Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Brian McVickers on Saying Yes to a Life of Adventure

Transcript

Brian McVickers on Saying Yes to a Life of Adventure · The Overland Journal Podcast

0:07
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I am
0:10
Speaker 1: your host, Scott Brady, and for this week's guest, we
0:13
Speaker 1: have my good friend Brian mcvicars. Brian and I have
0:17
Speaker 1: known each other coming on twenty years now, and we've
0:20
Speaker 1: been working together for over fifteen years. Brian is the
0:23
Speaker 1: Overland International Chief Business Development Officer, but he is also
0:27
Speaker 1: an extremely well traveled individual. Brian has cast off the
0:31
Speaker 1: bow lines and he's sailed for years with his wife Amy.
0:35
Speaker 1: Brian and I cross the Pacific together on the Kailani Expedition.
0:39
Speaker 1: Brian's been along with me during Expedition seven on our trip,
0:43
Speaker 1: also up to tuk tuk Tuk with AEV, crossing the
0:46
Speaker 1: Altar Desert, a bunch of different adventures. Brian has a
0:50
Speaker 1: really interesting life story, and one of the things that's
0:52
Speaker 1: most encouraging about his story is how his relationship with
0:56
Speaker 1: his wife has been such a cornerstone of his adventures.
0:59
Speaker 1: Amy is an credible adventure traveler in her own right,
1:02
Speaker 1: and it has been such a joy for me to
1:04
Speaker 1: see them travel together so successfully, including when they first
1:08
Speaker 1: met and decided to buy a sailboat. Kind of sight
1:11
Speaker 1: unseen move down to Florida, live on the boat in
1:14
Speaker 1: a marina for two years. But they also talk about
1:17
Speaker 1: why there was a certain point in time that they
1:19
Speaker 1: know they needed to stop trying to prepare the boat
1:23
Speaker 1: and cast off those bow lines and leave the marina
1:26
Speaker 1: for the Caribbean islands and for the Atlantic Ocean. So
1:30
Speaker 1: enjoy my wide ranging conversation with Brian McVicker's about overlanding,
1:34
Speaker 1: sailing and about a life filled with casting off those
1:37
Speaker 1: bow lines. This content is brought to you by Overland Journal,
1:42
Speaker 1: our premium quality print publication. The magazine was founded in
1:47
Speaker 1: two thousand and six with the goal of providing independent
1:51
Speaker 1: equipment and vehicle reviews, along with the most stunning adventures
1:56
Speaker 1: and photography. We care deeply about the country's and cultures
2:00
Speaker 1: we visit and share our experiences freely with our readers.
2:06
Speaker 1: We also have zero averatorial policy and do not accept
2:09
Speaker 1: any advertiser compensation for our reviews. By subscribing to Overland Journal,
2:15
Speaker 1: you're helping to support our employee owned and veteran owned publication.
2:21
Speaker 1: Your support also provides resources and funding for content like
2:25
Speaker 1: you are watching or listening to right now. You can
2:29
Speaker 1: subscribe directly on our website at Overland Journal dot com. Well,
2:36
Speaker 1: Brian Man, thanks so much for being on the podcast today.
2:40
Speaker 1: We have known each other a very long time, and
2:42
Speaker 1: you're not only a dear friend, your business partner, and
2:46
Speaker 1: you're so well traveled in your own right, and you've
2:49
Speaker 1: got so many interesting stories to share with the audience today.
2:52
Speaker 1: So man, it's just such a joy to have you
2:54
Speaker 1: on the podcast.
2:55
Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate the opportunity, Scott. It was neat to
2:58
Speaker 2: get the call to be on the podcast. Once I
3:00
Speaker 2: got here to find out you guys just wanted to
3:01
Speaker 2: talk about me. It was kind of strange, but I
3:04
Speaker 2: guess I'll.
3:05
Speaker 1: Roll with it. Yeah's answer the question. It's very difficult.
3:08
Speaker 1: I resisted having myself on the podcast for as long
3:11
Speaker 1: as I possibly could, until Matt and Ashley finally said
3:15
Speaker 1: I didn't have a choice any longer. So, but you've
3:18
Speaker 1: been on the podcast before as a subject matter expert.
3:22
Speaker 1: We've talked about vehicles. We've talked about our trip across
3:26
Speaker 1: the Pacific Ocean in a sailboat together that we did
3:29
Speaker 1: several years ago with a group of friends, just two
3:32
Speaker 1: years ago. Yeah, that's right, exactly, the Kailani expedition. A
3:35
Speaker 1: big thanks to Rusty for making that happen for us.
3:38
Speaker 1: Still there's more to come. Yeah, that's right exactly. I
3:41
Speaker 1: can't wait for where that where that leads. But you
3:44
Speaker 1: have not only a long history in travel, including remote
3:47
Speaker 1: sailing with your wife Amy. Also you have been involved
3:51
Speaker 1: with the overland industry in the United States since its beginnings.
3:56
Speaker 1: So we'll talk a little bit about both of those things.
3:58
Speaker 1: But let's start off with where Where did Brian McVicker's
4:03
Speaker 1: begin in the world. I mean, you don't have to
4:06
Speaker 1: go back too far, but like.
4:07
Speaker 2: Too far, you know. So when I was growing up,
4:09
Speaker 2: there was a picture of a surplus army tent on
4:12
Speaker 2: the wall in my house and I was like, why
4:15
Speaker 2: do we have this picture of this tent?
4:17
Speaker 1: And I one day I asked my mom. I was like,
4:19
Speaker 1: what's up with this tent? What is it?
4:20
Speaker 2: And they were like, oh, well, that's where you came from.
4:22
Speaker 2: I was like, that's all I wanted to know. We
4:25
Speaker 2: can take that picture down, so now we know where
4:30
Speaker 2: Brian came from. Brian came from a surplus canvas started
4:33
Speaker 2: out camping, you did exactly from the very beginning, and
4:37
Speaker 2: camping and the outdoors have been a big part of
4:39
Speaker 2: your life. So you grew up in the Chicago area,
4:42
Speaker 2: and let's talk a bit about the outdoor experiences is
4:45
Speaker 2: that you had, because you it's been a lifetime passion
4:48
Speaker 2: of yours, it has, you know what I think. So
4:50
Speaker 2: I grew up in Chicago, in the suburbs of Chicago
4:53
Speaker 2: and in a place called the Grange, you know, about
4:55
Speaker 2: thirty minutes outside of the city from the lakefront. And
4:58
Speaker 2: you know, as a kid, I was I was a
5:00
Speaker 2: boy scout for a while, always enjoyed the outdoors. I
5:03
Speaker 2: also did a lot of team sports, and then I
5:05
Speaker 2: think towards high school I started to get a little
5:09
Speaker 2: bit more involved in travel. I was very in hindsight,
5:13
Speaker 2: it was extremely fortunate that my stepfather was a United
5:18
Speaker 2: Airlines pilot.
5:19
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that I didn't know.
5:21
Speaker 2: And so he was a United Airlines pilot for a
5:22
Speaker 2: long time. And when I was in high school, we
5:24
Speaker 2: had this book of tickets that was basically like a
5:28
Speaker 2: checkbook with a carbon copy in it, and so we
5:31
Speaker 2: could go to the airport and look and see what
5:34
Speaker 2: flights were open, and we could write our own ticket
5:37
Speaker 2: to go wherever we wanted to, as long as there
5:39
Speaker 2: was a flight.
5:40
Speaker 1: And a seat and a seat. Wow.
5:41
Speaker 2: Right, And so we'd go travel on the weekends, we'd go,
5:45
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes we'd go on a little bit more
5:47
Speaker 2: exotic trips. I remember one weekend we just flew to
5:51
Speaker 2: Paris for a three day trip to go to the
5:53
Speaker 2: Paris Boat Show and then turned around and came home.
5:56
Speaker 2: And so that was a lot of stuff that I think,
5:59
Speaker 2: you know now as a parent an adult, I'm like, wow,
6:02
Speaker 2: how do you do that without that little magic book
6:05
Speaker 2: of tickets?
6:05
Speaker 1: Yeah? Right, It's a lot harder, for sure, it is.
6:08
Speaker 2: So we got to do a lot of neat, little
6:10
Speaker 2: trips like that, and so I feel fortunate, and I
6:13
Speaker 2: think that the best part about that is it opened
6:15
Speaker 2: my eyes to not just travel, but international travel.
6:19
Speaker 1: Sure.
6:19
Speaker 2: Along that same period, when I was in high school,
6:22
Speaker 2: I was racing sailboats a lot, and that required a
6:26
Speaker 2: lot of travel as well, because we raced at very
6:28
Speaker 2: competitive level, which made you travel around the country and
6:31
Speaker 2: you got to see a lot more than just your hometown.
6:34
Speaker 1: Well, and I remember, I mean, and it's interesting how
6:37
Speaker 1: sailing has remained woven throughout your life. But one of
6:41
Speaker 1: the things that I do remember was that you felt
6:44
Speaker 1: like you learned a lot about working with a team,
6:47
Speaker 1: you learned a lot about how to prepare, in this
6:50
Speaker 1: case a sailboat or a vehicle. But talk a little
6:52
Speaker 1: bit about what were some of those core lessons that
6:54
Speaker 1: you brought away as a young man, as a teammate,
6:58
Speaker 1: and as the beginning of being a part of travel
7:03
Speaker 1: from that sailing experience.
7:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the biggest takeaway I think that relates
7:07
Speaker 2: to travel and adventure is to have flexibility. There's a
7:11
Speaker 2: lot of planning that goes into it, and there's a
7:14
Speaker 2: lot of skill development, But at the end of the day,
7:16
Speaker 2: if you're not flexible with the conditions that you're presented with,
7:20
Speaker 2: then you're not going to succeed.
