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An Unlikely Affair: Epstein Survivor Marina Lacerda Connects and Bonds with Lala and Ambyr · Untraditionally Lala

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Speaker 1: This episode contains discussion of sexual abuse, sex trafficking, and
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Speaker 1: allegations involving miners and connection with Jeffrey Epstein. Listener discretion
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Speaker 1: is strongly advised as some content may be disturbing or triggering.
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Speaker 2: Please take care while listening.
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Speaker 1: Hi, Amber Hilala, Welcome to An Unlikely Affair.
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Speaker 3: Hello everybody, Welcome back to another episode of An Unlikely Affair.
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Speaker 3: Hi Lala, Hi babe. How are we? We are doing dandy?
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Speaker 3: This fine?
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Speaker 2: What is today?
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Speaker 4: Monday?
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Speaker 2: Tuesday? I don't even know what day it is. The
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Speaker 2: day is just run together.
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Speaker 1: I have been thinking about this interview that we have
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Speaker 1: today NonStop, and you put it so perfectly, and obviously
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Speaker 1: I won't share exactly what you said, but today we
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Speaker 1: have on an Epstein survivor, Marina Lacerda, and I said,
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Speaker 1: you know, I want to create an environment for her
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Speaker 1: where she feels and heard and I am just feeling
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Speaker 1: the pressure. And you saying, you know, it's not about
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Speaker 1: it's not about you. Imagine going through what they've been
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Speaker 1: through and not being able to talk about it, and
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Speaker 1: then you're finally able to talk about it, how would
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Speaker 1: you feel? And I'm like, I feel amazing let's fucking go,
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Speaker 1: let's get her on.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think for me, you know, conversations like
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Speaker 3: this really matter because they remind us that behind every file,
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Speaker 3: every headline, every news story, every tabloid, there's a human being.
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Speaker 3: And these women that had to deal with this, men
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Speaker 3: and women, they deserve dignity, right And for me, I
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Speaker 3: deeply care about women, and I care about them being
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Speaker 3: able to tell their stories and being able to hold
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Speaker 3: space for them to tell their truth.
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Speaker 1: So this is.
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Speaker 3: So freeing, I feel like for these women, and I'm
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Speaker 3: so excited to have her on.
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Speaker 2: So I am too. Let's get her here. Hi. Oh
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Speaker 2: my god, we're so good.
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Speaker 1: I don't know if the word excited is the right word,
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Speaker 1: but I am very much looking forward to having you
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Speaker 1: on today. I find you incredibly inspiring and I just
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Speaker 1: I want to know what you went through and all
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Speaker 1: of the things I amber brought this up today. I
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Speaker 1: cannot imagine not being able to talk about your experience
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Speaker 1: and then you're finally able to. I just can't imagine
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Speaker 1: what that feeling is like.
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Speaker 2: What is that like?
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Speaker 4: I feel like it's a great feeling. It took a
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Speaker 4: while for me to break my silence, right so I
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Speaker 4: feel like all the other survivors who have been doing
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Speaker 4: this for a very long time, I think for them
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Speaker 4: it's you know, a little bit more emotional because they
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Speaker 4: have been doing this for a very very long time.
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Speaker 4: And after I broke my silence in September, I really
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Speaker 4: have to say, like everyone has been reaching out to
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Speaker 4: hear my story. So I've been very grateful and thankful
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Speaker 4: for that, you know, So it hasn't you know, it's
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Speaker 4: like Hailey Robinson says to me, like change doesn't happen overnight,
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Speaker 4: but it's been so quick for me to spread my
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Speaker 4: story and to bring awareness and to uplift women to
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Speaker 4: always use their voice and never to stay silent, to
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Speaker 4: stay silent. So I think I've been actually very you know,
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Speaker 4: I've been very grateful, I have to say, so a
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Speaker 4: little bit different for me, a little bit different for.
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Speaker 3: Me, thank you so much for your vulnerability, because I
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Speaker 3: know at the same time it's you know.
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Speaker 2: Your experience has a lot of people can't understand it.
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Speaker 3: Right, There's only probably a very small group of women
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Speaker 3: which are the survivors who've been able to be vulnerable
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Speaker 3: and not times you guys have gone through probably so
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Speaker 3: much healing behind the scenes that the world doesn't know about.
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Speaker 3: Where would you say that you are now do you
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Speaker 3: find that this process has been even more healing for you?
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Speaker 4: You know, I think, like what you said, everyone's healing
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Speaker 4: process is definitely different, you know. And I think my
4:00
Speaker 4: healing process was really focused on my mother. I think
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Speaker 4: she really lacked and you know, didn't take responsibility of
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Speaker 4: being a mother. And I think that's where it went wrong.
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Speaker 4: So I really had to heal and accept that this
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Speaker 4: is the mother I have and not only is she
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Speaker 4: my mom, but she's also human, right, And that's how
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Speaker 4: we have to look at people first, because people are
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Speaker 4: always like, well, she's your mom, she has like she
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Speaker 4: loves you, she's there for you, and not all moms
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Speaker 4: are like that, unfortunately. To say, you know, it's something
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Speaker 4: that I always say. It's like we take everything in life.
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Speaker 4: We have a test. We have a test to pass school,
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Speaker 4: we have a test to become doctors, we have a
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Speaker 4: test to drive a car, But there is no test
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Speaker 4: out there to be a mother. And it's not to
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Speaker 4: say that we need to have a test to be
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Speaker 4: a mother. It's more are you capable to be because
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Speaker 4: anyone can pop out a baby anytime, right, Like most
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Speaker 4: women are fertile, they're able to do that. But are
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Speaker 4: you capable to have those mothers duties and to have
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Speaker 4: that responsibility. That's something that we need to start questioning,
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Speaker 4: you know, all women, if they are capable of doing
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Speaker 4: that and if they really want that in life. And
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Speaker 4: I think that my healing process really had to start
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Speaker 4: with my mom. I was like trying to heal through
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Speaker 4: my stepfather's abuse, at Jeffrey Epstein's abuse and many other
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Speaker 4: men that abused me. But you know, I really realized
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Speaker 4: that in the beginning. If my mom had set boundaries
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Speaker 4: and limits for me and told me, hey, don't do that,
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Speaker 4: I would have never done it. You know.
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Speaker 1: So you mentioned the abuse from your stepfather. When did
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Speaker 1: he come into the picture? Because I know that you
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Speaker 1: were recruited by Epstein when you were just fourteen years old.
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Speaker 1: So I want you to if you feel comfortable by
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Speaker 1: the way anything I ask, If you're like not happening,
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Speaker 1: I'm so not offended.
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Speaker 2: I'll move on. But how did that come to be? Where?
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Speaker 2: Where were you? How did you meet.
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Speaker 1: Epstein at fourteen? And do you a tribute you know,
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Speaker 1: falling into his grips, I guess because of the abuse
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Speaker 1: that you experienced.
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Speaker 4: Well. I was born in Brazil and my mother first
6:15
Speaker 4: came to New York when I was at the age
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Speaker 4: of seven. She left me behind for a year in Brazil.
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Speaker 4: When she left me that whole year behind, she met
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Speaker 4: my stepfather, which was her boyfriend. And when I arrived
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Speaker 4: to New York, I did not know she had a boyfriend.
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Speaker 4: It was kind of new to me. And within a
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Speaker 4: couple months he started to put on porn on the TV.
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Speaker 4: My mother would work nights. He had a crazy schedule,
6:37
Speaker 4: so he would be in and out because he was
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Speaker 4: like a cab driver or a private driver. So he
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Speaker 4: would lay me on his lap and he would put
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Speaker 4: on porn and he would cover my face with a
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Speaker 4: cover and I started to peek under to see, like
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Speaker 4: what was happening. Just being eight years old and not
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Speaker 4: understanding why my face was being covered while the TV
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Speaker 4: was on was really you know, I was wondering why,
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Speaker 4: you know, And after a while he just started to
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Speaker 4: reenact what was happening to the porn to me, and
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Speaker 4: it went on for such a long time. My mom,
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Speaker 4: you know, caught us. You know, he was like moving
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Speaker 4: me around or doing something sexual in the bed when
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Speaker 4: I was ten and a half and my mother caught us,
7:18
Speaker 4: and I didn't know that it was wrong, and so
7:21
Speaker 4: she explained it to me. She got into a fight
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Speaker 4: with him, and she basically told me like, hey, that's
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Speaker 4: never going to happen again. I'm so sorry that is
7:27
Speaker 4: happening to me. And she finally explained to me, like
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Speaker 4: what was going on, and I was completely confused because
7:34
Speaker 4: I did not know that I was doing anything wrong.
