Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Interview Only w/ Yaron Weitzman - The Dreams & Drama Of The LeBron Lakers

Transcript

Interview Only w/ Yaron Weitzman - The Dreams & Drama Of The LeBron Lakers · The Chuck ToddCast

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  Speaker 1: insurance is something you should really think about it, especially
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  Speaker 1: if you've got a growing family. So, as many of
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  Speaker 1: you know, I'm as a huge sports fan, even worked
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: in the briefly helped found a publication focused on sports.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: I'm always obsessed with the nexus of sports culture politics
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  Speaker 1: in general. Obviously, I think many of us now realize
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  Speaker 1: politics is downstream from culture as it is. I also
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: am a huge believer that sports is something that actually
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: is a way to knit the country's polarized communities back together,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: particularly on the local level. I still think it's the
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  Speaker 1: answer on local news. I say all that as my
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  Speaker 1: way of trying to give all of us the excuse
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  Speaker 1: who are focused on the political world every now and
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  Speaker 1: then to focus on my next guest. It's your own Weitzman.
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  Speaker 1: He's author of a new book called Hollywood Ending. It's
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  Speaker 1: the Dreams and Drama of the Lebron Lakers. And yes,
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  Speaker 1: it's going to be a bit about the drama of
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  Speaker 1: all things having to do with the Lakers, basketball, Lebron.
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  Speaker 1: But I think we all it's fair to say Lebron
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  Speaker 1: is part of the larger zeitgeist of America and perhaps
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: the same way Taylor Swift is part of the zeitgeist
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  Speaker 1: of America. People do want to know what does Lebron
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  Speaker 1: think about Donald Trump?
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  Speaker 2: Right?
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  Speaker 1: Type of thing? And oh, by the way, what does
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  Speaker 1: Lebron think about Michael Jordan? Right? And in that sense,
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  Speaker 1: that is sort of the world we live in. And
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: that's part of my goal of this podcast is to
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  Speaker 1: sort of always have an aperture that's wide enough to
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  Speaker 1: include all aspects of that. So there's my rationale and
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: excuse for taking a break your own.
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  Speaker 3: It's good to meet you. You too, you too. I
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  Speaker 3: love you know, I like that You're making me feel
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  Speaker 3: better about myself.
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  Speaker 2: So there you go. Thank you well.
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  Speaker 1: You pitched Look, you pitched me on this and you
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  Speaker 1: did probably say it's a lot, but I have. I've
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  Speaker 1: always been you know, I know a lot of people
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  Speaker 1: know that that follow me through politics, know that that, uh,
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  Speaker 1: you know, a better than average sports fan is how
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  Speaker 1: I'd like to present myself. That I'm not a I'm
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  Speaker 1: not a moron about it, and I do have strong
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  Speaker 1: feelings about it, but I am. I love the culture
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  Speaker 1: and if if I could have trade trade careers with you, Roman,
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  Speaker 1: I would have done it. I'm guessing there's a lot
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: of sports writers and reporters I know that would love
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: to be political writers and reporters, and there's a lot
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: of political reporters and writers that would love to be
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: sports reporters.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: Always greener, right, But I started in local news, right,
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: So when you talk about your local news stuff and
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: I know what you're doing, now, you know my first
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: I still joke that nobody was ever meaner to me
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: than the Scarsdale to this day, including NBA people, than
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: the Scarsdale New York cheerleading moms who thought I had
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  Speaker 3: something out against their children who I weren't featuring enough
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  Speaker 3: after a meet.
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  Speaker 1: So, yeah, you you were born with a BIA seconds
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: cheerleaders is trying to naturally, yes, correct, correct, Well, In fact,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: let's spend a couple of minutes tell me about how
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: you you know, how you got to being a book author.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: That's always the goal of a lot of reporters. Can
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: you get to the point where you don't have to
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: do the day to day grind as much, where you
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: can do the long form reporting, the eighteen month projects
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  Speaker 1: rather than the eighteen hour projects.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So for me, I mean, so I started, like I said,
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  Speaker 3: local news covering in the Journal news in Westchester, Rockland area,
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: local sports out here, and yeah, I mean NBA was
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  Speaker 3: always my sport. Basketball is always my favorite sport. And
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  Speaker 3: just for me, I learned early on that the sort
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  Speaker 3: of my brain works, I like diving into subjects and
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: kind of honing in on things and not being day
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  Speaker 3: to day. I also saw sort of where the business
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  Speaker 3: was going and thought that, I mean, now it's maybe kind.
