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The Charge of the Light Brigade · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, just cracking us up. And
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: this is stuff you should know.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: That's right. Kind of a rare detailed war battle episode.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't do a lot of war stuff.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a little bit here and there.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: A little here there. Yeah, but usually it's like some
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: crazy commando story like you're right, you know, and usually
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: where the Nazis are getting beat up because we love
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: that narrative.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we usually don't like, say, hey, let's dive into
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: some specific battles of the Crimean War.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Right, But for all of you fans of the Crimean
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: War who didn't look at the title, you're like, oh,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: I know what this one's about. Of course, it's about
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: the Charge of the Light Brigade. And if you were
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: an English student, sorry and English student and you studied poetry,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: you're probably familiar with the poem The Charge of the
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Light Brigade by Alfred Kama Lord Tennyson. I think you're
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: supposed to say the comm out lab from what I understand, Yeah,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: like the colon, but that was a real deal that
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: really happened, and it's a really complicated, complex story that's
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: also extremely fascinating and totally nuts at the end.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I guess we should probably set up a
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: little bit about just what the Crimean War was.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So the Crimean War was over the course of
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: a few years from eighteen fifty three to fifty six.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: It was in Europe, fought between Russia and Britain, France,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: and Turkey, which was part of the Ottoman Empire. Turkey
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: was that is, and it was known for a lot
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: of things. There were some you know, interesting people that
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: came out of this ended up being super famous, and
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of lives lost, but notably, most of the
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: half a million lives lost, like maybe as many as
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: seventy five percent died from disease and things like that
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: instead of on the battlefield.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is terrible. That was a reason that two
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: now famous women showed up to help. One was Florence Nightingale,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: who was very well known as the Lady with the Lamp.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: She showed up and started using like evidence based treatments
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: and apparently the mortality rate at these horrible field hospitals
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: went from forty one percent when she showed up down
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: to two percent at the end of the war. It's
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: pretty impressive. And then there's a less well known woman
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: named Mary Secole who was born in Jamaica. She was
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: mixed race, and she appealed to be sent to the
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Crimean Front, like Florence Nightingale, was was turned down. So
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: she went herself and showed up and made huge, huge
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: gains and saving lives there as well.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was the first big war covered by
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: the press. Notably, Tolstoy got to start there, you know,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: writing about the you know, dispatches from the front basically, right.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: It's also weirdly where the black lava comes from. That,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: you know, the what we in America might call a
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: ski mask or a scary mask, or a scary mask
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: or a cat burglar mask, it comes from here. So
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: lots of sort of little weird things. And obviously, like
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: you mentioned the Charge of the Light Brigade, the very
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: famous poem. But the whole thing started over a religious
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: argument basically in the Ottoman Empire, wherein for several years
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: the French Catholics were battling it out with the Russian
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Orthodox Church over who controlled the holy sites the Christian
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: holy sites within the Ottoman Empire, which really ticked off
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Zar Nicholas the First.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so he also we should say the Ottoman Empire
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: was very powerful for a while, but we're joining them
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: at the twilight, maybe even the end of their empire,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: which I think broke up in World War One, and
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: this is about sixty years before that. So the Ottoman
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Empire was not in a very good position to defend
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: itself against our Nicholas the First, who's like, oh, yeah, well,
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: I'm going to invade part of your Ottoman Empire, and
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: I'm going to invade what's in modern day Romania, Moldavia
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: and Wallachia, which is where Dracula is from. And he invaded,
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: and again the Ottoman Empire, I think they were known
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: as the sick man of Europe. There was not a
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: lot they can do about it. So France and Britain
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: came to their aid, and not for any necessarily altruistic reason,
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: but because they were not happy with the idea of
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Russian expanding itself into Europe and in particular getting a
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: foothold in the Mediterranean. And when they set up shop
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: in Wallachia and Moldavia, they were on the Danube, which
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: would take them straight to the Mediterranean. So France and
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Britain became concerned and they're like, well, back you up,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Ottoman Empire.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's boy. The more things changed, the more they
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: say the same.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. Man.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: It's crazy when you see this stuff that happened back
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: in the eighteen fifties and you can draw sort of
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: a straight line to the things that happened today in
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Russian expansion. It's just really interesting stuff.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: But all that to say is that what is now,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: like you said, modern day Romania. He now occupied France
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: and Britain got their hackles up. They sent warships to
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: the Black Sea in eighteen fifty three, declared war on
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Russian in eighteen fifty four, and the first big you know,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: this could have ended at all, The first big major
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: defeat against that English and French alliance was at Odessa.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: They're in the Black Sea and Czar Nicholas withdrew basically
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: that land he had occupied. He pulled back out in
