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Jealous much? · Stuff You Should Know

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  Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
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  Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know
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  Speaker 1: from house Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to
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  Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me as always is
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  Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bryant, who better not be podcasting with
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  Speaker 1: anybody else behind my back? Are you You didn't hear
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  Speaker 1: about the Chuck and Chuck show? Who's the other Chuck?
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  Speaker 1: It's me? You're doing it with yourself, yes, but I
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  Speaker 1: do your voice as me. That's fine. It's sort of weird.
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  Speaker 1: It's just obsessive, like theater acting, sort of fantasy league thing.
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  Speaker 1: Am I the the dummy in it? Like? Are you
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  Speaker 1: just I'm Josso. Yeah, I figured I figured you did
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  Speaker 1: that in your underwear in the mirror every mornings. It's
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  Speaker 1: really good and the numbers like we're rivaling our own
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  Speaker 1: show now open people love it. I'm surprised that hasn't
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  Speaker 1: overtaken it yet. Wait, it's that one. Oh I didn't
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  Speaker 1: know that was you? What. There's probably people out there like,
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  Speaker 1: oh my god, I gotta hear this. Let's get to
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  Speaker 1: it showing enough of this riff raff crap enough, Okay, Chuck,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: You're ready. October this month? Uh is National apple Jack Month,
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  Speaker 1: National pickle Peppers Month, National Breast Cancer Aware this month.
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  Speaker 1: Did you notice the Delta Stewards and Stewardesses pink everywhere?
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  Speaker 1: I love it. It's National Mental Illness Awareness Month, National Lesbian,
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  Speaker 1: Gay and Bisexual History Month. And just so happens that
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  Speaker 1: we're recording this on Pride weekend, which makes sense. Um,
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  Speaker 1: it is National country Ham Month. Really, there's a lot
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  Speaker 1: of October is a big month that kind of overshadows
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  Speaker 1: Breast Cancer Awareness Month, Country Ham. It depends on the
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  Speaker 1: country Ham. I would say, uh, And then I guess
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  Speaker 1: most apropos to this podcast, which I wasn't aware of,
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  Speaker 1: but I don't think you were either. Um, It's National
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  Speaker 1: Domestic Violence Awareness Month. Really, yes, And I say it's
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  Speaker 1: a propos of this podcast because this is a podcast
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  Speaker 1: on jealousy. Jealousy is one of the more widely recognized
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  Speaker 1: triggers of domestic violence. Did you know that? Did not?
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  Speaker 1: But it makes sense? Um. According to a two thousand
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  Speaker 1: three alone I study um in relationships that were domestically violent,
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  Speaker 1: it was male on woman domestic violence, and there is
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  Speaker 1: such thing as the other way around, um, women who
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  Speaker 1: were abused. As long as it was attended by jealousy,
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  Speaker 1: it was perceived by the battered woman as um less
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  Speaker 1: negative and that deserves but less negative than um non
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  Speaker 1: jealous violence. Interesting. Yeah, um, which is it's very interesting,
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  Speaker 1: and it's really weird because it kind of goes it
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  Speaker 1: speaks to our perception of jealousy. It's a it's a weird, undesirable,
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  Speaker 1: unflattering emotion. Um. And yet it also shows we care
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  Speaker 1: in certain ways. Right, Clearly, domestic violence is far far
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  Speaker 1: beyond any level of caring. But it's so it's it
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  Speaker 1: can even spill over that far the idea that jealousy
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  Speaker 1: equals caring, that it can it can reach violent levels.
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  Speaker 1: That is one of the more messed up things I've
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  Speaker 1: heard in a long time. And because as I can
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  Speaker 1: hear the scenario of well, he was just jealous because
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  Speaker 1: I was talking to that guy at the bar, which
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  Speaker 1: means he loves me, which is like, that's so messed up.
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  Speaker 1: It is very because I josh am of the belief.
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  Speaker 1: Before we get started, here's Chuck's oppinion rant. These are
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  Speaker 1: the two things that Chuck says about jealousy. This is
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  Speaker 1: not backed up in any scientific way. I believe that
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  Speaker 1: A there is no place in jealousy in any healthy relationship.
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  Speaker 1: In the article, it says like jealousy can be good
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  Speaker 1: as long as I don't agree B. Because of that,
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  Speaker 1: I think jealousy pops up when you when there are
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  Speaker 1: trust issues should never be trust issues. When there is
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  Speaker 1: an unhealthy dependence on one another should never be that.
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  Speaker 1: And when one or both of the parties is really
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  Speaker 1: really insecure with each other. I disagree. All right, then
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  Speaker 1: I don't disagree to like a polar opposite degree. Um,
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  Speaker 1: but I do think I did agree with the article
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  Speaker 1: where it says towards the end, the psychologist that was
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  Speaker 1: um interviewed for this article suggests that a certain degree
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  Speaker 1: of what's called normal jealousy is healthy. UM. I don't
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  Speaker 1: think it's possible to have a relationship that doesn't have
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  Speaker 1: some sort of trust issues you're looking at it. I
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  Speaker 1: have zero trust issues, zero jealousy, Emily, I've never had
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  Speaker 1: anything like that. That is fantastic for you. I am
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  Speaker 1: of the opinion, though, that jealousy in small measure to
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  Speaker 1: a certain degree is symptomatic of a healthy relationship. Really. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: all right, let's get into it. Okay, you're ready. What
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  Speaker 1: is jealousy Chuck? First of all, jealousy envy same thing.
