Latest / The Breakfast Club / Best Of Full Interview: Sarah Jakes Roberts Talks 'Power Moves,' Early Motherhood, Removing Wig During Preach, Church +More

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Best Of Full Interview: Sarah Jakes Roberts Talks 'Power Moves,' Early Motherhood, Removing Wig During Preach, Church +More · The Breakfast Club

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club Morning.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Everybody's theej Envy, Jess, Hilarry, Chlamine, the God. We are
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Come on now, we have Sarah Jake Roberts.
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: Welcome, Thank you.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: How are you feeling.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: I feel good. I'm a little tired, but I'm glad
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: to be here.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, you always dressed in nice you.
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: Got a starlist, I do, okay.
• 0:23
  Speaker 4: Jason Bowling, Yeah, we've been working together for almost ten years.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Okay. I thought you was just praying and putting it
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: together yourself.
• 0:32
  Speaker 5: But the new book, Power Moves ignite your confidence and
• 0:35
  Speaker 5: become a force.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Where did the inspiration for the book come from?
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: It really started about five years ago.
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: Whenever I had finished speaking, people would always tell me like,
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: that was so powerful, You're so powerful. But I didn't
• 0:45
  Speaker 4: really feel powerful, like I'd be in the fight of
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: my life up there. And I started just asking God,
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: like what does it mean to truly be powerful? And
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: I feel like God just revealed to me that it
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: has so much to do with obedience and authenticity, but
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: not only that, that power is a flow and so
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: what makes me powerful when I'm preaching is different than
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: what makes me.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: Powerful as a mother.
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: So I started digging into the fluidity of power and
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: this notion that power moves and embracing that from season
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: to season really started resonating with me.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I saw you preaching yesterday and you said something to
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: the extent of being in control is not power. Control
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: is not power. Yeah, what does that mean?
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: Okay, So whenever we lose our sense of safety, I
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: think our initial response is to try and control as
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: much as we can after that, instead of really surrendering
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: to whatever the moment is trying to teach us and
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: discovering the power, the wisdom, the lessons, and that we
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: control it. And as a result of that, we end
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: up closing ourselves out, not just from whatever God's trying
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: to teach us in the moment, but sometimes dynamic relationships
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: that can be helpful to us. And so balancing this
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: idea of vulnerability and openness so that power can flow
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: through us I think should be the goal of anyone
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: who really wants to affect change in the world.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: I do have a coquesse. This is going to sound stupid,
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: but I just want people to understand, you know, where
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: you came from and how you got into faith. I
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: know you were here last time. So for people that
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: said it, so for people that don't know that, they
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: automatically assume that your dad was in it is into religion,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: that's what got you into it. But you had a
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: different start with you. So let's talk about that a
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: little bit first. How did you start and how did
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: you get to where you're at now? And the fact
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: that you had your first child at fourteen and let's
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: let's break that all down.
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: And he's in the studio. Don't give him that much gas.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: That's a child over there. Yeah.
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: So my dad has been in ministry my whole life
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: and growing up when I was growing up in church,
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: like we were at church every single day of the week,
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: and you either found this spot, you were in the choir,
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: you were dancing, you were doing something, or you were
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: like me and you were sitting in the corner somewhere.
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: And I can remember my siblings telling me, like, you're
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: gonna go to hell, like you can shout, you can't clap,
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: like you gonna go to hell. And I was like,
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: you might be right, because what I'm listening to on
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: the radio likes resonating with me, it doesn't align with
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: what's being preached, and so I never really felt like
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: I had a sense of belonging within faith. And then
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: when my father's ministry kind of took off, I didn't
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: know where I fit within the dynamic of our family
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: at all. And so I tried to find myself at
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: thirteen year old, trying to find herself is gonna be
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: open to anything, and so I got pregnant at thirteen.