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: July of eighteen fifty four, and that could have been
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: the end of it. But the Frenchies and the Brits said,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: you know what, now we want to punish them for
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: their aggression. So we're going to go on the offensive.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: And that turned out to be a bit of a boondoggle.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: It did. Nations do that kind of thing though, when,
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: especially when they soundly defeat an expansionist nation, they often
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: want to make an example of be like, don't try
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: that again. This is not like completely out of left field,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: but yeah, the way it turned out was not great.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: And they chose to invade Russia by landing on the
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Crimean Peninsula. And they chose Crimea for a couple of reasons.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: One it's where Russia's naval ships were stationed that they
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: would use to take over the Mediterranean if they could
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: get a foothold there. And then two, they couldn't make
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: it to mainland Russia because Germany was neutral at the time.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: They were the Austro Prussian I guess Kingdom. They're like,
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: you can't send your troops through here to get to Russia.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: They're like, okay, we'll go attack Crimea. And then there
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: was one other thing about Crimea, chuck. It offered a
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: way to attack navally, which is what the Brits favored,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: and it also offered, at the same time a way
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: to attack on land, which is what the French preferred,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: and so surf and turf exactly. It was the surf
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: and turf strategy. And yeah, the Crimean Peninsula served all
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: of those purposes.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which was mainland Ukraine by the way. So I
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: guess the first battle, or oh, not the first battle.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: I guess this would be the second battle we're talking about,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: and the one that really sets up the story of
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: the Charge of the Light Brigade is the siege of
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: You know, in California, there's a town called Sebastopol with
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: a B.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my aunt lives there in Sebastopol.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: H It's quite nice. It is lovely wooded northern California. Yes,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: I've been there myself.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: Okay, but this is with a V.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: And I don't know if it's probably not pronounced Sebastopol.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: It's probably Sebastopole, would be my guess.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Oh you know what, I've never heard anybody say it
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: like that, but I'll bet you're right. I'll bet a
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: bunch of Ukrainians just stood up and went.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder if there was any connection there too.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: I was going to look that up.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: Surely there's got to be a heck of a coincidence.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Somebody just put a bunch of letters together. They're like
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: Sebastopol also.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: The name of a good solo album by j Ferrar
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: of Uncle Tuplo and Sunbolt.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Is Sebastopol nice with a B or a V with
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: a b Okay, wait, did you say B or V
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: because they rhyme.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: B is in boy. Do we need to get back
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: to the topic at hand, V as in boy? All right,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: it's September eighteen fifty four. We've got a little over
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: sixty thousand troops total from this alliance, thirty thousand from
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: the French, about twenty six thousand British troops and about
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: forty five hundred Turks. They land on the coast of
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Crimea and start to hike inland for the Turf section
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: thirty miles in and that port city of Sebastpol is
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: where they're headed.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's I think that's where the Russians had
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: their there that navy that they would invade the Mediterranean with,
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: and the Russian commander was again named Prince Alexander Sergeyevich Menschikov.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Great name. Russians have great names.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Right, there was I think an initial skirmish after they
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: landed at Kalameda Bay, but it didn't really count as
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: the first battle. The first battle was the Battle of
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: the Alma River, and that's where Menschikov decided like, okay,
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: this is where we're going to start to take on
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: this alliance force. And they It was a pretty serious battle.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: I think both sides lost many thousands of men, but
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: the Brits and the French were not turned back. The
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Russians retreated instead.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: That's right, And this is when a really interesting decision
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: comes about. They were worried that there were more Russian
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: armies coming in to that, you know, port city to
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: help defend their navy, guess, and so they said, all right,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: here's what we're going to do. We're going to do
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: the old hook and ladder and we're going to take
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: a wide path around the city so we can attack
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: from the south. What they didn't know was that at
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: that time it was very poorly defended there. So if
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: they would have if they would have just kept charging forward,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: it probably would have been over pretty quickly. But since
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: they took the long way around, which they thought was
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: a decent strategy, that gave the Russians the chance to
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: refortify basically and stock up with men and supplies.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they couldn't have known that the city wasn't
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: very well defended, but everybody had fled and apparently they
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: sunk a bunch of ships in the harbor to keep
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: the British navy from being able to land there.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but in part of war trying to know that stuff.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, and ironically you would use the light Brigade for
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, to scout and spy and report back.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Okay. So when you said they couldn't have known, what
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: you really meant was they did no because they didn't
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: do it good.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: That's yes, Yes, Okay, you're right. So for the siege
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: of Sevestopol, not just the Russians set up and refortified
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: the city. The British basically regrouped and they settled at