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  Speaker 1: Uh No, not at all. They're in fact quite different
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  Speaker 1: because envy, Josh is when you want something that you
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  Speaker 1: do not have that someone else has, right, usually an
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  Speaker 1: object near or whatever. The job, jobs, an object is
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  Speaker 1: it if you write it down, if you draw a
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  Speaker 1: picture of your job, it becomes an object. Whereas jealousy
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  Speaker 1: is a fear of losing something that you have to
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  Speaker 1: someone else, like a job or an object. So you
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  Speaker 1: want something that somebody else has an envy and jealousy
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  Speaker 1: you already have something, but you fear losing it. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And like you know, relationships are usually where you talk
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  Speaker 1: about jealousy, So you basically fear that you're gonna lose
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  Speaker 1: your mate to the dude at the bar. And jealousy,
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  Speaker 1: Chuck is an emotion. So let's talk briefly about emotions.
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  Speaker 1: But they're um, primary emotions like fear, disgust, anger, joy, uh,
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  Speaker 1: and a couple others okay, um, And these are found
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  Speaker 1: in just about any animal with the brain, right, um.
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  Speaker 1: And then there's secondary emotions that are self conscious emotions
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  Speaker 1: that include jealousy, right, jealousy, shame, guilt, embarrassment, pride, um.
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  Speaker 1: You have to have a sense of yourself and awareness
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  Speaker 1: of yourself in relation to others to experience secondary emotions
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  Speaker 1: like jealousy, because jealousy, you can't be jealous of anything
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  Speaker 1: if there's not another person or another something. It takes
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  Speaker 1: two to be jealous, right. Yeah. And Ralph Hopka, he's
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  Speaker 1: a professor of psychology at cal State Long Beach heap
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  Speaker 1: I know, was interviewed for this article and he put
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  Speaker 1: it really succinctly. He said, jealousy is an anticipatory emotion.
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  Speaker 1: It seeks to prevent loss. That really sums it up
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  Speaker 1: right there. But it also makes jealousy really really unusual
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  Speaker 1: because think about it, like all relations or all um
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  Speaker 1: emotions are reactionary. Really, there's like a stimuli or stimulus
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  Speaker 1: and it you react to it. You feel fear because
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  Speaker 1: of it, you feel joy because of it. Jealousy is
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  Speaker 1: the prospect of of experiencing something, so that makes it
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  Speaker 1: an antecedent to other emotions like anger or fear, right
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  Speaker 1: it comes first. Yeah, Yeah, it's weird, it's unusual, and
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  Speaker 1: what our emotions chuck if not motivators, right, Fear motivates
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  Speaker 1: you to like move away from the man coming at
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  Speaker 1: you with a knife. Joy motivates you to like do
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  Speaker 1: that again or break out in song? Right, Uh, and
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  Speaker 1: then I guess jealousy motivates you to take measures to
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  Speaker 1: prevent that loss. Interesting. Yeah, all right, this is gonna
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  Speaker 1: be a fun one, alright, because rarely do we come
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  Speaker 1: at it from different angles. Uh. Since we're talking about
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  Speaker 1: m V, do you want to talk about your penis? Uh? Sure,
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  Speaker 1: that's one of my favorite things talking about Uh. Freud.
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  Speaker 1: Sigmund Freud, the psychoanalyst UM came up with the concept
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  Speaker 1: of penis envy and I had a general idea of
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  Speaker 1: what it was, and it wasn't very far off. But
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  Speaker 1: it wasn't until this article that I read what penis
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  Speaker 1: MV is. It is defined the psychoanalytic concept in which
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  Speaker 1: a female envyes male characteristics or capabilities, especially the possession
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  Speaker 1: of a penis. Right, Yeah, what's that gonna do with jealousy?
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  Speaker 1: It doesn't, but it is interesting and I didn't realize
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  Speaker 1: I didn't understand why this um was put into this either.
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  Speaker 1: This is one of the more feminist articles on the site. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I thought so. Um. But in in this little sidebar,
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  Speaker 1: penis envy? Um. Basically what Freud came up with was
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  Speaker 1: that all women want to be men, and all of
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  Speaker 1: their accomplishments and feats are the result of a sense
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  Speaker 1: of competition with men, or they're trying to make up
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  Speaker 1: for their shortcoming of lacking a penis interesting. Obviously this
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  Speaker 1: has been generally discarded, but pertinent to your your your
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  Speaker 1: question of what it has to do with jealousy. Nothing,
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  Speaker 1: because that's envy and we've already cleared the air between
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  Speaker 1: what's envy and what's jealousy. I just thought it was
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  Speaker 1: an interesting side it is. Can we talk about jealousy? Sure, Chuck, Uh.
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  Speaker 1: There are there have been studies. It's kind of a
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  Speaker 1: difficult thing to study, um, because you know, you want
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  Speaker 1: to study if gender has an even to do with it,
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  Speaker 1: if age has anything to do with it, if ethnicity
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  Speaker 1: has any to do with it. And it's hard for
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  Speaker 1: like age, because you'd have to interview someone at the
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  Speaker 1: age of fourteen as an adolescent, and then again in
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  Speaker 1: their thirties and then their fifties, and that's sort of
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  Speaker 1: a hard study to pull off. Yeah, the same person
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  Speaker 1: you'd have to interview. One of the reasons why it's
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  Speaker 1: so hard is because, well, it's a longitudinal study, but
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  Speaker 1: with jealousy specifically, it's so um contextual, culturally contextual that
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  Speaker 1: as the culture just expectations of what might make someone
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  Speaker 1: jealous change as well. Sure that was the reason at
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  Speaker 1: least given in this in this um, in this article,
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  Speaker 1: but other longitudinal studies have been carried out, and it
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  Speaker 1: could considerably be carried out, but apparently no one's done
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  Speaker 1: it on jealousy, right, Yeah, but there have been some
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  Speaker 1: really cool studies just about different aspects of jealousy and
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  Speaker 1: they have found some pretty cool water cooler things that
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  Speaker 1: you can wow your buddies tomorrow. And the cubicles. Um.