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  Speaker 2: Of the other way.
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  Speaker 3: But you know, ten years ago there was this whole
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  Speaker 3: long form thing and feature writing, and there was a
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  Speaker 3: bit of a renaissance around it. In a way, if
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  Speaker 3: you can do good stuff that reporting in it, that's
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  Speaker 3: part of the other part is it's more importing its
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  Speaker 3: But I'm Actually, you know, I'm a Sabbath observant jew,
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  Speaker 3: so I knew that being a beat writer was not
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  Speaker 3: necessarily gonna be that wouldn't lend itself.
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  Speaker 1: Out fun Friday nights.
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  Speaker 3: We taught that some stuff that happened there, so I
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: had to sort of adjust around that. So a mix
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  Speaker 3: of it. I just I just even the way I mean,
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  Speaker 3: it's more of a media conversation too, but sort of
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  Speaker 3: so much as sports.
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  Speaker 2: Reporting, I think other reporting in general, but.
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  Speaker 3: Sports reporting now has gone into the insider, right.
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  Speaker 2: You have these main ten pull insiders. Adrian wol Janowski, it.
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  Speaker 3: Was a name not there anymore, but these are you know,
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  Speaker 3: if you're not big sports fan, who recognized somebody's names,
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  Speaker 3: Adam Schefter and the day to day scoops go to
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  Speaker 3: them and just it's just it's been did basically otherwise.
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  Speaker 1: Well it's access, you know. I always say this, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I go to a lot of journalism schools. Yeah, particularly
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: after I left Meet the Press as we try to
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: figure out how to how to you know, how are
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  Speaker 1: we going to fix this sort of this next generation
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  Speaker 1: A little bit of of of whether it's a trust
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  Speaker 1: issue and all of that, and I talk about the
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  Speaker 1: different forms of journalism. There's accountability journalism there, and you know,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: in politics, when you're an access journalist, that's as negative
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  Speaker 1: as it comes. Oh, you're just you're just being spoon fed.
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  Speaker 1: You're the Trump reporter, or you're the or the Schumer
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  Speaker 1: reporter or something like that. Where in sports, if you're
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: not if you don't have access to the building, you
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  Speaker 1: can't do your job as the beat reporter. It's not fair.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: So you sometimes have to pull a punch because these
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  Speaker 1: are private organizations. Right in politics, I'm covering a taxpayer
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  Speaker 1: funded organization and.
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  Speaker 2: They need you, right, they need you to get the
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  Speaker 2: message out like well, I don't know, like left.
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  Speaker 1: So I would argue that that less on that, it's
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  Speaker 1: more of we at least have the Freedom of Information Act, right,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: we have things that we can use because it's taxpayer
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  Speaker 1: funded and they can't really, you know, we have that
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  Speaker 1: First Amendment right, and it is about the First Amendment
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  Speaker 1: is about government getting in the way. A private organization
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  Speaker 1: can decide who they talk to any anytime they want.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: And I remember we locally, we got a taste of
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  Speaker 1: this when the then Washington Redskins now Commanders, when Dan
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Schneider opened him. He just barred the Washington Post from
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  Speaker 1: being able to cover the organization. So the Washington Post
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: could cover the controversy around Dan Snyder, but they couldn't
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: tell you who was injured this week and who was
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: practicing this week because they weren't allowed in. And that
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: was a disservice to the readers of the Washington Post.
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  Speaker 1: So I always struggle with this issue in sports of
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  Speaker 1: just you know, there's no doubt you just identified there's
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: like three or four guys that get all the handouts.
