Latest / Banned Camp: Banned Books, Comedy, and Free Speech vs. Censorship / The Catcher in the Rye Ch. 24.1: Holden Flunks the Art of Staying on Topic | Banned Books Podcast

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The Catcher in the Rye Ch. 24.1: Holden Flunks the Art of Staying on Topic | Banned Books Podcast · Banned Camp: Banned Books, Comedy, and Free Speech vs. Censorship

Welcome to Band Camp.
I'm Jennifer.
And I'm Dan, and this is the podcast where we read banned books out loud to try to figure out why they were banned in the first place.
This season, we're reading "The Catcher in the Rye" by J.D.
Salinger.
Consider this your spoiler warning because Jennifer is about to read from the book out loud word for word.
If you're just finding us, you're good.
Start right here.
You're gonna be fine.
We're gonna catch you up real quick.
And if something doesn't make sense, relax.
Odds are we're figuring it out as we go at the same time because neither of us have read the book either.
It's kind of the whole point of the podcast, and it's also why we need backup.
Roll it in here, buddy boy.
Look at this guy.
He is the third member of our team.
He is our trusty fact-checking robot.
Looking good, buddy.
Why don't you remind everyone where we left off last time in "The Catcher in the Rye"? Previously on Band Camp, Holden Caulfield danced with his sister in the dark.
No music worth mentioning, no audience, just two people horsing around in a room that was about to stop being safe.
Then the parents walked in, and the language changed.
"Marvelous.
Good night.
Did you say your prayers?" Dan wanted to know why this kid keeps leaving places where people love him.
Jennifer said it's because leaving is the only thing he knows how to control.
Neither of them was wrong.
Neither of them was completely right either.
There is a particular kind of exhaustion that comes from trusting someone in the dark.
Holden seems to seek it out.
I have not yet determined whether that makes him brave or reckless.
Something tells me it depends on who's in the room.
Take it away, Jennifer Woo.
Thank you, robot.
And with that being said, scary book people, let's begin chapter 24 of J.D.
Salinger's "The Catcher in the Rye."
Mr.
and Mrs.
Antolini had this very swanky apartment over on Seton Place with two steps that you go down to get in the living room, and a bar and all.
I'd been there quite a few times, because after I left Elkton Hills, Mr.
Antolini came up to our house for dinner quite frequently to find out how I was getting along.
He wasn't married then.
Then when he got married, I used to play tennis with he and Mrs.
Antolini quite frequently out on the West Side Tennis Club in Forest Hills, Long Island.
Yeah, they, why are they, why are they so connected? It's like being friends with a, a teach- I don't know.
Like was every- was it like this? Do you just co-mingle with, imagine...
Well, first of all, when you just described, uh, Antolini's, uh, living room, it reminded me of Don Draper's living room from "Mad Men," and that guy had a couple of bucks.
How much money were teachers making b- back in the '40s and '50s? Because they ain't making shit now Yeah.
And they're playing, you know, golf and tennis at country clubs and everything.
Like this is kind of a to-do setup.
And you're right, I don't know what to think of this teacher.
Do you think he's on the up and up or is there something hinky going on here? Well, but I mean, Holden went and had hot chocolate at the old guy that had the grip.
No, It sounds like this is just a very normal thing, and then, like, they borrowed that car from the basketball coach.
It's like, what the heck? This is not a world that I'm familiar with.
No, no, not at all.
I mean, I had good relationships with my teachers and everything.
But i'm sure, uh, last day of every semester, they probably were like, "Thank God.
Next."
Mrs.
Antolini belonged there.
She was lousy with dough.
She was-- Does that mean has a lot? of cash.
okay.
She was about 60 years older than Mr.
Antolini, 60 60 years.
That's quite an age gap.
I know.
If he's, like, in his 20s, like DB, then she's in her 80s.
He's just exaggerating.
She was an older lady, I guess.
She was about 60 years older than Mr.
Antolini, but they seemed to get along quite well.
For one thing, they were both very intellectual, especially Mr.
Antolini, except that he was more witty than intellectual when you were with him, sort of like DB.
Mrs.
Antolini was mostly serious.
She had asthma pretty bad.
They both read all DB's stories, Mrs.
Antolini too, and when DB went to Hollywood, Mr.
Antolini phoned him up and told him not to go.
He went anyway, though.
Mr.
Antolini said that anybody that could write like DB had no business going out to Hollywood.
