Latest / Roast the Post Podcast / Director of First Impressions: Hold for Mr. Draper, Please.

Transcript

Director of First Impressions: Hold for Mr. Draper, Please. · Roast the Post Podcast

0:09
SPEAKER_00: So this week I am the host of Roast the Post, and Paul has not seen the
0:17
SPEAKER_00: job ad that I have selected.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: So this is going to be all brand new information.
0:21
And I mentioned on Substack earlier that I messaged Paul ahead
0:24
of time
0:25
SPEAKER_00: saying that I was really excited for this one.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: and I also have to say
0:29
that I don't know if anyone's familiar with the show It's
0:31
Allways Sunny in
0:32
Philadelphia,
0:32
but if you if you are and you know that scene where Charlie is
0:36
doing his whole conspiracy theory thing,
0:39
with like all the mapping out and
0:41
SPEAKER_00: like the red the red thread everywhere, that's what I was doing right up
0:46
SPEAKER_00: until we went live.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: I went deep on this one.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: And I'm a little bit like
0:54
still my head is still swirling around,
0:55
but I'm really proud of my sleuthing
0:58
SPEAKER_00: work that I was able to do.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: We don't name and shame, so we're not going to
1:01
SPEAKER_00: name the company.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: but I figured out the company because this one is
1:05
SPEAKER_00: actually posted by a third party recruiter on behalf of their client.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: And
1:10
SPEAKER_00: so in that situation, you don't really have a lot of information.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: but boy,
1:16
SPEAKER_00: did I go for it.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: I found the information.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: So, I mean to do what
1:22
SPEAKER_00: with no idea.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to know and now I do.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: So,
1:28
SPEAKER_00: my interest is absolutely piqued.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: So, I'm in a bit of a state right
1:31
SPEAKER_00: now.
1:31
So,
1:31
what what we do at the top of the show is our sizzle reel
1:35
really about
1:38
SPEAKER_00: what this this episode is going to be about.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: So, I'm going to go ahead and
1:42
SPEAKER_00: read what it is that I wrote to kind of warm us up and get us ready the
1:47
SPEAKER_00: right state of mind.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: So this week on Roast the Post, a wealth management firm
1:48
SPEAKER_00: right state of mind.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: So this week on Roast the Post, a wealth management firm
1:52
SPEAKER_00: is hiring a Director of first Impressions.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: If you think based on the
1:57
job title that this is a leadership position,
1:59
then your first impression is
2:02
wrong.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: So proud.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: This job posting has a couple
2:07
of cringe-worthy faux pas,
2:07
including the dreaded work hard,
2:09
play hard trope
2:11
SPEAKER_00: that I thought died in 2019.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: Did we accidentally travel back in time to when
2:16
foosball tables,
2:16
beer kegs,
2:17
and forced socialisation counted as competitive
2:21
SPEAKER_00: benefits packages?
2:22
SPEAKER_00: Is this job ad one of the most subtly problematic ones we've
2:25
SPEAKER_00: ever seen?
2:26
SPEAKER_00: Let's find out when we roast this post.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: How was that?
2:33
SPEAKER_01: That was pretty good.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: I I feel like we're going to have some things to say
2:38
SPEAKER_01: about this one already.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: the the DFI title, Director of First Impressions,
2:42
SPEAKER_01: gives me the ick.
2:43
SPEAKER_01: I don't like it.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: I thought that it died a long, long time
2:46
SPEAKER_01: ago, but here we are.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: So based based then let's talk
2:49
SPEAKER_00: ago, but here we are.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: So based based then let's talk
2:51
SPEAKER_00: about that for a second before we go into the roasty profile.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: Based on that
2:55
SPEAKER_00: title alone and, you know, again Paul knows nothing else about this job
2:59
SPEAKER_00: posting.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: What do you think the role is... like in an alternative title to this
3:03
SPEAKER_00: role?
3:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I should probably
3:09
SPEAKER_01: put active effort in my brain right now, press the buttons to... try and
3:15
SPEAKER_01: balance out my own bias.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: Early in my career, I worked in an organization that
3:19
SPEAKER_01: hired a director of first impressions.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: and it was just a fancy
3:24
SPEAKER_01: way of saying receptionist.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: And when they were hiring that person, they... it
3:32
SPEAKER_01: was an ad agency and they very, very consciously looked for a young, fit,
3:40
SPEAKER_01: attractive woman for the role.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: Stop.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: Stop.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: And then you're ruining it.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: You're ruining it.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: So, my bias if kind of on point.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: I would say Paul, you are on point.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: This
3:54
SPEAKER_00: 100% everything you're saying is correct.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: and so now we know why that
4:00
SPEAKER_00: title gives you the ick.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: So, so... it made me feel grody back then and I
4:04
SPEAKER_01: thought that it was a thing of the past, but here we are.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: So, let's go.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: It's super grody.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: And and a couple of seeds I want to plant in people's
4:15
SPEAKER_00: heads as we go through this is remember this is written by and be in the
4:19
process is being run by a third-party recruitment agency and I
4:22
even found the
4:24
SPEAKER_00: agency how like their headcount everything like they... it's a firm of
4:30
SPEAKER_00: three women and so they're the ones who have written this post.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: So that's
4:36
SPEAKER_00: why to me it's it's also very like mind-blowing.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: But let's get
4:40
SPEAKER_00: into the that's another layer.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: That's another layer.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: It's quite complex.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: So, Roasty Profile.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: The job
4:49
SPEAKER_00: title is director of first impressions.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: The report-to title is unknown.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: The
4:55
SPEAKER_00: company size I initially...
4:56
SPEAKER_00: I had unknown but I am pretty confident saying it's
5:00
about six employees based on some of the research that I've
5:02
done and some of the
5:04
SPEAKER_00: things that it mentions in the job ad.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: The industry is wealth management.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: do they do?
5:09
SPEAKER_00: they're a wealth management firm overseeing
5:12
SPEAKER_00: $300 million in AUM, which is assets under management.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: The head office
5:18
SPEAKER_00: location is Indian Wells, California.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: That is the job location as well.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: The
5:24
geographical operating area is unknown,
5:26
but we can assume United States of
5:29
SPEAKER_00: America.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: The job type is full-time, in office.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: And again, this is posted by a
5:35
SPEAKER_00: recruitment firm.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: Are we ready to roast this post?
5:40
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's do.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: So, sometimes when
5:45
the postings are really long,
5:46
Paul and I will just highlight areas that we want
5:49
to focus on,
5:50
but this one is one of the rare job ads where we're going to
5:53
read
5:53
SPEAKER_00: through the whole thing.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: We're going to take quite a few pauses to dissect
5:58
SPEAKER_00: some some stuff.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: So, bear with us because there's a lot to get to here.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: it starts with about the opportunity.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: Our client is a fast growing wealth
6:08
management firm overseeing approximately $300 million in assets
6:12
under management
6:14
SPEAKER_00: and is looking to add a Director of First Impressions to their team.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: Over
6:19
the past several years,
6:19
the firm has continued to grow steadily,
6:21
leading to
6:23
SPEAKER_00: the need to expand the team and add additional support within the office.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: This position is being created, as the current individual in the role
6:31
SPEAKER_00: transitions into taking on increased responsibilities within the firm's
6:35
marketing and events department after proving herself as a
6:39
valuable member of
6:41
SPEAKER_00: the organization.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: This opportunity is ideal for someone
6:45
looking to build a long-term career within a growing firm
6:48
rather than simply
6:50
SPEAKER_00: finding another administrative position.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: Our client strongly believes in
6:54
SPEAKER_00: promoting from within and creating opportunities for team members to grow
6:59
SPEAKER_00: as the organization continues to expand.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: And I would like to stop there, because
7:04
SPEAKER_00: to me there were several things to flag and I'm not sure if
7:11
SPEAKER_00: they stood out to you or not.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: I think they did for listeners.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what
7:17
SPEAKER_00: what are your thoughts in that first opening?
7:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, some interesting stuff in there.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: So
7:24
this being a staff of let's say 1 to 10 people,
7:29
but there being $300 million
7:31
SPEAKER_01: assets under management, that's not crazy.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: That's not uncommon in this
7:34
SPEAKER_01: space.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: like assets under management doesn't mean profit or revenues or
7:39
SPEAKER_01: anything.
7:39
SPEAKER_01: Like if you're a wealth manager, typically you're
7:43
taking somewhere between three quarters of a percentage point
7:47
and one and a half
7:50
SPEAKER_01: percent on trading transactions.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: So if like you know something goes through
7:55
SPEAKER_01: valued at $10,000, you take a cut of that and that's like your
7:59
SPEAKER_01: management fee.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: So 300 million dollars,
8:03
SPEAKER_01: you know, if they turned over the entire value of their AUM in trades,
8:12
they'd be doing like I don't know somewhere between two and a
8:15
half million
8:17
SPEAKER_01: and maybe four million in revenue.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of how we have to
8:21
SPEAKER_01: look at the business.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: So you know four million in revenue, 10 employees is
8:24
SPEAKER_01: pretty good.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: That's fairly healthy.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: that explains why they are, I think,
8:29
SPEAKER_01: partly investing in expansion, putting more staff in place.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: I found it
8:32
interesting that they mentioned in the job ad that the
8:36
incumbent,
8:37
the person
8:38
SPEAKER_01: who's in the role, has been promoted and they're taking on a role in in
8:42
SPEAKER_01: another department.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: You don't often see that in
8:45
SPEAKER_01: job ads, but 10 person company, you know, maybe they want to communicate
8:49
SPEAKER_01: that there are opportunities.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: At the same time, as a candidate, I kind of
8:54
SPEAKER_01: have some questions.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: this is a 10-person company.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: What opportunities
8:58
SPEAKER_01: actually exist for me, right?
