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Families unite across politics against glyphosate risks · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:10
  Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of the Maha Lowdown.
• 0:14
  I'm Jeff Lauterbach, a national reporter with the Epic Times.
• 0:18
  And today we're going to just dive right in this segment.
• 0:23
  Before I introduce the our guest, uh, I'm going to tell you a little bit about yesterday obviously this air is uh starting on Wednesday.
• 0:33
  So I'm going to tell you a little bit about uh what happened at the people versus poison rally here earlier this week.
• 0:42
  And essentially, as the Supreme Court heard opening arguments on Monsanto versus Darnell, a case which could prevent people harmed by pesticides to sue manufacturers, make America Healthy Again proponents gathered near the steps of the building outside for the people versus poison rally.
• 1:05
  And what I love about that event, and I was there covering it, and my guest uh here today was there, the event cut across traditional party political party lines and it essentially highlighted tensions within the Maha movement and federal agriculture policies.
• 1:23
  Um I had Kelly Ryerson known as the glyphosate girl on here, uh, I think it was a few episodes ago.
• 1:30
  And she's also the co-founder of American Regeneration, and she's been an outspoken critic of Monsanto, which is now a subsidiary of Bear.
• 1:39
  She talked about how if or she said if your product is safe, then you don't need immunity.
• 1:45
  And if your business depends on immunity, the problem is not the lawsuits, the problem is the product.
• 1:52
  So uh before introducing my guest to also talk about the case in general, uh a state level jury previously ruled in favor of John Durnell.
• 2:05
  He's a Missouri man who developed non-Hodgkin lymphoma after exposure to Roundup and Roundup, obviously.
• 2:12
  Uh if you're listening to the show, you probably know it's made or it was developed by Monsanto.
• 2:18
  And the jury awarded him 1.25 1.25 million dollars after concluding Monsanto failed to comply with state law requiring a warning about cancer risks.
• 2:31
  So Monsanto argues that because the EPA has not deemed glyphosate to be carcinogenic and has not issued a cancer warning, failure to warn lawsuits allowed under state law or preempted by federal law.
• 2:46
  So in a nutshell, if Monsanto wins the case, thousands of pending lawsuits could be dismissed, and the company will face significant liability if it loses.
• 2:58
  So this is a good segue into uh my guest.
• 3:02
  I'd like to welcome uh Tiffany Ryder, who is a healthcare policy strategist based in DC, but she has a more deeper story than that.
• 3:09
  Uh, welcome, Tiffany.
• 3:11
  Hi, Jeff.
• 3:12
  Thanks so much for having me on.
• 3:13
  It was great, great meeting you yesterday.
• 3:15
  So that's a mouthful that I just said.
• 3:17
  Um, I'm going over the details of uh the article I wrote.
• 3:22
  And that's just one prong.
• 3:24
  They talked about multi-prong about how uh uh Monsanto is attempting to get um legal immunity through the Supreme the Supreme Court case, also provisions in the farm bill and also in state legislatures across the country.
• 3:42
  But before we dive into that, uh so uh our guests know your background.
• 3:48
  I was looking at your website and we talked yesterday at the event.
• 3:52
  Um was looking at your website, and it is pretty impressive.
• 3:57
  You have a fascinating story, if you would uh tell us a little bit about that.
• 4:01
  Yeah, I'm happy, happy to share how I nonlinearly sort of landed where I am.
• 4:07
  But um essentially I started my career um with the Washington Redskins.
• 4:12
  I was an NFL cheerleader and um sort of ended up in the DC network um through that through that perspective.
• 4:22
  And what was you know interesting to me at the time as a young woman going into this performance background is that I didn't realize how much being able to meet and interact, you know, with policymakers and uh eventually hospitals um would go on to affect uh the rest of my life, the rest of my career.
• 4:41
  But it was um through that experience.
• 4:44
  I I ended up at Walter Reed Army Medical Center and you know, really seeing healthcare at its best at the time, and uh and wanted to become a doctor and emergency medicine clinician.
• 4:56
  You know, I wanted to really be in that space helping people.
• 4:59
  And when I finally retired from dance, uh I danced overseas and you know, was looking at okay, how do I how do I transition this into you know a real job?
• 5:10
  Um, I landed in medicine pretty naturally.
• 5:14
  And uh while I was finishing up my studies, COVID came on scene, and um I found myself in the middle of this, you know, what we now know is this completely world-changing perspective changing uh experience.
• 5:31
  And uh what I noticed, I mean, almost immediately having been in Europe and then coming to the US was that you know, things were different than we were told that a lot of times in medicine we're told things are black and white, or you know, this is exactly what we know and how things work.
• 5:49
  And that just wasn't at all true because you know, the whole world looked at health and medicine differently in some ways than we did here in the US.
• 5:58
  And then I started seeing news stories um on COVID that did not resonate with the experience I was having in the emergency room.
• 6:07
  Um, so long story short, you know, the emergency room was not somewhere where I felt I was able to really serve my fellow humans, which is what I was there to do.
• 6:20
  Uh, I did a brief stint in clinical research, thinking that perhaps the reason you know we had uh drugs and and other things that were being brought to the population that you know maybe the the full story wasn't being told was because maybe the people doing that research weren't entirely honest.
• 6:40
  And I thought, well, maybe I could change the world this way.
• 6:44
  And um, and really found that that clinical research, at least in my experience, was just another chapter of uh this institutional capture.
• 6:54
  And um, and I said, well, you know, if the government's not coming to save us, if doctors aren't coming to save us, if the medicine's not coming to save us, then I guess we have to save ourselves.