7:38
Speaker 4: And moving forward, I thought that it was going to
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Speaker 4: be over, but it just became a cycle where my
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Speaker 4: stepfather would abuse me again and I would tell her
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Speaker 4: and he would continue, and I would tell her and
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Speaker 4: he would continue, and then he got to the point
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Speaker 4: where he started to physically abuse me because I started
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Speaker 4: to tell on her to tell on him, and then
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Speaker 4: I just stopped telling her, and then I started to
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Speaker 4: argue with her, like why the hell are we still
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Speaker 4: in this house And I'm like eleven years old, like
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Speaker 4: I should not be talking to my mom like that,
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Speaker 4: And my mom would say to me, well, we are immigrants.
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Speaker 4: We cannot call the police. We are very scared. I
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Speaker 4: don't know if I can take care of you and
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Speaker 4: your sister. She ended up having my sister at that
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Speaker 4: time with my stepfather, and it just became a complete mess.
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Speaker 4: And when I finally went to the police, because we
8:24
Speaker 4: had a roommate in that house, we had a four
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Speaker 4: bedroom and we rented out the other two rooms, and
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Speaker 4: I had a roommate and my stepfather not only had
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Speaker 4: been sexually abusing my friends that would come over. So
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Speaker 4: I lost all my friends. I had no more friends
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Speaker 4: because they would run back to their parents and their
8:39
Speaker 4: parents would be like, well, you can no longer go there.
8:41
Speaker 4: And sometimes to day I wonder, I'm like, why did
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Speaker 4: these parents ever say anything? Like why did my neighbor
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Speaker 4: downstairs who knew exactly what was happening. Why didn't my
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Speaker 4: best friend that I was around the corner when I
8:51
Speaker 4: used to run to her house her parents knew about it.
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Speaker 4: Nobody ever said anything. And till today, I'm just so baffled, because, like,
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Speaker 4: if my daughter came home and said anything about any
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Speaker 4: of her friends, I would immediately ask questions and I
9:04
Speaker 4: would tell the school. So this girl comes up to me,
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Speaker 4: who's the roommate, says, hey, listen, your stepfather has been,
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Speaker 4: you know, also doing the same things that he's doing
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Speaker 4: to you, he's doing to me. Let's go to the police.
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Speaker 4: I was twelve years old, and I literally did not
9:18
Speaker 4: think about anything like immigration, my mom not getting a job.
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Speaker 4: I just jumped up and went to the police. And
9:25
Speaker 4: when I went to the police, I was questioned so
9:27
Speaker 4: hard that it made me. It was so intimidating to
9:31
Speaker 4: the point where I had to demon like, you know,
9:34
Speaker 4: I had to lie about like what my stepfather did
9:37
Speaker 4: to me, because they started to tell me, well, you know,
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Speaker 4: your stepfather is going to go away for a long time,
9:43
Speaker 4: and we think that you're jealous of your sister being born,
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Speaker 4: and this, this, this and that. So I started to minimize
9:50
Speaker 4: the abuse. And he only did six months in jail,
9:54
Speaker 4: and then he got out, and then when he got out,
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Speaker 4: my mother moved him back in.
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Speaker 2: Oh my god.
10:00
Speaker 4: But before that, you know, the crazy part is when
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Speaker 4: we came home after my step father got you know, arrested,
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Speaker 4: I felt like, right there and then like my mom
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Speaker 4: our relationship right away, it was done. It was done
10:15
Speaker 4: right there and done. She started to blame me. The
10:18
Speaker 4: reason why I couldn't do ballet and jazz tap after
10:21
Speaker 4: school was because my stepfather went to jail. The reason
10:23
Speaker 4: why we couldn't have certain food, or certain clothes or
10:26
Speaker 4: certain things was because my stepfather went to jail. She
10:28
Speaker 4: started working in a catering company. I was already working
10:31
Speaker 4: at a real estate office after school, and then I
10:34
Speaker 4: started to work with her at the catering company as well.
10:37
Speaker 4: So I was working two jobs. I was going to school,
10:42
Speaker 4: and I wasn't living a twelve year old life. And
10:46
Speaker 4: then next thing, you know, when I was thirteen and
10:49
Speaker 4: a half or fourteen, a friend of mine who I
10:53
Speaker 4: knew for a very long time, was like, hey, listen,
10:55
Speaker 4: I know exactly what you're going through, Like it was
10:58
Speaker 4: all over a story. Everybody in New York Gastoria knew,
11:01
Speaker 4: you know, what was going on. And she was like,
11:05
Speaker 4: you know, I have this pretty well connected, rich, powerful
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Speaker 4: guy who like really may help you, and you know, listen,
11:12
Speaker 4: he loves to get massages by young girls, and I
11:16
Speaker 4: know him and I could hook you up with him.
11:18
Speaker 4: And I was like, that's kind of weird, because I
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Speaker 4: don't know how to do, missa. I don't know how
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Speaker 4: to you know, I'm not a massuse and not a
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Speaker 4: licensed missus. And she was like no, no, no, no, don't worry.
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Speaker 4: He really just likes young girls to be around him,
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Speaker 4: and he just wants to be massaged by a young girl.
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Speaker 4: The only thing is you have to take off your top.
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Speaker 4: It's just like being in a bikini. She's like, you know, Marina,
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Speaker 4: you've been through so much worse with your stepfather. This
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Speaker 4: is nothing. And in all realities, she was right, this
11:44
Speaker 4: was like nothing to me. I've been through much worse
11:46
Speaker 4: with my stepfather. I mean there been times where my
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Speaker 4: mom and him fought and she would sleep in the
11:52
Speaker 4: living room and I would sleep with her in the
11:54
Speaker 4: living room, but he would come in the living room
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Speaker 4: in the in the sofa and they would have sex,
12:00
Speaker 4: and I would be on the Yeah, i would be
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Speaker 4: on the floor, on the mattress on the floor, and
12:05
Speaker 4: I'm like, what the hell is going on here? Like
12:08
Speaker 4: you know, I'm like, I'm like ten and a half.
12:11
Speaker 4: I went through so many things with my stepfather that
12:14
Speaker 4: Jeffrey just seeing and hearing about Jeffrey Epstein didn't seem
12:18
Speaker 4: so bad.
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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, It's like you it can't get worse, right,
12:22
Speaker 3: Like you experienced the worst. Like you think, how much
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Speaker 3: more evil can a human being, a man become?
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Speaker 4: And you know, I think being fourteenth. I had just
12:32
Speaker 4: turned fourteen when I met Jeffrey Epstein. I was so
12:36
Speaker 4: vulnerable and I really wanted things to go back to
12:40
Speaker 4: the way it was between my mom and I. And
12:42
Speaker 4: I thought by being this person who could pay all
12:46
Speaker 4: the bills and just be the head of household, things
12:49
Speaker 4: would change between my mom and I. I was infatuated
12:52
Speaker 4: with my mom like we had We were so close,
12:54
Speaker 4: like my real father and I just we never connected.
12:58
Speaker 4: I think just because he had four other kids, two
13:00
Speaker 4: other wives. I think we just never had that connection.
13:04
Speaker 4: He never did anything wrong. I just think he was
13:06
Speaker 4: he was twenty five years older than my mom. He
13:08
Speaker 4: was just not really he was probably tired. He was like, God,
13:12
Speaker 4: you're my fifth kid. I can't do it anymore, you know.
13:16
Speaker 4: So I was really vulnerable and I really needed help.