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  Speaker 1: But those are handouts. Let's not pretend they're anything.
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  Speaker 2: Other than for sure one hundred percent.
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  Speaker 3: That's a big part of it, right, And I mean,
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  Speaker 3: now we're not and it becomes you know, anonymous horses
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  Speaker 3: for reasons I'm not really fully sure why. And so
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  Speaker 3: so for me it is kind of figuring out, Okay,
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  Speaker 3: I'm not going to be one of those guys, So
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  Speaker 3: what's the other lane? And the other lane is sort
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  Speaker 3: of this more in depth reporting. I mean, what you're
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  Speaker 3: saying is so true, and it's this is not me
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  Speaker 3: selling the book in this way, but like one of
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  Speaker 3: the three reasons I thought I could write the book
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  Speaker 3: I'm a New Yorker. I don't cover the Lakers a lot,
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: and there were issues with the Lakers at me, but
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  Speaker 3: I don't rely on them like the arena I go do.
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  Speaker 3: Mostly I go to the Masive Square Garden. That's the
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  Speaker 3: team I deal with.
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  Speaker 1: With.
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  Speaker 2: It's their own problems. We could talk about the.
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  Speaker 3: Nick separately, but if the Lakers, if the Lakers got
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  Speaker 3: annoyed in me, and they did, like, I'm not dependent
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  Speaker 3: on them for a credential to do my job, and
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  Speaker 3: I thought that was a value I could bring to
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  Speaker 3: the to the book specifically, because exactly what you're saying.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, one hundred percent. And in some ways it's
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: always been the case in any news organization that if
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: you're going to do an investigative piece, don't don't actually
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: let the Beat have the Beat reporters do it, because
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: you're going to cut off your nose despite your face exactly,
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  Speaker 1: go get and go get somebody who who is it
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: there all the time, right, who can go in and
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: sort of in some ways it's a fresher set of eyes,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: like if you're with a team data day to day,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: weird stuff comes across as normal to you because you
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: don't know the alternative versus you're coming from a farther away,
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  Speaker 1: so you can see the weird. You have a better
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: shot identifying the weird than the average beat writer of
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  Speaker 1: the Lakers.
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  Speaker 2: For sure.
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  Speaker 3: And like I say, you know, part of it is
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: I've taken a few shots in this media tour, maybe
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: at Lakers beat writers necessarily, But part of it is
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  Speaker 3: also that it's different jobs. So if you are a
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  Speaker 3: Laker beat writers, what you were saying about the Washington Post, right,
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  Speaker 3: if Lebron's not talking to you, you're failing your job.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: Like you are that your job is to tell get
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: that access. That's part of the job, and you get
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: part of the dirty war. But but that's literally your
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: job is to get Lebron and tell fans what that is. Right,
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  Speaker 3: So I I make fun of it sometimes, but I'm
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: also sym that I can understand it too, and that's
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: and that's and it's okay, right.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: I think that that's the thing. Like I look at
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: it as saying, hey, all, there's all there's a lot
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: of different flavors of journalism that we need. You need
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: your accountability, you need your access, you need your service.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Like we could sit here and go through it. So
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: you you went.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: About this.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: How many? I'm guessing this is not the first iteration
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: of a Lebron book you.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: Pitched, No, I had a uh the first all I
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: wanted to do we start is Lebron Big Three, the
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: Miami Heat, the Big three Heat. And actually for the
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: reason my grandfather, my grandfather moved. He was not a
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: basketball fan, but he moved to of course when New
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: York jew so what he'd do when he retired. He
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: moved down to a century village in Florida, right, and became.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: A We've all had a grandparent in century village in
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: South Florida, my great grandmother and grandfather where I think
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: they were the founding residents there in the late seventies.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: I love it right in the clubhouse at Alray.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Beach was our was our was our century village.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: But so my mine was Deerfield.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: So he became a later in his life, I think
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: through me because he saw much I love sports.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: He became a huge Heat fan.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: Huge where he would he would watch, he would call me,
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: he would watch first take, he would want he would
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: get angry all the media guys who picked against the Heat.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: This was when there was the big bat near the backlash.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: He was just he was he.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: I always compare him a little bit to a Jewish
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: version of Miami. People might remember Dan Lebtard and he
