Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / What Mount Everest Taught Her About Failure, Fear, and Finding Her Voice: Alison Levine

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What Mount Everest Taught Her About Failure, Fear, and Finding Her Voice: Alison Levine · QUESTION EVERYTHING

0:03
Speaker 1: No one has all the answers, but when we ask
0:05
Speaker 1: the right questions, we get a little closer, closer to truths,
0:11
Speaker 1: closer to each other, even closer to ourselves. I'm journalist
0:16
Speaker 1: Danielle Robe and each week, my guests and I come
0:19
Speaker 1: together to challenge the status quo and our own ways
0:22
Speaker 1: of thinking by daring to ask what if, why not?
0:28
Speaker 2: And who says?
0:30
Speaker 1: So? Come curious, dig deep, and join the conversation. It's
0:35
Speaker 1: time to question everything. Hello, everybody, I hope you're having
0:42
Speaker 1: a fabulous week. I just want to let you know
0:45
Speaker 1: that this is the type of episode that you're going
0:48
Speaker 1: to want to share. And I don't say that to
0:50
Speaker 1: spread the word about the podcast. I say that because
0:53
Speaker 1: it's the kind of episode I wanted to share. It
0:56
Speaker 1: was hard for me to hold on to this recording
0:58
Speaker 1: and not put it out faster. There are so many
1:01
Speaker 1: life lessons and quotes and moments from this interview that matter.
1:08
Speaker 1: Our guest today, Alison Levine, who you are going to
1:11
Speaker 1: hear about and hear from. She's one of the most
1:14
Speaker 1: unbelievable people I've ever interviewed. So I don't want to
1:17
Speaker 1: talk a lot at the top of the show because
1:20
Speaker 1: I want to climb in.
1:24
Speaker 2: Picture.
1:24
Speaker 1: This the first American women's expedition on Mount Everest. They've
1:30
Speaker 1: been climbing for nearly two months.
1:32
Speaker 2: Every step is.
1:34
Speaker 1: A battle, body's aching, the oxygen is thin. Their eyes
1:38
Speaker 1: are on the summit, and then just two hundred and
1:42
Speaker 1: seventy feet from the top of the world, a storm
1:45
Speaker 1: rolls in visibility completely disappears, and someone has to make
1:50
Speaker 1: the call. That someone is Alison Levine.
1:54
Speaker 3: It's so hard to fail so publicly, and I really
1:59
Speaker 3: internalize this for so long.
2:01
Speaker 1: Allison is a mountaineer, a polar explorer, a leadership expert,
2:06
Speaker 1: and a professor at West Point. She's skied across Antarctica
2:10
Speaker 1: and stood at the South Pole. She's climbed the tallest
2:13
Speaker 1: peaks on every single continent. But perhaps her greatest climb
2:18
Speaker 1: wasn't physical. It was the mental mountain of going back.
2:22
Speaker 1: Because eight years after that public failure, she returned to Everest.
2:28
Speaker 1: This time she made it to the summit, but what
2:31
Speaker 1: happened up there surprised her.
2:33
Speaker 3: The summit of the mountain really wasn't the most important thing,
2:36
Speaker 3: and I feel like I learned so much more from
2:39
Speaker 3: that failed experience. In two thousand and two.
2:42
Speaker 1: She realized that the goal isn't just about reaching the top.
2:46
Speaker 1: It's about how we show up, how we endure, how
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Speaker 1: we come back.
2:51
Speaker 3: Backing up is not the same as backing down.
2:55
Speaker 1: She says, you don't have to be the best, the fastest,
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Speaker 1: or the strongest climber. You just have to be the
3:01
Speaker 1: person who's absolutely relentless about putting one foot in front
3:05
Speaker 1: of the other.
3:07
Speaker 2: That feels like an analogy for life.
3:09
Speaker 1: So in this episode, we're circling this question, what does
3:13
Speaker 1: it take to keep going when everything in you and
3:17
Speaker 1: around you says stop? Because, as Alison teaches us, willpower
3:23
Speaker 1: is the most important piece of equipment.
3:26
Speaker 2: You can't buy it. It has to come from your heart.
3:30
Speaker 1: It's time to question everything with Alison Levine. I was
3:37
Speaker 1: so grateful to hear you speak at the AT and
3:40
Speaker 1: T marketing conference months ago, and you're such a dynamic
3:45
Speaker 1: public speaker, but they only really give you like twenty
3:48
Speaker 1: minutes or so, and you didn't share this in your speech,
3:52
Speaker 1: or I at least didn't hear it at the time.
3:54
Speaker 1: You were born with a hole in your heart, and
3:57
Speaker 1: you've had to have three surgeries. You suffer from rainoids, disease,
4:00
Speaker 1: which is a neurological condition that leaves you at extreme
4:04
Speaker 1: risk for frost bite. So some would say that mountaineering
4:08
Speaker 1: seems like a pretty unlikely passion for you, knowing that
4:14
Speaker 1: you have this incredible risk, what drew you to it?
4:18
Speaker 3: It's crazy. I have had three heart surgeries now and
4:21
Speaker 3: then that rainoes does put me at risk for frostbite.
4:24
Speaker 3: So I'll tell you how I got started. I grew
4:27
Speaker 3: up in Phoenix, Arizona, and when I was a kid,
4:30
Speaker 3: I was obsessed with the stories of the early Arctic
4:34
Speaker 3: and Antarctic explorers and the early mountaineers. So I would
4:37
Speaker 3: read these books and I would watch documentary films about Antarctica,
4:41
Speaker 3: the North Pole, the South Pole, these mountaineers going to
4:44
Speaker 3: find these big mountain ranges. So I'd read the books
4:47
Speaker 3: and I would watch the documentaries because it felt like
4:50
Speaker 3: an escape from the extreme summer heat in Phoenix. So
4:55
Speaker 3: I loved any story about really cold places. I watched
5:00
Speaker 3: the films, read the books, never thought I would go
5:03
Speaker 3: to those places because I had those health challenges, and
5:08
Speaker 3: as a kid, I always felt shortness of breath and
5:11
Speaker 3: a pain in my chest, and I had these medical
5:13
Speaker 3: issues growing up, but I grew up in a very
5:16
Speaker 3: tough love family, no whining, no crying, no complaining, so
5:20
Speaker 3: I did not get properly diagnosed until I was seventeen
5:23
Speaker 3: years old because I didn't want to be a complainer
5:26
Speaker 3: when I was a kid. But I lost consciousness when
5:28
Speaker 3: I was seventeen, and the friends that I was with
5:31
Speaker 3: at the time had the good sense to rush me
5:34
Speaker 3: to the emergency room, where I was finally properly diagnosed
5:37
Speaker 3: with this life threatening heart condition. So I had my
5:40
Speaker 3: first surgery and I turned seventeen. That one did not
5:44
Speaker 3: go so well, but I had another one when I
5:46
Speaker 3: turned thirty, and a few months later, this light bulb
5:49
Speaker 3: went on in my head and I thought, wait a minute.