8:59
SPEAKER_01: If I'm coming in as a new DFI into this
9:03
SPEAKER_01: role.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: So, that was kind of interesting.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: My Spidey sense goes off a little bit
9:07
SPEAKER_01: there.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: I wonder how genuine that is.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: And saying that the owners believe in that
9:12
SPEAKER_01: versus like their capability to actually do it.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: Those are two different
9:16
SPEAKER_01: things.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: Off the hopper, that's really all that stood out for me.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: But I
9:21
SPEAKER_01: feel like you have some some comments on that part.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: So I'm interested to hear
9:25
SPEAKER_00: them.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: I do.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it has been
9:30
SPEAKER_00: flagged in our chat as well.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: The thing that stood out to me was that they
9:35
mention the current individual in the role transitions to
9:40
taking exclusive
9:41
responsibility,
9:42
"after proving herself as a valuable member of the
9:45
organization."
9:47
SPEAKER_00: Why would they why would they mention herself?
9:49
SPEAKER_00: like you just need to say after
9:52
SPEAKER_00: demonstrating strong performance.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: That's all you need to say, like, the
9:55
company just casually drops that the incumbent was female and I
9:58
think that we
9:59
need to pay attention...
10:00
you mentioned it right off the bat,
10:01
right,
10:01
like I think we
10:03
SPEAKER_00: need to mention, or pay attention to what we're going to see is a very
10:08
gender-coded job posting,
10:10
very much,
10:11
so whether they realize it or not,
10:15
and
10:15
SPEAKER_00: I because it's a talent firm, I feel like they must realize that they're
10:21
SPEAKER_00: signaling something and they're signaling it hard throughout the job
10:26
SPEAKER_00: posting.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: and I don't like that.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: I think it's completely unnecessary.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: so pay attention to the rest of the job posting as we go through it.
10:38
another thing that they say is this opportunity is ideal for
10:41
someone looking
10:43
to build a long-term career within a growing firm,
10:45
rather than simply finding
10:46
SPEAKER_00: another administrative position.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: Okay but is it not, right?
10:51
SPEAKER_00: And what's
10:52
SPEAKER_00: wrong with administrative positions?
10:54
SPEAKER_00: If administrative work is valuable, then
10:58
SPEAKER_01: why not?
10:58
SPEAKER_01: Why not?
10:58
SPEAKER_01: But in this industry, it's not.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: Administrative work is not valued in this industry.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: This industry
11:03
SPEAKER_01: historically has been very, very male-dominated.
11:07
SPEAKER_01: Capital markets, right?
11:09
SPEAKER_01: Very, very male-dominated.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: Very sexist.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: And the people, and even you
11:14
know you take gender kind of out of the equation and look at
11:17
who's bringing in
11:19
the money in this industry,
11:20
specifically in wealth management for high net
11:24
worth individuals,
11:24
it's people who are going out and doing the sales,
11:27
you know,
11:29
it's your account managers,
11:30
it's your AE'S,
11:30
it's those folks,
11:31
it's the people who are
11:33
generating like the new accounts coming in that you can take a
11:35
piece off the
11:36
top for for your management fees or whatever,
11:39
the people who run the business
11:41
aren't really valued because they don't contribute to those big
11:44
numbers that
11:45
SPEAKER_01: come in.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: Historically.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, I would like to think that the
11:50
industry has changed a little bit in the last 30 years and
11:52
there are more,
11:53
let's call them,
11:54
not a*shole firms out there and they do value the work that
11:59
happens underneath and behind the scenes a little bit more,
12:02
but historically not
12:03
SPEAKER_01: so much.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: So like I get why, you know, they're kind of tacitly devaluing
12:07
SPEAKER_01: administrative work through the way they've structured this job post.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: It's
12:10
SPEAKER_01: just how the industry's been.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: But like, be the change.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: Be the change
12:14
SPEAKER_00: you want to see.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: Like I guess the questions I have are why are we so
12:17
SPEAKER_00: uncomfortable calling administrative work what it is?
12:19
SPEAKER_00: And why does this role
12:21
SPEAKER_00: need a leadership sounding title to be attractive?
12:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: I always wondered that.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: I always wondered that.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: The reason that you
12:31
take a receptionist type role and slap a DFI,
12:35
director of first impressions,
12:36
SPEAKER_01: title on it is because you want it to sound more appealing.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: You want it to
12:40
SPEAKER_01: have more status attached to it so that you get more people applying
12:46
SPEAKER_01: to it.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: Whereas like if you put DFI on your resume, it would do nothing for
12:49
SPEAKER_01: you.
12:50
SPEAKER_01: Like it it wouldn't be taken as a director level role when you went to
12:54
SPEAKER_01: apply for a job somewhere else.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: It would be like, okay, fancy word for
12:57
SPEAKER_01: receptionist.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, and this is where we get into title inflation.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm all for
13:01
people getting a title like that will help them advance in
13:04
their careers,
13:05
but
13:05
SPEAKER_00: there are also a lot of cons to that for the candidate themselves.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: So, and
13:10
SPEAKER_00: we'll get into that, but this is just like... this is the first paragraph
13:15
SPEAKER_01: of...
13:16
SPEAKER_01: I don't like title inflation, because
13:19
SPEAKER_01: it hurts the people who get that inflated title, more than it helps.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: Now,
13:23
if the inflated title comes along with support and training and
13:26
mentorship to
13:27
SPEAKER_01: kind of like guide you in that direction, awesome.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: But if you...
13:32
SPEAKER_01: if you give this person a director level title and then they go into the
13:35
job market expecting to be able to compete for director level
13:38
jobs and not
13:39
SPEAKER_01: knowing that they can't, it's not good.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: You know, they did that
13:43
SPEAKER_01: person a disservice by giving them that inflated title.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: I will say though, I do appreciate that they give a bit of an
13:51
origin story as to the role and like this is why we're hiring,
13:55
this is what
13:56
SPEAKER_00: happens.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
13:57
SPEAKER_00: We ask for that a lot.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: Is this an existing
14:00
SPEAKER_00: role?
14:00
SPEAKER_00: Is this net new?
14:01
SPEAKER_00: Why now?
14:02
SPEAKER_00: Why do you need this role?
14:03
SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate
14:04
SPEAKER_00: that.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: I think it's just done badly.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: I was trying to think of a polite way to
14:09
SPEAKER_00: say it's just too badly done.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: highlighting that pathway that this
14:14
SPEAKER_01: person has gone from... incumbent has gone from being a DFI into
14:19
SPEAKER_01: a position in like their marketing and events department.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: That's
14:23
SPEAKER_01: actually good.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: A lot of people who start their careers in kind of those
14:31
types of roles,
14:31
they're looking to get into marketing,
14:34
events,
14:34
communications.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: at least, you know, here in Ontario.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: That's a really, really common
14:40
pathway for people who are starting their career and kind of
14:42
wanting to get
14:43
SPEAKER_01: into that space.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: Let me tell you something then, because
14:48
SPEAKER_00: remember at the top, I said I did all this detective and sleuthing work
14:52
and so I figured out the company that is hiring for this role
14:56
and then I found
14:58
SPEAKER_00: the incumbent and it says that she's moved into marketing.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: Guess what her
15:04
SPEAKER_00: title is?
15:05
SPEAKER_00: Coordinator of some kind... events coordinator?
15:06
SPEAKER_01: title is?
15:07
SPEAKER_01: Coordinator of some kind... events coordinator?
15:09
SPEAKER_01: like events coordinator.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: Director of Marketing?
15:11
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: This is what we're talking about with the inflation.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: This is like a six-person
15:18
SPEAKER_00: company.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: And so she has moved from director of first impressions to
15:22
SPEAKER_00: director of marketing.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: Why can't... Like it's very interesting.
15:27
SPEAKER_00: It's
15:27
SPEAKER_00: that whole title inflation thing.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: It makes me think they don't pay very
15:31
SPEAKER_00: well, but we'll give you a really good title.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: That's what happened to me in my
15:35
SPEAKER_00: career once upon a time.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: And I was like sold on that.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, "Oh, cool.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
15:38
Well,
15:38
you can't afford to give me much money,
15:40
but I get this big fancy title
15:42
SPEAKER_00: that I've never had before."
15:46
SPEAKER_00: And it, ended up being pretty meaningless...
15:48
SPEAKER_01: and then later you realize that it doesn't do anything for you.