God, did they really hate Hollywood that much? Was it really, like, this rift between, like, you know, Hollywood is for, like, dummies and books are for intellectuals? I mean, that's still kind of something you hear sometimes.
it's like coastal elites except back then, uh, one of the coasts weren't too elite, right? It's like the East Coast is where all the schools are super educational, and then you get out to Hollywood where they're making, you know, Three Stooges movies Okay.
Hello.
Hello.
Hello, hello, hello Fair enough.
I would have walked down to their house because I didn't wanna spend any of Phoebe's Christmas dough that I didn't have to, but I felt funny when I got outside, sort of dizzy.
So I took a cab.
I didn't want to, but I did.
I had a hell of a time even finding a cab.
Old Mr.
Antolini answered the door when I rang the bell.
After the elevator boy finally let me up, the bastard.
He had on his bathrobe and slippers, and he had a highball in one hand.
He was a pretty sophisticated guy, and he was a pretty heavy drinker.
This is, this is why he likes this guy.
Hey, I'm looking for somebody.
You wanna go get a cocktail?" "Absolutely, my boy.
Come on in."
Guy in a bathrobe with a highball.
Holden, my boy," he said.
"My God, he's grown another 20 inches.
Fine to see you."
How are you, Mr.
Antolini? How's Mrs.
Antolini?" "We're both just dandy.
Let's have that coat."
He took my coat off me and hung it up.
I expected to see a day-old infant in your arms, nowhere to turn, snowflakes in your eyelashes."
I'm confused.
Oh, that's a joke.
He's a very witty guy sometimes.
That one went over my head.
over- Yeah, I didn't get it.
Yeah, it had to be there, Jennifer.
I'm not intellectual enough.
Yeah, we don't get it.
We're too stupid.
We're West Coasters.
he turned around and yelled out to the kitchen, "Lillian, how's the coffee coming?" Lillian was Mrs.
Antolini's first name.
It's all ready," she yelled back.
"Is that Holden? Hello, Holden."
Hello, Mrs.
Antolini."
You were always yelling when you were there.
That's because the both of them were never in the same room at the same time.
It was sort of funny.
Sit down, Holden," Mr.
Antolini said.
You could tell he was a little oiled up.
The room looked like they just had a party.
Glasses were all over the place and dishes with peanuts in them.
Excuse the appearance of the place," he said.
We've been entertaining some Buffalo friends of Mrs.
Antolini's.
Some Buffalos, as a matter of fact."
I laughed, and Mrs.
Antolini yelled something into me from the kitchen, but I couldn't hear her.
What'd she say?" I asked Mr.
Antolini.
"She said not to look at her when she comes in.
She just rose from the sack.
Have a cigarette.
Are you smoking now?" Thanks," I said.
I took a cigarette from the box he offered me.
I'll tell you, you know, apart from the cigarettes, I kind of liked how people used to handle themselves back in the day.
I would like to have a bar cart with ice, Mm-hmm.
highball glasses, nice selection of booze ready to go.
I would like to never be more than three feet from a bowl of something for me to eat.
Peanuts, Chex Mix, chocolate covered almonds.
You know, you're right.
These people, they, they, yeah, I mean, I don't even have any of that.
I don't-- The-- I have, like, water glasses at best for when I have a cocktail.
It's really disgusting.
and most of yours because you have kids are like plastic tumblers.
And you can't, you can't put anything out in a bowl.
Your kids will just like, "Oh, are these for anyone?" Gone.
Now you're like three feet away from empty bowls wherever you are.
Like, ugh.
So you and Pencey are no longer one, he said.
He always said things that way.
Sometimes it amused me a lot, and sometimes it didn't.
He He sort of did it a little bit too much.
I don't mean he wasn't witty or anything.
He was, but sometimes it gets on your nerves when somebody's always saying things like, "So you and Pencey are no longer one."
D.B.
does it too much too sometimes.
What was the trouble, Mr.
Antolini asked me.
How'd you do in English? I'll show you the door in short order if you flunked English, you little ace composition writer.
Oh, I passed English all right.
It was mostly literature, though.
only wrote about two compositions the whole term, I said.
I flunked oral expression, though.
They had this course you had to take, oral expression.
That I flunked.
Why? Oh, I don't know.
I didn't feel much like going into it.
I was still feeling sort of dizzy or something, and I had a hell of a headache all of a sudden.
I wonder why he's sick.
why that is.