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: I had my son at fourteen, which just further confirmed
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: to me, like, you not wanted the good girls. And
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: so I spent probably ten years of my life just
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: being like, all right, faith isn't for me, guys, not
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: for me. I'm gonna figure out what's happening outside. And
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: I got to this space after this traumatic experience in
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: my first marriage where I almost got arrested and I
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: was defending the right to keep my kids, and I
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: was like, I have tried literally everything, I might as
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: well just try faith. And I wasn't trying to build
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: a platform. I was trying to build myself. And I
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: started blogging about all of my experiences, and it turns
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: out that there were like other women who felt maybe
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: forgotten by church, felt like because they didn't.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Do you feel that way, like, especially because your dad
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: was in ministry, did you feel like his church forgot
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: about you, especially that being your dad.
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: And it's hard, like knowing what I know now, it's
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: hard to say because I felt so much shame from
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: having a teen pregnancy that I'm sure that there were
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: people who were like still loving on me, but I
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: couldn't cut through the idea of like during purity culture,
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: the height of purity culture, you didn't got pregnant like this.
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: It just doesn't align. And I don't know because even
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: my father is surprised that my life has turned in
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: this direction. So I'm not sure if anyone thought that
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: I was going to be the girl talking about Jesus.
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: But I tried it for myself and I started sharing
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: it with like these other misfits, and it turns out
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: there were a lot of us, like back Row churchgoers
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: who were there because we had to be but didn't
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: fit in. And I was able to give them a
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  Speaker 4: voice and a language through trying to find my own
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: voice and language, and it's resonated with them.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: What level of ratchet were you on a scale?
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: It like, well, well, at the end of the day,
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: the day's got to end. I don't know, I don't
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: I don't even know how to answer that question. But
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: I mean I was not I was not outside, like
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: I was not trying.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: To be the good girl at all.
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: Like I embraced this idea of like, you can just
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: do your own thing and try anything. So I mean
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: I did quite a few things.
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: It's interesting to hear you say the bishop was surprised
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: to see how things turned out, because I'm sure him
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: and you know, the first Lady was.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Praying over you and asking God to turn you around.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: It would makes sense.
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, But I mean I have always been very strong willed.
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: I've always been my own person, and so I think
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: that they were praying. But just like we praying, we like,
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: I don't know if you're gonna answer this prayer. We'll
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: see how it happens. I don't think that they were
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: for sure knowing that things were absolutely going to turn around.
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: Even if they did turn around, I don't think anyone anticipates, like, oh,
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: she's going to be in ministry, because that's not necessarily
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: a turn around, like maybe she'll figure out who God is.
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: But this fact that she's also going to be a
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: ministry in helping others. That was a wild card nobody
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: saw coming.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: I do have a question, and this is something that
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: we talk about a lot of pearing. Me and my
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: wife been arguing about this, well now argument having a
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: conversation about this. I feel sometimes when, especially when people
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: play with the church right, and I'll tell you why
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: I say play with the church, they come off like
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: a very church holier than that.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: So when they speak, a lot of people actually believe
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: it and listen because they feel like they study, they
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: go through it, they read the Bible, et cetera, et cetera,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: et cetera. But also you realize that person is not
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: a good person. So where do you cross the lines
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: of somebody I would say, taking on an assignment doing
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: something positive. I think you spoke about it earlier, somebody
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  Speaker 2: giving a message opposed to who they are as a person.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Like can somebody give a message and be an fed
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: up person?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean a broken clock? It's right twice today,
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean?
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  Speaker 4: You don't even have to be a Christian to say
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: something that could be profound and deep, But that doesn't
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: change the fact that you have an opportunity to be
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: more fully integrated in your character. But I think that
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: the message is that resonate the most are from people
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: who are literally walking it out, living it out, and
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: so it does discredit the message sometimes when you're telling
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: me something that you don't live by. But I think
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: about it like this. So I'm a parent, and now
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: that my children are moving into adulthood, I recognize that
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: many of the things that we have told them growing up,
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: they're also realizing that I am figuring it out with
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: them as well. And I don't know that it's a
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: lot different in ministry, like this is where the goal is.