5:51
Speaker 3: If I want to know what it's like to be
5:54
Speaker 3: these explorers going to these remote mountain ranges, then I
5:58
Speaker 3: should go to the mounds instead of just watching films
6:01
Speaker 3: about them. If I want to know what it's like
6:03
Speaker 3: to be Ryan hold Messner and drag a one hundred
6:06
Speaker 3: and fifty pound sled across six hundred miles of Antarctic ice,
6:10
Speaker 3: then I should go to Antarctica instead of just reading
6:13
Speaker 3: about someone else doing it. And if these other guys
6:15
Speaker 3: can do this stuff, you know, why can't I do
6:17
Speaker 3: it too? So I climbed my first mountain when I
6:20
Speaker 3: was thirty two years old, and I'm fifty eight now
6:23
Speaker 3: and still going.
6:24
Speaker 1: So I read that it costs fifty thousand dollars to climb.
6:27
Speaker 1: Everst I didn't know that, so I.
6:29
Speaker 3: Think now it's around forty or so.
6:33
Speaker 2: What made it go down?
6:34
Speaker 3: I think that's about the average cost. I don't think
6:37
Speaker 3: it's gone down. Of course, you can pay fifty or sixty.
6:40
Speaker 3: There's even people that will charge one hundred or two
6:44
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars. So when I was climbing, the cost
6:47
Speaker 3: was about twenty thousand dollars a person. And when I
6:52
Speaker 3: served as the team captain for the first American women's
6:55
Speaker 3: ever STU expedition, and we were so fortunate to have
6:58
Speaker 3: the Ford Motor Company come in and sponsor our trip.
7:01
Speaker 3: So luckily it was all expense paid vacation to Mount Everest.
7:07
Speaker 2: Can you take me through that first expedition?
7:10
Speaker 3: Yes, So that was an expedition that brings up so
7:15
Speaker 3: much emotion in me and I think about it because
7:17
Speaker 3: we were the first team of American women to even
7:20
Speaker 3: try something like this. We were sponsored by Ford, so
7:23
Speaker 3: we had all this publicity. Hundreds of media outlets from
7:27
Speaker 3: all over the world were following our climb, and then
7:30
Speaker 3: we didn't make it. We missed the summit by about
7:36
Speaker 3: two hundred and seventy feet because we got caught in
7:39
Speaker 3: a storm and we lost visibility and we had to
7:43
Speaker 3: turn back. And it was so hard to spend two
7:48
Speaker 3: months on that mountain, be that close to the summit
7:52
Speaker 3: and have to turn back from the goal. But you
7:55
Speaker 3: always want to air on the side of safety and
7:58
Speaker 3: making sure that every single part on the team comes
8:02
Speaker 3: back alive. And it was hard to miss the top
8:05
Speaker 3: by such a short distance. But what made it even
8:08
Speaker 3: more painful was coming back to so much media scrutiny
8:12
Speaker 3: because we were the first men, had all that media
8:15
Speaker 3: coverage before we went to the mountain. Then we had
8:17
Speaker 3: to come back and go to all the same TV
8:21
Speaker 3: shows and talk about this very public failure. And I
8:26
Speaker 3: was even the butt of Jay Leno's opening monologic, which
8:30
Speaker 3: did not feel great. And it's so hard to fail
8:33
Speaker 3: so publicly, and I really internalized this for so long
8:38
Speaker 3: and felt like we let people down, We disappointed people
8:42
Speaker 3: because everyone focused on the failure instead of focusing on
8:45
Speaker 3: the fact that we were the first team of American
8:47
Speaker 3: women to try something like this. It was an altitude
8:50
Speaker 3: record for every single member of the team, but everyone
8:53
Speaker 3: was focused on the failure, and I really internalized that
8:57
Speaker 3: and let that failure eat at me for so many years.
9:00
Speaker 3: And then finally, eight years later, I got up the
9:04
Speaker 3: guts to go back to that mountain and try it again.
9:07
Speaker 3: And I was climbing in honor of a friend of
9:10
Speaker 3: mine named Meg Bartee Owen, who had passed away very
9:14
Speaker 3: unexpectedly and wanted to climb in her honor, so I
9:17
Speaker 3: engraved her name in my ice axe, went back to
9:20
Speaker 3: the mountain, made it to the summit, and realized, reflecting
9:25
Speaker 3: back on that failure from two thousand and two, reaching
9:28
Speaker 3: the summit of the mountain really wasn't the most important thing.
9:31
Speaker 3: And I feel like I learned so much more from
9:34
Speaker 3: that failed experience in two thousand and two, because that
9:37
Speaker 3: is where I learned about my pain threshold, about my
9:40
Speaker 3: risk tolerance. That is where I learned what it felt
9:43
Speaker 3: like to get the living snot kicked out of me
9:46
Speaker 3: high up on that mountain in a storm. And in
9:49
Speaker 3: twenty ten, where I did make it. It didn't feel
9:52
Speaker 3: like this big life changing moment when I got to
9:55
Speaker 3: the summit, because I realized that so much in life
9:58
Speaker 3: is about the struggle and the fight and the failures
10:03
Speaker 3: and how we come back from those failures. And so
10:06
Speaker 3: when I look at that two thousand and two expedition,
10:10
Speaker 3: that's really the one that is the most meaningful to me,
10:14
Speaker 3: even though we didn't make it to the summit.
10:17
Speaker 1: I was reading that Everest is about twenty nine thousand
10:20
Speaker 1: feet high, so to be two hundred and fifty feet
10:24
Speaker 1: short is unbelievable.
10:27
Speaker 3: Especially after two months. You know all the fundraise and
10:31
Speaker 3: you find the sponsors, all the training, putting the team together,
10:36
Speaker 3: getting the logistics together, two months of fighting your way
10:39
Speaker 3: on that mountain, and then you miss it by that much.
10:42
Speaker 1: I'm sure there were a lot of lessons in that.
10:45
Speaker 1: I'm trying to sort of synthesize what you said.
10:48
Speaker 2: Was it that you now.
10:50
Speaker 1: Lean into the struggle, that you feel like it's more
10:55
Speaker 1: about dancing in the rain, so to speak, than it
10:58
Speaker 1: is about getting to the moment that you build up
11:01
Speaker 1: in your head. What did you leave that moment thinking about, Well.
11:05
Speaker 3: That moment when I made it to the summit. There
11:07
Speaker 3: were so many emotions going through my head. And I
11:11
Speaker 3: used to be very much one of those go big
11:15
Speaker 3: or go home, people, Right, We hear that mantra all
11:17
Speaker 3: the time. Well, when I got to the summit, I
11:20
Speaker 3: started thinking about all of the people I know that
11:23
Speaker 3: went big in the mountains and didn't go home, and
11:30
Speaker 3: that really just it felt like such a piercing jolt
11:35
Speaker 3: to my heart at that moment, and that's when I
11:38
Speaker 3: realized that we need to change that mantra from go
11:42
Speaker 3: big or go home to go big and go home. Right.
11:47
Speaker 3: So when I was at the top of the mountain,
11:48
Speaker 3: all I was thinking about was I've got to get
11:51
Speaker 3: back home safely, go big and go home. Do the
11:54
Speaker 3: big things, set the crazy goals, take the big risks,
12:00
Speaker 3: get outside of your comfort zone. But remember, at the
12:02
Speaker 3: end of the day, the most important thing is coming
12:06
Speaker 3: back to the people that you love and the people
12:09
Speaker 3: that you care about and the people that care about you.