• 7:00
  Us, if a medicine's not coming to save us, then I guess we have to save ourselves.
• 7:04
  And uh that's how I got into this health policy space and really communicating, um, trying to translate what's going on in DC, what's going on in hospitals for a lay audience?
• 7:04
  And uh that's how I got into this health policy space and really communicating, um, trying to translate what's going on in DC, what's going on in hospitals for a lay audience?
• 7:15
  And so uh, so I guess I'm a writer now.
• 7:15
  And so uh, so I guess I'm a writer now.
• 7:19
  It seems like you're uh you're you're versatile.
• 7:19
  It seems like you're uh you're you're versatile, you have a wide variety of uh passions and interests within the healthcare sector, and it's interesting because I've shared on here where COVID was my wake-up call earlier in my career.
• 7:23
  You have a wide variety of uh passions and interests within the healthcare sector, and it's interesting because.
• 7:34
  I was a reporter for the Dayton and Cincinnati papers, and um based in Southwest Ohio, and I never thought I would get back in full-time media because I was a freelance writer, author, and publicist, and then COVID came along.
• 7:48
  I was a publisher of a community magazine, and then it wasn't adding up what was going on in Ohio, um, all the lockdowns and mask mandates.
• 7:57
  So I became a widely known advocate across Ohio.
• 8:01
  People either loved me or hated me because I was uh advocating against lockdowns and mask mandates and then vaccine mandates, and then I was writing about it, and then but that was my wake-up call.
• 8:13
  Then I uh joined Epic Times about four years ago, and I changed my lifestyle.
• 8:19
  Uh well, last year at this time, I over the last year I've lost like 65 pounds.
• 8:26
  Um cutting out processed foods and sugar, and I still have more uh goals to reach, but um but the Maha lifestyle, it's not just something I write about, it's something I live.
• 8:42
  And it's interesting because uh at the people versus poison rally, it was talked about uh multiple speakers.
• 8:50
  I know Vonnie Hari, one of the organizers said it, and then a few others that it's important to eat healthy, but how can you eat healthy if um like the vegetables we're eating is uh sprayed are sprayed with uh glyphosate.
• 9:07
  So the whole awareness aspect, the education aspect is so important.
• 9:13
  It seems like that's one of your interests.
• 9:15
  Yeah, it absolutely is, and you know this as a as a writer, right?
• 9:19
  It's it seems so straightforward.
• 9:22
  You see that the sky is blue, and then you write that the sky is blue, but that's not actually how it how it works in practice.
• 9:29
  There's a lot of nuance that goes into uh communications and and deciding that you are going to be brave and speak truth, even when it does polarize you and sort of put you into this uh political space, even though you're not trying to be in a political space, like you said in your intro.
• 9:52
  Um advocating for health seems to be bipartisan uh at its core, but um, but speaking truth is not oftentimes, and uh it's it's definitely something that I've leaned into and it's been worth the cost for me.
• 10:07
  Well, while we're talking about that, that's pretty interesting because yesterday or at the people versus poison rally, uh Thomas Massey, who is a Republican, but he's getting a lot of backlash from uh the President Trump.
• 10:23
  Yes.
• 10:24
  Um statistically, if you look at he I checked it because I'm covering the uh Thomas Massey Ed Gallrine primary in Kentucky, and Thomas Massey talks a lot about how he votes Republican about 91% of the time.
• 10:39
  And if you look at congressional voting records, he's telling the truth on that.
• 10:43
  But the nine percent that he doesn't, uh he gets a lot of backlash because uh most of the time it conflicts what uh with what uh president Trump wants.
• 10:54
  And but you had Thomas Massey, who's the a Republican, and uh Shelley Pingry, who's uh Democrat, and they both probably don't agree on a whole lot, but with this topic, they've introduced um some bills to uh kind of offset the glyphosate order.
• 11:14
  Actually, I'll read this from the article in February.
• 11:18
  The president surprised some Maha movement leaders when he issued his executive order, which invoked the Defense Production Act a day before the president signed the executive order, Bair announced that Monsanto submitted a proposal for a 7.2 billion dollar class action settlement.
• 11:36
  And back in 2018, Bayer completed its acquisition of Monsanto for 63 billion dollars, including debt.
• 11:45
  Baer also agreed to a separate 10 billion dollar settlement regarding non-Hodgkin lymphoma claims in 2020, and a little bit about glyphosate for people who aren't aware it's used to kill weeds and dry crops before harvest, and glyphosate tolerant crops account for a significant majority of the corn, soy and cotton acreage on America farms, American farms and the rally itself, and uh we're we'll be talking about this.
• 12:14
  We've kind of touched on it, but it's held at a it was held at a time when there's heightened uh anger in Maha circles over what they consider a three-front campaign by Bear that is seeing immunity through the Supreme Court, pushing liability shields in state legislatures and Congress and gaining the executive order from President Trump to classify glyphosate as net uh essential to national defense.
• 12:40
  So that's another mouthful, but it's important to clarify what glyphosate is and what led to the rally, uh the people versus poison rally.
• 12:51
  And I think um uh vonnie Hari also is uh Zen Honeycutts, who's the founder of um moms across America, they're talking about how warrior moms really are leading the charge, the the pro-maha charge, and and they're more uh effective than like the FDA, the CDC, all those other organizations.
• 13:17
  And what are your thoughts about that as far as this?
