Latest / The Jacksonville Jaguars Official Podcast Network / Ep. 59: Former Jaguars LB Tom McManus Dives Into the Jaguars Defense | Jags A.M. Podcast

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Ep. 59: Former Jaguars LB Tom McManus Dives Into the Jaguars Defense | Jags A.M. Podcast · The Jacksonville Jaguars Official Podcast Network

0:18
Speaker 1: Good morning, and welcome to Jags Am. I am Brian
0:22
Speaker 1: Sexton filling in for Kai Stevens. We have a special guest,
0:26
Speaker 1: someone you probably know very well, who's taking my spot.
0:29
Speaker 1: So let's jump right in with the familiar what we know,
0:32
Speaker 1: big things, and we are going to focus on defense today.
0:35
Speaker 1: Last week we got the opportunity to meet the Jaguars
0:38
Speaker 1: new defensive coordinator, Ryan Nielsen. Really interesting guy, with a
0:43
Speaker 1: lot of energy, and that's what you expect from the defense.
0:45
Speaker 1: Right Attacking, going forward was his first message. When you've
0:49
Speaker 1: got a pass rush tandem like Josh Allen and Treyvon Walker,
0:53
Speaker 1: what better thing to do to chase the quarterback.
0:56
Speaker 2: We want to be attacking and aggressive and everything that
0:58
Speaker 2: we do at the run, how we attack blocks, how
1:02
Speaker 2: we play coverage. We want to be a forward, leaning, forward, running,
1:06
Speaker 2: going forward defense. And you're gonna say, well, what about
1:10
Speaker 2: in the secondary and back pedaling out of there, But
1:12
Speaker 2: when we make our break, we're coming out of that
1:13
Speaker 2: break to go hit you. And so that's kind of
1:16
Speaker 2: the you know, the two things that every day that
1:19
Speaker 2: the players come in we want to stress. There's some
1:22
Speaker 2: things fundamental things that tackling takeaways, ball disruption and pursuit,
1:27
Speaker 2: and that's what we're gonna.
1:28
Speaker 1: Be about chasing the quarterback. We just introduce you to
1:33
Speaker 1: our special guest, former Jaguars linebacker Tom McManus, all around
1:37
Speaker 1: good guy broadcaster these days. What'd you think of that
1:40
Speaker 1: thought from him about going and getting the quarterback? Tom?
1:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's the key to the game today, right,
1:45
Speaker 3: You got to disrupt the QB and make sure that
1:47
Speaker 3: timing gets off and he doesn't have all day long
1:50
Speaker 3: to throw, So going forward, attacking, dictating what the defense
1:55
Speaker 3: is gonna do against that offense. I love all of it.
1:58
Speaker 4: Well, it's uh, not surprising, as he said Brian, to
2:01
Speaker 4: hear a defensive coordinator talk about being aggressive. I always
2:05
Speaker 4: joke I want to meet the first one that's not aggressive.
2:07
Speaker 4: But you know, you like the way he stands in
2:10
Speaker 4: front of a room, You like the way he can lead, you,
2:12
Speaker 4: like the way he can set a tone in terms
2:15
Speaker 4: of chasing the quarterback. I think the good news for
2:17
Speaker 4: him Trayvon Walker and Josh Allen, in addition to being
2:21
Speaker 4: really good pass rushers last year, they're always consistent against
2:24
Speaker 4: the run overall players, So he can attack. But he's
2:28
Speaker 4: got two guys there to build around who fill into
2:31
Speaker 4: that philosophy. But they're overall players and I think that's
2:33
Speaker 4: what he's going to like more than anything.
2:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, that sure helps him to lean into the fact
2:37
Speaker 1: that Walker and Allen were the best duo in the
2:40
Speaker 1: NFL last year at attacking the quarterback with twenty seven
2:42
Speaker 1: and a half sacks. Well, look, this is a young
2:45
Speaker 1: quarter a young defensive coordinator, a guy who has been
2:48
Speaker 1: around the block both in college in the NFL, and
2:51
Speaker 1: he had a lot of opportunities, but he chose the Jaguars.
2:54
Speaker 1: And he told us why he thought this was the
2:56
Speaker 1: right place for him.
2:59
Speaker 2: And it's so important you work with good people. And
3:01
Speaker 2: we're so close in this thing, and we spent so
3:03
Speaker 2: many hours a day away from our families with these
3:06
Speaker 2: men in here, and you want to be around good people.
3:09
Speaker 2: And so that was the first thing. And then Trent,
3:12
Speaker 2: you know, you hear the same things, you know, and
3:13
Speaker 2: so you start working your way down mister Kahn, the owner,
3:17
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, what's the organization about, how is
3:20
Speaker 2: the owner? And then didn't know that they built the facility,
3:23
Speaker 2: And then you start doing the roster research and you
3:26
Speaker 2: kind of know a little bit. But then as you
3:27
Speaker 2: start digging into this thing, you're like, you know what,
3:30
Speaker 2: this is a great place. This is a place that
3:32
Speaker 2: we want to bring our family to and be a
3:34
Speaker 2: part of. This is a place that we want to
3:35
Speaker 2: help take the next step.
3:37
Speaker 1: You know, John, the way that last season ended, folks
3:40
Speaker 1: aren't necessarily feeling that energized and enthusiastic right now about
3:44
Speaker 1: this football team. They have more questions than they think
3:47
Speaker 1: they have answers. But when you get an outside guy
3:50
Speaker 1: like Nielsen who comes in here and takes a fresh
3:52
Speaker 1: look and sees the talent the building. As he mentioned,
3:56
Speaker 1: this is an attractive job for anybody that joins this
4:00
Speaker 1: staff for a number of reasons, which should be I mean,
4:04
Speaker 1: they were eight and three last year the Jaguars, and
4:05
Speaker 1: they finished nine and eight, so that cast a paul
4:08
Speaker 1: over everything. But remember they were nine to eight, which
4:11
Speaker 1: means as a defensive coordinator, if he comes in and
4:14
Speaker 1: gives them two more wins.
