Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / After another solid week, can the Cardinals stack up against the Cubs?

Transcript

After another solid week, can the Cardinals stack up against the Cubs? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: The Cardinals go five and one on the week.
0:07
Speaker 2: They beat the Reds in the series, fall four to
0:10
Speaker 2: one today Sunday afternoon, but Andrew Abbott was exceptional like always.
0:15
Speaker 2: So all in all, a good week for the Cardinals,
0:17
Speaker 2: who have bounced back accordingly, just in time for a
0:20
Speaker 2: big NL Central showdown against their rivals, the Chicago Cubs.
0:24
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Cardinal territory, Katie and Bernie, back at
0:27
Speaker 2: you so. Full disclosure, I was not with the team
0:29
Speaker 2: again this weekend. Some weird scheduling going on, but I
0:32
Speaker 2: will be mostly back to normal starting tomorrow. I did
0:35
Speaker 2: watch both the games though, Saturday and Sunday, and I
0:39
Speaker 2: have to say, you know, some days you just get
0:41
Speaker 2: beat and you tip your cap to Andrew Abbott. He
0:43
Speaker 2: was exceptional all in Although I loved this week for
0:46
Speaker 2: the Cardinals, I thought they did exactly what they were
0:47
Speaker 2: supposed to do. Bernie, what about you?
0:49
Speaker 3: No, I'm with you. And the thing about it, we
0:51
Speaker 3: always talk about how this team competes and how it
0:53
Speaker 3: fights and how it battles and all that stuff, and
0:56
Speaker 3: they really had a battle for well the header in Chicago,
1:01
Speaker 3: they had a battle for like every inch of that
1:04
Speaker 3: to get two wins out of there, right, and then
1:08
Speaker 3: you know Friday Night's game that went over the Reds.
1:10
Speaker 3: You know, that was like a what was it? That
1:12
Speaker 3: was like a one nothing game going into the seventh
1:15
Speaker 3: inn that one could have gotten away. And then Saturday,
1:18
Speaker 3: which was just one of those Cardinals classics. They just
1:23
Speaker 3: keep having these crazy games. That was an incredible game,
1:26
Speaker 3: but obviously that one probably should have gone the other way.
1:30
Speaker 3: So they continue to win some games where it's, boy,
1:33
Speaker 3: it's hanging in the balance, it could easily slip away.
1:37
Speaker 3: Now during their bad stretch, they kind of did let
1:40
Speaker 3: that happen a little bit. But they've kind of buckled
1:41
Speaker 3: up again and they're winning these close games and they're
1:44
Speaker 3: making stuff happen, and they just won't stop coming at
1:48
Speaker 3: the other team. I mean just won't stop. And so
1:50
Speaker 3: they're kind of fun to watch. But yeah, a five
1:52
Speaker 3: to one record after that disastrous stretch they'd been through. Yeah,
1:57
Speaker 3: I think that's a good way to come out of
1:58
Speaker 3: the Milwaukee Series, all the stuff that happened before that,
2:02
Speaker 3: and now we look forward to the Cubs and Cardinals.
2:04
Speaker 3: It's nice in Major League Baseball to finally let these
2:06
Speaker 3: teams play, you know, eighty nine days.
2:09
Speaker 2: It's been eighty nine days of the season before the
2:11
Speaker 2: Cardinals and Cubs first meet, But I guess we'll make
2:14
Speaker 2: up for it because they are actually the last series
2:17
Speaker 2: of the regular season as well, three games at Wig
2:20
Speaker 2: League Game one sixty one, sixty one and one sixty two,
2:22
Speaker 2: So I guess it we'll all even out in the
2:25
Speaker 2: end on the drama scale. But I'm super excited to
2:27
Speaker 2: see what these Cardinals and Cubs. What this Cardinals and
2:30
Speaker 2: Cub series looks like. The good news about the loss
2:33
Speaker 2: for the Cardinals today is they didn't lose any ground
2:35
Speaker 2: in the NL central to the Cubs. They remained four
2:37
Speaker 2: and a half games out. A lot can change within
2:40
Speaker 2: the standings in a four game series as well, and
2:43
Speaker 2: it seems like the Cardinals should this is not official, well,
2:47
Speaker 2: he's going to start Tuesday, but they haven't said it.
2:49
Speaker 2: So I'm putting should we'll spot start Michael McGreevy on Tuesday,
2:53
Speaker 2: that we'll have Matthew Libertor start the series on Monday.
2:56
Speaker 2: Slot in McGreevy on June twenty fourth, which was the
2:58
Speaker 2: day he was eligible to be recalled from the from Memphis,
3:02
Speaker 2: and then should be Eric Betty on Wednesday Onject Planta.
3:06
Speaker 2: On Thursday on the Cubs side, we'll have a preview
3:08
Speaker 2: of this on the Athletic with our Cubs writers and
3:11
Speaker 2: Northside Territory host Patrick Mooney inside of us.
3:16
Speaker 1: Sorry I'm on fumes today.
3:18
Speaker 3: No, that's all right. No, they're great. The two guys
3:21
Speaker 3: that cover the Cubs for the Athletic outstanding, very awesome.
3:25
Speaker 3: They're understanding that. That'll be great. I can't wait to
3:28
Speaker 3: watch that.