7:22
Speaker 1: Interesting, and I find that sailing is so dynamic.
7:26
Speaker 2: It's constantly a changing environment. You can be as well
7:29
Speaker 2: prepared and well trained and skilled as you want to be,
7:32
Speaker 2: and at the end of the day, it's not necessarily your.
7:33
Speaker 1: Calling out come. Yeah. Sure, you know, the weather.
7:36
Speaker 2: Plays such a big part of it, just mechanical failures
7:39
Speaker 2: and fatigue, and if everything's right, you can have great
7:43
Speaker 2: You can have a lot of great success, you can
7:44
Speaker 2: have amazing adventures, you can have really significant you know, wins. Yeah,
7:49
Speaker 2: you take that into travel, and you know, think about
7:51
Speaker 2: all the travel you've done and some of the travel
7:53
Speaker 2: that we've done together. Is you can do everything to
7:57
Speaker 2: the point that you find it to be the right
7:58
Speaker 2: way to do it, and at the end of the day,
8:01
Speaker 2: you might not get allowed to cross that bork sing. Yeah,
8:04
Speaker 2: sure for whatever reason.
8:06
Speaker 1: You might.
8:06
Speaker 2: You know, have a mechanical with a vehicle, and there's
8:09
Speaker 2: so many variables, and I think flexibility really plays a
8:11
Speaker 2: lot into it.
8:12
Speaker 1: It absolutely does. And then you you built on top
8:15
Speaker 1: of that foundation of a lot of skill. You know.
8:18
Speaker 1: One of the stories that you know, I wanted to
8:20
Speaker 1: share on the podcast was it was not that long
8:22
Speaker 1: ago that that Amy and you came to the lake
8:26
Speaker 1: and we were sailing my little sailboat and it's a
8:30
Speaker 1: Catalina two fifty for those that are interested, but that's
8:33
Speaker 1: you know, you can sleep on it, and it's got
8:35
Speaker 1: a little galley, a little little bathroom and everything. But
8:38
Speaker 1: the fastest that I had ever gotten that boat was
8:41
Speaker 1: five point seven knots. And that's me taking everything that
8:44
Speaker 1: I had learned crossing the Pacific and listened to you
8:47
Speaker 1: and and listened to to Rusty and listened to Kevin
8:51
Speaker 1: and these guys, these incredibly experienced sailors, everything that I
8:54
Speaker 1: could do to get that boat to five point seven knots,
8:58
Speaker 1: and you came out, and I remember just how nuanced
9:04
Speaker 1: your inputs were to the sail and also like the
9:08
Speaker 1: position of the boat into the wind, and the next
9:11
Speaker 1: thing I know, I think we hit six point two
9:13
Speaker 1: nots as I remember, or at least six point Yeah.
9:16
Speaker 1: What was really interesting to me is like, well, theoretically,
9:19
Speaker 1: I mean, the theoretical whole speed of that boat is
9:22
Speaker 1: a little bit less than that. So the only thing
9:26
Speaker 1: I could figure is because it has a wing keel,
9:28
Speaker 1: there's got to be some factors that allowed that boat
9:31
Speaker 1: to actually sail that fast. Or maybe it was just
9:34
Speaker 1: for a moment in time before the hydraulics and physics
9:37
Speaker 1: start to take over again, that's right. But it was
9:41
Speaker 1: just really fun for me to see and that reminder
9:44
Speaker 1: of that it is so important to work on the
9:47
Speaker 1: fundamentals of these activities. Be skilled in the operation of
9:52
Speaker 1: a winch, be skilled in communicating with your partner on
9:55
Speaker 1: spotting and all of that other stuff. Because when I
9:58
Speaker 1: was watching Amy and you sail my boat, you guys
10:01
Speaker 1: hadn't been on a sailboat together in a really long time. Yeah,
10:03
Speaker 1: it's been a while. Yeah so, and it certainly had
10:06
Speaker 1: been not been a long time since you were trying
10:07
Speaker 1: to optimize a boat for speed for fun now second
10:11
Speaker 1: nature to us, and it was you guys, it was
10:13
Speaker 1: the all of that muscle memory. Yeah, that was very cool.
10:16
Speaker 1: And I can see how the opportunity of working with
10:19
Speaker 1: a team in sailing would be so dynamic and challenging,
10:23
Speaker 1: and probably you're learning how to communicate in really frustrating environments, I.
10:27
Speaker 2: Would say so. And I think a big part of
10:30
Speaker 2: that is trust. Yeah, you you know, even some of
10:33
Speaker 2: these larger expeditions that we've done, whether it's vehicle based
10:37
Speaker 2: or sailboat based, you and I have both been a
10:40
Speaker 2: part of that process of vetting the team.
10:42
Speaker 1: Yeah.
10:42
Speaker 2: Right, So who's going to come along? What are their strengths,
10:45
Speaker 2: what are the weaknesses? Are the strengths a viable option
10:48
Speaker 2: for the for the trip that we're going to go do, sure?
10:51
Speaker 2: And then are the weaknesses? Are are they two weak those?
10:55
Speaker 2: Are they? You know, are they kind of that they're
10:57
Speaker 2: going to get opted out because of the weaknesses or
11:00
Speaker 2: or can you manage it? And that's where you kind
11:02
Speaker 2: of find this really great team.
11:04
Speaker 1: And not being afraid to put in boundaries in place
11:06
Speaker 1: with people that maybe you wanted to have come along,
11:08
Speaker 1: but they're not going to work out. You're way better expectations.
11:11
Speaker 1: You're way better off just saying you know what, it's
11:14
Speaker 1: not a good fit for you to come on the trip.
11:16
Speaker 1: I mean. And then sometimes that's like a family member,
11:19
Speaker 1: or sometimes that's a longtime friend that just hasn't proven
11:23
Speaker 1: to be reliable or a positive member of the experience.
11:28
Speaker 2: But I think that that trust factor in whether you're
11:31
Speaker 2: doing an expedition or a large trip by boat or
11:35
Speaker 2: by vehicle, if you trust the team and each member
11:38
Speaker 2: within their strengths and weaknesses, that makes all the difference,
11:42
Speaker 2: you know. I remember when Amy and I first got
11:45
Speaker 2: married two thousand. You know, the first thing we did
11:48
Speaker 2: is just sell everything. We bought a sailboat. We lived
11:51
Speaker 2: on it for a couple of years, and then we
11:52
Speaker 2: kind of disappeared and traveled on it for two years.
11:55
Speaker 2: And we had set that boat up to be single
11:59
Speaker 2: handable by each of us, so one persons sleeping and
12:03
Speaker 2: the other person's sailing. And this could be usually for
12:06
Speaker 2: big overnights and multi day where you've got multiple overnights
12:11
Speaker 2: to wake up at two thirty in the morning on
12:14
Speaker 2: your ear right, so you're the boat's healed over and
12:16
Speaker 2: you're in a storm, and you wake up and you're
12:19
Speaker 2: completely calm about it because you trust that the other
12:23
Speaker 2: person is completely competent and trustworthy, and you have no
12:28
Speaker 2: question about what's going on. And then to be able
12:30
Speaker 2: to fall back asleep. That says a lot about the
12:33
Speaker 2: people that you're traveling with. So we started out our
12:35
Speaker 2: marriage that way, which I think carries over to today.
12:38
Speaker 1: Oh, I see it, and you know, I think a
12:41
Speaker 1: carryover to the overlanding thing is if you're traveling with
12:44
Speaker 1: someone and you cannot feel comfortable closing your eyes while
12:47
Speaker 1: they're driving, sure, it's probably a good idea to adjust,
12:51
Speaker 1: either adjust expectations, or they need some additional training, or
12:55
Speaker 1: you need a different travel partner. Yeah, because it's so
12:58
Speaker 1: interesting how people drive to their own desires, not to
13:03
Speaker 1: the fact that they have a car filled with people
13:05
Speaker 1: or at least one other person. Sure, when we're driving
13:08
Speaker 1: overline vehicles, particularly internationally or during longer trips expeditions, I
13:13
Speaker 1: mean I think about when I was crossing Antarctica, you know, like,
13:17
Speaker 1: if I didn't get sleep, I wouldn't be able to
13:19
Speaker 1: drive for that next twelve fourteen hour stint. Right, how
13:23
Speaker 1: mindful that person was was really critical. I mean, could
13:26
Speaker 1: I can you sleep in the passenger seat with a
13:28
Speaker 1: person that's driving? Maybe ask yourself that question.
13:31
Speaker 2: So yeah, well I remember when we were driving across
13:33
Speaker 2: Europe in there, Yeah, and everything was great, and then
13:36
Speaker 2: I had to leave early, so I left. Yeah, you
13:39
Speaker 2: had a couple of their drivers with you. Yeah, and
13:41
Speaker 2: I remember talking with you the next week and it's
13:44
Speaker 2: it's a different.
13:44
Speaker 1: Experience, terrifying. Yeah, yeah, no, it makes it makes a
13:47
Speaker 1: really big difference. And so being able to get that rest.
13:50
Speaker 1: So let's back up a little bit because this story
13:53
Speaker 1: about Amy and you is is so interesting and it's
13:56
Speaker 1: also it's also real. I think it does carry over
13:59
Speaker 1: a lot to people that are traveling by vehicle as
14:01
Speaker 1: a couple. But it's a little bit of a fun story.
14:03
Speaker 1: So you were her teacher, weren't you? Yeah? Exactly, So
14:09
Speaker 1: she so she shows up for the for sailing class. Yeah,
14:12
Speaker 1: her and her ex boyfriend soon to be ex boyfriend.
14:17
Speaker 1: I like this, okay, all right, so I think it
14:19
Speaker 1: was with me. So they show up, They show up
14:23
Speaker 1: at the at the class. Now, did you did you
14:26
Speaker 1: feel a connection with her that that soon in the process?