4:15
Speaker 5: I know it doesn't work that way.
4:16
Speaker 4: But he has to be looking at it like all
4:20
Speaker 4: I need to do is get them a little bit better.
4:22
Speaker 4: I would think he's also looking at the roster of
4:24
Speaker 4: thinking I've got Trayvon Walker. I've got Josh Allen, I've
4:28
Speaker 4: got Devon Hamilton, who was really good before the injury.
4:31
Speaker 4: I've got Foya Lukon, I've got Tyson Campbell. This is
4:34
Speaker 4: not your two thousand and thirteen Jaguars where there's no
4:38
Speaker 4: talent anywhere. I think he looks at it and says,
4:40
Speaker 4: I've got some pieces. If I add a couple more, Tom,
4:43
Speaker 4: I would think this is something you can work with.
4:46
Speaker 3: Oh. Absolutely. Look, I think on the outside John and
4:48
Speaker 3: Brian they have the talent to get it done. I
4:51
Speaker 3: agree with you on Devon Hamilton. I don't know if
4:54
Speaker 3: I like him as that three four nose, but if
4:56
Speaker 3: he can stay healthy and stay low, he can help
4:59
Speaker 3: with Ton. Look you look at even the safeties. Johnny,
5:02
Speaker 3: you got Cisco, you got Jenkins, got Antonio Johnson. You
5:06
Speaker 3: mentioned Campbell. So the back end strong, the backers are strong.
5:09
Speaker 3: We know that we need a little more beef up front,
5:11
Speaker 3: and you can work with that. And I think it's
5:14
Speaker 3: all upside. From coach Nielsen's perspective.
5:17
Speaker 1: Well, we have Tom here today, so obviously our focus
5:19
Speaker 1: is on defense, and there's plenty to talk about. Let's
5:23
Speaker 1: go with our final big thing, and that is influences. Look,
5:27
Speaker 1: when you get a coach, you get the sum total of.
5:30
Speaker 6: All the experience he's had and all the lessons he's
5:32
Speaker 6: learned from the coaches that he played for and coached with,
5:36
Speaker 6: both in college and the pros. And Ryan Nielsen was
5:39
Speaker 6: asked last week about his influences.
5:41
Speaker 1: Who were the men who made the strongest impression on
5:45
Speaker 1: him and that we will see in his schemes on
5:48
Speaker 1: Sunday afternoons.
5:50
Speaker 2: Have been very blessed in that have been around Monti
5:52
Speaker 2: Kiffen and Norm Chow, Alex Gibbs, like all these guys
5:57
Speaker 2: over the years, and just you know, when I was
5:58
Speaker 2: a younger coach, I really didn't I guess understand at
6:04
Speaker 2: the time. I was so young kind of all the
6:07
Speaker 2: knowledge that when we were at Ole Miss and these
6:10
Speaker 2: guys were coming in with you know, Ogeron was the
6:12
Speaker 2: head coach and that man, it was just a football education,
6:16
Speaker 2: and you kind of really didn't until years later you
6:19
Speaker 2: went back into your notes and you're like, man, that's
6:21
Speaker 2: you're very fortunate to be at a place at that time.
6:25
Speaker 1: So Tom the coach comes in, he's got a new scheme, right,
6:29
Speaker 1: and the players don't necessarily know it at this point
6:32
Speaker 1: as a player who went from a couple of different coordinators.
6:35
Speaker 1: What's the hardest part for these players now the expectation
6:39
Speaker 1: of what they'll be asked to do or learning new language.
6:43
Speaker 1: What's the hardest part about coming with a new core.
6:45
Speaker 3: It's adjusted to the new terminology, for sure. You know,
6:48
Speaker 3: you just got to rememorize it's all. You just got
6:50
Speaker 3: to get in the books and study it. Most of
6:52
Speaker 3: the things that defenses are doing today, they all do.
6:55
Speaker 3: They all teams do, you know, a variation of pretty
6:57
Speaker 3: much everything that everybody else does. But yeah, it's really
7:00
Speaker 3: terminology and understanding exactly what coach Nielsen is looking for.
7:05
Speaker 4: You always wonder, Brian, why they don't just have the
7:07
Speaker 4: same language across the board and make it easier on
7:10
Speaker 4: these eyes.
7:10
Speaker 5: But everybody's got their own stuff.
7:13
Speaker 4: Look, he has been around good coaches, Minie Kiffin a
7:17
Speaker 4: lot of cover too. It's hard to know exactly what
7:21
Speaker 4: a guy's gonna run because everything changes so much in
7:25
Speaker 4: the NFLGY everything's the guys have their basic scheme. You
7:28
Speaker 4: get questions all the time about scheme. It changes every
7:32
Speaker 4: year and you have to adapt to your personnel. I
7:34
Speaker 4: think adapting to the personnel you have here is going
7:37
Speaker 4: to be the key form and everything he talked about,
7:40
Speaker 4: he'll be able to do that.
7:41
Speaker 1: Brian, there are some thoughts from the introductory press conference
7:44
Speaker 1: from Ryan Nielsen last Thursday. When we come back, we'll
7:47
Speaker 1: dive a little bit deeper into some of the topics
7:50
Speaker 1: and issues that he faces as he goes forward as
7:52
Speaker 1: the new defensive coordinator of the Jaguars. All that and more,
7:56
Speaker 1: jags Am continues Kevin, Welcome back to jags Am on
8:07
Speaker 1: a Tuesday morning in Jacksonville. And by the way, folks,
8:11
Speaker 1: if you're ready to help the Jaguars lock down the
8:13
Speaker 1: bank in twenty twenty four, you could be first in
8:16
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8:19
Speaker 1: your deposit. Now catch all the biggest matchups and don't
8:23
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8:26
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8:28
Speaker 1: in the ticketing office nine oh four six three three
8:32
Speaker 1: two thousand. Tell them. John Osier told at the call,
8:36
Speaker 1: all right, we are rolling right along, you know. We
8:38
Speaker 1: were just talking about the different schemes and influences that
8:42
Speaker 1: a defensive coordinator brings in. You know, he talked about
8:45
Speaker 1: Monte Kiffen and the first thing that pops into my mind,
8:47
Speaker 1: guys want to hear mont Kiffin is Tampa two. Yeah? Absolutely,
8:50
Speaker 1: And do you so do you expect with the talent
8:52
Speaker 1: that he's got here? Explain what the talent that the
8:54
Speaker 1: Tampa two is?