3:28
Speaker 2: Yes, And and what side I wrote over the weekend
3:31
Speaker 2: is that Shoda is coming back. He's been on the
3:33
Speaker 2: interur list for about six weeks, so he should start
3:35
Speaker 2: either Wednesday or Thursday. So some good pitching matchups for
3:39
Speaker 2: the Cardinals and Cubs. I for one that I'm very
3:40
Speaker 2: excited to see Michael McGreevey. It just goes to show
3:43
Speaker 2: what happens on this podcast. When we demand something, it happens.
3:48
Speaker 2: So don't foubt our power here, isn't that right?
3:50
Speaker 3: Burning Yep, exactly. I think we've got a pretty good
3:54
Speaker 3: track record in in that that part, even going all
3:57
Speaker 3: the way back to we're saying no, no, no, no. Herrera's
4:01
Speaker 3: got to be the d H because he's the best
4:02
Speaker 3: bet you have so, and that Ali went along because
4:06
Speaker 3: he listened to us, of course, and I'm saying that
4:08
Speaker 3: a seasiously, but uh no, you know where everybody's banging
4:12
Speaker 3: on the McGreevy drum. You know, it's good. It's just
4:14
Speaker 3: good to see him getting another chance right away.
4:16
Speaker 4: And then.
4:19
Speaker 3: J C's up here. Uh, you did a good job
4:22
Speaker 3: breaking down in the athletic like what that meant that
4:24
Speaker 3: Herrera and injury and going on the I L and
4:27
Speaker 3: then s Jac coming up. So yeah, we're seeing uh,
4:30
Speaker 3: you know, we were you and I were talking about.
4:32
Speaker 3: Look Gorgon Doly. Gorman's improved his plate to something. He's
4:35
Speaker 3: got to play more. He has been playing more, uh
4:39
Speaker 3: not plug in and play. Ozzie's still pretty selective, but
4:44
Speaker 3: at least he's uh, I think at least Gorman's making
4:47
Speaker 3: some progress. And Jordan Walker hasn't since he came back
4:51
Speaker 3: when and he's sort of relapsed. So anyway, I didn't
4:54
Speaker 3: mean to go off in all these different areas, but yeah,
4:58
Speaker 3: it'll be good to see McGreevy, and it'll be good
4:59
Speaker 3: to the cubs are I think really smart organization would
5:02
Speaker 3: be really good to see if they've got to plan
5:04
Speaker 3: against them that maybe better than some other teams have
5:06
Speaker 3: had against them.
5:07
Speaker 2: And I wonder if this could be a statement not
5:09
Speaker 2: that he needs to make any more, but a statement
5:11
Speaker 2: performance for McGreevy, because it's clear the Cardinals line up
5:14
Speaker 2: their schedule dating back to the Dodgers spot start of
5:17
Speaker 2: when they could use McGreevy again, and they wanted him
5:19
Speaker 2: to pitch against Chicago because that just goes to show
5:22
Speaker 2: how important even in wow, we're almost late June, in
5:26
Speaker 2: late June, how important the series is for both teams.
5:29
Speaker 1: I mean, the Cardinals wanted one of their best arms
5:32
Speaker 1: to go against the Cups.
5:33
Speaker 2: The fact that one of their best arms is in
5:34
Speaker 2: triple A not great, as we discussed on the last episode,
5:38
Speaker 2: but this was something they've wanted to see. They love
5:40
Speaker 2: the way McGreevy attacks, how he keeps his composure. It's
5:43
Speaker 2: going to be a competitive series, and i'd like that
5:46
Speaker 2: they are turning to McGreevy here to take at least one.
5:49
Speaker 1: Of these starts. We'll see if he does well.
5:52
Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure what the Cardinals can do from there,
5:54
Speaker 2: because we've talked about the depth issues and you know,
5:57
Speaker 2: trying to keep the rotation healthy, maybe they use him
5:59
Speaker 2: one more time.
6:00
Speaker 1: We'll see.
6:01
Speaker 2: But anytime you carry a six man rotation, you lose
6:04
Speaker 2: a valuable spot in the bullpens.
6:05
Speaker 1: So lots to juggle here.
6:07
Speaker 2: But mcgreeby can help his own cause once again with
6:09
Speaker 2: a strong outing against the cubbies. So hopefully he does that.
6:13
Speaker 2: But vernon, you and I have some things to discuss, starting.
6:17
Speaker 1: With Yvonne Herrera. We have just one adread for.
6:19
Speaker 2: You all today, so we're back with you in sixty
6:21
Speaker 2: seconds after we hear from Arena Club, and then we'll
6:24
Speaker 2: talk about the Yvonne Herrera injury and what that means
6:27
Speaker 2: going forward, and most importantly, who should step up?
6:31
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6:35
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6:38
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6:43
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6:45
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6:48
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6:51
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6:54
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6:57
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7:01
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7:03
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7:06
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7:08
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7:11
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7:14
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7:17
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7:20
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7:34
Speaker 1: All right, So in case you missed it, you didn't.
7:37
Speaker 2: Yvonne Herrera hit the injured list for the second time
7:39
Speaker 2: this season ahead of Friday's game with a great two
7:42
Speaker 2: left hamstring strain. Cardinals gave a very big timeline two
7:47
Speaker 2: to six weeks when they first said that, I said,
7:51
Speaker 2: that's not a timeline.
7:52
Speaker 1: That's literally could mean anything, but.
7:54
Speaker 2: Based on every hamstring is different at the athletes different obviously,
7:57
Speaker 2: but based on the average recovery time looking at roughly
8:00
Speaker 2: about four to six weeks thought him on Herrera, So
8:03
Speaker 2: hopefully you know it's sooner than that it's but there's
8:06
Speaker 2: no doubt about it, Bernie. I mean, that's a devastating
8:08
Speaker 2: blow for Saint Louis's lineup. You lose your most impactful bat.
