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Understanding Craniosacral Therapy and Early Relational Health · Fit As A Fiddle

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Not unlike a tree doctor or an ecologist who looks at the tree rings to identify what the weather patterns have been over time.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: We as craniosacral therapists use our fingers to listen and identify.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking for the kinds of patterns of what is being held in the system and where.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, everyone.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Sneha Ghazi, a physical therapist, course creator, and mom.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: I own Sneha Physical Therapy, a private practice in New York City, and created the course Master Your Public Floor to help you transform the way you think about and move your body.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Use discount code FIT20 for a special 20% discount exclusively from my listeners at the link in all show notes.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Each episode brings phenomenal guests in the health and wellness space who share inspiring tips and tangible advice.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: All things health and wellness starts right here.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, everybody, and welcome to this week's episode on Fit as a Fiddle.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Our guest today is Dr.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Elise DiPella.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: She is a developmental psychologist and a somatic clinician, and she specializes in early relational health, infant development, parent-infant interaction, craniosacral therapy, and she's also an adjunct professor at Teachers College at Columbia University, where we both went and both are in some capacity have a history in.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really excited to talk today about craniosacral therapy, Elise, because this is something that our listeners don't have a lot of information on in this podcast.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I would really, really value your expertise because you've been in this field for so long and you come with a wealth of knowledge treating all kinds of people and all kinds of body types in this wonderful place of New York.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for being here.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing your wisdom and welcome to the show.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Dr.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sneha.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure to be with you.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, as you alluded to, so I am a craniosacral therapist.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: That is the frame I use for most of my interactions.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And just to be clear, craniosacral therapy was it's a modality of very light touch that works with the nervous system, the central nervous system, think cranium and spine to sacrum, craniosacral.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was developed by American uh osteopaths actually in the late 1800s and further developed then in the early 1900s to be more and more specific.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just interesting that it actually evolved from osteopathy, which is again the moving of the bones.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when it was discovered, it wasn't it wasn't always known, let's say, that the cranial bones move and that there was um there was a way to actually impact the nervous system through the through the cranium, through the spine and sacrum.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now that tradition has been carried on, is much more widespread in Europe at this time.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but here in the States, it evolved into two distinct branches.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: One, the Upledger Institute's um work, which is a school of what I would call the more mechanical functional um method, which is actually how I was introduced to craniopsychotherapy.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the other is a more holistic works more with the fluid systems, kind of the hydraulic systems of the body.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that is a uh less about less about actual mechanics and more about adjusting the whole system, like calibrating, if you will, or recalibrating the whole system, um, so that everything in the body's fluid systems, hydraulic systems runs smoothly.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, think of a system or a machine engine purring as opposed to being kind of lopsided.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, yeah.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: So what about craniosabral therapy confuses a lot of people?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: What's the what is the first thing that they think of, like, are you moving my bones?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Are you doing a joid mobilization?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: What exactly comes up for the general public?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm sure you've got this question a lot.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I'm also often asked, well, like what does a session entail?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And what a what a session entails basically you're you know, a full session runs about 60 minutes, initial sessions or when there's like briefing and debriefing following is is extra, but it's about 60 minutes on the table.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and you come in and you're you go fully clothed, comfortable clothing on the table, on a massage table.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And in the session, I use um and we use light touch in our fingers to identify patterns and rhythms of the fluid systems.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so much like an acupuncturist might take your pulse or pulses and be listening for the rhythm of the different pulses that are going on.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um I am listening, we are listening for, yes, we're listening for the circulatory rhythm, how is the blood moving for the lymph system?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: How is the lymph moving?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the around the spinal column, the dural, the meninges, which contains the fluid that nourishes and supports the entire nervous system.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll be listening for those rhythms.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think what surprises people most is that such gentle and precise touch can actually facilitate such profound changes in the body, and not just in the body, but in the entire kind of emotional well-being, because it is not, um, I would say, you know, the I would refer back to Bessel Vanderkook's The Body Knows the Score or any number of um evidential um science-based books on how the body retains information that we don't necessarily process at the time.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's especially true for pre-verbal and nonverbal events that have happened to us where the body is actually storing some tensions.