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: a port town called Balaklava, and it's about ten miles
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: south of Sevastopol. And like you said, that's where the
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: head gear comes from, or the name of it, because
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: it actually doesn't just come from that town, it comes
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: from this actual battle that happened there. So there's a
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: road between Balaklava and Sevastopol, and they are because they're connected.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: Both sides need that for supplies, right, Yeah, So it's
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: a really strategically important road. And before the Brits could
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: try to take the road or secure it, the Russians
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: decided to and they made a really risky move. They
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: took some of their troops who were battling because by
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: this time the Brits and the French were now laying
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: siege to Sevastopol and the Russians were fighting them off.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: And the Russians took some of their troops and moved
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: them around the Siegers and put them squarely between the
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Alliance forces sieging Sevastopol and the Alliance forces at Balaklava
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: on the road to try to take the road. It
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: was a risky move, but it was also what they
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: had to do to kind of cut the Brits off,
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: the sieging Brits off from supplies ten miles south at Balaklava.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: That's right. So they attack these artillery positions of the
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Allieds on the hills outside of Balaklava. It turned into
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: a pretty chaotic battle scene there, and the Russians did
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: pretty good at first. They had a lot of cavalry.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: They had a pretty substantial infantry there and they captured
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: these gun positions, these Turkish and British gun positions on
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: that hilltop and this is a place called Cosway Heights.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: They tried next to take another town called Catechuoy, and
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: that was basically the last the last stop before you
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: got to Balaklava. But this is where the Scots come in.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: The legendary ninety third Sutherland Highlanders wearing kilts with swords
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: and rifles underwear. Yeah, I mean that's the most you know,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: intimidating part of all of this.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: They were led by Major General Sir Colin Campbell, and
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: he had a pretty good idea to defeat these guys
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: and it worked.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Normally the Highlanders would form a square of four rows, right,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: and you're able to defend your flank a lot easier.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: There's less men exposed in steag Campbell said we're going
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: to form two lines, and they were like this is
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: mind blowing. So there were more men exposed, but they
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: were able to shoot further across, right.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just bullets basically.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And it turned out that the the Highlanders
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: were successful in attacking the Russian cavalry. I'm sorry. The
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Highlanders were standing the ground to defend Katakhoi, and it
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: was the Russian cavalry that was rushing at them. The
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Highlanders fired on them. There was a volley of of
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: musket or bullets, I guess, and the Russians were like,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: oh no, and they turned left. And when they turned left,
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: they exposed their flank, and the Highlanders fired again and
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: really just messed the Russian cavalry up and just caused
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: disarray and they had to retreat. So it was a
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: really good stand, so much so that like these guys,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: like you said, they're legendary now in part because of
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: this battle. And I guess I should probably say, I
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: think i'm am I saying cavalry cavalry.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: I think you're probably accidentally saying cavalry, which I do
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: all the time too. But that's where Jesus was crucified, right.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Right, So cavalry is the horseback troops.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: They should really have named those things two completely different
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: sounding yes, exactly, very confusing. And the only reason I
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: even know is because there's a lot of old hymns,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: church hymns that I sang that that you sing about cavalry.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I know all about that.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Did you sing hymns.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Not about cavalry? The Catholics don't pay attention to that
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: for some reason.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I just didn't know how much Catholics sang in church.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Oh dude, I don't even know if you can call
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: it singing unless it's kind of like a Reformists seventies
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: hippie church. It's chanting, okay, and it scares the Jesus
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: out of non Catholics who like, go with a friend
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: to a Catholic mass. It freaks people out.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: I got you because in Baptist churches it was just
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: the big, bombastic sort of you know, hymnal songs. Sure, sure, yeah,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: maybe maybe more fun, but I don't know than chanting. Yeah,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: but I never chanted.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Well, you used to try it sometime.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: All right, I'll give it a shot. Where do we
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: leave that The Scott's the Highlanders won And did you
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: did you say that that's where we got the term
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: the thin red line.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: No, No, I didn't mention that.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So you know, we talked about this being one
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: of the first major wars where there was journalism going on,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: and those a guy named William Howard Russell.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: Was he Irish, I think, yeah, he was an Irish correspondent.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so he was riding from the front lines and
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: in the Times he described the line of men that
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: you know, those two lines of men and their brick
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: red coats. Is the a thin red streak tipped with
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: steel and that eventually morphed into the Thin Red Line,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: which is another weird sort of thing that came out
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: of this war.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and another really hardcore war movie, too, Good One
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: or no, I'm thinking of Big Red One.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, The Thin Red Line was Terrence Mallock. They're
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: both the war movies.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Okay, but I was thinking of the is it Big
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Red One?