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: had his father on TV. Oh yeah, rappy hoppy, right,
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: So it's a Jewish version of that. So that Heat
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: team had like a special place in my heart because
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: I was talking about them a lot. I had tried
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: doing a book on the my order. So the first
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: Lebron idea I had and I always say, you know,
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: I like books and I'm the journal of the Big
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: but it's also a commercial endeavor. Uh, so you need
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: to have something I could sell, So Lebron is obviously
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: that doesn't mean you have to be interested in the
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: topic too, but it has to be the commercial aspect
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: to it. And so I pitched the Uh what I
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: wanted to do was that I had to proposal on
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: everything the Big three Heat and uh, it just didn't work.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Someone else was gonna do it, and I heard about it.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: They ended up not doing I don't actually genuinely don't
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: know what happened there, but I had to.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Uh, I had to pivot, and we ended up with Lakers.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: You know, it's tough you know with sports books is
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: you know, I sit there and like, my favorite sports
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: books are a variety of different types. Like October sixty
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: four is just an Alzheimer for me, because it's a
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: book that's not really about baseball, right, it's about the
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: civil rights movement and sort of the beginning and the
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: end of it, and then sort of the role sports played.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: And it's just obviously Harbert Stamm is sort of the
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: He's the north Star sports right, like, you know, nobody
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: does it like him, so I'm not going to say
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: there's that. But then I love some oral histories. There's
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: a great one about the ABA.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Called Loose Balls Falls.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Yep, oh my god, it's it is one that I
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: My fandom for that book only grows. I mean, it
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: was just like a terrific It's a reminder that there
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: are certain recent histories are sometimes better told via oral
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: history than trying having one writer's voice to try to
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: capture the moment. But the larger difficulty in sports books
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: is getting out of a region, right or getting out
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: of a metro area, which is why I mean I've
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I've pitched some sports and politics books and have struggled
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: to get publishers to buy it because of this issue.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Lebron obviously is somebody that's bigger for the reason that
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: I stated in our introduction, Lebron is a cultural icon,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: not just a basketball icon. And then you merge it
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: with the Lakers, also a cultural icon, and suddenly I
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: now see where you have a commercial vehicle.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean Lebron, Like listen, you could be it's
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: not even any sports fan. But even tho they're not
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: sports fans. If you say Lebron, people have opinions. It's
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: interesting because they they don't all necessarily like him, and
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: that's an interesting thing that I find about him, Like
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: would the obviously compare him to Jordan always and it
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: seems to elicit a different emotional rest It's.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: The strangest are are And I guess that's where I
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: want to start. Yeah, because I've I've I will confess
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: I've started the book. I've not finished the book, but
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: it is it is a This feels like a Lebron book,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: not a Lakers book.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's probably true.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: Or the way I the way I've sort of thought
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: of through is it's like on the so what I
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: like to do one of the things I like to
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: write about. In the way I sort of approach my job,
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: I think is in the way I summarize it is
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: I like writing about. I describe it the things that
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: happen behind the scenes that we don't see that impact
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: what happens on the court that we do see. Right,
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: And so for me, this is sort of a look
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: at the I'll call it the merger really because it's
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: more than a merger between these two iconic sporting institutions
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: of Lebron and the Lakers and what that looks like together.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: But Lebron is sort of the you know, everything goes
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: through him and him and his agency and what that means.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: And later I do a lot of his political stuff,
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: which around the Bubble twenty twenty, around the Bubble, and
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: a lot of stuff he did there, and then sort
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: of his retreat from political life in recent years, which
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: we've seen and I have found really interesting. So yeah,
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's I would agree with you on that.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting this merger that I like that
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: you described it as a merger between Lebron and the Lakers,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: because when I think about all the other superstars that
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: the Lakers have acquired, right, Kareem was an acquisition, Shaq
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: was an acquisition. You could argue Kobe was an acquisition
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: because it was a trade on on on Draft Night,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: but I don't know. I put Kobe in magic. We're
