice with double mood, you know,
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 6: inside moves, I should say, after he kind of set
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 6: up the speed.
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 4: Which is why I disagree.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: I think, what do you say, manhandle? Yeah, yeah, he
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: ran by him. He wasn't manhandling him. I think when
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: when will Campbell's able to lock up with guys, He's
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: gonna win those more often than not.
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 2: Wrong guy by Eric's in New Jersey.
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: Hey Eric, Hey, I'm.
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 13: Doing make two points real quick. I know Paul is
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 13: gonna hate his comparison because he thinks his guy's a dink.
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 13: But Drake May I.
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 11: Think he should have a lot of flashes. And I thought,
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 11: I thought the world.
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 18: Of Jay Cutler, you know the ball better than nobody
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 18: can run.
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: No, it's a great comp it's a great comp. I
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: agree with you. Now. The thing about Jay Cutler that
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: was so maddening was he had all these skills and
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: didn't seem I didn't know I don't know Jay Cutler.
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it was in his heart, but
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: he didn't seem like he cared all that. You can
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: tell he was kind of indifferent. I don't think it
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: as long it didn't It didn't seem like it mattered
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: that much to him. So, you know, I haven't seen
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: any evidence of that in Drake May right that it's
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: not important to him, that he's not serious about what
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: he does. But from a physical perspective, I can that's
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: a good comp He's got a lot of the similar
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: skills set.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 9: He's a little bit more. Drake's a little bit more mobile.
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 4: Than Butler could move, though.
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think May is an exceptional athlete. I
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: don't think Cutler was.
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 6: But no, I meant times the quarterbacks mobility. Yeah, you know,
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 6: Jay Cutler's the Trevor Lawrence is like the guys that
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 6: are just.
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 4: They got all the things.
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: And Jay was another guy in college. Now he played
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: at Vanderbilt, which makes it a little bit even more difficult,
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: but you kind of watched him and you're like, why
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: doesn't this guy win more? Yeah?
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Fred It was the highest blitz rate and the
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 3: highest pressure rate in terms of for the Patriots offense.
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 3: Of the three games, I guess Pittsburgh.
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: So they blitzed and got there.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Pittsburgh blitzed the highest.
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been rising forty two point six's according to
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 3: the next Gym.
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 6: Maybe they count some of those five man rushes a
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 6: blitzeres se mantics.
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but it went it went twenty six thirty seven,
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 3: So it's been going up.
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 4: The pressure rate has been.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: I'm surprised because I felt like the Raiders just blitzed
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: every play in the second half of that game, which
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: kind of shut down their offense that day. Yeah, but
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: that's the lowest rate that they had. The laders, they
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: might not have blittered all on the first half.
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 6: It's funny that I used to crawl up Bill's backside
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 6: like the five, like when there's five down on the
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 6: line of scrimmage, and that's not a blitz. A blitz
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 6: is coming from I have a second or third five.
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 2: I thought a blitz is when you brush more than
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 2: their blocking.
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: Well, and technically it's five, but I like, I don't
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: think like if I have five blockers and they're sending
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: five guys, you considered a blitz, but it is.
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 4: It's four blow or five plus. That's kind of us.
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 2: But I thought a blitz is when they send an
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 2: extra guy. No, it's not where they send it.
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: It's just I'm with you.
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah, no, I but when you like, if there's five
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 6: guys across the line of scrimmage, right, and then there's
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 6: five offensive linemen, of blitz, so.
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 2: It's some ky some kuys. Sometimes guys drop out, and
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: then it comes from a safety.
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 4: That's a blitz. That's right.
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 2: But so it's it's it doesn't matter where they come from,
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 2: it's how many come.
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 9: But if it's if they run.
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 2: But if this, well, if I have an extra tight
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: end as a blocker, then it's not a blitz because
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 2: it's five on five, five hats.
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: On five hats, but six that would be six on
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: five whatever. If I have a hat on every hat,
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: it's not a blitz.
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 9: Right, That's what I'm Yeah, But it doesn't matter where
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 9: it comes from.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: What they're arguing about.
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 6: How does it not matter where it comes from?
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 2: If I if I have if they only have five,
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 2: If I have five blockers and they have five people coming,
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 2: it's not a blitz.
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: I don't care if it comes from the safety.
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 9: But it matters a lot because of the protection scheme.