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: I think we all know where the goal is, but
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  Speaker 4: I'm still working it out too. I think where people
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: get in trouble is that they're not actually doing the work,
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  Speaker 4: Like I'm telling you that this is the goal, and
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: I'm doing the exact opposite of it, Which is why
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: I've tried to be really intentional about being authentic. Like
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: I'm going through depression, I'm going through an anxiety. This
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: is what I'm learning in the midst of that, because
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: it doesn't serve me for me to come off as
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: your God when we all need the same one so
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: I try to really make sure that I'm not on
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: a pedestal.
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  Speaker 3: I try to kick the pedestal down.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Like you see a preacher. A preacher will be preaching, right,
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  Speaker 2: and then he's cheating on his wife. Or a preacher'll
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: be preaching and then he's hitting his wife, you know
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: what I mean. So it's kind of it's like a
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: blurred line.
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  Speaker 4: Like that's not a blurred line though, that's I mean,
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  Speaker 4: that's not like that's wrong, that's wickedness, you know what
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: I mean?
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  Speaker 2: Like that, how do you how do you to the
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: extreme just now, like cheating on his wife, hit his wife?
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  Speaker 2: You see that a lot of time. You see a
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: preacher say I'm sorry, I cheated on my wife. You
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: see that in the church sometimes none of my preachers,
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: but you do see that. So when you see that,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: it's it's kind of difficult to uphold a preacher. And
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: you'd be like, is this whole ish bullshit or we
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: just playing this game? Or or do you really feel
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: that way and really made a mistake. You understand what
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: I'm saying.
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I can't judge someone's heart and I
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: can't judge their experiences. So I'm a little hesitant to
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: really make a judgment on situations.
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  Speaker 2: I'm not saying anybody in particular, if well.
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: You know people, I don't. I don't know anyone either
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: who's going through this. But I think people infer a lot.
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: But I will say this, like, preachers are human. So
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: if you are who you are, and you can cheat
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: on your wife, and a preacher can cheat on his wife,
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: like he's a man too, she's a woman too. And
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: so you guys are still going to have the same
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: areas of temptation that you need to overcome. I think
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: your response to that, like, what is my response? How
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: do I grow from here? How do I create boundaries?
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: Do I need to sit down? Do I need to heal?
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: I think how you handle your humanity in the face
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: of this divine call is what's most important. I am
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: careful that pastors don't have a license to do whatever
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: they want to because of the power they hold. I
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: think that you can be human, but all of us
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: need to be try and stretching, growing to be more
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: like Jesus or we are up here playing. I'm not
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: asking you to be perfect. I'm asking you to really
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: be on this walk for real.
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: Who's this white path that you talking about.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: And does he listen to the breakfast Club?
• 9:50
  Speaker 6: I want it because you're a mother of six and
• 9:55
  Speaker 6: you're busy, extremely busy with your podcast and then writing
• 9:57
  Speaker 6: a book and then traveling.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: How do you balance that?
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Like mother?
• 10:00
  Speaker 6: And I know you said your children are growing into adulthood,
• 10:03
  Speaker 6: but how do you balance that?
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: Well?
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I feel for you because you got a
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: lot going on. I think it's the message of this book.
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: I think it's really allowing myself to like flow in
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: a different definition of power based off of each of
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: those roles. Because as much as I want to bring
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: the same intensity to everything I do, if I do that,
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: I may end up damaging my children because I'm talking
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: to them like a business partner, and so really defining
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: for myself what does it mean to be powerful in
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: these specific roles and how much capacity do I have
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: to show up.
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: In that space?
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: Asking for help? You know, changing and modifying my life
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: to really fit my priorities has done a lot. And
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: then also just making sure my kids know, like I'm tired.