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  Speaker 1: Women they've always thought have showed jealousy a little more
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  Speaker 1: than men do. And we'll get into the emotional and
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  Speaker 1: sexual jealousy in a minute. But one study revealed that
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  Speaker 1: women when they're jealous tend to aim their ire more
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  Speaker 1: often at the rival, whereas the male will aim the
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  Speaker 1: ire at their partner a fisher. Interesting, yeah, great example
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  Speaker 1: of that's really great example, Um, what lies beneath fatal attraction?
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  Speaker 1: Glenn posts yeah, although she kind of came after the
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  Speaker 1: family wholesale energy. Yeah. And then there's always the lorrain
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  Speaker 1: of Bobbitts who just fly in the face of that,
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  Speaker 1: and and the woman who run who ran over her
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  Speaker 1: husband in Texas member with her daughter in the car. Right. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So I mean I'm gonna end up saying this, I
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  Speaker 1: might as well say it. I think it's all very personal,
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  Speaker 1: Like it's hard to do a sweeping study of jealousy
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  Speaker 1: and say people say this and people do this because
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  Speaker 1: everyone's different. Yeah, and this other um, this supplemental study
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  Speaker 1: from two I think that you came up with kind
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  Speaker 1: of underscores that it supports that idea, Chuck. I think
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  Speaker 1: jealousy is far more personal than it's been treated in
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  Speaker 1: the past as well. Um, for the most part, it
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  Speaker 1: was viewed as um, it was divided by gender, and
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  Speaker 1: there are there are studies that support that that women
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  Speaker 1: tend to be more jealous than men, right. Uh. And
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  Speaker 1: that's I guess you have to be very careful with
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  Speaker 1: your wardening there, because it's really easy to uh skew
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  Speaker 1: that idea the wrong way. It doesn't mean that women
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  Speaker 1: experience it's jealousy more than men. Necessarily. It just means
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  Speaker 1: that women display jealous characteristics more than men according to
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  Speaker 1: these studies. Well, yeah, and they say that one reason
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  Speaker 1: might be that they're not more jealous, they just are
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  Speaker 1: more open and honest with expressing that the men um.
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  Speaker 1: Since you brought that study though, it is pretty interesting.
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  Speaker 1: They there's long been the belief that, uh, men are
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  Speaker 1: more upset about sexual infidelity, women are more upset about
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  Speaker 1: emotional infidelity. Actually that is true, but they always thought
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  Speaker 1: that it was evolutionary in its basis because men, ah,
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  Speaker 1: and this is pretty interesting. There's no way to for
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  Speaker 1: men to have proven that they're the father of a child, right,
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  Speaker 1: So men were always very like guarded about sexual behavior. Well,
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  Speaker 1: they guard their mate because they my wife, my you know,
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  Speaker 1: Tuktok is pregnant, and I don't know if it was
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  Speaker 1: you know me, or if it was Ringo star over there.
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  Speaker 1: Oh that's from caveman, and I don't know if Tuktok was.
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  Speaker 1: But and women are more com admitted to raising a
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  Speaker 1: family and having a partner, so like an emotional betrayal
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  Speaker 1: would be you know, more devastating to them. But the
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  Speaker 1: scientist at a Penn State said, well, what about the
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  Speaker 1: fact that there's men who are really upset about emotional
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  Speaker 1: betrayal just like women are, Like, how do you explain that?
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  Speaker 1: And they did some studies and they found that it's
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  Speaker 1: not necessarily evolutionary and nature right, No, it's uh. What
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  Speaker 1: they came up with was that it was much more
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  Speaker 1: personal and specific. UM. Basically, what these two these two
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  Speaker 1: researchers hypothesized was that UM, men tend to be more
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  Speaker 1: sexually jealous and women tend to be more emotionally jealous
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  Speaker 1: or jealous over emotional betrayal and sexual betrayal. UM because
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  Speaker 1: men are more likely to detach from personal relationships as
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  Speaker 1: a defense mechanism. That was their hypothesis, And they carried
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  Speaker 1: out the study and they found that their hypothesis was
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  Speaker 1: really correct, that men who are detached from relationships, which
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  Speaker 1: they theorize as a defense mechanism, are more likely to
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  Speaker 1: report that they would be turned off or made jealous
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  Speaker 1: by a sexual betrayal than an emotional betrayal. But what
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  Speaker 1: they found and what I think they were trying to
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  Speaker 1: point out, was that their their hypothesis explains the why
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  Speaker 1: there's a population of men who are in securely committed
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  Speaker 1: relationships who consistently report that an emotional betrayal is way
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  Speaker 1: worse than a sexual betrayal. So it's they're saying, like,
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  Speaker 1: there are there there is a division of jealousy by gender.
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  Speaker 1: But here's why it's not because you know, men can't
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  Speaker 1: prove that that that's not their kid. That it's actually
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  Speaker 1: much more personal than that. Did you know that? Men?
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  Speaker 1: One of the most common reactions that a man has
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  Speaker 1: when they first find out that their wife is pregnant
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  Speaker 1: is whose is it? Even in committed like awesome marriages,
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  Speaker 1: It's like a very common psychological reaction to think like
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  Speaker 1: that can't be mine? What? Yeah, where did you read this?