14:29
Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah.
14:30
Speaker 2: We we kind of hit it off, you know, in
14:32
Speaker 2: the first as soon as we met. Yeah, sure to
14:34
Speaker 2: some degree.
14:35
Speaker 1: Well, and she's an amy just has the most like
14:38
Speaker 1: beautiful spirit about her, Like she has this infectious smile
14:42
Speaker 1: and this joy for life and and this optimism, this
14:46
Speaker 1: enthusiasm that really it comes across and so and so
14:49
Speaker 1: to you. But you know, I can see why it
14:52
Speaker 1: would she would be easy, a quick, quick person to
14:54
Speaker 1: fall for her.
14:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, we we connected early on, and we were buddies
14:58
Speaker 2: for a good year and a half. We go on
15:00
Speaker 2: dates with other people and then tell each other how
15:03
Speaker 2: horrible dating was.
15:04
Speaker 1: Yeah.
15:04
Speaker 2: Sure, you know, we were hanging out, go shoot pool
15:06
Speaker 2: and drinking buddies for a good year and a half
15:09
Speaker 2: before we ever kind of realized that we should just
15:12
Speaker 2: it was right in front of us.
15:14
Speaker 1: I'm sure. Well, sometimes we're I mean, at least guys
15:17
Speaker 1: are slow learners a little slowly. Oh well, that's and
15:20
Speaker 1: it's just such a neat it's a neat story. And
15:22
Speaker 1: I've been able to since I've known you guys. For
15:25
Speaker 1: we think we're talking about it this morning. It's about
15:28
Speaker 1: eighteen years that I've known you.
15:31
Speaker 3: Two thousand and six, two thousand and five. Maybe I
15:34
Speaker 3: think even the expedition it was even earlier than that
15:37
Speaker 3: because position Trophy. It was even before I started Expedition Portal.
15:42
Speaker 3: Because we were both part of the same land rover.
15:44
Speaker 3: It was like the Arizona land Rover Club.
15:46
Speaker 1: That's right, we were both part of And that was
15:48
Speaker 1: before I even started Expedition Portal.
15:50
Speaker 2: I put out and they had a chatboard or email
15:53
Speaker 2: or and I had I've always had a very competitive nature,
15:57
Speaker 2: whether it's be with kind of team sports or mall
15:59
Speaker 2: sports or sailing or whatever it was. And I remember
16:03
Speaker 2: having this land rovers a discovery to two thousand and one.
16:07
Speaker 2: You know, we'd go out and explore, but I was
16:09
Speaker 2: kind of getting bored with that part of it, sure,
16:11
Speaker 2: and I remember putting out this. Plus you go on
16:13
Speaker 2: the groups are great, but you go on these trail
16:15
Speaker 2: runs and everybody's going two miles an hour looking at
16:18
Speaker 2: every rock before they crawl over it, and I mean
16:20
Speaker 2: it was just very It was a long day and
16:24
Speaker 2: I was looking for something else, and so I actually
16:26
Speaker 2: put out to everybody like, hey, we have these incredibly
16:28
Speaker 2: capable trucks, are there any is there anything competitive that
16:31
Speaker 2: we can do with them? And you had responded that, hey,
16:34
Speaker 2: by the way I'm putting together this, it was the
16:36
Speaker 2: Expedition Trophy, right, and it was the very first one,
16:40
Speaker 2: and you would drop a coordinate out in the middle
16:42
Speaker 2: of the BLM lane.
16:43
Speaker 1: That was the best part of it, and the number
16:45
Speaker 1: of people who never made it, they could never find
16:48
Speaker 1: their way.
16:48
Speaker 2: And I remember getting I think it was that first one.
16:51
Speaker 2: It was on Wick and Bird out on the wash
16:55
Speaker 2: and there was this huge cliff that had to be
16:57
Speaker 2: three or four hundred feet tall that dropped down to
17:00
Speaker 2: the river, and I followed the coordinates and I wound
17:03
Speaker 2: up at the top of the cliff looking down at
17:06
Speaker 2: the camp.
17:07
Speaker 1: I would do that intentionally, just to mess with people,
17:09
Speaker 1: and then I had to it.
17:10
Speaker 2: It was like another three hours to figure out how
17:12
Speaker 2: to get down down to where you guys were. So yeah,
17:15
Speaker 2: I loved those events, and that's I think that's the
17:17
Speaker 2: first place we what we were like started hanging.
17:19
Speaker 1: Out, that's right for sure. We had met briefly when
17:22
Speaker 1: you bought my grandpa's welder before that the Lincoln Red Box.
17:26
Speaker 1: That's right exactly, So Amy and you you get together,
17:31
Speaker 1: and how did that conversation go? I mean, there's got
17:34
Speaker 1: to be so many people listening that would love to
17:36
Speaker 1: like wildly change their life. How do you go from
17:39
Speaker 1: both having basically corporate jobs to we're going to sell
17:44
Speaker 1: everything or move We're going to move onto a sailboat. Yeah?
17:46
Speaker 1: I mean, like how did that all go down? So?
17:48
Speaker 2: I think the easiest way to do it is is
17:51
Speaker 2: it kind of be in your early to mid twenties. Yeah, sure,
17:54
Speaker 2: or you got to be much older, or you've got
17:56
Speaker 2: to be a little bit older and well sorted out.
17:58
Speaker 2: I mean, I think about because we're looking at in
18:00
Speaker 2: that the next it's like, what do we do? Yeah,
18:02
Speaker 2: once the kids are kind of through college and that,
18:05
Speaker 2: and you know, that's not that far away, not that
18:08
Speaker 2: far and so we're scratching our heads and it's like,
18:10
Speaker 2: so what's the next chapter? But back then we kind
18:12
Speaker 2: of looked at everything and we didn't know how long it.
18:14
Speaker 1: Was going to take.
18:15
Speaker 2: The original intent was to circumnavigate. You know, we got
18:18
Speaker 2: married and we said, well, what are we going to do?
18:20
Speaker 2: Do you want to move out to the suburbs and
18:22
Speaker 2: buy a house and have kids and you know, or
18:24
Speaker 2: do you want to stay in the city and buy
18:26
Speaker 2: a brownstone which you couldn't even afford, but you know,
18:28
Speaker 2: the idea just like what are you going to do next? Right,
18:30
Speaker 2: We came up with this hair brain idea of let's
18:33
Speaker 2: sell everything that we own and we bought a sailboat
18:37
Speaker 2: in Florida and we lived on it for two years,
18:40
Speaker 2: saving money, and then we took off for two.
18:42
Speaker 1: Years and probably kind of preparing the boat.
18:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of preparation and that type of thing
18:48
Speaker 2: and just getting ready for it. And so we were
18:50
Speaker 2: planning on doing a circumnavigation and that's still to this
18:53
Speaker 2: day it's one of my kind of lifelong dreams is
18:56
Speaker 2: to circumnavigate.
18:57
Speaker 1: For sure.
18:57
Speaker 2: That's what the the intent was. And we or we
19:00
Speaker 2: were trying to get there, I think financially, we were
19:03
Speaker 2: trying to save up enough and we were trying to
19:04
Speaker 2: prepare the boat for that type of an endeavor.
19:07
Speaker 1: And what was the type of boat again, it was.
19:09
Speaker 2: A nineteen seventy eight Allied Princess. It was a stay Celle.
19:14
Speaker 1: Catch so it had two masks, two.
19:16
Speaker 2: Masks, three quarter keel Yeah. So it was a kind
19:19
Speaker 2: of a very well known blue water boat you made
19:23
Speaker 2: in the seventies. The hull was three inches thick. Sure,
19:25
Speaker 2: you know, I mean it was just back when they
19:26
Speaker 2: bounce off of icebergs. Yeah, it's back when they didn't
19:28
Speaker 2: really understand fiberglass, so they just like overbuilt everything. Sure,
19:32
Speaker 2: the intent was to circumnavigate. And after being in that
19:36
Speaker 2: environment of preparation, we were living in a marina where
19:40
Speaker 2: we saw like it was like the place that dreams
19:43
Speaker 2: went to die.
19:44
Speaker 1: I made the first step.
19:45
Speaker 2: But yeah, they're there, and everybody had their story of
19:48
Speaker 2: what they were going to do. Nobody was doing, and
19:51
Speaker 2: so one day we just kind of woke up and
19:53
Speaker 2: we said we're out of here. We didn't care how
19:56
Speaker 2: much money we had, we didn't care what project there
19:59
Speaker 2: we thought we still need to do on the boat.
20:01
Speaker 2: We basically just you know, I think we woke up,
20:03
Speaker 2: we call our family and our jobs and said you
20:06
Speaker 2: got a week, we're out of here, and then we
20:09
Speaker 2: just left. And I would say a lot of that
20:11
Speaker 2: probably correlates to a sailing adventure, any adventure, a backpacking adventure,
20:16
Speaker 2: a bicycling adventure, you know, really an overlanding adventure, anything
20:20
Speaker 2: that you're going to go do where you're going to
20:22
Speaker 2: completely step away from your day to day for a
20:24
Speaker 2: long period of time. You have to get to a
20:26
Speaker 2: certain point where you have some comfort in what you're doing.
20:29
Speaker 2: But you're never going to be fully prepared.
20:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the problem.
20:33
Speaker 2: And so if you can find a point where you
20:35
Speaker 2: can admit to yourself that like, Okay, we're probably going
20:37
Speaker 2: to be okay if we were just going to leave,
20:39
Speaker 2: but we want to do these five other projects. Don't
20:42
Speaker 2: worry about the projects and just go. We wound up,
20:45
Speaker 2: I find do we do it with overland adventures as well?
