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SMNTY Classics: How the Anti-Abortion Movement Fueled the Riot at the Capitol · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie an Samantha, and welcome to Stephan.
0:07
Speaker 1: I never told your protection of iHeart Radio, and in
0:18
Speaker 1: our continuing discussions around abortion, given what's going on here
0:22
Speaker 1: in the United States, UM, we wanted to bring another
0:25
Speaker 1: classic episode we did with bridget Todd on the link
0:30
Speaker 1: between anti abortion groups and anti abortion people and the
0:35
Speaker 1: riot that happened at the US Capital, because I think
0:39
Speaker 1: that's really important, right that we acknowledge, right as well
0:44
Speaker 1: as the fact that this conversation about peaceful protests versus
0:48
Speaker 1: h ryots and violence. UM. And there's a lot of conversation,
0:51
Speaker 1: and we've seen it, we've we've heard it, especially when
0:54
Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter happened, about how this is not how
0:56
Speaker 1: you do things. And then the insurrection happened, and no
0:59
Speaker 1: one really beats an I obviously because it happened at
1:02
Speaker 1: the Capitol. They walked in like literally had plans of
1:05
Speaker 1: possibly going after political officials. And that's not happened here, uh,
1:10
Speaker 1: in any one of the other protests that led to
1:13
Speaker 1: this point. Of course, it has violence has erupted, some
1:17
Speaker 1: buildings damaged and all of this, But the rhetoric of oh,
1:21
Speaker 1: but we're we're pro life, quote anti choice, we would
1:26
Speaker 1: never stoop these tactics and kind of pushing it aside,
1:29
Speaker 1: but finding that actually there's a lot of violence in
1:33
Speaker 1: this anti abortion rhetoric because there's been a link as
1:36
Speaker 1: we talked with Bridget to uh anti abortion activists who
1:42
Speaker 1: have either threatened violence or committed violence towards people of
1:47
Speaker 1: abortion clinics and or going through abortion clinics um to
1:52
Speaker 1: the insurrection, as well as those who are linked with
1:54
Speaker 1: domestic violence. So I think it's really important that those
1:57
Speaker 1: correlations are added up because this whole narrative that one
2:01
Speaker 1: side of the other or less violent is bs. Yeah,
2:03
Speaker 1: it's my blood boils every time I hear a conservative
2:08
Speaker 1: center to be like a peaceful protest on January six,
2:12
Speaker 1: and like, oh know what happened? So people died, people died.
2:18
Speaker 1: Get out of here. I do not want to hear
2:21
Speaker 1: from you ever again. Well on that, please enjoy this
2:27
Speaker 1: classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome
2:36
Speaker 1: to stuff I've never told you, a production of I
2:37
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Today, we are once again joined by our
2:49
Speaker 1: good friend and colleague Bridget Todd. Hello, Bridget, Hello, I'm
2:53
Speaker 1: so excited to be here again. Yes, always a pleasure
2:57
Speaker 1: to have you and Wow, I think we recorded in
3:01
Speaker 1: early December the last time we met up in this
3:05
Speaker 1: virtual podcasting space. And a lot has happened since A
3:10
Speaker 1: lot has happened. Doesn't that feel like it was years ago?
3:13
Speaker 1: It really does. It feels so far and I feels
3:16
Speaker 1: like I have slept a mania nights. There's been a
3:20
Speaker 1: mini a moon set of things have happened. I feel
3:22
Speaker 1: like I've already aged ten years. Yeah, so there's a lot,
3:25
Speaker 1: like I feel like it's it was a lot, yes,
3:30
Speaker 1: And so we wanted to ask you because the topic
3:32
Speaker 1: you're bringing us today is related both to past topics
3:36
Speaker 1: you've talked about, but also too what happened in the
3:40
Speaker 1: capital of the violence at the capital, and since you're
3:42
Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. We wanted to ask you about it.
3:46
Speaker 1: What was that like? Thank you for asking. It was
3:49
Speaker 1: very odd, as you might imagine. So when I woke
3:52
Speaker 1: up on January six, before I went to bed, I
3:54
Speaker 1: had been watching the numbers come in from the Georgia
3:57
Speaker 1: Senate runoffs and I was feeling very good. I put
4:00
Speaker 1: on my lucky shirt that has a Shirtlely Chisholm look
4:03
Speaker 1: quote on it, and so like you know, I woke
4:05
Speaker 1: up beaming. I remember waking up like good morning. I
4:09
Speaker 1: was so excited, and I think it was because I
4:11
Speaker 1: had not felt that kind of hope and a long time.
4:14
Speaker 1: So I was like feeling very, very hopeful that morning,
4:17
Speaker 1: and it was like a like a power and a
4:19
Speaker 1: hope that I had not felt in I guess the
4:21
Speaker 1: last four years. And how quickly that feeling of hopefulness
4:27
Speaker 1: turned into just powerlessness as I watched, you know, this
4:33
Speaker 1: insurrection happened, and I think that, like I was watching,
4:36
Speaker 1: it happened on television kind of in real time, and
4:39
Speaker 1: so it really got so dark and so serious. So
4:43
Speaker 1: quickly it went from of course, there's just going to
4:45
Speaker 1: be these Trump supporters, you know, standing outside the Capitol protesting,
4:49
Speaker 1: sure to like, oh my god, this is bad. You know,
4:53
Speaker 1: we got you know those things that you get on
4:54
Speaker 1: your phone and there's an amber alert, those like things
4:57
Speaker 1: on your phone. We everybody who was in my house
5:00
Speaker 1: got one of those at the same time from the
5:02
Speaker 1: mayor of d C saying that there was a state
5:04
Speaker 1: of emergency order, there was a curfew, we couldn't go out.
5:06
Speaker 1: It happened very quickly, and yeah, when I watched it
5:09
Speaker 1: I'm always making this point, but DC is my home.
5:12
Speaker 1: I was raised here, this is my community. I've lived here.
5:14
Speaker 1: This is like what I consider home. And I think
5:17
Speaker 1: that because it's where so much of our federal government
5:21
Speaker 1: stuff happens and where the you know, the capital is.
5:24
Speaker 1: People forget that just regular folks live here, Like this
5:27
Speaker 1: is where people live. And so I was really heartbroken
5:31
Speaker 1: by thinking about this as not just an attack on
5:33
Speaker 1: our democracy and on our capital, but also on my community.
5:36
Speaker 1: You know, d C is largely black and brown, and
5:39
Speaker 1: so when these people were storming the capital, I saw
5:43
Speaker 1: videos where after they were storming the capitol, where did
5:45
Speaker 1: they go, Oh, to our restaurants, to our hotels, to
5:49
Speaker 1: our institutions. And just the idea that these people would
5:53
Speaker 1: be kind of unleashed on my community really hurt. And so,
5:57
Speaker 1: you know, I always just got to like make sure
5:59
Speaker 1: that coin gets included that it's not just lawmakers who
6:02
Speaker 1: live in d C. It's real people, some of which
6:05
Speaker 1: have no connection to the government. And so it was
6:07
Speaker 1: not just an attack on our democracy and our capital,
6:09
Speaker 1: was also attack on these people are our home. You know, Yeah,
6:13
Speaker 1: I remember because we were all watching closely and knowing
6:15
Speaker 1: that you were my one of my connections in DC.
6:18
Speaker 1: Definitely like following you on Twitter. You actually mentioned like, hey,
6:22
Speaker 1: thanks a lot for bringing in the corona, like not
6:24
Speaker 1: wearing a mask and infecting our city and we were
6:27
Speaker 1: trying to control it, and you just made this bigger
6:29
Speaker 1: disaster because they were not only in your community, at
6:31
Speaker 1: your restaurants, at your hotels, at your places of service,
6:35
Speaker 1: as if this was a free for all, as if
6:36
Speaker 1: nothing were happening, and of course no one was arrested,
6:39
Speaker 1: so therefore they were just out and about doing their thing.