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: So my daughter is eight, she was devastated when I
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: left yesterday. She was like, please don't leave me. Literally
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: she's like, can you please come home? And I'm like,
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: I just need this one week to get this book
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: in as many hands as possible and their mommy will
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: be home. But I'm packing to her, now you do this, well,
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: I'm doing this, so she understands this. Sometimes absence does
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: not mean that I don't care, yea. And it's a
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: balancing walk, especially I think if you have mom guilt
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: like I do sometimes. But I also want her to
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: see a woman walking in her purpose and being excited
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: about it and changing lives. So I share testimonies with
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: her too. I'm like, let's sit down and read these
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: comments from this weekend. Thank you for being a.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: Part of this. So she feels a part of it
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: as well.
• 11:24
  Speaker 6: Okay, because mama's son is twelve now, but I miss
• 11:27
  Speaker 6: like a lot of him, like a lot of him
• 11:32
  Speaker 6: being going from grade to grade, you know, because my mom,
• 11:34
  Speaker 6: Between my mom and his dad, that's who has I
• 11:37
  Speaker 6: was touring a lot before I actually got to do this,
• 11:40
  Speaker 6: and I just feel so guilty a lot sometimes, Like
• 11:44
  Speaker 6: and now I have this new baby and I'm like,
• 11:45
  Speaker 6: I'm bringing him up to Jersey with me, and he
• 11:48
  Speaker 6: wants to grow up in the house with the baby
• 11:49
  Speaker 6: instead of me being in Jersey with the new baby
• 11:52
  Speaker 6: with you know, and then him still being with my mother,
• 11:55
  Speaker 6: like and I don't want to repeat.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: That, right, I don't want to do that again. So
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: I feel good.
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: So I had my son at fourteen, and I think
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: one of the things that makes me feel most guilty
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: is that I know that I was growing up while
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: he was growing up, and so the way that I'm
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: able to be present even for my younger kids, I
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: know that he didn't have that.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: So I think, one, I don't know if.
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: You have to deal with this, but I had to
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: really forgive myself for what I didn't know when I
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: was raising him.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I just I didn't know.
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: I did the best that I could and to trust
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: that I still have opportunity. If you think about adult
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: children who were wounded from relationships that didn't go well
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: with their parents, there's still a little kid inside of
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: them that once their parents to show up, that wants
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: to experience healing in that space. And so it reminds
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: me too that I'm never out of time, So I'm
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: constantly still reparenting him, even at twenty one years old.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: You know, in the clamp down chapter.
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: You start by saying, if you're one of those people
• 12:51
  Speaker 5: who know better and instantly do better, I'm probably going
• 12:54
  Speaker 5: to be the friend who you roll your eyes at constantly.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Why are you that friend?
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: Because things need to marinate from me, Like I don't
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: just activate things like you could tell me, like you
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: need to be vegan and I will. I'm gonna let
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: that marinate for a year or two before that actually activates,
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: because I don't do things just because someone says that
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: I should do them. It has to be real. I
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: have to have a conviction about it. But I will
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: marinate it so I can figure out, like how does
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: this revelation actually fit within the context of my life.
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: So in the back of the books, each book has
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: like something to marinate on, something to activate, and something
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: to pray on, because I know everyone moves into change differently.
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: I love the marinating before activating, but I feel like
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: that's probably how the majority of us moved. Is there
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: ever a time we shouldn't marinate before activating?
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Like the spirit says, do it? We just go?
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: I mean to each his own. I think if you feel.
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: I'm not into telling folks what they should do, you know,
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: what I mean, Like, I think if you feel like
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: there's a now on it, you should do that.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: You should move in it now.
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: And a lot of times when we move in it now,
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: we learn the marination lessons afterwards, you know.
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: But yeah, what about the spirit though, sound like just
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: said move like the spirit always tells you to be
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: patient and marinate.
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: I mean, I'm in relationship at on that I didn't
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: have a choice. I didn't have a choice. I didn't
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: have a toy that oh Lord, But yeah, no, no,
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: I had I was in the spirit and that I
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: had a mission to accomplish and I didn't want anything
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: to distract me. And my husband wasn't there and my
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: parents weren't there. So it wasn't like I was gonna
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: be able toss the microphone. I was the you know,
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: senior leadership person that was present in that room, and.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: So I had to take it off.