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Speaker 4: And when she took me to Jeffrey Epstein's house. I
13:24
Speaker 4: don't know, if you guys ever been to a story
13:25
Speaker 4: of Queens, New York, It's you know, it's it's an
13:28
Speaker 4: okay place. There's not many man there's no mansions. I
13:31
Speaker 4: don't think in the story of you know, Queens and
13:35
Speaker 4: just being a little being a teenager, just thinking what
13:38
Speaker 4: a mansion is is completely different than what I walked into,
13:41
Speaker 4: Like seeing a Jeffrey Epstein's house, like it looked like
13:44
Speaker 4: a place where there were many apartments. Meanwhile, this is
13:47
Speaker 4: like a whole mansion in New York City, you know,
13:51
Speaker 4: coming in seeing those big brown doors and just the
13:54
Speaker 4: je in the front, and then knowing later on that
13:57
Speaker 4: he had like his front the front of his house,
14:01
Speaker 4: he would have something where the snow would melt, you know.
14:04
Speaker 4: I was always like so amazed about all the things.
14:06
Speaker 4: He had nothing that I knew about, right, And when
14:09
Speaker 4: I got there, I was just like wow. When the
14:13
Speaker 4: maid opened up the door, and just knowing that he
14:16
Speaker 4: had a maid, I was like, wow, like he has
14:19
Speaker 4: a maid, you know, and cut me into it, I was.
14:23
Speaker 4: I went into his office which was his like his
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Speaker 4: waiting room, and just sitting there and I was talking
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Speaker 4: to her and I kept whispering everything. I didn't know
14:31
Speaker 4: how to even act in this person's house, like, you know,
14:34
Speaker 4: and she's like, you know, you can talk, like you
14:36
Speaker 4: can talk in a normal voice, and I'm like, I
14:39
Speaker 4: don't know how to act, and you know, seeing all
14:42
Speaker 4: these pictures which at the time I only really knew,
14:45
Speaker 4: you know, President Bill Clinton and President Donald Trump, and
14:50
Speaker 4: you know, and as time went on, you know, when
14:53
Speaker 4: my friends and I went there were like, wow, like
14:55
Speaker 4: he knows this, prince, he knows like this, he knows
14:57
Speaker 4: like you know, many celebrities that were also on his desk,
15:03
Speaker 4: and we were just I was just so amazed. And
15:07
Speaker 4: then the maid comes it gets us and brings us
15:11
Speaker 4: to the elevator which leads to the third floor, which
15:13
Speaker 4: is that's where his massage room is. And when you
15:16
Speaker 4: open up the doors, it's a big hallway with all
15:19
Speaker 4: these beautiful sketch of these women who are naked. And
15:23
Speaker 4: the time I didn't think anything. I was like, this
15:25
Speaker 4: must be some rich people stuff, like I don't know anything,
15:28
Speaker 4: you know. We walk into his massage room. He has
15:32
Speaker 4: a massage table in the middle. He has this huge
15:36
Speaker 4: bureau with all these lotions with which at the time,
15:40
Speaker 4: I don't know if you remember, Victoria's Secret was very expensive.
15:44
Speaker 2: Right I do remember?
15:47
Speaker 4: Do you remember like walking into the store and just
15:49
Speaker 4: wishing you could buy everything?
15:51
Speaker 1: Of course yes, at that page too, the fourteen is
15:55
Speaker 1: when I was like all I want is like every
15:57
Speaker 1: wonder bray all the lotions. Y.
16:01
Speaker 4: Yeah, all the lotions, and like everything smelled good, so
16:05
Speaker 4: you know, and there was obviously other very much more
16:08
Speaker 4: expensive lotions that I just did not know that, you know,
16:11
Speaker 4: did not know the names of it and the brands,
16:14
Speaker 4: you know, And I was just like so amazed. And
16:17
Speaker 4: on the ceiling he had these like clouds and like
16:21
Speaker 4: it was like the sky, and I was like, I
16:23
Speaker 4: was like, wow, this is like so cool. What a
16:26
Speaker 4: what a what a zen place? You know what.
16:28
Speaker 1: I think walking into that at any age would be
16:33
Speaker 1: wild and very much intimidating. And I keep going back
16:37
Speaker 1: as you're talking to the fact that you were only
16:39
Speaker 1: fourteen years old, like a giant.
16:42
Speaker 4: I was only fourteen. I have a twelve year old
16:44
Speaker 4: now who's going to be thirteen. And I look at
16:47
Speaker 4: her and I'm like, wow, my abuse just finished at
16:49
Speaker 4: this age with my stepfather, and I thought I was
16:52
Speaker 4: being free, and then my mother and I had like
16:55
Speaker 4: this whole like just break up. I felt like we
16:59
Speaker 4: broke up, me and my mom.
17:00
Speaker 2: You know.
17:02
Speaker 4: I think it's one of the worst things any human
17:05
Speaker 4: can experience, is knowing that your mom really doesn't have
17:08
Speaker 4: that true love for you, you know. So he comes
17:11
Speaker 4: into the room and he, you know, he puts out
17:14
Speaker 4: his hand and he's like, Hi, my name is Jeffrey,
17:16
Speaker 4: and I was like, Hi, my name is Marina. And
17:19
Speaker 4: he says, I've heard some really wonderful things about you.
17:21
Speaker 4: And I look over to my friend and I'm like
17:24
Speaker 4: smiling at her, like yeah, you've already put in the
17:26
Speaker 4: good word for me, you know, not thinking anything, just
17:29
Speaker 4: so innocent. And he lays down and he starts to
17:34
Speaker 4: ask me a whole bunch of things, like where am
17:35
Speaker 4: I from, Like what's my life? Like do I go
17:38
Speaker 4: to school? How old I am? He's trying to figure
17:42
Speaker 4: me out, and I'm like, oh my god, this is
17:44
Speaker 4: my moment. This is where I tell him everything I've
17:47
Speaker 4: been through. I didn't tell him about my step father,
17:49
Speaker 4: but I told him so many things about my family
17:52
Speaker 4: and the things that I was doing. And I just
17:54
Speaker 4: thought this man might just help me. This might be
17:58
Speaker 4: my way out. And when we were giving him a massage,
18:03
Speaker 4: he had gotten on the phone, which Jeffrey Epstein after
18:07
Speaker 4: a while, because I you know, seeing how he moved,
18:10
Speaker 4: he always got on the phone with very very important people,
18:14
Speaker 4: and he would put us on the phone with these
18:16
Speaker 4: important people.
18:17
Speaker 1: You would talk to these people on the phone, Yeah,
18:20
Speaker 1: about what what was the point of that.
18:23
Speaker 4: He would just be like, you know, I'm over here
18:26
Speaker 4: doing you know, I'm getting my massage. He was like,
18:28
Speaker 4: I'm doing my ritual, like I'm getting my massage by
18:31
Speaker 4: this young, beautiful Brazilian girl. And he would say sometimes,
18:34
Speaker 4: you know, if it was in European wherever she was from,
18:37
Speaker 4: and you know, this is my time of the day.
18:40
Speaker 4: And then he would say like say hello girls and
18:43
Speaker 4: be like hey, you know, and sometimes it would be
18:45
Speaker 4: a celebrity and we'd be like, oh my god, this
18:47
Speaker 4: is so cool.
18:49
Speaker 3: I think for narcissists, just having my own experience, these
18:52
Speaker 3: are just men that have narcissistic egos that they need
18:59
Speaker 3: to make them. It's like filling up their narcissistic cup
19:02
Speaker 3: to be able to show these young women to impress them,
19:05
Speaker 3: like hey, let me get Michael Jordan on the phone.
19:08
Speaker 3: Let me get so and so on the phone, like hey,
19:09
Speaker 3: say hi. It's like, oh my gosh to a fourteen
19:12
Speaker 3: year old. I think to most adults, being able to
19:15
Speaker 3: say any celebrity and having that interaction.
19:17
Speaker 2: It's part of the grooming process.