• 13:20
  It seems to be a grassroots led movement, and I know part of what you do uh obviously uh especially you describe in your your website healthcare policy.
• 13:31
  That's one of your interests and passions.
• 13:34
  And what are your thoughts about that as far as like the people, the impact that the Vonnie Harris, the Zen Honeycuts, the Kelly Ryerson can have?
• 13:44
  Yeah, I I mean I have a lot of thoughts about this.
• 13:47
  It's like something I think about constantly, but you know, when you look at the incentive structure, when you look at the amount of money that is just floating around DC, whether it's uh you know, from the healthcare lobby or the farm lobby, really, you know.
• 14:00
  Around DC, whether it's uh, you know, from the healthcare lobby or the farm lobby.
• 14:06
  Really, you know, I used to um I knew someone who used to tell this story.
• 14:08
  I used to um I knew someone who used to tell this story.
• 14:11
  I've heard it many versions of it, but you know, it's like someone people kill people over 10,000 life insurance policies, right?
• 14:11
  I've heard it, many versions of it, but you know, it's like someone kill people over $10,000 life insurance policies, right?
• 14:20
  What will people do for millions?
• 14:20
  What will people do for millions?
• 14:23
  What will people do for billions?
• 14:23
  What will people do for billions?
• 14:25
  Like the amount of money that that goes in and out of uh
• 14:25
  Like the amount of money that that goes in and out of uh industry and DC is not minuscule.
• 14:33
  The incentive structure is there to sort of keep things, um, keep things moving, right?
• 14:38
  To reinforce the status quo to reduce the risk for industry and companies.
• 14:45
  And I don't think that's conspiracy theory talk.
• 14:47
  I think that's just uh a reasonable assessment of human behavior and markets.
• 14:54
  Um, so when we talk about a grassroots movement, it's very clear to me that as a politician, I can only do um what my political capital sort of allows me to do.
• 15:10
  Meaning um uh it's very easy to be uh nuanced and sort of shoved into the direction of um whatever's most palatable.
• 15:23
  And where I see the grassroots movement is we need to make it more uncomfortable to not be on the side of the people than industry makes it to not be on the side of industry, right?
• 15:38
  So if Bayer is being being heard by um Senate staff and executive staff, you know, they they are getting their talking points through.
• 15:49
  They are saying things perhaps like look, uh, this could this could cause widespread famine.
• 15:57
  This could cause you know huge increases in how much our food cost.
• 16:02
  We've been reliant on glyphosate and roundup, you know, for so long that this is absolutely essential to our ability to feed our population.
• 16:11
  Do you want to cause, do you want hunger strikes?
• 16:14
  Like, do you want like like people starving in the streets?
• 16:17
  Do you want people unable to afford food?
• 16:19
  Then maybe we should protect our ability to do that.
• 16:23
  And and so, like, I think looking at it from that perspective of our politicians, I don't think are fairly classified into good and evil, right?
• 16:36
  They are hearing a story and acting in ways that are, of course, in their best interest, but they they also have to be able to tell themselves a story of why what they're doing is just and what the grassroots movement does is it says, you know, those talking points that you heard from Big Pharma, those talking points that you heard from Bayer.
• 16:59
  Um, whatever the case may be, here's the other side.
• 17:03
  Here's why the people want X, right?
• 17:08
  Here's why we think this is dangerous for us.
• 17:12
  And we have to have a seat at that table.
• 17:14
  And the only way that we can have a seat at the table where industry is already sitting, is through these movements, is through people speaking up, is through people taking their time and dedicating their lives to nourishing these grassroots movements.
• 17:32
  Yeah, and that sparks uh that's what I love.
• 17:35
  And and before we were on uh uh started the broadcast, uh, and I know you have uh podcasting experience.
• 17:43
  Uh the the fun part of it is the conversations because one topic leads to another.
• 17:49
  And uh what you were just saying there, I want to dive into a little more when we come back from break because it is what you said about the uh you can you can make an impact to a degree in politics, whether it's being uh senator or congressman or at the local levels on your school board, on your uh city council, township trip being a township trustee, but advocacy I've just found from uh being an advocate myself, and then what I do for the Epic Times covering uh politics and issues related to the Make America Healthy Again movement.
• 18:32
  That you can make a massive impact there.
• 18:36
  And when we come back from break, we'll talk a little bit more about that.
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• 21:48
  Welcome back to the Baha Lowdown.
• 21:50
  I'm Jeff Lauderback.
• 21:51
  I'm with Tiffany Ryder, who uh has multiple titles, it seems.
• 21:56
  How do you describe your uh I know you're a healthcare policy strategist?
• 22:00
  Uh, how else do you describe yourself?
• 22:02
  Yeah, it's so funny because I introduced myself.
• 22:04
  I, you know, as a health policy writer, as uh a substacker, you know, like I'll I'll say different things and then and then I'm like, oh yeah, also also emergency medicine clinician by training.
• 22:16
  Oh, also, you know, I do these other things.
• 22:19
  So it is sort of hard to fit in one box, but you know, I I like it that way.
• 22:23
  Yeah, and that's what makes you uh an interesting person to talk to about these these topics.
• 22:29
  And before we explore further what we were talking about before, um tell tell us more about your your background as far as I know you have a health story that seemed to inspire you.
• 22:44
  Yeah, um I you know, like I said, I I sort of fell into this.
• 22:49
  It was not, you know, my dream from childhood, but one of the things that really showed me, I guess the lack of humility in medicine um was was just my own personal health journey.