8:11
Speaker 2: What Herrera wasn't able to do offensively change the Cardinals season.
8:15
Speaker 2: So now you need some guys to step up, and
8:18
Speaker 2: we saw one already who looks poised to do so,
8:20
Speaker 2: mister Alec Burlison just continues to rake if you're gonna
8:23
Speaker 2: lose Herrera, but you get this version of Burlison playing
8:27
Speaker 2: every day.
8:28
Speaker 1: Well, I don't think you're losing that much.
8:30
Speaker 2: From an overall team offensive production standpoint.
8:33
Speaker 1: Of course, you wish it could be both. But if
8:35
Speaker 1: you're looking at guys to start.
8:36
Speaker 2: Carrying the weight without Herrera, I'm looking at Burleson and
8:39
Speaker 2: he's done a really nice job so far.
8:41
Speaker 3: He has, you know, and he has really been on
8:43
Speaker 3: a roll. I you know, it's easy to sort of
8:47
Speaker 3: it's an understandable thing to look just at recent stats
8:50
Speaker 3: because he's been really hot lately. But I started a
8:54
Speaker 3: little bit like starting late April because he went on
8:56
Speaker 3: a on a tear, like third week of April or so,
8:59
Speaker 3: and then I went back because I remember that date
9:02
Speaker 3: in my mind. April twenty second is when he started
9:05
Speaker 3: to hit okay because he was really bad early. So
9:08
Speaker 3: going into today and he had an O for today
9:11
Speaker 3: because Abbott was outstanding. But going into today, Alec Burlason
9:16
Speaker 3: was leading the National League in batting average since April
9:19
Speaker 3: the twenty second, that's two months ago. It was like
9:22
Speaker 3: a three forty six average and his slugging percentage was
9:25
Speaker 3: well into the five hundreds. It was something like five
9:28
Speaker 3: seventy or something like. He was, you know, like top
9:33
Speaker 3: six or seven in all these different hitting categories. So
9:36
Speaker 3: my point is it's like it's beyond like, oh, he's
9:39
Speaker 3: swinging really well. He's one of the best hitters in
9:41
Speaker 3: the National League over the last two months. So you
9:45
Speaker 3: have said this all along and you've kind of staked
9:48
Speaker 3: out the reporting position on this that you know Burlison
9:52
Speaker 3: has moved up ahead of Gorman in the pecking order,
9:55
Speaker 3: and there is not there now that Burlison is hitting
9:58
Speaker 3: left handed pitching what a bonus and he's good at it.
10:01
Speaker 3: I can't see really budgeting him out of the lineup,
10:04
Speaker 3: because you can't really even say, well, boy, he's hitting
10:07
Speaker 3: one to eighty against lefties, that's no longer the case.
10:10
Speaker 3: I think he's fine defensively done. Has he done anything
10:14
Speaker 3: defensively where you just go like, oh, you know, you know,
10:18
Speaker 3: shield your eyes, you know, it's no, it's not it's
10:22
Speaker 3: not graceful. But especially if he's in left fiet, well,
10:25
Speaker 3: if he's in the corner, I think his defense is
10:27
Speaker 3: fine for a guy hitting like that.
10:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, actually really good first baseman.
10:33
Speaker 2: And I know we said as a surprise, but that's
10:35
Speaker 2: the position he played growing up and in college, so
10:37
Speaker 2: that's really not that much of a surprise. We just
10:39
Speaker 2: haven't seen it very often because the Cardinals have had
10:42
Speaker 2: Paul golschmid Wilson Conturis at first base. So when Burlson's
10:45
Speaker 2: at first, he's very solidfensive first baseman, and he's gotten
10:49
Speaker 2: better in the outfield. But it's a good point because
10:51
Speaker 2: we get so caught up defensively on this team, and
10:53
Speaker 2: rightfully so, because their defense really injured them for the
10:56
Speaker 2: first ten weeks of the season. But Alec Burlson has
10:59
Speaker 2: made strides defensively, and you know, is ride around league
11:02
Speaker 2: average maybe a little lower, sure, but what he's doing
11:07
Speaker 2: with the bat more than may For how many corner
11:10
Speaker 2: outfielders do you know around this fall that have slugged
11:12
Speaker 2: their way into their position at in the batter's box,
11:15
Speaker 2: not from the fence. And if we want to put
11:17
Speaker 2: Alec Gurlson in that, I'm totally fine with it.
11:20
Speaker 1: I talked to Ollie Marmel on Friday that one day
11:22
Speaker 1: this week that I have.
11:23
Speaker 2: To work about what he was going to do with
11:27
Speaker 2: Herrera out indefinitely, Thomas, the Jac up Memphis, and how
11:31
Speaker 2: he was.
11:31
Speaker 1: Going to balance the plane time.
11:33
Speaker 2: So Jayce's going to be the bench piece, right, and
11:36
Speaker 2: that's not to say that he won't start. Something you
11:38
Speaker 2: saw today, he'll get the start against the lefty, you know,
11:40
Speaker 2: Andrew Abbott. That's probably a good guy to sit new
11:43
Speaker 2: bar Scott and Gorman. Again, the fact that Burleson, to
11:46
Speaker 2: your point, got the start today, I think speaks to
11:48
Speaker 2: where he is in the pecking order as well. But
11:51
Speaker 2: so Jac will be the bench dep then you can
11:53
Speaker 2: give different guys different days off because he's versatile in
11:56
Speaker 2: the infield. And Olie Marmele said that he wants to
12:00
Speaker 2: give the guys that had been here already the opportunities.