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: That was that was good too. Mark Hamill and the
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: guy from Revenge of the Nerds.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Mark Hamill gets his testicles own off
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: by a grenade.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Somebody does. I think? I said before that was the
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: first rated movie I saw on at theater, And yeah,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: that was it. Mark Hamill's testicles.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: I believe it was. But I could just be making
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: that part up.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: I gotcha.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: Hey, So one more thing before we go to break,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: because I can sense that coming on. This is the
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: this is the first war as far as I know where.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Some soldiers' wives traveled with them to the front and
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: basically like set up a household there. It was a
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: very bizarre setup, and they were very unhappy there because
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: it was not a fun place to be. Yeah, but
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: they were there to support their husbands. A lot of
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: them were.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: Wow, man crime me and work who knew? Yeah, all right,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: well we'll be right back right.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: Yes, all right, softly jaw.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: Soft, all right. So I feel like we've kind of
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: been dancing around this whole light brigade thing, and for
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: a long time, until I started researching this for this episode,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: I just assumed light as in like a bright light
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: or something like that.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Oh interesting, Okay, it makes way.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: More sense now that what you're talking about is a
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: light brigade.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Right, like weight weight wise sort of, yeah.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Rather than as opposed to a heavy brigade, both of
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: which are part of the cavalry that the Brits and
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: the French used at the time. Yeah.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: And when I said weight wise, I meant, you know,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: lighter horses, faster horses, presumably lighter men on those horses.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I imagine it was just a bunch of people that were
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: fleet to poot and horses that were fleet of hoof.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Their job if you were a light brigade was to
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: ride very quickly across the battlefield, to move places with
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: great speed, sometimes to deliver battle orders with great speed.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: The heavy brigade is exactly what you would think. Bigger horses,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: bigger men, close combat, breaking through enemy lines, kind of
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: kicking button, taking names.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so like when the heavy brigade broke up
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: the enemy line is like the enemy was retreating, you'd
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: send in the light brigade, who would chase the enemy
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: down and slash them with their swords and stuff.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, they probably had better hair in the light brigades.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: They probably did, you.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Know, like the handsome like all right, now all the
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: rough stuff's done, get us in here a fleet.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Horses with their habsburg chins.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Oh totally.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: So there was in addition to the charge of the
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: light brigade at this So we're at the Battle of
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Balaklava still, this is where all of this happens. Right,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: Remember that the Highlanders already turned back the Russian caval once.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Now that heavy brigade is actually sent in. Their charge
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: of the heavy heavy brigade came before the charge of
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: the light Brigade, and I think it was pretty effective
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: when they when they hit up the Russians. I think
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: there were eight hundred horsemen in the heavy brigade running
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: into three thousand Russians in the Russian line.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's the heavy brigade, so they did a
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: lot of damage the Russian cavalry. Now it's in my head.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: They kind of scrambled to get out of there. And
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: here's where we get to a point where there's a
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: sort of a fateful, confusing order that brings us to
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: the actual Light Brigade story. And we're going to introduce
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: some people here, none of whom seem to be very
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: competent at warring. So basically people like you and I
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: would have been.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, imagine if we were rich and said I want
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: to be a lieutenant. I'm going to pay to be
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: a lieutenant in the Army of command soldiers.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: That was the thing.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: That's exactly what these men had done. With the exception
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: of Lord Raglan, he had battle experience. He had fought
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Napoleon at Waterloo. He lost an arm in that battle,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: so he was a war hero. But he was twenty
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: five when that happened, and by this time he was
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: sixty five, a little dotty maybe he apparently remember there
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: was a French English alliance that was battling the Russians.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: But when he would refer to the French, say strategically
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: they were talking about what the French were doing, he'd
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: refer to them as the enemy. That was very confusing.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: And this battle, the Battle of Balaklava, was the first
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: time that he had ever led, like commanded men in battle.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Up to that point, he'd been subordinate. This was the
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: first time he was the one calling the shots for