15:51
SPEAKER_01: So, like,
15:52
SPEAKER_00: if anything, it makes it harder to find a job.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: Like the higher up you get, the
15:56
SPEAKER_00: harder it is because those vacancies aren't you don't see them come up as
15:58
SPEAKER_00: often.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: And so, so yeah, you're really shooting yourself in the foot there.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: but let's let's move on.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: We're going to talk about why this opportunity stands
16:06
SPEAKER_00: out.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: this role offers direct exposure to client service, advisor
16:11
support,
16:11
operations,
16:12
seminar,
16:13
events,
16:14
and marketing initiatives,
16:15
creating a
16:15
strong foundation for future advancement opportunities within
16:18
the organization.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: The individual currently in this position has "earned the opportunity"
16:24
earned the opportunity to transition into a larger role focused
16:27
on marketing
16:28
and events within the firm,
16:29
highlighting the company's commitment to internal
16:32
SPEAKER_00: growth and development.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: This is an opportunity to join a firm where strong
16:36
performance,
16:36
initiative,
16:36
and a positive attitude are recognized and rewarded.
16:40
The organization is looking for someone who wants to build a
16:43
career alongside a
16:45
growing team and become an important part of the firm's
16:47
long-term success.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to go straight into what we're looking for.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: That's the next section.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: And then we can recap what we're looking for.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: The responsibilities listed below
16:58
SPEAKER_00: are not exhaustive.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: Given the fast- moving nature of this work, the
17:01
SPEAKER_00: responsibilities set out below may change and additional duties may be
17:05
SPEAKER_00: assigned as needed.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: The ideal candidate is organized, outgoing, detail-
17:09
SPEAKER_00: oriented, and thrives in a fast-paced office environment.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: They are looking...
17:14
SPEAKER_00: they mean the client... they are looking for someone with a bubbly and
17:19
professional personality who naturally enjoys working with
17:22
people and creating
17:24
SPEAKER_00: positive client experience.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: The right individual will be highly organized and
17:29
SPEAKER_00: dependable, take ownership of responsibilities and projects,
17:33
SPEAKER_00: communicate professionally and confidently, thrive in a collaborative
17:37
SPEAKER_00: team environment, be proactive and self-motivated, and handle multiple
17:41
SPEAKER_00: priorities without needing micro- management.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: And, scene.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: So, let's stop
17:47
SPEAKER_00: there and talk about that a little bit.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: Anything stood out for you here?
17:52
SPEAKER_00: And
17:53
again,
17:53
we covered why this opportunity stands out,
17:55
what we're looking for.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: there are a lot of things that on their surface sound good.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: But my
18:06
SPEAKER_01: bullsh*t detector is highly engaged with
18:13
SPEAKER_01: this.
18:13
SPEAKER_01: The whole... the part where they say the person
18:18
SPEAKER_01: who was in this role has earned a promotion.
18:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean that sounds nice.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: It makes it sound like okay, we're a meritocracy and we reward effort
18:32
SPEAKER_01: and we reward capability and competence and whatever, and we will create
18:37
SPEAKER_01: roles for people who...
18:38
SPEAKER_01: I would suspect... kind of kill themselves
18:46
SPEAKER_01: a little bit in a job to prove themself, like, they use that word
18:51
"prove" herself or something,
18:55
which is kind of weird to me,
18:56
the gendering,
18:58
SPEAKER_01: of it I don't like that.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: You know, it makes it sound like
19:04
like this is an environment where you can succeed based on your
19:07
own ambitions,
19:08
but in reality,
19:08
what's happening is they are...
19:11
they're avoiding going to the market
19:15
SPEAKER_01: for someone who has external experience and competence in this area
19:20
SPEAKER_01: and hiring them in.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to pigeonhole this person who was in this
19:25
role and moved into the new role,
19:26
but I would be,
19:27
I'd have some questions about
19:29
the effectiveness of someone who was like a receptionist if
19:33
they were,
19:33
you
19:34
know,
19:34
quite young,
19:35
just out of college or university or whatever,
19:37
going from
19:38
SPEAKER_01: that into marketing a financial services company.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: And she's probably the only
19:44
SPEAKER_01: person who is in marketing at that organization.
19:47
SPEAKER_01: Unless there's like an
19:48
SPEAKER_01: intern or something hanging around.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how well that's going to
19:51
SPEAKER_01: work.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: So, it sounds like a good story, but I don't think it's I don't think
19:55
SPEAKER_01: it's the best move that they could have made if they're trying to build a
19:59
SPEAKER_01: business and actually grow it.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, that troubles me a little bit.
20:06
They also said what they want is someone who is "bubbly and
20:09
professional."
20:11
SPEAKER_01: Those two things, like, aren't they kind of, you know, at odds?
20:14
SPEAKER_01: Aren't they
20:15
SPEAKER_01: different things?
20:15
SPEAKER_01: Like bubbly, friendly, whatever.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's kind of a nice
20:19
characteristic to have,
20:20
but then like professional and able to handle clients
20:25
SPEAKER_01: and whatnot.
20:27
SPEAKER_01: Those two words together, and perhaps this is my own
20:30
bias based on my experiences,
20:31
but those two words together just kind of suggest
20:34
to me that they are looking for someone who is young and
20:36
attractive to come
20:38
SPEAKER_01: into this role.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: And I really don't like that.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: That devalues your
20:46
SPEAKER_01: capacity to contribute based on your skills and abilities.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: Which I
20:48
SPEAKER_01: really don't like.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this...
20:53
SPEAKER_01: I don't like this so far.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: They are
20:57
SPEAKER_01: talking about growing their team.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: They are talking
21:01
SPEAKER_01: about hiring to scale up.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: Okay, fine.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: you know, telling that story a
21:07
SPEAKER_01: little bit, sure.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: But I don't see any evidence so far that they're doing that
21:13
SPEAKER_01: in a way that makes a whole lot of sense.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: But, you know, again, we're kind
21:17
of filling in some blanks and making assumptions and guesses at
21:19
this stage
21:20
SPEAKER_01: with this organization.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: So, maybe I'm just being a hater.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: That's what we do on this show.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: That's the whole premise of the show.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: I
21:29
SPEAKER_00: will say that I've never... and this is just...
21:33
SPEAKER_00: I'm speaking for
21:34
SPEAKER_00: myself.
21:35
SPEAKER_00: I have never heard a man being described as bubbly.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: Never.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: Again, we go into, and this is the thing.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: There is gender-coded language.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: So
21:45
SPEAKER_00: again, we go into that.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: I don't think the company is actually looking
21:48
SPEAKER_00: for someone "bubbly".
21:49
SPEAKER_00: I think they're looking for someone who can make clients
21:52
SPEAKER_00: feel welcome.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: The problem is those are not the same thing, like you
21:56
SPEAKER_00: mentioned, you mentioned that.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: One is a business outcome.
21:59
SPEAKER_00: The
21:59
SPEAKER_00: other is a personality preference.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: So, if the requirement is that
22:04
SPEAKER_00: someone creates a positive first impression, then just say that.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: or say hospitable.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: You know, we want someone who has the capacity to
22:14
SPEAKER_01: be hospitable and create a welcoming environment for our clients and
22:18
SPEAKER_01: prospects when they come in.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: That would be completely valid and that
22:22
SPEAKER_01: wouldn't be, you know, gender- coded or biased in in any way.
22:24
SPEAKER_01: And ultimately,
22:25
SPEAKER_00: if that's what you want, then say that and like once you start describing
22:30
SPEAKER_00: personalities instead of people's capabilities,
22:33
SPEAKER_00: like what is what is it that you're looking for then?
22:36
SPEAKER_00: because that's going
22:37
to make they say that they promote people internally and and
22:39
like you said
22:40
like you're going to get rewarded for your performance,
22:42
but you're listing
22:44
SPEAKER_00: personality traits.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:47
And so how then are you measuring that when you're talking
22:49
about personality
22:50
SPEAKER_00: traits versus competencies and capabilities?
22:54
SPEAKER_00: I get that this is a lower barrier to entry job.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: I get it.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: But at the same
22:58
time,
22:59
it seems very...
23:01
this doesn't seem like a smart way to approach hiring
23:04
SPEAKER_00: this role.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: Like what's more important to you?
23:06
SPEAKER_00: A bubbly personality?
23:08
SPEAKER_00: Or, you know,
23:10
SPEAKER_00: somebody who has demonstrated experience doing X, Y, and Z.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: So very
23:16
SPEAKER_01: interesting.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean this...
23:19
fundamental business need that they're kind of trying to
23:22
communicate there is
23:25
that they need someone who has the capacity to,
23:28
again,
23:28
create that welcoming
23:30
SPEAKER_01: environment for prospects who come in.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: Because you absolutely don't want
23:35
someone,
23:35
you know,
23:35
kind of running your your lobby,
23:37
sitting behind the front
23:38
desk being an assistant or whatever who when somebody with a
23:41
lot of money walks
23:43
SPEAKER_01: through the door for an appointment, they kind of get growled at and you
23:49
SPEAKER_01: know... or give the Gen Z stare... why are you bothering me?
