Latest / The Hannah Hammond Show / Top Secrets From the World's #1 CRE Broker | Simon Jonna

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Top Secrets From the World's #1 CRE Broker | Simon Jonna · The Hannah Hammond Show

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Tom Brady once said I didn't come this far to only get this
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far. I take losses every day.
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I failed over and over and over again in my life.
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This is why I succeed. If I don't lose, I can't win.
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Every single person that is like the best in whatever it is they
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put their mind to has this incredible ability to handle
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pain. I see pain as a privilege and I
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actually lean into it because I believe that all the answers
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we're looking for lie within our pain.
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Remember, somebody tell me, he said.
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If you leave this firm, he says, you will never survive this
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town, not go to another house and expect to succeed.
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You're from nowhere and nobody cares about you.
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And he threatened me. Just leave commercial real
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estate. Where do you see the biggest
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opportunity in commercial real estate over the next decade?
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You remember how essentials played out during COVID?
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Yeah, the guys with like grocery stores and liquor stores and gas
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stations, right? Medical essentials, you name it.
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Those types of deals, they're not going anywhere.
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If you're really forward thinking then you'll say to
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yourself. Welcome back to the Hannah
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Hammond Show. I'm sitting here with Simon,
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Jonah, and we actually, Jeffrey and I came out here to
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Birmingham, MI, where Jonah lives.
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And you're from Michigan as well, right?
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No Born and raised in San Diego. Oh, San Diego.
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OK, perfect. Well, you now live in in
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Michigan and he is an absolute beast in commercial real estate.
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He's been ranked as the number one real estate broker in the
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entire world. The global award.
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Yep, Global Broker of the year award.
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What was that? Fortunately?
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Well, and it doesn't come easy. So I'm excited to dive into your
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story today and learn how you've done it.
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I know you've represented a lot of clients that have done
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financing, you know, worked with Jeffrey, my partner at HP
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Capital, and we're just super excited to to hear your story
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and, and learn what you've accomplished.
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And something really that stood out to me with you as well is
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you haven't fallen into the just doing one asset class like a lot
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of the bigger commercial firms make you do.
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And you have been able to become an expert in so many different
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asset classes and are now working with international
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clients and just have a massive network and, and have been able
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to do some really tough deals. And you're known for getting
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hard deals done and across the finish line.
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And then you also released your book Diary of a Deal Maker,
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which we'll dive into some of the lessons that you taught
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through that book. But yeah, Simon, thanks for
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being on the show. Thanks for having me.
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Thanks for coming out by the way you're coming from.
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Arizona, yeah. Scottsdale, AZ and I'm actually
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super shocked at how much I love Birmingham.
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I didn't know it existed. It's pretty much to the naked
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eye. You'd be surprised.
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It's it's one of America's best small downtowns.
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And I don't say that out of bias.
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I was born and raised in San Diego, which if you go to the
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gas lamp, it's America's finest city on a big banner when you
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pull in. So, you know, for what it's
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worth, I've been a defender of the Detroit sort of landscape
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for a long time, having been born and raised in California
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and having migrated here. And just looking at it, like I
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said, from a certain vantage point, a certain perspective,
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the reality is there's very deep pockets in Michigan and there's
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a lot of cash trading hands in the form of deal making.
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Yeah. And I think at at at one point
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Oakland County was the 3rd richest county in the country,
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I'd say trilling 10 years ish. Right.
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That's wild. Yeah.
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And, and, and so I come here and I say to myself, man, I'm coming
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from the superhighways, the picturesque, scenic San Diego.
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The quality of life is unsurpassed, unequivocated.
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And before you know it, I'm here and it's like a beautiful
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Midwest heartland with this like lakes region and Oakland County.
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And then Birmingham, like I said, I'll give you a small
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testament to what I mean by Birmingham in terms of the
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greater perspective and not necessarily my bias.
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Birmingham is housing a restoration hardware flag, a net
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lease restoration. If you look at these deals, and
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I want to be accurate, but if you look at Boston, if you look
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at San Francisco, these are 50 + 1,000,000 dollar net lease
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assets that trade accordingly. And they're built ground up and
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they're hyper curated. It's restoration, it's a
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furniture store and they're housing themselves in Birmingham
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of all major metros, gateways, the the primaries essentially is
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not necessarily even a secondary.
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It's a small downtown. It's a greater Bloomfield Hills,
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if you know Bloomfield Hills. I don't, yeah.
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And so restorations going there so, you know, not to, you know,
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exacerbate this, but that's a testament to the strength of
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affluence and marketability as it relates to Birmingham dirt.
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Yeah, it's a great place. I think this is actually my
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first time in Michigan in general so.
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I'll do I sign a little tube pro Birmingham by the.
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Way no, not at all. I love it.
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I'm all for it. I was posting it on my story
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last night. It's a cool.
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You staying at the Daxton? Yeah, yeah.
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So they just rebranded that to a Pureo by Hilton.
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So that's going to go a long way, especially for those who
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are seeking the Hilton discount, so.
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Yeah, it's a cool hotel. See how that goes from all the
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art $200 plus rooms 304 hundred 500 to $70 employee rates.
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But that, that should, that, that, that I, I, I do think it
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needed a rebrand in all seriousness, because the
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independence, the boutiques, they need that pop sometimes as
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much as as much as as much as the thoughtful design and layout
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and mystique goes into the motif of the design.
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It's great and it's urban and it's eclectic and it's live work
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and play and there's walkability, but sometimes it
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could be missing its soul and a brand in terms of relativity
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that Hilton, that Marriott can come in and play that part.
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Yeah, yeah, I know that that and you've done hospitality deals.
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Quite a bit, yeah. So going back to the very
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beginning, I'm always fascinated to understand why and how people
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became who they became. And you've obviously become the
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best in your field of what you're doing and have made
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massive waves in the industry. And So what was what did your
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early days look like and what specific event LED you to
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getting into commercial real estate brokerage?
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Early on I started in San Diego and I wanted to make a name for
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myself in sales. And I said to myself, I had a
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good amount of raw talent, so to speak, in terms of in terms of
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delivery, in terms of communication skills, in terms
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of interacting with others. So I decided to test the water
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and sales. And granted, just like the big
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firms will tell you when I sit down and I interview, it's going
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to take you time to make money in this business.
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And this could be all considerations are rich boys
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business because you're not on salary and there is no income
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stream in essence, until you prove yourself, until you build
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your book, until clients strike a chord with you.
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So that wasn't necessarily the case early on, but I was very
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much bullish in my approach and that that helped me because I
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was bullish in a sense and blinded.
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I didn't know where the light at the end of the tunnel was.
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And I, my, my sales career, you know, it, it, it, it encompassed
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the satellite sales early on, maybe with DIRECTV.
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And it, it, it, it, it evolved in that sense to stockbrokerage.
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I started at a, started at a firm which was ultimately rated
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by the San Diego Sheriff's Department.
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It was a boiler room. The Wolf of Wall Street stock.
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Yeah, yeah. Which was awesome.
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That helped me. That helped me to witness it, to
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literally get asked to leave by a good friend.
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We ended up at a sort of polar opposite setting with like a
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very conservative, I think it was curling Securities in La
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Jolla. This old man dinosaur is kind
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of, you know, coffee in hand. Hey, how you doing?
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As opposed to a Hampton Porter? Preceding that where we were on
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wires, we were, we were at community tables sharing wires
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on, on, on phones. And we were expected to do 3 to
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$400.00 a day. So literally the essence of a
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boiler room, which I've seen countless times.
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And so that experience transcended sort of my thought
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process like, hey, that's out there.
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And that form of up tempo salesmanship is real.
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It's not just, you know, 1 categorically mainstay in terms
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of like a Big Blue chip corporate firm.
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So that helped me in terms of my experience.
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It was very experiential. Were you like a just a natural
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born entrepreneur do you think? Or were your Did your parents
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influence your entrepreneurial tendencies?
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Certainly my dad instilled quite a bit in terms of I'd say not
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necessarily entrepreneurship from the onset, but you know, he
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was very much integrity first. And so at first, you know,
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you're open ears, you're like, you're like the sounding board
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to your dad, because I'm his first born son.
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I'm growing up with him and he he raised me in a pretty unique
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way and and I look back and was a blessing in in disguise, but.
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What do you mean unique? Like how so?
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That's a good question. Yeah.
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So the unique aspect of my upbringing, I'll give you an
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example. I have three other siblings.
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They'd all tie their shoes, go hang out with their cousins,
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hang out with their friends. My mom was very pro family on
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her side and she wanted us around our cousins.