8:54
Speaker 3: Well, the Tampa two is a coverage is Cover two
8:56
Speaker 3: which is usually press corners with you know, corner on
9:00
Speaker 3: each half, right, So he cut it in two for
9:02
Speaker 3: the most part of the back end. But the old
9:04
Speaker 3: Mandy Kiffen was we stopped the run on the way
9:07
Speaker 3: to the quarterback. So that's interesting, you know, the going
9:09
Speaker 3: forward comment, moving forward dictating that may make some sense.
9:13
Speaker 3: Now do we have the the personnel? I don't know.
9:17
Speaker 3: Do we have a warrant SAP type on the team
9:19
Speaker 3: right now? Do we have a booger McFarlane? You know
9:21
Speaker 3: what I mean? If we're gonna run that four to
9:23
Speaker 3: three cover two? Do we have those pieces in place?
9:27
Speaker 1: By type? Do you mean Hall of Fame type like horns?
9:30
Speaker 3: Just disruptive type? You know, you know I've said this
9:33
Speaker 3: for a long time. I think Devon Hamilton would be
9:36
Speaker 3: a tremendous three technique and a four to three. Put
9:38
Speaker 3: him on a guard where he's not getting banged by
9:41
Speaker 3: two guys. You know, when you're three four notes, you're
9:43
Speaker 3: getting hit by the guard the center every single play.
9:46
Speaker 3: Put him one on one for some place against that guard.
9:48
Speaker 3: Let's see what he can do.
9:49
Speaker 5: Yeah.
9:50
Speaker 4: The key of Tampa two also is don't like to
9:53
Speaker 4: blitz a whole lot. You assume that your four man
9:56
Speaker 4: rush can get there. I don't know exactly what front
9:59
Speaker 4: he'll you is. The fronts have changed so much in terms.
10:02
Speaker 4: Back in the old Tampa two you had four and
10:04
Speaker 4: you played seven. Back now everybody's doing hybrid so much
10:08
Speaker 4: that it's not really like that anymore.
10:10
Speaker 5: But they've got two guys on the edge who can
10:12
Speaker 5: disrupt the quarterback.
10:13
Speaker 1: Well, let's hear more from Ryan Nielsen from his news
10:15
Speaker 1: conference last week, and in particular, he talked about some
10:18
Speaker 1: of the things that the Jags did well. One of
10:20
Speaker 1: them was taking the ball away and when the Jaguars
10:23
Speaker 1: were winning last year, guys, the Jaguars defense was piling
10:26
Speaker 1: them up near the top of the league. He couldn't
10:29
Speaker 1: miss it when he turned on the tape.
10:31
Speaker 2: We want to be an attacking, aggressive style, of defense
10:35
Speaker 2: that runs the ball, you know, that goes and hunts
10:37
Speaker 2: the ball, you know, and just put the pressure on
10:40
Speaker 2: the offense.
10:40
Speaker 1: You know.
10:41
Speaker 2: That's just what that we feel that we can bring.
10:43
Speaker 2: That's just the style that we want to play. And
10:44
Speaker 2: so we feel that, you know, when we talked to
10:48
Speaker 2: coach Peterson and you know, compliments what we're doing on offense,
10:51
Speaker 2: and we want to be very complimentary to the other
10:54
Speaker 2: side of the ball and you know, get them the
10:57
Speaker 2: ball as much as possible and Trevor and you know,
10:58
Speaker 2: because they've got a lot of talent over there and
11:00
Speaker 2: they're very good. And so look, we just want to
11:03
Speaker 2: do our job and get the ball back to them
11:05
Speaker 2: as many times as possible. And when we do that,
11:07
Speaker 2: we'll win a lot of games.
11:09
Speaker 5: I think the key is this team is set up
11:15
Speaker 5: and to score and be an offensive team.
11:21
Speaker 4: Ideally, Ryan Nielsen does not have to come in and
11:24
Speaker 4: have this be a top five defense to be great.
11:28
Speaker 4: I'm not saying, you know, you should grate him on
11:30
Speaker 4: a curve or whatever, but the defense overall, until very
11:34
Speaker 4: of the season played well enough. I think what he
11:36
Speaker 4: said is exactly right. If they break serve a couple
11:39
Speaker 4: of times, I always use that analogy. If this defense
11:44
Speaker 4: gets turned two turnovers a game and just doesn't give up,
11:49
Speaker 4: just get way laid everywhere else, the offense is supposed
11:53
Speaker 4: to do enough to work with that. So I definitely
11:55
Speaker 4: think he can come in be a turnover oriented team,
11:59
Speaker 4: get the twenties seven or twenty eight that they've been
12:01
Speaker 4: doing in the last couple of years, stopped the run
12:03
Speaker 4: a little better. I'll season, and I say his job
12:08
Speaker 4: in hard, but I think it's it's an attainable goal
12:12
Speaker 4: to be a good enough defense if the offense improves.
12:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with that.
12:16
Speaker 4: I did.
12:16
Speaker 3: Look, I think for me, it's more the the accountability.
12:20
Speaker 3: You know, it's more like, you know, when you screw up,
12:23
Speaker 3: you gotta be held accountable.
12:24
Speaker 1: You know.
