Latest / Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health / Learning to Parent Without Controlling Outcomes When Your Child is Struggling with Substances & Mental Health, A Family Story

Transcript

Learning to Parent Without Controlling Outcomes When Your Child is Struggling with Substances & Mental Health, A Family Story · Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health

0:01
Janice: When my son came home, he was sober, but he was very tricky, emotionally.
0:10
Janice: And I see a lot of moms on the stream talk about this.
0:13
Janice: They're worried about paranoia.
0:16
Janice: There was a lot of paranoia, a lot of crazy magical thinking, and I didn't know what to do.
0:23
Janice: I thought I was getting my sober son back and we were going to go back to things as normal.
0:27
Janice: And the stuff that would come out of his mouth, Scared the crap out of me.
0:41
Brenda: Welcome to Hope Stream, a podcast where you'll hear interviews, conversations, and encouraging words.
0:47
Brenda: For parents of teens and young adults who struggle with substance misuse and mental health.
0:53
Brenda: I'm Brenda Zane, your host and a fellow parent whose child struggled.
0:57
Brenda: I'm so glad you're here.
0:59
Brenda: Take a deep breath and know you're not doing this alone anymore.
1:04
Brenda: Hey friend, we're back today with another Hope Stream family story episode.
1:09
Brenda: And you, I am telling you are going to love this one.
1:14
Brenda: It's so fun to highlight our members because they're all so unique and their families look very different, but they also have some pretty similar traits and experiences.
1:28
Brenda: Janice has been a member of the stream community for over three years.
1:33
Brenda: And I would say that she has had a pretty incredible transformation from a self proclaimed hardened, no nonsense Brooklyn executive to someone who remains a diehard New Yorker, but who can now engage in a little bit of woo woo here and there, and even has a vision board.
1:53
Brenda: Wow.
1:55
Brenda: Janice's young adult son went from being a strong, athletic, macho guy to someone who Janice realized when he moved back in with her during the COVID lockdown.
2:07
Brenda: Was really struggling with his mental health and had a very unhealthy relationship with alcohol and methamphetamine Little did she know what lay beneath the substance misuse Was a deep rejection of himself and the fact that he is gay in our conversation You're gonna hear how Janice found this out how she reacted to that news and the impact it had on her son It's probably not what you think She also shares her personal journey from being in a place of uncertainty and a determination to fix the situation with her problem solving skills, to buckling up for the wild ride, getting herself educated, and being surrounded by a community of people who shared her experience and could fully relate.
3:00
Brenda: You will love Janice's sense of directness and humor, her ability to examine her own role in the experience that she and her son went through, and you'll hear her number one tip for anyone going through something similar.
3:17
Brenda: She's a priceless member of our community and I can't wait for you to soak in some of the wisdom of the tribe.
3:24
Brenda: And as a reminder, names have been changed to protect people's privacy.
3:29
Brenda: Okay, take a listen to another incredible HopeStream mom, Janice.
3:33
Brenda: Enjoy.
3:49
Brenda: Hello, Ms. Janice.
3:51
Brenda: This is super fun.
3:52
Brenda: You get to be in our first round of family recovery story episodes.
3:58
Brenda: Welcome to the podcast.
3:59
Brenda: Now you're on the other end of the mic.
4:02
Brenda: Thank you.
4:03
Brenda: I know you're a, you're an avid listener.
4:06
Brenda: I remember when we met up we've met a couple of times, but I know you said that you would listen while you're running across the Brooklyn Bridge, which I always just have that picture in my mind.
4:14
Brenda: I just love it.
4:15
Brenda: Thank you.
4:16
Janice: Yeah.
4:16
Janice: Yeah.
4:17
Janice: You have been carried all over the streets of New York, Brenda, your voice and your stories and you know, the podcast on the Hope Stream literally have carved paths around New York.
4:31
Brenda: I wish I could get credit for all of the calories burned while you were running and listening.
4:37
Brenda: That would be amazing.
4:39
Brenda: If I got to count all of your miles, but I do not get to count all of your miles.
4:45
Brenda: But well, I wanted to talk with you for this because you have such an incredible story and it's a little unique because you are not dealing with a teenager, which a lot of our families are.
4:58
Brenda: A lot of our families have kids, 14, 15.
5:01
Brenda: So that's a little different for you.
5:03
Brenda: And we'll get into that.
5:04
Brenda: And also just your, I just really see you as like a sponge, like you just can't absorb enough information, education, and then you act on it, which is the cool part because it's one thing to learn and to, you know, like absorb the information, but unless you're willing to put it into practice, it doesn't really go very far.
5:24
Brenda: So.
5:25
Brenda: Yeah.
5:25
Janice: Yeah.
5:26
Janice: Listen, I enjoy, I enjoy trying things and it's, it's definitely even fun at work as most people have probably realized.
5:35
Janice: Right.
5:36
Janice: I know.
5:36
Janice: Lessons we learn here in the stream are great with husbands, coworkers, bosses, you know, they have a wide swath.
5:46
Janice: So it's been a lot of fun experimenting.
5:48
Brenda: It is.
5:49
Brenda: Don't you feel a little stealth sometimes like, Oh, I'm going to try this on them.
5:55
Janice: Am I?
5:55
Janice: Forget about it.
5:57
Janice: It's so funny.
5:58
Brenda: Yeah, right.
5:59
Brenda: I know.
5:59
Brenda: Motivational interviewing, who would have known that it would be like, they don't teach that in business school.
6:05
Brenda: And isn't that weird?
6:06
Brenda: Yeah, I think they would.
6:08
Janice: I have so many comments on, you know, one of the things that I think about when you bring up business school.
6:15
Janice: And I mean, you know, I'm an executive and I've worked.
6:19
Janice: All my life in business as a lot of the moms on the stream and you know, I always think about let go of the outcome, you know, and all your life in business school and everything, you know, you are told to control the outcome.
6:32
Janice: Like you must control, you know, you know, prior planning, you know, is very important for you.
6:38
Janice: So here you are trained like crazy to control the outcome.
6:44
Janice: Yes.
6:45
Janice: And then all of a sudden you're at this.
6:48
Janice: You know, with your kids, as adult kids, and you're just like, gotta let go of the outcome.
6:53
Janice: And it's like, I'm not trained to do this.
6:55
Janice: I'm really good at controlling the outcome.