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: the battle, so he had the most experience, and this
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: was the first time he was.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Doing yeah, for sure. So he gets up on this
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: high about a six hundred foot high ridge, so he's
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: got a great view of the battlefield. The guys down
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: there don't have any kind of view at all. So
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: the orders are going to be getting maybe a little
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: bit confusing because they can't really see what's going on,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: like Raglan can. He's also pretty far away, so it
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: takes twenty minutes to get even with the light Horse brigade, Yeah,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: or the light Runner who will meet in a minute too.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Who hates everybody that's involved here as it turns out
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: it takes him about twenty minutes to get there and
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: deliver an order, and you know, presumably a little bit
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: of time to sort of suss that out, and then
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: another twenty minutes to come back. So it's probably like
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: forty minutes to an hour for this whole exchange of
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: information to take place. And what Raglin is trying to
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: do is trying to stop the enemy from taking away
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: these heavy guns that they had captured at that Causeway
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Heights battle, and so he sends the following order. Lord
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Ragland wishes the cavalry to advance rapidly to the front,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: follow the enemy and try to prevent the enemy carrying
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: away the guns. Troup horse artillery may accompany French cavalry
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: as on your left immediate. Okay, a little vague, that's
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: that's the message. A little bit vague.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's problem one. It's vague. Problem two is,
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: like you said, Ragland's up six hundred feet with a
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: bird's eye view of everything going on, and the two
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: men who received this order, the Earl of Luken George Bingham,
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: and the Earl of Cardigan, James Brudenell, they're down in
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: one of the valleys, so they can't see these captured
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: guns that Ragland's talking about. And when this man who
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: you said hated everybody, showed up, Captain Lewis Nolan, they're like, wait,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: what's going on? What are you talking about? And before
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: we get into that, we should probably talk a little
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: bit about Bingham and bruden because we kind of disparaged
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: them a little bit, and I think we should explain why.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you mentioned being able to pay for
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: a position. That's what both of these guys did. They
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: paid for this position of leading these men. They were
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: both wealthy gentlemen. I believe Brudenelle, the Earl of Cardigan,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: was described at one point as brave, handsome, bad tempered,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: and brainless. And these guys were brothers in law who
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: hated each other's guts. So Cardigan was a subordinate to
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Lucan and didn't like being under his command. And like
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: you said, this guy Nolan didn't like either one of them.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: He said, and these are quotes he said, we call
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Lucan the cautious ass and Lord Cardigan the dangerous ass.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: And Lord Cardigan has as much brains as his boot.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: So no respect seemingly is happening for these dudes down
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: there leading these charges.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: No one other thing that balaklava hedgear came out of
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: this battle. So did the Cardigan sweater.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Now don't know whether or not it is legit. I
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: are eighteen to believe.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Totally get that. I totally get that. This is one
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: of those things where it's like, no, I'm joking, this
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: is true. It's named after James Brudenell, the Earl of Cardigan,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: I think the seventh Earl of Cardigan.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Because I almost looked that up, but I just ran
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: out of time because we're recording early and I had
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: a hunch, but I didn't get to it. So you're
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: not pulling my my ski.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Rope, No, your rope trauma rope, my rope drama.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, another little crimean warfact. I like that.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: And one other thing about George Bingham, the Earl of Luken.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: He made his money by as a landlord for poor
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Irish tenant farmers. Yeah, and then would evict them and
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: send them to the poorhouse when they couldn't pay rent.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: He was not a good guy at all, but that's
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: how he became wealthy enough to buy his position as
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: a commander of the brigade the cavalry.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: I guess, right, all right, so no one delivers this order. He's, like,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: we said, a pretty fast rider on that horse. He
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: gets there pretty quickly. We don't know. This is where
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: things get a little confusing. We don't know if he
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: had other motives because he didn't like these guys. He
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: also was in the light brigade and he wanted to
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: see some action and at that Battle of the Alma
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: River didn't get any action. And I think he was
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: even frustrated because Lucan had orders to dispatch the light brigade.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: It didn't take it. Like these guys wanted to see action,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: they wanted to be heroes on the battlefield. So he
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: gets down there to deliver this message. They're looking around,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: going a light what guns are you talking about? And