6:41
Speaker 1: I just saw a report saying like a thirty something
6:43
Speaker 1: Capital Police officers tested positives for corona just recently. But yeah,
6:47
Speaker 1: I saw you tweeting that. I was like, oh my god,
6:49
Speaker 1: she's so right. I didn't even think of that that
6:51
Speaker 1: part because I'm just looking at the violence. The holy
6:53
Speaker 1: crap is a pandemic, y'all. It's a pandemic, and it's like,
6:56
Speaker 1: we just don't need this, and it totally I think
6:59
Speaker 1: that residents of DC have been pretty compliant when it
7:02
Speaker 1: comes to socially distancing and masking and all that kind
7:05
Speaker 1: of stuff, but just we have enough stuff going on
7:07
Speaker 1: as a city. You know, on top of the pandemic
7:10
Speaker 1: and everything else, is it just like one more big
7:13
Speaker 1: thing that we don't need. And I think it's also
7:15
Speaker 1: really hard the fact that d C is not really
7:17
Speaker 1: a state. I think that people just forget, like people
7:20
Speaker 1: don't understand that we don't have the same kind of
7:23
Speaker 1: protections or support that states have because we're not a state.
7:25
Speaker 1: And so you know, when the mayor was trying to
7:28
Speaker 1: get the National Guard to come in, that was delayed
7:30
Speaker 1: because she said, a mayor, she doesn't have that authority,
7:33
Speaker 1: and so she had to get special permission. You know.
7:35
Speaker 1: I think it really illustrated to me how important it
7:38
Speaker 1: is that DC becomes a state at some point, because
7:41
Speaker 1: it just doesn't work. And every other place right now
7:44
Speaker 1: is being ravaged by the pandemic as is d C.
7:46
Speaker 1: And yeah, it just doesn't help. We didn't need this.
7:49
Speaker 1: We're already having a tough time the realities of when
7:53
Speaker 1: people decided to do stupid things exactly. Uh, And I'm
8:01
Speaker 1: so glad you're okay. And in the wake of all
8:04
Speaker 1: of this, there's of course been a lot of looking
8:06
Speaker 1: into what happened and what led up to it and
8:09
Speaker 1: the people that were there, and I just remember so
8:12
Speaker 1: clearly you've come on here and spoken a lot about
8:15
Speaker 1: disinformation and misinformation, and you said, like, people forget that
8:19
Speaker 1: these online things have real world consequences, and this was
8:24
Speaker 1: like one of the most I couldn't think of a
8:27
Speaker 1: better example. And we were also been talking about women
8:33
Speaker 1: and Q and on and this very specific kind of
8:36
Speaker 1: like fear around children, and one of the things you
8:39
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about today is the anti abortion movement
8:44
Speaker 1: and how that was a part of this whole thing
8:46
Speaker 1: of what happened at the Capitol. Right. Absolutely, I'm grateful
8:50
Speaker 1: that folks like yourself are continuing to pull apart all
8:54
Speaker 1: the different aspects of how we got here, whether it's
8:57
Speaker 1: Q and on targeting women who are concerned about children.
9:01
Speaker 1: And so I think that the connection between the violence
9:03
Speaker 1: that we saw at the capital and the anti abortion
9:05
Speaker 1: movement is just one more of those kind of nuggets
9:08
Speaker 1: that I think we should, you know, not ignore, because
9:10
Speaker 1: there are so many different aspects that got us to
9:14
Speaker 1: January six at the Capitol, and I think that we
9:16
Speaker 1: should be talking about all of them. And I think
9:18
Speaker 1: some of them are easier to go sort of overlooked
9:21
Speaker 1: or a race, and I think the connections to the
9:23
Speaker 1: anti abortion movement is one of them, and so I
9:25
Speaker 1: really have to start by shouting out a couple of people.
9:27
Speaker 1: There is a great piece by Lauren Rankin and Refinery
9:30
Speaker 1: twenty nine called how anti abortion terrorism field the MAGA
9:33
Speaker 1: attack on the Capital really great? Peace cannot recommend it
9:36
Speaker 1: enough And then another investigation by Carter Sherman at Vice
9:39
Speaker 1: called anti abortion activists were all over the Capital riots.
9:43
Speaker 1: So a lot of the information that I have found
9:45
Speaker 1: have come from those two pieces. And I also just
9:47
Speaker 1: have to shout out my friend Renny Bracy Sherman of
9:49
Speaker 1: the organization We Testify. We Testifies an organization that tries
9:53
Speaker 1: to increase representation for people who got abortions, and so
9:56
Speaker 1: they were doing a lot of that work of saying, oh, hey,
9:59
Speaker 1: some of the people we who were at the Capitol,
10:01
Speaker 1: they are very known to you know, abortion providers and
10:04
Speaker 1: abortion activists. And so I really just have to shout
10:06
Speaker 1: out the people who are doing the work to make
10:09
Speaker 1: sure that that conversation s would have we get to
10:12
Speaker 1: have it, and that we don't let stigma or whatever
10:15
Speaker 1: keep us from having this conversation that can really help
10:17
Speaker 1: us understand how we got to the insurrection on the
10:20
Speaker 1: six and then yeah, also just the fact that last
10:23
Speaker 1: week was the forty eight anniversary of Row versus Wade,
10:25
Speaker 1: you know, the landmark Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion in
10:29
Speaker 1: the US, and so on that day, I really was
10:31
Speaker 1: sitting with the fact that the same kind of tactics
10:34
Speaker 1: that abortion advocates have been warning about and screaming about
10:38
Speaker 1: and you know, pointing to for the longest time, those
10:41
Speaker 1: are the same tactics that got us to January six
10:45
Speaker 1: with these people all storming the capital, and they're very,
10:47
Speaker 1: very similar, and they have a lot of overlap. Can
10:49
Speaker 1: you break down this information that led up to this one,
10:53
Speaker 1: but also some of the overlap, because this isn't like
10:57
Speaker 1: a new occurrence of violence within anti abortion movements. Absolutely,
11:02
Speaker 1: it is not a new occurrence. So just like the
11:05
Speaker 1: insurrection was kind of fueled by what they're now calling
11:08
Speaker 1: the big lie that Trump won the election and that
11:10
Speaker 1: it was being stolen from him, the anti abortion movement
11:13
Speaker 1: has similarly trafficked in just straight lies about abortion, about
11:18
Speaker 1: people who have them, about abortion providers, And I think
11:22
Speaker 1: it really illustrates what happens when those lines go more
11:25
Speaker 1: or less unchallenged and so you know, when putting together
11:28
Speaker 1: my information of this episode, I was like, oh, yeah,
11:31
Speaker 1: some abortion disinformation and misinformation and accuracies are so common
11:35
Speaker 1: that you don't even really think about it anymore. And actually,
11:38
Speaker 1: just last week, the University of California Berkeley School of
11:41
Speaker 1: Public Health put out a study that found that four
11:44
Speaker 1: of the five most presented web pages in response to
11:46
Speaker 1: a search for abortion pill on Google were less than accurate. Right.