20:47
Speaker 2: We took too much stuff with us. We did projects
20:51
Speaker 2: to the vehicle or the boat that were in the
20:54
Speaker 2: long run, probably unnecessary. But when you're sitting in marina,
20:58
Speaker 2: they make you feel safe. They make you feel like, oh,
21:01
Speaker 2: if I do this one thing, I'm going to be
21:03
Speaker 2: able to be safer when I'm out there. Sure you're
21:06
Speaker 2: probably never gonna take that out of the box.
21:07
Speaker 1: Well, it's and it's like I've watched that's the only
21:11
Speaker 1: thing I watch on YouTube is sailing stuff. One of
21:14
Speaker 1: the ones that I watched was this French guy and
21:17
Speaker 1: he he it's this crazy minimalist boat. It's maybe twenty
21:21
Speaker 1: four feet long, and it does not have an engine.
21:24
Speaker 1: He has a sculling ore that was made for him
21:27
Speaker 1: on some island, you know, like near Tahiti. Like they
21:30
Speaker 1: made him this por like he probably had when it
21:33
Speaker 1: probably broke or whatever, and they made him one. It's
21:35
Speaker 1: this beautiful or and he has this this attachment on
21:38
Speaker 1: the back that he uses to scull the boat into
21:43
Speaker 1: the slip or into the sounds like fun, but that's
21:46
Speaker 1: too hardcore for me, but it just shows. It totally
21:48
Speaker 1: proves your point. And we say that a lot about
21:51
Speaker 1: with overlanding. Just go like whatever you've got, just start
21:54
Speaker 1: moving and then figure out what you really need and
21:56
Speaker 1: maybe you make some adjustments or whatever.
21:58
Speaker 2: In that regard is I think the preparation is how
22:01
Speaker 2: you're going to enjoy your time when you're out doing it.
22:05
Speaker 2: And one of the most frustrating things that I find,
22:08
Speaker 2: especially with overland vehicles, now, we test a lot of stuff,
22:11
Speaker 2: we play around with a lot of gear, so we
22:13
Speaker 2: we wind up bringing a lot more than we would
22:15
Speaker 2: normally bring on our own. And you and I have
22:17
Speaker 2: both experienced that will go do it little adventure just
22:20
Speaker 2: for ourselves, and we're like, you know, you don't even
22:24
Speaker 2: maybe bring a pair of socks, bedroll.
22:25
Speaker 1: And I sleep in the back of the Defender.
22:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you barely bring anything with you. But but
22:29
Speaker 2: I've had, you know, those experiences where you bring all
22:32
Speaker 2: the stuff and then you realize how much time you
22:36
Speaker 2: are spending managing this stuff instead of enjoying the environment
22:40
Speaker 2: that you went to go see to begin with. So
22:42
Speaker 2: in that regard, I think I'm a bit of a minimalist,
22:44
Speaker 2: but I'm also a bit of a gadget guy. I
22:47
Speaker 2: love all the gear, I love the innovation. I love
22:50
Speaker 2: to see kind of how in an ideal situation, like
22:53
Speaker 2: how does that piece of gear enhance the experience totally?
22:56
Speaker 1: And a lot of times you do.
22:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, it helps to be prepared, like read the instruction
23:00
Speaker 2: and install it before you get to camp.
23:01
Speaker 1: Well, but like what an important lesson that you two
23:04
Speaker 1: learned so early in life is like don't don't let
23:07
Speaker 1: the dream die in the marina? Like you chose. You chose,
23:10
Speaker 1: like you had the awareness to say, like, if we
23:12
Speaker 1: aren't careful, we're going to get more and more comfortable
23:15
Speaker 1: with the idea of not leaving and probably going to
23:18
Speaker 1: get promoted, and either you're going or you're going to
23:21
Speaker 1: think like, oh maybe we should buy a newer boat
23:23
Speaker 1: or a bigger boat or a more comfortable boat. You're right,
23:25
Speaker 1: you never actually get to go.
23:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Amy was a big driver in that. I
23:28
Speaker 2: think she actually thinks she said, we need to go
23:32
Speaker 2: or we got to go do something else.
23:34
Speaker 1: Yeah.
23:34
Speaker 2: Sure, because the you know, the marinas are great and
23:36
Speaker 2: it depends on why you're there, but it's easy to
23:39
Speaker 2: stag name so that she was a really good.
23:41
Speaker 1: Cattle becomes a floating condo and that's it.
23:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, very much so. And then your boat gets so
23:46
Speaker 2: overwhelmed with everything else that you never even go use
23:49
Speaker 2: that as a boat.
23:49
Speaker 1: Right exactly, Or it's like, oh my gosh, I got
23:52
Speaker 1: to disconnect that and everything else. Yeah. No, that's so
23:54
Speaker 1: funny because the last time that I went to the sailboat,
23:57
Speaker 1: I literally just said, I'm not even going to plug
23:59
Speaker 1: anything in. I am going to get to the boat.
24:01
Speaker 1: I'm going to throw the things on there, and I'm
24:02
Speaker 1: going to cast off the battles and what's there for.
24:04
Speaker 1: So like otherwise, if you get plugged in and you
24:07
Speaker 1: get the ac going and you know, you make a
24:09
Speaker 1: cocktail and then and then you can't go sailing. So
24:12
Speaker 1: it just it just got on the boat and went.
24:14
Speaker 1: But so you guys, you guys decide you're going to
24:17
Speaker 1: leave in a week. And then now the two of you,
24:20
Speaker 1: how long has you had you guys been together at
24:22
Speaker 1: this point a couple of.
24:23
Speaker 2: Years probably, I'd say like four years, close to four years,
24:27
Speaker 2: because we maybe a little bit longer than that. You know,
24:30
Speaker 2: we were buddies for about a year and a half
24:31
Speaker 2: and we dated for about a year and then and
24:34
Speaker 2: then we got married in two thousand and then like
24:37
Speaker 2: our honeymoon was driving from Chicago to Florida to move
24:40
Speaker 2: on to the boat.
24:41
Speaker 1: You know.
24:41
Speaker 2: A year and a half two years after that is
24:43
Speaker 2: when we took off and we just went again. That
24:46
Speaker 2: that whole idea of circumnavigating turned into just going. Yeah,
24:51
Speaker 2: so we went south, We went into the Caribbean. I
24:53
Speaker 2: remember being so marathon Key is a very common hop
24:58
Speaker 2: off point across the Gulf Stream, and we were sitting
25:01
Speaker 2: in the bar and there was this family that was
25:04
Speaker 2: going over the map and they knew detailed, day by
25:07
Speaker 2: day every place we.
25:08
Speaker 1: Were going to go and everything. They were going to do.
25:10
Speaker 2: When they were there, sure, and they looked at us
25:13
Speaker 2: and they said, where are you guys going to go?
25:15
Speaker 2: We said South? I guess. I mean we had no idea.
25:18
Speaker 1: Which was you knew how to sail and that was enough.
25:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was actually very for a hot second,
25:23
Speaker 2: we felt unprepared. Yeah, but in the long run it
25:27
Speaker 2: was very liberating because we didn't feel like we had
25:29
Speaker 2: this list of things that we had to do, or
25:32
Speaker 2: we missed a couple of things in hindsight, but we
25:36
Speaker 2: it was a spectacular time to just kind of go wander.
25:39
Speaker 2: And so then about about two years down there, and
25:42
Speaker 2: then we kind of it was time for the next chapter.
25:45
Speaker 2: So we wanted to start a family and that's what
25:48
Speaker 2: brought us back to the States.
25:49
Speaker 1: And how long did you did you two sail in
25:52
Speaker 1: the Caribbean? Right around two years? Amazing. One of the
25:55
Speaker 1: things that I remember Amy and you talking about that
25:58
Speaker 1: stuck with me was that there were and correct me
26:01
Speaker 1: if I get the numbers wrong, because I've probably inflated
26:04
Speaker 1: the coolness of this situation, but it was very cool.
26:06
Speaker 1: So you guys were being super frugal, yeah, and there
26:10
Speaker 1: were there was a series of months in a row
26:12
Speaker 1: that you too, spent less than one hundred and twenty
26:15
Speaker 1: dollars a month total, and expenses other than I think
26:19
Speaker 1: you had some insurance on the boat or there was
26:21
Speaker 1: something else on that.
26:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had a couple of i'd call them like
26:24
Speaker 2: background expenses, yeah, storage units or whatever. Yeah, insurance, and
26:28
Speaker 2: I think we were still carrying a car insurance. We
26:30
Speaker 2: had boat insurance, things like that. Yeah, things that you
26:33
Speaker 2: just kind of it's really hard to get rid of them.
26:35
Speaker 2: And then and the boat insurance was required for what
26:38
Speaker 2: we were doing. And so aside from that, I think
26:41
Speaker 2: as far as just like operational costs, which might be
26:44
Speaker 2: you know, fuel and food and whatever luxuries, we decided
26:49
Speaker 2: to partake in.
26:49
Speaker 1: A couple of beers. Yeah, yeah, I.
26:51
Speaker 2: Think the least expensive one was the least expensive month
26:55
Speaker 2: was right around one hundred and fifty dollars.
26:57
Speaker 1: I mean, and that's incredible. And I remember you would
27:00
Speaker 1: the story went on, and you'd wake up in the
27:02
Speaker 1: morning and you'd say, Hey, Amy, what do you want
27:03
Speaker 1: to have for dinner? And she'd be like, I want lobster,
27:05
Speaker 1: and you'd go, you would just gobs, you go dive
27:08
Speaker 1: into the ocean like this this bounty of nature. You
27:12
Speaker 1: guys would catch your protein and you had rice and
27:14
Speaker 1: beans on board and island life and it just didn't matter.
