Latest / Best of Business / Sandra Grey: CTU President on the growing calls for NZ to introduce 'right to disconnect' policies

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Sandra Grey: CTU President on the growing calls for NZ to introduce 'right to disconnect' policies · Best of Business

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.
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  Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
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  Speaker 2: As we all settle back into the working year, there
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  Speaker 2: are calls to give us the right to ignore our
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  Speaker 2: bosses after hours. A new policy document by the Council
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  Speaker 2: of Trade Unions is advocating for an amendment to the
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  Speaker 2: Employment Relations Act based off Australia's law change in twenty
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  Speaker 2: twenty four. The change would give workers the right not
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  Speaker 2: to be unreasonably contacted outside of work hours. Councilor Trade
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  Speaker 2: Unions President Sandra Gray. Sandra Gray joins me. Now, Sandra,
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  Speaker 2: good morning.
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  Speaker 3: Good morning, And asn't it an irony we speaking on
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  Speaker 3: a Sunday, didn't We're Sunday workers.
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  Speaker 2: So my producer was a little hesitant to contact you
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  Speaker 2: on a Saturday morning to set up this interview. So
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  Speaker 2: thank you very much for taking the call. I appreciate that.
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  Speaker 3: Look, the letter switch job still allows for all of
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  Speaker 3: us to have jobs, but do this to do weekend
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  Speaker 3: work or we do after ours work. It allows all
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  Speaker 3: of us to keep doing that. It just says you
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  Speaker 3: shouldn't be unreasonably pressured and to you know, taking a
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  Speaker 3: computer home, or taking it away on holiday with you
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  Speaker 3: just in case your boss needs to get in touch
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  Speaker 3: with you. Agreed time on the weekends, agreed time after ours. Absolutely,
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  Speaker 3: of course workers are going to do that, but you'll
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  Speaker 3: know that pressure. Sometimes we feel we've got to stay
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  Speaker 3: on duty even when we're away.
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  Speaker 2: Sandra, is it an issue in New Zealand?
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  Speaker 3: It is an issue and we have a lot of
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  Speaker 3: people doing what i'll call unpaid over time. So recently
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  Speaker 3: talking to a retail worker, their boss said, look, we've
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  Speaker 3: got a meeting on Friday. I know it's your rostered
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  Speaker 3: day off, but just come in. It won't take much
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  Speaker 3: of your time. And that's the point. It's our time
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  Speaker 3: when it's our weekend. Whether it's a Friday or a Sunday,
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  Speaker 3: you know it's our time. If we're not rostered to work,
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  Speaker 3: and we shall be able to say, actually, I'm not
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  Speaker 3: coming in on my day off. Do the meeting on
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  Speaker 3: a day when I'm rostered to work.
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  Speaker 2: That's a very good point because I immediately thought about
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  Speaker 2: it as bad after ours evening emails or weekend emails.
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  Speaker 2: But for people who are working part time and you've
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  Speaker 2: got set days, you know most of those people will
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  Speaker 2: say that that work bleeds into the other days.
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  Speaker 3: It does, and what that does is, for a start,
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  Speaker 3: eats into our family time or our time just to
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  Speaker 3: relax and rest and recover and recuperate. But it does
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  Speaker 3: create a large level of resentment about work and people
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  Speaker 3: start to you know, talk about their bosses and ways
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  Speaker 3: that no boss needs. They don't need to be thought
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  Speaker 3: of as being mean or cruel. So we just need
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  Speaker 3: to be mindful that people need time off. They need
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  Speaker 3: time to go to the beach, they need time to
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  Speaker 3: do what I'm doing today, which is go to the
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  Speaker 3: Live an A and P Show. We all deserve time
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  Speaker 3: where we don't have to be at the Betton call
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  Speaker 3: of our employer, and then will be more reasonable when
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  Speaker 3: we are at work because we've been given time off.
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  Speaker 2: Is this an increasing issue? So why do we need
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  Speaker 2: protection now when we haven't had it in the past.