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My dad sort of honed in on me and he said, hey, before you
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leave, Simon's staying with me. My mom would say, what do you
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mean? His cousins are waiting on him,
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They're going to the pool. They say no, no, no, he's
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staying with me for, for whatever reason.
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So I'd sit with them and he'd sit there and talk to me about
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who the anchor was. Ted Koppel, I still remember to
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this day, this guy's generational 2030 years back,
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Sam Donaldson, ABC, Barbara Walters, who, you know, 2020,
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right? And I was sort of abstracting,
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assimilating, acclimating myself to the the world of current
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affairs by way of my dad essentially forcing the issue,
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you know, having to sit down with them.
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And over time, I started to ask questions and I started, I
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started to say to him, what why is it?
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Why is there reverse logic here with the way, for instance, this
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nation's reacting to the other? Or why is it why, why does it
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seem as if America has like this dual track agenda?
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Isn't that a double standard dead.
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And so the psychology in essence, some of it of which was
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philosophy, the ideology, the politics that play on play year
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over year, you know, spoke to that unique factor that you
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asked about. Yeah, and what, what did he do?
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What did your parents do? My father's a professor, so he
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taught at University of Maryland.
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I think he had a stint at Notre Dame, had his thesis at San
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Diego State. So he's very learned.
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He's an academic. He's he's big on, you know, his,
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his scholarly studies. He has upwards of 3000 books in
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his home library. Yeah, yeah.
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So I grew up around that. And then your mom raised the
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kids. Yeah, my mom was a housewife.
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She's phenomenal. She played a huge part in my
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upbringing in a sense that, you know, I wouldn't have the, the,
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the, the persona I do so to speak with relativity, with my
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sense of humor and so on and so forth if it wasn't for my mom,
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because she was that side of it. My dad was like the more
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serious, in depth, lovable, huggable 10 sort of professorial
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type. Yeah.
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Who would you say you had a good like healthy, close relationship
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with? Your parents or.
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Yeah, yeah, very. I think, I think my dad, I had
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misunderstood early on and he was nothing nice, to be honest.
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I mean, he was pretty damn straightforward.
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And you know, if he had to, he'd, he'd spank me.
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Not in the nicest of ways. And you know, that wasn't
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necessarily abuse in my eyes. That was more so his way of like
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habitat, you know, and that's just what I what I grew up with.
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And looking back, I said to myself, man, you know, as as as
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hard as he was on me, you know, tough love is real.
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There's, there's nobody that loves me more than this human
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being, you know, And because I'm looking back on it, I mean, my
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life could have taken any wish route.
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And for what it's worth, I think I was stabilized.
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I was grounded for the right reasons.
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Yeah, yeah. And did your?
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Did I feel suppressed at times? Yes, I did, yeah.
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Yeah. Did you?
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It sounds like your dad really paid a lot of attention to you.
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Yeah. How did that look like growing
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up? Was there like any resistance or
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resentment from your siblings thinking that you got more
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attention? No, I think he loved us equally
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and I think he, he, he paid a good amount attention to all of
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us. I just think, you know the way,
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you know, So he's like first generation immigrant, right?
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And the way they looked at the first son from a traditional
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standpoint, he just sort of wanted to, wanted me to shadow
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him. In essence, he wanted to mentor
13:29
me and he wanted me to echo. Not his sentiment.
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He wasn't trying to force a narrative, but he was.
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He was he, He, he. He wanted me to chart a course
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for myself and he wanted to give me that guidance.
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That's so cool. Yeah, you had that, that
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support. Yeah, I mean, it's a like I
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said, looking back, I was bitching the moaning all the
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time. So for instance, like he was,
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he's this adventurer. He likes like, you know,
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territorial adventures. We drove 45 states by car in in
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like this sedan and he had four of us in the back.
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And my mom and we were always bitching, the moaning.
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But guess what? We were passing through
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Wyoming's Hot Springs, Niagara Falls, Kennedy Space Center in
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Florida, Grand Canyon in Arizona.
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And looking back, it's like, man, I do real estate now and
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like, I have like this intuition towards landscape in a big way
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as it relates to child memories. So at the end of the day, you
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can look at setbacks in the form of strategy.
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Back then, I was a child and I didn't get to enjoy my childhood
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the way I wanted to by essentially loitering and having
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a good old time with with with buddies.
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But as of today, strategic employment plays a part due to
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what I perceived as a set back at that point in time.
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What were some of the biggest failures that you've experienced
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in your career or in your personal life?
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The. Element of perfectionism in
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terms of your pursuit, Tom Brady once said.
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I didn't come this far to only get this far.
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So I take losses every day. I mean, I it's I'm jogging
15:14
memory, but if I'm going to take a loss, what did Michael Jordan
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say, by the way? I failed over and over and over
15:23
again in my life. This is why I succeed, right?
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So he said, and this is somebody who's in my book, by the way,
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who I'm a huge fan of and for multi dimensional reasons, it
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gets pretty deep because of his his his bullish approach to life
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in general. But Jordan once said, I have to
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respect losing because losing comes with winning.
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If I don't lose, I can't win. So if you're not bracing
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yourself for rejection, if you're not that type, you're not
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built for our business, you're not.
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You have to be able to lose. And guess what?
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Losing is opportunistic. Losing is doing damage control.
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Losing is making sense of an open window that maybe you
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didn't see early on. Yeah.
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You know, as I talk to amazing entrepreneurs and individuals in
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general, I have learned that every single person that is like
16:19
the best in whatever it is they put their mind to has this
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incredible ability to handle pain and suffering.
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And it's, you know, I like, I see pain as a privilege.
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And I actually lean into it because I believe that all the
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answers we're looking for lie within our pain.
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And if we don't resist it and we actually embrace it, then we use
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that to help us. Grow.
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That was pretty awesome. Speaking of quotes, that was
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very finite phraseology. Seriously, it lies within the
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pain. What?
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What did Bill Gates once say? He said success is a lousy
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teacher, right? Because smart people think
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there's something to the extent of that quote.
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They have it all figured out. That's what success can end up
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doing to you. So if you don't, if you're not
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looking at it through the lens in multi dimensional fashion, I
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just I just took on success. How do I handle it?
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So what's what's the other not to sound like a walking, talking
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quote book, but what's the idea of getting to the top?
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Or really that's not the end goal.
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It's how to stay there. Right.
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Why are there, why is there financial advisory in this
17:26
world? Because it's preservation of
17:28
wealth, right? And it's permeating that pattern
17:33
in terms of wealth generation. Yeah, it's not just hey, I got
17:37
to the top. I'm new money.
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Let's let's see what comes of it.
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One never ends. Right.
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Well and there is no top. So when you because the goal
17:45
post is always moving. When you speak to pain, that you
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you speak to perspective. Yeah, yeah.
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And, and I think that's really what it comes down to is there
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is no real top, right, because we're always evolving.
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We're always having new breakthroughs.
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Like what was it the guy that they said it was impossible to
18:04
break a 5 minute mile or something like that, and then
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somebody broke it And then as soon as that one person broke
18:09
it, a bunch of people started breaking it.
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Because the real limiting factor is our own mindset and our own
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self sabotaging thoughts and actions.
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No question. Yes, well put again.
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So for what it's worth, somebody's going to break the
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mold. Sometimes I hate to see it
18:24
because Speaking of Michael Jordan, my childhood hero there,
18:27
there's there's others that come along that tend to create a kink
18:32
in his armor in the form of breaking his records.
18:34
I'm a big UFC fan. I don't want my guy, my goal to
18:38
ever assuming he has a flawless record.
18:41
This is John Jones if you watch the UFC.
18:44
I don't want him to come back from retirement.
18:45
I don't want the guy to lose because before you know it, time
18:50
or technology or all of the above gets the best of you.
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What was a big failure? I know we kind of got
18:56
sidetracked there, but what was one of your big failures?
18:58
That was, yeah. I mean, at any point.
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What did you learn from it? I was not happy with the fact
19:05
that I amassed a ton of success. And when I say a lot of success,
19:10
I, you know, I've, I'm, I'm fortunate to be able to say
19:14
this. I don't say this in a pop this
19:16
way whatsoever, but I amassed success at a very young age that
19:20
I didn't think existed, 2223 years old.
19:23
I had tax burdens that I didn't think existed either.
19:26
And that played a part too. Yeah.
19:28
And I went through the motions. I didn't realize.
19:29
I got a call from my accountant saying you owe $390,000 in
19:33
taxes. And I'm like, what?
19:35
What? Well, why do I owe that?
19:36
You know, And this is randomly while I'm out at the bar.