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: I read it? That's it. I can't remember. Yeah, I
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  Speaker 1: did so many sights I want to rag on right now. Alright,
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  Speaker 1: chuck um Well quickly though about that study too. It
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  Speaker 1: also points out that the person's history has a lot
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  Speaker 1: to do with it, So right, it's a defense. Yeah, Like,
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  Speaker 1: I'm not a jealous person at all, like I said,
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  Speaker 1: and I have no trust issues, but if I had
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  Speaker 1: been cheated on a bunch of times, I might sure,
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  Speaker 1: and I throughout this podcast or I'm going to refer
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: to nameless friends of mine, And I do know this
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: one couple who the guy had a history of cheating
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: and the girl had a history of cheating. They hooked up,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: they got married, and they're both pretty jealous. Oh yeah,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: I mean it's and they've been mary happily married. It's
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: not like they're they're not a good couple, but they're
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  Speaker 1: both just inherently jealous because they're both cheaters. Right. It's
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: kind of goes back to that, um judge not less
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  Speaker 1: you be judged, or when you point a finger, there's
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  Speaker 1: three pointing back at you. The concept that actually encountered
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: the Yeah, the concept that if you have cheated, um,
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  Speaker 1: you are aware that people can do that to other peopure.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: And on the same coin, if you've been cheated on,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: you're acutely aware that that can happen. And I think
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  Speaker 1: both of those situations can lead to jealousy too. I
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  Speaker 1: think that's what that past state study was was saying that,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: like you said, it's much more personal than of evolutionary
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  Speaker 1: origin divided along gender. Right, Um, so, Chuck, let's let's um.
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  Speaker 1: There have been other studies too that are some are hokey,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: some deserve rim shots, some deserve sad hombones UM. But
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: apparently some studies have focused on jealousy as an individual
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  Speaker 1: um emotion, not necessarily needing another person that it um
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  Speaker 1: is or it originates in the self right. And one
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  Speaker 1: of the things that they found was men who are
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  Speaker 1: tall and women who are average height tend to be
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  Speaker 1: less jealous than um men who are short or women
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: who are shorter or taller. And basically the point is
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: is that they know everybody wants them well. And I
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  Speaker 1: think beyond that, it goes back to what I was saying.
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  Speaker 1: I think the root of a lot of jealousy lies
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: in the insecurities of a person. And you know, short
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: guys are often insecure. Okay, So if jealousy is an
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: insecurity we're breaking new ground here, are we. Yeah, it
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: sounds like it, Okay, Jealousy is an insecurity insecurity based emotion, right,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: I believe so, Yes, And what we're finding is that
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  Speaker 1: it can be It can originate from the self feelings
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  Speaker 1: of insecurity based on appearance, um, height, attributes, what have you,
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  Speaker 1: or it can be inflicted by another person e g.
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  Speaker 1: Cheating or being cheated on, or doing anything to break
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  Speaker 1: someone's trust right right, trust breaking dude, we get our
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  Speaker 1: pH ds today, Chuck, Yes, Uh, should we talk about
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: adolescent jealousy for a little bit, Yeah, adolescent jealousy, Josh
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  Speaker 1: is um kids are pretty jealous. Like, there's some of
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  Speaker 1: the more jealous creatures on earth. If you sit around
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  Speaker 1: and watch kids, there's two types. There's one that is
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  Speaker 1: inherently wants to share a lot and it's very kind
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: and giving. And there's one that doesn't want to share.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: They want what you've got, They want your Lincoln logs,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: they want to break your toys. And uh. Kids often
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: display this, and especially with siblings with sibling rivalry. But
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: they say rivalry whatever, and they say that's a really
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  Speaker 1: normal behavior though, and not to get too worked up
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  Speaker 1: about it as a parent, and to kind of stay
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  Speaker 1: out of it unless you know it gets violent and
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: let them figure it out on their own. But that
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  Speaker 1: that makes you wonder, like our kids more jealous or
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  Speaker 1: are they just more emotionally honest? Well, maybe have they?
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  Speaker 1: Have they not learned that you need to kind of
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: keep a lid on that kind of thing that or
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  Speaker 1: not emotionally mature. It depends on how you look at it.
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  Speaker 1: Jealous either way, is that right? Were you did you
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  Speaker 1: happen to be extremely lonely or extremely insecure. I think
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  Speaker 1: I was insecure in my high school relationship and that
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: made me really jealous. Oh yeah, yeah, okay, so check
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: that that's actually kind of normal to experience jealousy as
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: far as friendship, jealousy is an adolescent according to a
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: study that was produced in uh, well, not produced but
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: published instead in developmental psychology, right, and I basically found
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: that kids who are insecure or lonely, or experience insecurity
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: or extreme loneliness tend to um be jealous of friendships. Right,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: So when they get into a friendship, they are jealous
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: of their friends friends to the point where it can
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: erupt and physical aggressiveness or passive aggressiveness where they're, you know,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: ignoring their friend and their friend has no idea. Why. Yeah,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: that's basically another way to put it. It's high school. Yeah,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: like you know, and I was. I sort of became
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: friends with a popular crowd in about the tenth grade,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: and I never remember being jealous because I was just
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: so excited to be in the cool club. So I
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: was never jealous. I was just like, yeah, I like everybody,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: and everybody likes me, and it's all great, but it
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: was the girlfriend that I was jealous of, but I
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: had reason to be. I think I think it's pretty
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: normal too. I think high school is how do you?