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  Speaker 3: Look, you know, all of the technology now allows us
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  Speaker 3: to base contactable twenty four to seven. You know, most
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  Speaker 3: of us our workplaces have our mobile phone numbers, even
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  Speaker 3: if it's not a workflowe. Most of us have you know,
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  Speaker 3: devices we can carry with us laptops or other devices
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  Speaker 3: so that the information technology makes it much more easy
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  Speaker 3: to get hold of workers when they're not for work.
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  Speaker 3: But also during COVID, quite rightly, we all learned how
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  Speaker 3: to work remotely, those of us that could, and we've
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  Speaker 3: got to remember that many workers actually have to be
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  Speaker 3: on duty and in the office and in a place,
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  Speaker 3: but some of us didn't work from anywhere, and that's
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  Speaker 3: made that idea that well you can work twenty four seven,
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  Speaker 3: you can be available twenty to seven much more demanding.
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  Speaker 3: And I am going to say in New Zealand, the
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  Speaker 3: high high unemployment means that many workers feel they can't
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  Speaker 3: say no to their employers, but actually that they'll find
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  Speaker 3: it's so insecure out there, and people feel so under
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  Speaker 3: threat and worried about their jobs they just don't want
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  Speaker 3: to say no in case they get into trouble and
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  Speaker 3: their jobs and jeopardy. So I think right now what
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  Speaker 3: we need is a legislative, a piece that says it's okay,
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  Speaker 3: we all agree the right to switch off is something
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  Speaker 3: we should be able to do. And as everyone's been
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  Speaker 3: pointing out, the Prime ministers summer off and then letting
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  Speaker 3: you on contact them, so why not the rest of us.
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  Speaker 2: The change would be contact that would be deemed unreasonable.
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  Speaker 2: How do you define that? I mean, does that come
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  Speaker 2: down to the particular the kind of job you're doing
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  Speaker 2: your own situation. Is that something that would be negotiated
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  Speaker 2: with between employer and employee.
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  Speaker 1: Some of it.
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  Speaker 3: Some of our employment contracts already say that we have
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  Speaker 3: to be available for additional shifts, so we have to
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  Speaker 3: make sure that between these hours we have to keep
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  Speaker 3: our phone on. There's a lot of people who are
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  Speaker 3: on call. That's reasonable because that's part of your contract.
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  Speaker 3: But if your contract says you've got three days a
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  Speaker 3: week working in a large supermarket, it is unreasonable to
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  Speaker 3: be called in for a meeting on your day off.
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  Speaker 3: It is unreasonable for your employer to say, look, just
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  Speaker 3: hang around in case with got work. This is about
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  Speaker 3: allowing people to be really present in their home and
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  Speaker 3: their downtime, as well as their knowing security of work,
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  Speaker 3: so it won't disrupt businesses. Where it's been done in
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  Speaker 3: Australia for the last two years. What they found is
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  Speaker 3: it's working. People really like it, not just workers but
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  Speaker 3: employers because there's more certainty and people feel more committed
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  Speaker 3: to the OL's they are doing. They've also found that
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  Speaker 3: workers are actually working a third less unpaid over time,
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  Speaker 3: and that's good for workers because at the moment everybody
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  Speaker 3: says cost of living is a thing that's really really
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  Speaker 3: harming them. Will imagine if you did a third less
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  Speaker 3: unpaid work, that's a bit more money in your pocket
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  Speaker 3: every week.
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  Speaker 2: And maybe a more motivated worker too, happier, more motivated,
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  Speaker 2: productive worker.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, that good agreement between you and employer makes
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  Speaker 3: those time for you at work better and I think
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  Speaker 3: that's what employers need to really look at.
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  Speaker 2: Sandric. You mentioned Australia. There are other countries now around
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  Speaker 2: the world are also implementing legislature changes. Are you looking
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  Speaker 2: to those countries in terms of amendments you'd like to see?