27:18
Speaker 1: It just didn't matter. But you think about the people
27:20
Speaker 1: who they toil their entire life seventy years to have
27:25
Speaker 1: this pool of money that like they could have stopped
27:28
Speaker 1: twenty years earlier. Like no, and I'm not suggesting that
27:31
Speaker 1: that's right for everyone, And people have families, and it's
27:33
Speaker 1: not at all a criticism. It's just it is a choice, Like,
27:36
Speaker 1: we're not really stuck oftentimes.
27:39
Speaker 2: I think it's a change in lifestyle. Yeah, Right, So
27:42
Speaker 2: we're all very used to a certain lifestyle, whether it's
27:46
Speaker 2: whether it's a luxurious lifestyle or whether it's just the
27:48
Speaker 2: expense of the of kind of the requirements.
27:52
Speaker 1: Right.
27:52
Speaker 2: Sure, you've got kids, if you've got kids in college,
27:55
Speaker 2: if you've got you know, whatever, payments that are just
27:58
Speaker 2: kind of part of whatever you've gotten yourself into, right sure,
28:01
Speaker 2: And so it's and then you get used to it, right,
28:03
Speaker 2: So then it's hard to completely completely minimize unless it's
28:07
Speaker 2: something that you truly want to be doing. We didn't
28:09
Speaker 2: have that much money when we left, maybe like ten grand,
28:13
Speaker 2: you know, and for something like that. It's that's nothing,
28:16
Speaker 2: you know, we we just kind of figured it out
28:17
Speaker 2: along the way. Sure, and it's it's in hindsight, it's
28:20
Speaker 2: totally different than now. I mean we didn't have we
28:23
Speaker 2: had a pocket mail. Pocket mail is like how you
28:25
Speaker 2: would do email. And it was this little tiny it
28:28
Speaker 2: was like a big BlackBerry with a fuld out thing
28:30
Speaker 2: that went up against the payphone. And you know that
28:33
Speaker 2: sound that the fax machine makes, that's what would happen.
28:36
Speaker 2: That's how you sent an email.
28:37
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, So you'd have a payphone in.
28:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, we spent more money on phone cards than anything else.
28:43
Speaker 2: I mean, it was this thing had it would flip open,
28:46
Speaker 2: it had a thumb keyboard on it, you'd write an email,
28:49
Speaker 2: you'd close it, you'd pop out the little phone connector
28:54
Speaker 2: and you'd hold them up to each other and they
28:55
Speaker 2: would do the fax machine garbles back and forth. And
28:59
Speaker 2: then that's how you send an email. And so now
29:02
Speaker 2: looking at it with something like starlink, we'd probably still
29:05
Speaker 2: be out there, Yeah, because you could have worked. You
29:06
Speaker 2: could have worked from the road. You can work from
29:08
Speaker 2: wherever you're at, you know. I think that going back
29:11
Speaker 2: to like how you would just go and do it.
29:14
Speaker 2: It's kind of find that reduction in needs. Yeah, and
29:17
Speaker 2: then but you're doing it for the for the right reasons.
29:21
Speaker 2: You're doing because you want to be doing it. So
29:23
Speaker 2: you find that reduction in needs and then you kind
29:25
Speaker 2: of shift the perspective and then you and you go
29:27
Speaker 2: do it and if that's not what you want, it
29:29
Speaker 2: might not work.
29:30
Speaker 1: Was that one of the happiest times of your life? Yeah?
29:32
Speaker 2: Probably probably. I mean it's twenty years and I still
29:34
Speaker 2: talk about it for thirty years.
29:36
Speaker 1: And yeah, and I think because because Matt Scott talks
29:39
Speaker 1: about a similar thing when Laura and him drove around
29:42
Speaker 1: Australia and it was like they had the low least
29:45
Speaker 1: amount of money they've ever had in their life and
29:47
Speaker 1: he had never been happier. Yeah, So it's just well,
29:50
Speaker 1: it's it's just such a tough lesson to learn, it is,
29:54
Speaker 1: you know.
29:55
Speaker 2: But I mean, and you guys know that now, and
29:57
Speaker 2: we do and we'll figure out how to get back
29:59
Speaker 2: to it.
29:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. Right. Well, but that's another thing that
30:02
Speaker 1: I so respect about you, Brian, is that when Amy
30:05
Speaker 1: and you decided to have children, and like very soon
30:08
Speaker 1: after you had both kids, I mean, you guys were
30:12
Speaker 1: a regular part of my life. So I've seen your
30:14
Speaker 1: kids grow up, and I've seen the quality of parents
30:18
Speaker 1: that Amy and you are. I have never once seen
30:21
Speaker 1: you guys make a decision that wasn't fully vested in
30:25
Speaker 1: the success of your children and the happiness and the
30:28
Speaker 1: safety and the care of your kids. And that is
30:30
Speaker 1: a huge sacrifice. Like you've literally said, this is now
30:34
Speaker 1: the most important thing in my life. And the idea
30:37
Speaker 1: of going sailing or living one hundred and twenty bucks
30:39
Speaker 1: a month, that doesn't it doesn't fit with what is
30:42
Speaker 1: now the most important thing in your life.
30:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, well there. And they're great kids and we have
30:46
Speaker 2: they're amazing. It's very fortunate that we have. I think
30:48
Speaker 2: we have an amazing family. Yeah, you know, and that helps. Yeah,
30:52
Speaker 2: you know, there's a lot that is the new priority,
30:54
Speaker 2: you know, and things are going great.
30:56
Speaker 1: Both kids are.
30:57
Speaker 2: Successful and they're amazing. My daughter just went into college
31:01
Speaker 2: and my you know, son's junior in high school and
31:03
Speaker 2: they're both you know, for what was.
31:05
Speaker 1: He at six six foot four, two hundred and twenty
31:07
Speaker 1: pounds senior, Yeah, junior, I don't know, a little bit different.
31:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a junior. So he's sixteen years old. He's
31:14
Speaker 2: what he's about six foot four, Yeah, I think he's
31:17
Speaker 2: right at six foot four and he's about one.
31:19
Speaker 1: Hundred and eighty pounds. That's crazy.
31:21
Speaker 2: And so he's you know, he's succeeding at everything he does,
31:25
Speaker 2: you know, four point zero kid.
31:26
Speaker 1: And biking and everything else.
31:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's wicked fast on a mountain bike. You know
31:32
Speaker 2: our daughter Charlie, she just went into her freshman year
31:35
Speaker 2: of college. She got a partial scholarship. She's four point zero.
31:39
Speaker 2: I mean, everything is just kind of going really well.
31:43
Speaker 1: But that's because Amy and you made that a priority. Well,
31:46
Speaker 1: they do a lot of hard work on their own.
31:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, we kind of we've always kind of said, well,
31:50
Speaker 2: let's let's do whatever we can to facilitate the opportunity,
31:54
Speaker 2: make the opportunity available. Sure, and if they want to
31:57
Speaker 2: take it and run with it, they can, and that's
32:01
Speaker 2: what they've chosen to do.
32:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're both super driven. Yeah, let's move on a
32:05
Speaker 1: little bit now. So there was this fateful day, I
32:09
Speaker 1: think it was sometime in two thousand and six and
32:12
Speaker 1: I call you up and I said, hey, Brian, you
32:13
Speaker 1: want to you want to go meet for lunch and
32:15
Speaker 1: in Phoenix. I want to talk to you about an idea.
32:18
Speaker 1: We went to the sushi broker we did. Yeah, that's
32:21
Speaker 1: right in North Scottsdale, I think something like that, and
32:24
Speaker 1: we met up for lunch and we talked about this
32:27
Speaker 1: crazy idea called Overland Journal. I remember that. Yeah, it
32:30
Speaker 1: was you and Chris MARIZONI that's right. We were trying
32:34
Speaker 1: to figure out who we were going to bring on
32:37
Speaker 1: in the business development role because I knew that was
32:40
Speaker 1: so important. I mean, it was something that I learned
32:42
Speaker 1: really early on in business is to never underestimate the
32:46
Speaker 1: importance of really talented business development people and then to
32:50
Speaker 1: pay them the most that you can possibly afford because
32:53
Speaker 1: there's such a critical piece of an organization. So I
32:57
Speaker 1: knew that that role was going to be the most
33:00
Speaker 1: critical role that we had with a new fledgling business.
33:03
Speaker 1: And you were employee number one. Yeah you're still number one,
33:06
Speaker 1: Bryan in my mind. So yeah, we started off with
33:10
Speaker 1: his sushi restaurant, and you were like you were in
33:12
Speaker 1: it from like the first second. You're like, yeah, man,
33:14
Speaker 1: let's go.
33:15
Speaker 2: And I was right, I think at the time, and
33:17
Speaker 2: I was ready to do like my own thing. Sure,
33:20
Speaker 2: And what a great opportunity with kind of a very
33:23
Speaker 2: again with a vetted team of people. Yeah, and everybody
33:26
Speaker 2: brought their own strengths to the idea. Sure, you know,
33:30
Speaker 2: I know we had you guys. We had Jonathan Hansen,
33:33
Speaker 2: who was like the editor in chief, Yeah.
33:35
Speaker 1: One of the world class editor Yeah, really.
33:37
Speaker 2: Well known on the journalism side. And yeah, I think
33:40
Speaker 2: we just brought everybody together in it. It took a
33:42
Speaker 2: couple of years. It worked out, it did.
33:44
Speaker 1: It was mostly terrifying in the beginning, but we kept
33:48
Speaker 1: working our way through it. And you were still working
33:50
Speaker 1: full time for the first couple of years. But but
33:54
Speaker 1: then you at some point in time you decided it
33:56
Speaker 1: was time to come to Prescott. And I think year
33:58
Speaker 1: did you guys move up here?