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, not unlike a tree doctor or an ecologist who looks at the tree rings to identify what the weather patterns have been over time, we as craniosacral therapists use our fingers to listen and identify, I'm looking for the kinds of patterns of what is being held in the system and where.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I have a couple of questions because I'm thinking about all the audience members who are listening and curious.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: So when you say you're listening and you're using light touch, do you mean you're using your tactile senses to feel, or are you actually ascultating listening in some capacity?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's a form of listening touch.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm using my finger pads, um, sometimes my palm to pick up on the rhythms, to sense the rhythms.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's my listening.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: I see what you mean.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not an auditory listening, it's more of like a hand listening.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then another question that I have for people who are in the audience, so you have a pretty wide range of people from all over the world who uh who listen to this show.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: So a question that might come up would be well, something like the dura, right?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's not palpable externally, it's deep within.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or the lymphatic fluid is a little bit more superficial and makes like even lymphatic drainage, people are familiar.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not familiar, it's very light touch because it's more superficial.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: But something like the dura is much deeper.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I think I've I've seen one time somebody um uh show us the uh equiral needle size, which is like absolutely insane.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's extremely deep.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: That that needle is like very long, it's wild.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so for people who are like, what how could you palpate or how could you sense with your fingertips something that's so deep that has so many other like layers of superficial noise and disturbance?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's true.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: There are a couple of places um in the body along this um where you can actually sense the dura.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And one is at the Atlanta occipital area here where there's no bone covering, and you can actually touch into um very close to the spinal cord.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then it requires a certain amount of settling and really listening for that.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not listening to the venous drainage, I'm not listening to the aortic pumping.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I settle in and I listen for the actual um cerebrospinal fluid, which is the fluid that is created in the cerebrum and is washes down throughout the entire dura to protect the spinal cord, the brain and the spinal cord.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: There is another place um near the coccyx, near the tailbone, where the umra is just behind the bone.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: And through practice and training, through experience, I can sense through my fingers, I can tap into the rhythm of the dura, of the, not of the dura, but of the cerebrospinal fluid that is flowing through the dura.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And once you've sensed this, do you sense when some how how do you differentiate?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: What are you thinking if something is quote unquote normal or abnormal?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And what are you doing about that?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um another analogy would be so that it a normal, healthy um flow of cerebrospinal fluid is going to be um consistently rhythmic.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: The pulse will be just like our our pulse in the blood tends to be rhythmic, our heart rate is rhythmic.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: The pulse is an even five to eight seconds.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um it shouldn't, it shouldn't skip, it shouldn't, just like the heart, it should be very regular.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what I'm evaluating is is it um even on both sides of the spinal cord?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: One side may feel very strong and flowing, and another side might feel like um there's less fluid in there.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe it's a little bit jumpier, skip like record skipping.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I once I've I if there is, in fact, some congestion in the system, I will usually I'll spend time at those two places to help the body, the nervous system settle and the tissues relax and adjust so that um at the with time and release, those disturbances or those obstructions will clear.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm often drawn also to, let's say, you know, in there, I'm drawn to the fact that there's a um a tension, let's say, under the left scapula, so under the left shoulder blade.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I can feel that it's kind of pulling the body in a certain way.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's, you know, causing a certain amount of compensation.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I will get in then, maybe after working with the spine.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is again the, you know, you're lying on your back on the table.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: I will go in under the left scapula with my hands, and I'll identify where that point, that origin of the tension is, and I will give it a little bit of traction and a little bit of feedback, um, at which point the tissues, the muscles around that area tend to sink down and relax.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'll go back and check again afterwards to see have we cleared the river of the debris?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Is it flowing smoothly?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And if it is, then I can move on.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Another question for you is I know you already kind of compared to acupuncture in terms of pulse checking and um just understanding rhythms of the body.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm curious of are there specific areas that you're applying certain kinds of pressures based on certain kinds of rhythms similar to acupressure that is within Chinese medicine?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Or is there no correlation at all?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Let me answer you by saying that different areas of the body, different systems of the body, um want to merit different types of touch to explain the bones which have marrow and fluid in the center of them, right?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: They're not completely, they're not concrete.