12:12
Speaker 3: And granted, for most people watching this or listening, your
12:16
Speaker 3: life is not at risk every day. But it's similar
12:20
Speaker 3: to climbing a big mountain in terms of the stress
12:24
Speaker 3: we feel every day to achieve big things and to
12:27
Speaker 3: give it your all and your career in your life.
12:30
Speaker 3: Like I say, take the big risk, do the big things,
12:32
Speaker 3: but remember you've got to come home at the end
12:35
Speaker 3: of the day. You have to have energy left in
12:38
Speaker 3: you for the people that are important to you. You
12:40
Speaker 3: can't give everything to your dream because you have to
12:45
Speaker 3: have something for the people. Right. So that's really what
12:49
Speaker 3: I was thinking about when I got to the summit,
12:50
Speaker 3: was I need to get back down alive, and that's
12:53
Speaker 3: the most important thing, right, Go big and go home.
12:56
Speaker 3: And I also really thought about the peopleeople that paved
13:00
Speaker 3: the way before me, that made it possible for people
13:04
Speaker 3: like me to climb big mountains. And so I started
13:06
Speaker 3: thinking back to that failure and about how when we
13:11
Speaker 3: try something really hard and we fail or we don't
13:15
Speaker 3: have the exact outcome that we wanted at the time,
13:19
Speaker 3: we are still giving a gift to others because we
13:23
Speaker 3: are paving the way for other people to climb that mountain,
13:28
Speaker 3: for other people to achieve really big things because they
13:32
Speaker 3: see what we've done and they can go as far
13:35
Speaker 3: as we did and then hopefully go further and achieve
13:38
Speaker 3: even more. And so we have to embrace our failures
13:43
Speaker 3: and even be proud of them and realize that every
13:46
Speaker 3: time we fail, we're laying another stepping stone for somebody
13:50
Speaker 3: else to achieve something really big.
13:52
Speaker 1: I've heard you talk about this idea before, and it's
13:57
Speaker 1: so ego less. I don't think think that most people
14:02
Speaker 1: could frame.
14:02
Speaker 2: Failure that way.
14:03
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm at the point where I
14:05
Speaker 1: could frame failure that way. Like I want my dream
14:09
Speaker 1: so badly, the idea of not getting there and just
14:13
Speaker 1: paving the way for somebody else to feels absolutely soul crushing.
14:19
Speaker 2: How did you get your mind and your heart there?
14:22
Speaker 3: Because failure is just one thing that happens to you
14:26
Speaker 3: at one point in time. That's the way I look
14:28
Speaker 3: at it. It doesn't define you, and you just use
14:33
Speaker 3: that failure and come back from it better the next
14:36
Speaker 3: time around. I really internalize that failure in two thousand
14:39
Speaker 3: and two because it was so public, right, And so
14:43
Speaker 3: I will also quote the great philosopher Pitbull, who says,
14:50
Speaker 3: I do not know the word lose. I only know
14:53
Speaker 3: the word learn, And so I just have to look
14:57
Speaker 3: at those failures as an opportunity to learn, so I
15:01
Speaker 3: can come back next time and be even better. And
15:04
Speaker 3: when I think about the incredible climbers that have paved
15:08
Speaker 3: the way in the sport. I think about Sir Edmund
15:12
Speaker 3: Hillary and Tenzing Norgay. Tensing Norgay and Sir Edmund Hillary
15:16
Speaker 3: were the first people to stand on top of Mount
15:18
Speaker 3: Everst in nineteen fifty three. It was Tensing Norgay's seventh
15:22
Speaker 3: attempt on the mountain, and I thought, you know what,
15:25
Speaker 3: if that guy can be that persistent and keep going
15:29
Speaker 3: back and trying again and again and again, certainly I
15:32
Speaker 3: can go back and try again. And the other thing
15:35
Speaker 3: I really had to understand is that you do not
15:40
Speaker 3: have to be the best, fastest, strongest climber out there
15:45
Speaker 3: on the trails every day. You just have to be
15:47
Speaker 3: the person who's absolutely relentless about putting one foot in
15:51
Speaker 3: front of the other. That is who gets to the
15:53
Speaker 3: top of the mountain. It's the people that will not
15:56
Speaker 3: quit when it feels incredibly hard, when it feels incredibly uncomfortable,
16:01
Speaker 3: and it's the people who say, this feels really bad
16:06
Speaker 3: right now, but I think I can take one more step.
16:09
Speaker 3: And then after you take that one step, hey wait,
16:11
Speaker 3: I could take one more. Then you take that step
16:14
Speaker 3: and then you say, well, wait, I could take one
16:17
Speaker 3: more and then before you know it, you find yourself episummit,
16:20
Speaker 3: and that's who gets there. It's the people that will
16:22
Speaker 3: not quit when it feels really hard. And I would
16:25
Speaker 3: see these guys, so I'm five three and a half.
16:28
Speaker 3: I would see these tall guys, six foot two, six
16:33
Speaker 3: foot four, long legs, big long, strong bodies blowing past
16:38
Speaker 3: me on the trail, and I would feel so discouraged
16:41
Speaker 3: and think, maybe this isn't for me, maybe I don't
16:44
Speaker 3: belong here. And then I realize I don't have to
16:46
Speaker 3: be as fast as they are. Right, they can get
16:48
Speaker 3: twice as far as I can with every step. I
16:51
Speaker 3: don't have to keep up with them. I don't have
16:53
Speaker 3: to keep their pace. I have to go my pace,
16:57
Speaker 3: and I have to do this in my own style.
17:00
Speaker 3: And when you get to the top of Mount Everest,
17:02
Speaker 3: nobody says how fast did you go? How many steps
17:05
Speaker 3: did it take you. They just know that you persevered
17:07
Speaker 3: and you made it. And that's really the most important thing.
17:11
Speaker 1: I want to talk about leadership in extreme environments because
17:15
Speaker 1: you really talk about teamwork a lot in your book
17:17
Speaker 1: and in the.
17:18
Speaker 2: Podcasts that you do.
17:20
Speaker 1: You said that determination is key, but willpower is the
17:24
Speaker 1: most essential piece of equipment for survival. How did you
17:28
Speaker 1: learn to harness willpower as a leadership skill?
17:31
Speaker 3: It's so true. I feel like willpower is the most
17:33
Speaker 3: important piece of equipment. And I got that from a
17:36
Speaker 3: quote from the first woman whoever climbed Mount Everest, Junko
17:41
Speaker 3: Taiba from Japan, and she had this quote about technique
17:45
Speaker 3: and ability alone will not get you to the top.
17:47
Speaker 3: It is willpower that is the most important thing, and
17:50
Speaker 3: nobody can give it to you. You cannot buy it.
17:53
Speaker 3: It has to come from your heart.
17:54
Speaker 2: Quick question.
17:55
Speaker 1: When you set out to do your first expedition, because
17:58
Speaker 1: you have such a vast knowledge of climbers, did you
18:01
Speaker 1: deep dive into research of all these other climbers or
18:05
Speaker 1: did you accumulate this knowledge over time.