33:59
Speaker 2: We moved up here in twenty eleven, but I think
34:03
Speaker 2: I went I probably went full time all in on
34:07
Speaker 2: around two thousand and nine, so we had started. I
34:09
Speaker 2: think that original conversation with two thousand and six published
34:13
Speaker 2: the first issue Spring two thousand and seven. In two
34:15
Speaker 2: thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, I was working
34:17
Speaker 2: for a for a full service marketing firm at agency
34:21
Speaker 2: down in Phoenix, and every definition of the term I
34:24
Speaker 2: was moonlighting Overland Journal. We all were I think, sure,
34:28
Speaker 2: the agency that I worked for was really pigeonholed into
34:32
Speaker 2: high end real estate development. That's what we were doing.
34:34
Speaker 2: So two thousand and eight came along, Oh yeah, it's
34:37
Speaker 2: a bad time, bad time for real estate. But we
34:40
Speaker 2: were kind of at the high end of the spectrum, right,
34:42
Speaker 2: So we were doing these big private real estate developments
34:46
Speaker 2: like from scratch. So it took about a year for
34:49
Speaker 2: all that to catch up to the development side. By
34:52
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine, all of a sudden, that world
34:55
Speaker 2: went downhill pretty quick, and so that became an opportunity
34:59
Speaker 2: for to say, Okay, am I going to go to
35:02
Speaker 2: another company and get you know, another desk in a
35:06
Speaker 2: corner office type deal, or am I going to kind
35:09
Speaker 2: of do this overland thing full time?
35:11
Speaker 1: Get out of an arena one hundred percent? Right?
35:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, And again the catalyst in my life, Amy was like,
35:17
Speaker 2: just do it. So that's when you know, I went
35:20
Speaker 2: full time into the Overland Journal and Expedition Portal and
35:23
Speaker 2: just pushed as hard as I could on that. And
35:26
Speaker 2: then the next kind of the next evolution was in
35:30
Speaker 2: twenty eleven, Amy was graduating from her master's degree, as
35:35
Speaker 2: part of her master's degree, she had she had to
35:37
Speaker 2: stop working and do this like three or six month internship.
35:41
Speaker 2: So she did that, and then after she was done
35:44
Speaker 2: with the internship, and it was really this as part
35:46
Speaker 2: of her master's degree. It was a you know, an
35:49
Speaker 2: experiential practice of an internship. And after that she had
35:53
Speaker 2: this opportunity of, you know, to she go back to
35:55
Speaker 2: the job that she had before or she kind of
35:57
Speaker 2: had a clean slate. So that's when we we were
36:00
Speaker 2: living in Phoenix, which neither one of us really enjoyed Phoenix.
36:04
Speaker 1: Sure, so that's when we've been acquired.
36:07
Speaker 2: People do it, But that's when we moved up to Prescott,
36:09
Speaker 2: and then I think that I was really good for
36:11
Speaker 2: all of us. I thought that was kind of another
36:13
Speaker 2: shot in the arm. It seemed like it because we
36:15
Speaker 2: were all in the office every day or immediately accessible.
36:18
Speaker 1: To No the business really grew at that point because
36:20
Speaker 1: then we had we had the whole kind of dream team,
36:23
Speaker 1: all firing on all cylinders. Yeah, so then you've done
36:26
Speaker 1: some really interesting trips since since you started working with us. So,
36:31
Speaker 1: I mean, I think back on one of the first
36:34
Speaker 1: real big ones that we did together was driving up
36:37
Speaker 1: to tuk tuk tuk. Oh, that's right, with the guys
36:40
Speaker 1: from AEV that's right. And before that you would helped
36:43
Speaker 1: me with Expedition seven, we moved some trucks throughout Europe
36:47
Speaker 1: and that was really cool too. But you know, it
36:49
Speaker 1: was definitely a mission, a delivery. It was like a
36:51
Speaker 1: delivery vehicle delivery mission. Nine countries in five days, that's right.
36:56
Speaker 1: We drove from from Prague to Teresa's place in France.
37:01
Speaker 2: That's right, the south of France, that's right, and then
37:04
Speaker 2: we went all the way up to Estonia.
37:06
Speaker 1: Yes, so then we had to drive them. Did you
37:08
Speaker 1: drive them with to Estonia? Yeah? The border, that's right. Yeah,
37:12
Speaker 1: that's right. Exactly you helped me get them all the
37:15
Speaker 1: way up to Estonia because we were about to cross Russia,
37:17
Speaker 1: that's right.
37:18
Speaker 2: Like the next day that we met that Russian fixer
37:22
Speaker 2: and Andre Andre and then that's where we kind of
37:25
Speaker 2: did the handoff.
37:26
Speaker 1: That's right.
37:26
Speaker 2: Andre flew in, I handed the keys to him, and
37:30
Speaker 2: then I flew.
37:30
Speaker 1: Out, that's right, and then the rest of the team
37:32
Speaker 1: came in. Yeah. That was I mean imagine like today,
37:35
Speaker 1: that'd be impossible, Like you can't, you wouldn't even think
37:37
Speaker 1: about trying to cross Russia right now, Like, it's amazing
37:40
Speaker 1: how these windows of opportunity open and then close. So
37:44
Speaker 1: like the people totally yeah, hope, I mean I hopefully changed.
37:48
Speaker 1: Hopefully it changes. Yeah, you can be rational optimists. Yeah,
37:51
Speaker 1: it does. It always ends up coming around. So we
37:54
Speaker 1: did that, and then we did this big trip up
37:56
Speaker 1: to talk and that was your first experience in the
38:00
Speaker 1: the high latitudes overlanding and what what did you take
38:03
Speaker 1: away from that experience being in such cold environments but
38:08
Speaker 1: also in a very different kind of vehicle than you'd
38:10
Speaker 1: ever traveled in.
38:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, that trip, I think that was a very secure trip.
38:15
Speaker 2: I thought in the sense that one nothing went wrong.
38:19
Speaker 2: Vehicles were flawless, and I never felt like anything was
38:22
Speaker 2: going to go wrong. I mean, we were driving through
38:23
Speaker 2: white outs. We had that one stretch of the road.
38:27
Speaker 2: It was the Dempster Dempster Highway, So there was that
38:30
Speaker 2: one stretch of the Dempster where we had just made
38:33
Speaker 2: it through before they closed the gate. And then when
38:36
Speaker 2: we showed up on the other end, they thought that
38:38
Speaker 2: the road was clear. They didn't expect anybody to be
38:41
Speaker 2: out there.
38:41
Speaker 1: That's right. It was a total total white out.
38:44
Speaker 2: And I think that whole time we were getting out
38:47
Speaker 2: of the cars, we were taking photos in the white out,
38:49
Speaker 2: I like I never felt and maybe it's just like
38:53
Speaker 2: those type of extreme environments, I'm very comfortable with them.
38:56
Speaker 1: And also they're they're one of those things like you
38:58
Speaker 1: can't really think about what might go wrong because the
39:00
Speaker 1: problem is is like everything is fine until it's really
39:03
Speaker 1: not fine.
39:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's got to go really wrong. I mean, you
39:06
Speaker 2: got we had four, you know, completely built out AEV trucks, right,
39:11
Speaker 2: we were fully supplied, right, had I think there were
39:13
Speaker 2: six of us, Yeah, and we had a snow machine.
39:16
Speaker 2: We did, I mean, we had all the things that
39:19
Speaker 2: the worst thing it could happen is maybe you're you
39:21
Speaker 2: sit there overnight because everything broke right.
39:24
Speaker 1: It just wasn't you know. There was only two times
39:27
Speaker 1: that I felt for my life. Was was or I
39:29
Speaker 1: was concerned about people's safety? Was you know? Dave decided
39:33
Speaker 1: to just start like driving out on the Arctic Ocean, remember,
39:36
Speaker 1: on the frozen sea ice. Yeah, he just like we
39:38
Speaker 1: were already on the frozen sea ice, but this was
39:40
Speaker 1: sea ice that had at least been like prepared for
39:44
Speaker 1: vehicle travel, right, And then he just like drives over
39:47
Speaker 1: this mound of snow and just starts driving out onto
39:50
Speaker 1: the ocean with frozen ocean in that flatbed white AEV truck,
39:56
Speaker 1: and I just and it was these are amazing photographs.
39:59
Speaker 1: I mean, don't get me wrong to think the whole
40:00
Speaker 1: thing was so cool, but it's like he's getting further
40:03
Speaker 1: and further away there, yeah, and there's there are polar
40:06
Speaker 1: bear and there are absolutely you could see like the
40:08
Speaker 1: oil drilling rigs and stuff like he was driving out
40:11
Speaker 1: into the ocean. That it was like, which was And
40:17
Speaker 1: so I got some of the most memorable photographs from
40:20
Speaker 1: that moment. And then the other one was there was
40:22
Speaker 1: this grizzly bear and it's just I don't know what
40:25
Speaker 1: I was thinking, but I wanted to get like it's
40:27
Speaker 1: like the reason why people get punted by bison and Yosemite.
40:31
Speaker 1: But like I'm like, look at this beautiful YouTube, look
40:34
Speaker 1: at this bear. So I stepped out of the vehicle.
40:37
Speaker 1: I don't know what I was thinking, and I'm taking
40:38
Speaker 1: photos of this bear. And I realized, like the bear
40:40
Speaker 1: is actually it looks like he's looking forward, but he's not.
40:43
Speaker 1: He's looking right at me. And I was like, oh,
40:46
Speaker 1: I'm better get back in the truck. Get back in
40:48
Speaker 1: the truck. Yeah, but that that was a really fun
40:50
Speaker 1: trip though, I'm most beautiful. It was just gorgeous environments
40:54
Speaker 1: and that was a fun one. And then a few
40:56
Speaker 1: years later we had the chance to do the Altar
40:59
Speaker 1: Desert with yeah too, polar extremes. Right, Yeah, that's right.
41:02
Speaker 2: You've got the Arctic and then you know that desert
41:05
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty degree desert.
41:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was very hot. In all of your overland travels,
41:10
Speaker 1: which you've done so much with your family too, what
41:12
Speaker 1: do you think is that is the top two three
41:16
Speaker 1: four takeaways the things that you've really learned in your
41:20
Speaker 1: now decades of overland travel.
41:22
Speaker 2: You know, preparation is key, I think, but not over
41:27
Speaker 2: preparing to the point that you've kind of neutered.
41:29
Speaker 1: It or that you never leave the marina. Yeah.
41:31
Speaker 2: Well, and not just that, but it's so easy to
41:34
Speaker 2: do to be so prepared that you take the adventure
41:37
Speaker 2: out of the adventure. Right, I mean, if you think
41:39
Speaker 2: about it, we can get on Google Earth and we
41:42
Speaker 2: can follow every dirt road and see everything that we
41:45
Speaker 2: would likely encounter.
41:46
Speaker 1: Right.
41:47
Speaker 2: I actually got to the point with navigation planning that
41:51
Speaker 2: I'll have a general idea of where I'm going, and
41:54
Speaker 2: I'll have maybe some if there's key roads and key
41:59
Speaker 2: tracks that like I have to get in order to
42:02
Speaker 2: do to get where I'm going, Like those are critical elements,
42:05
Speaker 2: that's the only way to get there. Sure, I'll make
42:07
Speaker 2: note of that. Otherwise I tend to just go in
42:09
Speaker 2: the general direction because I really get a lot out
42:12
Speaker 2: of Well, that road looks like it'll go to where
42:15
Speaker 2: we want, let's try it, you know. And if you
42:19
Speaker 2: I think, if you overplan that too much degree, you
42:22
Speaker 2: actually take a lot of that experience away.
42:24
Speaker 1: With serendipity.
42:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, the other thing would probably be less is more,
42:29
Speaker 2: which is a tough one because again, all these amazing
42:32
Speaker 2: products and gadgets out on the market that it really
42:36
Speaker 2: some of them do enhance the experience, and so it's
42:39
Speaker 2: hard to pick and.
42:40
Speaker 1: Choose maybe being selective, you know. I want you were
42:43
Speaker 1: forced into that. You did a lot of your travels
42:45
Speaker 1: for years, as I remember in a two door TJ. Yeah,
42:49
Speaker 1: we did. You had you were forced to be minimalists.
42:51
Speaker 1: You have four people, like two grown adults.
42:54
Speaker 2: So we did a trip from Arizona to the Canadian border,
43:00
Speaker 2: as much dirt as we could get, and and we
43:03
Speaker 2: tried to hit as many national parks as we could
43:05
Speaker 2: at the same time. Right, And this was like the
43:07
Speaker 2: family summer trip totally. It was a thirty day trip vacation.
43:13
Speaker 2: And I remember I don't know why. I probably do
43:17
Speaker 2: know why, but I remember asking, like you and a
43:20
Speaker 2: couple other people, as which are the three vehicles should
43:22
Speaker 2: we take? And everybody like pointed towards the most practical one,
43:26
Speaker 2: and I took the most impractical one. I took the
43:29
Speaker 2: two door TJE because I knew it was going to
43:32
Speaker 2: add that much more to the adventure, ye, right, And
43:34
Speaker 2: we overloaded the heck out of that thing. I remember
43:36
Speaker 2: pulling in at Jacksonville, Wyoming, getting to camp and looking,
43:40
Speaker 2: I did a walk around in the truck, and all
43:42
Speaker 2: of a sudden, I find I think I sheared off
43:45
Speaker 2: three wheel studs on a on a rear on a
43:48
Speaker 2: rear wheel, on a rear passenger wheel. I lost three
43:52
Speaker 2: wheel studs because we were so overloaded. I don't know
43:55
Speaker 2: how we didn't die or or crash or what. But
43:59
Speaker 2: and then I went I went back into town. I
44:01
Speaker 2: left the family at camp, and I went back into town.
44:03
Speaker 2: I found a hardware store. I found the appropriate like
44:07
Speaker 2: grade eight bolts, because they weren't the press in there.
44:10
Speaker 2: It was a Yukon, the Yukon axle of assembly, so
44:15
Speaker 2: they were actually threaded bolts. They weren't just like pressed
44:18
Speaker 2: in wheel studs.
44:19
Speaker 1: Interesting and might be why they broke because like the
44:23
Speaker 1: wheel studs are very specific yet allergy to them.
44:27
Speaker 2: So I got these grade eight bolts from some hardware
44:30
Speaker 2: store and I sat under a shady tree and I
44:33
Speaker 2: changed those wheel studs out myself on the side of
44:35
Speaker 2: the road.
44:36
Speaker 1: Amazing. It took forever, but I figured it out.
44:38
Speaker 2: And I think that that's that trip added a lot
44:41
Speaker 2: to the planning and preparation where that I think where
44:45
Speaker 2: that fine line of over overpreparing or being underprepared or
44:50
Speaker 2: being overloaded and still having an adventure.
44:53
Speaker 1: You know.
44:53
Speaker 2: I remember somewhere in I think it's southern Utah. There
44:57
Speaker 2: are these three mountains. There's like Crystal Mountain and then
45:00
Speaker 2: there's like the Moon Mountain and the Sun Mountain.
45:03
Speaker 1: The sounds like Sedona Vortex.
45:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's way out there. Literally, there's a national park.
45:10
Speaker 2: I don't remember any of the names right now, but
45:12
Speaker 2: there's a national park and then just north of that,
45:14
Speaker 2: you take this this dirt track that I remember Aimy
45:19
Speaker 2: and I looking at each other and then looking in
45:21
Speaker 2: the back seat at the kids and then kind of
45:23
Speaker 2: questioning whether or not this was a good idea, and
45:26
Speaker 2: we just still went and did it. We were incredibly remote, yeah,
45:29
Speaker 2: in this vehicle, this little TJ family of four.
45:33
Speaker 1: So the other thing that I really wanted to talk
45:36
Speaker 1: about and ask you about on this podcast because it's again,
45:39
Speaker 1: it's just been such a joy to watch aiming you
45:42
Speaker 1: travel together and remain so close and it's I'm not
45:45
Speaker 1: implying at all that you guys don't ever have challenges,
45:47
Speaker 1: but it's it's a beautiful relationship to see and it's
45:50
Speaker 1: so rare to see people stay together and to still
45:54
Speaker 1: be as in love with each other as you guys are.
45:57
Speaker 1: I mean, I just like when you guys get to
45:59
Speaker 1: gig and it's just really awesome. It's awesome, like's it's
46:03
Speaker 1: literally like two school kids, you know, like sometimes when
46:06
Speaker 1: you guys get get going. But it's like that is
46:09
Speaker 1: so rare to find. And I know that there are
46:11
Speaker 1: people that are listening that wish they could be closer
46:14
Speaker 1: with their spouse. So that they could travel better with
46:16
Speaker 1: their spouse, or they would like to travel with their
46:19
Speaker 1: spouse or within a new relationship. What advice would you
46:22
Speaker 1: give around relationships and traveling in remote areas around the
46:27
Speaker 1: world with your spouse. Jesus, it's like the million dollar question, right, Yeah,
46:31
Speaker 1: that's why I asked it. Yeah, I don't know.
46:33
Speaker 2: I mean for us, it comes pretty naturally. I don't
46:36
Speaker 2: know if I've ever analyzed it. I probably think about
46:39
Speaker 2: it more when we travel with other people who for
46:43
Speaker 2: whatever reason, it's just not working for right, right, you know,
46:46
Speaker 2: for us, I don't know if it's communication. I think
46:49
Speaker 2: it's more of an one. There's trusting. Like I said earlier,
46:53
Speaker 2: you've got trust in your travel partner. Sure, and so
46:55
Speaker 2: I mean she can do it. She can sail a
46:58
Speaker 2: boat by herself, she can do a you know, a
47:01
Speaker 2: vehicle winter recovery by herself. She can do all that stuff, right,
47:04
Speaker 2: So that's one less thing for the for us to
47:07
Speaker 2: worry about the other person.
47:08
Speaker 1: Right, or to have a conflict. Yeah.
47:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's got a lot of training and she's got
47:12
Speaker 2: a lot of competency, and so you've got that nice
47:16
Speaker 2: understanding there, and then it's it's also you kind of
47:19
Speaker 2: figure out, like you know, what's important to each other.
47:23
Speaker 2: You just kind of know when you're traveling what that
47:25
Speaker 2: other person's going to want to experience, and if you don't,
47:29
Speaker 2: then you ask, Like, I mean, we've had plenty of
47:31
Speaker 2: you're talking about all the great things, but we've had
47:33
Speaker 2: plenty of long days on the road where you know,
47:37
Speaker 2: you both get a little quippi and it's everybody's ready.
47:41
Speaker 2: And so we've actually learned, like like we'll look at
47:44
Speaker 2: each other and be like, hey, I think it's time
47:45
Speaker 2: for a cup of coffee and something to eat, you know.
47:48
Speaker 2: And so over time that just gets better because you
47:52
Speaker 2: learn the other person and she'll know the things, you know,
47:55
Speaker 2: like as relaxed and flexible as I can be. Like
47:58
Speaker 2: I will get to a point where I get really
48:01
Speaker 2: like particular about how the back of the truck is
48:05
Speaker 2: loaded and how things are lashed down and you know,
48:09
Speaker 2: and so she'll know she'd be like, hey, you know,
48:11
Speaker 2: we brought all the stuff out to the car and
48:13
Speaker 2: we're gonna let you put it in there. Okay, that
48:17
Speaker 2: makes sense.
48:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys have learned each other. And it's also
48:21
Speaker 1: I think it probably also helps it it seems like
48:24
Speaker 1: that the harder it gets and the more adventurous it gets,
48:27
Speaker 1: the more Amy is happy that it's happening. Yeah, like
48:30
Speaker 1: she just loves to be in it.