23:52
SPEAKER_01: I don't
23:53
SPEAKER_01: need to get your coffee.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: There's a Starbucks down the road.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: Of course, you don't want
23:56
SPEAKER_00: that.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: You really don't want that.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: Like if someone's going to potentially like
24:00
SPEAKER_01: drop $100 million in your lap to invest, like yeah, roll out the red
24:05
SPEAKER_01: carpet.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: But the way that they're going about communicating that is quite
24:09
SPEAKER_01: frankly like old-fashioned and sexist.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it ain't good.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's go
24:15
SPEAKER_00: into what you'll do.
24:17
SPEAKER_00: That's the next section.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: We're going to cover a couple
24:20
SPEAKER_00: of things here.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: We'll do what you'll do and maybe what success looks like.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: what
24:25
SPEAKER_00: you'll do.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: Answer incoming calls using a live answer approach.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: Manage multiple
24:30
SPEAKER_00: advisor calendars and coordinate client review meetings.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: Handle high volume
24:34
SPEAKER_00: calls and emails throughout the day.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: Welcome and assist clients visiting the
24:39
SPEAKER_00: office.
24:39
SPEAKER_00: Triage client communication to advisors, operations, and service team
24:44
SPEAKER_00: members.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: Complete administrative and database projects during downtime.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: Support seminar events and client workshops.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: Assist with outreach,
24:53
SPEAKER_00: calling, and event preparation.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: Reset and organize conference rooms following
24:59
SPEAKER_00: meetings.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: Serve as the first point of contact for all client interactions.
25:04
Maybe we can go into what success looks like because it's
25:07
pretty short and then
25:09
SPEAKER_00: we'll stop there.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: Successful individuals in this role are
25:13
SPEAKER_00: highly responsive and organized, comfortable multitasking in a fast-paced
25:17
environment,
25:18
dependable and able to work independently,
25:20
positive and energetic in
25:23
SPEAKER_00: client interactions, team-oriented and willing to help wherever needed.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: Able to
25:28
SPEAKER_00: create a welcoming and professional office atmosphere.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: Let's stop there.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: See, that's valid.
25:35
SPEAKER_01: You know, saying
25:37
SPEAKER_01: create a welcoming and professional office atmosphere.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is valid.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: That's a great way to describe what you're looking for in
25:45
SPEAKER_01: that particular client service space.
25:47
SPEAKER_01: It's better than "bubbly and
25:49
SPEAKER_01: professional."
25:50
SPEAKER_01: My god.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: I kind of got stuck on the bullet point that said
25:57
SPEAKER_01: take calls on what was the first bullet point?
26:00
SPEAKER_01: Take calls in a live
26:02
SPEAKER_00: something... using a live answer approach.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: Does that
26:05
SPEAKER_01: just mean... so do they mean answer the
26:06
SPEAKER_00: f*cking phone?
26:09
SPEAKER_00: The f*cking phone.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: What?
26:11
SPEAKER_00: That's what I thought too.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: then I was like, is this a system that I'm not aware of that exists?
26:17
SPEAKER_00: It says
26:20
SPEAKER_00: answer incoming calls using a live answer approach.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: And maybe we're wrong.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: Maybe some listeners and watchers are like, "Oh, no.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: This is like a thing."
26:28
SPEAKER_00: But like I read that as you mean answer the phone.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: if you know if this person...
26:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to set aside
26:43
SPEAKER_01: my feelings about this right now.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: If this is...
26:49
if this role if they really,
26:51
truly do want to create...
26:53
and I think they do
26:54
SPEAKER_01: they're just communicating it very poorly.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: If they really, truly do want to
26:58
create a a welcoming environment for people who come in that's
27:02
also about the
27:03
SPEAKER_01: phone, right?
27:04
SPEAKER_01: And that becomes even more important if if your DFI or your
27:08
SPEAKER_01: front desk person is connected to the sales process.
27:12
SPEAKER_01: And I would hope that
27:13
SPEAKER_01: they have at least some sort of system where there's
27:19
SPEAKER_01: some training.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: there's some operational like point of contact or
27:23
SPEAKER_01: connection or whatever where the person who's answering the phone in that
27:27
SPEAKER_01: "live answer" setting is maybe doing some qualification of
27:33
SPEAKER_01: like inbound leads on the phone or something.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: So I get why that is
27:40
SPEAKER_01: kind of important in that backdrop, but I'm still stuck on the whole
27:48
SPEAKER_01: live answer thing.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: It's like you're saying you need to be able to answer the
27:51
SPEAKER_01: phone.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: Cool.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: Bizarre.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: Like I appreciate that they're actually listing... like they're
27:57
naming the actual work that you'll be doing because sometimes
27:59
that doesn't
28:00
SPEAKER_00: happen.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: Like we've gone through so many job ads and we're like, "Okay, but what
28:04
SPEAKER_00: are the what are the day?"
28:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: And some some job ads will say
28:09
SPEAKER_00: day-to-day activities and then they actually don't list the day-to-day
28:13
SPEAKER_00: activities either.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: And so, I'll give them points, I guess, for that
28:18
SPEAKER_00: But they, again, they're talking about positive and energetic and
28:25
things like that where to me they're describing personality
28:28
traits instead
28:30
SPEAKER_00: of like actual competencies.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: So and the reason why I'm so stuck on this is
28:33
SPEAKER_00: because the heading says what success looks like.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: So success looks like your
28:38
SPEAKER_00: personality?
28:39
SPEAKER_00: Again, how are you measuring performance
28:41
then when you say it's a culture where you're like promoting
28:44
people from within
28:45
SPEAKER_00: based on like "extra bubbly", right?
28:48
SPEAKER_00: Like, do they have a rubric
28:51
SPEAKER_00: that's like measure... that's going to be on your performance review
28:56
SPEAKER_01: every year... effervescence?
28:58
... leves of bubbliness.
29:00
Well,
29:00
this is why I messaged you ahead of time and said I was excited
29:03
for this
29:04
SPEAKER_00: one because it is, again, remember that this was... this is written
29:12
SPEAKER_00: by a recruitment firm.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: So, let's go into qualifications.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: prior office or administrative experience required.
29:24
SPEAKER_00: Medical or legal
29:25
SPEAKER_00: office experience preferred.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: Strong calendar management and scheduling
29:29
SPEAKER_00: experience.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: Excellent communication and client service skills.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: Ability to
29:33
SPEAKER_00: multitask and prioritize effectively.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: Strong organizational and project
29:38
SPEAKER_00: management abilities.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: Comfortable learning and using CRM technology
29:42
SPEAKER_00: (Red Tail).
29:43
SPEAKER_00: This position is ideal for someone who
29:48
SPEAKER_00: I just need to take a moment before I read this next line.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm
29:52
SPEAKER_00: building it up.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: It's worth it.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: This position is ideal for someone who enjoys
29:57
SPEAKER_00: working in a younger, energetic office environment,
30:02
wants long-term career growth within an expanding organization,
30:07
enjoys balancing
30:08
SPEAKER_00: client interaction with administrative responsibilities,
30:12
SPEAKER_00: takes initiatives and works well independently.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: Wants to be part of a
30:16
SPEAKER_00: a high-energy, team- oriented culture.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: We got an "oh my god" in the comments.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts?
30:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's what's going on in my brain.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: okay.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: So now alongside like
30:32
SPEAKER_01: gender-coding, we have age-coding.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: That's basically saying, like don't
30:37
SPEAKER_01: bother applying if you're, you know, over 35.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: No oldies.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: No oldies.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: Like Jen, we
30:43
SPEAKER_01: can't apply.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: Oooohh darn.
30:49
SPEAKER_01: Some interesting things that stood out for me in there.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: So they say prior
30:54
SPEAKER_01: experience required.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, fair.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: Medical or legal, but they didn't say
30:59
SPEAKER_01: finance.
30:59
SPEAKER_01: That was interesting.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: and
31:01
SPEAKER_01: structurally they are similar.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: They are similar, like, working in
31:06
SPEAKER_01: a medical practice as someone who's who's managing the front desk or a
31:12
SPEAKER_01: legal practice.
31:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there are a lot of similarities.
31:14
SPEAKER_01: But why wouldn't you
31:16
SPEAKER_01: look for someone who has experience doing that in your industry?
31:21
SPEAKER_01: Those
31:21
SPEAKER_01: people do exist.
31:22
SPEAKER_01: It's not a unicorn, particularly, and these kind of
31:28
SPEAKER_01: things lock together for me a little bit... why aren't you looking
31:31
for someone with finance industry experience when you are also
31:37
saying that
31:39
you should have project management experience and to kind of
31:43
tie back to my
31:44
earlier comment on the sales process,
31:46
the sales funnel,
31:47
you have experience using
31:50
SPEAKER_01: Red Tail CRM.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: That right there does signal to me that the person
31:55
SPEAKER_01: who's behind the front desk is expected to be a part of the sales funnel.
31:58
SPEAKER_01: So, if
31:58
you want them to be a part of the sales funnel,
32:00
why aren't you looking for
32:02
SPEAKER_01: someone who has done that before in your industry?