6:58
Janice: I'm really good.
6:59
Janice: I've done projects.
7:00
Janice: I've been successful.
7:01
Janice: I've controlled the outcome.
7:03
Janice: Right.
7:03
Janice: But now I can't.
7:05
Janice: Right.
7:05
Janice: I've got a little Oh, so it's so counterintuitive to so much of what we have been taught.
7:12
Janice: You know, if I said to my boss, man, I'm going to sit this out and see what develops here, you know, boss, that would be kind of crazy.
7:19
Janice: Or, hey, let's go let the process flow and see where it lands.
7:23
Janice: Like, no, you got to hit your number.
7:25
Janice: You got to make that bottom line, you know, you've got to, which just, no, that definitely doesn't work at work.
7:32
Brenda: Yes, exactly.
7:33
Brenda: You have to have your feet in both worlds a little bit too.
7:37
Brenda: You do.
7:37
Janice: At work, you have to be on your game and control your outcome.
7:40
Janice: And then with your kids, you got to turn that switch off.
7:43
Janice: And also with little kids, right?
7:44
Janice: You got to control, you know, you can't just let back and let your kid, you know, there's all sorts of things, but it is a funny dichotomy that you, you know, The very things that you're trained to do as an adult that make you successful, particularly in business, right, are the very things you need to let go of with your adult er children.
8:04
Brenda: Yeah, and that transition's hard because you do go from, okay, I do have to control, and I have to make sure they're safe, and I have to keep them safe, and I have to do all these things, and then there's no, nobody gives you, like The guide of how to pull back and how to start doing that.
8:21
Brenda: So let's just rewind a little bit.
8:23
Brenda: You came to us for some help with your son and maybe tell us a little bit, like paint a picture of him for us when maybe when he was little, just kind of give us an idea
8:35
Janice: of his personality.
8:36
Janice: I was a single mom.
8:38
Janice: I had two children and my son.
8:41
Janice: was, is an incredible athlete, grew up to be six foot, like 200 pounds, amazing soccer player, went to school on a soccer, you know, kind of soccer ride.
8:53
Janice: He was a surfer.
8:56
Janice: Basketball player like any sport.
8:58
Janice: This kid did incredibly gracefully.
9:01
Janice: He was a two time.
9:02
Janice: I want to say N. C. Double a champion and was an M. B. P. For the game.
9:08
Janice: So really incredible athlete.
9:12
Janice: He did not have any ADHD, he didn't have any development, he was a great student, very motivated to get into college.
9:21
Janice: I wasn't on the lookout, you know, my father was an alcoholic, so, and we have alcoholism in our family.
9:27
Janice: So, while I was cautious, I wasn't, you know, no alarm bells rang for me for all those years.
9:33
Janice: And my son was kind of like, a kind of a bro kind of guy, like, you know, they say lax bro.
9:40
Janice: My son was like a soccer bro and he joined a fraternity for the soccer team, college.
9:47
Janice: And, you know, then I started noticing a little drinking, but I'm thinking, this is college drinking.
9:53
Janice: They're crazy, you know, soccer team parties.
9:57
Janice: And, you know, each summer I'd say, well, you know, You know, you look like you're partying kind of hard, but you know, he pulled it together and had internships and moved home after college, got a great job you know, just, uh, worked in digital marketing.
10:14
Janice: Of all three of my kids, he landed the best coming home from college.
10:21
Janice: He moved out, but we would come home for the weekend.
10:24
Janice: I'd always have dinners on Sundays, or the kids down, uh, around the house on weekends.
10:30
Janice: And he just looked terrible, you know.
10:33
Janice: And I thought, well, you know, these kids are partying.
10:36
Janice: They, they hit it hard on Thursday, Friday, Saturday night.
10:39
Janice: I got him on Sunday.
10:40
Janice: Yeah, kids kind of relax around you.
10:42
Janice: And I thought, well, you know, and I was on his back, you know, I was like, gosh, you look terrible.
10:47
Janice: How come you're sleeping all day?
10:50
Janice: My son was also very popular, uh, had tons and tons of friends.
10:54
Janice: The kid was never alone.
10:55
Janice: Lots of good friends, all athletic, all going places.
10:59
Janice: So none of my alarm bells rung until he moved home.
11:03
Janice: During COVID.
11:05
Janice: And I noticed for somebody who earned a lot of money was always kind of broke.
11:10
Janice: He was always sleeping a lot.
11:12
Janice: He'd work up late.
11:14
Janice: Now, now he's in his bedroom working late.
11:17
Janice: It's, you know, he did, he used to love his office.
11:20
Janice: Now he's working from home.
11:22
Janice: I started to become concerned.
11:25
Janice: I never realized what an issue was until he was outed.
11:32
Janice: By a friend as being bisexual.
11:38
Janice: Now, I work in an industry with many variations on what people choose to, uh, declare themselves.
11:47
Janice: I've always worked with gay people.
11:50
Janice: I work in an industry that's very, very creative and.
11:54
Janice: I had never picked this up with my own son, and I'm close with my son.
11:58
Janice: So this kind of threw me a little.
12:02
Janice: Yeah.
12:03
Janice: And by this time my son is 25, and I of course I'm so concerned about being the cool mom.
12:15
Janice: I was so concerned with my own reaction.
12:18
Janice: And, you know, I live in Brooklyn, in the Brooklyn bubble.
12:22
Janice: I come from an extremely liberal family.
12:25
Janice: We're all sort of left wing Democrats.
12:27
Janice: You know, we're all open and accepting.
12:30
Janice: So, of course, rather than focusing that this could be a big traumatic thing for my son, I approached him and I was like, hey, you know, I heard that you're bisexual.
12:44
Janice: Like, I'm totally cool with that.
12:46
Janice: I still love you.
12:47
Janice: Everything's great.
12:48
Janice: And I was so just focused on my own reaction.
12:52
Janice: I kind of blew it then.
12:53
Janice: You know, this is a kid who His whole persona was like, soccer, jock, you know, big guy, everybody thought he was very macho, you know, and he was always a physical presence, and this was a big deal.
13:12
Janice: Yeah.
13:13
Janice: And I, of course, treat it like past the salt.
13:17
Janice: Like, I was like, whatever.
13:19
Janice: Does anyone want a refill on their iced tea?
13:21
Janice: Dan is bisexual.