12:02
Speaker 2: So he's referring to Gorman and Burleson the exact quote.
12:06
Speaker 2: The priority is the guys that have been here more
12:08
Speaker 2: so than the guy who's getting here. An opportunity in
12:11
Speaker 2: an undesirable way has presented itself, But I think the
12:14
Speaker 2: guys that have been waiting for their opportunities.
12:15
Speaker 1: Should get it.
12:17
Speaker 2: And I think Burleson over Gorman right now is going
12:19
Speaker 2: to see more playing time. There is a way still
12:22
Speaker 2: to play Nolan Gorman and Alc Burlson, Jordan Walker almost
12:25
Speaker 2: every day one of them is going to sit given
12:28
Speaker 2: the game. That's just the nature of the lineup. But
12:30
Speaker 2: there's a way to do it where you can maximize
12:32
Speaker 2: the matchups and what the probability with the odds are
12:35
Speaker 2: so that everyone's getting some rest and it's put in
12:38
Speaker 2: the best possible way to succeed. I think Allie Marvel
12:40
Speaker 2: and Daniel scalso have done a nice job doing so.
12:43
Speaker 1: But I'm with you.
12:44
Speaker 2: I think as much as I would like to see
12:45
Speaker 2: Gorman play every day, if you're going to play a
12:47
Speaker 2: lefty regardless of handonness, every day based on how he's
12:50
Speaker 2: hitting the ball right now it's Alec Burlison, and for
12:53
Speaker 2: a long time there was some reluctancy to pitch him
12:55
Speaker 2: or to hit him against lefty pitchers, and I got it.
12:58
Speaker 2: The Major League stat line did not back it up.
13:00
Speaker 2: But like you correctly pointed out, Bernie, it's been a
13:02
Speaker 2: lot better. I asked Allie about that as well, if
13:06
Speaker 2: it's easier to play these two or now that they're
13:09
Speaker 2: hitting well, and there's any kind of vlucancy or hesitancy
13:12
Speaker 2: to have such a lefty heavy lineup, and Alis said
13:15
Speaker 2: that Gorman has shown over time that he can handle lefties.
13:17
Speaker 2: It's more so if his swing is right when he's
13:20
Speaker 2: feeling good. I don't think it's a matter of handedness.
13:22
Speaker 2: Where Burlison is showing us that he can stay in
13:24
Speaker 2: there really well against lefties right now.
13:27
Speaker 1: And if he's showing that, keep playing.
13:28
Speaker 3: Him right and with Herrera out, there's going to be
13:33
Speaker 3: plenty of room to play Gorman more. You know, I'm
13:37
Speaker 3: not going to say every day, because we just talked
13:38
Speaker 3: about that. He won't play every day, but he should
13:41
Speaker 3: be fairly regular in the lineup with as long as
13:43
Speaker 3: Herrera is out. And I think it's interesting too with
13:49
Speaker 3: Burlison being as outstanding as he's been for the last
13:53
Speaker 3: two months and his ability to hit lefties. You know,
13:58
Speaker 3: I wonder what the that does for their overall outfield production,
14:02
Speaker 3: because it's not good if you take not and this
14:05
Speaker 3: doesn't count guys that have played multiple positions. It's just
14:08
Speaker 3: outfield production, guys actually playing the game in the lineup
14:12
Speaker 3: as an outfielder. And the Cardinals offense has been out
14:15
Speaker 3: of the outfield's been really mediocre, really, I mean, way
14:19
Speaker 3: below average, I would say, And so they have a
14:22
Speaker 3: situation now if the playing time is going to be
14:24
Speaker 3: more of an earned thing based on results, you know,
14:30
Speaker 3: conceivably you can see Newt bar and left a lot,
14:33
Speaker 3: and Burlison in right field a lot, or vice versa,
14:37
Speaker 3: and they have to stick with Victor Scott in center field.
14:41
Speaker 3: They need his defense. But it could mean it could
14:44
Speaker 3: mean less time for Jordan Walker, for example. And we
14:48
Speaker 3: don't have to jump the gun on that, but I'm
14:49
Speaker 3: just saying, since he came back off the IL, I
14:53
Speaker 3: think he's two for eighteen. He doesn't look at it
14:55
Speaker 3: the plate. So when you have all these good choices,
14:59
Speaker 3: it's an interest situation. When you have all these good choices, like, well,
15:03
Speaker 3: how would you rate him about?
15:04
Speaker 1: Okay? Right?
15:06
Speaker 3: All right? This guy, like, if I'm going to put
15:08
Speaker 3: him in order, who belongs in the line up more often? Right?
15:11
Speaker 3: You know, there's I think there'd be a few guys
15:13
Speaker 3: ahead of Walker, but we'll see what happens there because
15:16
Speaker 3: they're obviously this runway season was designed for him in
15:20
Speaker 3: Gorman primarily so. But at some point you got to
15:23
Speaker 3: hit right.
15:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you and I are in the same
15:25
Speaker 1: boat right now. We're not yet ready to have.