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: I didn't love it, I didn't enjoy it, but I
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: stood up to it, and uh, I think it was
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: really interesting because I was going through something at that
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: time where I was wondering could I be in Dallas
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: a part of senior leadership, like with my past, with
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: the way that I preached with the way that I'm
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: a little different than I guess traditional pastors, and I
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: really did feel like God was trying to tell me, like,
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: just be authentic, just trust yourself in that season of
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: my life. And so that Sunday, when I'm sitting there
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: with a wig cap on and then other women started
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: taking their wigs off on the altar, I was like,
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: you know what, I think this maybe God trying to
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: tell me You're gonna have to show up as your
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: full self in order to get this done. And I
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: know a lot of people made fun of it, but
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: there were so many people who were like, seeing you
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: stand there being courageous stepping into that moment helped me
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: so much to just embrace who I am. And so
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: I really feel like God took something that would have
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: been very embarrassing and at least allowed there to be
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: a buffer from the people who were moved by that moment.
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: For me, I was like, that's why we rock with her.
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: You're always wanted to be your true self at all times.
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, like, y'all know, this isn't my hair,
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: and like, no, it's not ideal, but it's not more
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: important than what I'm here for so like, I'm want
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: to take it off and we're going to move on
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: down the road. When I got back behind the platform
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: that I was like, oh lord, I have desecrated the.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Bottom, so.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: There are bundles on the altar.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: I have just created this place. But yeah, it just
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: turns out it wasn't that way.
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: I love out chapter sixteen to Know Your Harm? Oh yeah,
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: what is knowing your heart?
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: Uh? Well, I talk about the oath that doctors take
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: where they say, you know that they'll do no harm,
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: but they're also recognizing that they're practicing.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: And when we move in power.
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: Part of the reason why so many of us don't
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: move in power is that we're afraid that we won't
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: do it perfectly or that will make mistakes. But if
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: we can embrace the reality that I'm going to be
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: powerful and humble, I'm going to be wrong, I'm going
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: to have to apologize. I'm going to mess up. I
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: may say things too sharply. Then that doesn't make me
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: any less powerful. As a matter of fact, it makes
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: me more powerful because I recognize that my position of
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: power could disrupt my relationships sometimes, but I value these
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: relationships enough to learn how to be powerful in a
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: way that honors the spaces that I'm in.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Next time, what's your thought on the way that church
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: is now? Right, as a kid, you had to go
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: to church every Sunday. You had to be in the building,
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: you had to sit there, and if there was a baptism,
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: you was gonna be there all day. Now a lot
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: of people turn it on Sunday morning and it's a
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: lot easiest. What are your thoughts on people not actually
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: attending the institution of church.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: First of all, you're not about to tie tripping me. No,
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: you don't, No, you don't. Just be very clear. Let
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: me see.
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think that the world is changing, and
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: as the world changes, I think people are finding things
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: that are more convenient for them. And I do think
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: that you are able to have intimate encounters with God
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: from this comfort of your own home. And I think
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: it's powerful that that's the way that things are being spread.
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: I think it's like watching a football game at home,
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: Like you can get hype, you can be excited for
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: your team, but there is something about being in the
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: room with other people that makes you just take things
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: over the edge. I was surprised that in a world
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: where people are uncoming to church that we have forty
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: thousand women at the woman Evolve conference, because I'm like,
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: I don't know that this is a thing that people
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: are going to really be into when they like virtual experiences,
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: but there is something that happens in healthy community and
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: connection that allows your faith to really be strengthened. I've
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: had people come into rooms and like they didn't really
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: want to be there, somebody drug them in there. They
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: were going through a depression, they don't even know why
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: they were there, but just being in the space, sitting
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: next to someone who was able to care for them
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: and just being surrounded by worship lifted their spirits when
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: they couldn't lift their own hands. And I don't think
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: that there's any substitute for that.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Would you also keep it tight though one hour's.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: Let us do something I don't. Yeah, it's it's finished.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: He said it.