19:39
And I had to course correct. I had to, I, I, I had to
19:45
Commission an IRS attorney who was a friend and he put me on a
19:49
payment plan with the IRS. And this is, as I'm, you know,
19:53
enterprising all over the country and making big bucks.
19:57
This was like 2324 years old and so were you.
20:00
A stockbroker or were you in commercial real estate?
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This is when I was in commercial real estate, OK, Right.
20:04
And so, so, so, so little. Do you realize that?
20:11
What was the gist the premise of our question?
20:13
What was your one of your biggest failures?
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Yeah, so looking back, I amassed all this success and what was
20:21
the one thing I didn't have? Oddly enough, ironically,
20:24
because my dad was a professor, a college degree, I'm like, I
20:27
don't have a four year and I'm sitting here and I'm winning and
20:31
dining at these hot spots. And these guys are from Harvard
20:34
and so and so is from Stanford out in California.
20:38
And they think I'm from some big house is what they what they
20:40
used to call it the Ivy League. You know that that that that
20:46
pedigree. These are your clients that are
20:48
from. Clients and colleagues and
20:50
counterparts, whoever it is, Yeah, clients for the most part,
20:52
but they always thought to themselves, man, Simon has quite
20:59
a bit of depth and it's like unforeseen and it's unbeknownst.
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And he's fairly unassuming. And little did they know, I, I,
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I, I wasn't a graduate. So did I look back on that as I
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amassed even more success and I really established stepping
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stones and building blocks to, to, to, to, to success on top of
21:21
success? Yeah.
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I always said to myself, I don't have this four year and it's
21:24
under everybody's belt. And, you know, there's like this
21:27
pride of ownership to a degree. Yeah.
21:29
So I guess looking back maybe that was a form of failure.
21:33
But guess what? I've graduated as of late.
21:35
Oh, congratulations. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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U of M, University of Michigan. That's awesome Graduate.
21:40
Yep, Yep. So, so I I had to get it done.
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I'm too competitive not to be able to fill the gaps.
21:48
Yeah, it's so interesting to like, reflect on ourselves and
21:50
think of those little things that gnaw at you, like the
21:53
regrets that we have are questioning the paths we could
21:56
have or should have taken. And that's interesting that it's
22:00
stuck with you that much like me, I would be like, who the
22:01
fuck cares? Excuse my language, but.
22:04
You know what's funny? You know what we're hearing
22:06
these days? Like AI is taking over and a
22:10
degree is a degree is lamentable with consideration to say I, I,
22:18
I hate to like, you know, subject lawyers to this, but a
22:23
lot of the paper pushing a lot of the fees, a lot of the PSA
22:26
reviews, is that going to be sidelined because of AI?
22:30
It could very well be. Now lawyers in general, I don't
22:33
think they're going to go away. They said brokers were going to
22:35
go away with the dawn of the Internet.
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And guess what more subsets of industries opened for that
22:41
reason. So the top brokers, they're not
22:43
necessarily going to go anywhere.
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Now brokerage in general, it's, it's, it's going to manifest
22:48
itself. It's going to evolve just like
22:49
retail did, for instance, when we had this recession resistance
22:54
and then along came the e-commerce juggernaut online
22:57
resistance. And then what do you know, 2020
23:00
hits COVID resistance. Guess what happened with retail?
23:03
Yes, there were store closures. Yes, there were consolidations.
23:05
Yes, there were headlines and the hype and the Armageddon.
23:09
But before you knew where they consolidated, it got smarter, it
23:12
got better. As of last year, they're the
23:13
second most rebounding sector following industrial.
23:17
It's crazy. It's so cool.
23:19
Yeah. And I think that's The thing is
23:20
like everything just shifts and evolves.
23:22
It's just back to the industrial revolution when all the farmers
23:24
lost their jobs. Well, it created all these new
23:27
jobs. Historical backdrop.
23:28
Yeah. And so I think the same thing
23:31
with AI, yes, going to take away a lot of the, you know, paper
23:35
pushing white collar type jobs, but it's really just going to be
23:38
used as a tool to elevate, in my opinion, used as a tool to
23:42
elevate what you're already doing and the, and the problems
23:44
that you're already solving. Like we use AI daily in our
23:46
business. Yeah, and holistically, you
23:50
would think that it's Uber advantageous to have AI in
23:54
place. I'm not a big fan.
23:56
I, I, I happen to be a writer by nature.
24:01
I'd like to be able to say without again, sounding bravado
24:04
in any way that I'm, I'm as good as it gets in the form of
24:09
writing. And when I, when I, when I put
24:11
together an AI just for like fluff factor and I and, and I
24:15
want to be able to submit it. I just can't.
24:17
It's too vanilla right now. It's, it's, it's not there.
24:21
There's, there's no, there's, there's no sequence there.
24:26
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's generic.
24:29
So the way I have to be able to do it is I'm, I'm, I'm fine
24:33
tuning my AI delivery if I'm using it.
24:36
But what it's worth, I'd rather start from scratch because of
24:39
all that I have to be able to do to retrofit my AI blurbs.
24:42
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's pretty now.
24:44
Let's say if you're a writer. Granted, if you're not
24:46
necessarily a writer and your social subset in terms of
24:51
speakability and writing and all that good stuff is not your
24:54
Forte. Yeah, AI is great, right?
24:56
But I just, I like AI for reasons being that it's sort of
25:01
past due. It's nice.
25:03
It's really coming to the fold because I think it's going to be
25:06
beneficial if you are cautiously optimistic about it.
25:10
I agree and I think just in the world that we live in and I and
25:13
it doesn't surprise me that retail is doing so well right
25:15
now in this environment. But in the world we live in,
25:18
especially now with AI, the human touch is going to be so
25:22
important over all else because people at the end of the day,
25:25
like people want to connect with people.
25:27
All we really have is connection and each other and the world
25:31
would be. I mean, I don't see what the
25:32
point of life would be if we were all just living in a room
25:36
with AI goggles in this virtual world and didn't have anybody in
25:39
our lives. Like what would be the point of
25:41
existence? And so I think everybody will
25:43
always, no matter what technological advances there are
25:45
in real estate or in any other area, people will always come
25:49
back to the human connection. People will always want to
25:50
gather and meet in places and, and businesses are always going
25:53
to have to operate. So commercial real estate in my
25:55
opinion, and even on the brokerage level is never going
25:57
to go anywhere. No question.
26:00
So the human touch, you're reverberating now, you're
26:04
retrogressing back to what matters.
26:07
You're a finance here, correct? Yeah.
26:08
Tell us a little bit about HP Capital, by the way.
26:11
Yeah. Yeah, if you don't mind, I had a
26:13
point, but I want you to be able to, you know, give us a little
26:16
bit of a plug here. Yeah.
26:17
So I came from 11 years in the commercial real estate brokerage
26:20
side of things. I Yeah, but never to your level,
26:25
never was at a big firm, never represented big clients.
26:27
I was the one stop shop for the 1 to $10 million purchase sale,
26:31
lease, residential commercial, just kind of for the doctor
26:34
client that had a medical office that wanted to sell his house in
26:38
in Arizona. That's.
26:39
Bread and butter. Yeah.
26:40
So it was great because I kept finding everybody was coming to
26:44
me because the bigger firms weren't serving them in the way
26:47
they wanted to be served for their needs and because they
26:49
were just smaller commercial deals.
26:51
And so I was able to. Come, there's a market for that,
26:53
yeah. And yeah, so that's what I did.
26:56
And then about I started buying up real estate at 18, got my
26:59
license at 18. And then about 4 1/2 years ago,
27:03
I started private lending because I had been saving money
27:06
to buy, I wanted to buy a multi family project, but this was
27:08
right when COVID happened that era and it was all cash offers,
27:12
cap rates were super low. I have an engineering degree and
27:15
I was like, these numbers don't make sense.
27:16
I, I don't know much, but these numbers don't work for me.
27:19
And so that's when I started private lending.
27:21
And then I launched a, a debt fund and then decided I wanted
27:24
to do a commercial real estate debt fund, but I needed to build
27:27
the brokerage first. And then that's what led to HP
27:31
Capital, which is now a national debt and equity capital advisory
27:33
firm and partnered up with Jeffrey, who was connected.
27:36
We were connected through a mutual friend of ours and we
27:40
just complement each other so well.
27:41
We're such a good team and I know you've worked with them for
27:43
a long. Time quite a bit.
27:44
Yeah. Jeff's Jeff's a stud and he's a
27:46
practitioner and he knows his his product.
27:50
Yeah, yeah. And that plays a part.
27:53
So Speaking of which. And that was like, I guess the
27:56
thought beforehand before I asked you to hit us with that.