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Bones are living, generating factories of life.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um they require a touch or invite a touch that is more solid and stable.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, whereas if I sense that there is inflammation in the liver or the kidneys, I'm going to be holding that with a much gentler, softer touch.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: In many ways, what I'm doing with my hands is meeting the organ, meeting the bone, meeting the blood, kind of meeting it where it is with the energy that it is.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the ways we're trained to do that is to um go into that system in ourselves and then resonate with the client with that system.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that, you know, in a sense, so if I'm going, for instance, there are problems with the bones, and this is not uncommon with children.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, also people who come in with prior, you know, having been in accidents, for instance, and there's a, you know, um, let's say there's been a fracture in the tibia or fibula, or, you know, god forbid the the femur, can go in with through through sensing in my bones, my tactile sense of that allows me to give a more precise touch to allow that the the bone cells to actually reorganize, um, maybe drop some of the holding that they have.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so coming back to the acupressure, because of course I'm not trained in craniosacral therapy or in Chinese medicine.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Are there um, are you alluding to the fact that there's differences in your type of pressure that's different and the locations that are different?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and I I will say, you know, strictly speaking, from a like a cranial protocol, and there are quite a few protocols that we use, for instance, for headaches or TMJ, um, there it is likely that I would apply more pressure, more than the five grams that that we always talk about, that light pressure.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but where instead of being more receptive in my touch, I would be more uh proactive in my touch and um would be giving more direct feedback into say the that soft spot below the cranium or up here at the temples or here, you know, in front of the ears or behind the ears for TMJ.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so coming back to also the what patients can expect, right?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: You said they're clothed and on the table, it's about 60 minutes part of the session.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, correct me if I'm wrong, is that assessment of checking of the rhythms and different areas of the body, and then you spend the majority of the time after that with your corrections and your reassessments.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Does I did I get that right?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, although I wouldn't call it a correction.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's uh observe, evaluate, facilitate.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Observe, evaluate, facilitate.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: I like it.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, what can people expect in terms of coming back for sessions?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm assuming like all therapies, including physical therapy, it is not a one and done.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: You don't come in and then a voila, everything is fixed and you never have to see me again.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: I've only probably done that once or twice.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it was for very specific situations.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: But magic.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Magic, yes.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: But most of the time it is not magic.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: So can you um maybe speak to the continuum of care and what that looks like for in your practice specifically with your patients, especially the older children and adults that you work with?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I love that question.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: So with infants, newborns, it's often one and done.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that is, you know, it helps to understand that the reason for that is because newborns and very young children just don't have the kinds of patterns and habits, movement habits, et cetera, thinking habits, all of it that we have as adults.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very easy and fast for them to shift back to something which is kind of their original template.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, with the older we get, the, you know, it's it's no joke, like the more set in our ways we become, you know, but to translate that into like our bodies, um, you know, if if we've had um, I don't know, let's say a frozen shoulder for, you know, five years, it doesn't disappear in one session.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: It might, it might, it most likely will feel better after one session.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in fact, my own experience having had uh a bicycle accident and um you know an injured knee, and that's I was with a PT for a while, and my PT brought in craniosacral therapy.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I'm I just just to say she brought in craniosacral therapy, which left, which not only accelerated the healing of my knee, but I felt better overall.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't just my knee.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so when when patients come to me, I'm working with someone, for instance, right now who had jaw surgery, um, is a chronic sufferer of um EDS, Aylardano syndrome, so hypermobility, and you know, all there are so many things that go along with that, sorgh's um syndrome, etc.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um generally speaking, I I like to tell clients, you know, the first time out, you're going to see um results that last maybe one, two, three days, depending on severity and depending on like how well the first session goes, because it really requires when you're working with the nervous system, it requires trust.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um the the patient, it's so many of us have been subjected to um physical trauma over the course of our lives, whether witnesses of violence or receivers of violence, and our bodies record that and are don't always feel safe first time out in a treatment session.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it may take one session for some people to just get comfortable and to begin to let the, you know, let the systems open up and receive the receive the treatment.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um but usually most uh injuries, let's say, can be helped within, I would say the you know, first, then the second, the the results last longer.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: The third, um, you expect the results to last about a week.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and usually after about six to eight sessions, my patients can move over to like start doing sort of once a month, um, and eventually to once a quarter, or a lot of the people I see come back once a year for a tune-up, or when there's a major life transition or an injury.