12:24
Speaker 3: There are too many miscues last year on defense, too
12:27
Speaker 3: many missed assignments. I think when they were doing well,
12:30
Speaker 3: consistent pressure because that you can be aggressive in your coverage,
12:34
Speaker 3: you can attack the ball a little bit more. And
12:36
Speaker 3: one thing I noticed, because I take stats all throughout
12:39
Speaker 3: the year, third down was very good all year long
12:41
Speaker 3: for this defense. They got off the field that they're granted,
12:43
Speaker 3: our offense was a very good so that didn't help
12:46
Speaker 3: takeaways work phenomenal yards per carry against were very good
12:51
Speaker 3: early and through the middle, and then all of a
12:52
Speaker 3: sudden it went from three point six to three point
12:55
Speaker 3: eight yards per carry to four to four point two.
12:58
Speaker 3: And you could just see that that was happening throughout
13:00
Speaker 3: the end. You get, Look, we all want to hit
13:02
Speaker 3: the quarterback, we all want to disrupt that all, but
13:04
Speaker 3: the end of the day, you gotta stop the run,
13:07
Speaker 3: at least control the run where it doesn't control you
13:09
Speaker 3: and taking time off the clock and you can't get.
13:12
Speaker 1: Off the field. I'm sure you have a thought on
13:13
Speaker 1: what you watched on tape as to what happened and
13:15
Speaker 1: why that number kept climbing.
13:18
Speaker 3: I think I think it was attitude, I really do.
13:21
Speaker 3: And look, I think it happened in Philly too. You know,
13:24
Speaker 3: you get up here, you're the number one seed. Maybe
13:26
Speaker 3: you don't put in that extra effort, Maybe you don't
13:29
Speaker 3: hit the weights that much, maybe you're not studying as much.
13:32
Speaker 3: Maybe you think you're just talented enough to show up. Well,
13:35
Speaker 3: guess what, the offensive coordinator on the other side, he's
13:38
Speaker 3: studying you, dissecting you, finding your weakness, and he'll find
13:41
Speaker 3: it if you allow it to show up. So I
13:44
Speaker 3: think it's more mental, more attitude. I think they've had
13:47
Speaker 3: enough talent in twenty twenty three to be a contender.
13:50
Speaker 3: But you gotta have you gotta be on point. You
13:52
Speaker 3: can't have giveaways, and you can't be you know, having
13:55
Speaker 3: missed assignments.
13:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, the run defense has to get better. The pass
13:59
Speaker 1: rush is the thing that they were able to hang
14:01
Speaker 1: their hats on, especially late in the season as Trayvon
14:04
Speaker 1: Walker was coming on to compliment Josh Allen, and the
14:07
Speaker 1: new defensive coordinator certainly noticed that when he turned on
14:09
Speaker 1: the table.
14:10
Speaker 2: I think they were talented. We've got a talented group.
14:14
Speaker 2: We've got some really good players in that and that's
14:17
Speaker 2: what was excited and attracted us about the job here.
14:21
Speaker 2: But look, talent only gets you so far, right, and
14:24
Speaker 2: so we're really excited to get to work with these guys.
14:27
Speaker 2: They seem very eager. You know, you try to reach
14:29
Speaker 2: out and just introductions, Hello, how you doing, you know,
14:32
Speaker 2: introduce yourself things like that, and the staff and the
14:34
Speaker 2: guys are seemed very eager and to get going.
14:38
Speaker 4: I would ask the former linebacker question, first of all,
14:41
Speaker 4: in terms of accountability, that was the problem when you
14:42
Speaker 4: played the coach didn't held anyboy account.
14:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, right, I'm scared of that.
14:48
Speaker 4: But you mentioned the run defense. You know so much
14:53
Speaker 4: you always hear about you have mentioned me maybe off
14:56
Speaker 4: the air to day.
14:57
Speaker 5: It's got to be a little simpler on defense.
15:00
Speaker 4: With so much at the end of the season about
15:02
Speaker 4: jumping out of gaps, which I think was a big
15:05
Speaker 4: problem too, how much simpler can you make playing the run.
15:10
Speaker 5: Is that something that can be done and you think
15:12
Speaker 5: that'll happen?
15:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I think the fronts aren't. They're pretty simple.
15:15
Speaker 3: I think with the coverages can get complex where you're
15:19
Speaker 3: going from zone to man, you know, whatever you're doing
15:22
Speaker 3: out there. So I don't think the fronts. You know,
15:24
Speaker 3: gap integrity. I hear that a lot of times. Gap integrity,
15:27
Speaker 3: you're getting moved out of your gap. They're just taking
15:29
Speaker 3: you and moving you. Doesn't happen all the time, but
15:32
Speaker 3: it happened too much last year, and I know as
15:34
Speaker 3: a former backer. Look, you can't play the run when
15:37
Speaker 3: your d linemen are getting pushed back. You just can't.
15:39
Speaker 3: Whether it's a yard two yards, if they're in your lap,
15:42
Speaker 3: Now you gotta guess, Now, you gotta you know, try
15:44
Speaker 3: to you know, if you can't see the back and
15:46
Speaker 3: I remember Ben Coleman in practices come out, he was
15:48
Speaker 3: like the eclipsed the sun. I couldn't see anyblady. You'd
15:51
Speaker 3: have to like look around him. But in a game,
15:54
Speaker 3: you gotta make it a seat. If you jump in
15:56
Speaker 3: the wrong then they go to the other side, you
15:58
Speaker 3: know what I mean. But it all starts up front,
16:00
Speaker 3: and if that defensive lineman line as a general, the
16:04
Speaker 3: interior guys can just hold it will serve if you
16:07
Speaker 3: will not, Hey, I don't look. Yeah, I want you
16:10
Speaker 3: to disrupt. But if you don't disrupt my outside guy, yeah,
16:15
Speaker 3: just stand there like, don't get pushed back into my
16:17
Speaker 3: backers and my safeties, and we'll have a chance to
16:20
Speaker 3: be better against lar.