11:51
Speaker 1: And so just the idea that on our biggest search engine,
11:54
Speaker 1: when you Google for information about abortion, it is likely
11:58
Speaker 1: that information is a lie, is not true, and it's
12:01
Speaker 1: like misleading, right. And so I think that a big
12:03
Speaker 1: thing to point out here is what happens when fabrications
12:07
Speaker 1: are just tolerated. That that's just like the state of
12:09
Speaker 1: play when it comes to misinformation. And I think also
12:12
Speaker 1: when you look at, you know, the lead up to
12:14
Speaker 1: the election, we saw so much inaccurate information being flooded
12:19
Speaker 1: on social media about Biden and Harris and their positions
12:22
Speaker 1: on abortion. And the thing that's like really sad but
12:26
Speaker 1: also shows how savvy these disinformers can be, is that
12:29
Speaker 1: disinformers know that there is a lack of good news
12:33
Speaker 1: and media sources that are in Spanish, and so they
12:36
Speaker 1: then fill that gap with inaccurate information that is in Spanish.
12:40
Speaker 1: And so you saw the Latin X community being really
12:43
Speaker 1: targeted and inundated by inaccurate, distorted information about abortion meant
12:49
Speaker 1: to impact the outcome of the election. And so another
12:53
Speaker 1: point is that these often are happening in what's App
12:55
Speaker 1: groups that are private, so like unlike Facebook where you
12:58
Speaker 1: can kind of get a sense of like what happening,
13:00
Speaker 1: or Twitter, where it's happening mostly in public. It's a
13:02
Speaker 1: close platform to have, you know, your private what's App
13:06
Speaker 1: group with your aunts and uncles and cousins, right, And
13:08
Speaker 1: so we saw lots of really horrific anti abortion messaging
13:13
Speaker 1: targeting the Latin X community in Spanish speaking communities on
13:16
Speaker 1: these platforms. And so yeah, I think that much like
13:21
Speaker 1: with the insurrection, when you have just an accepted baseline
13:25
Speaker 1: of inaccurate information about people who have abortions, about abortion providers,
13:30
Speaker 1: about underrepresented our marginalized communities, it can actually translate to
13:34
Speaker 1: real world violence, real world danger, real world threats. This
13:38
Speaker 1: is not something that is just happening online. Researchers have
13:41
Speaker 1: been very clear about that. You know, one of the
13:56
Speaker 1: things that I just read and we just know that
13:58
Speaker 1: happened in Kentucky is they past the born alive abortion ban,
14:03
Speaker 1: which is nothing more than a political statement trying to
14:07
Speaker 1: do some fearmongering saying this is what's happening, this is
14:09
Speaker 1: what the Democrats are doing. You see, they're killing the
14:11
Speaker 1: babies after they're born, which is absolutely false. But then
14:14
Speaker 1: we have a narrative where they actually put it into law,
14:17
Speaker 1: so it seems like it's real because like, here's an
14:19
Speaker 1: a moment that's attitude state law. We have to address
14:22
Speaker 1: it as making it illegal because it's happening so much,
14:26
Speaker 1: which is a part of that misinformation that is being
14:29
Speaker 1: thrown out there. But it's so scary, and which is
14:33
Speaker 1: also why this back and forth about this unity and
14:35
Speaker 1: letting people go because you know, they didn't know what
14:37
Speaker 1: they were doing. Trump told them to do it. All
14:39
Speaker 1: this it's this level of giving some kind of meat
14:44
Speaker 1: to this rumor which is completely unfounded, but because it's
14:47
Speaker 1: a political move, it's so scary to see because once
14:52
Speaker 1: again here we go with this misinformation not just being
14:55
Speaker 1: a rumor, not just being an outright lie, which obviously
14:58
Speaker 1: people are believing anyway, how do you see with all
15:03
Speaker 1: of that, with that type of strategy, with that type
15:05
Speaker 1: of fearmong with that's actually part of our government structure,
15:08
Speaker 1: how do you see that bleeding into things like these riots?
15:12
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it's so incredibly frustrating, Like what you
15:15
Speaker 1: just described. I have worked in the feminist movement and
15:19
Speaker 1: you know, spaces like that for most of my adult life.
15:21
Speaker 1: And it's not new, but it is. It sure is frustrating.
15:26
Speaker 1: You know, when we spend actual resources and time and
15:31
Speaker 1: energy on things that are not true, things are just
15:35
Speaker 1: like fabrications, And I I understand the sentiment. You know,
15:38
Speaker 1: A good example is when Project Veritas put out those
15:42
Speaker 1: videos purporting to show Planned parenthood staffers talking about selling
15:46
Speaker 1: body parts and this and that. That was a fabrication,
15:49
Speaker 1: but yet we still had to spend time and resources
15:53
Speaker 1: combating something that was alive. And I think that you're
15:56
Speaker 1: exactly right that, yes, it's annoying that, like taxpayer money
15:59
Speaker 1: and res verses get spent on making laws or legislation
16:02
Speaker 1: about things that just aren't happening. But even more than that,
16:05
Speaker 1: it's like it takes up so much oxygen in the room,
16:08
Speaker 1: Like what meaningful policies could we be discussing or getting past.
16:13
Speaker 1: What kind of progress are we not able to get
16:16
Speaker 1: too because we were too busy spitting in a circle
16:19
Speaker 1: about something that was a lie. So I think that
16:21
Speaker 1: as much as what you just described is horrible, it's
16:24
Speaker 1: also just it's such a waste because it just takes
16:27
Speaker 1: up so much energy. People have to spend their time
16:30
Speaker 1: combating against things that are just flies. And I think
16:33
Speaker 1: that we really have to get to a place in
16:35
Speaker 1: this country where I'm not gonna say it started with Trump,
16:38
Speaker 1: but he certainly didn't help. I feel like we've gotten
16:40
Speaker 1: to a place where people don't understand that there's lies
16:43
Speaker 1: and there's true and you can have your opinion. There
16:46
Speaker 1: are things where you're like, oh, well, I'm not so
16:47
Speaker 1: sure of course, But at the end of the day,
16:50
Speaker 1: some things are just live. But we have a lot
16:52
Speaker 1: facing us as a country. We don't have time or
16:54
Speaker 1: resources to spend on things that are just lies, and
16:57
Speaker 1: we gotta get back to a place where we can
16:58
Speaker 1: all agree like some things are just not true and
17:00
Speaker 1: not worth taking the oxygen out of the room to
17:03
Speaker 1: combat them, you know what I mean. So with that,
17:06
Speaker 1: because of stuff like that, it as another additional need
17:10
Speaker 1: of protection for women specifically, but even men. And of
17:13
Speaker 1: course we can go into the conversation about how anti
17:16
Speaker 1: abortion movement is actually a misogynistic movement in order to
17:18
Speaker 1: control women's bodies. That's the whole conversation we've had before,
17:21
Speaker 1: probably need to have all the times. But when we
17:25
Speaker 1: look at things like this riot, when we look at
17:26
Speaker 1: the people who are actually involved with it, like you said,
17:28
Speaker 1: they were able to pinpoint, Hey, that dude is known
17:30
Speaker 1: for coming to threatened women, that dude is known for
17:33
Speaker 1: harassing women trying to get to an abortion clinic just
17:36
Speaker 1: to have a conversation, or even supporting planned parenthood. How
17:40
Speaker 1: do things like legislation like this feed into movements like
17:44
Speaker 1: this that causes this like violent rhetoric and almost a
17:48
Speaker 1: mob lynching mentality. Yeah, it's a great question. I think
17:52
Speaker 1: it legitimizes them. I think when we treat movements that
17:56
Speaker 1: are not above threatening, violent tactic agitation things like that.
18:01
Speaker 1: Of course, I am a protester, you know, I've been
18:03
Speaker 1: protesting since i've ben a child, So I completely a
18:07
Speaker 1: thousand percent support anyone's free speech and ability to assemble
18:13
Speaker 1: and protest, even if it's per someonthing I don't agree with.