13:23
Janice: And by the way, I learned out later, that was just the opening door to the fact he's gay.
13:27
Brenda: Yes.
13:28
Janice: But, so, you know, classic.
13:32
Brenda: You're thinking, okay, this is news, but I'm totally cool with it.
13:36
Brenda: And his response was not so Great to that, or what was his, like, what?
13:43
Janice: He's like, don't make a big thing about it, mom.
13:45
Janice: I'm like, no, no, I'm cool.
13:46
Janice: He's like, yeah, you know, I'm just experimenting, you know, I don't really define myself as anything.
13:51
Janice: And I was like, uh, okay.
13:54
Janice: And then later as he kind of, I, that was kind of the watershed moment where then, I don't know whether that opened the door for him to, you know, he then started acting out more, started drinking more.
14:14
Janice: And then it spiraled quickly after that moment that I noticed that he, I found, you know, like a lot of moms, you don't want to do this moment, but when you're, when your child is acting erratically, you kind of look in their bag one day when the door is open, and I saw a bag of crystal something.
14:34
Janice: And I was like, okay, you know, I, of course I did the Googling and I confronted him and I was like, you know, we got to get help.
14:44
Janice: And then I, of course, you know, I'm action mom snapping into action, looking up, you know, you know, programs and things, get him an IOP because he was working at the time.
14:55
Janice: Thought I could, you know, large and in charge, cool mom, handling things.
14:59
Janice: I got this.
15:01
Janice: I got this.
15:02
Janice: You know, just like my, my control of the outcome comes right into play.
15:06
Brenda: Right.
15:07
Janice: Yeah, I look up all these programs.
15:08
Janice: I sign them up for an IOP.
15:10
Janice: And, you know, everything feels so urgent at that time.
15:13
Janice: And it didn't start till Thursday.
15:15
Janice: And this was Monday.
15:16
Janice: Anyway, it goes.
15:17
Janice: It's like, hey, mom.
15:20
Janice: That place is for formerly incarcerated people.
15:23
Janice: I was the only person.
15:25
Janice: It was like they were all cool, but it was really weird for me, and I don't think it's for me.
15:30
Janice: And, you know, I came to a head like maybe one or two weekends, and he just said, Listen, I'm leaving.
15:37
Janice: I'm going to Philly.
15:38
Janice: New York is really the cause of all this.
15:40
Janice: I need to start over.
15:42
Janice: Get a, you know.
15:44
Janice: And, you know, in a way, he protected me.
15:49
Janice: He left, and I did not see the worst of it.
15:53
Janice: And that would be the kindness that my son did.
15:57
Janice: I think he that was the kindness.
15:59
Janice: I mean, and he you know, left for Philly, I didn't hear from him for a long time.
16:04
Janice: His drugs of choice were crystal meth and alcohol usually starting with alcohol into crystal meth, which is a part of the gay scene.
16:15
Janice: And part of, uh, part of that world and he devolved slowly, not slowly, quickly into them.
16:23
Brenda: What was going on with you inside of you while this was happening?
16:28
Brenda: Because you're in a very high power position, like you, you can't just like, you know, roll into work and phone it in.
16:35
Brenda: What's going on with you when this was happening?
16:38
Janice: Well, at first it was total shock, but you know?
16:42
Janice: I, I don't know how, I just was like, okay, I could sit here and feel sorry for myself or I can get myself educated.
16:51
Janice: And I was like, I'm gonna get myself educated and I went on to the partnership for a drug free, I don't know why I didn't go to Al Anon, because my whole, my family is kind of Al Anon.
17:00
Janice: My mom went to Al Anon when, not, is it Al Anon?
17:03
Janice: Yeah.
17:03
Janice: When my dad was drinking, my father actually.
17:06
Janice: Just for the record, stopped drinking when I was like eight and was an amazing man and a sponsor and did a lot of great things.
17:13
Janice: But you know, for some reason Al Anon didn't speak to me.
17:16
Janice: I went to a partnership, uh,
17:19
Brenda: to end addiction.
17:20
Janice: I went to a meeting.
17:21
Janice: I think the second meeting I went to you were in.
17:25
Janice: You probably didn't know me then.
17:27
Brenda: No.
17:28
Janice: Then started, got the book,
17:30
Brenda: right
17:31
Janice: away.
17:32
Brenda: Beyond Addiction.
17:33
Janice: And pretty quickly, uh, I listen, like, you know, listened to a couple of podcasts, but stumbled across yours, and I cannot quite remember how, but as soon as I heard what you were doing, I Got into the stream.
17:51
Janice: I learned about craft and this is going to sound crazy, but it immediately changed my relationship with my son.
18:02
Janice: The second I stopped haranguing and went to like, Hey.
18:09
Janice: Just checking in to say, Hey, what's going on?
18:13
Janice: Love you and hung up.
18:15
Janice: Quick text, just changed the whole tone and I think it may have been like a total of eight weeks.
18:26
Janice: And I started getting phone calls back and then it was more like six weeks later.
18:33
Janice: I'm ready.
18:35
Janice: Wow.
18:37
Janice: It was that fast.
18:38
Janice: It was shocking to me.
18:40
Janice: Now I knew that was just the beginning of the road, and of course, what followed was maybe a year and a half of in and out of, you know, places, and, but, but I learned so much.
18:52
Janice: You know, the first place I arranged, the second place I was like, actually, you do the homework.
18:56
Janice: You know, so lots of different, you know, lots, every time I learned and, you know, I hear a lot of parents say their Children have been through a couple and my son definitely went through three or four programs, you know, but each time they pick up tools.
19:15
Brenda: Yes,
19:15
Janice: they do.
19:17
Janice: And each time was like a little longer.
19:19
Janice: Like the first one was two weeks.
19:20
Janice: Then the next one was three weeks.
19:23
Janice: And then, a month.
19:25
Janice: Then, you know, like, so it just kept progressively, you know, again.
19:30
Janice: Disappointment, heartache.
19:32
Janice: You know, like, you name it.
19:33
Janice: The rollercoaster ride.
19:35
Janice: You see, but it was and you know, in the end, Brenda, he said to me, stop spending all this money.
19:44
Janice: I'm going to AA, and I've got to accept myself.
19:48
Janice: And he started to accept himself.
19:51
Janice: And he's like, now that I accept who I am, I'm not even tempted to drink.