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: he basically just says over there, He points at the
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: end of the valley and said, there, my lord, is
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: your enemy. These there are your guns, which was not
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: the correct direction to point.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: No, he was pointing at a heavily fortified Russian gun
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: position right there are apparently like thirty or forty cannons there.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: And what again Raglan was talking about were some poorly
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: defended captured artillery guns elsewhere, right, I think they were
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: on one of the sides. So when he pointed, he
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: was pointing to the center of three heavily fortified Russian
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: positions on a I think a ridge overlooking a valley,
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: and basically said, Raglan is telling you to charge the lightpergade.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: This isn't even a job for a lightpergate, but you
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: and the lightpergate are supposed to charge straight to those
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Russian guns in the middle of this horribly dangerous place
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: for you guys to be. Let's go.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: That's right. And we don't know why he did that.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: We don't know if he was confused. We didn't know
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: if he was doing it on purpose because he hated
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: these guys. We don't know if he was doing it
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: on purpose because he wanted that action. We don't know
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: all this stuff. Because the guy who got the message
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: wrong was one of the first people killed during this charge,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: which is not funny. I'm not laughing, but it's just
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, this was known as sort of a war
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: folly by the end of it, even though as we'll see,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: it didn't turn out to be a complete loss.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: No, I know, we haven't gotten to the Light Brigade,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: the actual charge yet, but should we take a break.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, I think it fits the act structure.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Sorry everybody, we'll be right back.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: Stuffing jaw stoff you.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: All right. So now we're finally at the light Brigade charge.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: It was not supposed to happen that way. Again, it
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: was a misunderstood or misdelivered at least order and Lucan
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: and Cardigan didn't know they had six hundred seventy cavalrymen
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: in this light brigade. One of the most famous blunders
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: in military history. They said basically, all right, let's do
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: this thing, and they went charging through what was known
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: as the Valley of Death.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and there was no one there who was like, oh, okay,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: that's this is a good idea, let's do this. But
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: they didn't question the orders. So when they entered this
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Valley of Death, that's why I think Tennyson called it
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: later right, Yeah, they were again charging right for Russian
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: cannon straight ahead, and then there were Russian artillery positions
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: on either side, and they're running right through this and
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: right when they start riding through the the this Valley
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: of Death, they just start getting fired upon. They're fired
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: upon from all three directions, although apparently not all at
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: the same time, but still like this was a it
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: was essentially a suicide mission that they'd just been sent
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: on and it just went badly immediate.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they were people that survived it, and they said
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: that limbs were being shot off, heads were being shot off,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Horses were running around without people on them, or with
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: just bodies on them, without heads. There was so much smoke.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Apparently one soldier said it was like riding into the
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: mouth of a volcano. That the heavy brigade it was
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: going so badly. The heavy brigade was supposed to follow.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: It was kind of reversed, I guess, and Lucan said, no,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: he pulled those orders back and pulled back the heavy
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: brigade even.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: He said, they have sacrificed the light brigade. That shall
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: not have the heavy if I can help it. Yeah,
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: So what's crazy about this is these six hundred and
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: seventy five riders riding into three thousand ish Russians and
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: their cannons. Most of them, the majority of them made it.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: They made it to these Russian lines and they broke
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: them up. They actually at least the Russian artillery position
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: they were charging toward in the center. Yeah, they captured that.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: They actually managed to force the Russian soldiers to retreat
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: from that, and so they captured those guns. That's insane
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: that that happened like this should have there should have
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: been no one alive, and yet they actually fulfilled this
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: nutsoe mission that should have never happened in the first
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: place because it was a miscommunication.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and they ended up getting all three of those
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: positions because they went back into position. The light brigade
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: took out one of those positions, which, by the way,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know if we made it clear, but one
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: of those positions was the original order, which I guess
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: they eventually got to, right, they just did it out
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: of order. And then the other one was destroyed by
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: a French light cavalry unit called the African Hunters or
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: the how would you pronounce that? Very nice?