16:20
Speaker 1: Right, you mentioned man versus zone. John. I know you've
16:22
Speaker 1: been getting questions in the ozone about philosophy and which
16:25
Speaker 1: one better fits the Jags, which one will Ryan Nielson used.
16:29
Speaker 1: It was one of the first questions he was asked
16:30
Speaker 1: last week.
16:32
Speaker 2: As one of our coaches. Would like to say, nothing
16:35
Speaker 2: cheap and nothing deep. And so when you're press, you
16:37
Speaker 2: take away the quick game and we like to play shell,
16:40
Speaker 2: which everybody you know, when you look at us, we
16:42
Speaker 2: you know, take away the deep throws. It may look
16:45
Speaker 2: man man or man ish at times, but sometimes there's
16:49
Speaker 2: some press bail and some nuances in the coverage of that.
16:52
Speaker 2: It actually is zoned with tighter coverage outside, and so
16:58
Speaker 2: that's actually good that you see it like that, because
17:01
Speaker 2: if we're viewed like that, then we drop into zone.
17:03
Speaker 2: It could be advantageous for us on defense, John, do
17:10
Speaker 2: you see.
17:11
Speaker 1: The defensive backfielders being a first round need for this team?
17:15
Speaker 1: I know we see some mock drafts that have them
17:17
Speaker 1: taking a quarterback. There are a couple of good ones
17:20
Speaker 1: that fit where they are in the middle of the
17:22
Speaker 1: first round. Do you think it's that critical or can
17:25
Speaker 1: they win with what they've got right now and keep
17:28
Speaker 1: developing Young Town?
17:29
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know that it's I'm looking at the
17:32
Speaker 4: draft a little differently. I try to look at it
17:34
Speaker 4: through GM's eyes. I don't think it's a first round
17:37
Speaker 4: need in twenty twenty four, but I think it's a
17:41
Speaker 4: first round need at some point over the next two years,
17:44
Speaker 4: and you might draft it in twenty four knowing it's
17:46
Speaker 4: going to be in need, meaning Tyson Campbell and Darius
17:49
Speaker 4: Wims of both in the last year of their contract.
17:51
Speaker 4: I don't know that realistically, you're not going to re
17:54
Speaker 4: sign two corners to big money. So if there's somebody
17:58
Speaker 4: there at seventeen who makes sense and you can move
18:00
Speaker 4: into the nickel and be really really strong for a year,
18:02
Speaker 4: then move them out. So I think it's a first
18:05
Speaker 4: You've got to address it at some point, and if
18:07
Speaker 4: the right guys there, then I think you take it
18:10
Speaker 4: this year. I guess I would say it wouldn't bother
18:13
Speaker 4: me if they did it, because you're strengthening an area
18:15
Speaker 4: that has to be stronger the long term. But I
18:18
Speaker 4: could see how they could say, well, it's not there
18:21
Speaker 4: right now, we have to wait till next year. Not
18:24
Speaker 4: avoiding the question, I just think that's how they'll look at.
18:26
Speaker 1: Well, we spend so much time talking about big guys, right,
18:28
Speaker 1: I mean, this team needs more big, physical guys on
18:31
Speaker 1: both sides of the line. We talked about that since
18:33
Speaker 1: this show began. However, in today's game, the way that
18:36
Speaker 1: it's played, you've got to have those corners that you
18:39
Speaker 1: could put out there and say that's your guy.
18:41
Speaker 3: Oh, without a doubt. But look, I think Tyson Campbell
18:44
Speaker 3: is the guy that injury bothered him. And look, if
18:47
Speaker 3: a soft tissue injury doesn't heal, you can't open the gate.
18:50
Speaker 3: And as a corner, you can't open your gate, you're
18:53
Speaker 3: gonna be off coverage. So again I'm more of a believer.
18:56
Speaker 3: And by the way, when you play that tampa to
18:58
Speaker 3: or that cover two press, like man, you know you're
19:01
Speaker 3: gonna release them eventually, But during your zone, you were
19:04
Speaker 3: glued to that that player until he gets out of
19:06
Speaker 3: your zone. Happens for linebackers too. If the tight end
19:09
Speaker 3: runs up the field, you gotta carryim. He's your guy
19:11
Speaker 3: for the rest of that place. So there are some, man,
19:14
Speaker 3: you know, zone principles. But look, I think it does
19:17
Speaker 3: start up front. But if you are gonna play that press,
19:21
Speaker 3: your corner's gotta be able to press. What does that
19:23
Speaker 3: mean getting their hands on that wide receiver, not letting
19:26
Speaker 3: them off the line of scrimmage freely and disrupting that
19:29
Speaker 3: timing between him and the quarterbacks.
19:31
Speaker 1: All right, Well, the combine begins next week. John will
19:33
Speaker 1: be there covering it for us, and so we'll turn
19:35
Speaker 1: our attention to what the Jaguars might be focusing on
19:38
Speaker 1: next week, and we'll also get caught up on what
19:40
Speaker 1: Tommy Max up to these days and his broadcasting career.
19:43
Speaker 1: You're watching jags Am. We're back with more right after this.
19:55
Speaker 1: We're back on jags Am Brian Sexton along with John
19:58
Speaker 1: Osier and log Tye. Drags linebacker Tom mcmahmons.
20:02
Speaker 4: I've got a question for the former player. Usually it's you,
20:04
Speaker 4: me and Kai. We didn't play football. I mean he
20:06
Speaker 4: played football. Your big sack in the state championship game.
20:10
Speaker 4: He never mentioned that, but I really don't you mentioned that.