Yeah, is this foreshadowing? Is something going on? Did he have a stroke? What the heck? Why do you go straight to stroke? I don't know, because this kid worries me.
I want him to go back and lay down with Phoebe.
there are 26 chapters in this book.
This is chapter, what are we in, chapter 23, 24? Uh-huh.
And I know that chapter 26 is like a paragraph long.
So we only have a couple more chapters at best left, and I am so worried that this is going to end up bad.
That stupid 1984 really effed with me Yeah.
I'm just so worried that this kid who, yes, he's annoying.
I get it, jib jab.
I think he's annoying too sometimes.
I am just, my head is on a swivel.
I'm so worried about this kid.
Like, everything that happens to him now, like he's just going over to see a family friend who's a teacher.
I'm like, well, what's up with this pervert? Is he going to try to get this kid? Like, I'm so nervous about the entire setup.
I can practically guarantee it's not gonna end like 1984.
That would be a can practically guarantee it's not going to end like 1984.
No bag of rats? All right.
But you could tell he was interested, so I told him a little bit about it.
It's this course where each boy in class has to get up in class and make a speech.
You know, spontaneous and all.
And if the boy digresses at all, you're supposed to yell, "Digression!" at him as fast as you can.
It just about drove me crazy.
I got an F in it.
Why? Oh, I don't know.
That digression business got on my nerves.
I don't know.
The trouble with me is I like it when somebody digresses.
It's more interesting and all.
Yeah, me too.
Jennifer, you do not have permission to yell digression to me when I go off on one of my stupid rants.
And I will never do it to you.
I promise you.
it reminds me of the, you know, grabbing a kid and dancing and forcing the kid to dance a certain way.
It's like, Well, we're gonna force you to talk and stay on, you know, stay in these little narrow lanes.
Stay within the lines."
You don't care to have somebody stick to the point when he tells you something? Oh, sure, I like somebody to stick to the point and all, But I don't like them to stick too much to the point.
I don't know.
I guess I don't like it when somebody sticks to the point all the time.
The boys that got the best marks in oral expression were the ones that stuck to the point all the time, I admit But there was this one boy, Richard Kinsella didn't stick to the point too much, and they were all yelling, 'Digression!' at him.
It was terrible, because in the first place, he was a very nervous guy."
"His Lips were always shaking whenever it was his time to make a speech, and you could hardly hear him if you were sitting way in the back of the room.
When his lips sort of quit shaking a little bit, though, I liked his speeches better than anyone else's.
He practically flunked the course, though, too.
He got a D+ because they kept yelling, 'Digression!' at him all the time.
For instance, he made this speech about this farm his father bought in Vermont.
They kept yelling, 'Digression!' at him the whole time he was making it, and this teacher, Mr.
Vinson, gave him an F on it because he hadn't told what kind of animals and vegetables that they grew on the farm and all.
Digression! Digression! Poor Richard Kinsella threw himself out the window.
Another kid in this book couldn't take it.
What he did was, Richard Kinsella, he'd start telling you all that stuff, then all of a sudden, he'd start telling you about this letter his mother got from his uncle, and how his uncle got polio and all when he was 42 years old, and how he wouldn't let anybody come to see him in the hospital because he didn't want anybody to see him with a brace on.
It didn't have too much to do with the farm, I admit it, but it was nice.
It's nice when somebody tells you about their uncle, especially when they start out telling you about their father's farm, and then all of a sudden get more interested in their uncle.
I mean, it's dirty to keep yelling digression at him when he's all nice and excited.
I don't know.
It's hard to explain.
You know, I do the weave.
You know what the weave is? I'll talk about, like, nine different things, and they all come back brilliantly together.
And it's like...
And friends of mine that are, like, English professors, they say, "It's the most brilliant thing I've ever seen."
Kinsella invented the weave.
I didn't feel too much like trying either.
For one thing, I had this terrific headache all of a sudden.
I wish to God old Mrs.
Antolini would come in with the coffee.
Holden, one short, faintly stuffy pedagogical question.
Don't you think there's a time and place for everything? Don't you think if someone starts out to tell you about his father's farm, he should stick to his guns, then get around to telling you about his uncle's brace? Or if his uncle's brace is such a provocative subject, shouldn't he have selected it in the first place as his subject, not the farm? there's another guy who doesn't get the weave I love to weave.
If you ever weave and don't come back to the point, then that's a problem.
