Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / Triumph Turns 50: Rik Emmett on the Anniversary Tour and His Latest Poetry Book [Episode 361]

Transcript

Triumph Turns 50: Rik Emmett on the Anniversary Tour and His Latest Poetry Book [Episode 361] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

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  Speaker 1: Well, it feels pretty good right now, but we haven't
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: played a show yet, so let's wait until we get
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: out there and start playing. I'm feeling lucky. I'm feeling
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: kind of blessed that I'm in this position. I'm hoping
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to blow it. We're totally bumped rock
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: and roll. I mean, I'll leave you. You're reading. Little
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  Speaker 1: Hands says it's time to rock and roll up.
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  Speaker 2: I totally booked. Welcome back to Booked on Rock, the
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  Speaker 2: podcast for those about to read and rock, I'm Eric
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  Speaker 2: Sennach say before we jump in. If you want to
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: hear these episodes commercial free, you can grab the backstage
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: pass on Patreon for just five dollars a month. Links
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: in the show notes. You can also go to Booked
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  Speaker 2: on Rock dot com. Now, our guest Rick Emmett is
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: back on the podcast. I believe this is the third
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  Speaker 2: time he's been on the show, and he's got a
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  Speaker 2: brand new book out, his second collection of poetry titled
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  Speaker 2: Leaning Into It Poems. It's due about April seventh. He's
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  Speaker 2: also preparing for Triumphs fiftieth in aniversary reunion tour bands
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  Speaker 2: First and Over thirty years. Rick, you are a very
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  Speaker 2: busy guy. So thank you for taking some time out
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  Speaker 2: to talk tonight.
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  Speaker 1: You're welcome third time. Eh? Wow? Have they always been
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  Speaker 1: set up through ECW Press and for the books or
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  Speaker 1: sometimes for the books?
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  Speaker 2: It was it was ECW for the books?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, right on, Okay, Well they're good people and they're
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  Speaker 1: doing me a tremendous favor because I mean, really, who
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  Speaker 1: buys poetry books.
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  Speaker 2: You are now a prolific author. You have put out
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  Speaker 2: three or four books now.
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  Speaker 1: It's true. And you know we sit here talking and
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  Speaker 1: in this very laptop there's yet another book of poetry
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  Speaker 1: that's kind of ready for an editor to look at it.
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  Speaker 1: But you know, the thing with an ECW Press, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I love them and my editor Michael Holmes, great guy,
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  Speaker 1: and it's really great to be able to work with
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  Speaker 1: a guy that has that much experience as a poet,
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  Speaker 1: as an editor. Blah blah blah. But the truth of
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  Speaker 1: the matter is, you know, you kind of have to
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  Speaker 1: go to them and say, yeah, but you know, how
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  Speaker 1: about if I give you a memoir and a poetry booker.
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  Speaker 1: You know, then we put out ten Telecaster Tales and
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  Speaker 1: it was like that had a record in it. It
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  Speaker 1: was all about songs. It was like, you know, sort
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  Speaker 1: of an overblown liner notes thing. So then the second
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  Speaker 1: poetry book that's coming out now, I wrote it back
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  Speaker 1: during COVID, you know. So there's this thing too about
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  Speaker 1: poetry where you write it. I mean I write almost
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  Speaker 1: every day. There's certain things where I'm you know, journaling
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  Speaker 1: or putting things in notebooks or you know whatever, typings,
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  Speaker 1: And so there's another one sitting in the computer waiting
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  Speaker 1: to go, but it might be a year or two
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  Speaker 1: before it finds its way to the public. Who knows.
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  Speaker 1: And now, of course I've detoured off into touring landah,
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  Speaker 1: which eats up so much of your time and energy.
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  Speaker 1: I forgot how much of a time chere thing it is,
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  Speaker 1: you know.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and from what I hear, ticket sales are doing
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  Speaker 2: really well. Two shows in Boston.
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  Speaker 1: I know. It's it's one of those things where, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: you can't help but look at that and think, oh, well,
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  Speaker 1: then is this just the first leg of something that's
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  Speaker 1: going to eat up the next you know, three years
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  Speaker 1: of my life kind of thing, and you go, it could.
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  Speaker 1: Now I'm still in the early stages of that, so
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  Speaker 1: in a way, I'm kind of still digging it. You know,
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  Speaker 1: it's fun to be kind of hooking up with these
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  Speaker 1: new guys and working with them, and you know, Gil
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  Speaker 1: and I are finding new energy again in the studio
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  Speaker 1: and yeah, like there's just so much of it is
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  Speaker 1: kind of new and fresh again, so that that's kind
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  Speaker 1: of cool. But you know, now the poetry books kind
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  Speaker 1: of getting bumped to the back of the bus, and
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  Speaker 1: you go, oh, that's not very fair. And Gil comes
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  Speaker 1: to me today at the studio. He says, oh, I
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  Speaker 1: was doing an interview and I was pumping your book.
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  Speaker 1: I O, well, that's great, thanks, but I'm pretty sure
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  Speaker 1: it's getting lost in the shuffle. But you know, fine, that's.
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  Speaker 2: Great, perfect timing there. You put the book out while
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  Speaker 2: you're in the media a lot, You're getting a lot
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  Speaker 2: of coverage, so it's.
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  Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, no, I'm not complaining. And it's weird to
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: have this thing happen where you know, you retire on
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  Speaker 1: this year, I'll turn seventy three, and I'm looking at
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  Speaker 1: my life and I'm going, wait, i feel like I'm
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: busier now than I've been in the last couple of decades.
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  Speaker 2: It's exactly going on here seriously, And then you mentioned
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  Speaker 2: something about in the studio. I mean, I don't want
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  Speaker 2: to you know, I don't want to make you say
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  Speaker 2: anything you can't promise, but maybe new music.