20:00
Janice: He's like, it just, a switch went off for me.
20:03
Janice: And it's about self love and acceptance.
20:07
Janice: And he just, he, he couldn't accept that he was gay.
20:12
Janice: Right.
20:13
Janice: Right.
20:13
Janice: He, and, and this is a kid born in 1995, raised in liberal Brooklyn, they call it the Brooklyn bubble, they make fun of it on Saturday Night Live how liberal we are.
20:23
Janice: Yeah, okay.
20:24
Janice: Like, went to like, you know, like, but he.
20:28
Janice: Couldn't accept this in himself.
20:30
Janice: So
20:31
Brenda: interesting.
20:32
Janice: Yup.
20:32
Janice: And he said, Mom, it wasn't you.
20:34
Janice: Wasn't the fam.
20:36
Janice: I was not ready to accept it in myself.
20:39
Janice: I wanted to be perfect.
20:41
Janice: Now, I was a single mom.
20:42
Janice: He didn't know his dad.
20:44
Janice: My kids are biracial.
20:45
Janice: And so, you know, he was like, you know, this just felt like strike three for me.
20:49
Janice: I didn't have my dad picking me up at the soccer fields.
20:52
Janice: I was a different color than, you know, half the people.
20:56
Janice: But, you know, Brooklyn is quite integrative.
20:59
Janice: But he was like, this was just a strike three.
21:01
Janice: I just didn't want it.
21:03
Janice: I had backed myself into a persona of myself.
21:08
Janice: And I couldn't get out of it.
21:10
Janice: I was trapped.
21:11
Brenda: Yeah.
21:12
Brenda: Bless his heart.
21:13
Brenda: It just, you know, that we talk a lot about and, and Kraft teaches us so much about compassion and really understanding that why, right?
21:22
Brenda: Of this is, he found some solutions that were working for him.
21:27
Brenda: Yeah.
21:27
Brenda: They weren't the problem.
21:28
Brenda: They were his solution.
21:29
Brenda: And once he figured out what that problem was, and then, you know, when you, like when I'm hearing this story, oh my gosh, I just want to give him a hug like this.
21:38
Brenda: Poor kid, right?
21:40
Brenda: He's just.
21:41
Brenda: He knew since
21:41
Janice: he was 11.
21:42
Janice: Oh.
21:44
Janice: I knew in middle school.
21:47
Janice: And he hid that for his entire, till he was 20.
21:51
Brenda: Oh, gosh.
21:53
Brenda: And it only
21:53
Janice: came out in secretive and furtive and, you know, just ways that he couldn't accept.
21:59
Brenda: Yeah.
22:00
Brenda: It was just probably so painful for him.
22:02
Brenda: Yeah.
22:02
Brenda: And that's what I, I see, you know, our moms in the community as they start, like the lights start to turn on, right?
22:12
Brenda: And it's like, okay, this is, the behavior looks crazy, but it does make sense if you can.
22:19
Brenda: And we don't always get to know, right?
22:21
Brenda: We don't like, you know now, but you maybe it was, maybe if it was something else you wouldn't have known, but we still can understand that there is a reason this makes sense.
22:32
Janice: Yeah, absolutely.
22:34
Janice: Absolutely.
22:35
Janice: And again, hence the, you know, the moment that I could have used to maybe sit down and say, you know, that It must have been really hard for you.
22:43
Janice: I was just so self involved being the cool mom.
22:46
Janice: You know, like looking back, I was like, what was I thinking?
22:49
Janice: You know, what was I do, what, you know?
22:52
Janice: You know, first learning about craft and then learning about motivational interviewing and just really getting all of these things together and listening, like, you know, some of the podcasts that you have, Brenda, they're like revelations, like, and a lot of times You know, I just put my finger on one and I'll listen to it and I'll hear something that you know, is so useful.
23:19
Janice: And there was, you know, there was one episode, it was episode 245, and it's like the funniest thing called Pungent Boundaries, I think.
23:29
Janice: Yes! Nancy Landrum.
23:31
Janice: I was like, you know, what a weird title or whatever.
23:34
Janice: Or Pungent Boundaries.
23:35
Janice: But, you know, it wasn't even the boundary piece, right?
23:39
Janice: She just laid it out.
23:41
Janice: She, you know, her words really spoke to me.
23:44
Janice: And she said, you know, I was a really good mom and I did a lot of things right.
23:52
Janice: Yes.
23:53
Janice: I did a lot of things right, and whatever I did wrong was not enough to cause this addiction.
24:01
Janice: And you know, If that, if I could put that on a billboard, like, I just feel like so many, it was such a moment of release for me when I heard those words.
24:11
Janice: That was an incredible podcast.
24:14
Brenda: Yes.
24:14
Brenda: She's amazing.
24:15
Brenda: She's absolutely amazing.
24:16
Brenda: Yeah.
24:17
Brenda: Yeah.
24:17
Janice: Totally.
24:18
Janice: Totally.
24:18
Janice: But, you know, like in a kind of wacky way, like, it was like so funny.
24:22
Janice: And I was like.
24:23
Janice: You know, I don't know if I would get along with you as a person if I met you, lady, but you just gave me life changing words, like, they were crazy.
24:31
Janice: They were unbelievably helpful.
24:33
Brenda: I just actually got to meet Nancy in person.
24:36
Brenda: She hosted a TEDx event that I spoke at, and she is just the sweetest soul.
24:41
Brenda: And you know, she had the, she was doing this before we knew all of this stuff about CAPT and all that.
24:48
Brenda: And, you know, she kept saying, I think this has something to do with the fact that my son lost his dad when he was three years old.
24:55
Brenda: And everyone's like, no, that's not it.
24:59
Brenda: You're crazy.
25:00
Brenda: And she's like, I kind of think maybe that was traumatic for him.
25:04
Brenda: You know, it's like now we understand so much more.
25:08
Brenda: I'm wondering if you kind of think back and, and you started making some of those changes in yourself, right?
25:14
Brenda: Because we.
25:15
Brenda: We try so hard to make the other person change for so long, and then we go, Oh, I have to change myself.
25:21
Brenda: What are some of the kind of practical things that you did, uh, to change yourself that you think really impacted your relationship?
25:29
Janice: There were a few things.
25:32
Janice: I really didn't understand do the work.
25:35
Janice: Right.