• 23:03
  I had um as a young woman, I I had kids early and um was was a little a little overweight, and um, and had found myself in the doctor's office, and they said, you know, you've got PCOS, you've got pre-diabetes.
• 23:20
  Um I said, well, what the heck does that mean, right?
• 23:23
  I was 20 years old or something, like very early 20s.
• 23:27
  Uh, and they said, well, you know, it just means that you one day may, you know, develop type two diabetes.
• 23:35
  It's like very normal.
• 23:37
  This is just sort of the progression of things.
• 23:40
  Um, maybe it's genetics, we don't really know.
• 23:42
  And but, you know, we'll monitor you, you come back, and and once it gets to that point, you know, we'll give you, we'll give you metformin, we can even give you insulin.
• 23:50
  Like, you know, we have medications to manage all of this and you know, enjoy.
• 23:55
  And um, and it wasn't until which is ridiculous, right?
• 24:01
  Oh, yeah, go ahead.
• 24:02
  Yeah, but it wasn't until like I um, you know, I was I was pursuing something completely different, and I decided, oh, uh, you know, I really want to be an NFL cheerleader, how do I do that?
• 24:13
  And I had gone and I I auditioned for the Redskins and then for the Eagles and uh and then for the Ravens, and I didn't make it past the first cut for any of those things that first year.
• 24:24
  And I had a friend that I went to and I said, you know, I just don't know what to do.
• 24:27
  I worked really hard, didn't go so well.
• 24:30
  Like, what do you what do you think I can do to prepare for next year?
• 24:34
  And she was uh she was in her mid-40s, and and she looked at me and she said, you know, sweetie, you're beautiful, but if you want to ever do these things, you're gonna have to lose like 20 or 30 pounds.
• 24:47
  And um, and at the time, I you know, I I didn't feel like I was overweight at all.
• 24:52
  I didn't think there was any issue.
• 24:53
  No one had ever, you know, said anything like that to me, but I said, Well, I do kind of want this thing.
• 24:58
  I guess I guess I'll do that.
• 25:00
  Like, can you help me?
• 25:00
  Can you tell me how to do that?
• 25:02
  And uh, you know, she basically was like, early maha, you know, eat eat some uh eat some healthy food, stop eating stuff that comes in plastic and uh maybe lift some heavy things and then put them back down and go outside.
• 25:15
  Said, okay.
• 25:16
  So anyway, long story short, I ended up losing the weight and uh and uh went into my doctor the next year because you know, I was a good little girl and was just doing the things that I was told.
• 25:28
  Um, went in for my physical, and they were like, oh, look, you don't have you know, you're not pre-diabetic anymore.
• 25:34
  You don't have PCOS, like all of these issues just sort of melted away.
• 25:39
  And um, and you know, I think that was the first time that I realized that medicine like didn't know what the heck they were talking about.
• 25:47
  This was before you could you could say that uh, you know, diabetes could be reversed.
• 25:54
  Type two diabetes could be reversed with lifestyle choices, um, which now is is an acceptable thing to say, but at the time was taboo and controversial.
• 26:02
  Um it really just just set me up for the experiences I had in Europe where they um treat patient care and lifestyle completely differently than the way that we do here, and um, and other things.
• 26:18
  Uh, it just made me question.
• 26:19
  And I think that was an essential part of that questioning process.
• 26:23
  And that's interesting what you're talking about.
• 26:26
  Um as far as your your personal story.
• 26:30
  I think that's a great uh story of resilience because you you you were passionate about something, you wanted something, and uh and you were able to you you went through some rejection and uh you didn't let that stop you and and you use the the um yeah, you took the advice you got and implemented it and kind of like what I've done because I've been athletic most of my life.
• 26:55
  I'm in my 50s now, but for a long time, you know I you know I played a lot of I would play basketball and tennis regularly.
• 27:01
  I I'm a little over 6'4, and most of the time I was where I am now, like between 215 and 220, but I got up to as much as 280 uh last year.
• 27:11
  I was uh last year this time I was there and cut out the process foods and cut out minimize the sugar and incorporated like uh intermittent fasting.
• 27:22
  And I know RFT Jr.
• 27:24
  has recently come out talking about carn eating carnivore and fermented foods.
• 27:28
  I've done a lot of that.
• 27:29
  Um really changing my lifestyle, and I still have my goals to reach, but uh, and I sometimes lose some momentum, but but it's interesting when you implement that and have that mindset and that becomes you what you're able to accomplish.
• 27:48
  Yes.
• 27:48
  And institutionally, I feel like, you know, even as a white coat, right?
• 27:53
  I feel like white codes have done us a disservice by by pretending that we know things that we don't actually know, right?
• 28:00
  We don't actually know, right?
• 28:01
  Like, I can't tell you if uh strict carnivore and sauerkraut, which is you know what RFK was talking about at that event, is better for you personally than you know carnivore light, right?
• 28:01
  Like I can't tell you if uh strict carnivore and sauerkraut, which is you know what RFK was talking about at that event, is better for you personally than you know carnivore light, right?
• 28:18
  That has like some greens and vegetables, but you know, mixed in or what have you.
• 28:18
  That has like some greens and vegetables, but you know, mixed in or what have you.
• 28:21
  It's just you know, we don't, there are a lot of things in medicine about health that we just don't know.
• 28:21
  It's just you know, we don't, there are a lot of things in medicine about health that we just don't know.
• 28:28
  And there are a lot of things that.
• 28:28
  And there are a lot of things that we do know, and we we pretend not to know because it's uncomfortable, right?