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Thanks. It took three years of French in high school.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Hey, it's been paying off for eighteen years for us.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: So French from you, little German for me and everything
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: else mispronounced.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Oh well, don't forget your Italian accent though. Well, sure
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: we have the whole of Europe covered, yeah, most of it.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: So when the Lpergate charged through this Valley of death
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: and broke up the Russian artilleries and the French broke
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: up another one. I think there was actually one left still,
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: they had to ride back and were being fired upon
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: by that remaining one too, So they had to ride
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: back from the valley to get to where they started back,
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: you know, to safety again. And when they got back
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: they found that of the six hundred and seventy members
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: of the Lpergate who undertook this charge, one hundred and
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: ten were killed, one hundred and sixty were wounded, three
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: hundred and seventy five horses were killed, so six hundred
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: and seventy of the members, more than half of them
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: lost their horse. And apparently some of the men told
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Cardigan that they were ready to go again.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess it was, uh, you know, they felt
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: like they did good work, they wanted to do more.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, I can't imagine if you thought you were
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: going on a suicide mission and it actually works out
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: and you made it back alive. I'm sure you were
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: invigorated as probably under selling it.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but guys like you and I would have said,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: how about we don't do that again.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: We would have been like, wait, are you sure that's
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: what he said, because this doesn't make any sense. Let's
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: talk this through.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: All right. So William Howard Russell is riding about this
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: thing like we talked about. He is the one that
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: ends up and he did some beautiful riding as far
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: as that kind of stuff goes, But he isn't the
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: one who ended up inspiring Tennyson's poem. Maybe i'll read
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: this last line at least it's a pretty good example. Yeah,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: at the distance of twelve hundred yards, the whole line
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: of the enemy belched forth from thirty iron mouths, a
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: flood of smoke and flame, through which hissed the deadly balls.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Their flight was marked by instant gaps in our ranks,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: by dead men and horses, by steeds flying wounded or
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: riderless across the plane.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: That's pretty good reporting.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty good stuff.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: So I think you mentioned before that the charge of
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: the light brigade is viewed as an enormous military blunder.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: It's still very much taught in schools as like what
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: not to do. It's also I think it's also shorthand
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: among military people as like for any senseless waste of soldiers'
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: lives by higher up calling higher ups, calling bad shots.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: But it's also revered as an incredibly brave, courageous act.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: And that's what celebrated, not not the fact that they
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: even were successful. That's not the most celebrated fact. It
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: was that these men just basically put their nose down
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: and did what they had to do. However you feel
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: about that, that's essentially what the what the poem celebrates
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: most of all.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which was when he was Poet Laureate of England
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: in eight fifty I think think it was about six
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: weeks after that battle is when he published The Charge
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: of the Light Brigade and the Examiner initially, yeah, should
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: we read this last the second stanza.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the most famous of all of them.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Why don't you take this one?
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: I think you should?
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, forward the light Brigade. Was there a man dismayed,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: not though the soldier knew someone had blundered theirs, not
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: to make reply their's, not to reason why theirs, but
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: to do and die into the valley of death rode
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: the six hundred.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and apparently Tennyson recorded himself reading this on a
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: wax cylinder, And there's places on the internet, including Amazing Tube,
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: I believe, where you can hear it. And it bears
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: an uncanny resemblance to that remember that doll in the
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Doll's episode the Old Time he talking doll from the
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: nineteenth century. It sounds a little bit like that. But
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: even getting past that, he I don't think he does
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: a very good job reading it. It's the worst reading
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: I've heard of that ever.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: So you're saying my reading is better than Tennyson's own.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: I am it is.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, so way to go, man, who I
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: appreciate that. Maybe I should be Poet Laureate Reader of England.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: I've been secretly lobbying for you to be named Poet
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Laureate of the US for years now.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: My high school had a poet laureate. Who was it,
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Natasha Trethaway if I'm not mistaken. Wow, she was there
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: when I was there. Pretty cool stuff.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: It's impressive you remember that.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think she might have been in my grade, So,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: yeah she was. Who knows, I might have had English
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: class with her for all I know. So there was
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: also from Tennyson, the charge of the heavy Brigade at
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: ballack Lava. It was years after the war though, and
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: this was and this is kind of where we end
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: the story is British war veterans had a very hard
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: time after this in a lot of cases, and there
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: were many efforts to try and raise money and raise
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: awareness for that that a lot of them went to
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: poorhouses and weren't cared for. And this poem was written
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: years later to try and raise money for these war
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: veterans along with Kipling.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: Right, Kipling wrote another one, the Last of the Light Brigade,
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: that actually commemorates the charge of the Heavy Brigade at
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Balaklava and Tennyson's writing of it, and Tennyson actually makes
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: an appearance in this Kipling poem, but both of them
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: were basically for the same reason to call attention to
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: the fact that these Crimean war veterans had just been
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: totally abandoned by their nations and were living in total
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: poverty in a lot of cases. And what's really said
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: is that a fundraising effort that Tennyson led thanks to
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: his poem and his fame too, I mean, like he
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: was a very famous person. Yeah, at this time, they
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: were only able to collect twenty four pounds.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: That can't can't have been too much even back then. No,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: there were a couple of movies. There was one from
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: nineteen thirty six, The Charge of the Light Brigade with
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: Errol Flynn and Olivia de Hablind.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: And Olivia to Hablin had her breakthrough role in Airport
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: seventy seven years later.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what she's known for. It was a love
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: triangle movie about British British soldiers that takes place, you know,
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: sort of around this fatal charge. And then another one
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: from sixty eight, right.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's called The Charge of the Lightpergade. But this
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: one is a satires, satirizing the British aristocracy, especially in
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: the Victorian Age, essentially just hungering for war so they
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: could get their own glory again, buying offices or ranks
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: in the military. And it was John Gielgood as Lord Cardigan.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I haven't seen.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: It, Vanessa Redgrave like, what a cast.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's quite quite a cast. Every time I see
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: John Gielgood or hear his name, I replace his name
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: with doctor feel Good the Motley Crue song. He's the
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: one they called John, Sir John Gielgod. You have to
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: add this, sir.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: He's the one they call Sir John giel Good.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: There it is. He's the one that makes it feel
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: all right, that's right.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: If you're watching Arthur, that.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Is was he in? That was he the butler?