15:27
Speaker 2: A deeper discussion on Jordan Walker because it's only been
15:30
Speaker 2: you know, a week and a half since heason back
15:31
Speaker 2: from the IL. But at some point you are going
15:34
Speaker 2: to have to start weighing, especially if the Cardinals keep
15:36
Speaker 2: up their play where they are contenders, which is more
15:39
Speaker 2: more important runway or results? And again, you and I
15:42
Speaker 2: are not yet there on Jordan Walker, but I think
15:44
Speaker 2: we will both be monitoring his player over the next
15:46
Speaker 2: week or so. I for me, have set a deadline
15:50
Speaker 2: of the first game in Pittsburgh I believe is June
15:53
Speaker 2: threieth and Monday. If the Cardinals are still they still
15:57
Speaker 2: look like they're going to be contenders in the division,
15:59
Speaker 2: because right now they still they could contend for the division,
16:01
Speaker 2: and who knows, things will get crazy over the next
16:03
Speaker 2: four days, and maybe we're having an entirely different conversation
16:05
Speaker 2: if they're eight and a half kars out. But on
16:08
Speaker 2: June twenty ninth, if the Cardinals are still in play
16:10
Speaker 2: for the division, I think the focus should turn to results.
16:14
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying totally skip the runway, not at all.
16:17
Speaker 2: That's not the point of the season, but I would
16:19
Speaker 2: it's the exact opposite. Actually, when I say turn to results,
16:22
Speaker 2: it means play the players, the young players that are
16:25
Speaker 2: performing right now, regardless of who you identified as your
16:29
Speaker 2: top priorities at the start of the season. Because this
16:31
Speaker 2: runway season still applies to guys like Alec Burlison, This
16:36
Speaker 2: runway season still applies to Lars Newbar. So if these
16:40
Speaker 2: guys are and new Bar looks a lot better lately,
16:43
Speaker 2: if these guys are the players that are performing, and
16:45
Speaker 2: we talked about this with Herrera too before he went
16:47
Speaker 2: on the IL, you can still accomplish the runway season,
16:50
Speaker 2: just with different players. So I'm not quite there yet.
16:53
Speaker 2: Have this discussion to get around this time next week,
16:56
Speaker 2: But for so many reasons. I'm looking at this CUB
16:58
Speaker 2: series and then what the Cardinals do against a very
17:00
Speaker 2: good Cleveland team over the weekend before, which should be
17:04
Speaker 2: a crazy month. I can't believe it's almost July, Bernie.
17:07
Speaker 2: Are you ready to be just bombarded with trade deadline
17:09
Speaker 2: overload for the next four weeks.
17:11
Speaker 3: It's been going on, well, it's been NonStop.
17:14
Speaker 1: It.
17:14
Speaker 3: Whatever is above the level that you would have at
17:17
Speaker 3: the top where you just say, okay, this is the
17:19
Speaker 3: insanity level. Whatever's higher than insanity level, that's where it'll go. Yeah,
17:23
Speaker 3: for sure, I'm not for sure. Hey, I wanted to
17:26
Speaker 3: ask you a question because this very much is relevant,
17:28
Speaker 3: although Avon Herrera is not going to be in the
17:30
Speaker 3: picture for a few weeks at least. But there's been
17:34
Speaker 3: a pushback. I've noticed, like Cardinal media talking about people
17:37
Speaker 3: that I actually respect, who writes stuff on the Cardinals
17:41
Speaker 3: blogs and whatnot, and there's been a big this is
17:44
Speaker 3: an interesting thing said listen, no, no, no, no. You
17:47
Speaker 3: know they're not getting any offense out of Catcher, and
17:50
Speaker 3: you know people are pointing out all the pass balls,
17:54
Speaker 3: all the wild pitches, all the bad blocking metrics for
17:58
Speaker 3: Pahes and Pozo and they're saying, and look, when he
18:01
Speaker 3: gets back, von Herres got to be the catcher. You've
18:04
Speaker 3: got to play him at catcher, and then it frees
18:06
Speaker 3: it up for these other guys. Ali would have more
18:09
Speaker 3: flexibility at DH and all this other stuff. Now, you
18:12
Speaker 3: could make a baseball argument if you want to do that.
18:15
Speaker 3: You could make a baseball argument, right, And I do
18:17
Speaker 3: agree that I'm a little surprised by how sloppy those
18:20
Speaker 3: other two guys are behind the plate as far as
18:23
Speaker 3: you know, just not getting their middle and stuff that
18:25
Speaker 3: they should get their mid on. But here's what they
18:28
Speaker 3: don't understand. I'm a big believer, and you make your point,
18:31
Speaker 3: you make your case. But if a manager is absolutely
18:37
Speaker 3: determined and he is not even considering removing Pahes as
18:43
Speaker 3: the regular catcher because of the way he handles the
18:46
Speaker 3: pitching staff and the way he runs a game and
18:48
Speaker 3: his pitch selection and all this stuff, you know we
18:51
Speaker 3: can all talk about from a baseball standpoint, well you
18:56
Speaker 3: ought to do this. You know, if the manager is
18:59
Speaker 3: a one hundred percent committed to Pa, you're wasting your
19:02
Speaker 3: breath and you're wasting your fingers type and stuff like this.
19:05
Speaker 3: And I'm not saying that to demean anybody, But I'm
19:08
Speaker 3: just saying this. I don't think it's going to happen. Now.
19:10
Speaker 3: Do you think it could happen where he would in
19:12
Speaker 3: fact catch more when he comes back.
19:16
Speaker 1: I don't.
19:19
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm a little bit surprised about Pause defensively
19:22
Speaker 2: lately because I thought he'd made strides earlier in the season,
19:25
Speaker 2: and he's never been like an all star defensive catcher.
19:28
Speaker 2: But what sets him apart from Herrera and Posa, which
19:31
Speaker 2: quick shout out to pose we're gonna get him later
19:33
Speaker 2: on the episode, Yeah, don't let me forget. But what
19:36
Speaker 2: sets him apart is his game calling and his preparation.