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 2: Well, they might screw up because of that, but that
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean it's a blitz.
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 9: But that's not screwing up.
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 3: So if they send, if they drop a defensive tackle
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 3: and a cornerback comes on the blitz, is that a
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 3: blitz the only rush.
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 1: Drop somebody out, But that's a red dog. No, no, no,
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: something just the red dog, red dog like that. But
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 1: when you ropping guys and you're bringing other guys this
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 1: different zone, blitz.
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: Right, but it's it's still a bit. But no, it's it.
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 2: That's one hundred percent of the sky's pressure.
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: It's it's not right.
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 9: But so but then you're sliding the line in a
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 9: different direction.
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you screwed up. No you didn't.
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 2: You didn't You didn't read where the pressure is coming from.
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 2: That doesn't mean it's a blitz.
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 4: What do you mean?
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: That is exactly what it means.
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 2: So every time you every time you you can't read
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 2: the pressure, it's a blitz.
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 6: When if they if you are five down on the
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 6: line of scrimmage and then they drop somebody out, but
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 6: they blitz the.
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 2: Safety but you're you're using that word indiscriminately when.
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 6: Okay, and they but they have five guys initially on
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 6: the line of scrimmage. The offensive line has to block
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 6: the bigs. You're not going to point the offense.
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: But now there's only four bigs to block because somebody
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: but you can't.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: You don't know that until the ball is now okay,
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: but that that's called the sky's pressure.
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: It's not a blitz, you know, this is this is
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: this is a suit, This is a sup up version
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: of a trick player. This is jew I'm sorry Evans.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: Right now, cornerback doesn't typically rush the passer, so when
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: he does, that's a blitz.
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 2: So what if they only had two guys on the
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: line defense and a corner came, Is that a blitz?
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: No, because only three guys go tackle, then that would
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: be different. But the quarterback quarterback doesn't always but the
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: quarterback is still blitzing.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 2: I would say, oh, he's bringing that would say that
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 2: it's not bliitching.
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 6: I would say that would still be a blitz. If
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 6: they had simulated pressure before the snatch.
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about two guys line up on the defense
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 2: and then and then they blitz and they and they
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 2: bring a corner.
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: But where are the other big guys. They don't they
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: dropped off.
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 4: Nine defense.
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 2: It's a lighter they have more safeties in or they
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: have you know.
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: So no team would ever do that. Then what are
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: you talking about? The Patriots? You used to have the
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: tackles on the on the on the line, but they
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: didn't send a cornerback from ten years back. I'm not
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: talking about that. I'm just talking about talking about people
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: on the field. Talk about people. You said, oh no, whatever,
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 1: just have two people on the line. I didn't happens.
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: You just did say it. I said they wouldn't have
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: the corner back ten yards off the line and then
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: blitz loo with only two guys. How do you know, because.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 9: Maybe Brian Tyres would, Brian Flores would do something like.
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 1: That right by the time that by the time that
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: happens if you only have two So in other words,
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 1: in your scenario, there's only two guys that five guys
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: are responsible for. Everybody else is back in your scenario,
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: everybody else is like off the line of scrimmage. There's
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: only two possible And I'm not saying way back. I'm
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 1: talking about you know, off the line right right, Yeah,
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 1: this is.
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 4: How all the defense This is what I'm saying.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: It wouldn't. No one would ever do that. That's my point.
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 6: Oh I disagree, So like I'll give you an example
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 6: and real real world example here. Okay, So last week
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 6: in Miami, Drake May's touchdown run, Judaan was unblocked off
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 6: the edge. It was a five down defensive line. They
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 6: set the mic for a four down defensive line, so
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 6: they actually had five on five, but they slid the
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 6: line accidentally.
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 9: It was they they messed.
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: Up the mic.
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 4: Point, So is that a blitz?
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 6: No, it wasn't a blitz because they had five on five,
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 6: So that was that one was like a mental brain
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 6: fart that they should have been able to reset the
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 6: mic and get all five of the guy's blocked. But
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 6: now if you have those five bigs and Judon drops
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 6: out and a corner blitz, is that's blitz.
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: You keep using that word blitz.
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 4: Because because he's blitzing bringing pressure.
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 2: I was taught a blitz is when you send an
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 2: extra guy.
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 1: So I think in general terms, I would agree with you.