19:20
Speaker 4: One hundred percent. I mean listen. I went to the
19:23
Speaker 4: State of the Union, and I was like, oh my god,
19:26
Speaker 4: I thought it was a shit because, you know, like
19:30
Speaker 4: I am, and I'm an adult, you know, and these
19:32
Speaker 4: are like some real people, some politicians that are doing
19:36
Speaker 4: some real things, you know. And I was like, oh
19:39
Speaker 4: my god, I'm so honored to be here as an adult.
19:42
Speaker 4: I was already amazed by that. So I can't, like,
19:44
Speaker 4: I bring myself to fourteen old me and I I
19:48
Speaker 4: think of it now, I'm like, oh my god, how
19:50
Speaker 4: stupid was that? But it's not. It's not stupid because
19:52
Speaker 4: if I tell.
19:53
Speaker 2: My daughter stupid and you were, you were fourteen years old.
19:56
Speaker 1: I look at myself at fourteen years old and what
19:59
Speaker 1: I thought I knew and what was cool, And I
20:02
Speaker 1: was fortunate enough to have a mother who really kept
20:06
Speaker 1: me in line and was there for me, Babi me
20:09
Speaker 1: a father who was incredible.
20:11
Speaker 2: You were fourteen, and you had zero guidance.
20:14
Speaker 1: The one person who's supposed to protect you and have
20:17
Speaker 1: your back and keep you safe fully dropped the ball
20:20
Speaker 1: on that. You were floundering. You were in the middle
20:24
Speaker 1: of the ocean by yourself, trying to figure out how
20:27
Speaker 1: to survive. At what point in time. Did you feel
20:30
Speaker 1: like what you had gone to do with the massages
20:35
Speaker 1: and taking the top off? Was there a turning point
20:37
Speaker 1: of this feels yucky, something is not right.
20:40
Speaker 4: Well, you know, when we were in the middle of
20:43
Speaker 4: the masage, she turned around and he had a towel on,
20:46
Speaker 4: and then his towel came off, so now he's naked,
20:49
Speaker 4: and that caught me off guard. But then I thought
20:52
Speaker 4: he was just going to get up and say thank you,
20:54
Speaker 4: and then he turns around. He's like, can you take
20:57
Speaker 4: your bra off? And I'm like no, because now I'm frozen.
21:02
Speaker 4: Now I'm like, oh my god, should I just do
21:05
Speaker 4: what he's asking me to do? Because I've been in
21:07
Speaker 4: a place with my stepfather where I didn't do where
21:10
Speaker 4: he wanted and then I got kicked and punched. So
21:13
Speaker 4: the last thing I wanted was to get physically abused
21:16
Speaker 4: in a how in a mansion where I'm in the
21:18
Speaker 4: third floor, I don't know where anything is. This is
21:21
Speaker 4: my first time there. The only person I truly trust
21:24
Speaker 4: there is my friend who I know, and I'm like,
21:28
Speaker 4: I can no longer trust her because she has now
21:30
Speaker 4: lied to me and put me in a situation where
21:33
Speaker 4: as women it's hard to say no sometimes as adult
21:36
Speaker 4: because we you know, if some of us are very strong,
21:39
Speaker 4: we can create boundaries and stand that ground and say no.
21:42
Speaker 4: But as a child, it's so hard to say no sometimes.
21:45
Speaker 4: And I like, when I talk to my daughter, I'm like,
21:47
Speaker 4: you have to say no, Like you have to be
21:49
Speaker 4: strong enough to say no. She's like, but I'm so embarrassed.
21:53
Speaker 4: I'm like, don't be embarrassed. There's nothing to be embarrassed about.
21:57
Speaker 4: I'm like, if it's if it's hard for you to
21:59
Speaker 4: say no, there's a reason why it's hard for you
22:01
Speaker 4: to say no. And there's a reason why you need
22:03
Speaker 4: to say no, Like there's a need to say no.
22:06
Speaker 2: Oh, I got the chills. That's so true. It isn't true.
22:09
Speaker 4: There's a reason, there's a reason, there's a reason, and
22:12
Speaker 4: that's when you really have to say, we have to
22:14
Speaker 4: empower our kids. It's not only women. It's not only
22:17
Speaker 4: our daughters, our son as well. They men have boundaries
22:19
Speaker 4: as well, and women sometimes mistaken those boundaries for you know, well,
22:25
Speaker 4: he's being he's being you know, aggressive, or or he's
22:30
Speaker 4: being you know, he's too jealous.
22:32
Speaker 3: No.
22:32
Speaker 4: Men sometimes have and it depends what they are, because
22:34
Speaker 4: sometimes men are that way. But men have boundaries too.
22:37
Speaker 4: We just have to know what they really are and
22:40
Speaker 4: if they make sense. But when he turned around and
22:43
Speaker 4: asked me to take off my bra, I told him no,
22:45
Speaker 4: and then he just like leaned up to go grab
22:48
Speaker 4: my boob, and I was like, it was so instant,
22:52
Speaker 4: it was like a slow like no, my hand just
22:55
Speaker 4: I was like, I'm not comfortable. And he turned around
22:58
Speaker 4: and he smiled and he said it's okay. It'll take
23:02
Speaker 4: some time, but she'll get comfortable with me.
23:04
Speaker 2: Oh wow, And what I worried? You were? Still? What
23:09
Speaker 2: age was this?
23:10
Speaker 4: I was fourteen, fourteen. I just met him. This is
23:14
Speaker 4: my first time.
23:15
Speaker 1: So he jumped right into the here's my private parts,
23:19
Speaker 1: take your bra off mm hmm, and correct me if
23:22
Speaker 1: I'm wrong. You got out of this situation when you
23:25
Speaker 1: turned seventeen.
23:26
Speaker 4: Yes I did.
23:28
Speaker 2: I am so.
23:31
Speaker 1: Him saying you'll get comfortable because he knew. Of course,
23:36
Speaker 1: he knew. This was not his first rodeo. He was
23:40
Speaker 1: all about putting celebrities on the phone. He knew exactly
23:45
Speaker 1: what to do to start that grooming process, and let me.
23:48
Speaker 4: Tell you, he did it very well. When we left her.
23:51
Speaker 4: My girlfriend was very upset with me because I didn't
23:54
Speaker 4: play along. And even during she was upset, she called
23:57
Speaker 4: me a prude. She was like stop. She said it
24:01
Speaker 4: to be in Portuguese, you know, she was like, stop
24:04
Speaker 4: being a prude. And I was like, I was frozen
24:07
Speaker 4: at her. I was like I'm not I wanted to
24:09
Speaker 4: tell her, you know, what I've been through, Like what
24:11
Speaker 4: the fuck is your problem? And she's she comes to
24:15
Speaker 4: the other side and her and Jeffrey Epstein start to
24:19
Speaker 4: aggressively get into this like I don't even know what
24:25
Speaker 4: it was. It was just so aggressive, like it was
24:27
Speaker 4: like she was like pinching his nipples and he was
24:29
Speaker 4: like touching himself and it was like so and I
24:32
Speaker 4: just stood next to her like just frozen, frozen in
24:37
Speaker 4: time and just thinking like, oh my god, please don't
24:40
Speaker 4: do that to me.
24:41
Speaker 2: How old was she?
24:43
Speaker 4: She was a year or two years older than me,
24:46
Speaker 4: so she was also yeah, sixty, Yeah, she was sixteen seventeen.
24:50
Speaker 4: I think I was fourteen. She was sixteen at the time. Yeah.
24:53
Speaker 3: It's such a shame that, like, you know, it's almost
24:56
Speaker 3: like we have to train our bodies not to freeze
24:58
Speaker 3: because we've been in those situations where even if I'm terrified, right,
25:02
Speaker 3: I'm so scared because it's dark outside and I'm a
25:05
Speaker 3: single mom, and you know, I also have a thirteen
25:07
Speaker 3: year old and a sixteen year old or twelve year
25:09
Speaker 3: old and six year old. Your body just freezes and
25:14
Speaker 3: you want to like, you want to scream, you want
25:17
Speaker 3: to move, but you you're paralyzed. And it's such a
25:21
Speaker 3: shame that, like I wish, you know, there was an
25:24
Speaker 3: easier way to even teach our you know, our daughters,
25:27
Speaker 3: how to like get out of that, you know, And
25:30
Speaker 3: it's just by experience in training yourself, you know when
25:33
Speaker 3: they say jiu jitsu is a great form of self
25:36
Speaker 3: defense for these little kids, but you know, you being fourteen,
25:39
Speaker 3: you're not going to win, you know, in that situation.