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  Speaker 1: Well you know, maybe that's down the road. No, I'm
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  Speaker 1: talking like right now in the studio. There has to
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: be this stage where what you've written is script and
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: consulted with the guys in the band and Gil and
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  Speaker 1: the lighting designer and the sound man, and now the
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  Speaker 1: script has to get turned into certain things where you
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: have pre record stuff that has to get you. Like
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: today I was doing stuff for I was literally like
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: an act. They're doing voiceover stuff through a harmonizer. So
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: that this character that we've created for the screens that's
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: kind of like an MC character guy. We used to
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: have a thing in the in the old days on
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  Speaker 1: the tour where in the early days of lasers, we
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: had a thing we called him Laser Face. He was
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: like a guy that kind of went are you roady
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: for the Greater Show Triumph? You know, it was like
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: blah blah this character. So he's going to get upgraded
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: to twenty twenty six. Wow, you know, the whole reloaded thing.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: But now he's going to sort of be like a
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, Star Trek, space Man, the Mandalorian, like,
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  Speaker 1: you know, he's going to be a character. I haven't
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: even seen him in his final stages yet, but I've
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  Speaker 1: got to do his voice before. So it's all. You know,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: there's these levels of things that technology.
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  Speaker 2: You know what, exciting. But you're going to be on
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: the road more now than you have in a long time.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: How does that?
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  Speaker 1: Yes, And there's conversations about that. Are we flying, are
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  Speaker 1: we going to the bus? What's what's going to be like? Uh?
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  Speaker 1: And of course back in the old days, we didn't
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  Speaker 1: really do bus. You know, we flew everywhere, and we
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: flew first class and we treated ourselves well. Because there
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: were only three of us, it was it was relatively
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  Speaker 1: Now there's at least five ors could be six, but
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  Speaker 1: I think at least five of us. So it's like,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: oh a little bit different now, you know. Anyways, blah
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  Speaker 1: blah blah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll get into a little a little more about that.
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  Speaker 2: But you know, let's talk about leaning into it, which
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  Speaker 2: the title suggests engagement rather than retreat. What does leaning
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  Speaker 2: into it mean to you personally?
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Well, well, we have to define it. And of course
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: it was during COVID times, but it was also you know,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: the reign of Trump and so all of this stuff
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  Speaker 1: the first time around, and then you know, it seems
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  Speaker 1: appropriate ironically that you know, now it's even more, it's
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  Speaker 1: even more of an it than ever leaning into it,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: I might have left out a couple of letters there. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think the world is headed in
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  Speaker 1: a good direction, you know, and I didn't feel it
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  Speaker 1: back then, and I've it's even worse now, you know.
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  Speaker 1: So there is that, and what else is it? You know,
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  Speaker 1: the the stiff wind blowing in off of the ocean,
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  Speaker 1: is this thing that's growing old? You know, that's part
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  Speaker 1: of it aging. I think part of it is trying
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  Speaker 1: to deal with a world where okay, let's blame digital
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  Speaker 1: technology a little bit. Let's blame you know, the devices
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  Speaker 1: we all hold in our hands. Yeah, there's just a
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  Speaker 1: lot of stuff going on that it takes me away
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  Speaker 1: from the world where I felt all the things in
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  Speaker 1: my life that were important to me, intellectual pursuits, rigor
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  Speaker 1: practicing an instrument until you can become incredibly articulate on it,
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  Speaker 1: all of that stuff seems to be getting hammered, you know.
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  Speaker 1: And yeah, so that's what I'm leaning into the fact
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  Speaker 1: that I don't like the dumbing down of the world.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like people haven't complained about this
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  Speaker 1: stuff before. When I mentioned this in some of the poetry,
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  Speaker 1: you know, the world that Patty Schaevsky saw in the
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  Speaker 1: Network movie in nineteen seventy six, you know, all of
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  Speaker 1: a sudden, it's real life. It's really happening, and you're going,
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  Speaker 1: my god, you know. So yeah, you know, I'm not
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  Speaker 1: sure which poetry book I wrote it, but I talk
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  Speaker 1: about George Carlin, and I talk about Bertrand Russell and
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  Speaker 1: the kinds of minds that I admire and that I
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  Speaker 1: feel a kinship towards. And you know, they couldn't get
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: elected nowadays. You know they might. They might be a
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: talk show host who's getting kicked off of television. You know,
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  Speaker 1: there's stuff going on where you go, Dad, can't be true.
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  Speaker 1: Is that true? Is that what's happening? Is that what's
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  Speaker 1: really happening? And it is, and you go, oh, my god.
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  Speaker 1: You know when they're going to start that war in Iran.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: It's gonna happen any second.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, I know. I was just listening to all that
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: talk this afternoon. Well, I actually I saw the video
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: last night. Sammy Hagar put up his upcoming toy. He's
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  Speaker 2: adding a song called Crack in the World from fifty
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: one years ago, and in the lyrics he's saying, fifty
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  Speaker 2: years from now, the world is going to be split
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  Speaker 2: in half, and it's going to be a you know,
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  Speaker 2: it's just going to be a mess.
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  Speaker 1: And the point, I mean, I've got poems you know,
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  Speaker 1: in this in this computer now where I'm talking about
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  Speaker 1: the fact that we we live in this time, where
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  Speaker 1: the pursuits of intellectual understanding and compassion, all of these
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: kinds of things. It's like nothing of that, nothing like
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  Speaker 1: that counts anymore. So I I find it very disheartening.
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  Speaker 1: But uh, the bottom line is you have to fight
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: fire with fire. At a certain point, they're you know,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: you know, I was out to dinner with a friend
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: the other night and he was talking about you know,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Democrats that are running ads where they're swearing and where
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: they're you know, they're using four letter words, and you know,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom is this kind of blah blah blah, and
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I'm going look, you know, at a certain point, they
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: didn't set this tone they didn't make the world into
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  Speaker 1: what it is now, they're going to have to try
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: to reclaim it. How do you do that? You know,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: at a certain point, if you're if you're gonna take
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: on the the viewer mocked, you have to have an
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: allied force and you have to go to war, and
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: so it's too bad. Poets are people that are in
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  Speaker 1: the words of say Kurt Vonnegut, you know, he would say, well,
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  Speaker 1: you got to be like a canary down a coal mine.
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  Speaker 1: Your job is to you know. So Sammy's not wrong.
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  Speaker 1: Sammy's he's close to the idea of you know, every
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  Speaker 1: now and then you got to bark. You gotta warn people.
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  Speaker 1: You know, you've got to be somebody that is uh
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  Speaker 1: not afraid to sort of you know, see the colors
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  Speaker 1: and say, you know, this is what I see. If
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: there's an emperor there, he's got no clothes. You have
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  Speaker 1: to you know, I'm not going a lot further back
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  Speaker 1: in Kurt Vonnegue, going to Hans Christian Anderson, but you know,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: you get it.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Do these times resulting some of the best art. Because
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: I just listened to you two's new music. They put
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: out an EP and it's some of the best stuff
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: they've put out a long time, and it's it's during
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  Speaker 2: turbulent times maybe we get the best art or the
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: most passionate you know what.