18:08
Speaker 3: I did do a deep dive, just because I've been
18:10
Speaker 3: reading about these climbers from the time i was a kid,
18:13
Speaker 3: you know, because I loved the story. So I would
18:15
Speaker 3: read all about them, and I would read books about
18:19
Speaker 3: these women. Arlene Blum is a female climber who has
18:22
Speaker 3: really inspired me over the years. She was the first
18:24
Speaker 3: person to put together an all female expedition to climb
18:27
Speaker 3: in eight thousand meter peaks they climbed Anna Pirna, so
18:31
Speaker 3: I learned a lot about her from her expeditions and
18:35
Speaker 3: reading about Junko Taibe, this teeny tiny Japanese woman that
18:39
Speaker 3: was buried in an avalanche during her climb and it
18:42
Speaker 3: took I think five or six people to dig her
18:44
Speaker 3: out and she still went on to summit that mountain.
18:48
Speaker 3: It's incredible. She's so inspiring. So for me, I just
18:51
Speaker 3: realized that when you feel that will power, that strength
18:57
Speaker 3: is contageous to the people around you. And so sometimes
19:01
Speaker 3: even when you're feeling like absolute hell, if people see
19:06
Speaker 3: that you are still willing to keep going when you
19:08
Speaker 3: feel like crap, they will still keep going when they
19:12
Speaker 3: feel like crap, and they're like, yes, we are a team,
19:14
Speaker 3: you know, And as a leader, you can never expect
19:17
Speaker 3: the people on your team to be willing to endure
19:20
Speaker 3: anything that you are not willing to endure. So that
19:24
Speaker 3: willpower drawing on that, I do feel like that is contagious.
19:27
Speaker 3: But I want to share a story with you about
19:32
Speaker 3: a great leadership lesson that has to do with willpower
19:34
Speaker 3: and enduring discomfort that I learned from one of my mentors,
19:40
Speaker 3: somebody I just admire and respect so much. His name
19:43
Speaker 3: is bern tehas an incredibly accomplished climber. I don't even
19:47
Speaker 3: know how many times he's completed the Seven Summits, now
19:50
Speaker 3: climbing the highest peak on every continent. He did the
19:52
Speaker 3: first winter ascent of Denali in Alaska, which this guy
19:56
Speaker 3: is a badass climber. I was climbing the highest peak
20:00
Speaker 3: in Europe with him, Mount Elbros. And I was the
20:03
Speaker 3: only woman on the team. I'm the climb with these big,
20:06
Speaker 3: strong men. My quads were screaming. I had a horrible
20:09
Speaker 3: altitude headache. We stopped for a break and Verne said,
20:13
Speaker 3: how's everybody doing? Everyone? You know, everyone's feeling okay, And
20:16
Speaker 3: all these guys chimed in, feeling great, feeling strong. Wooo,
20:20
Speaker 3: let's go. And I'm thinking, why are my quads screaming
20:25
Speaker 3: at me? Why is my head screaming at me? Why
20:27
Speaker 3: do I feel like I'm in a vomit from the altitude?
20:30
Speaker 3: What is wrong with me? Maybe this isn't the sport
20:32
Speaker 3: for me, Maybe I don't belong here, maybe I'm just
20:35
Speaker 3: not good enough. Well, so as everyone's saying feeling good,
20:38
Speaker 3: feeling good, then Verne says, okay, guess it's only me
20:43
Speaker 3: whose squads are screaming. Guess it's only me who has
20:45
Speaker 3: the altitude headache. And all of a sudden I felt
20:48
Speaker 3: if vern Tahas, this incredible climber, is feeling pain on
20:52
Speaker 3: this climb, and it's okay that I'm feeling it too.
20:56
Speaker 3: This is how I'm supposed to feel. It's supposed to
20:58
Speaker 3: be uncomfortable. And when everybody else was chiming in with
21:02
Speaker 3: how great they felt and how easy this was, that
21:06
Speaker 3: put doubt in my head about whether or not this
21:10
Speaker 3: was the sport for me and whether or not I
21:11
Speaker 3: could do it. And as soon as Verne said, oh yeah, well,
21:14
Speaker 3: I guess it's only me that's feeling the pain. When
21:17
Speaker 3: a leader can acknowledge that, when a leader can acknowledge
21:22
Speaker 3: the discomfort and the challenge and maybe feeling uncertain about
21:29
Speaker 3: what's going on, I think that inspires the team because
21:34
Speaker 3: they know that person is human, and they also know
21:37
Speaker 3: there's nothing wrong with them for feeling uncertain or feeling uncomfortable,
21:42
Speaker 3: and it's okay to say, look, we don't have perfect
21:44
Speaker 3: visibility here. That's okay, We're going to put one foot
21:48
Speaker 3: in front of the other and we're going to get
21:49
Speaker 3: to the top of the mountain as a team. And
21:51
Speaker 3: I think that that willpower that you show in times
21:56
Speaker 3: of uncertainty is contagious to the people around you.
22:00
Speaker 1: What are the mental practices that you've built up to
22:03
Speaker 1: push through those really tough moments. The resilience that you're
22:07
Speaker 1: talking about, Well.
22:08
Speaker 3: I'll tell you a lot of it has to do
22:11
Speaker 3: with how I manage fear, because that's a part of
22:14
Speaker 3: it too, is managing fear. So obviously, on a mountain,
22:18
Speaker 3: there's fear of your health. You know, you could get
22:22
Speaker 3: altitude segments, you could get cerebral edema or pulmonary demon
22:25
Speaker 3: These things could kill you. Falling into a crevass could
22:28
Speaker 3: kill you. An avalanche could kill you. Just sliding off
22:31
Speaker 3: the mountain could kill you. There's all these things that
22:33
Speaker 3: could kill you. But in our everyday lives, there's fear
22:37
Speaker 3: about taking risks too. And granted, like I said, these
22:41
Speaker 3: risks aren't going to kill you, but there's a lot
22:44
Speaker 3: on the line every single day, right our job, our reputation,
22:50
Speaker 3: our companies, you know, performance are you know, hitting revenue goals,
22:55
Speaker 3: market share goals. We all have things we're tasked with
22:59
Speaker 3: achieving it can create a lot of stress, and the
23:03
Speaker 3: unknown can produce a lot of fear. And there is
23:08
Speaker 3: this heart of Mount Everest. If people want to google this,
23:12
Speaker 3: it's the Kumboo Ice Fall. Google the Kumboo Ice Fall
23:16
Speaker 3: and you will see one of the scariest parts of
23:19
Speaker 3: climbing Mount Everest. And you're basically walking over these crevasses
23:25
Speaker 3: that's been hundreds of feet down. You could fall hundreds
23:28
Speaker 3: of feet to your death. You're walking over these rickety
23:31
Speaker 3: aluminum ladders trying to get across the open crevass from
23:35
Speaker 3: one side of the route to the other. It's very scary.
23:38
Speaker 3: And you go through the Kumboo Ice Fall multiple times
23:42
Speaker 3: and I thought, Okay, well it's scary the first time,
23:46
Speaker 3: maybe the next time I go through it won't be scary. No,
23:49
Speaker 3: it was scary the second time, and the third time,
23:51
Speaker 3: and the fourth time. It was scary for me every
23:54
Speaker 3: single time I went through the kumbo Ice Fall. And
23:57
Speaker 3: I just had to learn to embrace this mind set
24:01
Speaker 3: that you can be scared and brave at the same time.