18:15
Speaker 1: That is a protected thing, and I find it to
18:17
Speaker 1: be quite sacred. However, harassing people trying to get to
18:21
Speaker 1: a clinic so that they can't get into the door,
18:23
Speaker 1: that's different. Right, Threatening violence, that's different. And so I
18:27
Speaker 1: think that when lawmakers, public policy officials, folks like that,
18:32
Speaker 1: when they create policy that says, oh, what you're saying,
18:36
Speaker 1: that's okay, Like, okay, we'll put out a law that
18:38
Speaker 1: says this thing that hasn't that is not happening, it's
18:42
Speaker 1: against the law. Now, it's like, I feel like it
18:44
Speaker 1: just legitimizes and emboldens people that they can use these
18:48
Speaker 1: kinds of tactics to get what they want, right, and
18:50
Speaker 1: that's to go back to the insurrection for a moment.
18:52
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the things that's been so
18:53
Speaker 1: frustrating in the aftermath of this conversation, people saying things like, well,
18:58
Speaker 1: you know, if you vote to impeach Trump, BETA is
19:00
Speaker 1: going to make them more angry. And it's like we
19:03
Speaker 1: can't have this. It's like like we can't live in
19:05
Speaker 1: a country where we are afraid to do what's needed
19:09
Speaker 1: to be done because people think that it's okay to
19:13
Speaker 1: respond with violence when they don't get their way. It's
19:15
Speaker 1: like that, like we can't have that. A country can't
19:17
Speaker 1: be built on that. Yeah. And going back to this
19:22
Speaker 1: anti abortion movement and its relation to to the insurrection,
19:27
Speaker 1: it's something we've been talking about a lot lately, and
19:30
Speaker 1: I've been on my mind a lot lately. Is how
19:32
Speaker 1: kind of new it is? Like in a lot of
19:35
Speaker 1: ways it's old, but like the strength with the Republican Party,
19:39
Speaker 1: with conservatism and women are people just voting on abortion?
19:43
Speaker 1: And then how like emotional an issue that is for people?
19:47
Speaker 1: And then like you said, all of this like these
19:51
Speaker 1: false facts and disinformation and misinformation, and people who were
19:55
Speaker 1: watching this and who were listening to Trump and watching
19:59
Speaker 1: this like, well, I guess like we didn't know it's
20:03
Speaker 1: gonna be a right then, but this thing he was
20:06
Speaker 1: holding and they were saying like, no, this is the
20:09
Speaker 1: anti abortion movement is going to be involved in it. Yeah,
20:13
Speaker 1: And it turns out, yes, can you talk about that? Yes,
20:17
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. So here's what Aaron Matson, the executive
20:20
Speaker 1: director of Reproaction, which they track anti abortion activists, here's
20:24
Speaker 1: what she said. She says anti abortion agitators have been
20:27
Speaker 1: calling and supporting the president. I guess the then president.
20:33
Speaker 1: The President's called the store Washington for some time. I know,
20:36
Speaker 1: and I am confident that as time goes on and
20:38
Speaker 1: more and more these photos are analyzed, but we'll see
20:40
Speaker 1: more overlap between the anti abortion movement and the white
20:43
Speaker 1: supremacists who tried to overthrow the United States of America.
20:46
Speaker 1: And she was completely right. A number of very prominent
20:49
Speaker 1: anti abortion voices were president at the Capitol in June six.
20:52
Speaker 1: And this is not a coincidence. There has been this
20:54
Speaker 1: long standing crossover between the two movements, the anti abortion
20:57
Speaker 1: movement and white supremacist terror movement. Like that is not
21:00
Speaker 1: a new thing. It's gives you all have done such
21:02
Speaker 1: a great job of talking about There's so much to
21:05
Speaker 1: untangle when it comes to, you know, white supremacist movements,
21:09
Speaker 1: anti abortion movements, anti women movements, they're all kind of
21:13
Speaker 1: in the same stuff, mixed bag, I guess you would say.
21:17
Speaker 1: And Vice had a really great rundown of all of
21:20
Speaker 1: the different prominent anti abortion voices who were at the
21:24
Speaker 1: Capitol that day. Abby Johnson, she's one of the nation's
21:26
Speaker 1: highest profile anti abortion activists. Um and she was in
21:29
Speaker 1: d C. She tweeted an image of herself as a
21:31
Speaker 1: Trump rally that preceded uh the invasion of the capital,
21:34
Speaker 1: and she wrote front row with the most pro life
21:37
Speaker 1: president of our country, John Broke Coved, who was a
21:39
Speaker 1: convicted abortion clinic bomber, live streamed himself at the Capitol
21:43
Speaker 1: on January six, as he put it, quote fighting for
21:46
Speaker 1: our beloved President Donald J. Trump. Taylor Hansen, who you
21:49
Speaker 1: might know he got very popular by putting these murals
21:52
Speaker 1: up all over the country that said baby lives matter.
21:55
Speaker 1: He was there. And also Derek Evans, a member of
21:58
Speaker 1: the West Virginia House of Delicates lives in the video
22:00
Speaker 1: of himself in a helmet urging rioters to break into
22:02
Speaker 1: the building, and two years earlier, a court forbid Evans
22:05
Speaker 1: from having any contact with a woman who helped escort
22:08
Speaker 1: patients at West Virginia's Loan abortion clinic after she accused
22:11
Speaker 1: him of regularly standing outside and harassing her. So these
22:15
Speaker 1: are people who have documented histories of a either being
22:19
Speaker 1: very prominent anti abortion voices or b I just showing
22:24
Speaker 1: themselves to not be above threats and violence to push
22:27
Speaker 1: their extreme anti abortion agenda. So it's not a coincidence
22:31
Speaker 1: that these folks also felt that that kind of extremism
22:35
Speaker 1: was an appropriate response to be used in the capital,
22:38
Speaker 1: you know, and you know, as you're talking about specifically Evans,
22:42
Speaker 1: and of course he actually resigned because of people actually
22:46
Speaker 1: be like, hey, oh, this is not good. Let's not
22:48
Speaker 1: have him represent us, which is nice to see, I guess,
22:51
Speaker 1: but he being a violent person who came yelling after
22:54
Speaker 1: and harassed to the point that women were scared. That
22:57
Speaker 1: was one of the other conversations they were having with
22:59
Speaker 1: the anti abortion Many of the people are like, Hey,
23:01
Speaker 1: that dude and he has so much domestic violence. If
23:03
Speaker 1: you look at his rap sheet, that dude is known
23:05
Speaker 1: as being violent towards women. Like all of these things
23:08
Speaker 1: that had shown obvious. Oh, these are the dudes who
23:12
Speaker 1: end up being shooters, Like that's kind of that match
23:15
Speaker 1: shooter conversation, Like, these are the same people who are
23:18
Speaker 1: going after people, going to harass and trying to assassinate candidates.
23:23
Speaker 1: And we also saw many who were obviously like the
23:26
Speaker 1: Proud Boys, who were very racist and we knew they
23:29
Speaker 1: were racists, and we knew they were white supremacists and
23:31
Speaker 1: they're proud to be white supremacist, Like you see all
23:33
Speaker 1: of these people like, oh, those are the Violet who
23:35
Speaker 1: are racist and sexist. How do you think that this
23:39
Speaker 1: type of disinformation led to them being the ones that
23:42
Speaker 1: led the riots? I mean, it's a great question. I'm
23:44
Speaker 1: not at all surprised. You know, we know that disinformation
23:48
Speaker 1: largely impacts underrepresented people. So it largely is fueled by
23:53
Speaker 1: these horrible distortions about who we are, whether it's women,
23:57
Speaker 1: black folks, other communities of color. Desided nation is fueled
24:01
Speaker 1: by racist, sexist, like the worst racist, sexist imagining of
24:06
Speaker 1: who we are, right, that's complete caricatures. And so it
24:09
Speaker 1: is not surprising to me that these people would be
24:11
Speaker 1: fueled by this kind of hateful content and really truly
24:15
Speaker 1: believe it. And I think, you know, to your point,
24:18
Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is, I'm happy that Evans resigned.