28:00
And by the way, American Dream personified over here.
28:04
With that said, I don't want to extend outreach to AI when it
28:11
comes to you name it, title review, financials, lease
28:14
details. I need intuition.
28:18
I need to run it by Hannah and Hannah needs to say to herself,
28:22
let's assemble a think tank here in terms of the right opinion.
28:28
That is a framework within the right team to be able to get to
28:34
the finish line. AI can only do so much in that
28:37
regard, right? And I get this because I feel
28:41
like I can outwit AI until it ultimately outwits us.
28:46
And maybe that's like a measure of confidence on my part, but
28:50
results speak for themselves. And again, not to sound a
28:53
certain way, but no question in my mind, I don't think AI can do
28:58
what I need it to do in terms of my standards as of present day.
29:02
Yeah, I agree And I don't continue to evolve and we'll
29:05
see, but I'm optimistic and excited about it, so.
29:08
Yeah, so am I. I know some people are saying to
29:10
themselves we're going to have robots running around like T2
29:14
Judgement Day and these AI guys are going to be chasing us down.
29:19
But I, if anything, you shouldn't be a prisoner of hope.
29:24
You know, what comes of it, what becomes of it is what it is.
29:30
And I think we're gonna, there's people like us.
29:34
We're gonna make the most of it. And we might be the luckiest
29:38
generation there is because of AI.
29:40
So again, I love to inject a little bit of optimism.
29:43
Yeah. So take us back to your first
29:47
deal, like you decided to become a commercial real estate broker.
29:50
Where'd you start? What was what did your first
29:52
deal look like? Walk us through that.
29:54
So I migrated from San Diego to Michigan and don't ask why,
30:00
because I've been asked it my entire career.
30:02
Why would you go from San Diego to Detroit?
30:05
But it but it was a story to be told.
30:07
So it's it's, it's part of my, my, my repertoire.
30:11
And and for what it's worth, it played a part to be able to say,
30:16
yeah, I am from San Diego. And guess what?
30:18
I'm pushing product in Detroit now.
30:20
And for what it's worth, there's reasons why I deal as much as I
30:23
deal in New York, more than most of the New Yorkers who aren't
30:26
the biggest fan of me and Miami and these these gateway
30:30
metropolitans, because I have an eye for, for what happens to be
30:35
the best of the best. And guess what, Come pay me a
30:38
visit. Come touchdown, You're here.
30:40
You know, Detroit is not what you think.
30:42
And it was very much, I will say, resuscitating itself pre
30:47
COVID. Detroit had a renaissance going
30:49
on. If I tell you, and I can't
30:51
disclose too much details as it relates to my business on air or
30:56
otherwise, but I had some very, very, very mega personalities.
31:03
These guys, they own farms in LA that produce avocado.
31:09
They own rights to electricity overseas and one of the most lit
31:12
cities in the nation. They own a nameplate to a gym.
31:16
They happen to be the largest landlord and nobody knows.
31:19
And you know the gym and I know the gym.
31:21
They own towers all throughout the the biggest metro there is
31:26
within our national footprint. I think you know where that is.
31:30
And they own the air rights to those towers and they own
31:33
upwards of 100 towers. They're a dynasty.
31:35
And guess what? They had a little bit of
31:37
intrigue. They broached me, you know, here
31:41
in Michigan, they said to themselves what a lot of people
31:44
are saying to themselves. And which is why I'm, you know,
31:47
fortunately successful in my craft because I'm dealing, this
31:51
is just like in third person. I'm dealing with three and four
31:54
casts. I'm dealing with appreciation
31:56
based dirt. I'm dealing with a disposition
31:59
because I want to go from passive.
32:02
I, I want to go from active to passive management.
32:06
This multifamily, I have a massive umpire.
32:09
I own 6700 units. I own 67000 units.
32:13
I own 60 to 70,000 units. Fortunately, we're in that
32:19
playing field when we deal with our constituency and that 60 to
32:23
70,000 units, guess what? You have to be able to carve out
32:26
a chunk of that portfolio because it's a it's, it's, it's,
32:29
it's, it's a mandate as it relates to your estate.
32:32
You need passive management, you need mailbox paychecks.
32:35
Sometimes you can't just go with the go, especially if you're
32:39
dealing with the stepped up basis, especially if you're by
32:42
and large fully depreciated. So what is the biggest trend?
32:46
The nation knows, right? Commoditizing deals, net lease.
32:50
So the great arbitrage. You asked me, Simon, why do you
32:53
specialize in that lease? And multifamily, it's bi
32:55
directional. They complement each other.
32:58
Don't tell me what I specialize in.
33:00
I'm a specialist when it comes to dirt, OK?
33:03
Not just net lease versus multifamily, but because of that
33:07
bi directional continuum, that multifamily seller trading out
33:14
of a three and four cap, guess what they're targeting at the
33:17
end of the day, if they need commoditizing at least,
33:19
especially phototypical homogeneous net lease, it's no
33:22
different. If you pick it up and you put it
33:23
in Miami versus suburban Detroit.
33:26
They're looking for yield. Right or wrong, you tell me.
33:29
Yeah. OK.
33:30
So where's the highest yield territory foreseeably,
33:33
Theoretically 1 of I should say in the country, the Midwest
33:38
would would you surmise? Would you?
33:39
I agree. Would.
33:40
You concur? Yeah.
33:41
OK, so the highest yield territory, the lowest hanging
33:44
fruit happens to be Midwest based.
33:46
So they happen. I I happen to be getting all the
33:48
attention from all the best buyers.
33:50
But you're talking, you're denigrating Detroit.
33:54
You're saying Detroit is downtrodden and Detroit is
33:57
desolate. What the Hell's in Detroit?
34:00
Guess what? If you're not being wrapped by
34:03
somebody who's running with you on your 1031, you're calling me
34:06
and you. And you just might be
34:07
sidestepping that guy. And you're calling me
34:09
nonetheless, because nobody knows this dirt better than I
34:12
do. Point blank.
34:14
You're calling me for those reasons.
34:15
The Midwest is my backyard. And the Midwest is spotlighted
34:20
for those reasons. Well, and and then you've done
34:23
deals All in all 50 states the right or more than 30.
34:26
States upwards of all 50. I don't think we've underwritten
34:29
a bunch of stuff in Alaska, but I don't think we necessarily
34:33
closed. I know you might think I haven't
34:36
closed in Hawaii, but I have and, and pretty gargantuan sized
34:42
deal, a Multiplex of office product mid rises all across the
34:47
board. It's like you shouldn't even be
34:49
saying that because it's, it's like if you look at a bird's
34:52
eye, it's pretty obvious. But yeah, I traded in Hawaii and
34:56
I'd say upwards of 50 states now.
34:58
So I got to got to find a way to get back to to Alaska somehow.
35:03
Yeah, I'm sure you'll find a way.
35:05
I will. But but what?
35:06
What did your first deal look like?
35:07
How did you get your first deal? Because I know in commercial
35:09
real estate, because I started at commercial real estate, it's
35:13
not easy to get business. So like, how did you break into
35:16
the industry and build your business?
35:18
What was your? 1st, it's not an easy business,
35:20
it's not a glorious business and they throw you to the wolves no
35:24
matter what they say, you know, sink or swim at the end of the
35:27
day. Yeah, and which is why a donor
35:30
group, I try to, I, I'm not going to cuddle you, but I try
35:34
to get you to shadow me. I try to get you to go through
35:37
what I didn't have the opportunity to capitalize on.
35:41
I didn't have that mentorship. It was more like everybody was
35:44
out for themselves. And it was a good thing because
35:45
I, I come from like a wars, the war zone days of brokerage.
35:49
And no. And nobody was as was as, you
35:52
know, cuddly. But these days, if you come in,
35:56
you, you've got high accountability, that's expected,
35:58
high expectations. We have the ultimate standards
36:01
because we have the ultimate clients and the ultimate deals.
36:03
So it's nothing nice. You know, we're going to spill
36:07
critique juice all over you and, and, and, and don't think we're
36:11
going to kiss and hug you. We're not.
36:13
But at the end of the day, we've got your back.
36:15
You know, there's, there's a, there's an element of loyalty
36:17
there. It's close knit.
36:18
It's like family, you know, and it's so in essence, bound by
36:23
confidentiality. A lot of our dealings, we, we,
36:26
we have a lot of chatter like Jonah group.
36:28
The billboards are everywhere. Simon's headshot this and that.
36:32
They're they're, they're the the gossip train, the rumor mills.
36:36
They're going to say we're involved in this deal and we
36:37
might be, and they're going to say they're not just evolved.