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: Everything everything he said has been said to me, and
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: so now we can go home and have brunch.
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: I do think we have to honor people's time because
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: people do have options, and so being really intentional about
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: making sure people feel like I can go get out
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: and have the rest of my day is part of
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: what we should really lean into.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Is the church whack?
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: That's a question, that's one of the question. That's what
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: I got smoked for. He said that he thinks the
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: church has become whack.
• 18:59
  Speaker 7: I think it's a system now on God.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: It's a system.
• 19:03
  Speaker 7: Everything is a system, and systems work with or without God.
• 19:06
  Speaker 7: So I think the institution of church is whack. I
• 19:09
  Speaker 7: think how church is ran is whack. I think the
• 19:13
  Speaker 7: religious system and structure is whack. I don't subscribe to it.
• 19:17
  Speaker 7: Even though I grew up in it, I benefited from it,
• 19:20
  Speaker 7: but I learned that God is not the church.
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: I heard in context what he said made a lot
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: more sense, but I heard the sound bite was trash.
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: I think that everyone has a different experience of church,
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: and I think that there are some people who have
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: probably had an experience that has disheartened them in that way.
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: But I love the church. I mean, as much as
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: I went through my own church hurt and trauma, the
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: church was also really beautiful to me in times where
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: I didn't have anywhere to go and I could sit
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: in that presence and experience God. And sometimes to really
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: experience God in church, you have to look past the
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: people and maybe that's whack. Maybe it's not, because maybe
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: it keeps our focus on what you really matter.
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: I love what you said too about know your harm.
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: You said, deflecting from the way that you harm someone
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: and highlighting the way that they harm instead is a
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: sign of immaturity that keeps you from truly being helpful.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Found on that well.
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: A lot of times we will not embrace what we
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: did to someone because of what they've done to us,
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: and it keeps us from owning our stuff and growing
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: and so being able to say, even though my teacher
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: may not be perfect, like my teacher may have failed
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: in chemistry, but they getting an A plus in this
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: history class, that means that I need to at least
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: be able to receive from them this opportunity to grow.
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: And I feel like in relationships that's hard, especially if
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: you're married, because when you're married, your person brings up
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: something and you like, oh, but last week you did X,
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: Y and Z, But what did you do today?
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: You know?
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: And how can you own that?
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: And I think when we own our stuff, we give
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: other people permission to do it as well. Sometimes we
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: want to be the person who receives the apology, but
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: not the one who gives it, but we have the
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: lead in humility and vulnerability.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: You said, that's how you into a rate word initially.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: Right where you oh, no, yeah.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: No, everything, Yes, his stuff at him all the time.
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: Well, I don't know if I was throwing his stuff
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: at him as much as I was maybe reciting it
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: in my own head. But I think I will say
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: that when I was single, after I went through my divorce,
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: I finally got my life together with me and my
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: two kids. You really could not tell me that I
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: was not misindependent out here. So I really went into
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: our relationship with a certain level of pride where I
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: was like, at the end of the day, I got
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: my stuff together. I finally love who I am and
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: embracing it. And so when I was in relationship with him,
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: and he would just ask me the simplest of questions.
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: We weren't even fighting. It would just be like, why
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: why'd you do that? I didn't like that because I'm
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: not used to having nobody questioned my decision and it
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: was a simple, harmless question. And so I think that
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: I went into a defensive one because I wanted to
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: protect my healing. And when you're in a marriage and
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: you go into it trying to protect yourself and make
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: sure that that you don't get done the way that
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: you were done in the past. I don't know that
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: it's fair for creating intimacy, and so I had to
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: do a lot of work of receiving his perspective and
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: finding it valuable so that I could become better, and
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: I have become better as a result of it.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: What does power look like in a relationship?