24:21
Speaker 1: That I'm to the point where whenever there's some sort
24:24
Speaker 1: of like accountability or consequence, I'm like, oh wow, look
24:26
Speaker 1: at that someone faced a consequence. They still have those
24:29
Speaker 1: but these are people who have scary backgrounds, right, people
24:34
Speaker 1: who have shown themselves to not be above using violence
24:38
Speaker 1: to get what they want. And you're exactly right, that
24:41
Speaker 1: because we don't take violence against women very seriously. Most times,
24:45
Speaker 1: when there's a mass shooter or some sort of mass
24:47
Speaker 1: scale violence behind that, there is a trail of people
24:51
Speaker 1: who tried to sound the alarm, usually women. You know.
24:54
Speaker 1: I think it was on Christmas Eve, that guy who
24:57
Speaker 1: he set off a bomb in I wanna say, Tennesse, Yeah, Nashville, Nashville,
25:01
Speaker 1: thank you. Come to find out his girlfriend previously was like,
25:05
Speaker 1: I think he's making a bomb, right, Like, like you
25:08
Speaker 1: pretty clearly, you know what it's like. I wish we
25:10
Speaker 1: could get to a place where violence against women was disqualifying,
25:15
Speaker 1: that like people just didn't let it slide, because it's
25:17
Speaker 1: so often is an indicator that something else bad is
25:20
Speaker 1: going to happen. And I just wish that we lived
25:22
Speaker 1: in a world where these kinds of warnings were taken
25:25
Speaker 1: seriously instead of being ignored. Right when we talk about
25:28
Speaker 1: this information happening and we see it being targeted towards
25:32
Speaker 1: women specifically, I was kind of shocked to see how
25:35
Speaker 1: many women really really dug into Q and on and
25:37
Speaker 1: the whole, like I have to protect my babies. I
25:39
Speaker 1: have to protect my babies. But when it comes down
25:41
Speaker 1: to the violence. More often than not, it's the men.
25:44
Speaker 1: And again, of course we've had this conversation again how
25:47
Speaker 1: misogyny plays a bigger part of anti abortion movements than
25:51
Speaker 1: we know. How do we see that men end up
25:53
Speaker 1: taking these kinds of initiatives and owning them I guess
25:56
Speaker 1: is the word, and then taking it into such a
25:59
Speaker 1: route that it becomes a volatile, bigger movement than what
26:05
Speaker 1: is online. So as what I'm saying is like we
26:07
Speaker 1: see a lot of qu and no misinformation. And we
26:09
Speaker 1: found out that Instagram was one of the biggest of
26:12
Speaker 1: connections for women, and she using like influencers to talk
26:16
Speaker 1: to these women who feel like they need to do
26:18
Speaker 1: all of these things. But when it comes down to
26:20
Speaker 1: like parlor and when it comes down to read it
26:23
Speaker 1: and fortune, it's the men and who initiate these like
26:25
Speaker 1: kind of responses of it. We have to do something,
26:28
Speaker 1: let's get armed. And we see that misinformation being bled
26:31
Speaker 1: into anti abortion movements into the only person who can
26:35
Speaker 1: say by country is former President Trump. How do we
26:39
Speaker 1: see this information being played out where it becomes such
26:42
Speaker 1: a bigger conspiracy theory that it does lead to violence. Wow,
26:46
Speaker 1: that's a long winded question. I'm sorry. I mean it's
26:49
Speaker 1: a big question. I think that we know that if
26:52
Speaker 1: you hear something enough times that people eventually believe it.
26:55
Speaker 1: And so the more times that you hear something, the
26:58
Speaker 1: more times that you hear a false claim go come
27:00
Speaker 1: completely unchecked, people are likely to believe it. I hope
27:03
Speaker 1: that this is understood in the spirits, which I mean it.
27:06
Speaker 1: People who are out to disiniform, out to cause chaos
27:11
Speaker 1: and confusion. They're very smart, and they're very savvy, and
27:14
Speaker 1: they're very good at it. And I think that the
27:15
Speaker 1: dynamic that you just described where they're sort of a
27:18
Speaker 1: softer version of it for women to get them involved,
27:21
Speaker 1: and then a lot of the violence is led by men.
27:25
Speaker 1: I think that is a really smart, savvy way to
27:29
Speaker 1: structure a movement. And somebody once told me, whatever the
27:33
Speaker 1: movement is, there's never any kind of movement without women, right,
27:36
Speaker 1: And so I do think that we have to have
27:38
Speaker 1: some tough conversations about the role that women played, because
27:41
Speaker 1: one of the first people to die in the insurrection
27:44
Speaker 1: was Ashley Babbitt, a woman who had been completely completely
27:48
Speaker 1: just like consumed by Q and on conspiracy theories, and
27:51
Speaker 1: so I think that you see women sort of being
27:55
Speaker 1: indoctrinated to be sort of like the foot soldiers of
27:58
Speaker 1: this movement, where men are largely the ones who are
28:03
Speaker 1: pushing for violence, like your boogaloo boys and things of
28:06
Speaker 1: that nature. That serves a very important function because I
28:09
Speaker 1: think that if women are feeling like, well, I need
28:13
Speaker 1: to support this because it's going to keep me feeling safe.
28:17
Speaker 1: It's going to keep my position in society. Intact. It's
28:20
Speaker 1: a very smart way to have these kinds of conspiracy
28:25
Speaker 1: theories be gendered in the way that they are, because
28:27
Speaker 1: I think it does ensure that, you know, if you're
28:30
Speaker 1: a woman who maybe isn't so into the whole politics thing,
28:33
Speaker 1: but you know, you don't like the idea of children
28:36
Speaker 1: being targeted, so you get wrapped up in Q and on.
28:39
Speaker 1: I think that the idea that the men storming the
28:42
Speaker 1: capital are going to create safety for you and your children.
28:47
Speaker 1: I can understand why that's a seductive message. You know,
28:50
Speaker 1: look at the way that Trump message to white suburban
28:53
Speaker 1: women all throughout the election, saying things like, oh, if
28:55
Speaker 1: you vote for a Biden quote, Antipa is going to
28:58
Speaker 1: be at your front door. You know you're gonna have
29:01
Speaker 1: riots in your in your streets, you know your kids
29:04
Speaker 1: aren't safe. I think that he messaged that way because
29:06
Speaker 1: I think it's effective. Everybody wants to be safe, and
29:09
Speaker 1: I think it's a really smart way to ensure that
29:13
Speaker 1: everybody is bought in. Even if you're not like a
29:15
Speaker 1: violent person and you're not going to be the one
29:17
Speaker 1: breaking windows and trying to like hunt down members of
29:20
Speaker 1: Congress with zip ties, you might be supportive of it
29:24
Speaker 1: if you feel that, like that's what the men have
29:26
Speaker 1: to do quote unquote to restore order and keep you
29:28
Speaker 1: and your family safe. It's very savvy, and part of
29:31
Speaker 1: me kind of is not surprised that it works on
29:33
Speaker 1: so many women, right. It was interesting to see also,
29:37
Speaker 1: like the mothers with their sons. We had at least
29:39
Speaker 1: two examples of those, and I was like, which, I know.
29:43
Speaker 1: There's been articles about that as well, including the fact
29:45
Speaker 1: that one of the young men, who actually is from
29:47
Speaker 1: Georgia Blue Ridge, near Minor hometown, blamed his mother in
29:53
Speaker 1: the testimony. He actually blamed his mother. What an ask,
29:59
Speaker 1: I mean, it was poor woman and she and she
30:02
Speaker 1: was like you know what I'm saying, Like, I mean,
30:08
Speaker 1: that really does tell you all you need to know
30:10
Speaker 1: right that you know, if you get caught storming the capital,
30:13
Speaker 1: that like, oh my mom didn't raise me, right, that
30:16
Speaker 1: that would be your first excuse. Honestly, this mom should
30:19
Speaker 1: be like, wow, I really didn't do such a hot job.