25:43
Speaker 4: No, And it's it's sad, you know that us at
25:47
Speaker 4: our age, we freeze. I mean, I think my one
25:52
Speaker 4: of my friends said to me that she went to
25:54
Speaker 4: a party and one of her girlfriends came up to
25:57
Speaker 4: her and like danced uff behind her, you know, and
26:00
Speaker 4: she was like WHOA, Like I've never experienced this, and
26:03
Speaker 4: she stood there and I was like, why did you freeze?
26:05
Speaker 4: She's like I don't know. I was like, if that
26:07
Speaker 4: was a man, would you have been frozen? She was like, no,
26:10
Speaker 4: I would have not. I would have stood up to me.
26:11
Speaker 4: I said, but she's also disrespecting you. You should have
26:15
Speaker 4: not frozen. And she was like I did freeze. I
26:18
Speaker 4: was like, yeah, because we all do that sometimes because
26:20
Speaker 4: we just were not expecting it, and we're like, how
26:22
Speaker 4: do we respond to this? Like what message are we
26:26
Speaker 4: getting here? You know? I think it really it fucks
26:29
Speaker 4: with our brain, you know, and it's hard for us
26:31
Speaker 4: at this age. I can't imagine a twelve thirteen, fourteen,
26:35
Speaker 4: fifteen sixteen. It's like when Megan Kelly was like, well
26:39
Speaker 4: you know they were like fourteen sixteen and they looked older.
26:42
Speaker 4: Doesn't work like that.
26:44
Speaker 3: No, I mean anything, I want to go back between
26:56
Speaker 3: in those those three years, three or four years that
26:59
Speaker 3: you were with and you were having these experiences, did
27:03
Speaker 3: it get any worse than just having to massage him?
27:06
Speaker 3: Or was that pretty much like he had each girl
27:10
Speaker 3: doing very specific tasks for him.
27:12
Speaker 4: Well, it did get worse, right, I told her I
27:14
Speaker 4: wasn't going to go back. She tried to. She really
27:17
Speaker 4: did convince me. She was like, listen, like You're not
27:19
Speaker 4: going to meet anybody like this person is well connected,
27:23
Speaker 4: he knows everybody, like he has money. You're not going
27:26
Speaker 4: to meet anybody. You're from Brazil, you live in Astoria.
27:29
Speaker 4: She's like, you know, I live right next to Astoria.
27:31
Speaker 4: I know there's like nothing going on for you there.
27:34
Speaker 4: So I'm just telling you he is going to call
27:36
Speaker 4: and ask for you again, and most likely you will
27:39
Speaker 4: go back. And I was like, no, I won't. But
27:41
Speaker 4: you know, going back home and having that week where
27:44
Speaker 4: my mom is telling me I'm not going to be nothing,
27:48
Speaker 4: and you know that I needed to get up from
27:50
Speaker 4: school because I was like barely making to get up
27:53
Speaker 4: from school because I was so tired from working and
27:56
Speaker 4: just having her you know, just you know, bad really
28:01
Speaker 4: hard on everything that I didn't. You know, I remember
28:03
Speaker 4: something she always told me. She was like, you'll never
28:06
Speaker 4: be anything in America. You'll just be a better version
28:08
Speaker 4: of me. And that always that always stuck to me,
28:12
Speaker 4: Like I was like, oh my god, like and this
28:15
Speaker 4: is the thing, like it made me want to do
28:18
Speaker 4: so much more, but it wasn't the right things. Like
28:21
Speaker 4: it just made me want to win, win, win, and
28:23
Speaker 4: get you know, get a house and have her live
28:26
Speaker 4: in a house. You know. I feel like any any
28:29
Speaker 4: person that is struggling and see their parents and love
28:32
Speaker 4: their parents, they like first think about their parents. They're like,
28:34
Speaker 4: I want to do something for them, because you know,
28:37
Speaker 4: I always felt like, Wow, my mom, you know, brought
28:39
Speaker 4: me to this country. I have to make it, you know,
28:41
Speaker 4: And that that's what really brought me back to Jeffrey
28:44
Speaker 4: was eating those you know, we got to the point
28:47
Speaker 4: where we were eating the what is it called the
28:50
Speaker 4: cup noodles, the noodles cup? Is it the chicken?
28:52
Speaker 3: Oh?
28:53
Speaker 2: Cup of noodles?
28:54
Speaker 4: Cup of noodles. They were like, I think we're fifty
28:56
Speaker 4: cents at the time, me and my sister and my mom.
28:59
Speaker 4: My sister was already eating at the time, and that's
29:04
Speaker 4: what we would have for dinner, like and maybe we
29:07
Speaker 4: would have ham and cheese at the house and other
29:09
Speaker 4: than that, like we were really following apart. We had
29:13
Speaker 4: rented out all the rooms. We were living in one room,
29:17
Speaker 4: and it was just we were barely making my mom
29:20
Speaker 4: was barely making the rent, and I really wanted things
29:23
Speaker 4: to just go back to normal.
29:25
Speaker 3: Was your stepfather gone at this point?
29:27
Speaker 4: Yep? He was gone. Okay, he was very much gone
29:32
Speaker 4: and then he well, so then you know, Jeffrey did
29:37
Speaker 4: call my friend for me to go back, and I
29:39
Speaker 4: was like, I'll go back. I'm gonna go back, And
29:44
Speaker 4: in my head, I'm like, I'm gonna make this guy
29:48
Speaker 4: really understand what I'm going through. I'm gonna explain more
29:52
Speaker 4: to him that I already did that there's more than
29:55
Speaker 4: just like what he wants, and you know, like he
29:58
Speaker 4: can help me, like maybe he'll feel bad for me.
30:01
Speaker 4: And you know, when I went back, he was really nice.
30:04
Speaker 4: And this is what I tell everybody, like groomors are
30:07
Speaker 4: not going to be mean to you, like unless you're
30:08
Speaker 4: kidnapped in a room and he can fully abuse you
30:12
Speaker 4: and have full control. Right now, he's trying to gain control,
30:15
Speaker 4: and by gaining control, he's seeing that it didn't work
30:18
Speaker 4: when he asked me to take off my bra, so
30:20
Speaker 4: now he's like so nice to me. He didn't ask
30:22
Speaker 4: me to do anything. It was just a massage, and
30:25
Speaker 4: every time I went back it was like something new.
30:27
Speaker 4: It was like take off your bra, take off your pants,
30:30
Speaker 4: take off your underwear. And it got to the point
30:33
Speaker 4: where you know, I have to say this. I went
30:36
Speaker 4: to Virginia Guffrey's memorial here in West Palm Right, and
30:41
Speaker 4: I'm meeting all these survivors. Some of these survivors I
30:44
Speaker 4: knew didn't bring them to Jeffrey, because that was another
30:47
Speaker 4: thing about Jeffrey, which I'll get back.
30:49
Speaker 2: To a lot.
30:51
Speaker 4: Some of the Brazilian girls were there, and I was like,
30:53
Speaker 4: Oh my god, like I can't believe, Like I can't
30:55
Speaker 4: believe we're connected, and like you were right next to
30:57
Speaker 4: me and I didn't know about you, and I didn't
30:59
Speaker 4: know you were going to Jeffres Right. And these are
31:01
Speaker 4: people that I used to talk to all the time, right,
31:05
Speaker 4: And I'm listening to some of their stories, and some
31:08
Speaker 4: of these girls are telling me they're getting raped, and
31:10
Speaker 4: I'm like, holy shit, like they've been through hell and back.