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: Those dynamics are always changing. I think, especially now that
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: we see hyper masculinity is beginning to be interrogated. We're
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: seeing women move into positions where sometimes they're the breadwinners
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: and men are at home being more comfortable taking care
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: of the family. I think power in a relationship is
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: recognizing the strengths of what your person carries and how
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: that strength builds you in your area of weakness, without
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: feeling like they have to be strong or stronger in
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: the same area that you're strong. I think it's like
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: this symbiotic relationship, this flow where you're able to build
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: a life together because both of you bring something different
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: to the table, and to honor that, to really honor
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: it is important.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: You said something else in the book.
• 23:03
  Speaker 5: You said when you are unable to connect the dots
• 23:05
  Speaker 5: between who you since you could become and who you
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: presently are, it doesn't just cause internal frustration.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: It renders you powerless.
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: And one of the examples you use is you don't
• 23:13
  Speaker 5: defend yourself when misunderstood. Yeah, and to me, not feeling
• 23:18
  Speaker 5: to need to explain yourself is power.
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: Well, I think not explaining yourself and not defending yourself,
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: and I think it's different because you have a platform
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: and so you can't defend yourself twenty four to seven.
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: But when we're in intimate relationships with someone and they
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: have an expectation.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: Of who we are or this idea of who.
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: We are, and we don't change that, we allow them
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: to believe it, we do end up powerless because I'm
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: not even bringing the full version of who I am
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: into this friendship, into this parent child dynamic, and you
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: end up robbing yourself of the ability to really show
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: up in your power and allow them to believe something
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: about you that's not true. And so it is powerful
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: to be like, you got me messed up, Like that's
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: not what I believe you, that's not what I think.
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: And if we're going to walk this thing I want
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: you to know who I am for real, so that
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: you can know what to expect from me.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, guys about intimate relationship.
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's hard.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: It's hard for me.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: You know, she has to go. I know she has
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: TV or something, but I know she has to go.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: So damn.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: He's doing is telling them the book. They're not gonna buy.
• 24:24
  Speaker 6: If you ask all the questions about the book, making
• 24:27
  Speaker 6: her basically recite the.
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: Book, you should pray to your bob looks like hers,
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: That's what you should.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Why my bob.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: He can get here? Why like when she put a
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: wig off? Because I.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: Would addressing keep answer.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Questions to him.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: So you forced me to see.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: Well, what message you hope peop get from the bo Oh?
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: The message that I am hoping people get from the
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: book is that power is a flow, and that power
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: that you have experienced in your past is still present
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: in your future. It just must it just might be
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: taking on a different form. So to be open to
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: how power is being redefined in your present. Prayer, Thank
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: you God for this opportunity, for this platform. Thank you
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: for using these voices at this stage in their life.
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: And I'd usually pray for the listeners. But God, I'm
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: going to pray for them that you would stir up
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: the gift of God that's on the inside of them,
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: that you would highlight the areas of their life where
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: you want them to experience more of your power and
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: to show them the power that you've placed inside of them.
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: I thank you God for giving them wisdom strategy not
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: just for their careers, but for their family, their emotional
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: health and wellness. And God, I pray that you would
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: continue to show them your life that they may into
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: it in Jesus' name.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: Make sure you go get Sarah Jke roberts new book
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: Power Moves Ignite your Confidence to become a Force, and
• 26:08
  Speaker 5: subscribe to her podcast, The Woman of All Podcasts on
• 26:10
  Speaker 5: the Black effect Ieheart Radio podcast Network.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: We appreciate you for coming, Miss Roberts, and you need
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: to come more often for people who think church is
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: whack because you're the person I feel like is going
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: to bridge the gap between you know, church in this
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: new generation.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: I really feel that way, So thank you.
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: That's That's a tremendous honor a lot of responsibility. But
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: I'm committed to, you know, holding down my Square.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: That's right, all right, Sarah Jakes Roberts.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: It's the Breakfast Club.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Good morning, wake that.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club