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: How do you ever make it through there? Don't know.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I always feel so bad for kids that like take
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: their own lives in high school because it's just like
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: just just hung on a couple more years, you know,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: gets so much better. Believe me, Yeah, we can message
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: that out to our high school friends. If you're lonely
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: and depressed out there on so much better. High school
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: is really the anyone who who's high school was the
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: high point of their lives, they are the sad people
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: in your past eventually exactly. Um so chuck uh. The
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: that study I was talking about in developmental psychology, it
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: was pretty comprehensive. They interviewed ninth graders and asked them
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: about hypothetical situations and found, um, it was reinforced that
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: girls tend to be more jealous than guys. Um, which
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: is something that I think psychology is having a lot
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: of trouble like addressing because it's just such a m
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: It's a misogynist finding girls are jealous. It's so cliche.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: It's so the other word I'm trying to think of. Um,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: but it apparently is this open secret in psychological research
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: into jealousy, right, or again, like you're saying, or are
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: girls more emotionally Uh, what's the word? Um? Honest? Expressive? Honest? Yeah,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: but when it comes down to a study, there's no distinction. Yeah,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: that's true. I mean it's open displays of jealousy that
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: you're looking for, or at least honesty in whether or
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: not you'd be on jealous right. And I could see
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of high school boys not being in a
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: study like this, not wanting a cop to it. Yeah
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, Um, you're talking about types of jealousy.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: Adolescent jealousy is racked with sibling rivalry, right. Um, that's
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: just I was second fiddle to my um middle sister,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: like my whole Still to this day, I'm like the
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: baby of the family. I'm like, oh, you know, I'm
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: going to be on TV next week and everybody's just
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: like whatever, So, Mandy, how are the kids? Uh you
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: know about my my handsomer, thinner, smarter, older brother. Yeah,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: he and I correspond pretty regularly these days. He guys
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: writing each other, does that make you jealous? Does uh?
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: He he is was always better than at me school
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: and you know, better looking, and like I said, he's
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: in better shape. But we were I was never jealous
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: of him because my parents were always really good about
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: just they didn't you know, Scott was good at this
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: and you're you're good in other areas, and they were
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: good about building me up, and you're good at growing
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: facial hair. Yeah, exactly, Well, actually that is where I
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: beat him. Yeah, he's he's a little he's he can
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: grow a little goatee and a little stash, but he
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: struggles in the facial hair department. Good. Maybe he's jealous
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: of my facial I bet he is. He would never
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: admit a chuck, but he is okay take it from me,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: and he never rubbed it into That can make you jealous,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: I guess if he stuffs it in your face. But
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: we just always got along really great. Yeah. And you
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: were saying did your parents stay out of it? Um? Yeah,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: I mean they stayed out of fights when we had him,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: and they definitely didn't say, Well, look at Scott's report
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: card compared to yours. He got a's and you've got bees. Yeah, Well,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: who does that unless you're like a sadistic out there,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: that's crazy. Um. Yeah, my parents stayed out of mine
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: and my sister's relationship to UM, And apparently that's the right,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: that's the that's the way to UM single handedly pretty much,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: but that's apparently the way to go according to some
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: uh child psychologists, like stay out of it, let them
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: handle it themselves, because um, not only are they learning
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: how to, but you might also actually like one more
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: than the other. And then you come through loud and
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: clear to the one when you unconsciously side with the other, right, UM.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: So apparently let your kids as long as they're not
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: beating the tar out of each other, you're all right. Right.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: So that was a sibling rivalry, which is also called
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: family jealousy. UM. And then I imagine there's other types
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: of family jealousy to like, um, apparent one parent being
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: jealous of the other because they're getting all the attention
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: of the kids. But that exists, um. And then of
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: course there is well there's all sorts of complexes at
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: a pole electoral, just all sorts of crazy family dynamics
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: going on. I got older sister too. I never talked
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: about Michelle. I should mention that she's six years older,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: so there was no there was no jealousy between like
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: the sexes. We were all our own people. How how
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: how much older is your brother? It's three years in
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: six years, so three three and three romantic jealousy, Josh,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: you wanna talk about that? That's really the big one. Yes,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: this is the one where apparently everyone else on the planet,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: but you and Emily experienced this. I know plenty of
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: couples who aren't jealous of each other. Yeah really, yeah,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: is that news to you? Yeah, I've I've never ever
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: had a relationship that, like, didn't have some jealousy here.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: There wasn't a constant, it wasn't a thread, and it
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: wasn't debilitating by any means. Right, I've never I've never
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: been in a relationship that didn't have that didn't exhibit
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: some form of jealousy somehow. And I don't I don't
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: know that I would feel comfortable in one that doesn't.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I wonder if it's over sharing. But that's how that's how. Well,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: let me ask you this. You go to a party
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: with you me, you split up, and you see her
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: over at the beer keg because you know the keggers
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: were good to see at this age just talking to
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: some guy. Would you immediately feel jealousy or just think
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: she's just talking to some guy? Um? Honestly, UM, I
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: would say that in that situation because I trust her,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: I would assume that she's talking to some guy. But
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: I would eventually go over there if it like continued
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: or if she saw her talking later on or something
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: like that, And UM, it wouldn't be for her. I
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be trying to intervene toward her. It would be like, hey, guy,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: she's got a boyfriend kind of you know what I mean?