32:04
SPEAKER_01: That doesn't make a lot
32:05
SPEAKER_01: of sense to me.
32:06
SPEAKER_01: That's a weird disconnect,
32:08
SPEAKER_01: which...
32:09
SPEAKER_01: I am going to throw something out right now...
32:10
it makes me think that they are going to underpay,
32:14
or the offer is going to be
32:16
SPEAKER_01: very, very, very poor.
32:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to do a poker face for you
32:21
SPEAKER_00: right now.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: I also think like so, so I'm trying to think again what you
32:28
SPEAKER_00: mentioned, why medical, legal, why not financial.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: I'm wondering if there's a
32:31
certain kind of like volume or something that they're
32:34
interested in somebody
32:36
SPEAKER_00: having experience in.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: They also don't mention any kind of like events
32:42
SPEAKER_00: management, I guess.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: No, they don't.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: They really don't have
32:47
SPEAKER_00: events management experience.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: It's the new marketing director's job.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: Don't worry about events.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: She's a marketing director.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they can do
32:55
SPEAKER_00: that.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: so I guess my thoughts are really like
32:58
as an organization,
32:59
you should generally be describing the work environment,
33:02
SPEAKER_00: not the demographic characteristics of the people in it.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: I have actually
33:08
SPEAKER_00: never seen this before.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: And again, I'm going to keep hammering this.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: Written by
33:14
SPEAKER_00: a third party recruitment company, unless it's written, it was written by
33:18
the firm itself and then they handed it to the recruitment
33:23
company for like a
33:24
SPEAKER_00: final overview and then they posted it without reviewing it.
33:29
SPEAKER_00: But like I
33:31
SPEAKER_00: actually am concerned that there are some legal like discriminatory risks
33:36
SPEAKER_00: happening here.
33:37
SPEAKER_01: In California, you have to worry about that a lot more than
33:42
SPEAKER_01: other states.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: California is by far Oh, New York.
33:43
SPEAKER_01: New New York, too.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: New York
33:44
SPEAKER_01: and California are by far the they have the strictest regimes for this
33:49
SPEAKER_01: stuff.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: So, I would kind of echo your concerns.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: This is it.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: And say someone who happens to be, I don't know, 61 years
33:58
SPEAKER_00: old, applies for this job and has the qualifications and has the "bubbly
34:03
SPEAKER_00: personality" like doesn't get it.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: They could say, "Well, here's the reason why
34:07
SPEAKER_00: I didn't get this job because it's clearly targeting young people."
34:11
SPEAKER_00: So,
34:12
SPEAKER_00: yeah.
34:13
SPEAKER_00: Are there discriminatory risks?
34:15
SPEAKER_00: Is it flat out illegal?
34:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:18
SPEAKER_01: So, and in an environment in the US
34:21
SPEAKER_01: that is very... very friendly towards suing for... as a
34:29
SPEAKER_01: solution to all of life's problems.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: That's much more of a concern than
34:33
SPEAKER_01: it would be in other countries.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: So to me, like, if you want
34:37
SPEAKER_00: to, like, guidance I guess for the job poster, which I don't want to give
34:42
them any guidance,
34:43
but I think just a word of caution for anyone with job ads
34:48
like writing these job ads if you want to describe if you
34:51
wanted to get around
34:52
this and say you wanted to hire someone who was younger but you
34:55
didn't want to
34:56
flat out go and say it well you could just use language like
34:59
collaborative,
35:00
SPEAKER_00: well, older people can be collaborative, but there's a way to
35:04
SPEAKER_00: use the language to tell someone what it's like to work there, right?
35:10
SPEAKER_00: So, what is the purpose of including this?
35:13
SPEAKER_00: This is what I just can't
35:15
SPEAKER_00: understand.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, what is their what are they trying to do?
35:19
SPEAKER_00: It's quite nefarious
35:20
SPEAKER_00: if you ask me.
35:21
SPEAKER_00: I don't think that this is just like a slip-up.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: I think
35:26
SPEAKER_00: adding the gender of the incumbent is on purpose.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: I think things like "bubbly
35:30
SPEAKER_00: personality" is on purpose.
35:31
SPEAKER_00: I think saying "younger office" is on purpose and
35:35
SPEAKER_00: it's like straight up grotesque, in my opinion.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: Oh, this this job ad does a fantastic job of telling candidates what it's
35:45
SPEAKER_01: going to be like to work there.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it does.
35:49
SPEAKER_00: This is the whole point of
35:52
SPEAKER_00: the story behind the bullet points.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: It's absolutely that.
35:56
Like it's what's interesting is that...
35:58
it's actually,
35:58
to me,
35:59
it's describing two
36:00
SPEAKER_00: jobs.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: This job posting, one is administrative.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: So you're managing
36:04
calendars,
36:05
answering the phone,
36:07
the other is is an emotional labour type job.
36:09
SPEAKER_00: So making people feel welcome, creating a positive atmosphere.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: But only one of
36:15
SPEAKER_00: those jobs is like explicitly acknowledged within the job posting.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: That's what I find really interesting.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: There are two parallel job postings
36:25
SPEAKER_00: happening... job descriptions... happening in one job posting.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: But
36:29
SPEAKER_00: we're also not done yet.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: So, let's go to schedule and work
36:34
SPEAKER_00: environment.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: Full-time in office position located in
36:38
SPEAKER_00: Indian Wells, California.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: Approximately four evening seminar events per month.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: Team of six employees.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: Six employees in a collaborative office environment.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: Fast-paced office with consistent client interaction throughout the day.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: "Work
36:54
SPEAKER_00: hard, play hard" culture with team lunches, happy hours, outings, and
36:58
SPEAKER_00: company trips.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: Going to stop there.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's going to go well.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts on schedule and
37:08
SPEAKER_00: work environment?
37:10
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, for this job,
37:14
SPEAKER_01: someone who's the receptionist who's managing the front office...
37:19
SPEAKER_01: it's got to be in-office like this.
37:20
SPEAKER_01: This is not a remote job for sure.
37:21
SPEAKER_01: So
37:23
SPEAKER_01: no qualms on that one.
37:25
SPEAKER_01: Four seminars per month in the evening, it's
37:27
SPEAKER_01: going to be business development activities.
37:29
SPEAKER_01: if these folks are wealth
37:30
SPEAKER_01: managers and they're on the lookout for high net-worth individuals
37:37
SPEAKER_01: to invest... or, you know, to transfer the assets
37:41
SPEAKER_01: over so that they can manage them or whatever.
37:44
SPEAKER_01: That's going to be
37:44
SPEAKER_01: one of your big business development activities, holding those seminars.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: Like
37:49
SPEAKER_01: that's... ... sure...
37:50
SPEAKER_01: that's a BD tactic that's been in this industry and other industries
37:54
SPEAKER_01: since time began.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: It's a common thing.
37:57
SPEAKER_01: Having the DFI at those
38:00
SPEAKER_01: does signal something though.
38:02
SPEAKER_01: It signals that you want the people with the
38:05
money to see the pretty person you've hired to work behind your
38:08
front desk
38:08
SPEAKER_01: because you want to give all of them a good first impression.
38:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't like
38:14
that,
38:14
but I think I'm on the record at this point of not really
38:18
digging this
38:18
SPEAKER_01: whole thing to start with.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: Work hard, play hard.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, that's
38:23
SPEAKER_01: language coding that's pretty common in the finance industry.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: It's problematic.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: It's basically saying that an under-the-
38:31
table cultural expectation of being a part of this organization
38:34
is that you go
38:34
SPEAKER_01: out drinking with your co-workers and with
38:38
SPEAKER_01: clients.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: And that also kind of ties into this DFI thing that I really don't like.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: Structurally, this cultural expectation is someday going
38:52
SPEAKER_01: to get this firm in hot water because something untoward is
38:57
SPEAKER_01: going to happen with someone and it'll be a problem.
39:00
SPEAKER_01: We can...
39:01
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure that
39:02
you can see that too from a mile away,
39:03
like,
39:04
this will happen one day and it's
39:06
because they created the expectation structurally at the very
39:09
start with this
39:10
SPEAKER_01: job ad and what they're writing in it.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're going
39:14
SPEAKER_01: to get in the hot water someday.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it'll be this person, maybe it'll be the
39:17
SPEAKER_01: next person that fills this role.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
39:19
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
39:20
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: Like this is just a harassment claim waiting to
39:26
SPEAKER_00: happen.
39:27
SPEAKER_00: I want to also highlight though, when they say approximately
39:29
four evening seminar events per month that is...
39:33
four evenings per month is once
39:35
SPEAKER_00: a week.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: Right.
39:40
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
39:40
SPEAKER_01: Or two 2x a week.
39:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:42
SPEAKER_00: That is a material a material scheduling
39:46
SPEAKER_00: consideration for people.