36:39
They're packaging this deal, they're syndicating this deal,
36:42
they're doing the construction or they're facilitating the
36:45
ground game for the construction on this deal.
36:47
We just might be for what it's worth.
36:48
But because you're in our office, guess what?
36:52
We don't, we don't appreciate leaks.
36:54
We keep it as tight knit as we possibly can, as as if it
37:01
matters to us the most. But really we're acting a
37:03
representative capacity of our clients and their dealings and
37:06
that's what matters most. We're serving their interests.
37:08
So very confidential, no matter what you hear from the outside
37:11
looking in was my point. And very close knit, very family
37:16
oriented. And back to your question, if I
37:18
can touch on the rest of this, what was it?
37:20
What? How'd you get your first deal?
37:22
Yeah. So back to my first deal, SO.
37:24
The weave, The Trump. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
37:26
Yeah, yeah. Apologies if I sound like a
37:29
rigmarole. No, you're good.
37:31
First deal was very cookie cutter in terms of a net lease
37:35
deal, credit, all that good stuff.
37:38
Multiple offers, Fluid climate, 2006, 2007 ish.
37:43
I did that deal right, But guess what?
37:45
That was really what emblematized my whole career.
37:50
That was an at least deal. It was a Panera Bread, by the
37:52
way. Were you representing WE?
37:54
Became one of the most prolific Panera Bread traders along with
37:57
Starbucks and along with CBS and weapons and rite aids and and
38:00
and numerous nameplates and tenants.
38:02
But we were doing Panera Breads prolifically.
38:04
That was my first deal and and my point is it spoke to it
38:08
emblematized nationally what we massed enterprise.
38:12
The story was told at least. Yeah, that was my first deal.
38:15
What? Who'd you represent and how'd
38:16
you get the client? Client was a private capital
38:19
client developer by trade. He's really, he's really evolved
38:25
since he's doing public private partnerships.
38:27
He's killing it. He's getting into data centers,
38:30
which is very, very hot to trot right now.
38:32
Speaking of AI, don't give away too much, Hannah.
38:35
You might have to cut this clip out, but he's formidable and I'm
38:40
very, very proud of him. But I did my first deal with
38:42
him. He gave me a Kmart box that was
38:45
operational at the time, but they were withering and on their
38:48
way out. So I don't think that deal ever
38:50
traded. And there you go, success loss.
38:53
You listed it or. What became of that?
38:55
Yeah, right. And how do you meet him?
38:57
Cold call. Cold called him.
39:00
I had a debt database and really, you know, that speaks to
39:05
as of today, we're very proud and we don't speak of this much
39:08
and we don't necessarily need to because you know, it's
39:11
conflicting and we don't like giving away too much of our
39:14
secret sauce. But systems and processes,
39:18
organizational infrastructure, database, all of that in place.
39:23
I take that very seriously to a teeth hyper evolve it and I'm
39:28
set to incorporate AAI in it too, by the way.
39:31
But I had a little bit of a database back then.
39:34
I was early on young guy and I cold called him and I said, you
39:39
know what? I, I had a good way of asking
39:42
how, you know, if they wanted to sell like, hey, would you sell
39:45
it? That just sounded too cliche for
39:47
me. And, and I had a really good
39:49
backdrop with like stockbrokerage and all this
39:51
fancy cold calling. So I said, so I call him and
39:54
this is not like verbatim, but I call on a net lease guy and say
39:58
you own the the the Panera Bread at at such and such St.
40:04
ABC St. What are your thoughts or let me
40:07
ask you this, have you contemplated at all as of late,
40:10
considering the climate selling? And then a dead silence.
40:14
And then if I can get a little bit of engagement, a little bit
40:17
of conversation instead of go F yourself, then that was my
40:22
window of opportunity. I've got him on the phone, he's
40:26
talking to me and this is a cold call.
40:28
I'm coming out of nowhere. Right.
40:31
Yeah. So.
40:32
That's so cool. That was my first deal.
40:34
Yeah, I I just never liked cold calling, but I, I did, you know,
40:40
I built my businesses from a, from an in person approach
40:43
because that's what I love. But I mean.
40:45
I, I, I, I love it too. And as you can see, I mean,
40:48
we're both very, we're like, you know, very social, so social
40:52
like types. And I, I can appreciate where
40:55
you're coming from, but that generation was like all about
40:59
the phones. And that was like sort of, you
41:03
know, my habitat at the time, that was my upbringing, the
41:06
phones, the phones, the phones. But I, I, I did realize
41:09
ultimately and in my sector, investment real estate, which I
41:14
think is the most sophisticated form of brokering because of our
41:19
product, it's almost like, I like to say this sometimes it's
41:22
almost like stock brokering real estate because I'm still a desk
41:25
jockey and I'm on the phones. I'm not, you know, holding
41:29
hands. I'm not showing you the space.
41:30
I'm not a leasing agent and I'm, I'm an investment sales broker.
41:36
So a lot of it has to do with yields and formulas.
41:41
And for what it's worth, I mean, look, it's multi pronged estate
41:44
planning, your next move, your tax arbitrage, all this fun
41:48
stuff that really financial advisory and stockbrokerage
41:51
deals with. So we're in essence stockbroker
41:54
in real estate. And I like to tell newbies
41:57
coming into the business like, hey, you might want to get your
42:00
feet wet with leasing or property management as opposed
42:04
to jumping in to investment sales.
42:06
But you know, to each his own. Some are like, hey, I'm most
42:10
intrigued by investment sales and, you know, I've got some pep
42:13
on my step and I'm going to prove you wrong, buddy.
42:16
Yeah. And I, I obviously, you know,
42:18
if, if I'm absorbing that, I can only respect it.
42:22
What do you think is your edge? Like what do you do different
42:25
than other people that have made you so successful?
42:28
I'm no nonsense. I I cut the noise, no BS.
42:32
I'm very client centric. I'm very, very result oriented.
42:35
And I'm going to say this for the second time on this podcast.
42:38
Results speak for themselves. So I'd like to be able to say my
42:41
referral network and my multibillion dollar track record
42:44
play a part. But results ultimately you're
42:47
only as good as your last deal. So if I get a deal done and I
42:51
call you and I say, Hannah, I just traded, I listed as of late
42:56
a $90,000,000 asset. It's, it's, it's in the soft
42:59
launch stages. But if I get it done, guess
43:03
what? I'm looking back in retro in
43:05
retrospect and saying to myself, I've closed bigger deals than
43:08
than that, but I just got this done in real time and the
43:13
landscape's not the same, OK? They've muddied the waters with
43:19
these damn interest rates, these spiking treasuries, this, this
43:24
new administration, which I think is for the most part, and
43:28
I don't want to inject politics here for we're thinking it's
43:32
just the tables have turned, so you have to be able to adapt.
43:35
It's not about who's in office, OK, whether it's Sleepy Joe,
43:39
oops, did I say that or The Donald, right.
43:43
At the end of the day, you have to be able to pivot, OK?
43:46
You have to be able to understand what is disrupting
43:49
the industry and how can I take advantage of that.
43:53
And how have you been able to navigate the winds of change per
43:57
SE as interest rates have perpetually remained higher than
44:02
they were and people, you know, got spoiled with how they were
44:04
for a short period of time? And then the tariffs and just a
44:07
lot of credit card debt overspending.
44:10
A lot of people are over leveraged and maxed out right
44:11
now. And like, how do you handle some
44:13
of those objections from your clients?
44:15
Like the prices are too high, rates are too high, I'm going to
44:17
wait or whatever. Or even sellers not coming down
44:20
on prices because they're still unrealistic about cap rates.
44:22
Like how have you navigated that over the past couple years?
44:24
Man, you just like you hit it on the nail.
44:27
I mean, that's what's taking place.
44:28
Yeah. Yeah.
44:29
So look, you have to have a maturation level in this
44:33
business and there's there's cycles and you have to connect
44:36
the dots point blank. I mean, if you don't get that,
44:38
then you know, there's what is it peaks and troughs, right?
44:43
If you look at the chart, looks like sharks, sharks teeth,
44:46
right? That was stock brokerage by the
44:47
way, so. Yeah, higher highs or?
44:50
Lower lows, highs and lows, right?
44:52
So they say, I like to say, I've said this before, I'm a very old
44:57
man. From my young age in this
44:59
business, I've seen all the cycles, OK?
45:02
And I'm not one of all due respect.
45:05
The older guys behind the desk, we like to categorize them as
45:09
what dinosaurs. You said that, not me.
45:10
No, OK, that was you. So that that was the generation
45:13
though, a brokerage, the older guys, right?
45:15
And they look down on you if you're coming in and you're
45:18
seeing if you can make a quick buck.