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  Speaker 3: We do always look internationally that the closest example of
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  Speaker 3: Australia is really working, so we're looking most closely. But
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  Speaker 3: the thing we've got to recognize is that New Zealand
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  Speaker 3: has some of the longest working hours in the OECD
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  Speaker 3: that developed nations comparable nations to us, and we have
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  Speaker 3: some of the lost productivity. So this is also part
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  Speaker 3: of that solution. More committed workers in the workers in
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  Speaker 3: the hours that are paid to work is better for everybody.
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  Speaker 3: It will lift productivity. So you know, if we want
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  Speaker 3: to look overseas, we can see we've got a changer
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  Speaker 3: attitude to work and we've got a changer attitude to
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  Speaker 3: workers to improve New Zealand. As New Zealand's economy at.
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  Speaker 2: The moment, what rights do workers have to ignore their
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  Speaker 2: bosses after ours if you simply don't answer a call?
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  Speaker 2: Was that okay?
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  Speaker 3: Well? I think that the point is that people feel
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  Speaker 3: they don't have that right. Actually, you are paid for
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  Speaker 3: the we you'll pay for and you do have the
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  Speaker 3: right to say at the end of the day, no,
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  Speaker 3: it's four o'clock. My shift finishes at four o'clock. I'm
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  Speaker 3: going home, and no I'm not going to answer your calls.
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  Speaker 3: I think the thing is having the legislation as Australia
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  Speaker 3: is shown, makes people a little bolder to actually say
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  Speaker 3: it because they can point to the legislation. It's like
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  Speaker 3: other legislated rights, having, you know, holidays. None of us
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  Speaker 3: will be brave enough individually to say I want to
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  Speaker 3: take holidays thanks the fact that's in law makes us go,
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  Speaker 3: not that the law provides for this. So I think
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  Speaker 3: it's just giving work as that little bit extra authority
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  Speaker 3: and balancing power, and as I say, in a very
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  Speaker 3: very high unemployment error, actually it's hard to hold onto
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  Speaker 3: your work rights. I would certainly encourage all workers to
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  Speaker 3: make sure that they do switch their floes off if
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  Speaker 3: that's what's getting in their way, or that they do
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  Speaker 3: send their boss. I really need these two days. I'm
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  Speaker 3: going to come back on Thursday morning for my shift
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  Speaker 3: much more of those if I really get some downtime.
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  Speaker 3: But I would also encourage employers to look at how
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  Speaker 3: positive the effects are when you respect workers downtime.
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  Speaker 2: Sandra, do you have support for this?
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  Speaker 3: We do have support of this immediately that Greens have
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  Speaker 3: come out and supported it in terms of parliamentary support,
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  Speaker 3: and as I say, we know the international trade union
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  Speaker 3: community and we are working with all political parties, so
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  Speaker 3: we're hoping to get to see The Minister brought vat
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  Speaker 3: Bels in to talk about this. As I say, there
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  Speaker 3: is good economic rationale, there is also good rationale, and
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  Speaker 3: she's currently looking at health and safety legislation. We know
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  Speaker 3: that tired workers, we know that fatigue is one of
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  Speaker 3: the biggest causes of workplace accidents, so hopefully this will
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  Speaker 3: be something the Minister will look at and say here's
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  Speaker 3: part of the solution to our appalling health and safety
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  Speaker 3: report as well.
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  Speaker 2: Sandra, I hope the weather's going to be good for
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  Speaker 2: you at the AMP show today.
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  Speaker 3: It looks like it's going to be a stunner. And
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  Speaker 3: of course what we have here is a whole rural
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  Speaker 3: community out working on the weekends but also having a
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  Speaker 3: great time. We do need to make sure we look
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  Speaker 3: after community.
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  Speaker 2: Sandrack Gray, thanks so much for your time this morning.
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  Speaker 2: That was Counsel of Trade Union's president.
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  Speaker 1: There for more from News Talks ed B. Listen live
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