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  Speaker 1: That that's very insightful, and that may be true. You know, certainly,
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  Speaker 1: when you feel, when you feel the knife at your throat,
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  Speaker 1: it changes the way that you see the world. You know,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: it changes what you see as important. You know, when
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: you're on your deathbed with a chronic you know, cancerous disease,
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  Speaker 1: it changes the way you see things. You know. So yeah,
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  Speaker 1: maybe that's true, you know. I mean, I think I've
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: made some good music and written some good poetry when
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: i'm you know, and let's I give myself some maybe
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: a little more latitude than I deserve. But let's call
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  Speaker 1: lyric writing in certain ways poetic, you know. And I
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  Speaker 1: think when I wrote songs like fight the Good Fight
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  Speaker 1: and hold on to Your Dreams and the magic power
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  Speaker 1: of music and stuff, there's a there's a thing there
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  Speaker 1: where I'm trying to be optimistic and positive as an
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  Speaker 1: artist because in truth, I don't necessarily see the world
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  Speaker 1: that way. I see the world in a very you know,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: cynical kind of way, in a in a in a well,
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  Speaker 1: certainly in a in a stoic philosopher Marcus Aurelius kind
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  Speaker 1: of way. And I go, okay, but what's my job.
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  Speaker 1: I think my job is to try and offer people something,
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  Speaker 1: you know, positive, something of value. Yeah, there's enough interesting
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  Speaker 1: folks right now that are raping and pillaging the world,
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  Speaker 1: and so, you know, I don't see them offering value.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: They try to make it look like it's value, but
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure that it is.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there is so much positivity in Triumph music, in
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  Speaker 2: your lyrics, yeah, and.
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  Speaker 1: So I do think there was a certain level of
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  Speaker 1: a poetic kind of approach to making rock music, you know.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, in the documentary for the band to talk
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: about you know, somebody says something about, well, they were
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: dressed in white at the OUs festival and they were
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: the good guys in an era of scumbags. And I
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: do think that we did see ourselves as a kind
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: of a band. And now here we are, it's fifty
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  Speaker 1: years later, and oh there's this appetite for the band again,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: you know. So I think at the same time that
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  Speaker 1: some folks are leaning into it, you know, there are
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: other folks that are hungry for what you get by
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: leaning into it, like what comes from it? You know.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: So this goes back to your point about you two,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: you know, finding themselves and maybe coming up with you know,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: really strong stuff. It's like, well, uh, you know, I
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: need an antidote.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: The book is divided into five parts and includes auto
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: fictional elements. Talk about that and how much of the
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: narrator is truly Rick Emmett, how much is it crafted persona.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: I would say a lot of them is me. I mean,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if you've ever tried writing,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: you know, like as a as a I don't know,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: you know, prose, poetry, whatever.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: When I write I have attempted it, I'll just say, okay, yeah.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: And I think every you know, everybody probably did some
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: in school and then some people they you know, when
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: you become an adult, you go no, I think I
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: want to take a crack out. And it's not easy.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: It's hard work, and uh, I get sick of I me,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: you know, the you know, And so then I start
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: going to the collective WI and then I go, oh,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: that's you know, now I'm sounding like a preacher, you know,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: and I so then I eventually sort of get to
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: the point where I'm going, Well, I need to tell
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: a story about a third party. I'll create this alter
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: ego guy and his name, al Vado fallis like Alvaro
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: is a name that sort of means guardian, like somebody
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: that's this all stuff that I talked about about, you know, uh,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: canary down a coal mine or or you know that
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: sort of thing. Uh. And I think a poet has
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: that responsibility. So I go, okay, and then I'm thinking
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: court jester. Yeah, that's good. I like that. I like
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: to you know, that he's the fool, that he plays
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: the fool. And you're you know, you're looking and talking
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: to a guy here that you know, wrest pandex pants
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  Speaker 1: and jumped around on a flying V. I'm going to
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  Speaker 1: do it again, by god, you know. So there's a
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: kind of a court jester thing in what my life
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: has been like, you know, in a way. And I
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: don't mind that. I don't mind that one tiny little bit.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: You know. I have a deep respect for Alex Sleipson
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: in Rush and man in interviews lately, he's just having
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: so much fun. He is definitely a court jester kind
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: of guy, you know, And I go, I admire it.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: I really like it. You know, it's what I sort
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: of want to do too. You know, like sometimes you're
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: gonna be serious. Sometimes you're gonna have that marat and
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: you're going to be telling a story about the way
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: the King farts too much, or you know, you're going
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: to be making satire about what's happening in society. But
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: of course then you can always go, hey, just an
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: artist here, just a poet, you know, you know, you
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: don't have to put me in jail or anything.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, Alex liiveson and Getty Lee bringing Rush back,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: and I always wonder about those situations where you lose
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: a member of the band and it's something that you'd
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: love to do, it's who you are, and you're being
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: asked to just, I guess stop doing it all together.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know they've done projects on the side,
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: but Rush is their baby. That's that's you know.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: You look back, you know the course of the history
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: of rock bands, and Zeppelin would be the one where
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: you go when Bonham died and they went, yeah, then
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: that's the end of Zeppelin. But then eventually the life
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: goes on and certain things happen, and you know the
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: tide of times and the pressures that come around. It's
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: like you go, Okay, well maybe well maybe we could
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: realize it in a different way. And I mean in Triumph.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Now we're going through this thing where, you know, Mike
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: Levine his health is not good. He's been struggling with things,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: and I'm not sure that he's gonna make it out
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: to rehearsals. I'm not sure he's going to make it
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: out on to it. Certainly, you know, he might show
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: up on a couple of shows, but you know, but
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: this thing is kind of rolling without him, and I'm
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: gonna sort of try to move to the bottom of that.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't even a question. I'm just yeah,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I'm difficating here. But I think that, uh, the thing
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: that drew Gill and I back into this at this
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: point Mike too. But but Mike has kind of been,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: you know, out of the picture a little bit. The
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: thing that drew it was the songs. It was these
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: things that we created. And then they've got this kind
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: of life where oh, there's you know, Stanley Cup playoffs
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: and they're playing them on TV and then kids are
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: putting up their shazam and going, what what band is this?