20:16
Speaker 4: Tyson Campbell and so many injuries at the end of
20:19
Speaker 4: last year, and fans hate hearing about injuries, but Trevor
20:24
Speaker 4: Lawrence playing through at the end of last year. I
20:27
Speaker 4: know you can't judge, you can't get inside players, but
20:31
Speaker 4: how much do injuries when you're trying to play through
20:35
Speaker 4: Is it realistic to think they're just not gonna affect
20:37
Speaker 4: I mean, there's guys who can play and play effectively,
20:39
Speaker 4: but as a player, when you're playing through that how
20:43
Speaker 4: difficult When you look at players, how much do you
20:46
Speaker 4: factor that in of Okay, that guy is trying to
20:49
Speaker 4: play through something.
20:50
Speaker 3: It depends on the injury, right, Like if it's a
20:52
Speaker 3: hamstring Terry. That's going to be tough to come back
20:55
Speaker 3: from if you tore your bicep, you know, from your shoulder,
20:58
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. But you can still play
21:00
Speaker 3: maybe a factor that it can do. You have the
21:01
Speaker 3: strength to punch, you know, you have the strength to
21:04
Speaker 3: get your hands on people. So it really depends.
21:06
Speaker 1: I mean.
21:06
Speaker 3: But here's the thing, like, and I know maybe today's
21:09
Speaker 3: day and age they can't do it, but our backups
21:12
Speaker 3: back in the day could play. I mean we might
21:14
Speaker 3: not have been superstar guys, but if the starter went down,
21:17
Speaker 3: the backup came in and you almost did miss a beat,
21:20
Speaker 3: you know. So where's that depth when that that you know,
21:24
Speaker 3: those injuries do occur, because they're gonna occur, they always occur,
21:27
Speaker 3: but you better make sure you got someone that could
21:29
Speaker 3: jump into that role and at least fill the rim,
21:32
Speaker 3: you know, up to the rim as close as they can.
21:34
Speaker 5: Well.
21:34
Speaker 1: Back when you were playing also, I mean you had
21:36
Speaker 1: Brian Schwartz and Brand Boyer and Kevin Hardy and then
21:39
Speaker 1: he had Ty Halleck and people might forget that Ty
21:41
Speaker 1: Hallick was playing full back, tight end and line. Yeah,
21:43
Speaker 1: and when you got hurt, he had to jump on
21:45
Speaker 1: the other side of the ball.
21:46
Speaker 3: That's right, and play absolutely, guys have to be vers
21:49
Speaker 3: multi yeah, yeah, no doubt. But uh, it depends to
21:52
Speaker 3: back your question. It depends on the injury. Mean, look,
21:55
Speaker 3: I don't want to go to old school with the
21:57
Speaker 3: difference between pain and injury, right, you know, but there
22:00
Speaker 3: are Look I wonder like if if if Brandon Sheriff
22:03
Speaker 3: was just so banged up that the you know, if
22:07
Speaker 3: you've ever had really bad pain, it weakens the muscle.
22:11
Speaker 3: I mean, I've had the torn by since all that,
22:12
Speaker 3: it'll just weaken it, like you don't have the same
22:15
Speaker 3: you know, power and explosion is if you have. But again,
22:18
Speaker 3: it depends on the severity of the injury and what.
22:20
Speaker 5: The injury and Jasin doesn't play through.
22:22
Speaker 4: I mean, you had Trevor playing five games last year
22:26
Speaker 4: through injuries.
22:27
Speaker 5: Every time you.
22:28
Speaker 4: Gotta be out there, but at some point it's got
22:31
Speaker 4: to affect your level as well, and I guess that's
22:33
Speaker 4: the uh yeah, that's why you play the games.
22:35
Speaker 3: I think for most players, you find out all you
22:38
Speaker 3: can on the injury front. Can I make it worse?
22:41
Speaker 3: And if I don't, if I can't make it worse,
22:43
Speaker 3: can I handle the pain? If I can handle the pain,
22:45
Speaker 3: I'm playing no matter what.
22:46
Speaker 1: All right, what are you up to these days? I
22:47
Speaker 1: see the horse's mouth. I know you're doing some of that.
22:50
Speaker 1: Yeah horse's mouth.
22:51
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, straight from the horse's mouth, you know. So like,
22:54
Speaker 3: you get a chance to sit at my bar. I'm
22:56
Speaker 3: a bartender, Tommy Max. It's a makeshift bar at San Marco,
23:00
Speaker 3: and you get to tell your story. You know, it's
23:02
Speaker 3: which is great. So it doesn't cost you anything to
23:04
Speaker 3: show up. You sit at my bar. We have a beer, water, coffee, whatever,
23:07
Speaker 3: even whiskey if you want. It's up to you. And
23:10
Speaker 3: we talk about what you're doing in our community. And
23:12
Speaker 3: I love that show because every we do military entrepreneurs, philanthropists,
23:18
Speaker 3: sea level executives, sports people, you're on Dave Camp. I mean,
23:21
Speaker 3: it's just a good variety of a show. I also
23:24
Speaker 3: do a podcast called Catching Up with Tommy Mack on
23:27
Speaker 3: ten ten XLS podcast platform. I do that twice a week.
23:30
Speaker 3: That's really just me talking about the jags. More of
23:33
Speaker 3: an editorial. I read and react kind of like you're
23:35
Speaker 3: supposed to see back or I'm trying. I'm trying.
23:39
Speaker 1: But are you ever animated? Or you always a subject.
23:41
Speaker 3: No, no, you know how Yeah, Like I get excited, man,
23:43
Speaker 3: I love I love talking about Paul John.
23:45
Speaker 1: A couple of weeks ago, we were out at at
23:49
Speaker 1: a burger place, right yeah, and Kevin Hardy was there.
23:53
Speaker 1: There were a bunch of former players. Pete Mitchell was there.
23:56
Speaker 1: That that's a Facebook thing that you that's.
23:59
Speaker 3: That a new show. It's called Tommy Max Happy Hours.
24:02
Speaker 3: So we did at the Graffiti Burger Bar in Jacks
24:04
Speaker 3: Beach and we did it pretty much all season on.