19:39
Speaker 2: The game calling situation and the preparation and knowing your
19:42
Speaker 2: pictures is where Pedro shines. And there's not a good
19:46
Speaker 2: stat that I can send Cardinals fans to go look up.
19:49
Speaker 1: It doesn't exist.
19:50
Speaker 2: I have to go based off what every picture in
19:52
Speaker 2: that clubhouse has told me about how much they enjoy
19:55
Speaker 2: throwing the Pedro, and what the coaching staff has said.
19:59
Speaker 1: With Dusty Blake, I said, Olie marmal and I trust
20:02
Speaker 1: those conversations.
20:03
Speaker 2: I'm not in the dugout obviously to see what Pedro
20:07
Speaker 2: does for each call or.
20:08
Speaker 1: How he commands the game. But when you look at.
20:10
Speaker 2: How this rotation has overperformed, a lot of it is
20:14
Speaker 2: health and monitoring schedule, as we've talked about all year,
20:17
Speaker 2: but a lot of it is also trusting your capture.
20:19
Speaker 1: And they really trust Pedro.
20:21
Speaker 2: So that's why you're going to see him out there
20:25
Speaker 2: behind the plate continuously.
20:27
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure Herrera is going to get that
20:29
Speaker 1: opportunity again the season.
20:31
Speaker 2: He'll still catch a little bit because the Cardinals would
20:32
Speaker 2: like to see what he could do. But it reminds
20:34
Speaker 2: me of a conversation we had on Friday, and I'm
20:35
Speaker 2: looking at the transcript right now because i want to
20:38
Speaker 2: make sure I get it right. Randy Carricker or pal
20:42
Speaker 2: at STL sports Hub asked a really good question to
20:45
Speaker 2: Ali on if there was any chance that a couple
20:48
Speaker 2: of guys, but namely.
20:49
Speaker 1: Herrera, would change positions over the off season.
20:52
Speaker 2: And let me pull it up just so I see
20:56
Speaker 2: what I'm at Ollie has said.
20:59
Speaker 1: We've toyed with it.
21:00
Speaker 2: I think there's a bigger discussion there as far as
21:02
Speaker 2: what's coming and what makes the most sense big picture.
21:05
Speaker 2: I think that's something there should be a real conversation
21:07
Speaker 2: around h But so they're not one hundred percent committed.
21:12
Speaker 2: But I'm now I'm paraphrasing to be clear, not there yet.
21:17
Speaker 1: They're not there.
21:17
Speaker 2: Yet with Herrera, and I think they want to see
21:19
Speaker 2: if there's anything they can fix in season before they
21:21
Speaker 2: have a bigger, maybe possible potential position change over the
21:26
Speaker 2: off season. Because if that's what you're going to ask
21:27
Speaker 2: a player to do, that's an off season task. That's
21:29
Speaker 2: not a hay middle of the season. Same with what
21:32
Speaker 2: they did with Contraras was the right way to do it.
21:34
Speaker 2: So I'm not sure if we'll see Herrera more consistently.
21:37
Speaker 2: I think it will be pahes depending on when Herrera
21:40
Speaker 2: comes back, depending on health for the reasons we just mentioned.
21:44
Speaker 2: And I think it is fair to question Herrera's a
21:45
Speaker 2: long term feasibility as a catcher because the Cardinals are
21:49
Speaker 2: tinted over all.
21:50
Speaker 3: Right, I got on stat Now, I'm not saying that
21:53
Speaker 3: catcher era is the end all be all, Okay, I
21:57
Speaker 3: think it can be very misleading, but I think I
22:00
Speaker 3: think in this case it's not misleading because we see,
22:04
Speaker 3: we know things that other people don't know who are
22:06
Speaker 3: just like randomly looking at the stat. You know, I
22:09
Speaker 3: shouldn't say we, you know, because you've done so. It's
22:12
Speaker 3: great reporting on this. The pitchers really believe they benefit
22:17
Speaker 3: from having pa Haes behind the plate, and if the
22:20
Speaker 3: Cardinals don't pitch well, the Cardinals are pretty much doomed.
22:24
Speaker 3: Right so in that case, because they believe in him,
22:28
Speaker 3: they trust him. He calls a great game, he knows
22:31
Speaker 3: how to get guys straightened out in the middle of
22:33
Speaker 3: a game. He's a leader out there right all right.
22:37
Speaker 3: Catcher era this season, this does not include today Herrera
22:41
Speaker 3: five point six', One pozo four point four, Zero pahes
22:47
Speaker 3: three point nine to. Six that's a pretty big, difference
22:52
Speaker 3: even Though i'm Saying i'm not saying it's like the perfect,
22:55
Speaker 3: stat But i've been checking on this one, steadily and
22:59
Speaker 3: it's like there is a gap between him and the
23:01
Speaker 3: other two, guys especially here. Error you can't dismiss that
23:04
Speaker 3: as like some kind of. JUNKSTA i don't think it
23:07
Speaker 3: is not when we know very well how deeply the
23:11
Speaker 3: pictures and the manager and the pitching coach feel About
23:14
Speaker 3: pahes being an asset behind the, plate and It i'm
23:19
Speaker 3: not going to say they don't care about his blocking,
23:21
Speaker 3: ability but the impact he has on the, pictures which
23:25
Speaker 3: is a huge, deal, RIGHT.
23:27
Speaker 1: I, mean do we not learn that from two?