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: What song is this, And all of a sudden, you've
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: got a song that's back on the charts, you know,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: in terms of streaming and downloads, and you're going, Okay,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know this world, but apparently this world is
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: embracing the songs again. And then you go, oh, well,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: maybe the songs deserve, you know, I deserve to do
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: something for the songs because they're doing something for me,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: and maybe I should do that. And you know, maybe
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter that one guy won't be there.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Maybe it doesn't really matter that we're going to have
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: new guys in playing. Maybe it doesn't matter all of
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: those kinds of things that cynical, sarcastic people might say,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: because as long as we do a good job on
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: the songs, and the songs really get up on stage
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: and they work from there, they talk from there, they
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: do what they're supposed to do. I don't know. It's
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: like when you write a book of poetry and you go,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know how much value it will have, but
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: I can't predict this, but maybe forty years, one hundred
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: years after I'm dead, somebody's gonna read that poem and go, hey,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: you know what, Sammy Hay's going to write a song
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: forty or fifty years later he's gonna go, hey, you
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: know what, I think I was steering into a crystal
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: ball or anyhow.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the songs that you create outlive you and they
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: live on. But then, you know, now with the social media,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: these songs are reintroduced to a whole new generation through
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: like Fleetwood, Max Rumors is a huge seller among the
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: young people because of it's exposure on TikTok, it goes viral.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Those are the things you can't even plan for.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: No, And the thing that's lovely is that there's a
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: quality to those songs that it doesn't it like, it
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: doesn't it doesn't corrode. It actually sort of takes on
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: a strength that it shines even better than because it's like, no,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: you know what, the song's fifty years old and it's
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: really still good, and you go, absolutely, well, that's a
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: nice thing to contemplate, like, you know, I mean, look,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: I've always appreciated classical music. I've always appreciated jazz, So
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: I've always had that sense of, you know, there's something
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: amazing in oh, you know, W. C. Mozart, Bach, Beethoven,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: These things you can listen to them and you can
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: go no, no, no, that's forever. That's so good that
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: that's a forever kind of a thing. So when you write,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: you know, poetry songs, you're kind of hoping to get
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: some of that in there, you know. I mean, do
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: I think that I'm making art? I'm not sure that
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: I would go that far. You know, I would hope
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: there's some art in what I do, you know, and
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: I but you know, I'm mostly a commercial pop kind
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: of artist, you know, but hey, if I had some
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: of the value that Fleetwood Matt puts into stuff, I
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: would be happy. If I had some of the value
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: that Rush puts into stuff, I would be very happy.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: You know, the bands that I listened to when I
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: was a kid, the poets that I read, you know, like,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: if I could even get a small degree of Leonard
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Cohen's insight into some of the things that I write,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: I would feel like they had a good day. That
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: was a good day.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Sure, well, you spent years communicating through the guitar and songwriting.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: What does poetry allow you to express that music may not.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have the same kind of boundaries because it
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: has moments where it can just you know, take a
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: can open and just open up your head, and you
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: know it doesn't have the same sort of rules of
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: meter and rhyme schemes. And uh yeah, that's not to
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: say that I haven't lately, I've been writing poetry where
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: it's I've been writing sonnets and I've been writing villain l's.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I've been writing stuff that where you know, the form
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: is like I've been writing haikups and limericks, you know,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: because you go, no, this is form. And I spent
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: so much of my life working in song forms straphic,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: you know, structured, aby ab kind of stuff. You go, well, okay,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: why wouldn't I apply that more in my poetry. But
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: in the the two books that have you know, come
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: to press so far, it was more like I was going, no, no, no,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: I have free verse, and I'm going to open it
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: up a little bit and I'm gonna you know, if
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: I'm going to have a run online or But you know,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: I think that my songwriting past made it so that
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I do have a pretty strong sense of this is
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: where I need a line break, this is where I
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: need a verse break, this is where I need to
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: leave more space. Well, you know, the thing about poetry
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: that I love a little bit more than lyric. When
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: you're writing the lyrics, sometimes you want to use a word.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: It's the right word, it's a great word, but it's
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: just too literal, it's too literate, you know. And songs
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: need words that sing. Songs need words that the vowels
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: and the consonants are in the right place. Sometimes with
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: poetry you can just spit out consonants like machine gun
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: like that, And that's the whole idea of it. You
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: can make the words, Uh, they function like the like
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: all the music. It's just the words that are that
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: are providing all of this stuff. And uh, when you
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: write songs, you got melody in there, you got harmony
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: that's creating you know, harmonic phrasing like.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, less restrictions songwriting.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: So I'm full of all this.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Stuff, right, right, But less restriction then with poetry in
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: that sense that you can go down some different roads
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: and avenues that you can't musically with a song.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, plus songs, I mean, you know, songs generally speaking,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: what do you got? You got love songs, you got
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: protest songs, you got you know, there's not like and
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: it's not I used to try to write songs in Triumph,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: like the song Never Surrendered, which we're going to be
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: doing live. And you know, I've been working on it
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: and revisiting it and thinking about those lyrics. I go, yeah,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: you know this was This isn't a love song. This
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: is kind of a singer getting up on station barking
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: and complaining about apathetic people in the crowd won't take
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: responsibility for themselves, you know. And I go, okay, well,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: I was kind of walking out on a branch that
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: sewing behind me a little bit, you know. But poems
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: you can do that. You know that's hard for the course.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: Go ahead, you know, take gigantic chances about your content songs.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: You're trying to sort of, you know, sell some records
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: and sell some concert tickets and poetry books. I go, well,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: I don't sell any wouldn't be much different than all
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: the rest of the poets I've ever met in my life.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Well, it's show business. And that's one of the poems
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: I want to ask you about. It's titled show Business,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: and one of the Stanzas reads the Marat, says, you
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: know why you did it? You fell in love with
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: the danger of making a spectacle of yourself. The show
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: was a life of show biz, and the show must
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: go on in this business of show and the showdown
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: will always be to show up and show off. And
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: it feels like you're really pulling back the curtain on
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: what it means to be a performer in this poem.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: The ego, the fear of the rush, the addiction to
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: the stage. Again, how much of this is about you?