30:22
Speaker 1: I have to wonder what her response was, because all
30:24
Speaker 1: I read was his testimony in which he was like, yeah,
30:26
Speaker 1: my mom told me to do this, my mom told
30:28
Speaker 1: me to pick those up. My mom did this. And
30:29
Speaker 1: it was quite funny because I was like, dude, you
30:33
Speaker 1: come in here trying to be big masculine, I'm going
30:36
Speaker 1: to kidnap these people and then be like, my mama
30:39
Speaker 1: did it right, throwing your own mother under the bus.
30:43
Speaker 1: And it's funny that you say this because I have
30:45
Speaker 1: noticed a lot of these people are being released to
30:48
Speaker 1: their parents or in the care of the family members
30:51
Speaker 1: and things of that nature. Your point is such a
30:53
Speaker 1: good one, where it's like what happened to like, oh,
30:55
Speaker 1: we're storming the capital and we're you know, big and
30:58
Speaker 1: bad and blah blah blah. And now when you get
31:00
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, well, I gotta release me to my money.
31:02
Speaker 1: I was like, which is it? If you're gonna be
31:04
Speaker 1: an insurrection? Is at least I do it with yours,
31:06
Speaker 1: but don't you know well, and just coming back to
31:09
Speaker 1: because I think this is just a simple question I
31:12
Speaker 1: do and I don't understand. This is how did the
31:13
Speaker 1: anti abortion movement become the center of this riot? Almost
31:18
Speaker 1: I think that there's so much overlap between the two
31:21
Speaker 1: that I think a lot of these people saw Donald
31:23
Speaker 1: Trump as the person who was going to in their eyes,
31:26
Speaker 1: restore the rights of children and the unborn right. And
31:29
Speaker 1: so it's it's not even the question of like, how
31:31
Speaker 1: did it become, I think it was always there. I
31:34
Speaker 1: think so many of the people at the forefront of
31:36
Speaker 1: the insurrection also did have this history with the anti
31:40
Speaker 1: abortion movement. I think it's like the same way that
31:43
Speaker 1: you cannot unpack their white supremacist leanings, their anti women leadings,
31:48
Speaker 1: their anti immigrant leanings. I think it's all one big
31:51
Speaker 1: ball of yarn that led us here. And the fact
31:54
Speaker 1: of the matter is you even saw anti abortion groups
31:58
Speaker 1: spreading this complete lie that quote Antifa was responsible, even
32:02
Speaker 1: though we know that's not true, and that we know
32:04
Speaker 1: many of these people live streamed their crimes. You know,
32:07
Speaker 1: Kristen Hawkins, who is the head of Students for Life
32:09
Speaker 1: of America, which is the nation's biggest anti abortion student group.
32:13
Speaker 1: She blamed ANTIFA members and other writers for storming the capital.
32:16
Speaker 1: And so you already have the mainstream anti abortion movement
32:21
Speaker 1: circling the wagons to protect the violent actions of these people,
32:25
Speaker 1: some of whom are probably doing this in support of
32:29
Speaker 1: their anti abortion ideology. Yeah, it's so frustrating. I hate
32:33
Speaker 1: that when you're like, but it's this video here, they
32:36
Speaker 1: can still be like, no, no, So we did see
32:41
Speaker 1: just so much racism and sexism on display at this riot,
32:45
Speaker 1: and that there were a lot of conversations afterwards, rightfully so,
32:48
Speaker 1: comparing the police and like public reaction to Black Lives
32:53
Speaker 1: Matter protests versus this riot. And then also you have
33:00
Speaker 1: in in this handy outline, you gave us the history
33:02
Speaker 1: between abortion clinic violence and how that kind of overlaps
33:07
Speaker 1: with what happened. Absolutely so, one of the things I
33:10
Speaker 1: think is really interesting about what some of these abortion
33:13
Speaker 1: activists and advocates are saying is that the same way
33:16
Speaker 1: that many of us, myself included, were disgusted watching the
33:19
Speaker 1: police take selfies with the rioters and shake their hands
33:22
Speaker 1: and just generally seem very buddy buddy with the rioters.
33:26
Speaker 1: That is very similar to what abortion advocates and clinic
33:29
Speaker 1: workers have reported when they try to engage the police
33:32
Speaker 1: to report violence or threats happening at their clinics. And
33:35
Speaker 1: so there's a little piece from refinding between nine, she says.
33:38
Speaker 1: In August nineteen seventy nine, a fourt Win, Indiana, abortion
33:41
Speaker 1: clinic received a bomb threat. The city refused to dispatch
33:44
Speaker 1: either police or fire officials, forcing clinic staff to search
33:47
Speaker 1: for the bomb themselves. Nearly forty years later, Becca Ballinger,
33:51
Speaker 1: a clinic escort of New York City, called it a
33:53
Speaker 1: complaint about protesters violating the fifteen foot buffer zone at
33:56
Speaker 1: the clinic. When he arrived, she told her fine. She
34:00
Speaker 1: watched the responding officer approached the violator, shake his hand
34:03
Speaker 1: and give him a hug. He then turned to the
34:06
Speaker 1: group of clinic escorts and said, what are you doing
34:08
Speaker 1: to restrict their First Amendment rights? Today? And I think
34:12
Speaker 1: that one it enraged me. It was like fine this time,
34:15
Speaker 1: But I do think it shows the level to which
34:18
Speaker 1: the police can sort of not always be counted on
34:21
Speaker 1: to be, you know, restoring a public order the same
34:25
Speaker 1: way that we saw police be Buddy buddy with the
34:27
Speaker 1: rioters at the Capitol. Abortion rights activists have said, like,
34:30
Speaker 1: this is not surprising, this is exactly how it is
34:32
Speaker 1: when we have called to report threats or violence at clinics.
34:35
Speaker 1: And the fact of the matter is the Associated Press
34:37
Speaker 1: found that law enforcement agencies nationwide has said that at
34:40
Speaker 1: least thirty one officers in twelve states are being scrutinized
34:44
Speaker 1: by their supervisors for their behavior at the Capitol. Right.
34:47
Speaker 1: And so we know that the same way that we
34:49
Speaker 1: definitely have a problem with needing to root out people
34:53
Speaker 1: that have white supremacist ties who are serving in police forces,
34:56
Speaker 1: it is not a stretch to imagine that that is
34:58
Speaker 1: also a problem when it to anti abortion ideology, that
35:02
Speaker 1: police officers they might feel sympathetic to people who would
35:07
Speaker 1: be threatening violence at a clinic. Right. And so these
35:09
Speaker 1: abortion advocates have been saying, yes, we have been ringing
35:11
Speaker 1: the alarm about the fact that the police have seemed
35:14
Speaker 1: to be buddy buddy with agitators at our clinics for years. Again,
35:18
Speaker 1: it's just one of those things. It's a tough conversation
35:20
Speaker 1: to have, but we do need to talk about the
35:22
Speaker 1: ways that some of these darker forces have infiltrated our police,
35:26
Speaker 1: but people who are meant to be restoring order, you know.