But when you weave, and you go here, and boom, boom, boom, always coming back, then you're in good shape I didn't feel much like thinking and answering and all.
I had a headache and I felt lousy.
I even had sort of a stomach ache, if you wanna know the truth.
Yes, I don't know.
I guess he should've.
I mean, I guess he should've picked his uncle as a subject instead of the farm if that's what interested him the most.
But what I mean is, lots of times you don't know what interests you most till you start talking about something that doesn't interest you most.
I mean, you can't help it sometimes.
what I think is, you're supposed to leave somebody alone if he's at least being interesting and he's getting all excited about something.
I like it when somebody gets excited about something.
It's nice.
You just don't know this teacher, Mr.
Vincent.
He could drive you crazy sometimes, him and the goddamn class.
Wow, this mr.
Antolini doesn't cut him off.
Yeah, because he's all oiled up sitting there in his living room in the middle of the night.
I mean, he'd keep telling you to unify and simplify all the time.
Some things you just can't do that to.
I mean, you can't hardly ever simplify and unify something just because somebody wants you to.
You didn't know this guy, Mr.
Vincent.
I mean, he was very intelligent and all, but you could tell he didn't have too much brains.
Coffee gentlemen, finally, Mrs.
Antolini said.
She came in carrying this tray with coffee and cakes and stuff on it.
Holden, don't you even peek at me.
I'm a mess.
Hello, Mrs.
Antolini, I said.
I started to get up and all, but Mr.
Antolini got hold of my jacket and pulled me back down.
Old Mrs.
Antolini's hair was full of those iron curler jobs, everything's in the linen closet, the top shelf.
I'm going to bed.
I'm exhausted.
So It's like one of those performative questions while ago.
Mm-hmm.
How's your mom? Okay, I'm going to bed.
Can you boys make up the couch by yourselves? We'll take care of everything.
You run along to bed, Mr.
Antolini said.
He gave Mrs.
Antolini a kiss, and she said goodbye to me and went in the bedroom.
They were always kissing each other a lot in public.
I had part of a cup of coffee and about half of some cake that was as hard as a rock.
All old Mr.
Antolini had was another highball, though.
He makes them strong, too.
You could tell.
He He may get to be an alcoholic if he doesn't watch his step.
I had lunch with your dad a couple of weeks ago, he said all of a sudden.
Did you know that? No, I didn't.
You're aware, of course, that he's terribly concerned about you.
I know it.
I know he is, I said.
Apparently, before he phoned me, he just had a long, rather harrowing letter from your last headmaster to the effect that you were making absolutely no effort at all.
Cutting classes, coming unprepared to all your classes.
In general, being an all-around-- I didn't cut any classes.
You weren't allowed to cut any.
There were a couple of them I didn't attend once in a while, like that oral expression I told you about, but I didn't cut- any.
cut What does cutting mean? I thought that meant you don't go to the classes Yeah, I think you, you-- That means you cut the classes.
You just admitted it, Holden.
I never cut classes.
I mean, I didn't go to them a lot.
I didn't feel at all like discussing it.
The coffee made my stomach feel a little better, but I still had this awful headache.
Mr.
Antolini lit another cigarette.
He smoked like a fiend.
Then he said, Frankly, I don't know what the hell to say to you, Holden."
"I know.
I'm very hard to talk to.
I realize that."
I have a feeling that you're riding for some kind of a terrible, terrible fall, but I don't honestly know what kind.
Are you listening to me?" Yes."
You could tell he was trying to concentrate.
"It may be the kind where, at the age of 30, you sit in some bar hating everybody who comes in looking as if he might have played football in He nailed him.
That's pretty much everyone he's met in the book so far.
Phony jerks Then again, you may pick up just enough education to hate people who say, 'It's a secret between he and I,' or you may end up in some business office throwing paperclips at the nearest stenographer.
I just don't know.
But do you know what I'm driving at at all?" yeah, sure," I said.
"I did too.
But you're wrong about that hating business.
I mean about hating football players and all.
You really are.
I don't hate too many guys.
What I may do, I may hate them for a little while, like this guy Stradladder I knew at Pencey, and this other boy, Robert Ackley.
I hated them once in a while, I admit it.
But it doesn't last too long is what I mean.
After a while, if I didn't see them, if they didn't come in the room, or if I didn't see them in the dining room for a couple of meals, I sort of missed them.
I mean, I sort of missed them.