31:16
Speaker 4: Just in my head, I'm like, you know, everything is
31:19
Speaker 4: all this information is coming into me. I'm listening to
31:21
Speaker 4: Amanda and Sky talk about Virginia and I'm bawling, like
31:25
Speaker 4: I did not even meet Virginia. Just her strength and
31:29
Speaker 4: her power is so resilient. And I had no idea.
31:32
Speaker 4: After twenty nineteen, after two thousand and eight, two times
31:35
Speaker 4: FBI came looking for me, I did not google or
31:38
Speaker 4: went on the Internet because there was no Google. I
31:40
Speaker 4: think in two thousand and eight, I did not look
31:42
Speaker 4: for Jeffrey Epstein. I did not know about the West
31:44
Speaker 4: Palm Beach. I did not know anything. I did not
31:48
Speaker 4: know about the I didn't know anything. I never looked
31:50
Speaker 4: into it. After two thousand and eight, I got really
31:52
Speaker 4: scared and I wanted nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein.
31:55
Speaker 4: I'm listening to all this and I'm just heartbroken. I'm like,
31:59
Speaker 4: I can't fucking believe he did this, right. So I
32:02
Speaker 4: come back home and I call one of the survivors
32:05
Speaker 4: who I'm very close with, and I'm like, girl, you're
32:09
Speaker 4: not gonna believe it, like Jeffrey Epstein raped these women.
32:14
Speaker 4: So she's like so quiet on the phone, and I'm
32:16
Speaker 4: telling her about the memorial and I'm like, I'm just
32:19
Speaker 4: in shock, like he did this. And she's like, marine,
32:22
Speaker 4: are you okay? Are you like or is someone around you?
32:27
Speaker 4: Because I think she thought somebody was around me that
32:29
Speaker 4: I was like not wanting to be honest about what
32:31
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein did, and I was like, yeah, I'm okay.
32:33
Speaker 4: I'm like no, I'm home alone, and she's like, you
32:37
Speaker 4: don't remember nothing. I said, I do remember. She was like,
32:42
Speaker 4: you don't remember that. Jeffrey Epstein used to put us
32:44
Speaker 4: in the room, three or four of us, and he
32:47
Speaker 4: used to PLoP you on top of him and rape
32:51
Speaker 4: you in front of us and tell us like, this
32:54
Speaker 4: is how you're supposed to be doing things to make
32:57
Speaker 4: me happy. This is what a good girl does. She's like,
32:59
Speaker 4: we used to be like three or four of us
33:01
Speaker 4: in the room watching you. And I'm like what. She's
33:05
Speaker 4: like yeah, She's like, oh my god. She's like, you
33:08
Speaker 4: don't remember this. I just every time I say this,
33:12
Speaker 4: I get chills because I think trauma just completely blocked
33:15
Speaker 4: that out of my head.
33:16
Speaker 1: Of course, you it's survival. The brain is such an
33:19
Speaker 1: insane thing. What it the length it will go to.
33:24
Speaker 1: It knows that you are in survival mode. It will
33:28
Speaker 1: disassociate you from an experience like that just so you
33:31
Speaker 1: can go on with your life the best that you can.
33:34
Speaker 2: It's it's wild, insane how it works.
33:38
Speaker 4: It's so true. People ask me like, why did you
33:40
Speaker 4: keep going back. I'm like, I just wanted to survive.
33:42
Speaker 4: I just wanted to take care of my mom. My
33:44
Speaker 4: stepfather eventually moved back home. My mom put him back there.
33:48
Speaker 4: I had to move out with a boyfriend who started
33:51
Speaker 4: to who had a great family. He did not need
33:53
Speaker 4: to move out. He started to sell drugs so he
33:55
Speaker 4: can so he can pay for the bills. I'm going
33:58
Speaker 4: to Jeffrey Epstein's house. He does not know that I'm
34:00
Speaker 4: working at night at that point, and we're just in
34:03
Speaker 4: survival mode. You know this, this boyfriend of mine, who was,
34:07
Speaker 4: you know, seventeen at the time. I must have been
34:09
Speaker 4: fifteen when I moved out. He did not need to
34:11
Speaker 4: move out, and he did not definitely did not need
34:13
Speaker 4: to sell drugs, and you know, unfortunately he got deported,
34:16
Speaker 4: but it was the best way for him because he's
34:17
Speaker 4: a very successful person today and married. But you know,
34:21
Speaker 4: I just look at it, and people when they ask me,
34:23
Speaker 4: I'm like, have you ever been in survival mode? You
34:25
Speaker 4: will do anything to survive? Like me as a mom,
34:28
Speaker 4: if God forbid, anything happens and I don't have money
34:32
Speaker 4: to support my daughter, I will go above and beyond
34:36
Speaker 4: for anything that my daughter needs. I will never put
34:41
Speaker 4: her in charge of, you know, the bills or the
34:44
Speaker 4: I would never even tell her. I would just be like,
34:46
Speaker 4: don't worry about it be a kid, go be happy
34:49
Speaker 4: and go to school and do your cheer because that's
34:53
Speaker 4: what she loves. Because I guess that's like the popular
34:55
Speaker 4: thing now.
34:56
Speaker 2: Oh the kids love cheer right now.
34:58
Speaker 4: I mean, it's gonna make us broke, I think at
35:00
Speaker 4: this point.
35:01
Speaker 3: But Marina, I have to say something though. You guys
35:04
Speaker 3: kept you guys keep using the word survival. But let's
35:06
Speaker 3: not forget because it's really important that the listeners it's brainwashed.
35:11
Speaker 3: You were brainwashed first, and then now you're just surviving,
35:15
Speaker 3: so you're not even operating in a conscious state. You're
35:20
Speaker 3: unconscious moving forward in a way of life that feels
35:24
Speaker 3: like survival. This is just my opinion, but I really
35:27
Speaker 3: I don't want you to like just use that word
35:29
Speaker 3: survival because to me, it feels so much deeper than
35:31
Speaker 3: just that.
35:32
Speaker 4: I think you're definitely right, and I don't think we
35:35
Speaker 4: looked at that when we are. It's something that Hayley
35:38
Speaker 4: Robinson said, and she said in one of the press conferences,
35:42
Speaker 4: she said, we're traumatized. We are not stupid, you know,
35:46
Speaker 4: and we've been traumatized, We've been through all that, and
35:50
Speaker 4: we've been brainwashed. Because at that point Jeffrey Epstein was
35:54
Speaker 4: putting all of us against one another to compete on
35:58
Speaker 4: who would bring him the most girls, who would be
36:01
Speaker 4: the best, and who would be a good girl for
36:05
Speaker 4: him and would listen to him, because he was all
36:07
Speaker 4: about controlling things, and when he needn't have control, he
36:11
Speaker 4: did not like it.
36:12
Speaker 3: I'll tell you how much did you meet Maxwell at
36:14
Speaker 3: that point? Along those three years, I.
36:17
Speaker 4: Did meet Maxwell, And it was very weird how I
36:20
Speaker 4: met Maxwell because I was with a Jane Doe who
36:24
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein was absolutely in love. But this girl was
36:29
Speaker 4: also in survival mode. Brazilian immigrant, didn't have her parents
36:34
Speaker 4: sending all the money back to Brazil, her parents not
36:37
Speaker 4: asking where she's getting this money. She's eighteen at the time,
36:41
Speaker 4: doing her modeling gig, working also side with me at
36:45
Speaker 4: this Greek place that we worked at nighttime. We were
36:47
Speaker 4: selling flowers, and Jeffrey Epstein met her and he fell
36:52
Speaker 4: in love with her, but she would not want to
36:53
Speaker 4: go there by herself, so she would I would go
36:55
Speaker 4: with her, and he would get upset because he didn't
36:58
Speaker 4: want me there. So he allowed me to hang out
37:01
Speaker 4: in the house and wander around and she would be
37:04
Speaker 4: in the room. But one day, he asked for me
37:06
Speaker 4: to stay in the room, which was weird because he
37:08
Speaker 4: never asked me to stay in the room while she
37:10
Speaker 4: was there. And when he asked me to stay in
37:12
Speaker 4: the room, he was like, I want to go into
37:14
Speaker 4: my bedroom, which he didn't do it either with myself
37:18
Speaker 4: or any of my friends. And we went into the
37:21
Speaker 4: bedroom and he had these white sheets, and I remember
37:25
Speaker 4: laying in the bed and going like, Wow, this is
37:28
Speaker 4: a real comfortable bed. And look at the things that
37:31
Speaker 4: are going through my head, you know, because you know, again,
37:33
Speaker 4: I'm living by myself at this point. Now I don't
37:36
Speaker 4: have the best bed, and I don't have the best apartment.