24:06
Speaker 3: That is really what I had to embrace. Fear is
24:09
Speaker 3: a normal human emotion. You should allow yourself to feel
24:13
Speaker 3: that fear, just don't let it stop you in your tracks. Right,
24:18
Speaker 3: You can be scared and keep going.
24:20
Speaker 2: It's the only way.
24:21
Speaker 3: It is the only way.
24:23
Speaker 2: Georgia O'Keefe has this quote.
24:25
Speaker 1: She once said, I've been absolutely terrified every moment in
24:27
Speaker 1: my life, and I've never let it keep me from
24:29
Speaker 1: doing a single thing I've wanted to do. So when
24:32
Speaker 1: you say that, fear is okay, even maybe helpful almost,
24:37
Speaker 1: but complacency is what will kill you. What is the
24:41
Speaker 1: most terrified you've ever felt by a choice of your own?
24:44
Speaker 3: Making the most terrified I've ever felt of a choice
24:48
Speaker 3: outside of the mountains? You mean?
24:50
Speaker 2: Yeah?
24:51
Speaker 3: You know, I've been on the speaking circuit for sixteen
24:53
Speaker 3: years and I had the same agent that represented me
24:57
Speaker 3: for sixteen years, and I'm being the most incredible year
25:01
Speaker 3: this year. The month of October twenty twenty four was
25:04
Speaker 3: an all time record year for me business wise, and
25:07
Speaker 3: I just left them, and I'm thinking, what am I doing?
25:11
Speaker 3: You know, I'm having such a great run, But I
25:14
Speaker 3: got recruited away by CIA and I just signed with them,
25:18
Speaker 3: and I'm still going to be doing speaking, which I love,
25:20
Speaker 3: but I'm pursuing this bucket list goal that I've had
25:24
Speaker 3: for a number of years, which is to write and
25:27
Speaker 3: perform a one woman show and take it on tour
25:31
Speaker 3: all over the country and try to do a national
25:33
Speaker 3: tour of this one woman show. So I'm so scared
25:36
Speaker 3: because I had such a good career in this speaking
25:38
Speaker 3: industry and this is something completely different because the stories
25:42
Speaker 3: that I want to tell from the stage during my
25:44
Speaker 3: one woman show involved my expeditions, but they're also about
25:48
Speaker 3: just a difficult childhood and dealing with a parent who's
25:52
Speaker 3: extremely mentally ill and having to feel like the parent
25:56
Speaker 3: my whole life, you know, my whole childhood I felt
25:58
Speaker 3: like a parent, and sharing some of the more really
26:01
Speaker 3: vulnerable stories and how my childhood affected sort of my
26:07
Speaker 3: mentality in the mountains because when I went to the
26:10
Speaker 3: mountains and I would just be an a tent by
26:12
Speaker 3: myself on the side of a mountain, I felt very alone,
26:17
Speaker 3: but I could rationalize it, will I feel alone because
26:21
Speaker 3: I'm by myself on the side of a mountain and
26:23
Speaker 3: a tent. I'm doing this climb solo, so that's why
26:26
Speaker 3: I feel alone. But when I was in my house
26:28
Speaker 3: growing up, I also felt very, very alone, but I
26:31
Speaker 3: couldn't rationalize it because I'm thinking, there's other people in
26:34
Speaker 3: this house, but why do I feel like there's no
26:37
Speaker 3: one looking out for me? And so I want to
26:40
Speaker 3: tell the more personal side of my story in this
26:43
Speaker 3: one woman's show, and I'm so scared to do it
26:45
Speaker 3: because it's really coming from a very vulnerable place. But
26:49
Speaker 3: I do have this dream to create this show and
26:51
Speaker 3: take it on the road, and so I'm really scared
26:53
Speaker 3: about that.
26:54
Speaker 1: As a little plug, I don't think I've ever seen
26:57
Speaker 1: such a dynamic or engaging public safe speaker as I
27:01
Speaker 1: did you, and so I can only imagine how great
27:04
Speaker 1: the one woman show is. It's hard to pull off
27:07
Speaker 1: a one woman show, but you totally have the charisma
27:09
Speaker 1: and stage presence and all of it.
27:12
Speaker 3: I want that message about go big and go home
27:15
Speaker 3: to be a message in that show because I want
27:19
Speaker 3: people to take risks and try things and push themselves.
27:21
Speaker 3: But I want them to remember, at the end of
27:23
Speaker 3: the day, human connection is the most important thing, and
27:29
Speaker 3: we can have so much impact on people around us
27:32
Speaker 3: by just being an encourager and being the person that
27:36
Speaker 3: can share a few words of support with somebody who's struggling.
27:40
Speaker 2: Well, that voice that you're listening to now.
27:43
Speaker 1: It seems like it's been pretty loud ever since you
27:46
Speaker 1: were a kid, even if you didn't recognize it was
27:48
Speaker 1: a voice when you were reading these books about mountaineering
27:52
Speaker 1: or climbing. I'm curious about the opposite voice, the one
27:55
Speaker 1: that's in your head saying I'm tired, I'm cold, I'm afraid.
27:59
Speaker 1: I think everybody has the voice that says I'm tired,
28:02
Speaker 1: i'm cold, I'm afraid, regardless of what industry you're in.
28:06
Speaker 1: How did you learn to override that voice and listen
28:09
Speaker 1: to the one that is beating in your heart.
28:11
Speaker 3: That voice that tells you I'm tired, I'm cold, and
28:15
Speaker 3: afraid is the same voice that has to tell you
28:20
Speaker 3: I know you're tired and cold and afraid, but you
28:22
Speaker 3: can take one more step. You just have to train
28:26
Speaker 3: that voice to talk to you differently. That's the thing is, yes,
28:30
Speaker 3: I'm tired, cold, and afraid. I think it's so important
28:32
Speaker 3: to acknowledge those feelings because, by the way, when I'm
28:39
Speaker 3: standing in front of a massive crevasse with a rickety
28:42
Speaker 3: ladder across it that I have to cross, where if
28:45
Speaker 3: I fell in it, it could kill me. When I'm
28:47
Speaker 3: standing at the base of that ladder about to cross it,
28:49
Speaker 3: and I'm feeling fear and somebody says, don't be scared.
28:54
Speaker 3: This does not help me at all. When I'm feeling
28:57
Speaker 3: fear and someone just says don't be scared, no, that
29:00
Speaker 3: feels dismissive to me.
29:02
Speaker 1: It's like when you're mad and someone says, relax or
29:04
Speaker 1: calm down.
29:05
Speaker 3: Oh great, now I'm not scared anymore, Thank you so much.
29:08
Speaker 3: I'm all good. No, that don't be scared doesn't help me.
29:11
Speaker 3: I have to remember fear is a tool that I
29:15
Speaker 3: use to propel me forward. Fear keeps me awake, alert,
29:21
Speaker 3: aware of everything going on around me. And I feel
29:23
Speaker 3: like if you're in an intimidating situation, a scary situation,
29:28
Speaker 3: a situation that makes you uncomfortable, that fear can actually
29:33
Speaker 3: help you. And for most people, if we had to
29:37
Speaker 3: put our emotions in a bucket, in a positive emotion
29:41
Speaker 3: bucket or negative emotion bucket, I think most people would
29:45
Speaker 3: put fear in the negative emotion bucket. They think it's negative.