24:07
Speaker 3: Aaron Beasley Killer Bees my co host, and then we
24:10
Speaker 3: bring on guests like you were there every every single
24:13
Speaker 3: week and we just that show you were on the
24:16
Speaker 3: last one that was the finale of season one. Season
24:18
Speaker 3: two is coming up in about two three weeks now.
24:20
Speaker 3: It's just in the bar.
24:21
Speaker 1: You're gonna go behind the scenes and follow Beasley somewhere
24:24
Speaker 1: doing something with that guy.
24:25
Speaker 3: You gotta follow him around because he's got it. He's
24:27
Speaker 3: got a ton going on, and he brings a lot
24:29
Speaker 3: of just great charisma and knowledge and he's one of
24:33
Speaker 3: my good buddies, so I love having him on the show.
24:35
Speaker 1: It was all a bunch of former Jags the early days.
24:38
Speaker 5: It was a nostalgia best John Well and guys stay.
24:43
Speaker 4: And I'm sure for you, Tom, that's a great thing
24:46
Speaker 4: and you're probably used to it by now because you've.
24:49
Speaker 5: Been in Jacksonville.
24:51
Speaker 4: Doesn't happen everywhere, but so many guys stay that I'm
24:53
Speaker 4: sure it's a great community for you.
24:55
Speaker 1: You know.
24:55
Speaker 3: Look, and I've said this to Brian. That's why I
24:57
Speaker 3: love Jacksonville so much. It was more than just playing
24:59
Speaker 3: for the Jags, although that got me here. I met
25:02
Speaker 3: my wife here, I live here. This is I've lived
25:05
Speaker 3: here longer than I've ever lived anywhere else. I love
25:07
Speaker 3: Chicago where I'm front. I loved when I spent my
25:09
Speaker 3: time in Boston. But I've been at Jacksonville for almost
25:12
Speaker 3: I don't know, twenty five years now, if not long
25:15
Speaker 3: twenty eight years, I think it is. And it's a
25:18
Speaker 3: great community. I love the people, I love the fans,
25:21
Speaker 3: I love the teams here. And for me to be
25:23
Speaker 3: able to go out there and talk about what I
25:25
Speaker 3: love talking about, you know, in the place that I played,
25:29
Speaker 3: it's fantastic.
25:29
Speaker 1: You showed up in Jacksonville twenty nine years twenty nine.
25:32
Speaker 1: One more thing you mentioned to me last week when
25:34
Speaker 1: we were having coffee. You're starting to work again on
25:36
Speaker 1: a documentary idea about the book you wrote about your father,
25:39
Speaker 1: who was shot down during World War Two and was
25:41
Speaker 1: part of a dramatic experience in a prison camp.
25:46
Speaker 3: Yeah. All. At the age of twenty three twenty four,
25:49
Speaker 3: he was playing football at Rutgers in the day after
25:52
Speaker 3: pro Harvard. He left Rutgers and joined the Army Air Corps,
25:56
Speaker 3: learned to fly the B twenty four bomber. Eventually got
25:58
Speaker 3: his crew and on their twenty third mission, they were
26:01
Speaker 3: shot down over head of the Munich and he spent
26:03
Speaker 3: eleven months in a prison war camp, various ones. They
26:06
Speaker 3: had to move him a couple of times because the
26:08
Speaker 3: end of the war was coming and liberated by General
26:11
Speaker 3: Patton's Third Armored Division. Came home and went back to Rutgers.
26:15
Speaker 3: Played leather helmet football for two more years, and his
26:18
Speaker 3: last game. I'm very proud to say this, my dad's
26:20
Speaker 3: last football game was he was a member of the
26:23
Speaker 3: Eastern College All Stars. They played the New York Giants
26:26
Speaker 3: and the Polo Grounds in nineteen forty seven. Doc Blanchard
26:30
Speaker 3: was his teammate and so is Ernie Davis, and they
26:32
Speaker 3: got a nice photo of him and an article that
26:35
Speaker 3: talks about my dad and Doc Blanchard days.
26:37
Speaker 1: It's really pretty. It's a great book.
26:39
Speaker 3: I Will Always Be Pals the last words of a
26:43
Speaker 3: dying father and a true hero. Literally the last words
26:46
Speaker 3: my dad said to me before he died of cancer.
26:48
Speaker 3: Him and I were really close. We were fifty years
26:51
Speaker 3: apart with best friends, and I got a chance say goodbye,
26:54
Speaker 3: though man, I really appreciate it being able to say
26:55
Speaker 3: I love you, thank you, I'll take care of Ma,
26:58
Speaker 3: kissed him goodbye, hugged him goodbye, and that was the
27:00
Speaker 3: last woman I had with him before he does.
27:02
Speaker 1: We'll Always be Palace. Check it out. I read it
27:04
Speaker 1: years ago. We did a story on TV about it,
27:05
Speaker 1: and hopefully a documentary is forthcoming. When we come back.
27:09
Speaker 1: We'll get a couple of thoughts and what John's looking
27:11
Speaker 1: at at the combine next week and wrap up this
27:13
Speaker 1: edition with Tommy Mack as our special guest. You're watching
27:16
Speaker 1: jags Am.
27:28
Speaker 2: We took the family down, we took him down to
27:31
Speaker 2: Disney World and we were on the Small World and
27:34
Speaker 2: eventually the Slip got granted permission for the Slip and
27:40
Speaker 2: so we're sitting on I've got our kids and my
27:42
Speaker 2: wife's on the other end, and we just sat down
27:45
Speaker 2: on the boat and got a text from coach Peterson
27:48
Speaker 2: basically said hey Ryan as coach and would like to
27:51
Speaker 2: talk to you. You know that type of deal.
27:53
Speaker 5: And I looked at my wife and I'm like, how.
27:56
Speaker 1: Long is this going to be? Like I got to
27:58
Speaker 1: make a call, right and so you don't realize I
28:02
Speaker 1: was on.