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: All of it? You know, like, well, and not just me,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: but you know other people that I've observed didn't show business.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: You know, the whole class clown thing that you know,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: the David Lee roths of the world and the you know,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know name name. You know ten frontmen. And
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: of the ten frontmen that you named, do they not
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: all fit what I just described in that thing? Because
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: if you are drawn to that, and then you get
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: there and you taste that, then that thing is kind
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: of like, oh, this could be addictive, you know, this
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: is something that And the thing too is once you've
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: had the taste and you learn how to and you
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: know that you enjoy it, then you're going to keep
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: pursuing it so that you actually you get good at it.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: You know it teaches you to be good at it,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: you know. So there's all of that too, And I mean,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: like let's imagine, like, you know, think of another metaphor.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Let's think about Tom Brady. He's coming up through the
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: in the Patriots thing, and he's at a certain point
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: in time. He hasn't won a whole bunch of Super Bowls,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: but he's doing this job and he's looking at himself
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: in the mirror, and he's talking to a head coach
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: and you know whatever is offensive coordinator, and they're going, Tom,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: you are the man, and you can make this happen.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: You can do it. And he's looking in the mirror
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: and he goes, yes, I think I can, and then
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: he does. And then he's the man and he does
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: it season in, season out. He's the guy, you know,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: and he goes, I do it because I can. I
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: do it because I want to. And you can't do
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: it unless you want to you really want to have to,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: because it's really hard work. It's not easy, you know.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: And the job that I did of playing guitar and singing,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: you know, and you know, there's been some funny things
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: that have happened, like the round Hill made the tribute
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: to album and when the producer Mike Klink was going
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: around and trying to find guys to sing Triumphs. So
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: I said, going, not singing that Emmett stuff. That's it's nuts.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: It's like he's a chipmunk on healing. You know, I'm
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: not going there. I'm not doing that. I'm just gonna
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: embarrass myself. I can't I can't cut that. It's not me.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: I can't do that. But I did what I could
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: do at the time, and I can't do it anymore.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: And this is a very interesting dynamic. So I'm gonna
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: tie two things together here. So I'm rehearsing and I'm
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: going I can't do it that key. Key's got to
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: come down to here, and I'm not going to sing
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: that last verse. I'm gonna have get Todd Kerns to
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: sing it. A younger guy's gonna have to sing it
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: because I can't hit those notes anymore. I still want
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: to do the song, and I want to do justice
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: to the song, but we're going to have to figure
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: out what justice is. Okay, So now I'm going to
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: go back to leaning into it. So I want you
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: to imagine at seventy two years of age, when you're
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: facing your own limitations. You can't even do your own
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: stuff anymore. I can't do it, And you go, yeah,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: but I want to do justice to it. And then
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: I look in the mirror and I go, okay, well
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: you fucking lean into it.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Lean into it, lean into it.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Let's go. You know, let's not be a pussy. Let's
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: you know. I know we're gonna have to maybe gleap
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: some of them.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: That's all right, this is uncensored.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. I'm like the whole thing
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: of being young and full of testosterone and being able
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: to do those very ambitious kinds of class clown kinds
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: of things. Now you're old and you can the rule
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: book is different. And then you go, okay, well I
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: had the ambition to do it once. Can I find
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: the ambition to do it again in a different way.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: And I'm enjoying the challenge.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Of It's fun also, But the fearlessness of you in
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: your younger days is still there. Now you have to
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: be fearless because you have to take that risk and say,
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm open to criticism here.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I would love to is if
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: we could go back and then replay your little clip
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: where you read my words, which, by the way, thank
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: you very much. I really enjoyed that. It's really nice
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: to hear other people reciting my poetry. But you know,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: are you saying that there's no fear in that? I
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: think there's fear. I think I'm only human and I
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: have fear.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: I have literally, Yeah, it's facing I guess you're facing your.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Fast that's right, and going okay, so this is that's
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: part of the thing. Am I gonna let fear own me?
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Or am I going to go no fear? This is
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: the I mentioned Marcus Aurelius and Stoicism and that sort
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: of thinking of you kind of got you go. Look,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: you know, Trump and his cronies they're ruining the world.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: But am I going to let that ruin my life?
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: I'm not.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: I'm going to try to find a way to rise
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: above it and get past it. And sometimes you can't
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: get over it, you have to go through it. And
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: so in order to go through it, you have to say, well,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: then put fear in your back pocket and don't work
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: from your fear. Just try to work without emotion so
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: that you can, you know, just forward and get the
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: thing done, you know, don't I quote something in the
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: poetry book where it's like I quote from the Tom
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Hanks movie Castaway where he's the character that has survived
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: and he and he you know, he's made it back
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: and he's going, I think, all you got to do
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: is put one foot in front of the other, and
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: you just got to wait and see what the tide
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: brings in, you know. And I thought that was such
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: a meaningful thing to me. Of this, this is how
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: you do it. You don't do it by thinking about
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: fifty steps. You only think about the next one, and
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: then the next one and then the next one. If
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: you start thinking about fifty so if you start thinking
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: about your fear, you're never gonna take the.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Step, because tomorrow the sun will rise. Who knows what
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: the tide will bring?
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, there you go. What's that poem.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: Call Mind the Gap? Free will?
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Is that from Mind the Gap?
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Wow? Really the quotes at the top of mind the Gap.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: Oh at the good Fight? Sorry the good fight?
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, no, that's the good fight. Yeah yeah, No,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Mind the Gap is slightly different than no, yeah, good fight.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: See here's the guy that wrote the song good Fight
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: here's the guy that's gonna go out down stage and
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: sing it again. And people go, oh, like a good
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: fight like Saint Paul and the Bible. I go, no, no,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: not like Saint Paul on the Bible. Yes, yes, that phrase,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: But you know, the good fight existed before Saint Paul,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: you know, and in truth, the way we think of it,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: we kind of think about it was I think Benjamin
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Franklin was maybe the guy that actually defined it in
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: the way that we think about it more than Saint
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Paul did. But in my mind, I think of the
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: good fight as something that when you are trying to
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: find the better person inside yoursell That to me is
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: the good fight? How do you define it? And then
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: you know, Chuck Nolan, I think is the character in
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: the Castaway movie that Tom Hanks plays.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, script by William Broyles Junior.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was the screen he was the screenwriter and
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: it's an incredible screenplay. It's it's amazing, you know. So yes,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: that that was what you know, that was where I
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: got the inspiration. Now, now mind the gap, I think
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: that was about you know, well, I mean obviously there's
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: signs in the in the London underground right where when
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: the train pulls in the train stations, they're they're asking
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: you when you step onto the train, you got to
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: mind the gap. And they have these little signs to
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: remind you, you know. But I think I wrote about
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: the gap and you know backed sidewalks where a flower
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: starts to grow, And yeah, I think I think that's.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Beautifully written, beautifully well.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: You know, I mean, obviously I'm borrowing from Leonard Cole
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: and you know, you know the cracks, that's that's what
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: that's where the light gets in.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: But don't we all borrow something from someone before us
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: that inspired who inspired us?