37:39
Speaker 4: And I just want to remind people, you know, I'm
37:41
Speaker 4: fifteen and a half and I have my own apartment
37:45
Speaker 4: with my name on it. I still have the least today.
37:47
Speaker 4: Literally like that apartment, I would turn on the water
37:50
Speaker 4: and I would get shocked.
37:52
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it was so bad.
37:55
Speaker 4: It was like we had rats everywhere. I was like,
37:58
Speaker 4: oh my god. But you know, again, I'm in survival mode.
38:01
Speaker 4: I was. It just this is what you go through,
38:04
Speaker 4: you know, And I just think that we don't we don't.
38:08
Speaker 4: I don't think about these things that I was getting
38:10
Speaker 4: shocked with the water. I could have possibly died. Every
38:12
Speaker 4: time I would turn it out.
38:13
Speaker 2: It was like, it's just like your dorm. Yeah, that
38:15
Speaker 2: was your dorm, right, it was.
38:19
Speaker 4: So I bring this girl and he's like, let's go
38:22
Speaker 4: into the bedroom, and you know, there's these white sheets,
38:24
Speaker 4: and that's all I could really remember. It was like
38:27
Speaker 4: being in this bed with these white sheets, like this
38:31
Speaker 4: cotton feeling. And he said it was me and this
38:35
Speaker 4: Jane Doe and him, and he says, I have a
38:38
Speaker 4: friend that's going to be joining us, and she walks
38:40
Speaker 4: in and he never introduced us to her. Now, I
38:44
Speaker 4: have seen pictures of Gilay with him and his house
38:48
Speaker 4: and me and my friends, and he always had a
38:49
Speaker 4: picture with a little girl, like an eight nine year
38:51
Speaker 4: old girl. And we always used to say, Jeffrey definitely
38:55
Speaker 4: has a family and is lying to us, But like,
38:58
Speaker 4: how is he so open about letting us come in
39:00
Speaker 4: here when he has a whole family. So one day
39:02
Speaker 4: we asked him, We're like, do you have a wife
39:05
Speaker 4: and a kid? He's like, absolutely not, and we're like
39:08
Speaker 4: thank god, because if you didn't, that'd be a problem.
39:11
Speaker 4: But he never said he had a wife. And a kid.
39:13
Speaker 4: And we're just like, that's so weird because like we
39:16
Speaker 4: just figured he would have a wife and a kid.
39:18
Speaker 4: I don't know why. I guess as kids, you just
39:19
Speaker 4: always I guess you jumped to that conclusion. So Glaine
39:24
Speaker 4: walks in. At the time, I didn't know who she was.
39:27
Speaker 4: Now they both raped both they both raped me and
39:31
Speaker 4: this girl, right, But I always want to come to her.
39:36
Speaker 4: This girl is so traumatized by this. She has never
39:39
Speaker 4: spoken about it. She has never come after any little gay.
39:44
Speaker 4: She has done absolutely nothing.
39:46
Speaker 2: So even now to this day, she remains quiet.
39:51
Speaker 4: She remains very silent. And her reason why is because
39:55
Speaker 4: she's scared that her husband will leave her. And I said,
39:59
Speaker 4: and I tell her all the time, I'm like why,
40:03
Speaker 4: why do you feel like that? But she also has
40:07
Speaker 4: her son has an autoimmune disease and he's not going
40:12
Speaker 4: to live a very long time. So I kind of understand.
40:14
Speaker 4: She's like, I have to be there for my kids,
40:16
Speaker 4: like my family are like everything to me, and this
40:19
Speaker 4: is what's important to me. And I'm like I get it,
40:22
Speaker 4: like I respect it, but I always want to talk
40:24
Speaker 4: to her, like, hey, I want details of like what
40:27
Speaker 4: happened that day to us in that bedroom. But she
40:30
Speaker 4: doesn't even like to hear the word Jeffrey. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
40:34
Speaker 4: And I only realized it was Glaine in two thousand
40:37
Speaker 4: and like twenty or twenty one because I saw her,
40:42
Speaker 4: you know, in the news and all that, and I'm like,
40:44
Speaker 4: oh my god, I'm like, that's the woman that Jeffrey
40:47
Speaker 4: brought into the room. And you know, because he never
40:50
Speaker 4: introduced her as like this is my friend Gallaine, like
40:53
Speaker 4: this is you know, he just she just came into
40:55
Speaker 4: the room.
40:57
Speaker 3: I want to fast forward a little bit and talk
40:59
Speaker 3: about what's happening now. I've fortunately, and unfortunately can't help myself,
41:05
Speaker 3: but I have read a lot of the stuff that's
41:07
Speaker 3: going on on the DJ website, and I've read some
41:10
Speaker 3: pretty horrific thing that has really shaken me to my core.
41:14
Speaker 3: And you know, I've called all on said like this
41:17
Speaker 3: is the most insane things. Have you had an opportunity
41:22
Speaker 3: to read some of the other the three million, I mean.
41:28
Speaker 4: Not the whole three million, but I you know, being
41:31
Speaker 4: in the political side now, which we wanted to be bipartisan,
41:35
Speaker 4: we kind of have to keep up with all this
41:38
Speaker 4: all these news, including Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton's deposition
41:42
Speaker 4: that took me about I only got to Bill Clinton,
41:45
Speaker 4: which I only got to two and a half hours.
41:46
Speaker 4: But I have to get on it because these are
41:48
Speaker 4: things that we do talk about. So yes, I am
41:50
Speaker 4: very familiar with the three million files, but not the
41:52
Speaker 4: whole three million files. And whoever'sday they've been through three
41:55
Speaker 4: million files is lying.
42:06
Speaker 1: There was a part of the files where they talked
42:10
Speaker 1: about a calendar girl party and there are names listed
42:13
Speaker 1: of who was there for you and what you experienced.
42:18
Speaker 1: Do you think that every person that attended any party
42:22
Speaker 1: or gathering of Jeffrey Epstein knew good and goddamn well
42:26
Speaker 1: who that man was and what he was capable of one.
42:29
Speaker 4: Hundred percent got one hundred percent. I mean, we don't
42:32
Speaker 4: have to be it's you know, like Jeffrey Epstein's we
42:35
Speaker 4: don't have to be a brain surgeon because he told
42:37
Speaker 4: us that we don't have two guys. This is not
42:40
Speaker 4: science rocket like. We have to understand there are six
42:44
Speaker 4: pages of allegations and we have to go back to
42:46
Speaker 4: Maria Farmer in nineteen ninety six. Her allegations at the
42:51
Speaker 4: time were just allegations what now are very much proven
42:56
Speaker 4: to be true. And it has taken us two decades
42:59
Speaker 4: to understand this and realize that it's not a hoax.
43:03
Speaker 3: I have not read them, which I would like to amber.
43:07
Speaker 1: You said the one that you read the measuring and
43:12
Speaker 1: the list of names on the side, and you asked
43:14
Speaker 1: me about this person, do you still talk to them?
43:17
Speaker 1: And I read it and I said, well I did
43:18
Speaker 1: until now.
43:20
Speaker 2: You know what's so crazy you guys?
43:22
Speaker 3: And now I remember this is a perfect example of
43:25
Speaker 3: everything that I read. It was so disturbing that I
43:27
Speaker 3: actually my brain just forgot blocked it. I am so disgusted.
43:32
Speaker 4: What are we doing about it?
43:33
Speaker 2: What are we doing about anything about it? And that's
43:36
Speaker 2: the sick part.