25:36
Janice: You gotta do the work.
25:37
Janice: So I was like, I'm doing all the work, I'm tearing up all of Manhattan listening to all these podcasts.
25:42
Janice: I'm reading these books.
25:43
Janice: I'm doing the work.
25:44
Janice: I'm like, why do they keep saying do the work?
25:47
Janice: You know, and then I was like, oh, yeah, I really do have to do the work.
25:51
Janice: I got myself into therapy.
25:53
Brenda: And
25:56
Janice: I started, I started really focusing on myself.
26:04
Janice: And I have to tell you, I am a dyed in the wool New Yorker.
26:10
Janice: And when I first heard you and Kathy, and I was like, these woo woo ladies from the West Coast, like, self care.
26:18
Janice: I'm like, what are they talking about?
26:21
Janice: I don't have time to do yoga.
26:22
Janice: I'm in a crisis.
26:23
Janice: Right.
26:25
Janice: A little West Coast to go tell me to do yoga.
26:28
Janice: That's so funny.
26:30
Janice: I was just like, you know, I like these girls, but I'm just like not having this self care business.
26:35
Janice: Right.
26:36
Janice: You know, I really thought that, you know,
26:38
Brenda: as a New Yorker.
26:39
Brenda: New York is excluded from this part of the plan.
26:43
Janice: You know, and I was like, ugh, this self care business.
26:46
Janice: You know, I just don't get how this connects.
26:48
Janice: You know, and do the work, and I kind of put the two together because once you slow down to do a little self care, you begin to understand you have to do the work.
26:56
Janice: So you know, I really, on top of being a dyed in the wool New Yorker, I'm not an empath.
27:05
Janice: I am definitely like, I love empaths, but I am definitely not an empath.
27:09
Janice: And I had to get in touch with my empathetic side, which is still painful for me and which I spend some time in therapy, but I have to have empathy for myself in order to be empathetic towards other people.
27:26
Janice: So that was like a big piece of learning that I learned through this, you know one self care as silly as I, days that I think it sounded to me, especially you're like, you know, you feel like your house is on fire and someone's asking you, you know.
27:43
Janice: to be grateful for the sunset.
27:45
Janice: You're like, I can't, my house is on fire.
27:47
Janice: So so those are things reaching for that tiny piece of positive.
27:53
Janice: My son, every time he came to, he would stay up at this place in upstate.
27:58
Janice: And he would stay sober, and then he would come to New York for something, and he would always fall off, fall off the wagon is what they said.
28:08
Janice: And you know, the first time he came down, I lost him for like two days.
28:11
Janice: I was like, oh, okay, he never got here.
28:13
Janice: And then he cleaned himself up and got back up to Rochester.
28:17
Janice: So after like the third time, like the next time or two times later happened, he got on the train and we could follow him on our phones and we see him like stop off at a bar, but then he's heading home.
28:29
Janice: Maybe stepped in another one.
28:31
Janice: And then finally he, he got home.
28:36
Janice: And I said, well, each time you relapse, it gets shorter and shorter.
28:41
Janice: Exactly.
28:42
Janice: It was two days, then it was one day, and now it's four hours, and you actually were on your way home.
28:48
Janice: I was like, that's great.
28:50
Janice: And he was like, it is great, isn't it?
28:52
Janice: I was like, next time, you're going to do the whole thing.
28:55
Janice: And you know, next time, he got on the phone and said, I'm landed, stay on the phone with me while I jump on.
29:01
Janice: You know, so I don't know, I reached for the smallest of little victories.
29:06
Janice: which is really hard.
29:08
Janice: So, finding that positive thing was another thing, because, you know, I had been trained to pick and, you know, how could you do this again?
29:17
Janice: But, you know, you're kind of right, you know, set on that.
29:20
Janice: And when you reverse that to look for the positive, which isn't always easy, it's a win.
29:35
Brenda: Hey there, are you feeling stuck in a cycle of drama and arguments with your child, worried sick about their substance use?
29:42
Brenda: I have been there and I want you to know there's hope.
29:46
Brenda: This podcast is just one piece of the curated and trustworthy resources and solutions we offer for parents.
29:53
Brenda: We recognize you need emotional support and a solid plan for moving forward, making positive change in your family.
30:01
Brenda: So in addition to connecting with other parents and feeling like you're part of something bigger, we also teach you practical skills and strategies to dial down the drama and diffuse those heated moments.
30:13
Brenda: We step you through the evidence based craft approach, a game changer that can help you invite your child to accept help without resorting to tough love or waiting for rock bottom.
30:25
Brenda: We have so much more than the podcast waiting for you.
30:28
Brenda: Head over to HopeStreamCommunity.
30:30
Brenda: org to tap into all our resources and become part of the HopeStream family in our private online community.
30:38
Brenda: Remember, you are not alone in this.
30:40
Brenda: We're doing it together.
30:42
Brenda: Now, let's get back to the conversation.
30:58
Brenda: The natural approach is like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe it.
31:01
Brenda: You did this and you did that.
31:02
Brenda: And what's wrong with you?
31:03
Brenda: And how come you can't, and how is that helpful?
31:06
Brenda: Right?
31:07
Brenda: And what you did is so Like if it just felt so good, even to me, and I'm not even the one who was the one who was experiencing it, but to see that somebody actually can acknowledge your progress and acknowledge the fact that you're not a terrible person, that you're doing this, you're really struggling with something, and it's just so beautiful that you were able to do that for him.
31:31
Janice: Yeah.
31:31
Janice: And I, you know, it's again, I learned like to look for the positive.
31:35
Janice: And the third thing I think is, Really focus on yourself.
31:39
Janice: Stop worrying about, especially those kids of adults.
31:44
Janice: Yeah.
31:44
Janice: Like they're adults.
31:46
Janice: Yeah.
31:47
Janice: Every time I go to do something, I pause and I say, what can I do to focus on myself right now?
31:54
Janice: Because, you know, you go through that, you know, you're always worrying.
31:58
Janice: So, focusing on myself Which sounds, again, something that I was very suspicious of, like the, you know, self care.
32:06
Janice: Yes.
32:07
Janice: But focusing on your self development, I guess it's just another way of, you know, do the work.
32:12
Janice: It's so, so important, and it's so elusive in the beginning, right?
32:18
Janice: You're like, what work, what, what?