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Yes? Right, yes, yeah, yeah, there's there's there's very little
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: new under the sun. Wait is that Shakespeare?
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah? The good fight is ours to choose energy channeled
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: into the social contract, to do no harm, to weigh
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: the golden rule, to reinvent the perimeter when the security
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: of the castle wall is being compromised. Yeah, baby, stands
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: are there? Yeah? Hey, speaking of reinvention, is it does
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: it feel like a reinvention for you right now? These days?
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, you've you've been a rock fun man and
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: you still are columnist, a music teach, now increasingly a
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: literary voice. I mean, is this a reinvention or just
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: another extension of the same creative thread.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: I think reinvention is probably, you know, an ongoing process
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: of being a human being and being alive, you know.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: I mean I could sit here and be talking to
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: you about the arthritis medication that I have to self
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: inject every two weeks, you know, and the pills that
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: I take in the morning and at night, once for
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: the prostate and once for the cholesterol. And you know,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: I'm getting old, and so part of the thing is okay,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: So you know, how do you cope with that? You know,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: and you reinvent And in some ways it's not that
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: you're reinventing in a way that you're getting better and
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: getting stronger. It's like, no, I'm just learning how to
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: kind of cope with you know, reduced but with limitations involved.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: And you know, I and I think that it's important
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: to try to keep my mind. I guess the answer is.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: I like, when this tour thing got pitched and I
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: sat down with my wife, I said, I don't know
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: if I can do this. I don't think I wanna,
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: you know, And she said, well, let's do pros and
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: cons you know, let's start there. Well what do you
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: think you know? And I go, let's do pros first,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: because you know, I don't want to get into the
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: cons It'll be too long. The list. I think. The
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: first thing is I'm going to have to get in shape.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to literally go to the gym and
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: start working out, maybe get a personal trainer. And she said, well,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: let's stop doing lists right now. That's the best reason
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: to do it. Doesn't matter any other reason, that's the
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: one you're gonna do it, which was the one step
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: instead of a thousand steps, Let's just do one. I
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: go okay. So for Christmas she bought me ten sessions
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: with a personal trainer. I was like, okay, I guess
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to do this. And then I went
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: to the gym with this guy and like he came
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: to the house and here in my studio and I
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: did some workouts, and then I went to his gym
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: and I go, okay, I think I like this. I
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: remembered what it was like to be a gym rat
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: when I was in high school, and I go, okay, no,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: I get this. And so I'm in better shape than
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: i've been in in twenty years, you know, wow, maybe longer,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: you know, and my diet's better. I've lost twelve pounds,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: like you know, I'm getting a little bit of it.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I'm gonna need the Paul McCartney surgery. Yeah. Well,
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: but I think of in baseball terms, it's like a
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: you could a fastball pitcher can still strike people out
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: with the curveball. You just got to learn to mix
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: it up. Yeah, man, there you go. How's that for?
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: To make a note?
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Right, The tour kicks off three days after the book
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: comes out. So the book comes out April seventh, and
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: then the tour April tenth in Florida, and he got
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: to you can get the.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Book is on pre order at ECW press site, like
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: you know, so if people are watching this and they
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: want the book, want to make sure that they get
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: their copy, you can go and get it right now.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll put a link in the show notes. The book.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: Down Rock Podcast is part of the Boneless podcasting network.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: If you're a fan of classic rock and classic film
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: like I am, go to Boneless dot lovable dot app
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: to find over twenty great shows there. That's Boneless Downlovable
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Dot app. Or just go to book down rock dot com,
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: the Boneless podcasting network. It is what you want to
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: be listen with confidence, and you've got tour daight schedule
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: across Canada and US the spring. So how do you
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: balance the reflective solitude of poetry with the energy of
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: performing in a rock and roll band.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, you know what happens after the show? You're going
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: you do a meet and greet, and then you're really tired,
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: and then you go back to the bus. And then
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: you're on the bus and you're all alone. You're in
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: your little bunk. You can writing in your journal, you
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: know you can be And I used to do it
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: back in the try f days. I had journals and
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: notebooks and you know, I used to do it back
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: there and write songs and write lyrics and yeah, like
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: it's mostly kind of a lonely kind of lifestyle really,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: the traveling musician that the ninety minutes on stage or
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: the two hours, it's like, okay, no, this is a
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: as social social activity as it can get. But you know,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: beyond that, it's you know, you're on your own and
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: or you're hanging with this small group of guys who
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: are also very like minded. You know, I think this
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: thing that we're getting with these new guys is great
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: because I mean I was on the phone with Brent
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Fitz today and Brent was saying, you know, Toss, the
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: bus is not a party place. The bus is a
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: place for reading and sleeping and having a cup of
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: cama meal tea solitude. Yeah. Well, you know, and plus
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: these guys, they're all Canadians. I mean a couple of
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: them are living in Vegas now and phil X is
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: living in la But these guys are They're Canadians, and
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: there is a thing about you know, I think when
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: you scratch Canadian you get down to this thing where
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: we're a relatively humble, modest kind of folk. You know,
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: we're self effacing, and we kind of go, yeah, but
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: this is the way you should be. And I think
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: it's probably goes back to this is the only way
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: the village survives the winter. They're all going to have
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: to cooperate. Nobody can be you know, egomaniac here. We
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: have to you know, we have to get along. So
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: we all have to wear our mittens and our scarves.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: Sure, you know, Yeah, so's Todd Kerns and Brent Fitz
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: from Slash's band, and phile X like you put on
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: the website on loan from the Mighty bon Jovi, Yes,
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: and Yeah, yeah, and then the three three originals.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: And it's not like these they've been around to I mean,
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Alice Cooper and all of them have resumes that are
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: very long, you know, and they've done a lot of things.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: And of course Phil had replaced me in Triumph when
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: I left it, that's right in nineteen eighty eight eighty nine.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: He was the guy that they hired and he did
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: an album with him and stuff, and you know, I
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: can remember meeting Phil at some guitar workshop thing and
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: the guy that ran it was very concerned, you know,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: he was having this guitar symposium or whatever it was,