28:02
Speaker 2: I can't remember last time I was on a Small World,
28:04
Speaker 2: but it seemed about half an hour that ride and
28:07
Speaker 2: eventually got off and it worked out.
28:11
Speaker 1: I remember the last time I was on It's a
28:13
Speaker 1: Small World, and it seemed like a half an hour. Rock.
28:15
Speaker 5: Yeah, it seems I manage waiting for a job off.
28:17
Speaker 1: Or not, it's long, no matter what. All right, we
28:21
Speaker 1: mentioned that you're going to Indianapolis. You and JP will
28:23
Speaker 1: have this show next week from Indie jags am from
28:26
Speaker 1: the NFL Combine next week. Are you going up there
28:30
Speaker 1: with the idea that you're going to specifically look at
28:32
Speaker 1: different groups or players? Where's your attention?
28:35
Speaker 5: Not as much, I mean we look at that.
28:37
Speaker 4: Our primary objective covering the combine is that to talk
28:40
Speaker 4: to our guys, meaning Doug and Trent. I will speak,
28:44
Speaker 4: and you try to glean sort of where the franchise
28:48
Speaker 4: is headed right now, because if you think about it,
28:50
Speaker 4: Trent and Doug have really talked about wrap up, which
28:53
Speaker 4: is sort of looking back now they've had some meetings.
28:56
Speaker 4: I don't expect Trent to pull me aside and say, hey,
28:58
Speaker 4: we're drafted, but you get an idea about sort of
29:01
Speaker 4: what they're looking at.
29:02
Speaker 5: They've made a few more decisions. They might hint at
29:05
Speaker 5: a few things that they couldn't hint at two or
29:07
Speaker 5: three weeks ago.
29:08
Speaker 4: Beyond that, you sort of watch the drills where you
29:11
Speaker 4: can quarterback won't be a thing, but you know, I
29:15
Speaker 4: start to try to get a feel from talking to
29:17
Speaker 4: people about certain draft picks, about certain positions offensive line,
29:22
Speaker 4: defensive interior, which Tom wants, and you know I'll be
29:25
Speaker 4: looking at corners as well.
29:26
Speaker 1: And from your perspective, when you think about the combine,
29:30
Speaker 1: you go back and what's that like from the players?
29:32
Speaker 3: Well, I was never invited to the combine. My slow
29:34
Speaker 3: ass was invited. I look better at pads than I
29:37
Speaker 3: did pads. But I do like watching the combine and
29:41
Speaker 3: I really like watching the drills because you can see
29:44
Speaker 3: their movement, look It's one thing to move on your own,
29:47
Speaker 3: it's another thing to move on command, you know what
29:49
Speaker 3: I mean, where it's you got to react and instinctly move.
29:53
Speaker 3: So I love looking all all the positions. I do
29:55
Speaker 3: like watching the QBS throw just to I don't put
29:57
Speaker 3: too much stock into it, but I do like to
29:59
Speaker 3: see that release in that arm and see where they
30:02
Speaker 3: place it. But yeah, for me, it's all look and
30:05
Speaker 3: I think it's a cliche. The measurables got to match
30:09
Speaker 3: the tape, and maybe they don't always do right. So
30:11
Speaker 3: you just gotta be really careful what you see out
30:13
Speaker 3: there in the combine that it translates to what it
30:16
Speaker 3: does in the football. I if you don't want to
30:18
Speaker 3: looks like Tarzan, play like Jade type scenarios.
30:21
Speaker 1: I love that.
30:22
Speaker 4: And one thing coaches always look at is even beyond
30:26
Speaker 4: what they're doing on the field. A lot of coaches
30:28
Speaker 4: that have been around like to look at how they're
30:30
Speaker 4: interacting with their group, whether their leaders or not, whether
30:34
Speaker 4: they're comfortable in that situation. And you do see differences
30:38
Speaker 4: in terms of if a guy's a natural leader, so
30:43
Speaker 4: they're always on display and always being watched it this.
30:46
Speaker 3: Day, if a psyche of a player. You don't know
30:48
Speaker 3: until you get them in. You know, to feel for
30:51
Speaker 3: a guy, you got to get a good feel for.
30:52
Speaker 3: Are they my kind of player? The kind of guy
30:55
Speaker 3: that's got grit, that's gonna work, that's gonna be able
30:58
Speaker 3: to handle adversity, that's always got to bring his a game,
31:01
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. And guys who put on
31:02
Speaker 3: shows in those interviews, right, they're like trying to put
31:05
Speaker 3: their best foot forward. But when you get them in
31:07
Speaker 3: to your facility, to your team, that's when you hope
31:10
Speaker 3: that you hit them on that regard. You may see
31:12
Speaker 3: him on film, looks good on film, looks good in
31:14
Speaker 3: the you know, the measurables. But man, I hope he's
31:18
Speaker 3: as tough as he is good on those other two things,
31:20
Speaker 3: if you know.
31:20
Speaker 2: What I mean.
31:21
Speaker 1: Look, you're here or you're in Indy. Next week. By
31:23
Speaker 1: the time you're here again, we'll be talking about the
31:25
Speaker 1: start of free agency, which is just three weeks away,
31:28
Speaker 1: and we still have that we can tell. By this Moile,
31:31
Speaker 1: we still have the story of Josh Allen and Calvin Ridley,
31:34
Speaker 1: and hopefully we have some resolution as we get closer
31:37
Speaker 1: to it. Tom, thanks so much for me, thank you,
31:41
Speaker 1: and that'll do it for jags Am again. Next Tuesday,
31:44
Speaker 1: the show comes to you live from the Indian at
31:46
Speaker 1: a convention center side of the twenty twenty four NFL combine.
31:50
Speaker 1: Jathon Scheindrick will host. John Osier will be there, and
31:53
Speaker 1: we'll see you next week on jags Am.