45:20
They said to themselves, oh, they don't get it.
45:21
This is career driven, you know, it's relationship oriented.
45:25
This young punk thinks he's a fast talker, this and that.
45:28
So back to the premise of the question.
45:31
How have you navigated the changing policies and the
45:34
difficult environment that we're in right now?
45:36
Yeah, yeah. So, so I, I, I, I look at this
45:40
business in a sense that if you haven't seen the cycles and it's
45:45
going to piss you off. We like to say these brokers,
45:49
these newbies, these new bloods, these neophytes, they like to
45:52
transition from when the, when, when the market goes bad, it's
45:57
just like a coinage. But from brokers to bus drivers,
46:00
they're going to step into any given industry, right?
46:03
To make sense of making a living.
46:05
You can't blame them, OK? Because our business is nothing
46:08
nice. It's as cutthroat as it gets.
46:10
I know first hand when it comes to my counterparts and my
46:13
competition and my clients, OK, Royalty is fickle.
46:18
Just a heads up. I think you might be.
46:19
Aware I'm highly. Aware.
46:21
So. So it's just, it takes a lot of
46:24
patience to understand what the hell is taking place right now,
46:28
you know? And 22, if I tell you what kind
46:30
of year I had, you might not believe me.
46:33
Outside girls, whatever it is, I'm not trying to get into
46:36
numbers. I'm not supposed to in my
46:37
position. I wouldn't be who I am if I'm
46:40
just dropping numbers on people. But if 22, it was a heyday, 23,
46:45
all of a sudden we're frozen. We're relatively frozen.
46:47
We've got rolling business clients constituency 50 states,
46:51
we're good, but it's like, man, if you need a lifestyle change
46:55
at that point and I'll be hung in the business, it's scary.
46:58
It's like, it's like, you know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I consummate a
47:04
big closing in August, but my doctor buddy who's clearing, you
47:10
know, 100,000 a month, OK, is has like this, this consistency
47:18
level of income. I am sporadic.
47:22
I got to close this, I got to close this, I got to close that.
47:24
Fortunately, in my world, I've developed that continuum just
47:28
like a doctor in terms of pipelining and that mentality
47:32
and understanding. I have to have rolling escrows,
47:35
30 of them. I have to have rolling listings,
47:38
I believe 120 plus right now. Krexi, fortunately the world's
47:42
largest investment platform, gave us a #1 sale listing broker
47:45
nationwide, which was a nice testament to our drive.
47:50
You know, I don't want to be looked at the Costco, the
47:53
inventory giant of commercial real estate brokerage, but we
47:56
have a ton of inventory and a lot of it is not offing off the
48:01
shelves immediately. And, and because we have a
48:04
unique sweet spot even for top brokerages, we do a lot of big
48:08
deals. And look, it's not to say that
48:11
big deals matter, OK? That's, that's very
48:14
one-dimensional. It's short sighted to say I do
48:16
50 million, I do $200 million deals, I do $300 million deals,
48:20
great. But guess what, you can have a
48:21
sweet spot with three to $5,000,000 deals and do better
48:25
than the best of them, OK, because you have a business
48:27
plan, right? And you're perpetuating that
48:31
business plan and your branding it.
48:34
So we do a lot of big deals and that hasn't exactly been
48:36
conducive to 7% interest rates because every incremental
48:40
increase, every basis point bit spike plays a part on on a $200
48:45
million deal. OK, Now am I saying that we're
48:49
subjecting ourselves to big deals?
48:50
No way. We do everything under the sun.
48:53
We do high volume net lease, we do multifamily across the board
48:57
and we cross pollinate all of that.
48:59
But we've been known in trailing years, I'd say since 2020 ish to
49:05
do large price point deals. OK, We have 120 plus listings on
49:11
market right now. I don't know if another broker
49:13
can speak to that. Maybe they can depending on the
49:15
specialty. We have 190 off market.
49:18
A lot of this will move off the shelves ideally once Mr. Powell
49:24
decides to make an announcement, right?
49:27
And I hope it's not just 25 bips.
49:29
I hope he's giving consideration to maybe 50 I, I don't know if
49:33
it's going to go back to the ways of old.
49:35
Yeah, I don't think. But I, I.
49:37
Can't. Yeah, it'd be a shit show.
49:39
That could be the case, right? Yeah, right.
49:41
Just just like they say, No offense to my crypto guy, he's
49:44
back here, but if Bitcoin goes to 1,000,000 a coin, isn't that
49:48
like quote UN quote a shit show at that point?
49:50
No, I don't think so. And everybody has Bitcoin.
49:53
So do I, yeah, Speaking of digital real estate, but the the
49:59
idea of 2 and 3% interest rates reflectively based on a 200 or
50:03
250 BIP spread on the treasuries, the five year and
50:06
tenure, is that what we go by you know better Hannah.
50:08
So what we go by the five and tenure in our business, OK.
50:11
So reflective of two to three and two to 3% rates, I'm going
50:15
to town at that point, I'm refinancing everything, my
50:19
commercial portfolios, the apartments I'm going, I'm
50:23
pinpointing the house I'm building at the moment.
50:27
So it might be unlucky if I unless I can get perm debt on a
50:30
refi as I build. But you know, everybody's going
50:33
to go to town at that point. They're going to have a window
50:37
to like right size their debt, to reappropriate their debt
50:41
because a lot of it is lackluster, it's no good and
50:45
it's rolling. There's a lot of that in the
50:46
headlines rolling dead coming up in commercial.
50:49
Oh yeah, the trillion dollar the.
50:50
Trillion dollar this and that I see it all, I see it all.
50:53
I upkeep very much. I like to you know, stay
50:57
informed. It's just my passion really.
50:59
I want to know what the latest is in terms of like ground level
51:02
deal making, who's doing this deal, why, who's chasing this
51:05
deal, who's partnering up, who's venturing?
51:07
And some of it is just hearsay and some of it is actuality.
51:12
And I and, and and that's just my level of passion for this
51:18
business. I like to upkeep in terms of
51:20
informational output, what's out there, what's taking place, the
51:22
latest trends, the hot to trot tenants, the tendencies, the
51:25
durabilities, you name it. What is your outlook on the
51:29
economy over the next, you know, 13510 years?
51:32
Documentation. Real estate, yeah, I.
51:34
I I I I think. And looking at the market.
51:37
I'm going to fault Michigan right now.
51:39
Don't think I'm that from Michigan, but I am.
51:41
I really am. A lot of the, a lot of the, I
51:44
don't like to say this because people like to say Simon said
51:48
this, but a lot of the brokerage community, and maybe our buddy
51:52
Jeff Harris knows who's a good buddy of mine, HP Capital over
51:55
there, a lot of the brokerage community is doom and gloom
52:00
sometimes, you know, and they, and I'm coming from California,
52:04
it was like they're painting a picture of roses and it's like,
52:07
yeah, take this down and pay 30% inflationary pricing and have at
52:13
it. I come here and they're like,
52:15
man, somebody got a deal done in this town and it's like, I, I
52:21
had to be able to find that happy medium and understand that
52:24
I don't get as much velocity as the California guys do.
52:28
That's what they love because you know, they're a, they're a
52:31
universe, right? I'm going to take advantage of
52:34
what I'm working with. That's the best I can do.
52:37
That's where I'm at. So make the best of it, buddy,
52:40
right. So, so because of that, I'm an
52:45
eternal optimist. I'm not a prisoner of hope like
52:48
a lot of these brokers are. I really AM.
52:51
And I think that short term, mid term, long term, the economy
52:57
will uphold itself. I think it's policy driven am IA
53:00
fan not to uncheck politics of the tariffs.
53:04
That's a whole different dialogue.
53:07
I think in a lot of ways to reinforce our national identity
53:13
in the form of I guess in the favor of the administration, a
53:17
populist approach, but moreover A nationalist approach.
53:20
I don't think it's a bad thing. I think we're we're cutting into
53:23
our fair share. OK.
53:25
So nobody can really argue that no matter what side of the alley
53:28
you're on. And I consider myself overall a
53:30
moderate, right. But you can't argue that, you
53:33
know, if it's advantageous to us, you're here.
53:35
OK, Unless you're anti American, that's OK.
53:38
Go burn a flag. You won't jail for a year.
53:40
Did you see that executive order the other day?
53:42
Yeah. Yeah.
53:43
So I I'm, I'm, I'm a patriot. It's like in my DNA, it flows
53:48
through my veins. And I'm, I'm optimistic, you
53:52
know, in terms of it where this country goes, I just think the
53:55
rest of the world follows. And I hope to answer your
53:58
question in coming months. It only gets better, especially
54:02
as it relates to our transactional business.
