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Murder In Moscow: Bryan Kohberger And The April 9th Hearing · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. Over
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: the past few months, there has been a lot of
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: activity when it comes to the docket and Brian Koberger. Well,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: today he's headed back to court and there's going to
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: be an evidentiary hearing where a lot of the stuff
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: that's been discussed is going to be looked at by
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: the judge. And a lot of the topics at issue
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: are the filings that we've been going over for the
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: past few weeks. So now when you hear about all
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: this stuff in the evidentiary hearing, you're going to know
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: exactly what they're talking about because we've went over all
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: of these documents already. And whenever you have a complex
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: case like this, the more context you can have, the
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: better off you are, right? Because there's a lot of
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: evidence here. There's a lot going on, a lot of
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: moving parts, a lot of allegations, and certainly a lot
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: of rebuttals to those allegations that have been made by
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Brian Kohlberger and his team. And if you're not familiar
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: with the court documents, then you're not going to have
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: any idea what's going on inside of these hearings. So
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  Speaker 1: today we have an article from the Idaho Statesman and
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: the headline, Momentous Evidentiary Hearings Away Brian Kohlberger Ahead of
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Idaho Student Murder Trial. This article was authored by Kevin
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Fixler and Alex Brizzi. More than 170 legal filings with
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: considerable implications for trial in the University of Idaho student
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  Speaker 1: homicides case are set to near their resolution as defendant
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Brian Kohlberger returns to the courtroom on Wednesday. Since February,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: the prosecution and defense have traded more than a thousand
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: pages of court records over a variety of evidence. Each
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: side has postured to limit the way certain details may
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: be presented to a jury, while ensuring their own elements,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: including data and witness testimony, make the cut. And when
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: you talk about throwing everything, including the kitchen sink, at
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: the prosecution, that's what Brian Koberger's team has done from
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: the very beginning. And of course, that's because they know
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: they're up against it. We've talked about that from the
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: start here. When it comes to the evidence that has
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: been laid out against Brian Kohlberger, there is no doubt
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: that that evidence is strong as hell. And honestly, it
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: seems like every day that we learn something new, the
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: implications for Brian Kohlberger become more dire. I haven't seen
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: one bit of evidence that has been helpful for Brian Kohlberger,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: and the last time he had any kind of help
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: from the court was when he got the venue changed.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: But besides that, there's not really much here for Brian
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Kohlberger to celebrate. Judge Stephen Hippler has scheduled oral arguments
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: that could extend into Thursday to hear a final justification
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: for which evidence to include his decision on the so-called
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: motions in Limonet could prove to be the difference of
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: a conviction at Koberger's summer capital murder trial. And again,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: all of those motions in Limonet are going to be
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: very important later on down the road. That's why we've
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: added them all to the catalog as we move forward.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Because without that context, forget it. we would be absolutely lost. Koberger, 30,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: is accused of fatally stabbing four U of I undergraduates
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  Speaker 1: at an off-campus home in Moscow in November of 2022.
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  Speaker 1: He's charged with four counts of first-degree murder and prosecutors
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: intend to seek the death penalty if he's found guilty. Well, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: they should be seeking the death penalty. I mean, the
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: precedent has already been set in Idaho. Chad Daybell got
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: the death penalty, right? So I would say that Brian Koberger,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: if found guilty, deserves the same. The students were victims
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Madison Mogan of Coeur d'Alene, Kaylee Gonsalves of Rathdrum, Zanna
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  Speaker 1: Kernodle of Post Falls, and Ethan Chapin of Mount Vernon, Washington.
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  Speaker 1: The three women lived in the three-story home with two
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  Speaker 1: other female roommates who went physically unharmed while Chapin was
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Kernodle's boyfriend and slept over for the night. Among the
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: leading information the defense seeks to block at trial is
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: digital data from their client's Amazon account. And we all
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: know why they're trying to block that You want to
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: talk about damning? Imagine being charged with murder, and they
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: say that you used a K-Bar knife, and then they
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  Speaker 1: find information and receipts saying that you purchased that same
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  Speaker 1: kind of knife. Not looking good for you, is it?
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  Speaker 1: Then you add that lame-ass alibi to the mix, and
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  Speaker 1: I don't think that there's a jury on the planet
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  Speaker 1: that's going to buy what you're selling them. And that's
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: because all of it leads back to this K-Bar and
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  Speaker 1: the knife sheath. And the fact that his DNA was
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: on that knife sheath is a gigantic deal. Especially when
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  Speaker 1: you look at it in context with this other evidence.