32:20
Janice: But you know, the more I, you know, the more I drill down, the more work I have to do.
32:27
Brenda: Absolutely.
32:28
Brenda: Absolutely.
32:28
Brenda: It's It's just fun for us to watch people like you who are willing to do the work once you figure out what it is because you really see, I even see like, I remember you in some of the partnership meetings and even just.
32:44
Brenda: your face, like everything looks different, right?
32:48
Brenda: Because you're, you are different.
32:51
Brenda: And it's amazing to see, and this is why when people say, oh, I don't know about this craft thing, this ITC thing, I don't know, like, and I'm just like, just know it works.
33:03
Brenda: It's not always going to work in the amount of time it worked for you or for the other person or whatever, but because even if, let's say your son hadn't really gotten better, maybe he's still really struggling.
33:15
Brenda: Look at you.
33:17
Brenda: You are so much better, right?
33:19
Brenda: You're healthier.
33:20
Janice: Oh, a hundred percent, a hundred, a hundred percent.
33:23
Janice: I, and you know, again.
33:27
Janice: I feel like my son gave me the greatest gift because it changed me.
33:32
Janice: Again, in that episode of, you know, Pungent Pound, like she talks about the masks, like thinking you had the perfect life.
33:39
Janice: You know, I was like this, you know, cool executive living in Brooklyn, have a great career, lovely husband, two kids, you know, and then, you know, then this happens and you're like, It's in the beginning, you don't want to let it go and then learning to just let go of perfection and put it out there because the more you put it out there in the world, the more you get all your imperfections.
34:03
Janice: Just let it out there because the more you put it out there, the more you get back and you begin to know who you can let it out to.
34:11
Janice: And who, you're just like, no.
34:13
Janice: Yes, that's very important.
34:15
Janice: I'm not sharing this with you, you don't deserve it.
34:17
Janice: You know.
34:18
Janice: I'd say, like, you know, just, you know your peeps.
34:21
Janice: And you know who you can open your mouth to.
34:23
Janice: And it's not everybody, so you have to protect yourself.
34:26
Janice: But for the ones that you feel, and I've noticed, like the times I put it out there, I get it ten times back in return.
34:33
Janice: Yeah.
34:34
Janice: Like learning for me, I was all holding it tight.
34:36
Janice: Like, like a lot of moms, you know.
34:39
Janice: Just, you know, juggling those balls in the air, keeping them up, you know, and once you let them drop, the sense of freedom, like, I don't have to be perfect.
34:49
Janice: You know, and Brooklyn, as liberal as it is, you know, lots, it's a very competitive part of the country.
34:56
Janice: Kids get into great school, all the parents get wrapped up to it.
35:00
Janice: Oh, you know, this one's going to Brown, that one's going to Harvard, you know, and it's just such a, so, doesn't matter, right?
35:08
Janice: He's
35:08
Brenda: like, I remember when my son got a job, he got a job at Marshall's, right, when he first got into recovery.
35:16
Brenda: And I literally would have thought like he was the CEO of Amazon, right?
35:21
Brenda: I'm like, my son works part time at the front checkout counter at Marshall's.
35:27
Brenda: It was.
35:29
Brenda: So incredible, because it is incredible to think of what these kids have been through and to, to overcome those things.
35:38
Brenda: And I know your son's doing really well right now.
35:40
Brenda: He's living overseas.
35:42
Brenda: He's just knocking it out of the park.
35:44
Janice: Yeah, well, he is.
35:46
Janice: Listen, my son is doing well.
35:48
Janice: He's been, he's sober, but and he is getting his master's in entrepreneurship, which is fabulous.
35:56
Janice: His mental health is still Very fragile.
35:59
Brenda: Yeah.
36:00
Janice: You know, and, and that's another thing I think there's this expectation once kids do recover that they're just, you know, they're going to be right, they're back on track.
36:10
Janice: Okay, ready to roll.
36:12
Janice: And, you know, it's not really the case.
36:14
Janice: My son lived with me for a year.
36:16
Janice: And There were days we didn't speak, you know, he just, you know, his mental health really took a toll.
36:24
Janice: And so that's the other caution I have, just because they stop drinking or drugging, the problems are there, they're more raw than ever, but they're their problems.
36:37
Janice: They don't need you to fix them.
36:40
Janice: And a couple of times in my, when my son was in early recovery, I'd be like, Oh, would you go to a meeting?
36:46
Janice: And he'd say, My recovery is my business.
36:51
Janice: And I was like, yeah, you're right.
36:54
Janice: It is his business.
36:55
Brenda: Yeah.
36:56
Janice: There's nothing I can do about it.
36:57
Janice: And that's, I go back to where we began of, I've got to let go of the outcome because he's an adult.
37:04
Janice: And I was so happy about the warrior moms because it, you know, these moms who have kids that are, you know, 20 and over have a different set of, you know, kind of issues and things that's, you know, that's quite different from having a 13 or 14 year old.
37:21
Janice: And so it's nice to have that little place where, you know, there's an exchange because our problems are just as valid.
37:28
Janice: They're just different.
37:29
Brenda: And, and it's so hard because, you know, if they're, if they're under 18, you do have a little bit more control over potentially, you know, forcing treatment that kind of thing.
37:40
Brenda: Once they hit that, you know, young adult.
37:44
Brenda: That's where motivational interviewing becomes even more critical because that is your secret weapon of being able to connect with them and start to guide them through their own thinking and their own words into making some change.
37:59
Brenda: Because you're like, well, You know, you can't do it.
38:03
Brenda: You
38:03
Janice: cannot do it.
38:05
Janice: You cannot do it.
38:07
Janice: So my son is doing well, but the scars and, uh, I think trauma, cause a lot of these kids when they do drugs, especially as adults, they put themselves in very dangerous.
38:20
Janice: situations.
38:21
Janice: Oh, yes.
38:22
Janice: And, you know, I lived in an urban environment and there were things that were really harmful that went on that I'll never know, nor do I want to know.
38:31
Janice: But I know that it, it's part of what he has to recover from.
38:36
Janice: And there is a little PTSD with some of these kids who have had it.
38:40
Janice: some really difficult and dangerous times.
38:43
Janice: And that helped me heal, too.
38:45
Janice: And it's, you know, it's just not all flowers and roses when they're, when they're sober.
38:52
Janice: It's a whole other set of challenges.