54:04
And I think in general, we will uphold ourselves.
54:07
We will manifest our destiny. And that is a greater America as
54:12
we go. Yeah.
54:12
Yeah, I think did. That sound too altruistic
54:15
because I didn't intend to go there, but I just think we're
54:18
gonna have bumps in the road and you always will.
54:20
Yeah. Right, Yeah, I think the real
54:22
pros shine in every market and go.
54:26
See, you just capsized it for me, man.
54:29
I, I just like went on and on and on and you just like sort of
54:32
put it in perspective, put it in a box.
54:34
I like that. Well, it's just like you said, I
54:36
mean some people like in, in brokerage, it's very well known
54:40
when the market's good, everybody thinks they're pro.
54:42
Everybody's like I'm on top of the world.
54:43
I can do this. I'm an overnight.
54:45
Especially our business. Yeah.
54:47
And then as soon as the market turns, you know, 80% of the
54:50
brokers are gone. And I love those times because
54:53
wipes out all the competition and allows you to continue to
54:55
rise to the top. But yeah, real pro so.
54:58
Those guys, Bamoose. Yeah.
55:00
They're they're never to be seen.
55:02
Oh yeah. Until the rebound.
55:04
Yeah. But it's it's fun.
55:06
It's always fun to learn and grow.
55:07
And like I try to study more of the macroeconomic trends and
55:10
cycles. And there is a lot of concern
55:13
from some economists out there that the macroeconomic cycle is
55:18
coming to a difficult time. So when you say that, are you
55:21
talking about the national debt, are you speaking to the recent
55:26
inflation, Are you speaking to consumer confidence or really
55:30
just all of the above? All the above, Yeah, because I
55:33
watch a lot of podcasts. I watch the All In podcast as
55:36
one of a whole bunch of different things that I watch.
55:37
Economists and all that. And who was I watching?
55:40
Ray Dalio? I was watching Ray Dalio's
55:42
interview like a week ago and he was talking about the the the
55:47
once in a lifetime cycle, like the 100 year cycle.
55:49
We have these, you know, seven-year, 4 to 10 year cycles,
55:53
whatever, and then we have the longer grander cycles and I
55:56
think he was expressing some concern.
55:58
So is that like the industrial revolution type of cycle?
56:02
Basically, yeah, like revolutions that come, come in.
56:05
But I, I don't, I'm not an economist, so I don't know too
56:09
much about all those stuff, all those things.
56:11
But it's just interesting to see.
56:12
Some people are very bullish on the near future and some people
56:16
are like very bearish. And ultimately nobody knows
56:20
where it's going to end up or where it's going to shake out.
56:22
But I just know if you are doing the best that you possibly can
56:27
and you're growing every single day and you're operating with
56:29
integrity and passion for what you do and the people that you
56:33
serve, you are always going to rise.
56:35
Oh. Great, great.
56:37
Well put. Thank you.
56:38
Yeah, so I want to talk about your book Diary of a Deal Maker.
56:41
I haven't read it yet, but I'm going to your I'm going to have
56:43
to have you sign it for me, but can you walk through some of the
56:46
core lessons that you taught in this book?
56:49
Yeah, there's quite a bit, but high level, it's a lot of the
56:53
hurdles that I went through, a lot of the naysayers, a lot of
56:57
the contrarian viewpoints on really me and my abilities and
57:03
my decision making, venturing out and migrating and getting
57:08
into this business. I had somebody tell me,
57:10
remember, I had somebody tell me and this gentleman knows who he
57:13
is. He said, if you leave this firm,
57:17
this was like my inception in the commercial real estate.
57:20
He says you will never survive in this town.
57:23
You cannot go to another house and expect to succeed.
57:28
You're from nowhere and nobody cares about you.
57:31
And, and I was, I grew up a little bit thick skinned.
57:36
So it's just like it didn't hit me that way.
57:38
I, I know the, the, my, sort of like my, my team there, my, the
57:48
other newbies or the one of them was a girl.
57:51
She, she was, she took it very emotional.
57:53
She was very hurt the way they treated us.
57:56
So I just looked at him like in my mind, like, I'm not going to
57:59
react because he has a point. I'm not going to, I'm not going
58:03
to, you know, ever. I'm not going to stir up drama
58:07
in this town because I'm here to make myself.
58:10
I, I, I took it that seriously. So I just like that.
58:13
I'm as if, are you done? Are you done now?
58:15
You know, and, and he threatened me in essence, like just leave
58:19
commercial real estate. So I sort of touched on that in,
58:23
in the book, the hurdles and then I get into hence the
58:28
hurdles and the hustle, the hustle and the hustle is the fun
58:32
part, but the hustles like sort of calculated too.
58:35
I mean, the hustle has so many different aspects to it.
58:39
The hustle is like you said, what's your take on losses and
58:42
your biggest loss? That's part and parcel.
58:45
If you don't lose, you don't win.
58:47
What do you think's your number one attribute to your success?
58:50
Like a character trait in you or your your unique gift and
58:54
ability that other people don't have.
58:56
I'd. Like to be able to say it's a no
58:59
nonsense approach and I am able to relate to somebody I can
59:04
learn from. I think that matters.
59:06
I think if you can sit at a table, somebody superior to you,
59:12
somebody who you think you want to be someday, maybe to some
59:16
extent in terms of their success or in terms of, I don't know,
59:20
however you look at it, their lifestyle or accomplishments.
59:24
But if you can sit there and you can absorb and carry on a
59:27
conversation and it's a he's a he or she is a mutual
59:32
benefactor, then you can go places in life.
59:35
And I think I have that ability if I'm to, you know, if I'm the,
59:39
you know, say that about myself. But yeah, relationship oriented
59:44
very it's not the product, it's the partner.
59:48
Somebody said that by the way. Yeah, it's the partnership.
59:50
It's not a transaction. I mean, you can go do $100
59:53
million deal, right? What are we going to make, Jeff,
59:55
what do you charge on that? Like 5 points, yeah, 5,000,000
59:58
bucks. So we take our 5,000,000 bucks
1:00:01
and our is, does the thread go along at that point, right.
1:00:04
We're getting taxed on the 5 million, right.
1:00:06
What's our tax bracket like 60% or something like that.
1:00:10
So we're left with. What is that?
1:00:13
2,000,000 bucks, right? 40% on 5 million, am I right?
1:00:19
Yeah, yeah, 2,000,000 bucks. And so I'm net 2 million.
1:00:22
I'm ahead of all my peers. I'm living life, I'm feeling
1:00:25
good. Do I spend it?
1:00:27
Do I invest it? It's like sort of like, you
1:00:30
know, it's a personification of what we do.
1:00:32
Like, do we want to perpetuate our success or do we want to
1:00:37
broadcast it? No.
1:00:38
We want to make the most of it. We don't want to get to the top.
1:00:41
We want to learn how to stay there.
1:00:42
Have you, do you invest in your clients deals or Yeah.
1:00:47
Yeah. And I don't necessarily
1:00:50
publicize that, but I'm a deal junkie.
1:00:53
So if they're going to ask me to invest because they have the
1:00:56
ultimate confidence in me as a partner and as a consultant,
1:00:59
see, I'm not just an order taker.
1:01:01
I'm not there for collecting fees.
1:01:04
So the client can call me and tell me what to do.
1:01:06
Ideally, you know, he's taking heed on my guidance, my
1:01:09
advisory, my experience. And if that's the case, then
1:01:12
it's mutual. Yeah.
1:01:13
And before you know it, partnerships are an evolution.
1:01:17
It is what it is. It's a.
1:01:18
It's a byproduct of that type of relationship.
1:01:22
And then are you buying your own real estate as well, correct
1:01:25
like your with? Your yeah.
1:01:26
So yeah. So I decided to delve into
1:01:30
multifamily and I have very fortunately humbly speaking
1:01:37
pretty good sized portfolio multiple a multi 100 unit
1:01:42
portfolio and that's personally owned in conjunction with my
1:01:46
brother-in-law and my brother and we spearhead that.
1:01:50
And then I've invested in syndications and passing with
1:01:55
relationships and clients that I value.
1:01:58
And if I can be that value add in terms of an investment piece,
1:02:01
I will be, even if sometimes I'm not as inclined, if they're a
1:02:04
really good client and you know, I want to be part of their inner
1:02:10
circle and you know, their, their, their, their forward
1:02:15
motion and their success, then I'll invest.
1:02:18
I'm vested. Consider me vested, right?