29:48
Speaker 3: And I've just really reframed how I think about fear,
29:52
Speaker 3: and I think fear is the thing that's going to
29:55
Speaker 3: keep me alive. Fear is the thing that reminds me
29:59
Speaker 3: that I'm human and that I'm feeling all the things
30:02
Speaker 3: I'm supposed to be feeling. But that fear doesn't have
30:06
Speaker 3: to stop me from moving forward. So when that voice says, mm,
30:11
Speaker 3: this is scary, I don't know. I just trained that
30:14
Speaker 3: voice to say, but you know what, one more step.
30:17
Speaker 3: And that's because on one of the very first mountains
30:20
Speaker 3: I ever climbed, I felt like I needed to turn
30:24
Speaker 3: around because I felt like I had this altitude headache.
30:28
Speaker 3: I felt like I was gonna vomit in this mountain.
30:31
Speaker 3: By the way, was Kellimanjaro, the first mountain I ever
30:34
Speaker 3: went to. How are we? A lot of people watching
30:36
Speaker 3: this have been to Kelimanjaro. Thousands and thousands of people
30:39
Speaker 3: climb it every year. It's the highest peak on the
30:42
Speaker 3: continent of Africa, so it's one of the seventh summits.
30:45
Speaker 3: It's the easiest one. So go to Mount Kelimanjaro on
30:48
Speaker 3: summit day. Altitude headache, feeling sick to my stomach. Oh no,
30:51
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to turn around and go down. I'm
30:53
Speaker 3: definitely going down. Man, what a bummer. Before I go down,
30:56
Speaker 3: I'm gonna take which is a couple more steps, one
30:59
Speaker 3: or two more steps, then I'm gonna turn around. So
31:01
Speaker 3: take my one or two more steps. Okay, still feel horrible.
31:05
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go down, but let's take a couple more steps.
31:08
Speaker 3: More steps. Still feel like absolute shit. I know I'm
31:11
Speaker 3: not gonna make it. I'm gonna have to turn back
31:13
Speaker 3: because I feel terrible, but just a couple more steps. Well,
31:16
Speaker 3: before I knew it, I was on the summita Mount
31:19
Speaker 3: kelliman Jarol, and so I reflect back on that experience,
31:25
Speaker 3: and I knew that on any mountain after that when
31:28
Speaker 3: I felt like I'm tired, I'm cold, I can't do this,
31:31
Speaker 3: I feel sick. Wait a minute, I felt like that
31:34
Speaker 3: before and I kept going then. And since I did
31:38
Speaker 3: it before, I know I can do it now. So
31:42
Speaker 3: you just need that one experience to push through that,
31:46
Speaker 3: and then you know you can train that voice in
31:48
Speaker 3: your head that says, uh uh, this is too much
31:51
Speaker 3: for you to say. It feels like too much for you,
31:55
Speaker 3: but it doesn't mean that you can't keep going. So
31:58
Speaker 3: that's how I trained that voice, is looking back on
32:02
Speaker 3: an experience from the past and thinking I felt like
32:04
Speaker 3: this before, and I did it, I could do it
32:06
Speaker 3: again now.
32:07
Speaker 1: And it's the idea I learned from a child psychologist.
32:11
Speaker 1: I asked her, how do you create and foster a
32:13
Speaker 1: confident child? And she said, competence equals confidence doing something
32:18
Speaker 1: and so recognizing that you've done it before, that you've
32:21
Speaker 1: felt that way before. What does it mean to climb
32:24
Speaker 1: like a woman? You said, you're five three and a half.
32:26
Speaker 1: There are physiological differences. I've heard you talk about sort
32:30
Speaker 1: of making trades with some of the guys. When you climb,
32:34
Speaker 1: you'll offer to help them at base camp and they'll
32:37
Speaker 1: help carry some of the gear.
32:38
Speaker 2: How have you sort of negotiated all of this?
32:41
Speaker 3: Yes, it was an expedition I did where it was
32:45
Speaker 3: a six hundred mile ski traverse across Antarctica from the
32:49
Speaker 3: edge of the continent to the South Pole. I trained
32:53
Speaker 3: as hard as I could possibly train. I read all
32:56
Speaker 3: the stories about the Antarctic explorers. I did the research.
32:59
Speaker 3: I did everything I was supposed to do to prepare
33:02
Speaker 3: for this expedition. When it came down to it, I
33:05
Speaker 3: could not keep up with my taller, stronger teammates. So
33:11
Speaker 3: you're skiing six hundred miles across Antarctica with a one
33:15
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty pounds sled that's harnessed to your waist,
33:18
Speaker 3: still sled with all your gear and supplies, this has
33:21
Speaker 3: harness to your waist. For me, at five three and
33:24
Speaker 3: a half one hundred and ten pounds trying to drag
33:28
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty pounds sled, I could not do
33:32
Speaker 3: that as quickly or as efficiently as my teammates, who
33:35
Speaker 3: were six foot four two hundred and thirty pounds a
33:39
Speaker 3: foot taller than me and twice my weight. The law
33:43
Speaker 3: of physics dictates that people that are that size can
33:47
Speaker 3: drag one hundred and fifty pounds sled a lot more
33:50
Speaker 3: quickly and officially than somebody who is my size, And
33:52
Speaker 3: no amount of determination, will power, mindset nothing was going
33:58
Speaker 3: to change the fact that I could not keep up
34:02
Speaker 3: with these guys with their long legs right on the skis,
34:05
Speaker 3: going so much further than I could with every step,
34:09
Speaker 3: and there was nothing I could do to change that. Well,
34:13
Speaker 3: my twice my sized teammates recognized that I was struggling
34:17
Speaker 3: with the weight of my sled, and they actually offered
34:19
Speaker 3: to take some weight out of my sled, now making
34:23
Speaker 3: their sleds heavier, making their job harder in order to
34:28
Speaker 3: help me their teammate. And that meant so much to
34:31
Speaker 3: me that they were willing to do that. So of
34:32
Speaker 3: course I immediately started thinking, what am I going to do
34:36
Speaker 3: to pay these guys back. Well, what I found was
34:39
Speaker 3: that these tall guys, at the end of the day,
34:42
Speaker 3: so you're skiing for twelve to fifteen hours, you are
34:46
Speaker 3: absolutely exhausted dragging the sled. You pitch your tint. Then
34:49
Speaker 3: you have to build a snow barricade around your tent
34:52
Speaker 3: to protect it from the elements. And what I noticed
34:56
Speaker 3: was these tall guys they were struggling to you make
35:00
Speaker 3: the snow barricade because you use a very short snow shovel.
35:04
Speaker 3: So these guys were struggling and wrenching their backs, bending
35:09
Speaker 3: over trying to build the snow barricades. Well, at five
35:13
Speaker 3: foot three and a half, I am closer to the ground.
35:17
Speaker 3: I can use a short snow shovel a lot more
35:20
Speaker 3: easily than these tall guys. So I then became the
35:23
Speaker 3: person who made the snow barricades, and I shoveled the snow,
35:26
Speaker 3: and I made the ice bricks for them and became
35:29
Speaker 3: the barricade maker. And it was a way that I
35:31
Speaker 3: could play to my strength and found that this was
35:34
Speaker 3: a way I could contribute, and it really changed my
35:38
Speaker 3: mindset for the trip, because initially I thought I am
35:41
Speaker 3: a horrible teammate because I am not as physically strong
35:43
Speaker 3: as these guys. I have nothing to offer. I am
35:46
Speaker 3: not a contributor. I am not a valuable asset to
35:50
Speaker 3: this team. But when I stopped trying to compare myself
35:54
Speaker 3: to areas where they were strong, and I focused on
35:58
Speaker 3: my strength, I found it area where my size, my
36:02
Speaker 3: small size, was actually an asset and not a liability.