35:29
Speaker 1: And so I do think we have to have these
35:31
Speaker 1: kinds of tough conversations that put these things at the forefront. Yeah,
35:34
Speaker 1: And there's such a like we've been talking about with
35:38
Speaker 1: this like ball of yarn or these vinn diagrams and
35:40
Speaker 1: all this overlap, because if you do look at the
35:44
Speaker 1: history of abortion clinics like this is this violence and
35:49
Speaker 1: threatening of violence has been there for a long time,
35:53
Speaker 1: like since the beginning, right, Yeah. I mean, anybody who
35:56
Speaker 1: has worked in the abortion or reproductive rights space can
35:58
Speaker 1: tell you this is not a new problem. And I
36:01
Speaker 1: just think we really have to grapple with the fact
36:03
Speaker 1: that so many people who work in these spaces have
36:07
Speaker 1: been warning that the unchecked spread of distortions and lies
36:11
Speaker 1: on social media about abortion and about clinics and about
36:14
Speaker 1: abortion providers will lead to real world violence. And so
36:18
Speaker 1: I just think it's important to note how much overlap
36:21
Speaker 1: there was with the violence at the capital and the
36:24
Speaker 1: kind of violence that these abortion advocates have been warning
36:27
Speaker 1: of for years. Yeah, it's so much. It's so much
36:31
Speaker 1: too untangle. As we continue to have these conversations, and
36:36
Speaker 1: certainly disinformation is a huge part of it. Is there
36:40
Speaker 1: anything you want to shout out, any resources you want
36:42
Speaker 1: to shout out, or I guess what people can be
36:45
Speaker 1: looking for. Yeah, I'm sure I've said this on the
36:47
Speaker 1: show before, but the never one thing we can all
36:49
Speaker 1: do to curb disinformation is not amplify it, even if
36:53
Speaker 1: you're trying to dunk on it, even if you've got
36:54
Speaker 1: a great joke. Sometimes it can be hard to resist.
36:57
Speaker 1: I know it, but don't amplify it. If you folk
37:00
Speaker 1: guests instead on kind of creating your own little pocket
37:03
Speaker 1: of the Internet that can be known for trustworthy information,
37:06
Speaker 1: that it's such a better way to spend your time.
37:08
Speaker 1: I think that we all have to really understand the
37:10
Speaker 1: way that like this is not just something that's happening online.
37:13
Speaker 1: You know, I referenced this great or in rank in
37:15
Speaker 1: piece that or finding between nine and folction all read that.
37:18
Speaker 1: But she points out that conspiracy theories and outlandish rhetoric
37:21
Speaker 1: aren't without consequences, particularly when encouraged by those in power.
37:25
Speaker 1: And anti abortion extremist launched a highly visible smear campaign
37:30
Speaker 1: against Planned parenthood, featuring doctored videos that accused the organization
37:33
Speaker 1: of illegally selling fetal body parts. It was absurdain completely untrue,
37:37
Speaker 1: but that didn't stop Congressional Republicans from embracing the conspiracy
37:40
Speaker 1: theory to cry and Planned parenthood and opening an investigation
37:43
Speaker 1: into the organization. Just a few months later, Robert Dear
37:47
Speaker 1: opened fire on a planned planarenthood clinic in Colorado Springs,
37:50
Speaker 1: killing three people, including a security guard. He confessed that
37:54
Speaker 1: he was quote upset with them performing abortions and selling
37:57
Speaker 1: baby parts, a direct reference to the cooked up Enti
38:00
Speaker 1: abortion smear campaign, a conspiracy theory that certainly has echoes,
38:04
Speaker 1: and other far right conspiracies like Q and on and
38:07
Speaker 1: so again, these are not just things people are saying online.
38:11
Speaker 1: They can have real world consequences, just like the continued
38:15
Speaker 1: repeated lie that Trump won the election and that it
38:17
Speaker 1: was being stolen lad to violence with the capital. The
38:21
Speaker 1: more that we tolerate just unchecked conspiracy theories and allow
38:24
Speaker 1: them to seep into our mainstream institutions like our Congress
38:29
Speaker 1: and our government, the higher the risk for real world
38:32
Speaker 1: danger and real world violence. And so, do not think
38:35
Speaker 1: this is just happening online. This is a real thing
38:37
Speaker 1: that has real consequences for all of us with that, because,
38:40
Speaker 1: as we talked about, they were already putting in laws
38:43
Speaker 1: that don't makes us, that are just political games in
38:45
Speaker 1: order to continue this rhetoric of lies for anti abortion reasons,
38:50
Speaker 1: as well as the fact that even though Trump is gone,
38:53
Speaker 1: there still the lie of voter suppression is very well
38:56
Speaker 1: in play. As in fact, you know, in the state
38:57
Speaker 1: of Georgia, and I think I saw it in the
38:59
Speaker 1: state of North Carolina kinda they're already vamping up new
39:02
Speaker 1: ways to suppress votes. We've got a Republican state lawmakers
39:05
Speaker 1: here in Georgia doing new laws to try to take
39:08
Speaker 1: away from as and T voting, shutting down all the polls.
39:12
Speaker 1: So all of this disinformation, like even though it's kind
39:15
Speaker 1: of like, okay, we can kind of push it aside
39:16
Speaker 1: because Biden's finally in office, this anti abortion rhetoric is
39:20
Speaker 1: not gone. Just because we have an actual pro abortion,
39:23
Speaker 1: pro choice people in office doesn't mean this fight's not over.
39:27
Speaker 1: What can we do as a listeners, What can we
39:29
Speaker 1: do as the people behind here as we see it's
39:31
Speaker 1: not just online, what can we do in real life
39:33
Speaker 1: to help a stop of the spread, but be also
39:36
Speaker 1: be an advocate. I think the fact that I forget
39:39
Speaker 1: the numbers, but there are a lot of Republicans lawmakers
39:44
Speaker 1: right now who to this day will not say that
39:47
Speaker 1: the election was not stolen. You know, we have kind
39:50
Speaker 1: of like the idea of quote legal votes has made
39:54
Speaker 1: it into our lexicon. As if there is a widespread,
39:57
Speaker 1: documented pattern of voting a reg aularities in this country.
40:01
Speaker 1: There just is not. There are in every election, you
40:04
Speaker 1: have people where it's like, oh, I was voting for
40:06
Speaker 1: my son who's at college, or this or that. There's
40:08
Speaker 1: always a smattering of sketchiness here or there, but there
40:12
Speaker 1: is not any kind of documented widespread voting our regularities
40:16
Speaker 1: in this election or in any of our last recent elections.
40:20
Speaker 1: Right And so the fact that things like oh well,
40:22
Speaker 1: I think we should count legal votes has become part
40:25
Speaker 1: of our lexicon and has been sort of seen to
40:29
Speaker 1: be kind of a moderate thing. I think has done
40:32
Speaker 1: such a great disservice to our democracy. I don't think
40:35
Speaker 1: we will know how bad it is for many years,
40:38
Speaker 1: you know. I think it planted a seed in a
40:42
Speaker 1: lot of people that maybe will never go away. And honestly,
40:46
Speaker 1: I think one thing that we could all do is
40:48
Speaker 1: just being willing to push back on the echoes of
40:51
Speaker 1: these fabrications. So whether you know, if someone says, well,
40:53
Speaker 1: I think we should count every legal vote, being willing
40:56
Speaker 1: to say, like, well, you know, what do you mean
40:57
Speaker 1: by that? You know, tell me, do you think there's
40:59
Speaker 1: a lot of legal votes out there? Like what do
41:01
Speaker 1: they look like? How often are they happening? I think
41:03
Speaker 1: being willing to interrogate these claims so that they cannot
41:07
Speaker 1: become part of our fabric of understanding the world because
41:11
Speaker 1: they're based on lies. The same way that when people say, like, oh,
41:14
Speaker 1: did you know that Joe Biden supports abortion up until
41:17
Speaker 1: five minutes before delivery, and saying that's not true, that
41:20
Speaker 1: it is incorrect. If someone was trying to do an
41:22
Speaker 1: abortion five minutes before you were meant to be in labor,
41:25
Speaker 1: that will be a crime. That's not happening, and that's incorrect.