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: and said, it's the new guy from tryingph Are you
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: going to be okay with that? Well, of course I'm
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: going to be okay. When I first met him, I
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: was shaking his hand and I pulled him in close
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: to me and I said, Phil, there's nobody else on
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: the planet Earth that knows better what you're getting yourself
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: into than me, and I just wish you all the
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: luck in Yes, I've never had a problem with Phil.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's Fridday. Totally forgot about that. Yeah, Now this
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: is the tour, is the first with the classic lineup
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: since nineteen eighty eight. But you've added these guys. Now,
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: this is really to bolster the sound, to make sure
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: that the audience is going to get the complete sound, right,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: that's the reason for adding these three guys.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, yes, but also so that it will evolve,
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: you know, like maybe it'll sound different. Maybe like when
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: I'm doing the arrangements, now I go, hmmm, you know
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: what I think? Maybe I want to stretch this little moment.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: You know. Phil says, uh, we're working on Spellbouty was,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: can we make the guitar solo twice as long? And
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: I went, if you want to play that solo twice
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: as long, buddy go, you know it's all yours, go
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: for it. So it's not going to be like listening
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: to the old records. That's not the idea. The idea
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: is to make these songs, it's called rock and roll
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: machine reloaded. When you reload you know, we can load it, however,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: we like this time and I want to reload it
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: so that it's twenty twenty six, not nineteen eighty two,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: not nineteen seventy nine. You know, I think that's way
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: more important. I think that music lives in a place
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: where it has the ability to float in the air
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: and evolve and change. That's what makes music so great.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: You know, when I write a poem, I try to
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: read them out loud, and I try to think about
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: how they sound and how they flow, and then I
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: try to think of what's going to feel like when
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: it's in somebody else's head. They're looking at the page
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: and in their own head they're reading it, how might
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: they read it in a way that is okay? So
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: try to answer this question. Do I want them to
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: read it exactly the way I have it?
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Well, you know I am a control freak. Yes, I
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: would kind of like them to read it exactly the
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: way I mean it. But when a line reads and
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: I go, wait a sec. This could mean more than
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: one thing, This could mean two or three things. This
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: has this is kind of open, I go, oh, I
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: like that. I really like that. Like I like it
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: when it has an ability to interpret that. I think
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: that's what will make it be valuable as time goes on.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: You know, to somebody else that I don't even know.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: You know what if these poems could get translated into
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Yugoslavia, you know what's that going to?
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: Because I'm reading a translation of the Marcus Aurelia stuff.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: You would have written it in Latin. And at one
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: point there's a line where whoever did the English translation
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: has used the word atoms, you know, ato ms Adams.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: And I say to my wife, they wouldn't have had Adams. This,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: this was like written in one twelve the ad Did
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: they even know what Adams were? And she goes, well, no,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: but probably in Latin he was using some sort of
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: a word that meant small, particulate, tiny, tiny, particular the
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: grains of things that the universe is made out of.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: That's what the Latin word meant. So this is what
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: the English guy chose. And I went, okay, I like that.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: I like that, you know, you can choose something that
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: might color it in a different way, so you know,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: making music now, I'm gonna go well twenty twenty six, Baby.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: I love that some artists they will not tell you
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: what the song is about. They would rather have you
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: interpret it any way you wish. And then it's like
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: looking at a painting. I always loved standing in front
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: of a painting at a museum and I say, this
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: is what I'm seeing in that picture. What are you seeing?
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: And they may see something different.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, And painting has a little bit more of
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: that sort of abstract I mean there were times where
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: painting was you couldn't make political kinds of statements, and
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: so you had to use the art in order to
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: try and have the politics be in there, you know.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: I mean the whole thing of the Sistine Chapel ceiling
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: with God and the man and the cloud that's in
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: behind it's a brain. That outline is a brain. And
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: so in a way, the artist is saying, now that's
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: the human mind. This is in the human mind. Now
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: he's doing this for the Vatican, He's doing this for
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: the powers that be of the Catholic Church. They're not
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: looking at that and seeing the human brain in it,
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: but he meant it. You know. That's so yeah, you know,
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: I think art has always had that value and had
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: that ability painting. I don't really understand dance too well
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: on that level. I just haven't spent enough time, but
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: I think, uh, you know, poetry, prose, Now I was
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: I have a friend that is very heavily into like
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: sort of uh political advocacy, uh, you know, like lobby
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: groups and that sort of thing. He likes to see
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: the world change on political levels. And he's lately he's
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: into this whole thing about hospitals and medicine and and
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: you know, the the health system, the health and and
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: and so, and he's written a few books about it,
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: and he's thinking about writing another one. And I said,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: I don't think you should write another nonfiction textbook. I go,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: you know, you're not getting enough readers, and it's not
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: what you want. You want more of a political political activism, right,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: And he said yeah. And I said, then I think
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: it's got to be nonfiction. I think you're going to
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: have to write a story, and you're going to have
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: to have families in it and people and friends and
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: then and it's gonna there's got to be human interaction
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: and dynamics, and you're gonna the political points you want
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: to make, the arguments you want to make, you put
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: them in the book by all means, but make it
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: if you want to make a larger impact. I think
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: you're gonna need none. You're gonna need fiction to do it,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: and I think painting poetry, you know, novels like they like,
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: probably the greatest thing of the twentieth century art or
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: was filmed. It ended up becoming the one of the uh,
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: the the the the art form that had the greatest impact,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: the greatest ability to sort of you.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: Know, the Trojan horse.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and and you know, it's it's probably no mistake
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: that even the music business became the music video business.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: You know, the launch of MTV changed it so that, no,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: that's gonna be movies too, you know, like I didn't
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: like it, but that's you know, the writing was on
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: the wall there.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for checking out the Booked on Rock podcast.