36:06
Speaker 3: My small size was a strength. And it took me
36:11
Speaker 3: a while to discover that. But once I started building
36:13
Speaker 3: the barricades, I felt like I was contributing. I realized
36:16
Speaker 3: that I was a valuable asset to this team, and
36:19
Speaker 3: it was such a great lesson because we have to
36:22
Speaker 3: realize we all have an area where we can shine.
36:26
Speaker 1: I've heard you say look for teammates with big egos,
36:30
Speaker 1: and when you're making progress, turn around and change direction.
36:34
Speaker 1: Hearing those both of them, most people would say the
36:38
Speaker 1: exact opposite. Why when you're making progress turn around and
36:43
Speaker 1: change direction? And why look for teammates with big egos.
36:46
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm gonna start with the teammates with big egos.
36:49
Speaker 3: And this is something I learned from Coach K Mike Rzewski,
36:53
Speaker 3: who wrote the ford for my books. So for anyone
36:55
Speaker 3: listening who's not familiar with Coach K, he's the former
36:58
Speaker 3: head men's basketball coach at Duke University and the winning
37:02
Speaker 3: is coach in the history of Division one men's college basketball.
37:06
Speaker 3: I was fortunate enough to serve on the board of
37:09
Speaker 3: the Coach K Center on Leadership and Ethics for a
37:11
Speaker 3: number of years, so I got to interact with Coach
37:13
Speaker 3: K a bit. And I remember this one meeting our
37:18
Speaker 3: board had with him when he had just come back
37:21
Speaker 3: from coaching the US national team. They won a gold
37:24
Speaker 3: medal in the Olympics. They just come back and he
37:27
Speaker 3: was talking about what he looks for when he's recruiting
37:29
Speaker 3: a team, and he said one of the things that
37:32
Speaker 3: he looks for is ego. And I thought, well, of course,
37:35
Speaker 3: because you read those guys out right, you look for
37:38
Speaker 3: that and then get rid of those guys. And he
37:41
Speaker 3: said no, he said, you want ego, and I thought
37:45
Speaker 3: that doesn't make any sense. Come on. He went on
37:48
Speaker 3: to explain it and then it made a lot of sense.
37:51
Speaker 3: He said that when he's recruiting a team, there's two
37:53
Speaker 3: kinds of ego that he looks for. The first is
37:56
Speaker 3: what he calls performance ego. He said, I want people
37:59
Speaker 3: who are good and who know that they're good. He said,
38:02
Speaker 3: I don't want Lebron James to come out onto the
38:05
Speaker 3: court and be a wis. I need him to be
38:08
Speaker 3: Lebron James with all of the Lebron James confidence that
38:12
Speaker 3: goes with him. And I thought, okay, that actually does
38:14
Speaker 3: make sense, because I definitely don't want to be climbing
38:17
Speaker 3: Mount Everest with a bunch of teammates who are thinking,
38:20
Speaker 3: I don't really know about this. You know this mountain
38:22
Speaker 3: looks really high. You want teammates who are like, yeah,
38:26
Speaker 3: we're gonna do this. You know we've got this. So
38:28
Speaker 3: that's performance ego. That's the first kind of ego that
38:31
Speaker 3: Coach K looks for. The other kind of ego that
38:34
Speaker 3: he looks for is what he calls team ego. And
38:37
Speaker 3: he said, I want people on my team who are
38:40
Speaker 3: going to be proud to be a part of something
38:44
Speaker 3: that collectively feels more important than the individual alone. Right,
38:49
Speaker 3: So name on the front of the uniform. Tamusa is
38:53
Speaker 3: more important than the name on the back of the uniform.
38:56
Speaker 3: And that made sense to me too, because what I
38:59
Speaker 3: was recruiting for the first American women's ever sexpedition, I
39:03
Speaker 3: wanted women who were going to be proud to be
39:05
Speaker 3: a part of the first American women's ever sexpedition, where
39:09
Speaker 3: the American flag on their sleeve, you know. I wanted
39:13
Speaker 3: that sense a yes, we're a team and we're doing this.
39:16
Speaker 3: So that's where I learned about ego was from Coach
39:19
Speaker 3: k and I thought, this actually does make sense. And
39:22
Speaker 3: then what you asked about having to turn around and
39:26
Speaker 3: change direction when you're making progress, and this goes back
39:30
Speaker 3: to the process of climbing Mount Everest. You start at
39:34
Speaker 3: base camp, and then you go up to Camp one,
39:36
Speaker 3: and you come back down, and then you go up
39:38
Speaker 3: higher and you come back down, and you know that
39:42
Speaker 3: you need to be going this way to get to
39:45
Speaker 3: the top of the mountain, but you're spending a heck
39:48
Speaker 3: of a lot of time climbing down the mountain back
39:51
Speaker 3: down to base camp to acclimatize, and a lot of
39:55
Speaker 3: people get very frustrated with that process because they feel
39:59
Speaker 3: like they're losing ground. And they put so much effort
40:02
Speaker 3: into climbing up to Camp three at twenty four thousand
40:07
Speaker 3: feet above sea level, and now they're all the way
40:11
Speaker 3: back down at base camp at seventeen thousand, five hundred
40:14
Speaker 3: feet above sea level, and they feel like they're losing ground.
40:17
Speaker 3: But what I remind people of is that just because
40:21
Speaker 3: you're going in a different direction than where you thought
40:25
Speaker 3: you needed to go to achieve your goal, this is
40:28
Speaker 3: not losing ground. This is your opportunity when you go
40:34
Speaker 3: back to base camp to regroup, regain some strength so
40:39
Speaker 3: you're better out of the gates the next time round.
40:42
Speaker 3: I have a phrase that I've actually trademarked, which is
40:45
Speaker 3: that backing up is not the same as backing down, Right,
40:50
Speaker 3: it's not. Sometimes you have to back up and change direction,
40:53
Speaker 3: and sometimes progress doesn't always look like progress. But if
41:00
Speaker 3: changing direction is something that is going to give you
41:02
Speaker 3: an opportunity to regroup, catch your breath, reframe things, look
41:08
Speaker 3: at the route differently, this is all part of gaining strength,
41:14
Speaker 3: This is all part of making you better. So sometimes
41:17
Speaker 3: you do have to change direction in order to make progress.
41:21
Speaker 3: This is not backing down. This is not giving up.
41:25
Speaker 3: This is not losing ground. You look at this direction
41:29
Speaker 3: change as part of the progress. So maybe you interviewed
41:32
Speaker 3: for a job that you didn't get, maybe a goot
41:35
Speaker 3: transferred to a different division that you didn't want to
41:38
Speaker 3: be in. Look at that opportunity and think, what can
41:42
Speaker 3: I do right now in this position that maybe I
41:45
Speaker 3: didn't think I would find myself in this position that
41:50
Speaker 3: I would not have chosen for myself. What can I
41:53
Speaker 3: do with this opportunity so that I'm better positioned for
41:58
Speaker 3: success going forward? And that's how you look at those
42:02
Speaker 3: direction changes.