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he want to Oscar for that role
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: for the butler.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I mean, that's impressive.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: He was great and this is one of my favorite
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: movies growing up still is awesome.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the charge of the lipergade everybody, that's right,
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: Chuck said, that's right. So it's time for listener mail.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, long story short, I've been listening for four
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: plus years, and, as many others say, you to have
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: no idea how much appreciation your fan base has for
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: you writing this. I was scouring through old episodes. I
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: came acrossing up where you two disagreed on the subject.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was, but you kept the
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: animated conversation going for a few minutes. It was a
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: subtle reminder that the two of you just like anybody
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: else or friends and can totally have disagreements or different opinions.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: But let's have a little fun. Can you share an
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: example of when you disagreed with the other but rather
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: than voice it on the air, you kept it to yourself.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Or are there any topics where you had a disagreement
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: and you cut it out? That is warmly from Warner
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Finn ps, Mom and Dad. I'll go ahead and answer
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: for my part in that. I don't think we've ever
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: had a disagreement that we've like off cut out of
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: the episode that I can think of.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: No, we almost, Yeah, we leave those in. I can't
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: think of one either.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I can't think of I mean, there's the
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: famous you know, watering the lawns and things like that
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: from past episodes. But I mean, I'm sure there's lots
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: of little things I might disagree on it in the
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: moment that I keep to myself that just aren't a
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: big deal, and I don't bring them up because it's
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: just not worth mentioning in a show episode.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you want to keep the show going. Plus Also,
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, you can only correct one another so often
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: before you start seeming like a know it all or whatever,
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: or it just is interruptive most of the time. It
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: just doesn't matter. Like chassis. You remember you're saying chassis, right,
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: and I didn't correct you, man, it just didn't matter,
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and uh yeah, I think that sums it
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: up best. We uh and on just big stuff philosophically,
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: we're pretty much aligned as humans and friends. So like,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: that's why there's never any big stuff is because we
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: both kind of park our cars in the same garage.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: It would be the most part you much different podcast
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: if we if we didn't see eye to eye generally
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: on the big stuff.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: I think yeah, And I mean, I think most of
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: the disagreements are like you didn't like that movie that
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff, right, and who cares about that?
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Or you've never had pizza rolls.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I don't like pickles and mustard, And even
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: though you're determined to you, it's me. There's a pickle
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: and a mustard.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: I might like, Yeah, no, I finally accepted both. Okay,
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: I've accepted it that you don't like pickles.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: It's okay, Well that's recent because last week you tried
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: to feed me a pickle mustard samwich.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: It's just from yesterday. I really gave a lot of
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: thought to it in the sauna. Okay, good, and yeah,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: I'm like, you just didn't like pickles.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: I wonder what you were thinking about that day?
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: That was it?
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: All right?
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: All right? Who was that from?
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: That was from Warner Fenn in Los Angeles. Oh, that's it.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: You're gonna see something else, Thanks a lot, Warner.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: I was, but I stopped myself.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: See how that happened. Were you gonna correct me or something?
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: No, not at all. I'll tell you.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, Thanks a lot Warner. That was a really great email.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: It reminds me of the kind of questions we get
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: at the Q and A we do at our live shows,
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: which we have coming up. I think we're probably in
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: the middle of them right now when this comes out.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: That's right, or we're gonna be other places too, So
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: you can find out where we're gonna be by going
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: to Stuffishould Know dot com and clicking on the on
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: tour button. And in the meantime, if you want to
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: send us an email like Warner did, you can send
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: it to stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.