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: If you've just found the podcast, welcome. If you've been listening,
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: thank you so much for your support, and make sure
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: you tell a friend, a family member, share on social
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: media and let people know about Booked on Rock, And
• 50:21
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• 50:24
  Speaker 2: give a five star review. Wherever you listen to the
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: Booked on Rock podcast, We're on Amazon, Apple, iHeart, Spotify, Spreaker,
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: tune In, and on YouTube Music. You can check out
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel find it
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: to the show. We'll just finish with a thought on
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: the tour starts in Florida, Canadian dates, US dates as
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: I mentioned, and then due to high demand, they added
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: a second night in Boston, and then the Chicago Gigles
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: move to a larger venue. I mean, what does that
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: say about Triumph's legacy. How does that make you feel?
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: Well? It feels pretty good right now, but we haven't
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: played a show yet, so I don't want to get
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: prematurely cocky about anything. Let's wait until we get out
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: there and start playing.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: You know what, I love you guys, man, Yes, and
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: What you've described is a lovely thing. And I'm feeling lucky.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: I'm feeling kind of blessed that that I'm in this position.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: I'm hoping I'm not going to blow it. I'm hoping
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: what I'm going to do is, you know, justify everybody's
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: you know, hunger for it to happen. Well, and I
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: think it will. And I really like these younger guys
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: that you know, they're not so young, but they're younger
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: than I am, and I think that's gonna put a
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: wrinkle on it, not not even no wrinkle, but you know,
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: like a whole other layer that that is going to
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: make it more meaningful and more fun for me, better
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: for an audience. I mean, my wife and I at
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: dinner we were talking about that. How I just enjoy
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: you know, rehearsing with these guys now and talking with them,
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: and I'm going, this is this is awesome. This is
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of fun, you know, And it takes me
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: right back to when I was in bands as a
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: teenager and in my twenties, you know, before the business
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: started getting in the way and making it harder. This time,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: it seems like the businesses actually made it so that hey,
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: it's it's enabling, it's making this so that it can
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: be more fun than it can be great. And you know,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: that's a lovely thing. I think we see that now
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: with bands that are doing these reunion kinds of tours,
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: that you can do it with creature comforts, and you know,
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: you know, God bless the Rolling Stones and you two
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: showing us the way.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: Sure, absolutely, And you talk about a catalog of music,
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: lay it on the line, magic, power, hold on, Fight,
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: the good fight, never surrender, somebody's out there there. I mean,
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: these songs stand test time. And friend of mine said
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: she remembers seeing you in nineteen eighty six at the
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: Agora Ballroom in Hartford, Connecticut in nineteen eighty six, you've
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: played many shows. I don't know if you ever remember
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: playing there West Harford.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, gos were Gooras were all over yeah. Yeah, they
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: weren't in Canada, but they were all over this, you know. Yeah.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: And and the Aragon in Chicago was a ballroom we played, yeah,
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: so yeah, And I liked him, those old sort of
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: ville things that sort of then converted into Swing era
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: kinds of big bandy. You know. I loved those venues.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: You know, we kind of outgrew them. And and but
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: the places we're playing on this tour, they're more like
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: sheds and amphitheaters, and they're not huge. They're not the
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: giant hockey rinks. But like, I kind of like that.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: I think think it makes it so that we can
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: get a big production and you know, have it up
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: and it'll you'll do it on a large scale, but
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: you know, you're not working to people that are a
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: football stadium away.
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: And April wine is on the road with you, right, yes, awesome.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: Find the bookdown Rock website at bookedn rock dot com.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: There you can find all the back episodes of the show,
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: the latest episode in video and audio, links to all
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: of the platforms where you can listen to the podcast,
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: plus all the social media platforms were on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: and x. Also check out the booked on rockblog. Find
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: your local independent bookstore find out all the latest hot
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: rock book releases, and before you go, check out the
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: booked on Rock online store. Pick up some booked on
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: Rock merch. It's all at booked on rock dot com.
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: People can go where are the best places people can
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: go to get the tickets for the show you mentioned
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: the book? They can go to ECW's website.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, ECW press for the book for leaning into it.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: And the Triumph tickets are like Triumph dot com if
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: you just go there, or maybe it's called Triumph Music
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: dot com. We better check that. I think it's dot com.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: And if you just go to the I think the
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: opening page is going to say, yay, you want tickets
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: for a show.
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: Triumph Music dot com. Yeah, nice beautiful logo there there
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: you go, Olden.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: Thunderbird is making it. It's a phoenix rising from the ash.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: I love it. There you go.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: Hey, when I was a kid, there was a band
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: called Wishbone Ash. Oh you know what that's about. It's
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: about a phoenix. Oh yeah, so if the bird burned,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: you would have Wishbone Ash. Yeah.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, wow. I always like that. There's a rush and
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: a Mahogany rush.
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: I like that, yes, and both Canadian. We once played
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: in England. Frank Marino was on the bill at the
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: Heavy Metal Holocaust in Stoke on Trent and he was great,
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: Like his guitar sounded immense, like just huge, and he
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: had a Hendricks thing that he was very very good
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: at and yeah, he just explained he had an array
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: of pedals on the floor. He was making all these sounds.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: And I never got to meet Frank, which is too
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: bad because I really respected what he did and he
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: was great. Yeah. Well, Hagany Rush.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Hagany Rush. Rick, thanks man. We were supposed to
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: keep it to like twenty thirty minutes, but you gave
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: me much guilty.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: You just got the Rick Emmett guilt thing, so you're good.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: That's right. It was fifty. You were fifteen minutes late,
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: and I thought the interview was an hour and a
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: half before that. So I was trying to get a
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: hold of you like an idiot on Facebook. But we
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: made it happen, and I have a feeling we're going
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: to be we're going to be talking again because you've
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: got more books coming and yes, welcome back here.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: Well and then you know, after you know, the tour
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: puts me in the hospital and you'll probably gonna want to,
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: you know, do an interview when I'm in my iron lungy.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: That yeah, boy, that'll get some clicks there you go, Eric, Okay,
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: that's click? Is that clickbait? Show the picture of you
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: in the hospital bed? What's going on?
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: Oh my god? Yeah. So I don't have a title
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: for my next one. I could give you like a
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: pre look, but you know, I don't have a title yet.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: My working title is Twistings and Turnings, but I don't
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: like that. It's too corny. Yeah, it'll be something else.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: But all right, Well, I'm sure i'll hear from our
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: friend Emily at e c W shall send the email
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: out and jump right on it.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: Good all right man?
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: Thanks? Rick?
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, Eric? Nice talking to you.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: That's it. It's in the books.