41:29
Speaker 1: This being willing to push back on these ideas that
41:33
Speaker 1: are based on nothing in ways that are going to
41:36
Speaker 1: actually prevent them from becoming part of the fabric of
41:39
Speaker 1: how we understand the world because they're based on lies.
41:41
Speaker 1: I know that it's a tall order, but we have
41:43
Speaker 1: enough in this world to contend with we don't need
41:46
Speaker 1: more rights. Fair, you know, I just have to ask
42:06
Speaker 1: you one last thing, because you have been in it,
42:08
Speaker 1: and you have been in it, whether physically because you're
42:11
Speaker 1: in d C or because you're a part of things
42:13
Speaker 1: like Ultra Violet and and and talking about this information.
42:15
Speaker 1: What have you been doing for yourself for self care?
42:19
Speaker 1: Because we haven't asked this question a long time, but
42:21
Speaker 1: that's been a part of our m O. So what
42:23
Speaker 1: is your self care? Oh my god, I'm so excited
42:25
Speaker 1: to talk about this. It's funny. It was my mantra
42:30
Speaker 1: the last two because just like I gotta get to inauguration,
42:32
Speaker 1: I gotta get to inauguration, I gotta get to an
42:34
Speaker 1: I had not been doing a great job of taking
42:36
Speaker 1: care of myself because there was so much after the
42:38
Speaker 1: insurrection on the six I think that everybody in my
42:41
Speaker 1: little community here in d C was just we just
42:44
Speaker 1: had enough. We had just happened. But you know, one
42:47
Speaker 1: of the things that I do to really keep myself
42:49
Speaker 1: grounded and restore myself this really is being outside. And
42:53
Speaker 1: so this weekend I went on a lovely hike in
42:55
Speaker 1: George Washington National Forest, and it was just very restorative,
42:58
Speaker 1: even though it's cold as bald, So just trying to
43:01
Speaker 1: spend time outside, trying to remember that I can only
43:06
Speaker 1: I can only consume so much. I can only do
43:09
Speaker 1: so much. You know, if I read every new take
43:13
Speaker 1: from what happened in the insurrection or every new horrible
43:16
Speaker 1: thing that's going on, I won't necessarily be any better
43:18
Speaker 1: informed or be any better poise to like make a difference.
43:21
Speaker 1: And something I can really do to make sure that
43:23
Speaker 1: I'm better poised to make a difference is like sleep,
43:25
Speaker 1: take care of myself, take breaks, And I encourage everybody
43:28
Speaker 1: to do that. You know, it can be enticing to
43:32
Speaker 1: want to refresh Twitter a million times a day and
43:34
Speaker 1: get every new update of every new detail of every
43:37
Speaker 1: new story, But that does not necessarily translate to you
43:41
Speaker 1: being better informed or a better ally or a better
43:44
Speaker 1: fighter in this movement. So I appreciate you guys making
43:47
Speaker 1: that space to talk about that, because I think it
43:50
Speaker 1: does get erased in the movement. That, like taking care
43:53
Speaker 1: of yourself is very important. I encourage everybody too, It's important.
43:56
Speaker 1: What are you too doing. I'm writing fan fiction and
44:03
Speaker 1: I got a walking treadmill desk, like a really cheap
44:07
Speaker 1: one really cheap. I don't want anyone to be like, wow, no,
44:10
Speaker 1: it's very cheap and small, but it's I like it.
44:14
Speaker 1: It's is it under your desk right now? No, this
44:17
Speaker 1: is my podcast desk, it's under my researches. I use
44:22
Speaker 1: two separate spaces. It sounds like you're so rich and
44:28
Speaker 1: even if it is a small Okay, well I was
44:32
Speaker 1: trying to help you out there. Yes, that's what I'm doing. Yeah,
44:39
Speaker 1: I honestly I don't know. Look, and that's not because
44:43
Speaker 1: I'm not doing things. It's mainly because I am so
44:45
Speaker 1: just organized with my time, because I am at the
44:48
Speaker 1: worst of keeping things separate. So I'll work all the
44:51
Speaker 1: time and then just sit all the time too, So
44:53
Speaker 1: it's like one or the other. But for me a
44:56
Speaker 1: lot of like I am a comfort person, so I'll
44:58
Speaker 1: rewatch things that I I love and know how it's
45:01
Speaker 1: going to turn out, and then bask in that and
45:03
Speaker 1: then also a long cuddle times with my dog. Why
45:06
Speaker 1: does it feel so good to like rewatch the office
45:09
Speaker 1: for the hundred times? Like, like, what is it about
45:11
Speaker 1: it that's so comforting? It feels like friends and because
45:13
Speaker 1: you know it's coming, you're not gonna be shocked or disappointed,
45:17
Speaker 1: or if you're going to be disappointed, you already know
45:18
Speaker 1: it's going to be disappointing, and sometimes you can fast
45:20
Speaker 1: forward through that. Yeah, what's your comfort show? Oh? I
45:24
Speaker 1: have a few. Supernatural has become one, thank you Annie,
45:28
Speaker 1: and I don't know why, but it has become one.
45:30
Speaker 1: But also a New Girl, Parks and Wreck have become
45:34
Speaker 1: a few of them. I watched the weird things like
45:36
Speaker 1: The Flash. I really loved that show, and I just
45:38
Speaker 1: love how genuinely sweet it is. So I watched really
45:41
Speaker 1: silly things like that, and then I'll rewatch movies like
45:43
Speaker 1: you know, Body's Business. I love this. It's like a
45:46
Speaker 1: prescription for self care and comfort. Yeah, and also I
45:50
Speaker 1: just wear soft pants. That's my other comfort, soft pants,
45:53
Speaker 1: dog cuddles, and the television shows you've seen a million
45:56
Speaker 1: times before us sounds great? Well, Bridget what else do
46:02
Speaker 1: you think if we left anything out or if there's
46:04
Speaker 1: more that you resources that you want to provide, is
46:07
Speaker 1: there anything else you want to add? Well, I would
46:09
Speaker 1: say if you want to have more conversations about disinformation
46:12
Speaker 1: and how it pertains to women and folks of color
46:15
Speaker 1: my podcast, there are no girls on the Internet just
46:17
Speaker 1: released a brand new series all about disinformation called Disinformed.
46:21
Speaker 1: You can check it out on this very network I
46:23
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Awesome. Yeah, and definitely do that listeners. Bridget,
46:27
Speaker 1: you want to shout out any any other places that
46:29
Speaker 1: the good listeners can find you. Yes, I'm on Twitter
46:31
Speaker 1: at Bridget Murray and I'm on Instagram at Bridget Murray
46:34
Speaker 1: in d C. Well, thank you as always for being here.
46:38
Speaker 1: You managed to make it a delight even though we're
46:40
Speaker 1: talking about things that are not so delightfule. It's a skill.
46:46
Speaker 1: Thank you. I hope so you know you can. There's
46:48
Speaker 1: always room for humor, even if it's gallows humor. There's
46:51
Speaker 1: always room for humors. Yes, yes, and we very much
46:54
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Can't wait till you're back again. Listeners. If
46:58
Speaker 1: you would like to email as you can emails Stuff
47:00
Speaker 1: Media mom Stuff at I heeart media dot com. You
47:02
Speaker 1: can find us on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You,
47:04
Speaker 1: are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always too,
47:07
Speaker 1: I was super producer, Christina. Hey Christina, and thanks to
47:12
Speaker 1: you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You the production
47:14
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I Heart
47:16
Speaker 1: radio visit that I heard you, app Apple podcasts, or
47:18
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.