42:04
Speaker 1: I have a few rapid fire questions for you. What's
42:10
Speaker 1: one thing that every woman should try?
42:12
Speaker 3: One thing every woman should try writing their name in
42:15
Speaker 3: the snow when they pee. And there's actually a device
42:20
Speaker 3: that we use in mountaineering that allows that. I call
42:23
Speaker 3: this the p funnel. This device actually allows women to
42:27
Speaker 3: urinate standing up, so we can write our name in
42:32
Speaker 3: the snow. And the best thing about this device is
42:36
Speaker 3: that even in freezing cold temperatures, it stays this long.
42:41
Speaker 3: If you ever wanted to know what the big deal
42:43
Speaker 3: was about being able to pee your name in the snow,
42:46
Speaker 3: this is your solution. You can find out so there
42:49
Speaker 3: you go.
42:50
Speaker 1: What is something simple that you do for yourself that
42:53
Speaker 1: makes a big impact on your life.
42:55
Speaker 3: Something simple I do for myself that makes a big
42:58
Speaker 3: impact is just snow uggling with my dog. It sets
43:02
Speaker 3: my mood for the day if I can just get
43:04
Speaker 3: a snuggle. And the crazy thing is I have a
43:06
Speaker 3: dog that's not affectionate and it kills me. And he's
43:09
Speaker 3: a lab, which is really unusual. So we have forced
43:12
Speaker 3: cuddle time and I grab him and I'm like, you're
43:15
Speaker 3: gonna cuddle with me, and we cuddle. But I feel
43:19
Speaker 3: like that sets my intention for the day. I'm like, oh,
43:21
Speaker 3: I got some love, just a little intention for the day.
43:24
Speaker 3: And then the other thing is my husband and I
43:26
Speaker 3: when I'm in town, we always do morning hug. That's
43:28
Speaker 3: how I start off the day every morning, stand up
43:31
Speaker 3: morning hug. It's a great way to start your day
43:33
Speaker 3: with a hug. But it doesn't have to be a
43:34
Speaker 3: physical hug if you don't have somebody there, it can
43:37
Speaker 3: just be a quick text to somebody just get send
43:40
Speaker 3: you a virtual hug. And so I think that's another
43:44
Speaker 3: thing that you can do every day because when you
43:47
Speaker 3: make someone else feel good, doesn't that make you feel good.
43:50
Speaker 3: And if you wake up every day and you start
43:52
Speaker 3: your day sending a text to somebody just giving them
43:55
Speaker 3: a little boost and a little bit of encouragement, that
43:58
Speaker 3: not only makes their day, I think it can make
44:00
Speaker 3: your day too.
44:01
Speaker 2: I agree.
44:02
Speaker 1: What is the best financial tip or philosophy that you
44:06
Speaker 1: think more women should know about.
44:08
Speaker 3: I'm going to pivot this to the worst financial tip
44:11
Speaker 3: and just do the opposite. I think the worst financial
44:14
Speaker 3: tip is do what you love and the money will come. No. No,
44:18
Speaker 3: you know what I love hanging out with dogs, Petting dogs,
44:22
Speaker 3: That's what I love. I'm not going to be able
44:24
Speaker 3: to pay my mortgage petting dogs. So a tip I
44:26
Speaker 3: have is take the job that you don't have to
44:29
Speaker 3: be incredibly passionate about the job itself. Because I've had
44:34
Speaker 3: many jobs that I wasn't passionate about the job. But
44:37
Speaker 3: you know what, I loved the people. You know what
44:40
Speaker 3: I loved the opportunity to learn. You know what, I
44:43
Speaker 3: loved being in a situation that made me uncomfortable where
44:46
Speaker 3: I knew I had to grow. So my financial tip
44:49
Speaker 3: is take the opportunities that you might not be super
44:55
Speaker 3: passionate about, because sometimes those opportunities will surprise you, and
44:59
Speaker 3: you will learn from those opportunities, and years down the road,
45:03
Speaker 3: when you've made all the money and you've had all
45:05
Speaker 3: these success then you can focus on doing what you love.
45:07
Speaker 3: But sometimes you have to do what you don't love
45:10
Speaker 3: in order to make the money to allow you to
45:14
Speaker 3: do the things that you love down the road.
45:16
Speaker 2: Is that how you felt about finance?
45:18
Speaker 3: Yes, I did not like my job on Wall Street
45:22
Speaker 3: at all, but I loved the people. I loved the
45:26
Speaker 3: people so much. I was working alongside with green berets,
45:31
Speaker 3: concert pianists, Olympic medalists. I worked with such interesting people,
45:37
Speaker 3: and I didn't love the job, But what I did
45:39
Speaker 3: love was the culture of being a clutch player. And
45:44
Speaker 3: what I mean by that is the people there delivered.
45:48
Speaker 3: When they said they were going to do something, they
45:50
Speaker 3: got it done. When they said they were going to
45:52
Speaker 3: have a report finished, they got it finished. And you
45:55
Speaker 3: knew that when somebody said they were going to do
45:57
Speaker 3: something that you could count on them. And I placed
46:00
Speaker 3: a very high value on that. And there's a chapter
46:04
Speaker 3: in my book that talks about having a personal mantra.
46:08
Speaker 3: Have a phrase or a few words that describes who
46:10
Speaker 3: you are at your core. My mantra is count on me.
46:14
Speaker 3: I am the person that shows up. I'm the person
46:16
Speaker 3: who delivers. I'm the person that does not break my promises.
46:19
Speaker 3: And so being on Wall Street, I appreciated the culture
46:25
Speaker 3: of the people that I worked with at Goldman Sachs.
46:27
Speaker 3: Even though I didn't love the job, I loved the people.
46:31
Speaker 1: I like having a personal mantra. I've thought about a
46:34
Speaker 1: personal mission statement a lot, but not really a mantra,
46:37
Speaker 1: and I think that's easier to access. That's really interesting.
46:40
Speaker 3: It's what do you want people to think about you?
46:42
Speaker 3: If you have to describe who you are at your
46:46
Speaker 3: core and the way you want people to think about you.
46:48
Speaker 3: For me, it's count on me. I want people to
46:50
Speaker 3: know that I'm in a deliver for them.
46:53
Speaker 2: That's really cool. Okay.
46:54
Speaker 1: A book that should be required reading, or something that
46:57
Speaker 1: you've read that has just really changed your life.
47:00
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, a book that changed my life. Victor
47:03
Speaker 3: frankel Man search for meaning about his experience as a
47:06
Speaker 3: Holocaust survivor.
47:08
Speaker 1: Hey, I have a card game, and because we're virtual,
47:12
Speaker 1: I'm just going to have you say stop whenever you
47:15
Speaker 1: feel okay, stop, Okay. What's the one song that without fail,
47:19
Speaker 1: gets you dancing.
47:21
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I think Taylor's stuffs shake it off.
47:24
Speaker 1: That's so great, Allison. Thank you so much for joining us.
47:28
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me my pleasure.
47:35
Speaker 2: Okay, you know what time it is. Today's a good day.
47:39
Speaker 2: To have a good day. I'll see you next week