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  Speaker 1: So his DNA is on the knife sheath of a
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  Speaker 1: knife he purchased on Amazon. Nothing to see here though, folks.
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  Speaker 1: Just a coincidence according to his team. And anyone in
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  Speaker 1: his house could have bought the knife in the sheath.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, it's more likely that Brian Kohlberger's mom was
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  Speaker 1: on there shopping for a K-Bar, right? That's going to
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  Speaker 1: be the narrative. That's what they're going to say. That
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  Speaker 1: there's no way that you can prove that it was
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  Speaker 1: Brian who bought that knife. on the Amazon account. And
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  Speaker 1: of course, the prosecution is going to say, well, the
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  Speaker 1: DNA might give us a few clues. The defense also
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: asked to exclude testimony of an Idaho State Police crime
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  Speaker 1: lab manager on behalf of the prosecution about the ways
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: in which so-called touch or contact DNA can arrive on
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: an item. Based on the defense's submitted expert witness list,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: prosecutors asserted Kohlberger's attorneys will argue at trial that the
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: sheath with Kohlberger's DNA was planted at the crime scene.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: That is some wild work. You're going to say that
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  Speaker 1: this sheath was planted and have nothing else to go on?
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  Speaker 1: How do you think that that's going to be admitted
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  Speaker 1: into the trial? You're going to have to have some
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  Speaker 1: kind of basis, right? You can't just say so-and-so did it.
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  Speaker 1: It wasn't me. There is no evidence pointing at anybody else.
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  Speaker 1: So who planted it and why? and so far we
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: haven't heard anything that even points us in that direction,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: but I guess that's the way they're going to go
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  Speaker 1: come trial time. The two sides are also expected to
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: square off over how text messages between two surviving roommates
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: and a 911 call made on one of their cell
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: phones factor into the state's time frame of the killings.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Transcripts of the early morning texts and audio of the
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  Speaker 1: 911 call were both publicly released for the first time
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: last month, and both the defense and prosecution reported have
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: picked over elements of the evidence to carve out pieces
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  Speaker 1: they would like to include at trial. In addition, whether
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: to allow specific testimony from one of the surviving roommates,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: who told police she saw a masked man in all
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: black in the home on the morning of the homicides,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: will play a central role during this week's hearings. The
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: roommate said she saw a man with bushy eyebrows, which
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: the defense argued jurors would believe directly identifies him as
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  Speaker 1: the perpetrator. The defense is going to fail here too.
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  Speaker 1: There's no way that the judge is going to bar
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  Speaker 1: one of the surviving roommates from giving testimony. I just
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  Speaker 1: don't see it happening. Now, her testimony, I don't think
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: is going to be that impactful as far as pure
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: evidence goes. But what it does is it ties up
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: a few loose ends and it also points to somebody
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  Speaker 1: who looks like Brian Kohlberger. So if that was all
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: the evidence they had, then I'd say their case was garbage.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: But that's not all the evidence they have, is it?
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  Speaker 1: And when you add all the evidence together here, that's
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: the big problem for Brian Kohlberger. It's not just one
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: piece of evidence, well, besides the sheath, but it's all
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  Speaker 1: the evidence together that's causing him the big problem. And
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  Speaker 1: unless he can find a way to get that sheath
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  Speaker 1: kept out of the trial, then I don't think Brian
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Kohlberger has a chance here to get off. Unless there
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: is some sort of egregious mistake made by the prosecution,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: which is always possible. But besides that, I don't see
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: Brian Kohlberger having any way out here. Led by Latah
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  Speaker 1: County Prosecutor Bill Thompson, prosecutors asked to place limits on
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  Speaker 1: an alibi defense previously submitted by Kohlberger that he was
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  Speaker 1: out driving alone at the time of the homicides outside
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  Speaker 1: of Moscow. They seek to force Kohlberger to testify to
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  Speaker 1: make such an argument, while the defense plans to provide
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  Speaker 1: partial corroboration from a cell phone data expert and rejects
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: that only their client, could speak about his whereabouts on
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: the stand at trial. Well, who else could speak about them?