1:02:20
I mean, I'm not mandated to do so, but I'm in those types of
1:02:23
deals. I'm in the multi and I'm in I'm
1:02:27
in ground up the, you know, very unique creative solution that's
1:02:34
remedied to deals such as public private partnerships.
1:02:37
I'm in those on university campuses and I've done ground up
1:02:42
with a partnership in the urban core, the live work play, the
1:02:46
urban schematic and so development multi subset of
1:02:51
shopping centers and syndications that, you know,
1:02:54
range from anything to medical. I'd say office really, really
1:03:01
sought after highly desirable office.
1:03:03
I'm not the biggest fan of office, but if it's in that,
1:03:05
like I said that that urban core, then I think it pays
1:03:09
dividends long term retail and apartments on my bread and
1:03:13
butter. So yeah, I'm invested in in many
1:03:17
deals over the years and and and and it's nice.
1:03:21
It's nice to be able to diversify, you know, eventually
1:03:23
because my bread and butter is brokerage.
1:03:26
I run a full time national brokerage.
1:03:28
I don't have the luxury of operating, you know, a gas
1:03:33
station or doing something else on the side.
1:03:37
So ideally if I'm in plazas and apartments, it's more of a
1:03:41
passive income. It's more of a paper pushing.
1:03:43
I have a management company in place and that's, that's my form
1:03:47
of diversification. You know, there's other buckets,
1:03:49
obviously, you know, there's life insurance and there's stock
1:03:52
market brokerage, bonds and munis and treasuries.
1:03:57
It's nice to be able to have buckets, right?
1:03:59
So that's my, that's my real estate bucket, My Portfolio,
1:04:04
right? And growing and scaling.
1:04:05
I'm big on scale, big on scale and startups, I'm investing in
1:04:10
those too. And where's my crypto guy?
1:04:14
Somewhere over there, crypto, no question.
1:04:16
I'm, I'm, I'm not, I'm not opposed to crypto.
1:04:18
I'm not, I'm not a mad genius when it comes to crypto.
1:04:22
But I mean, based on what I'm hearing and based on the way the
1:04:25
market's going in crypto, digital currency can certainly
1:04:29
prove to be part of our future. Yeah, I agree.
1:04:32
I'm I'm long. On So moral of the story?
1:04:34
Diversification. Yeah.
1:04:36
Where do you see the biggest opportunity in commercial real
1:04:38
estate over the next decade? I see go long on durability.
1:04:42
So do you remember how essentials played out during
1:04:46
COVID? Yeah, the guys with like
1:04:49
literally like grocery stores and liquor stores and gas
1:04:53
stations, right? Essentials.
1:04:54
So if you look at medical, all-encompassing medical, really
1:04:58
high level, ground level, you name it, those types of deals,
1:05:02
they're not going anywhere. Groceries not going anywhere.
1:05:05
Essentials will play a part. Now, if you're really forward
1:05:08
thinking, then you'll say to yourself, AI is going to play a
1:05:12
huge part in real estate and data centers is the place to be.
1:05:17
I'm getting my feet very wet with data center development at
1:05:20
the moment. Again, you might want to cut
1:05:22
that part out because we don't want to give away too much, but
1:05:25
that that that essential output in terms of whether it's
1:05:30
experiential, whether it's can, can you combat it?
1:05:33
Can, can, can, can e-commerce prove to be a disruptor?
1:05:37
If it can, can it consolidate and integrate and get smarter?
1:05:40
If not, then you know, real estate in the form of a dwelling
1:05:46
multifamily. I don't necessarily think that's
1:05:48
going anywhere. I know Cardone likes to say, you
1:05:51
know, it's like the God sent and he likes to benefit himself if
1:05:55
you send him 5 bucks or 500 bucks or 5000 bucks.
1:05:59
But that said, I don't, I think multifamily, I think this, I, I,
1:06:03
I think we live in a renter's nation and I think housing is
1:06:07
like, you know, it's, there's a lot of juxtapositioning with the
1:06:11
idea of owning a house today. It's not as easy.
1:06:15
And you know, you should be so fortunate to be within a single
1:06:18
family resident these days. And if and if not if, if, if
1:06:21
you're preferential towards running, you are for the right
1:06:24
reasons because it makes sense depending on your situational
1:06:30
environment and your career and the idea of your lifestyle.
1:06:35
Cool. I know we got to, we got to wrap
1:06:38
up here, but what 2 two final questions.
1:06:42
Number one, what keeps you up at night?
1:06:44
Isn't that what we just talked about?
1:06:46
Feel like what's your biggest your biggest fear in your life?
1:06:49
I really am just like more of a traditional backbone.
1:06:53
So I think about my kids, think about my family, my wife, think
1:06:57
about their well-being, their welfare.
1:06:59
I want to be that protector provider.
1:07:02
That's really what it comes down to at the end of the day, as
1:07:04
much as we have going on in our lives.
1:07:07
So it's family and you know, the the things that keep me up at
1:07:12
night are the things that that drive me at the same time.
1:07:17
So it's where can I get and why, right?
1:07:21
Like we talked about Tom Brady said, I didn't come this far to
1:07:24
only come this far. And so I don't, I'm not a
1:07:28
proponent of retirement. I don't know if you are.
1:07:30
No, I I love what I do. Yeah, I know back in like the
1:07:32
industrial age, retirement was like the go to that was the
1:07:36
destination, you know, riding off into the sunset.
1:07:40
But that that, that that's not me.
1:07:42
I I see guys that I admire. They're in their 80s and they're
1:07:46
and they're, you know, they're they're they're killers.
1:07:50
They're deal makers. And they're on the phones.
1:07:52
Whether they're the chairman, whether they're sitting on a
1:07:54
backdrop, whether they're shadowing their offspring at the
1:07:56
company, they're still doing deals.
1:07:58
Yeah. And they might not have to do
1:08:00
deals. There you go.
1:08:02
There you go. So that man's, what, 80 years
1:08:04
old? Yeah, I think so.
1:08:05
And he's a billionaire and he's got how many grandchildren?
1:08:09
And he's technically working for free.
1:08:11
So say what you want. I mean, you could you hate the
1:08:15
guy, love the guy. That's as objective as it gets.
1:08:18
Yeah, right. So it's just.
1:08:19
The love of the game. It's the love of the game and
1:08:22
and and and and and you can't make that walk away from you.
1:08:25
So Michael Jordan, it has this love of the game that's like
1:08:28
unsurpassed, right? No equivalent.
1:08:31
And please don't say LeBron, otherwise it'll hurt my
1:08:33
feelings. And what did he have to do?
1:08:37
He had to sort of pivot and he had to make sense of what can
1:08:42
continue to drive me. And maybe we all have a pivot in
1:08:44
our lives at some point, right? But he, his transcendence was
1:08:48
golf. That's his competitive set now.
1:08:51
And, and, and, and, and, and, and that's where his juices
1:08:54
flow. And, and you can't blame him
1:08:56
because if he's still playing basketball, you know, physically
1:08:59
it's inhibiting and you know, you don't have, there's no
1:09:02
longevity factor there. So you got to be able to keep
1:09:07
that drive and you have to be able to retrofit it if need be
1:09:12
because sometimes that plays a part as it relates to aging and
1:09:16
lifestyle. Yeah.
1:09:17
What keeps you going? Like, what is your why?
1:09:21
What mission are you on? Success.
1:09:24
I'm too competitive. I don't want to be told no.
1:09:27
Does that does that fill the void in terms of your question?
1:09:30
No I love it just constantly growing like reaching your
1:09:33
highest potential and and never quitting.
1:09:36
You have to envision it too. Sometimes you can't just say
1:09:39
reaching your highest potential. And I know you didn't mean it
1:09:41
that way, but sometimes it just sounds so vanilla like, but you
1:09:45
have to envision like, where do I see myself and how?
1:09:49
How can I accomplish what needs to be done in order to envision
1:09:56
that? You know, like, there's what I
1:09:58
mean by that is there's a paradigm shift sometimes that
1:10:01
takes place in your life and you don't realize you're in a place
1:10:05
you never thought you would be. And that's because of drive.
1:10:09
That's because of the pursuit. Shannon Sharpe once said, I
1:10:14
think we've had one too many quotes, but it's OK Shannon
1:10:17
Sharpe once said, don't chase the bag.
1:10:20
Chase the game. Got to be able to chase the
1:10:22
game. The bag is going to come.
1:10:24
Money's going to come. Well, thanks Simon.
1:10:27
Of course, thank you for having me, Hannah.
1:10:28
Of course, it's a pleasure and I look forward to doing a ton of
1:10:32
business, high volume all throughout the years with HP
1:10:35
Capital, by the way. Thanks, Simon.