38:54
Janice: And it's daunting.
38:56
Brenda: Yeah, I'm super glad you mentioned that, about the fact that just because they're no longer ingesting the substances, That does not solve everything.
39:05
Brenda: That solves one element of problematic things.
39:10
Brenda: And like you said, everything else then becomes more raw.
39:13
Brenda: It's like you're ripping that band aid off of a very sensitive wound and now there is no cushion anymore for her.
39:20
Brenda: There's nothing in between the world and that pain.
39:22
Brenda: So it is really important to Because I hear that all the time.
39:26
Brenda: It's like, well, he's been sober for three months.
39:30
Brenda: And he still hasn't gotten a job, or he still hasn't gone back to school, or he still
39:34
Janice: I feel like I could teach a, you know, like, I don't know what to say, but that's really when you need that glip glip that we always talk about.
39:42
Janice: Yes.
39:43
Janice: You so wanna, you're so proud, and you want to engage, and you want, your son is back, and they're nurturing, and suddenly But it's not the same and you have to be even more cautious because all of the things that led them to drinking and drugging, they're all there, they're raw, they're dangling out as, you know, with their kids with no skin almost.
40:10
Janice: And so you have to, just that lip clip, just keep everything so neutral.
40:16
Janice: You know, you see the bird out there, it's a lovely bird, you know, like, whatever.
40:20
Janice: Just don't talk about anything that you really want to talk about.
40:23
Janice: Exactly.
40:25
Brenda: Yes.
40:25
Brenda: I would love to have you share, I'll never forget at our retreat that you went to, which it was so funny when you came because you were like looking at Kathy and me like we were crazy with our little heart pouches.
40:38
Brenda: Again those West
40:40
Janice: It's on my, it's on my, it's on my vision board, which also was very not New York of me to do.
40:47
Janice: It really took off.
40:48
Janice: I was like, I'm really drinking the Kool Aid with this vision board and my pouch is on it.
40:52
Brenda: And your heart pouch is on it.
40:54
Brenda: I love it.
40:55
Brenda: For those of, for those who have not been on a retreat.
40:58
Brenda: You don't know what we're talking about.
40:59
Brenda: So you'll just have to come and then you'll find out what we're talking about.
41:02
Brenda: It's amazing.
41:03
Brenda: But what I would love for you to explain before I let you go is there was a concept that you shared with us that I think you heard from somebody else in our community.
41:11
Brenda: I can't remember where, but.
41:12
Janice: It was Diane.
41:13
Brenda: Oh, yes.
41:15
Brenda: About.
41:16
Brenda: The Peanuts.
41:17
Brenda: Will you tell us the Pass the Peanuts story?
41:20
Janice: I certainly will.
41:21
Janice: First of all, just a shout out to Diana Clark because she's really good.
41:24
Janice: And if you're in the New York area or the Northeast area and you need some kick ass organization, because that was the other thing, because I had a day job that was extremely demanding.
41:38
Janice: I didn't have time to organize when my son finally came home, like an IOP, a sober coach, like all the putting in the underpinnings that came into place.
41:46
Janice: And she was unbelievable.
41:48
Janice: And your session with her, which was a virtual session, uh, was amazing.
41:53
Janice: So I followed up and she was my coach.
41:56
Janice: And when my son came home, he, he was sober, but he was very tricky.
42:04
Janice: Emotionally, and sometimes, and I see a lot of moms on the stream talk about this, they're worried about paranoia.
42:14
Janice: There was a lot of paranoia, a lot of crazy magical thinking, and I didn't know what to do.
42:21
Janice: I thought I was getting my sober son back and we were going to go back to things as normal and the stuff that would come out of his mouth scared the crap out of me.
42:31
Janice: And, but he was, was going to meetings every day, and he was going through all the physical motions of a normal person, but the, but really behaving erratically, uh, emotionally.
42:42
Janice: And I just didn't know what to do with it.
42:44
Janice: And she said to me, I'm going to tell you an airplane story, and it's not the one about the ox oxygen mask.
42:51
Janice: And I said, okay, good, because I've heard that a lot.
42:53
Brenda: We know that one.
42:54
Janice: My oxygen mask.
42:55
Janice: She said, no, this is the one about the stewardess or steward who gets out the cart.
43:04
Janice: The plane is getting turbulent, you're getting a little wordy, they're asking you to put on your seatbelt, the sign is flashing, you're not allowed to go to the bathroom, the plane is bumping up and down, and you've hit a rough air, and out comes the steward with the peanuts and the drinks cart.
43:24
Janice: And then, you watch the steward as the plane is bucketing along.
43:28
Janice: on Pockets of Air, and you're going up and down, and she's calmly, or he's calmly, passing the drinks and the peanuts.
43:37
Janice: And you say to yourself, Okay, like it feels pretty crazy in here, but she's out there passing peanuts, and that makes me feel okay.
43:48
Janice: Because if it was really dangerous, she wouldn't be out here passing peanuts.
43:54
Janice: And somehow that makes you feel calm.
43:57
Janice: She said, during this part of your son's life, you have to be the steward and you have to pass the peanuts.
44:06
Janice: And every time he approaches you with something crazy, you're going to pass the peanuts, metaphorically.
44:12
Janice: You're going to say, oh, that's interesting.
44:16
Janice: I'm having some tea, would you like some tea too?
44:18
Janice: Or, I actually started getting out a deck of cards and playing solitaire.
44:23
Janice: In the, on the kitchen table.
44:25
Janice: And, you know, craziness would go on around me, and I'd just flip the cards.
44:29
Janice: And, you know, my son would come over and look and say, Oh, you missed the jack on the queen.
44:32
Janice: And I'd say, Okay, there it is.
44:33
Janice: I'd just, just pass the peanuts through this, for a year, that's all I did was pass peanuts.
44:39
Janice: But it was, you know, that neutral, calming behavior.
44:43
Janice: Yes.
44:44
Janice: You get involved in the passengers.
44:46
Janice: You're there as a presence.
44:49
Janice: You're there as a sense of normality.
44:51
Janice: And you're there as a calming presence.
44:54
Janice: So that's my past the penis story, which I absolutely love.
44:59
Brenda: We love it too.
45:00
Brenda: And I will put a link to Diana Clark's information in the show notes.
45:03
Brenda: She's with the O'Connor group and they are a fantastic resource.