23:29
Speaker 2: Decades if you out Here molina having a Trust And
23:31
Speaker 2: i'm not hiring the, two to be very, Clear i'm
23:34
Speaker 2: just saying that the relationship with pitcher to capture, matters
23:37
Speaker 2: and while our comparings, does why don't you go ahead
23:39
Speaker 2: and compare the cots stealing between the. Two i'm just.
23:41
Speaker 1: Kidding we don't need to do.
23:42
Speaker 3: That, yeah we. PROBABLY i Know Pa hayes is still
23:45
Speaker 3: above the major league average for throwout right it, is
23:48
Speaker 3: so you, know he's an asset that way. Too but,
23:51
Speaker 3: yeah i'd like to see them be able to clean
23:53
Speaker 3: it up a little. Bit but you, know And i've
23:56
Speaker 3: come to really admire pahes even THOUGH i realize he's
23:59
Speaker 3: not going to hit all that. Much but, again it's
24:02
Speaker 3: essential that this pitching staff performed to whatever their optimum.
24:05
Speaker 3: Is it's really essential that they do. That and if
24:09
Speaker 3: there's a catcher behind the plate that gives brings out
24:12
Speaker 3: the best in that, Staff i'm, sorry you got to
24:16
Speaker 3: ride it. Out you just have.
24:17
Speaker 1: To AND i think that's what they're gonna.
24:19
Speaker 2: Do and when you think about the depth The cardinals
24:20
Speaker 2: have at catcher, position like the one area in their
24:23
Speaker 2: entire organization they have like a ton of encouraging, depth it's.
24:27
Speaker 2: Catcher it makes sense to just kind of ride the
24:30
Speaker 2: season out with the three that you have and, over you,
24:32
Speaker 2: know evaluate over the. Winter that's a hind bloom decision
24:35
Speaker 2: on what the next future of the backstops look.
24:38
Speaker 1: Like BUT i do think we should Give poso some credit.
24:40
Speaker 2: Here for, me, obviously the big walk off hit On
24:43
Speaker 2: saturday and.
24:45
Speaker 1: Just just the most adorable Celebration i've ever.
24:47
Speaker 2: Seen but if you would have told me in the
24:49
Speaker 2: middle Of february That Joel poso would be your most
24:54
Speaker 2: impactful right handed bat off the, BENCH i would have,
24:56
Speaker 2: said who the hell is? That because everyone on the
24:59
Speaker 2: roster or in the organization Until, march and he was
25:02
Speaker 2: very much just signed as an emergency Because Jimmy crooks
25:05
Speaker 2: they didn't think was ready a lot of the stuff
25:07
Speaker 2: that we talked, about you, know not yet quite major league.
25:10
Speaker 2: Ready so they signed kind of a stopgap solution In
25:12
Speaker 2: poso and he was so far down on the. Depth,
25:16
Speaker 2: well they liked, him you, know he didn't he didn't
25:18
Speaker 2: even crack my Like top forty to watch in the
25:21
Speaker 2: organization shows how MUCH i. Know once again we're learning
25:24
Speaker 2: from this. PODCAST i don't know anything because here he is,
25:27
Speaker 2: now and he is indeed your best right handed bat
25:29
Speaker 2: off the, bench even with THE jc here if you're looking.
25:32
Speaker 1: For power and.
25:33
Speaker 2: CONTACT i, mean, Look poso doesn't mean to go to hitters.
25:36
Speaker 2: Meetings they probably are just, like you can take this one.
25:39
Speaker 1: Off you know that you can put the ball in.
25:41
Speaker 1: Play and a good team has a team of role.
25:44
Speaker 2: Players and there's been a lot of clamor rightfully so
25:47
Speaker 2: about The cardinals bench And i'm not saying it's, perfect
25:50
Speaker 2: but if you're looking for a right handed bat off
25:52
Speaker 2: the bench is going to put the ball in.
25:53
Speaker 1: Play they have found that consistently In. Poso it was
25:55
Speaker 1: really nice to see.
25:56
Speaker 2: Him get rewarded On saturday's walk off when he's done
25:59
Speaker 2: a nice.
25:59
Speaker 3: Job when he when he comes off the, bench, right
26:03
Speaker 3: there's nothing to do with him starting when he enters
26:06
Speaker 3: a game as a. Substitute, right he's hitting four fifty.
26:10
Speaker 3: Five that's pretty good and so and that's that's that's
26:14
Speaker 3: up the date because he started, today so it doesn't
26:16
Speaker 3: apply to. Today four fifty, five and he's driven in
26:21
Speaker 3: like like leven or twelve at, bats he's driven in
26:24
Speaker 3: like five. RUNS i mean he's again it's a small,
26:27
Speaker 3: sample but that's all we have to work. With because
26:29
Speaker 3: but but because it's a very narrow thing we're looking. At,
26:32
Speaker 3: okay what does he mean to The cardinals as a
26:36
Speaker 3: guy who can come off the bench and get a, hit,
26:39
Speaker 3: right and you trust them to just not swing and
26:43
Speaker 3: miss and just put the ball in. Play he's hitting
26:45
Speaker 3: four fifty five when he comes off the bench and
26:47
Speaker 3: enters a. GAME i, mean he's the best like role
26:51
Speaker 3: player they.
26:52
Speaker 1: Have, agree and he's your third, catcher.
26:55
Speaker 3: Right so, YEAH i mean this whole, IDEA i know it.