39:47
SPEAKER_00: Not to mention like the happy hours, the outings, the
39:51
SPEAKER_00: company trips.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: So basically, work hard, play hard is like long hours,
39:57
SPEAKER_00: intense environment, high performance expectations, but don't
40:00
SPEAKER_00: worry, it's offset with all of these activities, which by the way also
40:04
SPEAKER_00: require you to spend even more time at work, right?
40:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: Probably should have been described as
40:11
SPEAKER_01: play while you work.
40:12
SPEAKER_01: That's really more what it is.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: And like... company trips?
40:16
SPEAKER_00: Work, well, like, with whom?
40:19
SPEAKER_00: Don Draper?
40:21
SPEAKER_00: What in the Mad Men is happening here?
40:24
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, from like my
40:26
SPEAKER_00: human resources lens, like this shouldn't have even gotten out the door.
40:31
SPEAKER_00: Like this sounds like someone's fantasy, not a job posting.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: And so this is where
40:37
I go back to the recruitment firm who's working with this
40:40
company and to give
40:42
SPEAKER_00: them a big, like, what the f*ck is happening here?
40:46
SPEAKER_00: It's not good.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: then the rest goes into why join our company.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: Our client continues
40:53
SPEAKER_00: to grow rapidly yada yada yada.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: I don't think it really
40:58
SPEAKER_00: matters.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: Looking for someone who wants more than just a job.
41:02
SPEAKER_00: They want
41:03
SPEAKER_00: someone excited about building a long-term career within the
41:06
SPEAKER_00: organization.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: And then it says how to apply.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: To learn more or apply, please
41:12
SPEAKER_00: submit your resume for consideration.
41:15
SPEAKER_00: And that's it.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: So, we've got no accessibility statement.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: We've got no inclusion
41:21
SPEAKER_01: statement, none of that?
41:22
SPEAKER_01: Which is... well, maybe California has some
41:25
SPEAKER_01: carve-outs for size of firm like we do in Ontario.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: But there, if I recall in
41:31
California law,
41:32
you'd need to have an accessibility and inclusion statement on
41:36
SPEAKER_01: your job ads.
41:37
SPEAKER_01: There's also stuff with the AODA, I
41:41
SPEAKER_01: think, that applies that they haven't done.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: and there's no salary range
41:46
SPEAKER_00: listed there.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: There's no salary listed.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: So, in
41:49
SPEAKER_00: California, they do have salary pay transparency acts.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: however, I think
41:56
SPEAKER_00: it's triggered at 15 employees.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: And so, they list six, but they also just list
42:00
SPEAKER_00: six in-office, like, in-office team members.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: So, who knows if there are
42:04
SPEAKER_00: more working remotely.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: Regardless, you're not going to you're legally
42:09
required at 15.
42:10
you have six employees and you're not just going to it's not
42:13
SPEAKER_00: it's a difference of nine.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: You're not just going to post the salary.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: Just post
42:15
SPEAKER_00: the salary.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: Like again, why are companies waiting to be forced to do so
42:21
SPEAKER_00: instead of just posting the salary?
42:24
SPEAKER_01: Well, with this one, my Spidey
42:29
SPEAKER_01: sense tells me that it's so that they can squeeze salary down and low-
42:31
SPEAKER_01: ball.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: Because for... and let's talk about the factors that kind of feed
42:36
SPEAKER_01: into salary for this job.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: It's a low barrier to entry, like you said.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: the number of people who will match their requirements for
42:49
SPEAKER_01: preferred experience.
42:50
SPEAKER_01: It's a big pool.
42:51
SPEAKER_01: So on the labour market side, you
42:53
don't have supply and demand constraints that are going to be
42:56
pushing the salary
42:58
SPEAKER_01: up.
42:58
SPEAKER_01: Tons of people to choose from.
43:00
SPEAKER_01: They're looking for somebody young and
43:03
they're looking for somebody...
43:04
even though they haven't said it out loud,
43:08
SPEAKER_01: they're looking for somebody female, through the language that they've
43:12
SPEAKER_01: used like, yeah, that's what they're looking for.
43:15
young,
43:15
female,
43:16
low barrier to entry,
43:17
and not a whole lot of specialist experience
43:21
SPEAKER_01: needed.
43:21
SPEAKER_01: That means the salary is going to start low, in the grand scheme of
43:25
SPEAKER_01: things to start with.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: And by not posting the salary, they're going to be able to
43:28
SPEAKER_01: negotiate and play candidates off one another.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: And when they ask for, I'm sure
43:33
SPEAKER_01: that through their application process, they have something that whether
43:37
it's,
43:37
you know,
43:37
in like the application portal or whether it's in the screening
43:39
SPEAKER_01: call, "what's your expected salary?"
43:41
SPEAKER_01: How much money do you want to make?
43:42
SPEAKER_01: So, it's
43:43
SPEAKER_01: going to get into this game of like candidates are going to feel really
43:46
SPEAKER_01: pressured to low ball themselves to get an
43:49
interview and then they'll be able to further take that and
43:53
say,
43:53
"Well,
43:53
you
43:54
SPEAKER_01: know what?
43:54
SPEAKER_01: Somebody else wants 15% less than you.
43:57
SPEAKER_01: Will you take 15% less...
43:58
SPEAKER_01: they'll be able to do stuff like that?"
43:59
SPEAKER_01: Which is just exploitive.
44:01
I don't like it.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: I think they're also looking for one more thing, and that's
44:07
SPEAKER_00: someone who and and maybe it's a little bit more subtle than the other
44:11
SPEAKER_00: like huge, glaring, obvious things, but it feels like they're looking for
44:15
SPEAKER_00: someone who doesn't yet or does not have a family because of that whole
44:22
SPEAKER_00: work hard, play hard, happy hour, work trips, like four evenings a
44:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think there are a lot of things that kind of signal to
44:33
SPEAKER_00: family status as well, which is another discriminatory practice.
44:37
SPEAKER_01: Someone with family obligations is going to have a really, really hard
44:42
SPEAKER_01: time.
44:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: With this job.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: Somebody with a frigging dog is going to have a really
44:47
SPEAKER_01: hard time with this job.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: Like, who's going to walk Fefe and Fufu?
44:51
SPEAKER_01: Oh, we know
44:51
SPEAKER_01: somebody in Collingwood who might.
44:54
SPEAKER_01: Little throwback joke to a job ad that
44:56
SPEAKER_01: we roasted probably two months ago at this point for a dog walker.
45:00
SPEAKER_01: yeah, if you if you have pets that require some care, this is probably
45:03
SPEAKER_01: going to be a struggle for you, too.
45:05
SPEAKER_01: Like the the evenings, weekends, work
45:07
trips thing,
45:08
definitely a certain kind of person who's going to be able to
45:11
do
45:11
SPEAKER_01: that.
45:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
45:14
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know,
45:17
we can't guess the salary,
45:18
but the next thing we're going to do is rate the
45:21
SPEAKER_00: job ad.
45:22
SPEAKER_00: And so, we give two ratings.
45:23
SPEAKER_00: One both out of 10.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: One is on the job ad
45:26
itself,
45:27
how it's written,
45:27
the format,
45:29
whether or not it flows and makes sense.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: And then the other rating is for the job design.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: So like is this a good job?
45:36
SPEAKER_00: Is it sustainable?
45:37
SPEAKER_00: Is it... does the reporting structure make
45:42
SPEAKER_00: sense?
45:43
SPEAKER_00: And all of those other things.
45:44
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm going to finally share the
45:47
SPEAKER_00: full job posting to Paul.
45:48
SPEAKER_00: Although like I said, I read the entire thing.
45:52
SPEAKER_00: I'll give it a skim.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: I'll give it skim through.
45:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, do another skim.
45:59
SPEAKER_00: And then, yeah, we'll have a little intermission.
46:11
SPEAKER_00: She did that growth trajectory
46:14
SPEAKER_00: at one organization but it doesn't show a varied or diverse
46:20
SPEAKER_00: experience beyond what it's like working at that one organization.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: And when it's
46:25
a small organization of 6,
46:27
12 people,
46:28
it doesn't actually say much about you
46:32
and you know it it just I guess we kind of just know that small
46:34
orgs are more
46:35
likely to do that and it doesn't really prove that you're
46:37
capable to do this job
46:39
SPEAKER_00: that you're applying for now.
46:40
SPEAKER_00: So that's what
46:41
SPEAKER_00: that's what I'm trying to say.
46:44
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back, Paul.
46:47
SPEAKER_01: it's even it's even more destructive and damaging to the
46:51
individual person,
46:52
that thing,
46:54
with this background context of ATS systems
46:58
SPEAKER_01: and AI systems being used to look through people's stuff and be like,
47:02
SPEAKER_01: "Alright, let's look for keywords."
47:05
SPEAKER_01: So, if you've gone from receptionist or
47:08
DFI up to Vice President and then you're out of a job,
47:10
you go looking for another
47:12
SPEAKER_01: job.
47:13
SPEAKER_01: And you apply for, you know, like a mid-senior level job, like a
47:18
SPEAKER_01: manager or director job, and the system sees Vice President in your
47:21
resume,
47:22
is that going to screen you out algorithmically before you even
47:25
get to a
47:25
SPEAKER_00: human?