End of section.
Interesting.
when I think about both of them, he was just really frustrated, like Ackley coming in and i- annoying the crap out of him, and then like Stradladder doing all these things that just also just irritated him.
So I think he just gets frustrated because these people don't live up to his expectations.
Right? It's, this is on you, Holden, man.
Holden, Ackley and Stradlater are the sore tooth, and you are the tongue that won't stop jabbing it.
I get it.
Humans hate people and miss them at the same time.
Scary book people, tell me about somebody you can't stand, but it pisses you off when they stop talking to you.
Why do you hate them, and why do you care? Most conflicted answers make the show.
Easiest way to answer is a Spotify comment or bandcamppodcast.com/soundoff.
Woo.
It's time for PPP Problematic Points to Ponder.
What, if anything, would be considered ban worthy in this chapter? Okay, Jennifer, PPP, what, if anything, could be bandworthy in the section we just read? I mean, nothing really happened that could be ban-worthy, right? He just, he went over...
I mean, drinking h- drinking with the guy? Did, did Holden get a drink? No, Holden had coffee.
Um, the teacher, uh, answering the door in his robe with a highball.
And didn't the other teacher answer the door in his robe? Like, That's right.
is going on with these '50s teachers always walking around, first of all, having kids come over to their house and wearing their robes? Yeah, ban this book.
Ban that entire decade if that's what's going on.
telling you ladies, listen, Moms for Liberty and Ron DeSantis, you ladies, there's-- We're, we're coming to the end.
Haven't found a legit reason yet, gals.
And you, Ron.
Robot's log.
Thoughts on digressions, uncle braces, and the kid who got an F for being interesting.
Richard Kinsella got up in front of a classroom with shaking lips and started talking about his father's farm.
Then he forgot about the farm and told them about his uncle's polio brace instead.
They screamed "digression" at him until he stopped.
Holden said it was the best speech in the class.
He got a D+.
Jennifer caught something worth hearing.
She said forcing someone to stay in their lane is the same thing as forcing a kid to dance a certain way.
You can make someone perform the right steps.
You can't make them feel the music.
Mr.
Antolini tried.
He sat there in a bathrobe with a highball at 2:00 in the morning and told Holden he was heading for a terrible fall.
He wasn't wrong, but his version of catching Holden looks a lot like teaching him to unify and simplify, which is the thing that broke Richard Kinsella in the first place.
Then Holden said the thing that matters.
He hates Stradlater.
He hates Ackley.
But after a while, if he doesn't see them, he sort of misses them.
His anger was never anger.
It was the loneliness underneath it getting dressed up and going out for the evening.
The people who banned this book need kids to believe that staying on topic is the same as being smart.
Salinger wrote a chapter where the smartest kid in the room is the one whose lips won't stop shaking.
The scary book people have been told their whole lives that they think wrong, talk wrong, care about the wrong things.
They didn't.
The system that graded them was wrong, and every time one of them hits play on this peculiar podcast, I guess that ain't nothing.
Indeed, that might be the whole point.
Standing by for today's news segment with Beowulf Rocklin.
Woo.
It's time for Band Camp News.
Truth seeker, news speaker, Be Wolf Rocklin.
It's a weird name, but he's got good news 'cause you can't ban the truth, babe.
He's broadcasting live from the Good News for Lefties studios, buried deep inside his socialist safe house, hidden somewhere deep in the Oregon woods.
He is Be Wolf Rocklin.
'Cause you can't ban the truth, babe.
Hello, Dan.
Hello, Jen.
Hello, scary book people.
Oy, I love these states across the country that we normally categorize as, oh my gosh, they're conservative, they're red, they're MAGA, they're Trump supporting, they're irredeemable.
No, I say unto you, there are good folks doing wonderful things there, and I bring you another story from Murfreesboro, Tennessee.
Readers who want to access banned books in Rutherford County can still find them thanks to the efforts of a local free speech advocate.
Murfreesboro resident Brendan Donohoe's free library website, borrowbannedbooks.com-
Love it.
Love it, love it, love it yes, please go there, offers access to about 150 titles, including the following four the majority of the Rutherford County Library System Board decided to remove from branches in August 2023.
Flamer.
Ah.
Let's Talk About It.
Ah.
The Teen's Guide to Sex, Relationships, and Being a Human Being.
Ah.
Queerfully and Wonderfully Made: A Guide for LGBTQ+ Christian Teens.