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: You want to go? I know her and I trust her, Um,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: and I don't know that guy, right, And I know
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: that I don't know the guy and the guy doesn't
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: know I exist or whatever, although knowing you me, he
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: does know I exist. So that just makes me more
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: app to go over and be like take a hike.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: For all you know, he could be dropping a roofy
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: in her in her That's exactly right, And this is
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: why I think that there is it is healthy to
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: experience some form of jealousy, because if I was totally
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: not jealous, I wouldn't have gone over there. I wouldn't
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: have cared, and you know, I would have had my
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: back to my girlfriend, which whatever, I don't think that's
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: a good thing. I guess that's me then no, No,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: But here's the thing, Chuck, I guarantee you. I guarantee you.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: We're going to get listener mail supporting your view and
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: supporting my view. I don't think there's a right or
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: wrong view. I think you should you know, when there's
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: an uncomfortable amount of jealousy in your relationship or a
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: bunch you know, you know, and if you're getting beat
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: up because your husband or boyfriend's jealous and you don't know,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: go get help because you that's too much. Well, you
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: may not know if you're really jealous, though, because a
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: lot of people might think, well, that's completely normal to
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: be abnormally jealous, right, Well, we're here to tell you.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: And again this applies to women beating up. Man. If
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: you're getting beat up by your significant other out of
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: jealousy for any reason, really, that's not okay. That's that's wrong.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Like no other people who also listen to this podcast
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: think that your relationship is wrong. Everybody out here thinks
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: that what's being done to you is wrong. It's a
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: good way to put it. Uh. They did find that
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: romantic jealousy is uh. Usually the first fight that a
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: couple will have is over some sort of romantic jealousy,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: whereas later on in life it's all about money, money,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: and if you're if you're lucky, it's about money. As
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: long as you're not fighting about trash, who takes who
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: takes the trash out, you're fine. Really. Yeah, the once
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: you start finding about the little stupid things, that's a
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: big problem, you think, so, and my experience, we should
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: start a relationship show people just like what we think
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: about things. All right, let's get back to the science,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: shall we. Uh. There is work jealousy, of course, and
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: that is a really ugly thing to have in the workplace.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: And that is obviously when people are buying for the
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: same jobs, are looking for the same promotion or the
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: same pay raise or the same whatever, and other people
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: are getting it and or a person gets that raise
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: over you, and it's just it's it's one of the
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: uglier types of jealousy that I've seen. It is And
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: you know, what I think is cute? What's that? And
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: this is how I feel about you? If I'm ever
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: jealous of you. It falls much more into the sibling
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: rivalry than work jealousy. I thought you're can Sara romantic.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: I was about say, thank god, thank god. So what
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: more sibling rivals than work? Yeah? Well that's because we're
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: we're peers, and we wish the best on each other.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Like occasionally we'll get individual opportunities, not often, but sometimes,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: like you write for HuffPo, occasionally. I didn't think you
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: cared about that. Well, no, that's what I'm saying. Well,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: that's what my point is is that we're real supportive
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: of each other's Like I wrote for Cosmo last week,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: you wrote for HuffPo. You wrote for Cosmo. I should
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: be jealous because HuffPo Cosmo. No, no, no, you wrote
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: for Cosmo. Yeah. You didn't tell me this, What are
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: you jealous? No? But I'm proud of you. You're supposed
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: to tell I was kind of like, you know, Cosmo,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: I wanted to know about stress, and that's awesome. It's
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: like being mad at your boyfriend gives you pimples and stuff.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: That's awesome. Chuck, not as heady as hufbo. Hey, Well regardless, Chuck,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: I'm proud of you, so you sent me that link
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: after this, Okay, well when it publishes it well, and
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: pride is a self conscious emotion. Uh. And then Josh,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: we've talked about this kind of off and on. But
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: abnormal jealously is I think what they called it many things,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: psychotic behavior, delusional, morbid. It's also referred to largely as
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: neurotic jealousy neurotic where it's a habitual, possibly unfounded or
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: at the very um detrimental to the relationship. Yeah, and
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: they said it could be uh for a lot of reasons.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Um insecurity of course, always back to that immaturity again
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: and being a control freak, which I thought was kind
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: of interesting. It can also be um the result like
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: we said, of having your trust broken, Chuck, or having
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: feel like the trust was broken even when it hasn't happened. Right.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: But I think if you've broken someone's trust, you know it,
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: like to a debilitating degree, you know it, right, And
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: there's actually a lot of help out there. Are you
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: people who if you've broken someone's trust and you don't
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: care to find out how to rebuild it, probably just
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: move along. But if you do care, then there's actual
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: like steps to rebuilding trust, and we actually did a
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: little digging around and found something right. That's right. So UM,
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: we found that I think anybody who says seven steps
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: to rebuilding trust in like ten minutes, it's not going
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: to happen. One of the things that we found in
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: our research was that if you're rebuilding trust broken trust,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: it's always going to take longer than you think it's
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: going to I would like triple what you think you
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: can't I I think even that would probably fall short.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: I think once you start thinking about how long it's
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: going to take, you've lost focus and you need to
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: refocus on rebuilding trust with the person. So the first
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: thing that you have to do is tell your partner,
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: whether it's your friend, your spouse, your UM, the love
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: of your life, your co host on your podcast, your workmate,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: whoever you broken trust with UM you you you want
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: them to know that you understand their feelings, that you're
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: wrong them right, and that you're sorry, and that you
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: feel totally cool with the fact that they hate you
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: right now and you're completely responsible. You have to own
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: that completely, I would think totally. Because some people break
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: trust and they kind of try and put it back
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: on you a little bit, which is a natural human emotion.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: I think to try and deflect blame, but it's always
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: better if you just keep it yourself. Well, you don't
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: want to heap it like you want. You want to
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: have a conversation, and yeah, you want to accept responsibility
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: for what you did. Some of the things you don't
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: want to do is withdraw, um, attack back like you
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: were saying, or offer excuses or explanations. You want to
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: do that and apologize, not attack back, but you want
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: to offer an explanation and apologize in reverse order. After
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: you've said, I understand that you're mad, and all of
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: this might not take place in like a ten or
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: fifteen minute conversation. This could take place over months, depending
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: on how badly you've hurt the other person. Right, Um,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: but yeah, after you have said I know I've hurt you,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: and I take responsibility. Um, you want to apologize. You