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: I think what he's talking about, like when you have
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: the product, the protection set, you have five guys.
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 2: But that's the whole point is you try to trick them.
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: No, I understand that, but maybe one of those guys
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: simulates like he's going and then stops, and then another
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 1: like it like a defensive comes. That's a blitz. Even
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: though you're only bring in five guys. That's still I
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: think it's just disguised like you your thing with two
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 1: guys like That's what they're trying to do is confuse you.
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 1: But they're not going to have everybody like. They're not
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 1: going to have nine guys off the line and only
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: two on and and you're going to get confused where
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: it's I was.
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 2: Always taught when a team blitzes, they're taking a chance,
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: they're taking a risk because they're they're using an extra
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 2: guy to get there.
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: Right, That's what I was blitz You know, the fewer
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: guys you have in coverage, the more men coverage you have,
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 1: and right, one guy, when you.
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 2: Drop somebody out into coverage and move another guy, it's
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 2: less of a risk. It's not a blitz. That's just
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 2: what I was taught.
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 4: This is no I hear what you're saying. You know,
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 4: I just think that you know, the people.
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 1: I was taught by had wider pants. You know they
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: weren't as tight.
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 4: I hear what you're saying.
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 6: I'm just telling you, like from an offensive line perspective,
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 6: like you're setting the protection pre snap fine based.
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: Off of where using the word blitz, where the threats are.
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 1: So like nothing you're saying is wrong.
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 6: You're sliding, You're sliding it this way, and then they're
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 6: bringing pressure from the other way, Like there's no way
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 6: you're going to be able to block that guy, Like
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 6: it's it's unless you're.
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: Tom Brady and you point it out.
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 2: Like the only way that you're blocking that Tom Brady
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 2: didn't point out Tom Brady knew that guy's coming on.
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: That's right, Ed Reid coming up. It's not like that's
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: that's rights. I'm always coming I'm just gonna throw it
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: over the top. I'm talking about I.
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 6: Just this was a fun conversation. I'm glad that we
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 6: talked about.
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 3: You can have your pff I'll take my PFK.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 9: I just think it's modest.
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: Numbers.
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 6: This is this is what all this is nowadays, Like
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 6: they like most defenses nowadays are not giving up the
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 6: numbers and coverage, like they're not bringing the house anymore.
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 9: As often as they used.
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: To, unless it's week one and we did well.
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but like we did on that last play, Carlton
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: Davis was the only guy back there.
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 4: He's right.
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 6: But now they're doing a lot more of these disguised
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 6: pressures where it's we still really are getting the six
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 6: or seven guys in coverage, but where who's dropping and
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 6: who's blitzing is changing on.
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 1: The fly is coming?
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 9: Yeah, and so that that's confuse it. Who's rushing?
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 4: Who's rushing about that?
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: I gotta go, I have a meeting. I have to
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: BP bro. Sure, good show, good good ending. I like it.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: I like it. I like it.
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 2: We'll be back tomorrow. Tomorrow's turn the page day Catch
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 2: twenty two. It's Moorrow Okay, so you'll warm up the crowd, yeah,
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 2: and we'll get it.
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 9: I'm gonna ask Bartha if you'll do what you we'll.
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: Wake them up. All right. We'll be back tomorrow.
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 3: Hey, this is Deuce. Thanks for tuning into the show.
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 3: If you really want to help us, make sure you
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 3: like us wherever you get your podcasts, like Apple Podcasts
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 3: or Spotify. Also make sure you follow us on the
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 3: New England Patriots YouTube channel to see this show and
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 3: everything else that we do here at the Patriots Thanks
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 3: a lot.
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 5: Patriots Catch twenty two Well, join Evan Lazar and Alex
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 5: Bart every Thursday as they take a deep dive into
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 5: the exit, the o's trend and latest New England Patriots
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 5: roster moves.
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 9: You And I'm usually into the numbers.
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: It we do something.
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 20: I mean to the tangible numbers. There's there's time here,
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 20: just give me. There's the advantage of fact. You haven't
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 20: know how to work it. I'm surprised you know an
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 20: old man over here. I thought maybe I'd have to
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 20: show you, like a tutorial or something.
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 1: How am I old man?
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 5: To search for Patriots Catch twenty two anywhere you get
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 5: your podcasts