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  Speaker 1: All of a sudden we should believe what the cell
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  Speaker 1: phone experts say, but not when the state is providing
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  Speaker 1: the evidence, only when it's Brian Koberger's expert. That's basically
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: what Ann Taylor is going to pitch, and I don't
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  Speaker 1: think it's going to work out so well for her,
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  Speaker 1: and certainly not for Brian Koberger. Hipler, a fourth judicial
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: judge in Ada County, also will take up arguments over
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: the possible use of a not-to-scale 3D model, of the
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: unconventional home where the victims died that prosecutors planned to
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  Speaker 1: use at trial, for illustrative purposes, the defense has objected,
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  Speaker 1: noting a lack of information about its design and sufficient
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  Speaker 1: time to review the exhibit ahead of trial four months out.
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  Speaker 1: You know what? Brian Kohlberger and his team can save
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  Speaker 1: it when it comes to the house. They could have
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: objected to the house being demolished. They didn't. They had
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: their chance. They had the ability to do so. And
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  Speaker 1: they went along with what's going on here. So I
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  Speaker 1: don't want to hear anything about, oh, well, we don't
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  Speaker 1: have a chance to look at the crime scene anymore.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: The house was torn down. All of you folks agreed
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: to it, including Brian Kohlberger. That's it. So what's left
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: is the model. Now, to be clear, I never thought
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: that the house should have been torn down. Not until
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: after the trial. Seemed pretty counterproductive to me. And I
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: knew that Brian Kohlberger and his team were going to
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: make a big deal out of it. But again, I
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: think this strategy is going to fall flat on its face,
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  Speaker 1: and that's because they had the ability to go through
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: the House previously, they had the ability to do everything
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  Speaker 1: that the prosecution did, and if they didn't do that,
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  Speaker 1: that's on them. The Latah County Prosecutor's Office denied a
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: public records request from the statesman for an image of
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  Speaker 1: the model, citing the active judge's gag order in the case.
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  Speaker 1: Release of the image could interfere with court proceedings. and
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: also jeopardize Kohlberger's right to a fair trial, the denial read.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: The defense again pushes to strike the death penalty. Defense
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: attorney Ann Taylor has filed two more attempts to remove
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: the death penalty as a possible sentencing option for Kohlberger
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: if a jury convicts him on the four murder charges
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: he faces. Hipler previously denied efforts to do so late
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: last year. And again, I don't think it's going to
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: be removed. The people of Idaho have spoken. And Judge
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Hipler has been pretty clear when he says that the
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: precedent has already been set. In one filing, Kohlberger's attorneys
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: argued that prosecutors have failed on several occasions to turn
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: over evidence to meet various deadlines through the legal process
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: known as discovery proceedings. As a penalty for repeat discovery
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: violations by the state, capital punishment was dropped in Lori
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Vallow Daybell's 2023 murder trial, which set a new precedent
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: the defense is now attempting to apply to Kohlberger's case.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Prosecutors in the high-profile case have flat-out denied that they
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: have missed discovery deadlines or that resulting delays mean the
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: defense lacks enough time to prepare for Kohlberger's trial, which
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: starts with jury selection in late July. Any contention that
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: the defendant has been prejudiced or does not have adequate
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: time to respond is wholly unsupported. Latah County Senior Deputy
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Prosecutor Ashley Jennings wrote, in an objection, The defense has
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: also asserted that their client is diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder,
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  Speaker 1: which should preclude the state from being able to seek
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: the death penalty for Kohlberger. The novel argument hopes to
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: expand on the U.S. Supreme Court's definition of intellectual disabilities
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: that prohibit a person convicted of murder from execution because
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: it would violate their 8th Amendment rights against cruel and
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: unusual punishment. What about the cruel and unusual punishment inflicted
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: on the victims? Because if Kohlberger is found guilty, I
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: don't really give a shit about the cruel and unusual
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: punishment that he thinks is coming his way. Because if
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: you're guilty of this heinous crime, then you're lucky it's
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: only the firing squad that you're getting. Because in my opinion,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: anyone that's capable of doing this deserves a much worse
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: fate than a firing squad. Colleen Berryessa, a criminal justice
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: professor at Rutgers University, told the statesman that while misconceptions
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: about autism aren't as pervasive as they once were, they
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: can be stigmatizing. In a criminal justice setting, they can
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: lead juries and judges and attorneys to believe someone might
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: not be able to control their behavior or be rehabilitated.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Such BS. Nobody's buying this. Who's buying this? Maybe if