47:26
SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
47:27
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
47:29
And this and say this person who went from director of first
47:32
impressions to
47:33
SPEAKER_00: director of marketing is out looking for a job.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: they could very well be really
47:38
SPEAKER_00: suited for maybe a marketing manager role with a really good
47:45
salary too,
47:46
but like you said because of that title inflation like they are
47:48
they're going to be screened out as like overqualified or
47:51
whatever when,
47:52
first of
47:52
SPEAKER_00: all, I guarantee you they're not overqualified.
47:54
SPEAKER_00: If anything they're
47:55
SPEAKER_00: underqualified.
47:57
SPEAKER_00: No offense to them, but yeah, and then they're just
48:01
going to get keep getting screened out of opportunities that
48:04
might be suitable
48:04
SPEAKER_01: for them to take.
48:06
SPEAKER_01: Anyway.
48:06
SPEAKER_01: Title and salary.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: Title and
48:08
salary only loosely correlate in the job market,
48:10
like the broad job market.
48:13
SPEAKER_01: You can look for...
48:15
SPEAKER_01: I saw when I was doing a review the other day of
48:18
SPEAKER_01: things for upcoming episodes for the show.
48:20
SPEAKER_01: I ran across a job ad for a
48:23
Manager of Analytics role at a very,
48:26
very large biotech company and the salary
48:32
SPEAKER_01: range that they posted was CAD $135,000 to CAD $160,000 for
48:38
a manager level job right then you go into another organization
48:41
and a manager
48:42
SPEAKER_01: level job looking at analytics and looking at you know like business
48:47
analytics,
48:47
data,
48:47
marketing whatever,
48:48
your salary could between CAD$ 55,000
48:50
SPEAKER_01: and CAD $65,000, right?
48:52
SPEAKER_01: Only a very loose correlation between titles and salary.
48:55
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
48:58
SPEAKER_00: okay.
48:58
SPEAKER_00: So, let's do this.
49:00
SPEAKER_00: let's do our ratings
49:02
SPEAKER_00: for the job.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: the job ad.
49:05
SPEAKER_00: Paul, you go ahead.
49:05
SPEAKER_00: The job, the way it was
49:06
SPEAKER_00: written, the format, all of that stuff.
49:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:12
SPEAKER_01: So, putting putting on my job writing kind of hat, I would give
49:18
SPEAKER_01: this would give this a four.
49:21
SPEAKER_01: It's well structured.
49:23
SPEAKER_01: it does communicate
49:25
SPEAKER_01: what they're looking for in a very cogent, clear kind of way.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: So, it's got
49:29
SPEAKER_01: that going for it.
49:31
SPEAKER_01: There are no grammatical errors.
49:34
SPEAKER_01: There's no
49:34
SPEAKER_01: like syntax stuff.
49:35
SPEAKER_01: There's nothing that's misspelled.
49:37
SPEAKER_01: with the exception
49:39
SPEAKER_01: of you know the sometimes debates versus American English and English
49:44
SPEAKER_01: everywhere else where there's missing 's and missing L's and whatnot.
49:47
SPEAKER_01: American
49:48
SPEAKER_01: position obviously they're using American English spelling so you know
49:53
SPEAKER_01: whatever, fine.
49:54
SPEAKER_01: What they are communicating though in their writing I
49:58
SPEAKER_01: find deeply problematic still.
50:01
SPEAKER_01: A couple of things that stood out for me.
50:06
SPEAKER_01: I wonder after having read the job ad, gone through it, I actually wonder
50:12
if the agency did add some of its own stuff in here because
50:17
there is a little
50:18
SPEAKER_01: bit of duplication.
50:20
SPEAKER_01: You know, they talk about what we're looking for and they
50:26
list out,
50:27
you know,
50:27
five or six bullet points in there that kind of describe
50:30
SPEAKER_01: the candidate.
50:31
SPEAKER_01: Then further down, they have what success looks like and
50:36
successful individuals in this role are and then another five
50:40
six bullet points.
50:42
SPEAKER_01: those two things are the same.
50:43
SPEAKER_00: They're the same, like, you're
50:45
SPEAKER_00: saying...
50:45
SPEAKER_00: I noticed that too...
50:47
SPEAKER_01: we're looking for... this like it's irrelevant duplication.
50:50
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I
50:53
wonder if the agency kind of put in some of their own stuff
50:55
like you had said.
50:56
SPEAKER_01: U
50:57
maybe the client just kind of handed this to them and said use
50:59
this and the
50:59
SPEAKER_01: agency was like we better add some stuff.
51:01
SPEAKER_01: They should have deleted and
51:03
SPEAKER_01: rewritten a lot of stuff, but they didn't.
51:06
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, 4 out of 10 for
51:07
SPEAKER_01: this.
51:09
SPEAKER_01: Well-written, but what they communicated... not great.
51:12
SPEAKER_01: Job,
51:14
SPEAKER_01: or role design, I should say, the design of the job role...
51:20
SPEAKER_01: 1 out of 10.
51:23
SPEAKER_01: And maybe that score is
51:26
SPEAKER_01: coloured a little bit, from my disdain for this whole thing.
51:29
SPEAKER_01: But if we
51:32
look at the what they're saying in the job ad,
51:34
structurally,
51:35
about this job,
51:37
SPEAKER_01: about how the role is going to unfold.
51:38
SPEAKER_01: They're saying you need to be a certain
51:41
person and their characteristics...
51:43
and structurally,
51:43
we kind of talked about
51:45
SPEAKER_01: some of the problems that will likely come up because of that.
51:49
SPEAKER_01: You're
51:49
SPEAKER_01: saying, you know, five days in office, fair.
51:52
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
51:52
SPEAKER_01: You're saying four
51:54
evenings basically,
51:56
you know,
51:56
every week,
51:56
one evening you're going to be at
51:58
SPEAKER_01: a seminar.
51:59
SPEAKER_01: Do that's extra time that I doubt there's going to be overtime for
52:03
SPEAKER_01: something like that.
52:04
SPEAKER_01: And I also doubt that it's going to be compensated
52:07
SPEAKER_01: fairly.
52:07
SPEAKER_01: We don't know, because they don't list a salary range, but I...
52:11
really doubt that there's going to be fair compensation for
52:13
that extra time.
52:15
SPEAKER_01: They're also seeing work trips.
52:17
SPEAKER_01: So that's going to be presumably weekends,
52:20
SPEAKER_01: at least, once in a while, maybe full week retreat type stuff.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
52:26
SPEAKER_01: But then you get into the details of what this person is doing.
52:29
SPEAKER_01: And this job
52:30
role design actually blends three jobs together and they're
52:35
they're kind of
52:36
SPEAKER_01: complementary.
52:37
SPEAKER_01: So maybe it will work if the volume of work is actually kind
52:42
SPEAKER_01: of low for each one.
52:43
SPEAKER_01: But they're looking for someone who is a
52:46
SPEAKER_01: receptionist.
52:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's very clearly kind of outlined.
52:49
SPEAKER_01: You know,
52:49
SPEAKER_01: they're looking for those character- istics, someone to do that job.
52:55
SPEAKER_01: they're looking for someone who is kind of an assistant
52:58
SPEAKER_01: because it says you will manage the calendar of certain people in the
53:03
SPEAKER_01: organization.
53:03
SPEAKER_01: So right there, you're into assistant territory and having a
53:07
SPEAKER_01: receptionist and kind of an assistant.
53:09
SPEAKER_01: Those two things they kind of fit
53:11
together okay in smaller organizations but you're also
53:15
signaling that you want
53:17
SPEAKER_01: someone who is kind of a sales qualifier, right?
53:21
SPEAKER_01: Like you're saying you
53:22
SPEAKER_01: must have CRM experience.
53:23
SPEAKER_01: like they're they're signaling pretty clearly to me
53:26
that this person is going to be a part of the sales pipeline in
53:30
so far as like
53:31
picking up the phone which they say you need to be able to pick
53:34
up the phone
53:35
SPEAKER_01: insofar as that whole thing goes.
53:37
SPEAKER_01: So like you have multiple different jobs
53:39
SPEAKER_01: that are blending together, plus you've got all of those extras that are
53:44
SPEAKER_01: expected of you.
53:45
SPEAKER_01: That's not a recipe for sustainability and resilience and
53:49
SPEAKER_01: success, long term.
53:51
SPEAKER_01: They probably do need someone who is very young, because
53:54
someone who has like been around the block and actually wants
53:57
personal time
53:58
SPEAKER_01: is going to find this job infuriating.
54:00
SPEAKER_01: and they're probably going to say,
54:02
SPEAKER_01: "Bugger it.
54:02
SPEAKER_01: See you later," after not too long, whereas someone who's
54:05
fresh out of university,
54:07
maybe had a year somewhere else,
54:08
maybe they'll put
54:10
SPEAKER_01: up with it a little bit longer.
54:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
54:13
SPEAKER_01: 1 out of 10.
54:13
SPEAKER_01: I don't dig it at all.
54:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:17
SPEAKER_00: I would say... so for me, the ratings, job posting itself... look,
54:22
SPEAKER_00: there's such problematic language, but I'm going to try to...
54:25
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to try to
54:26
SPEAKER_00: look at this at what does the job posting include that we usually don't
54:31
get the opportunity to see and so it does talk about things
54:34
like why this job
54:37
SPEAKER_00: exists and it's because somebody is moving on within the organization,
54:41
SPEAKER_00: like I said, the origin story... we like that.
54:43
SPEAKER_00: So that's good, they talk about
54:46
they talk about what you'll do,
54:47
and they actually list tasks that you will be
54:50
SPEAKER_00: doing day-to-day.
54:51
SPEAKER_00: They talk about what success looks like, which again is
54:54
SPEAKER_00: really more about your personality than anything.
54:58
SPEAKER_00: they're honest about the
54:59
SPEAKER_00: workload.
55:00
SPEAKER_00: They're being pretty honest that it's going to be, you know, a lot.
55:02
SPEAKER_00: they share that schedule, because I would be pissed if I got this job and
55:05
SPEAKER_00: found out after the fact that I was expected to have like four evenings a
55:10
SPEAKER_00: month at these events.
55:12
SPEAKER_00: so they're honest... they're honest about that.
55:14
SPEAKER_00: they talk about like work trips and stuff so you know to bring your bear
55:18
SPEAKER_00: spray with you when you go on a work trip with your CEO.
55:20
SPEAKER_00: so
55:23
SPEAKER_01: is it for the bears or is it for somebody you work with?
55:26
SPEAKER_00: Women always choose the bear in that situation.
55:29
SPEAKER_00: But anyway, so there
55:31
SPEAKER_00: there are some things that actually make sense that are better than other
55:37
SPEAKER_00: job ads that we have seen if I'm being honest.
55:39
SPEAKER_00: If you strip away like all the
55:41
SPEAKER_00: language and stuff, but they're not listing like salary or accommodation,
55:46
they're not even saying like you must be able to lift,
55:48
you know,
55:49
however many
55:50
SPEAKER_00: pounds or need a vehicle or things like that.
55:52
SPEAKER_00: So, it's not great in
55:54
SPEAKER_00: that sense.
55:55
SPEAKER_00: but even for that, I think just because I can't separate the
55:59
the language that they're using from the job ad,
56:01
it still to me is like a two.
56:03
SPEAKER_00: I
56:04
SPEAKER_00: mean, again, a participation award for putting pen to paper, I guess.
56:10
SPEAKER_00: and
56:10
SPEAKER_00: then the job design, too.
56:11
SPEAKER_00: Same thing like you said, like the the title is
56:14
SPEAKER_00: wild to me.
56:15
SPEAKER_00: It's wacky.
56:16
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't make any sense.
56:17
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't say who you're
56:18
SPEAKER_00: reporting to, so we can't quite understand the full structure of that.
56:23
SPEAKER_00: maybe you're reporting to that director of marketing.
56:24
SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
56:25
SPEAKER_00: But
56:26
SPEAKER_00: like, you know, mention a little bit more.
56:29
SPEAKER_00: Who you report to has a huge
56:31
impact on whether or not the role will be sustainable and what
56:34
your experience
56:35
SPEAKER_00: is going to be like.
56:37
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, and what your pathway is going to be
56:39
SPEAKER_01: like too, right?
56:40
SPEAKER_01: Like your growth pathway.
56:42
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
56:43
SPEAKER_00: So, again, I mentioned this earlier, but I think it's like two
56:46
SPEAKER_00: parallel.
56:47
SPEAKER_00: There's like the job itself and then there's like the emotional
56:49
SPEAKER_00: labour job that you're going to have to do.
56:51
SPEAKER_00: I like, straight up, frankly,
56:54
SPEAKER_00: am worried for the individual who gets this job.
56:56
SPEAKER_00: And so, For me, it's
56:59
SPEAKER_00: a huge miss.
57:00
SPEAKER_00: Do I... and actually, I disagree.
57:01
SPEAKER_00: I think that maybe someone
57:03
would stay long-term and not peace out after a few months,
57:05
because we see that
57:07
SPEAKER_00: with the now Director of Marketing, right?
57:09
SPEAKER_00: Like they transitioned into a
57:11
different role in the organization,
57:12
but maybe that was an escape hatch to get
57:14
SPEAKER_00: out of this role.
57:15
SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
57:17
SPEAKER_00: so I think for me it's like a 0 out of
57:20
SPEAKER_00: 10 for the job design itself.
57:22
SPEAKER_00: I feel very angry that they minimized and
57:28
shamed administrative work in the way that they did,
57:30
and then they proceeded to
57:32
SPEAKER_00: just list an administrative job.
57:34
SPEAKER_00: Not your typical average admin job, but yet
57:38
SPEAKER_00: yes, it is.
57:40
SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, to me it's it's super low, like a like a zero.
57:45
SPEAKER_00: but I do think that, you know, if my cellphone is ringing and I need my
57:50
son to answer it for me,
57:51
I will say,
57:52
"Hey,
57:52
Seb,
57:53
can you answer using a live
57:54
SPEAKER_00: answer approach from here?"
57:56
SPEAKER_00: It's going to be my biggest takeaway,
58:01
SPEAKER_00: the best thing that I got from this job ad.
58:03
SPEAKER_00: So,
58:04
SPEAKER_01: you know, they also didn't talk about desired outcomes in this, right?
58:10
SPEAKER_01: Like
58:10
SPEAKER_01: they talked about what success looks like.
58:13
SPEAKER_01: They talked about
58:14
characteristics that they want and some of them like you you
58:17
can you can kind of
58:18
draw a dotted line between those desired characteristics and
58:22
and the purpose for
58:24
the larger business,
58:26
but they they could have done a whole lot more on that
58:29
SPEAKER_01: front.
58:30
SPEAKER_01: I also I almost want to rewrite this job ad and do like we should maybe
58:33
do a case study or something and be like this is the original
58:36
thing that was
58:37
SPEAKER_01: bullsh*t... and this is what it should have looked like.
58:40
SPEAKER_00: That's actually a really good idea.
58:40
SPEAKER_00: I would like to see how maybe we could
58:43
SPEAKER_00: redesign this job ad to be a little bit less like heinous.
58:48
SPEAKER_01: It bothers me so much, this one.
58:50
SPEAKER_00: I know.
58:50
SPEAKER_00: I know.
58:50
SPEAKER_00: And... which is why it
58:52
SPEAKER_00: was like such a good one.
58:55
SPEAKER_00: so just be before we hop off and end this
58:59
SPEAKER_00: live.
58:59
SPEAKER_00: Thank you to everyone who joined.
59:01
SPEAKER_00: It's so much fun reading your comments
59:03
SPEAKER_00: and having your energy there.
59:06
SPEAKER_00: Like it's just
59:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
59:08
SPEAKER_00: I still get super nervous about it, but everyone is just so engaged and
59:13
SPEAKER_00: and warm to us.
59:15
SPEAKER_00: So, we really appreciate it.
59:16
SPEAKER_00: I want to remind people that we are
59:18
SPEAKER_00: always looking for people to come on and judge a job ad with us.
59:22
SPEAKER_00: So, if
59:22
SPEAKER_00: you're ever interested in being a special guest, you have a certain
59:27
SPEAKER_00: area of expertise or a sector that you're really familiar with, or just
59:31
SPEAKER_00: want to have a good time, let us know.
59:34
SPEAKER_00: and if you have a job ad that you
59:36
SPEAKER_00: want us to roast, please let us know.
59:39
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, thank you.
59:42
SPEAKER_01: Hit up our hit up our Substack: RoastThePost.show, there are links
59:45
SPEAKER_01: for both of those.
59:47
SPEAKER_01: If you want to join us on the show as a guest, we do
59:50
SPEAKER_01: that once a month.
59:51
SPEAKER_01: there's a little thing in there that's just like tell us
59:53
SPEAKER_01: about yourself.
59:54
SPEAKER_01: And same thing with job ads.
59:55
SPEAKER_01: If you find a crazy job ad, hit
59:58
up the other link and copy and paste the job ad in there so we
1:00:00
can look at it
1:00:02
SPEAKER_01: before it goes down because some of these disappear.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_01: And that's like I found
1:00:06
SPEAKER_01: one that was awesome that would have made a great episode.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_01: it was for a
1:00:10
SPEAKER_01: it was for a quality test engineer and it was just mad, but disappeared.
1:00:14
SPEAKER_01: I know.
1:00:15
SPEAKER_00: I know that that happens too sometimes where someone has probably
1:00:17
SPEAKER_00: someone has a look at it and they're like, "Oh, this we got to get rid of
1:00:22
SPEAKER_00: this."
1:00:23
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, absolutely.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_00: And, to me, this personally was like one
1:00:29
SPEAKER_00: of our like it was just so much fun.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_00: This was a really fun one.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_00: So, thank you
1:00:33
SPEAKER_00: everyone.
1:00:33
SPEAKER_01: It was a good find.
1:00:35
SPEAKER_00: I think we can consider this post roasted.