45:08
Brenda: So I'll make sure and put them in the show notes.
45:10
Brenda: But yeah, you know, if, if that flight attendant came down with her hands waving her hair on fire and she's screaming and she's like, Oh my God.
45:19
Brenda: That would not be helpful.
45:20
Brenda: So I, I remember that quite frequently, even not around my kids, like in traffic and things like that.
45:27
Brenda: It's very helpful.
45:28
Brenda: I'm just going to pass the peanuts.
45:30
Janice: Yep.
45:31
Janice: Yeah.
45:31
Janice: I'm just here to pass the peanuts.
45:33
Janice: That's all.
45:33
Janice: It's, it's like my go to phrase now.
45:35
Janice: Yes.
45:36
Janice: In the face of craziness, I've got to be the pass the peanuts lady.
45:41
Brenda: Yes.
45:41
Brenda: And then that's another reason why the, the community is so great because You can come into the stream and you can be like, Oh my gosh, my son said this.
45:48
Brenda: And my, you know, like it was so scary.
45:51
Brenda: And, and that's where you can express those things.
45:54
Brenda: But in, in front of them, you are the calm flight attendant and and we get to help each other out, you know, in the community and warrior moms.
46:03
Brenda: So our warrior moms group is for.
46:05
Brenda: As for people like you, you know, moms of adult kids, because it is different.
46:09
Brenda: And I'm just wondering, what would you say to brand new mom to this experience who's just starting to peel back the onion and realizing, hmm, a little problem here.
46:21
Brenda: What would,
46:22
Janice: what's the first thing you would tell her?
46:24
Janice: I'd say it's a marathon, not a sprint, and I, I often use running metaphors because, you know, in those moments, every, every moment feels so urgent.
46:36
Janice: Every text or little thing comes out of your mouth, you're weighing, did I say it wrong?
46:41
Janice: Did I do the wrong?
46:41
Janice: And I see this a lot on the stream, like, I said this and it made him, he went out and did that.
46:46
Janice: And it's not about what you, what you're going to say.
46:50
Janice: It's not.
46:51
Janice: It's really, it's not about, you're not causing this.
46:55
Janice: And you know, it's a deep breath, you have to take a deep breath, you have to zoom out, you have to focus on yourself and really understand how to behave in a way that doesn't escalate the situation.
47:11
Janice: Through the stream, you know, I've learned to zoom out a little, look for just the positive, and if not positive, look for neutral.
47:21
Janice: Maybe you don't have a single positive thing to say and I get it some kids you're in this moment So just find the neutral moments.
47:28
Janice: Yeah, and focus on neutral For a while until you can get to a better place And I think that's so important and I, I'm going to kill myself for saying this, but I would say take care of yourself.
47:44
Janice: Like it's, it's, you know, like if you're going to run a marathon, you gotta bring, you gotta eat right, you gotta sleep, you gotta get your rest, you gotta be well, you know, you just have to be in a good place if you're going to run a marathon.
48:00
Janice: And this is a marathon.
48:02
Brenda: It absolutely is.
48:03
Brenda: All right, well, I think now that we have Janice on the self care train, I feel like I have succeeded in life.
48:12
Brenda: And you still have your heart pouch on a vision board.
48:15
Brenda: I think, like, this is a magical moment for me.
48:18
Brenda: Oh, yeah,
48:19
Janice: you've got one New York convert on this side of the
48:23
Brenda: On that side of the country.
48:25
Janice: Yeah.
48:25
Janice: Yes.
48:27
Brenda: Yes.
48:28
Janice: Cause you guys, you know, when you get to woo, cause you call it out, you're like, okay, we're going to get a little woo woo.
48:33
Janice: And I'll be like, oh, you gave me a heads up about it.
48:37
Janice: I got my woo woo guard up, but I'm letting it down little by little.
48:42
Brenda: I love it.
48:43
Brenda: Well, we love having you in the community.
48:45
Brenda: I know you're such a support for the other moms that are in there and we're going to have to change our warrior mom call because you are now taking fiddle lessons.
48:53
Janice: Yeah, it's using a part of my brain that I don't get to use very much and, uh, I, it's cool and I love it.
49:00
Janice: I'm terrible.
49:01
Janice: I make the squeakiest, my poor husband is just ready to pop out a window, but I like it.
49:08
Janice: So I can't, can't go on Tuesdays.
49:10
Brenda: Yes.
49:11
Brenda: Well, we'll, we'll have to resolve that because we, we need all the other moms need you there.
49:15
Brenda: So we will figure that out.
49:17
Brenda: But thank you so much for being willing to share your story.
49:21
Brenda: Thank you, Brenda.
49:22
Brenda: You're welcome.
49:22
Brenda: Bye.
49:23
Brenda: Okay, my friend, if you want the transcript or show notes and resources from this episode, just go to hopestreamcommunity.
49:30
Brenda: org and click on podcast.
49:32
Brenda: That'll take you to all things podcast related, including the full library, a search feature if you're looking for something specific, and also playlists where we have grouped together episodes on things like craft, recovery stories.
49:47
Brenda: solo episodes, siblings.
49:49
Brenda: We even have a start here playlist.
49:51
Brenda: If you're new, those are super helpful.
49:54
Brenda: So be sure to check them out.
49:56
Brenda: I also want to let you know about a free ebook you can download.
49:59
Brenda: If you're feeling anxious and confused about how to approach your child's substance misuse, the book is called worried, sick a compassionate guide for parents of teens and young adults, misusing drugs and alcohol.
50:12
Brenda: And it'll introduce you.
50:13
Brenda: to ways that you can rebuild connection and relationship with your child versus distance and let them hit rock bottom.
50:20
Brenda: It is a game changer.
50:22
Brenda: It's totally free.
50:23
Brenda: Just go to hopestreamcommunity.
50:25
Brenda: org forward slash worried to download that.
50:29
Brenda: You are amazing.
50:31
Brenda: You are such a rock star, a super elite level parent.
50:35
Brenda: It's truly an honor to be here with you.
50:37
Brenda: And please know you are not doing this alone.
50:40
Brenda: You've got this tribe and you will be okay.
50:44
Brenda: You'll make it through this season and when you do, you are going to be stronger and more resilient than you ever thought possible.
50:52
Brenda: I'm sending all my love and might and I'll meet you right back here next week.