43:37
Speaker 1: We are watching the news and who is it? Prince
43:41
Speaker 1: Andrew arrested on like his fifty something birthday at five
43:45
Speaker 1: in the fucking morning. Meanwhile, the one of the biggest
43:50
Speaker 1: pieces of shit is running the free world and we're
43:54
Speaker 1: not doing a damn thing. We have been hearing about
43:58
Speaker 1: these files for years on end. We have women who
44:03
Speaker 1: have band together to finally share their story.
44:08
Speaker 4: We have everybody doing everything around the world. We have
44:11
Speaker 4: Norway taken down Prime Minister, we have Norway taking down
44:16
Speaker 4: asking Princess I was just there, Princess Meta why she
44:20
Speaker 4: was in contact with Epstein. We have monarchies being takeover
44:25
Speaker 4: taken down, and we Americans are who is the United
44:28
Speaker 4: States of America who believes in justice and the land
44:31
Speaker 4: of free We are doing absolutely nothing.
44:36
Speaker 1: It makes me so terrified to rate kids in this country.
44:42
Speaker 4: I just said it. I was like, oh my god,
44:44
Speaker 4: I just said it in Laura coachs. I was like,
44:46
Speaker 4: the question is do we even want to be here anymore?
44:48
Speaker 4: This was the place where everybody wanted to be and
44:50
Speaker 4: now it's coming down to I go to Europe and
44:53
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh my god, I'm like, this is where
44:55
Speaker 4: we need to be. They have the best healthcare system,
44:58
Speaker 4: They have real food. We don't even have real food
45:01
Speaker 4: here anymore. We don't like, whether we want to believe
45:04
Speaker 4: it or not, cheesus, fake meet us, fake. Everything is
45:07
Speaker 4: fake here, and if you're buying the real stuff, we
45:09
Speaker 4: don't even know if we're buying real groceries anymore.
45:12
Speaker 1: Well, because we're being lied to about everything. There's not
45:14
Speaker 1: one there's not one thing that people are being honest about.
45:19
Speaker 2: And what makes me the most sick.
45:21
Speaker 1: Is that it has been years on end of the
45:25
Speaker 1: rich and powerful trying to desensitize us to be okay
45:30
Speaker 1: with this shit, and now here we are and no
45:32
Speaker 1: one's okay with it, but nothing's being done, so we're
45:36
Speaker 1: being forced to be okay with it.
45:38
Speaker 2: Everyone is afraid.
45:39
Speaker 3: That's why, because of the powers that be, the fact
45:43
Speaker 3: that we were able to cover up all these names,
45:45
Speaker 3: and by the way, the list of names that are
45:48
Speaker 3: still redacted.
45:49
Speaker 1: It is utter insanity. I am of the mindset and
45:55
Speaker 1: I wholeheartedly believe in this, and I'm not just saying
45:58
Speaker 1: this to make anyone feel better. A day will come,
46:01
Speaker 1: and I know that it's so hard to think that
46:03
Speaker 1: way because you were directly involved, Marina, and you have
46:08
Speaker 1: direct trauma. I know in my heart that what's done
46:13
Speaker 1: in the dark will always come to the light, and
46:17
Speaker 1: these people are going to have the hardest and longest
46:21
Speaker 1: fall from grace and it's going to be fucking beautiful
46:24
Speaker 1: when it happens.
46:25
Speaker 4: I most certainly agree with you.
46:28
Speaker 1: I'm just in awe of all of you, Marina, and
46:32
Speaker 1: I am so grateful that you came on this podcast.
46:36
Speaker 1: The fact that you can like make jokes and laugh
46:41
Speaker 1: talk about your sweet daughter.
46:42
Speaker 2: I'm just please never shut the fuck up.
46:46
Speaker 4: I won't shut the fuck up. You know. The reason
46:50
Speaker 4: why I speak is obviously I want to bring awareness,
46:52
Speaker 4: but I also want to explain to people that, like
46:56
Speaker 4: I don't live my life every day thinking about what
46:59
Speaker 4: happens to me in the past, there is a healing
47:02
Speaker 4: process women and men that have been abused. I always
47:06
Speaker 4: want to give them this side of me because sometimes
47:08
Speaker 4: when I do different platforms, I did one yesterday and
47:11
Speaker 4: we were taking pictures and it was like me being sad.
47:13
Speaker 4: I'm like, but this is not who I am. This
47:16
Speaker 4: is who I was. Who I am today is a
47:19
Speaker 4: woman that wants to represent other women and men who
47:22
Speaker 4: have been abused and say, listen, we're not going to
47:24
Speaker 4: live in the past. We have a life to live.
47:27
Speaker 4: We will be living this life like it's the last
47:31
Speaker 4: life out because I do believe like there is recarnation.
47:34
Speaker 4: I believe there like you said it earlier, like you know,
47:36
Speaker 4: this is it right here, and we have to live
47:38
Speaker 4: it every day. It's like it's last, and we have
47:40
Speaker 4: to live this life like it's last. We can't just
47:42
Speaker 4: be like, well I have another life come, it's recarnation.
47:44
Speaker 4: It doesn't work like that. We have to live it,
47:46
Speaker 4: and we have to enjoy these even sweet and bitter moments,
47:51
Speaker 4: because it is part of what shapes us in life
47:53
Speaker 4: later on. I always think of it. When I was
47:56
Speaker 4: going through all these things, I was like, why God,
47:58
Speaker 4: Why me? Why me? Why me? And I always tell
48:01
Speaker 4: people if you are going through and abuse, you are
48:03
Speaker 4: going through something you know in your life. I think
48:07
Speaker 4: the best thing to do, because obviously I'm not a
48:09
Speaker 4: therapist and I don't have all the right answers, just
48:12
Speaker 4: know that God does give you what you can handle.
48:15
Speaker 4: He won't give it to you if you can, and
48:17
Speaker 4: it will be a light at the end of the tunnel.
48:20
Speaker 4: I don't know when it is for that person, but
48:22
Speaker 4: there was a light at the end of the tunnel
48:24
Speaker 4: for me, and I have to say it was the
48:27
Speaker 4: best thing ever. It made me a strong person. It
48:30
Speaker 4: made me have confidence, It made me believe that I
48:33
Speaker 4: do have self worth. It made me understand that it
48:36
Speaker 4: doesn't fucking matter what people think. That's why I spoke.
48:39
Speaker 4: It took me so long to speak, and when I
48:42
Speaker 4: did speak, everyone was like, everyone's going to say this.
48:44
Speaker 4: Everyone's gonna say you're whore. Everyone's gonna say I'm like,
48:47
Speaker 4: I don't give a shit. I'm tired of living how
48:50
Speaker 4: other people want me to live. I'm done with that,
48:52
Speaker 4: and nobody should do that. Everyone needs to follow their heart.
48:56
Speaker 4: And I have come to a conclusion where I don't
48:59
Speaker 4: care about what people think about me. I am here
49:01
Speaker 4: to empower every person, man, woman, a boy, a girl.
49:06
Speaker 4: It doesn't matter what you are. Speak about your abuse,
49:08
Speaker 4: because it's not only for you, but this perpetrator, this
49:11
Speaker 4: person who's abusing you will continue to abuse, so you
49:14
Speaker 4: do need to speak about it. So I always always
49:17
Speaker 4: encourage girls, boys, men, women. Doesn't matter how old you are,
49:22
Speaker 4: it is your story is just as important as the
49:25
Speaker 4: survivors of Jeffrey Epstein.
49:28
Speaker 1: What a grateful way to end this. You are an
49:31
Speaker 1: incredible woman. I'm so grateful you came on an Unlikely Affair.
49:36
Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you always real lazy.
49:38
Speaker 2: You all get the justice that you deserve.
49:42
Speaker 4: We will continue to fight.
49:43
Speaker 2: That's going to happen, Yes, it will. Best day you guys.
49:48
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to another episode of an Unlikely Affair.
49:50
Speaker 1: We're going to catch you next week.
49:52
Speaker 3: Bye,