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: want to explain your point of view. Basically, you want
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: to say, this is why I did this, even if
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: it's as wrong as because I'm a selfish piece jerk.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: Selfish jerk. Um, that's an explanation, right, It's how the
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: person understand why it happened, which I think is a
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: big part of it. Right, Yeah, I would want I
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: would just recommend stopping short of trying to defend your
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: actions though, because there's a difference. Right. Right, You're not
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: saying it was right, you're saying why you did it.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Those two are separate, or why it's right is layered
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: on the explanation. Right. And you want to make promises,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: Actually you want to go out of your way to
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: make promises. You you don't want to say I make
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: no promises. This changes our relationship. You can't expect anything
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: from me. You make promises by saying this is you
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: know what you can expect of me in the future,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: and it can be Um. One of the examples that
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: was used in this was, um, if you if you
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: lie to your wife so you can go play golf
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: with your buddies on a Saturday morning, which is wow. Um,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: you want to promise to spend you know, every Saturday
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: for the next two months with your family, or you
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: could just a little maybe, or you could go to
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: your wife to begin with and say, hey, I'm gonna
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: play golf on Saturday, right, or even can I depending
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: on your relationship, but yeah, lying to your wife to
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: go play golf with your buddies. It's like a Bob
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Hope short from the fifties or Kevin James sitcom. Have
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: you got anything else on trust there? Um? Well, yeah,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: you want to make promises. One of the things you
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: want to do is not over exert yourself with promises.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: You don't want to make fantastic promises because the worst
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: thing you can do is not follow through on your promises,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: and you just broken trust again, right, And you also
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: want to make promises that are not just agreeable to
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: the person that you have who's trust you broken, but
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: to yourself as well, because if you're like, well, for
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: the love of God, I'm like, you know, I've lied
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: about playing golf with my buddies and now I have
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: to go get some moon dust because I promised I would.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: You're gonna probably resent your partner. So you want to
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: come to a consensus about what's okay. Um, And then,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: like we said, you want to keep promises, and then
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: you want to kind of discuss how things are going. Um.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of steps to this, but again the
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: rule of them is, um, apologize or say you understand
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: why their feelings are hurt, and take responsibility apologize, explain,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: make promises, follow through on the promises, and just keep
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: an open dialogue. Try to hustle the other person. Yeah,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: if you're a male right now and you're thinking all
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: those steps come on, that's called being in a relationship,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: right and it does take a lot of work in
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: a lot of steps, and it does if you're gonna
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: be in a happy one, dude, that's what you gotta do.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: And you will know when it's worth it. Oh, sure
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: you'll know or when to cut bait, So chuck, I
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: guess that's it. Oh well, no, no, we got I
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: got a few more things. We never finished on. Abnormal
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: jealousy actually, uh, because there's a switch that happens sometimes
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: between normal jealousy that leads to abnormal and dr Hoopka
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: says it's not always easy to spot and define when
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: that happens, but you should be aware of it if
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: you're in a relationship because it can't get really bad.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: You know if when they throw acid on you, or hey,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: someone to throw acid on you. Did that happen? Yeah,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: there was a picture in the article. Yeah, really weird. Uh.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: He says that a few things you can look for though,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: if for abnormal jealousy is if, like, you go out
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: or something, you're given permission, or you just go out
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: with your friends and your mate is always calling to
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: check in on you. That's something that you should look for.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Or if they're going through your telephone book or your
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: like text or your address book, that's probably abnormal jealousy too.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: It is. And I have other unnamed people I know
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: it's a friend of mine. Who oh sure, the wife says,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: you can go out with your friends. Oh, no problem,
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: I'm so cool. It's so cool. And then they get
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: out in the whole entire timet texts in a couple
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: of hours to the point where we just go why
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: you even bother coming out? Man? That's supportive, that's supportive.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: What should I say? That's awesome? No, but I mean, like,
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: why you even bother coming out? That's kind of I mean,
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I can't wait to meet your unnamed friends,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: like you're unnamed friend number two. I don't think they
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: listen to the podcast. They don't know, so I feel
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: pretty comfortable. Uh. And then one more two more things green, Yeah,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: the ancient Greeks, right, that's what did you recognize that?
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: What do you mean recognize it turning green? Um because
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: of bile. Remember the four humors we talked about happiness
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: audiobook that's hitt hint. Yeah, uh yeah. They think that
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: came from a build up of bile when you're jealous
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: or envious and would actually turn your skin greeny. Yellow
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: bible will turn your skin green. I think I think
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: it would be green bile. Yeah, there's a but well
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: there isn't. There's yellow bile, black bile, blood, and flagm
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: were the four humors. I like black bile. We're we're
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: both black bile and a little bit of a blood.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: We're both sanguine and melancholy. And can we talk about
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: animals real quick? Uh? Animals actually show jealousy, forms of jealousy.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: They don't know, they don't chuck this if you read this.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: A sense of fairness does not indicate jealousy. And what's more,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: the the animals may have envied the other animals treat
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences did a
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: study where they tested dogs to give them treats when
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: they would shake, you know, as a reward. Yeah, And
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: they saw that if another dog was getting a you know,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: a treat a piece of food afterwards, the other what
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: wasn't that the dog that wasn't would eventually, after a
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: couple of times, would be like, I'm not shaking right
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: until I get some uh some food. And they tested
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: that in monkeys, and they found that the monkeys got
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: jealous over the kind of treat, even jealous. The ones
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: that got a cucumber were like, at first, oh, this
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: is great, I get a cucumber for a treat, And
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: then they noticed that their buddy was getting a grape,
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: which tastes a lot better I cast to a monkey.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: And the monkeys would actually just stop performing because they
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: didn't get a treat as good as the other monkey.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: You know, it's weird. That came up when we were
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: doing research for our super Stuff Guide to the Economy
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: audio book. Oh that's right, I knew that sounded yeah, familiar.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: It was that your key's at the emery down the street. Um. See,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: the thing is, Chuck is that's a sense of fairness.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: It's not the same thing as jealousy. And I don't
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: think that the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: has got it wrong. I think MPR did because sometimes
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: MPR and gets things wrong much has it pained me
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: to say it five times per podcast? We get something wrong?