Ah.
And This Book Is Gay.
You sense a pattern here? They're trying to ban the gay- That's right books.
They don't like the LGBTQ+ community, and it's just so frustrating.
They say they're trying to protect children, but they just don't like gay people, that- I think the best name of any banned book, I, I've talked about This Book Is Gay as a title so many times.
I just think it is the best name for a book.
Because it scares them.
It does.
Very scary.
It's like whatever the, uh, Terminator character would be in your brain, imagine that as a big gay Terminator- Yes coming at you, and then the camera zooms in- and you see the smoke, and you don't know what's behind the smoke, and the smoke clears, and all of a sudden it's just a book standing there.
This Book Is Gay.
And all these dumb MAGAs run away because, oh my God, that book is so gay Oh my- Yes God, these morons.
And, uh, and as, and as the gay Terminator is going towards you, even though you've blown him up several times, his eyes are illuminated not in red, but in the colors of the rainbow as he approaches you.
But I, I gotta hand it to Brendan Donohoe and his free library site.
Those backing book banning are pushing a message to tell LGBTQIA people, "You don't belong in this community," Donohoe said.
"It's hurting people.
When you dehumanize people, you end up dehumanizing yourself."
And that's absolutely correct, so bravo to him.
Again, I'm gonna spell it out.
His Banned Books, I- B-O-R-O, bannedbooks.com.
That's where you can obtain those books that have been banned by the Rutherford County Tennessee Library in Murfreesboro, so check that out.
He's doing good work.
He's doing wonderful work, and I, I laud him thereon.
That is some good news as far as I'm concerned.
Everyone go there.
Check out the website.
Uh, another true American hero, a patriot.
This is what patriots look like.
Yes.
Not, not, uh, Trump dressed up like Jesus doctor- or whatever the hell's going on.
Babe, well, we should talk about this.
What about the podcast that your wife does? Yes.
Mm-hmm.
We've mentioned it in the past, but we've never went deep into it.
Let's talk about that.
My wife Lisa does a podcast called Love Doesn't Pay the Bills.
My wife and I are the parents of a young lady with disabilities that we have been raising and have caregiven for for many years, and we continue, as she is an adult now, to be caregivers for her.
And we realize it's great that we're able to do this, but often caregivers, whether they're parents or spouses or family members, they don't get a lot of support, and they need support.
Because everyone who has a disability or a mobility issue, we're human beings.
We get old, and sometimes our bodies don't work so well.
We need caregivers, and caregivers in this society are tremendously undervalued, and that is the focus of Love Doesn't Pay the Bills, supporting caregivers and making sure they can do the critical things that they do.
Because, uh, society often assumes that this person's gonna do it and that pers- person's- Mm-hmm gonna do it.
This is something that Lisa talks about.
So if you go to lovedoesntpaythebills.com
or search for Love Doesn't Pay the Bills on your podcast platform of choice, you can find out more about that.
Love Doesn't Pay the Bills.
Thank you so much.
Yes, sir.
It's an important topic, and I appreciate you allowing me to discuss it here on the show.
Ah, we should do it.
It's an important thing.
It is.
All right, everyone go check out both podcasts.
Mm-hmm.
Love Doesn't Pay the Bills and Good News for Lefties.
You can't ban the truth, baby.
From Bandworthy to Bingeworthy Artificial intelligence is moving very, very fast, and it's raising new questions just about every day about what it is, what it isn't, when all is said and done, what is the endgame? I'm Chris Hayes, and as part of my podcast, Why Is This Happening?, I'm speaking with leading experts each week to help ground that conversation.
We're at, right now in a situation where it's very difficult to understand what is real and what's not real.
Why Is This Happening? The AI Endgame, a special miniseries from MS Now.
Start listening today wherever you get your podcasts.
All right, we've caused enough literary chaos for one day, scary book people.
If you want the fun to keep going, follow us on Blue Sky.
Just head on over to bandcamppodcast.com/bluesky,
and remember that's band with two Ns.
And look, just like the Trump administration, we're not exactly above bribing you to get what we want, so follow us there, drop your handle on that page, and we'll send you a little something something.
I think you'll like it.
Yes, little quid pro quo.
Band Camp is produced and hosted by Dan Schultz and me, Jennifer Davis.
All media used in this episode falls under the protection of fair use.
And finally, America isn't what it used to be, so be careful out there.
And resist when it matters.