• 28:36
  Every white coat I would I would say knows that ultra-processed food is not good for you.
• 28:44
  To what degree?
• 28:45
  I don't know, right?
• 28:46
  How much you can get away with, I can't say, but I know that you eating a piece of you know, something out of a out of a plastic is not the same as eating fresh fresh food.
• 28:58
  And yet we just we don't say anything about it.
• 29:02
  We don't push those things.
• 29:03
  We argue against a CMS memo that says hospitals should serve real food.
• 29:07
  There are definitely issues here, and I I don't think the medical establishment is completely blameless.
• 29:16
  And we're gonna talk a little bit about corporate capture too.
• 29:19
  Um at the uh People versus Poison Rally, uh, well, a little bit about Vonnie Hari.
• 29:25
  She's a New York Times bestselling author, founder of the food babe uh blog and website, and the food company Truvani.
• 29:35
  And she's one of the most visible clean food advocates online, and she organized the rally and described it as a line in the sand against pesticide corporations and politicians who shield them from accountability.
• 29:49
  And this is an interesting quote that she said at the rally.
• 29:52
  She said we wouldn't be here right now if President Trump didn't sign the executive order.
• 29:57
  We wouldn't be here right now if they weren't inside the building arguing on Monsanto's behalf.
• 30:04
  We wouldn't be here right now if Monsanto Bear wasn't pushing legal shields through every branch of government, including the farm bill in Congress.
• 30:13
  They made this their moment, now we make it ours, which uh, you know, Vonnie Hari, uh it's hard not to uh get fired up when you hear her.
• 30:23
  Yeah, for sure.
• 30:25
  Well, what are your thoughts about that as far as uh I know when I was covering the RFK junior presidential campaign, I traveled around the country.
• 30:33
  Uh I think uh I remember it being like uh 30 states.
• 30:37
  I went to town halls and events.
• 30:39
  I felt like I could deliver his speech for him, but uh, because I heard it so often, but he often talked about it consistently talked about how he wanted to address what he calls the corporate capture of government agencies, and now in his role at HHS, he's um focusing on uh the corporate capture of agencies within HHS.
• 31:05
  And I know um some people uh within the Maha movement are frustrated that he hasn't been able to do more, but it seems like he has a juggling act uh to do.
• 31:17
  But uh in general, what I know that's an interest of yours, the corporate capture of government agencies.
• 31:24
  Uh, what are your thoughts about that and how it relates to this topic about glyphosate?
• 31:32
  I think everything that we talk about really has to come back to what you just said about RFK Jr.
• 31:38
  It's like, do I want to get, do I want to go all in and get fired today?
• 31:45
  Or can I, you know, can I do the best I can to move these reforms in as quickly as possible while not compromising my ability to do good in the future?
• 31:59
  And I think that's what you know, most politicians are weighing.
• 32:03
  I think that's what a lot of our regulatory agency staff and leaders are weighing.
• 32:08
  But what we saw yesterday, I think is a result of the way that the Maha movement was born.
• 32:16
  We we really the Maha movement was born out of COVID.
• 32:22
  Like we had watched, we had all watched regulators make these sweeping health decisions and and you know, tell us to trust this, trust the science, don't trust your own eyes, like believe what we're saying.
• 32:35
  And it was pretty obvious that the system was not set up to protect us.
• 32:41
  And this core question, and I'm not saying that it's the core question of the the Supreme Court case itself.
• 32:50
  Um, but the core question that all of these, this three-pronged approach are really attacking is you know, do the people have a voice?
• 32:59
  Do we have a say in what our bodies are exposed to and how our government is run and the power that institutions have?
• 33:09
  And yesterday, you know, I heard a lot of people talking about the case itself.
• 33:14
  Thomas Massey um was talking about the Seventh Amendment question at the heart of this, the right to a jury.
• 33:22
  And, you know, it really seems like the core question, the core concern is that you know, we see Bayer arguing that lawsuits from harmed farmers should be blocked.
• 33:34
  And when you look at that in the context of, you know, past things at the FDA, let's go before COVID.
• 33:40
  Let's look at things like um, I don't know, like biox uh or thalidomide, right?
• 33:46
  FDA approved Viox, they approved thalitamide.
• 33:50
  Um Viox was that um anti-inflammatory drug that was later pulled off the market because we found that it was killing people.
• 33:59
  Um and thalidomide was the medication that pregnant women were given for nausea that was pulled off the market because it was harming babies.
• 34:08
  And you look at at things like that, and you say, ask yourself, well, the FDA said those things were safe.
• 34:14
  Does that mean that those patients shouldn't have been able to sue for harm?
• 34:17
  And if they hadn't been able to sue for harm, how long would it have taken us to you know get past the blocking of the legacy media and the um, you know, just the the silencing essentially of that message to realize that it was harming people?
• 34:34
  And I think that this is um this is where the Maha movement is.
• 34:39
  This is where a lot of people's concerns are, is that we already know that trusting the regulatory agencies to take care of us, uh, pretending that they are endowed with some God-given knowledge that that the rest of us don't have to determine what is truth is uh is a dangerous, dangerous you know, place to be.
• 35:00
  And and we're rejecting that.
• 35:00
  And we're rejecting that.
• 35:02
  I think that is what this outcry is about.
• 35:02
  I think that is what this outcry is about.
• 35:06
  And you mentioned the farmers.
• 35:06
  And you mentioned the farmers, uh that's an interesting point as well, because uh there is a uh Terry McCall who uh she gave a speech at the People versus Poison Rally.