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm moving, I'm changing jobs, um, divorce, it's the different things that happen that can really cause the system to just cause us to feel off kilter, not quite ourselves.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then, but once you've been through it and you've developed.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: That relationship, it doesn't take that initial time to, you know, to build up the relationship.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it um the results are much more immediate.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds so energetic to me because I think so often we speak just to the tissue changes and the anatomy.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think so much of what you're also talking to at the end here is that um patient-client relationship and how that matters so much and what we do in all of our practices that are so patient-facing.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we're working very holistically with the whole system.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it doesn't just involve the muscles and the bones.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that you touched on all of that.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I mean, I just want to, you know, give a shout out.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: I this information, you know, and this this the importance of relationship really became clear to me during my studies of maternal infant health.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: All of the research that is now very, you know, solid behind it, but the interpersonal neurobiology that's established that shows demonstrably through EKGs and EEGs, lots of biomechanical markers, that nonverbal communication at the earliest levels is an indicator of how well a child will do health-wise, social emotionally, the uh strength of the attachment bond.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: These things are established not through words.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, touch is a big part of it, voice and sound is part of it, but it's not cerebral.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: It has to do with in the interpersonal neurobiology, our nervous systems attuning to each other and working in tandem.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's so, so, so important that people think about this.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: We live in a very busy world in New York City, and we have all different kinds of parenting styles and all different kinds of parent-child relationships.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: And especially with the families that I work with, um, you know, there's a lot of mom guilt, parent guilt around connection and time.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really hard to juggle all of the things in this very busy world, and especially in a place like where we are right now.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I I'm I'm curious to hear the advice or the support that you give when people come to you with this topic or conversation.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the one thing that I say, and I have experienced this as I became a mother as well three years ago, was you have to make the time that you're with your child count more than anything.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it is the focus and it's the attention, and it is just the connection that you build, and it's more of like a feeling.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like even if you are multitasking and even if you have to do other things because it's just what needs to happen often, there is this level of focus, care, and connection that you can build into moments.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that sticks with your child more than anything.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And they actually don't remember when you didn't make them a three-course meal with the balanced whatever it was.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: They don't remember if they got, you know, thrown this extremely extravagant birthday party or whatever the case is that we often stress so much.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, what matters the most is that one-on-one focused attention that that really only a pro a parent caregiver can provide to the child, and that clinicians and healthcare providers, when they're working with infants and babies especially, they can provide in a different capacity.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: But when we actually have the parent doing that, it the level of energy that flows in that bond releases the beautiful cocktail of hormones that we really need to heal and do all the anti-inflammatory markers.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Then we can go into the physiology, but I don't know how you how you speak to your patients and families.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: I I just love this topic.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean, uh yeah, I mean, children are are so special.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, it is that, you know, that when children are when babies are born and throughout that especially nonverbal, pre-verbal stage, their primary need is not for food, it's for a feeling of safety and comfort.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: So even if you are multitasking, the fact that you're holding the baby and you're aware of it and you're talking and you know, you're moving with the baby, why baby wearing is also kind of a buzzword right now.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's creating that bond, that that connection heart to heart.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: I like to, you know, like heart to heart.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Skin to skin is great too, but it's really that boom-boom, boom, boom, like a sense of being held and contained.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: That is what gives a child later on the ability to have like a, you know, good attachments now, be able to, you know, I can't go do things as a and as a child, I won't go off and explore, I won't be curious, I won't exercise my cognitive development if I don't feel safe.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: I need to know that mom or or auntie or whoever it is, you know, the community of caregiving, um, you know, I need to know they're there and that they're gonna pick me up if I fall to be able to go out and do what I want to do.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and so uh there are two things I would say.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, I I am, I never pathologize any behaviors because all behavior is communication, whether it's the parent or the child, they're trying to tell you something.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um they're just trying to communicate something and they don't have the words for it or haven't fully processed if it's an adult.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the other thing I really want to say is that one of the reasons I became so drawn to why it became so important to for me to study, to go back and actually study maternal infant health, was because as a craniosacral therapist, mothers were bringing, well, they would come to me while pregnant, then they would bring me the baby.