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: So for podcasts for podcast uh, you know, you might
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: say jealous, Some say elephants get jealous. Elephants can remember.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: It's hard to tell with animals because you can't ask well. Currently,
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: the prevailing scientific way of looking at it is animals
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: don't have a sense of self enough to have to
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: experience secondary emotions like jealousy or shame or embarrassment. You
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: have to have a conscious sense of self. I think
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: animals do. But science is like, we'll prove it, and
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: we haven't figured out how to prove it yet. So
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: that's where we're standing. You ready, I see you've got
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: a fine piece of listener mail right there. Yeah. Do
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: you have anything else? Nope. So if you want to
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: learn more about jealousy, trust all that kind of stuff,
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: you can type jealousy or trust into the swing and
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: search bar at how Stuff works dot Com. Since I
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: said that, I think now nowadays it's time for listener man.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: It is Josh. I'm gonna call this just one of
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: many polygamy emails. We got it blew up, it really did.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: We got something from we got one from lou Bega.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Did you see you know? We got two emails from
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: lou Bega. And I wrote him back the first time
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: because he said, Hey, guys, I'm not pumping gas. I'm
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: I'm slicing meat at a deli, just so you know.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: And I wrote him back and said slice at then
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: lou And then he wrote back again and said about
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: the Mormon one of the Polygamy podcast, Yes he was.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: He was defining. Do you think I'm kind of leaning
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: toward it, dude. I wrote him back today and said, listen,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: if this is the real loup Ega of hit song fame,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: they'n I'm gonna need photographic of it. That's what I
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: was thinking too, But I didn't have time to email him,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: So I'm glad you didn't want a picture of blue Bega.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: You'd see see me on these That kind of makes
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: me jealous that I don't see see you on fanmail
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: when it's lou Bega. It depends on who it is. Okay,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: we'll see seeing me on the rest, but especially if
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: you send in photo of it. What's funny is he's
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: going to send a picture himself. You're gonna be like, wait,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: what the hell, little lou Big it look like now
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: I remember, he looks like what if he doesn't wear
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: po door? I wonder in the Delhi if he's like
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: a little bit of turkey, a little bit of pumper nickel. No,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: some rye, oh dear. So this one, like I said,
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: we heard from a lot of um people from the
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. A lot
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: of people said, it's really great, you got it right.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: A lot of people said he got it all wrong,
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: or they said we didn't distinguish that enough. I disagree.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: I think we said quite plainly that that most Mormons
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: don't do this, and that this is the fundamentalist Mormon,
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: and like with a capital at fundamentalist Mormons. Well, and
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: a distinction between the Church of Latter day Saints and Mornerism. Right,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: maybe that's what the distinction wants. Maybe we'll have a
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: whole another bath. This is from Susan. Hey, guys, have
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: said it before, I'll say it again. You guys are awesome.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: I just had a few clarifications about the Mormons concerning
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: their practice of polygamy in your recent podcasts. I myself
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Latter day Saints and a history buff on this topic
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: because a few of my ancestors were early members who
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: practice polygamy. Polygamy was not a blanket requirement for being
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: a good member of the Church of Jesus Christ of
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: Latter day Saints. It was only practiced by a small
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: portion of the membership of the church, and was only
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: done so at the discretion of the president of the church.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: You couldn't just decide to do it yourself unless you
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: wanted to be excommunicated and or seriously disciplined. Uh. Those
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: men who were asked to practice polygamy were mostly leaders
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: of the church, and all parties were willing and gave
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: their consent to the marriages. You mentioned that after the
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: church stopped practicing give me, they promised to excommunicate any
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: who continue to do so. But even when they advocated
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: the practice, it was selectively practiced among the leaders of
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: the church. I have to say, in this day and age,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: I would be hard pressed to find a good reason
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: to practice polygamy, at least in the Western world. Back
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: in the pioneer times of wagons and gas lamps, I
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: could see some benefits. My great great great great grandmother
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: who was a second wife. Uh said that not second
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: wife is in second of two active wives. I think
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: that's what she means that in a lonely, dreary, dangerous
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: part of the wilderness that she and the first wife
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: settled with their children and husband, it was comforting to
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: have a close friend and neighbor who she knew would
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: help them any moment for any reason, and there were
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: no other neighbors around for hundreds of miles back in
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: the day. As a member of LDS Faith, I appreciate
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: your respect in discussing the issues that are close to
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: my heart and in accurately representing facts that are so
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: often misreported and misconstrued. If you guys decided to do
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: a podcast on the LDS, I would recommend you visit
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: the church's official websites and access material there for clarification
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: of practices and beliefs. So uh, and she said, I'll
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: give you any help you need to, because I got
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: the nine one one nice before one one nice. That's
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: Susan B. Thanks Susan B. That was very kind of
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: you to take the time to write in and to
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: say we cheated it respectfully. We thought we did as
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: opposed to some people who did not think we did.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: We tried to totally aside from the Swinger intro anyway, UM,
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: thank you very much for that, Susan, and everybody who
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: wrote in with their opinion one way or the other.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: That's very cool, Um, and thanks for the bit of
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: history and research Susan. We always appreciate that if you
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: have a story about your best country hand month, we
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: want to hear about it. Wrap it up in a podcast. No,
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: wrap it up in an email, right? Or I guess
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: you could record a podcast on it and then email
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: that to us. He could do, or a link, uh
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: and send it to Chuck in Jerry and Me at
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: stuff podcast at how stuff works dot com. For more
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: works dot com. Want more how stuff works, check out
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: our blogs on the house stuff works dot com home page.
• 46:22
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• 46:27
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