• 35:08
  Uh that's an interesting point as well, because uh there is a uh Terry McCall who uh she gave a speech at the People versus Poison Rally.
• 35:20
  She her husband uh was a farmer and was exposed to glyphosate for over 40 years and he died of cancer.
• 35:20
  She her husband uh was a farmer and was exposed to glyphosate for over 40 years and he died of cancer.
• 35:27
  Um Angela Huff.
• 35:27
  Um Angela Huffman, she's a regenerative farmer in Northwest Ohio.
• 35:33
  I'm gonna have her on the show here in the near future and be uh going up there to write a story on her.
• 35:38
  She's the president of the advocacy group farm action.
• 35:41
  She spoke and talked about um well, here's one of her quotes when we talk about exposure and risk.
• 35:50
  We're talking about what farmers, farm workers, and rural families are living with every day across the biggest corn producing states, younger adults are seeing higher cancer rates than the rest of the country, and that should get our attention.
• 36:03
  And she attributed the problem to a handful of corporations that control the seeds, the chemicals and shape how farmers are expected to operate.
• 36:12
  And she ended by saying farmers don't have a lot of choices.
• 36:16
  A handful of companies control the seeds, the chemicals are designed to work with those seeds.
• 36:21
  They really control how farmers operate, and now they want to take away farmers.
• 36:27
  Which um, I mean, we talk often about how it impacts us.
• 36:32
  And I know multiple speakers talked about how really, if you don't, if if you don't really focus on it, you can't get away from glyphosate unless you have true organic uh foods.
• 36:47
  But you go to a park and uh you know, your kids roll around in the grass.
• 36:53
  There's uh chances are that was sprayed with Roundup, and it's just hard to get away from it as consumers, but as farmers, I think uh some people uh talk about how the critics of uh or the proponents of glyphosate uh talk about how it's really uh a war against farmers if it's minimized or taken away.
• 37:20
  But uh it's the farmers that are which Angela Huffman's pointing out, the farmers are the ones being protected as well.
• 37:28
  And I know there's uh a push, RFK Jr.
• 37:31
  talk calls it an off ramp uh for regenerative farming and alternatives to glyphosate and uh so regarding the farmers.
• 37:43
  Uh, what are your thoughts about that as far as we talk a lot about the consumers, but uh what are your thoughts about what the farmers face?
• 37:52
  Yeah, I I mean medically, and maybe this is part of being jaded from having you know practiced medicine and seen a lot of terrible things.
• 38:01
  But when I look at glyphosate for as a consumer, I think, okay, you know, certainly there's increased risk.
• 38:08
  Do I don't want to be eating chemicals?
• 38:10
  I don't want my kids eating chemicals.
• 38:12
  Like I'm not excited about glyphosate in my food as a consumer.
• 38:16
  But when I look at you know, exposure levels and who is actually being harmed by these policies, it is a hundred percent across the board, undeniably the farmers, right?
• 38:29
  It is the it is the people who are it willingly exposing themselves to incredibly high risk, you know, in comparison to the general public in order to support their families and to work outside and to make food for us.
• 38:51
  And it it feels almost it really feels predatory, honestly.
• 38:57
  I don't think that anyone goes into farming, and maybe some people do, okay.
• 39:02
  I I don't think that most people um imagine themselves growing up and um and growing food and being you know some some arm of industry and just a um a pawn, really.
• 39:23
  I and I hate to say it that way, but I think that this is what we're turning these policies turn pharmacy or turn farmers into just pawns of industry, disposable pawns of industry.
• 39:34
  And I think we've seen that across industries, we've seen that in healthcare doctors, clinicians, nurses, same thing, right?
• 39:42
  Like we we don't care if you're harmed in the uh in the process of of doing this service that you believe you're doing for the world.
• 39:52
  We don't care if you harm other people.
• 39:55
  Industry says we're doing it this way, and this is what we demand, and any any dissent will be squashed, and um, and we'll we'll address it from the court system from the legislators.
• 40:07
  We will do what needs to be done to uh to really get our products through.
• 40:16
  And I think that uh that is a it's an abomination, and it's something that of course we should be speaking out against.
• 40:24
  Of course, we should be um organizing and supporting a grassroots movement that is bringing awareness to that.
• 40:33
  We're heading into our final segment.
• 40:35
  We'll be back in a few moments.
• 40:37
  You're listening to the Maha Lowdown on the America Out Loud Network.
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• 43:18
  Welcome back to the Maha Lowdown.
• 43:21
  I'm Jeff Lauterbach.
• 43:22
  I'm with Tiffany Ryder today.
• 43:25
  We were both at the people versus poison rally.
• 43:38
  Just met all sorts of uh interesting people.
• 43:42
  And uh Tiffany, you're one of them.
• 43:43
  I think your story's really interesting, and um glad to glad you're sharing it today.
• 43:50
  Um what what are your thoughts?
• 43:52
  What are your main takes from the rally?
• 43:54
  We've touched on a little bit of that of that, but what really struck you is as powerful from the rally.
• 44:02
  You know, like you mentioned in your intro, just the bipartisan nature of Maha is something that I just I keep seeing coming up over and over and over again.
• 44:11
  And uh, and that was definitely true yesterday, right?
• 44:15
  I I never thought I would see myself in such a mixed crowd.
• 44:20
  Um, but people care about their kids' health, people care about other people, people want to eat healthy food that produces healthy humans, and um I think that there is an element of magnetism almost with truth, right?