48:32
Speaker 2: We both thrive off of those situations that we know
48:37
Speaker 2: a lot of other people would be uncomfortable.
48:39
Speaker 1: Sure, And I think that's a big piece of it.
48:40
Speaker 1: You know, when you trust the person that you're with
48:42
Speaker 1: and you know that they're also like in it for
48:45
Speaker 1: the adventure no matter what you're coming up against, that's
48:48
Speaker 1: that's pretty empowering, I would think for a couple.
48:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know, as far as you ask
48:54
Speaker 2: keys or advice or something like that. And not that
48:56
Speaker 2: I'm in a position to like dictate anything, but I
48:59
Speaker 2: think the more you're able to understand, whether it's with
49:01
Speaker 2: your spouse or another travel partner or with your buddy, whatever,
49:05
Speaker 2: it is for everybody to understand what the what the
49:08
Speaker 2: objective is. And that objective might just be like we're
49:11
Speaker 2: going to go drive and we don't care where we
49:13
Speaker 2: end up. That objective might be like there's a specific
49:16
Speaker 2: point on the map that we're trying to get to.
49:18
Speaker 2: The objective might be, Hey, we want to drive in
49:21
Speaker 2: the deep sand. You know, whatever it might be like
49:24
Speaker 2: if everybody kind of has an idea of what is
49:27
Speaker 2: important to the other people involved, and then what their
49:30
Speaker 2: preferences are sure, and then to some degree like what
49:33
Speaker 2: makes them very uncomfortable and what makes them, you know,
49:37
Speaker 2: very joyous, and then you can avoid those discomforts, you know,
49:41
Speaker 2: throw them in purposely in an opportunity and time, Yeah,
49:44
Speaker 2: you know you can. You can kind of help manage
49:47
Speaker 2: the situation. And that goes both ways, right, that's for
49:50
Speaker 2: everybody involved is trying to help the others kind of
49:53
Speaker 2: have the best experience that they can.
49:55
Speaker 1: No, I've seen that, and you do that not only
49:57
Speaker 1: with Amy, but you do that with your kids. And
49:59
Speaker 1: it seems like that they do that for you too.
50:01
Speaker 1: But like, what a joy to have had decades of
50:05
Speaker 1: that kind of partnership with your wife and then now
50:09
Speaker 1: coming up on decades of travel with your kids and
50:12
Speaker 1: to see that they're into it, that they enjoy the
50:14
Speaker 1: adventure of.
50:15
Speaker 2: It, well, they do that. That's been an interesting path
50:18
Speaker 2: because there was a time none of the kids didn't
50:21
Speaker 2: want to get in the car, they didn't want to go.
50:24
Speaker 2: We joke with Max because something happened in his childhood.
50:28
Speaker 1: We don't know when where.
50:29
Speaker 2: Something we did I'm sure is if you say, hey, Max,
50:32
Speaker 2: you want to go on a hike, He's absolutely against it.
50:34
Speaker 2: He doesn't want to go on a hike. So we've
50:36
Speaker 2: had to say, hey, do you want to go on
50:37
Speaker 2: an adventure walk? He's like, yeah, that sounds great. So
50:42
Speaker 2: it was one of those hiking PTSD. Yeah, some hike.
50:45
Speaker 2: He didn't get to be the group leader or something.
50:47
Speaker 1: Not sure.
50:49
Speaker 2: And then Amy really doesn't enjoy the cold. I know,
50:51
Speaker 2: if we're going to go do something in the cold,
50:53
Speaker 2: then we just make sure that she's got an extra layer,
50:56
Speaker 2: a set of gloves, got all the good gear, all
50:59
Speaker 2: the good gear. She doesn't like the cold. She loves
51:01
Speaker 2: to ski. So you know, you figure that, you figure
51:03
Speaker 2: out how.
51:03
Speaker 1: To do it. Yeah, thank goodness for modern modern equipment.
51:09
Speaker 1: That's awesome, Brian. Any advice that you would give, you know,
51:14
Speaker 1: people coming new into overlanding or even a new a
51:17
Speaker 1: new a person who wants to start a new business
51:20
Speaker 1: in overlanding. What what are some pieces of advice that
51:22
Speaker 1: you give from all of these years of experience that
51:25
Speaker 1: you have.
51:25
Speaker 2: I'd say, if you're you know, getting into overlanding, use
51:28
Speaker 2: what you've got and just go do it. There's no
51:30
Speaker 2: real right or wrong way to do overlanding, and overlanding
51:34
Speaker 2: is essentially it's vehicle supported adventure. We can't tell you
51:38
Speaker 2: what that adventure part means, right, And if that means
51:42
Speaker 2: that you're going to go, you know, down the forest
51:44
Speaker 2: track and go bird watching, well that's that's fair, right.
51:48
Speaker 2: And if that means hey, I'm going to drive to
51:50
Speaker 2: the most remote point on the earth that I can access,
51:53
Speaker 2: sure that's fair too, sure right. And then you've got
51:56
Speaker 2: everything in between. I think it's really easy for people
51:58
Speaker 2: to get intimidated by either overlanding or any new sport
52:03
Speaker 2: or activity that they're going to get involved in. Sure,
52:06
Speaker 2: And if you can kind of lower those barriers of
52:10
Speaker 2: there's no absolute right or wrong way to do it,
52:13
Speaker 2: and the easiest way to do it is to use
52:15
Speaker 2: what you've got, use the vehicle you already have, use
52:18
Speaker 2: the equipment that you already have, and go do it.
52:23
Speaker 2: Go do whatever your version of it is. And then
52:26
Speaker 2: from there, if you want to evolve into the activity,
52:29
Speaker 2: you can start to identify what was easy, what was hard,
52:33
Speaker 2: Where do I think I need improvement, whether it's through
52:35
Speaker 2: your own training, as a driver or as you know,
52:38
Speaker 2: whatever it is. If you need more medical training, if
52:41
Speaker 2: you need more I mean you can get trained on anything, sure, right,
52:45
Speaker 2: So if you need more training, or if you need
52:47
Speaker 2: different type of equipment, you'll figure that out. As Yeah,
52:50
Speaker 2: you figured out. I'm saying, just go with what you've got.
52:52
Speaker 2: But if all you've got is a sweater and you
52:53
Speaker 2: go into a monsoon environment, well you're going to figure
52:56
Speaker 2: that out, but don't prevent it from letting you go
52:59
Speaker 2: for sure.
53:00
Speaker 1: Now that's great, that's great advice, Brian.
53:01
Speaker 2: And then from the business standpoint, I think you know,
53:04
Speaker 2: nowadays there's so many things out there in the marketplace,
53:07
Speaker 2: and there's so many different versions of them. You know,
53:10
Speaker 2: my advice would be to, you know, do your homework,
53:13
Speaker 2: study the environment a bit, the business environment and and
53:17
Speaker 2: kind of the consumer environment, and try to find a
53:19
Speaker 2: hole that hasn't been addressed yet, find a need that
53:22
Speaker 2: hasn't been addressed yet. We've got plenty of the same
53:26
Speaker 2: thing with a different color way or a different logo
53:29
Speaker 2: on it.
53:29
Speaker 1: It all comes in on the same container, all.
53:31
Speaker 2: Coming from the same place. I mean, we've got plenty
53:33
Speaker 2: of that. But if you can find a way to
53:36
Speaker 2: fill a need and provide a solution. Your your path
53:40
Speaker 2: to success is going to be much faster.
53:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's interesting, like even like unique componentry modification
53:46
Speaker 1: to the starlink. He's made himself a tidy little business
53:50
Speaker 1: providing a need that like it was a genuine need,
53:54
Speaker 1: not a lot of customers when people get I mean,
53:56
Speaker 1: I'm a customer, and I could not be more thrilled.
54:00
Speaker 1: He literally created something that didn't exist And now I've
54:04
Speaker 1: solved a problem that I had as an overland traveler.
54:06
Speaker 1: And it's this perfect little business that he runs out
54:09
Speaker 1: of Big Bear, California.
54:10
Speaker 2: So it probably feels a bit niche, but I think
54:13
Speaker 2: that there's more people that could use that product than
54:16
Speaker 2: know about.
54:17
Speaker 1: It, no question right, Yeah, No, more people that know
54:19
Speaker 1: about it, the more that's going to take it. Yea.
54:22
Speaker 1: And he focused on making something great and I love
54:25
Speaker 1: that quote. It's actually a Steve Martin quote. But it's
54:28
Speaker 1: be so good that they can't ignore you. There you go.
54:31
Speaker 1: So if you start off with making great products that really,
54:35
Speaker 1: like you said, really meets the needs of a customer,
54:37
Speaker 1: people will not be able to ignore you. They're going
54:40
Speaker 1: to talk about you. And then there's lots of other
54:42
Speaker 1: ways to amplify that message. But Brian man, it's been
54:45
Speaker 1: such a joy to have you in my life for
54:47
Speaker 1: these last multiple decades, you and Amy both and your kids.
54:52
Speaker 1: It's been not only the adventure of seeing the world
54:56
Speaker 1: many times together, but it's also been the adventure of
54:58
Speaker 1: building a business that we are proud of and that
55:01
Speaker 1: serves our community. We're an employee owned business. You're one
55:05
Speaker 1: of our partners, you're one of the owners of the business,
55:08
Speaker 1: and I'm so grateful that we got to get to
55:10
Speaker 1: this point after that sushi lunch many many years ago.
55:14
Speaker 1: But we thank you all for listening and remember that
55:16
Speaker 1: it's so important to cast off those bowel lines and
55:20
Speaker 1: to leave the marina and go out on your own adventure.
55:23
Speaker 3: Thanks Brian, You betake careat Thank you