27:00
Speaker 3: Again i'm going back to this a minute BECAUSE i
27:01
Speaker 3: see people, saying, well you, know Like poso's, great but
27:04
Speaker 3: you know you really it's you really shouldn't be, kept you,
27:07
Speaker 3: know carrying three. Catchers So Herre herrera and Pa, HAES
27:12
Speaker 3: i guess is what they're, Saying, No, poso because your
27:16
Speaker 3: bench is so. Weak his strength as a bench player
27:20
Speaker 3: demands that he stay here because who else would fulfill that?
27:23
Speaker 3: Role right.
27:24
Speaker 1: Exactly that's a great way to put. It AND i
27:26
Speaker 1: think that makes a ton of sense when you put
27:27
Speaker 1: it that.
27:27
Speaker 2: Way, yes his position is, catcher, yes and technicality, standpoint
27:31
Speaker 2: The cardinals have three maybe even, four But.
27:34
Speaker 1: Contraras's is very clearly not a catcher.
27:35
Speaker 2: Anymore, Right but if you're talking about role play like and,
27:39
Speaker 2: usage if you have a right handed, bench bet that's
27:42
Speaker 2: seeing four fifty five perfect take.
27:45
Speaker 1: IT i don't care any plays case.
27:48
Speaker 3: Close we rest our case.
27:49
Speaker 2: Exactly so all, Right bernie will wrap this one up
27:52
Speaker 2: here because there's just so much fun baseball ahead of.
27:55
Speaker 2: Us LIKE i said, Earlier Cardinal Territory Northside territory crossover
27:58
Speaker 2: that will be On. Tuesday just a lot going on
28:01
Speaker 2: travel from both, ends so we couldn't get that Up.
28:04
Speaker 2: Tomorrow we'll have Some Cardinals cubs preview in the athletic as. Well,
28:08
Speaker 2: bernie what do you have working?
28:09
Speaker 3: On just know my useral. Daily you know WHAT i
28:14
Speaker 3: do every, day which is a. Lot, no JUST i
28:16
Speaker 3: can't wait to watch the. Series AND i don't know
28:18
Speaker 3: if The cardinals get a split or you, KNOW i
28:22
Speaker 3: think it splits, Reasonable But i'm not settling the. Fort
28:25
Speaker 3: by the, way let me just do this real. Quick
28:27
Speaker 3: my good friend Will leach is out with a. Book
28:30
Speaker 3: who in this book is getting rave. Reviews in, fact
28:33
Speaker 3: it's going to be turned into a, film A hollywood.
28:35
Speaker 3: Film oh, Yeah Look lloyd McNeil's last. Ride and the
28:40
Speaker 3: only Reason i'm plugging this because he's My Seeing red
28:43
Speaker 3: podcast partner and he writes for. Everybody you. Know you
28:48
Speaker 3: see him pop up ON mlb network a lot. Too
28:52
Speaker 3: he's going to be At Left Bank books in The
28:54
Speaker 3: Central West end On thursday, night is after the Day,
28:56
Speaker 3: game at seven, o'clock And i'm sort of the host
29:00
Speaker 3: of the, event and we've been joking so, well you,
29:04
Speaker 3: know people are going to ask even though your book's
29:06
Speaker 3: getting grave, reviews no one's gonna want how many people
29:08
Speaker 3: want to ask you about your? Book like three. People
29:10
Speaker 3: they're gonna ask about The cardinals and The. Cubs so,
29:12
Speaker 3: anyway for people in The Saint louis area who might
29:16
Speaker 3: be interested in coming down and Meeting will and getting a,
29:18
Speaker 3: book the book is. Unbelievable i'm not just saying that
29:22
Speaker 3: because he's my. Friend it is. Great they had they
29:26
Speaker 3: had they had like Five hollywood studios fighting over this
29:30
Speaker 3: for the film.
29:31
Speaker 2: Rights so Now i'm super excited Because i'm A central
29:34
Speaker 2: West End girl And Left Bank books is my favorite
29:36
Speaker 2: bookstore in, town SO i will try my best to
29:39
Speaker 2: get there because that sounds.
29:41
Speaker 3: Great he's a he's a huge fan of, You, Katie
29:44
Speaker 3: will he.
29:44
Speaker 2: Run i'm a huge fan of you And, will So
29:46
Speaker 2: i'm glad we can all be friends and.
29:48
Speaker 1: Coexist, well thanks for.
29:49
Speaker 3: Letting me plug, that but it was still a good
29:51
Speaker 3: reason because we're making an.
29:52
Speaker 1: Appearance, yeah ten out of ten would. Recommend and NOW
29:55
Speaker 1: i don't have a new book to, buy so that's.
29:56
Speaker 2: Exciting what else is Exciting the cub is finally coming
29:59
Speaker 2: to four.
30:01
Speaker 1: Games i'm with, You.
30:02
Speaker 2: BERNIE a split is not the end of the, world but,
30:04
Speaker 2: Personally i'm not settling for. It if they, split like,
30:06
Speaker 2: okay cool could be a lot, worse, obviously but taking
30:10
Speaker 2: three or four From chicago would do wonders from. Morale
30:12
Speaker 2: and then we're having a serious conversation about this team
30:15
Speaker 2: heading Into, july which will be an insane month no matter.
30:19
Speaker 1: What direction it.
30:21
Speaker 2: Goes so let's look forward to here In Cardinals. Land
30:23
Speaker 2: we'll break it all down for you At Cardinal. Territory For,
30:25
Speaker 2: Bernie I'm. Katie thanks for. Watching we'll talk next.
30:28
Speaker 3: Week