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: They I would treat a baby, and you've seen this in your practice too, I'm sure, and treat a baby for an hour a week.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's a drop in the ocean.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I realized that if I'm going to really have an impact, I need to have an impact on the family.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I need to hold and care for this dyad.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: And if mom needs to be, that's where the support really needs to be.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: And this comes from developmental psych too.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a baby doesn't exist by itself.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: A baby is basically, you know, contained within the caregiver's like sphere.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: So if the caregiver is not able to self-regulate, has too many stresses, feels guilty, can't just be okay, then that child, no matter one hour a week or two hours a week, it's never going to be enough.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: So my job is to is to ensure that the the mom, in most cases, sometimes it's the dad or the dad and the mom, that they have the supports they need to feel that they can take care of this child.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, focus their attention on it when it's the right time and you know, really create that connection.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it speaks volumes to just the history and the ancestry of what people used to do forever in terms of caregiving.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think like it's impossible to go back to that, but there is possibility to incorporate that for the well-being of the whole family.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's you put it beautifully, how in ways and small ways that you can um incorporate that bonding, that connection, that healing.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's all like physiological markers we have now like studied, you know, of what it does to cortisol levels and how that reduces inflammation and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: We can talk about, we can nerd out about that.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's the connection that we need to build.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: And whether it's through the caregiver or the healthcare provider, I think that's a big piece that I mean, if anyone who's listening right now who supports families, um I think more than all your technical skills, right?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's how much are you really, how are you communicating and how are you showing up in your own practice that matters more than did you go three centimeters this way or three centimeters that way at the end of the day, you know?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that that we just need to bring attention to that.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad that you spoke to it today here.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, a disclaimer, of course, the three centimeters one where if you have a scalpel in your hand, you definitely want precise.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yes.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: We we're not talking about scalpers.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, certainly the way I work is is um, you know, uh much more comprehensive and holistic.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and no, I mean, you know, there's there's no, you know, there's no danger from craniosacral therapy.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that's actually been proven time and time again that um while it's very hard to evaluate its um effectiveness or efficacy in terms of there are studies that have proven that it's very good for headaches.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, there's certain um certain types of things, very specific things that um heart rate variability, for instance, uh where craniosacral, there is actually a body of evidence growing um to show that it's effective.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: But um yeah, it's it's it's on the it's not on the side of um, you know, um doing like surgery or anything like that.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, of course.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Elise, this is wonderful.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have anything else to add to our conversation for listeners to understand this work and how what you do?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I guess if there's one thing I would like the listeners to take away, it's that you know, our our bodies are not broken.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: We're not, we it's not that we, you know, we tend to think that we need fixing.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and we tend to go to the outside to fix things.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: But um in my work, what I find is that um when people come in, uh they're the bodies are just adapting to whatever the environmental stressors are, the experience they've had, and the environmental stressors.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's so important to um, you know, to understand that and not to um diminish the incredible work that our bodies are actually already doing um to protect us, to, you know, uh allow us to cavort in, you know, on this planet, if you will.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and I I just I think that's probably the most important takeaway is yes, I love that.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if listeners want to get in touch with you or learn more about your work, what's the best way for them to do that?
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think my website is actually the best single source of information about me, and that is my full name, elise depaola.com.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there you'll find um you're able you'll find information about my background in training, my philosophy, um, the different services I offer because I'm also an infant developmental movement educator.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I work with families to support infant development.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and there's that's also where my um where my newsletter is actually there's a library of reflections and uh information, and where you can subscribe if you want to receive my monthly newsletter.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'll add all of that in the show notes for listeners.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for your wisdom and your time.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: It is so lovely to have you be here with us today and share your work and how it impacts families so profoundly.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for what you do, Snaya.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you all for tuning in and investing in yourself and your well-being.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: If you listened to the show today and gained anything out of it, share it, summer, and why.
• 34:54
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• 34:57
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• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: See you again next week with an exciting new guest and topic.