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: you had, you know, non-functioning autism... Bro was a PhD candidate.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Graduated from college. Stop it. She pointed to Sandy Hook
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: shooter Adam Lanza and how his autism diagnosis led to
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: scapegoating of the disorder and non-neurotypical behavior. Given the nature
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: of the crime in Kohlberger's case, she added the prosecution
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: could amplify those negative stereotypes during his trial. If someone
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: already has assumptions or has stigmas towards people with autism
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: and they believe them to be violent, the fact that
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: he is on trial for such incredibly brutal crime, Berryessa
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: said in a phone interview, unfortunately, might just play that up.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Who thinks that people who have autism are violent? I
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: never even heard that before. That's crazy. Still legal experts
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: told the statesman they're skeptical of the defense strategy regarding
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Kohlberger's medical diagnosis. They're desperate to get the death penalty
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: off the table, Daniel Medwood, a criminal justice and law
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: professor at Northeastern University in Boston, said in a phone interview.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Koberger's autism may act as the defense entry point into
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: broadening the legal precedent that prohibits people with intellectual disabilities
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: from facing the death penalty, but Medwood said it's unlikely
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: they'll win that argument. The fact that he has autism
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: in and of itself is not going to be a
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: basis for withdrawing the death penalty, Medwood said, But there's
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: a strong possibility Koberger's right to a fair trial could
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: be impacted if the jury isn't informed about his autism
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: diagnosis and the way it affects him, said Rose Neville,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: a licensed clinical psychologist whose research focuses on enhancing evaluations
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: for people with autism. That could be a real bias
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: against him, which would be, of course, problematic, Neville said
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: by phone. Oh, give me a break. So basically what
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: they're all doing here is is laying the groundwork for
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: the conviction coming back as guilty, and then during the
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: appeal using all of this as the basis for that appeal.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to work out the way
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: they think it's going to work out. New attorneys added
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: for each side. Since Kohlberger's last appearance in late January,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: the defense and prosecution have both made changes to their
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: legal teams. The defense added San Francisco-based attorney Bicca Barlow,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: who has expertise in forensic DNA evidence cases, She replaced
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: North Idaho State Public Defender Jay Logsdon, who remained a
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: consultant for the defense, but not for trial, a February
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: filing read. Taylor and fellow defense attorney Elisa Massoff remain
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: as part of Kohlberger's defense team. Then, last week in
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: a court filing, former Idaho U.S. Attorney Josh Hurwit was
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: formally announced as a new member of the prosecution. State
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Deputy Attorney General Madison Allen also was named to the
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: team to assist with jury selection. So they're bolstering up
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: both sides, and they're bringing in experts who are well-versed
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: when it comes to the death penalty. So Jay Logsdon
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: is taking a step back, but you have Bicca Barlow
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: stepping in, and she's going to take over this portion.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: And as far as the prosecution goes, you have Hurwit
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: coming on, who is a former federal prosecutor, and then
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: they're also bringing in the state deputy attorney general, who's
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: going to help them out with jury selection. However, Madison
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Allen isn't going to be part of the actual trial,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: just going to be helping out with jury selection. Hurwit
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: agreed to the post last month with an April 1st
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: start date, according to the Latah County new hire form
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: obtained by the statesman through a public records request. Hurwit
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: is now the lowest paid attorney on the prosecution team,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: earning a prorated annual salary of just over $ 99, 000 after
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: he left the U.S. attorney role in February last In
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: that federal position, which he is appointed by the president,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: he was paid about $ 192, 000 per year. Thompson, who continues
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: to lead the prosecution, earns nearly $ 120, 000 in annual salary,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: while Jennings is paid about $ 104, 000 per year. The statesman
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: previously reported, Special Assistant Attorney General Jeff Nye, Chief of
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: the Criminal Division in the Idaho Attorney General's Office, and
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: also assigned to the case, has an annual salary of
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: about $ 170, 000. All are expected to be present at this
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: week's hearings before Hippler at the Ada County Courthouse in Boise.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Wednesday's hearing is set for 9 a.m. Mountain Time, as
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: is Thursday's if necessary, and both can be watched live
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: on the court's website. And obviously, we're going to be
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: watching this, and after we have the hearings wrap up
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: and we have some new information, we'll get that added
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: to the catalog as well. But until then, that's going
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: to do it for this one. All of the information
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: that goes with this episode... can be found in the
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: description box.