• 44:42
  When when true things are being said, when there is uh just common sense um screaming, people gravitate towards that.
• 44:52
  And I I feel like that is essentially what we're seeing in this in the glyphosate discussions and and in this maha fight about food because you can't you like you can't tell Americans to eat real food and also you know, speak out protecting chemicals sprayed on that food from legal accountability without some sort of explanation as to why that makes sense, right?
• 45:20
  And you know, I alluded to it earlier, and I'm not defending it, but I'm just saying that you know, when the EO came out, it's like, okay, there is an argument like RFK isn't wrong that we really do need an off ramp for farmers.
• 45:35
  If I only know how to grow food using, you know, this particular set of tools, of course I need to know what the other tools are.
• 45:45
  Like, how do I do it without the harmful things?
• 45:48
  And and I think that that nuance is something that people on both sides of the aisle can appreciate that we can't um change everything all in one day, but we can make progress towards the world that we want to live in.
• 46:05
  And what I feel like yesterday was was an assertion of hey, everyone who's paying attention, and those of you who aren't paying attention, right?
• 46:16
  Like, it's okay, and we accept that things are not the way that we want them right now, but we need to know what future we're building towards.
• 46:26
  And and I think you know, you also mentioned, you know, someone was saying, uh, remind me who it was, but they were saying, you know, if a product is safe, why does it need legal immunity?
• 46:37
  Who was that?
• 46:38
  Uh it was a few.
• 46:40
  I think uh I know Kelly Ryerson said it, and I know that he said it.
• 46:43
  And I believe that Alex Clark, who has the culture apothecary podcast, uh, I believe she said it.
• 46:50
  That was a that was really one of the common themes at the event.
• 46:54
  It really was.
• 46:55
  And I just think it it really summarizes it so well.
• 46:58
  And you know, if you're following um what's going on on some of the vaccine policy discussions, it's something that Aaron Seary has in his very lawyerly way, pointed it out.
• 47:10
  He's pretty remarkable.
• 47:11
  He's pretty remarkable.
• 47:12
  He's a great speaker.
• 47:14
  And you know, and he says this, and it's just it's one of those things.
• 47:18
  It's one of those truths that it doesn't matter what you believe or know or where you stand in politics or anything else, when someone says that, you say, Oh, well, yeah, actually, that makes a lot of sense.
• 47:29
  Like, if something is safe, why do I need to be protected from claims against safety?
• 47:36
  I thought it was interesting, and I've I've noticed this from um covering the RFK presidential campaign.
• 47:44
  And you know, when you're a reporter, you separate your personal feel, or at least you should.
• 47:48
  You try to.
• 47:49
  With the epic times, we do because uh we believe in that, but unfortunately, a lot of the mainstream media doesn't.
• 47:56
  But when you're covering politics, people should know how you feel.
• 48:02
  Like I uh for a stretch I covered the Biden administration and I had friends because you know, I have a following on social media, and I friends would say, Are you a liberal now?
• 48:11
  You're you know, because I was just riding just reporting news without opinion, and it didn't interject uh my feelings in it.
• 48:22
  And uh and I I find that uh what's interesting about the Maha movement and at the people versus poison rally, it really illustrated that.
• 48:31
  You had Thomas Massey, who is I mean, personally, I'm a conservative independent.
• 48:36
  That's how I classify myself.
• 48:37
  And uh I think that's really what uh Thomas Massey is more conservative independent or a libertarian, but you had him and you had Shelly Pingry, who is a Democrat representative from Maine who probably doesn't agree with Thomas Massey on a whole lot, but uh Corey Booker, who's a Democratic senator from New Jersey, was there.
• 49:00
  Democratic senator from New Jersey was there.
• 49:04
  He spoke and uh he was a um uh RFK junior advocate during the presidential campaign.
• 49:04
  He spoke, and he was a um RFK junior advocate during the presidential campaign.
• 49:12
  He probably doesn't agree a whole lot with um with uh Thomas Massey on a lot of issues, but or conservatives on a lot of issues, but that's why I found interesting you had people from all political persuasions there, and and I think that it really defines the.
• 49:12
  He probably doesn't agree a whole lot with um with uh Thomas Massey on a lot of issues, but or conservatives on a lot of issues, but that's why I found interesting you had people from all political persuasions there, and and I think that it really defines the there's exceptions because it seems like um the left doesn't really believe in the uh what RFK Jr.
• 49:39
  espouses about vaccine safety and efficacy, but for the most part, it seems like uh it's a bipartisan movement, and that was really on display at the people versus poison rally.
• 49:50
  Yeah, I I I couldn't agree more, really.
• 49:53
  Um it's funny you asked what other titles I go by earlier, and a lot of people um call me a journalist just because I I write articles, and um, and I'm always quick to correct them because I said, no, no, no, journalism is supposed to be unbiased, not if you're a columnist, you're allowed to have your opinion.
• 50:13
  Exactly.
• 50:14
  I was like, I essentially write call yourself a column.
• 50:19
  Yes, yes, it's true, it's so true.
• 50:23
  Um, you know, because what we really do need, and I I subscribe to the Epic Times.
• 50:27
  I uh I love it, and I don't love it because you guys agree with me.
• 50:33
  I love it because it seems to be one of the very few publications that is uh really in search of truth.
• 50:43
  And and I think that this is essentially where journalism and communications are moving because COVID really, for all of its faults, for all of the horrible, horrible things that happened during COVID that were um perspective changing and terrifying as a human.
• 51:00
  Uh, the good news, the silver lining seems to be that people realize that they can't just blindly trust uh authorities, right?
• 51:09
  Authorities and media, authorities and government, um, their doctor, like you you really do have to take a look around, um, convene with God and say, how do I find truth?
• 51:23
  How do I educate myself?
• 51:25
  How do I protect myself and my family?
• 51:28
  And um, and that's not that's not crazy, that's not conspiracy theory talk.
• 51:34
  That's just part of being accountable and and being responsible for your decisions.
• 51:41
  And and I see people moving towards that, and I I think the rally was a great um example of that.
• 51:48
  It was it was evidence that people have had enough, even people who dearly love Bobby Kennedy and uh and perhaps supported Trump are saying, okay, we get it, but also this is really important to us, and this is the truth that we see, and this is what we'd like addressed.
• 52:07
  And and I think that's refreshing and exactly how politics should work.
• 52:12
  And right now, I think it's interesting because and and I've written about this and talked about it on social media, and and that's when sometimes I get backlash from my conservative friends on how I I call it obviously you have Trump derangement syndrome, which is a real thing where people who and it's mostly people on the left who anything Trump does, they just despise and complain about.
• 52:41
  And if uh Barack Obama did it, they would applaud it.
• 52:45
  But and then the on the opposite side, I have I call it Trump delusional syndrome.
• 52:50
  So another TDS acronym where people say people anything that Trump does, you know, they they fully believe in a few dare say questioning it, you're you're a leftist, or you're uh you're you're not a uh conservative.
• 53:09
  And I I think uh it's interesting because I think I think you're right.
• 53:14
  COVID and we talked about it earlier.
• 53:15
  COVID was what was my wake-up call?
• 53:17
  It was a wake-up call for a lot of people.
• 53:19
  Yes, and critical thought is so missing now.
• 53:24
  And um when you're a columnist, you can talk about that.
• 53:28
  Um like uh I think most people there, well, there uh there are probably a lot of uh some people who don't support Trump, but many people there at the people versus poison rally.
• 53:40
  I would surmise that uh overall they like what uh Trump stands for, but they do are concerned about the corporate capture of government agencies and how um the Trump administration is favoring, seems to be favoring uh Monsanto, Bear Monsanto, and it is important to uh address that and speak out about it, and that doesn't mean you're uh not a conservative, or it doesn't mean you're not for the president.
• 54:13
  It just means I mean it's it goes back to critical thought, and I think um that that's what the Maha uh movement really stands for.
• 54:23
  Absolutely, and you know, like I I give a lot of presentations to patient advocacy groups, uh really just talking to normal people about like, well, how do I know what questions to ask my doctor?
• 54:36
  How do I know if you know my surgeon is good?
• 54:40
  Like, I don't know anything about medicine, I didn't go to medical school, like how can I ever win?
• 54:46
  And I think that answer is exactly like what we're talking about here.
• 54:52
  It's like it's never a hundred percent, right?
• 54:55
  If you find that you agree with 100% of everything that someone does, you should question that.
• 55:05
  Why?
• 55:05
  Why?
• 55:06
  Like, why do you feel that way?
• 55:07
  If you hate 100% of you know something that everyone does, that's sort of a red flag to reevaluate and say, like, am I being honest?
• 55:15
  Am I looking at this clearly?
• 55:16
  And I think it gets true in medicine.
• 55:18
  If your doctor is like, oh, you should totally do this, there's zero risk, and there's a hundred percent upside.
• 55:24
  Come on, right?
• 55:25
  Like, is that real?
• 55:26
  Yeah.
• 55:30
  Exactly.
• 55:31
  And I think that's totally true here.
• 55:33
  I think that I can say um, I just think that the Maha movement is a generational opportunity, and it is amazing.
• 55:43
  And I love uh what Bobby Kennedy and President Trump have brought to that space, like had the discussions they have opened up, the Overton window that has moved.
• 55:54
  I can absolutely say that, and also say, what's going on here?
• 55:59
  What's going on here with this uh with this glyphosate?
• 56:00
  Here with this uh with this glyphosate.
• 56:02
  There's either something I I desperately like don't understand and need to understand better, like there's a huge chunk of missing knowledge, or um, or maybe I disagree with some pieces of this policy, and here's why.
• 56:02
  There's either something I I desperately like don't understand and need to understand better, like there's a huge chunk of missing knowledge, or um, or maybe I disagree with some pieces of this policy, and here's why.
• 56:17
  And I think that's okay, and it should be okay.
• 56:17
  And I think that's okay, and it should be okay.
• 56:20
  And um, and that that I agree with you.
• 56:20
  And um, and that that I agree with you.
• 56:23
  That's what I saw happening at that rally.
• 56:23
  That's what I saw happening at that rally.
• 56:26
  Well, we've reached the end of our time.
• 56:26
  Well, we've reached the end of our time.
• 56:28
  Uh Tiffany.
• 56:28
  Uh Tiffany Ryder, uh appreciate you joining us.
• 56:32
  And people can find you on your website, I believe it's TiffanyRider.com.
• 56:36
  Yeah, or I write at signal and noise.online.
• 56:40
  So it's uh it's it's where I put all of my musings on health policy, and I try to do a good job translating stuff there for people so you don't have to quit your full-time job.
• 56:49
  Well, thank you for joining us, and um I'll I'll have you back on uh again.
• 56:54
  Thanks so much, Jeff.
• 56:56
  I really appreciated the conversation.
• 56:58
  I'm Jeff Lauderbach, and that's the Mahalo Down.