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: sort of Lakers for life versus Kareem, Lebron, and Shaq,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: who were sort of the hired guns, right. But in
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: the case of Kareem and Shack, the Lakers, the Lakers
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: made them bigger deals. Lebron arguably was a bigger, bigger
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: brand before going to the Lakers, and in some ways
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: he's still a bigger brand than the Laker brand.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: Is that Yeah, it's so It's so interesting. I completely agree.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: And one of the things I looked at is like,
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: why did Lebron go to Lakers? Right, And to this
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: day you don't get a clear answer, And it.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Seems like an obvious answer, I'll just.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Move hit.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: The business of Lebron needed to be in La So
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: all of Lebron's post basketball life was going to be
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: based out of out of southern California. Even if it
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: was going to be in Vegas, he was probably going
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: to live in southern California. So it seemed to me
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: it was just him preparing for the next chapter, and
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: the Lakers were just the most viable way exit strategy.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: So the second part, there's why I think is interesting
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: becuse that's I was going to say that, like it's
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: almost like, Okay, I want to do this, and I'm
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: so big, right, the brand of Lebron is so big
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: that what team can what there's no I can't go
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: play for ninety nine percent of teams. It's basically Lakers
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: or Knicks were basically it like those are the two
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: that would work.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: And he wanted to go out west because it just
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Nicks one because.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: He's never been a New York guy. No, for whatever reason,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: I have a I'll ask you about it later. I
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: have one theory as to why he picked the Heat
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: over the Knicks back in the decision. Okay, I want
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: to get to that with you, but go keep going.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's and it's so I agree with you.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: The post basketball stuff. What's interesting. It's been sort of
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: a mix of what that looks like and maybe that's
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: part of it.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: So at first we thought it was gonna be movies
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: and he did space Jam, but then that sort of
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: disappeared a little bit, and they have his his his
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: longtime business manager friend Maverick Carter sort of had this
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: spring Hill Entertainment which maybe people have heard of, and
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: the reporting on that is.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: That's basically it's I don't want to say a failure,
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: but it's not. It's not doing great financially. So you
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: had that, you know. He there's about his wife, like
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: the weather, and he wanted his kids to be out there,
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: and just he was done with Cleveland.
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: And again we're talking about that post business stuff, the
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: post playing career in his businesses. Ownership is definitely something
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: he's interested in. I cover that a lot, and and
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: he feels like las big.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, it feels like it's an inevitable ownership group
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: that that he gets to lead, right for sure.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: And he's uh the things to cover, like he's made
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: trips to Saudi Arabia, which most people think I can't.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: I don't know, he hasn't said, but most people in
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: these circles believe those are not coincidental. Right, He's invested
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: in like a sell boating thing out there. I don't know,
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: but he did some minister of culture, one of the
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: princess which I whose name I'm not gonna even pretend
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: to remember, but one of the princes hosted an Instagram
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: picture of Lebron there Maverick Carter, So most people kind
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: of joined a connection that like money and face of
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: the ownership, right, that's kind of where we're gonna end
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: up with the uh with that stuff.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: But he is so big, that's the point.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: Like the Lakers, it almost feels like the only team
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: that could absorb him in that and not be swallowed
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: by him.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: It's sponsorship time. But you know what, it's really great
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: when you get a sponsor that you already use.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: And guess what.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Quint's is something that in the tod household we already
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: go to. Why do we go to Quint's Because it's
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: a It's a place to go where you can get
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: some really nice clothes without the really expensive prices. And
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: one of the things I've been going through is I've
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: transitioned from being mister cot and ty guy to wanting
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: a little more casual but to look nice doing it.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Is I've become mister quarter zip guy. Well guess what.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Guess who's got amazing amounts of quarter zips?
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: It is Quints.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: I have gotten quite a few already from there. The
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: stuff's really nice. They have Mongolian cashmere sweaters for fifty dollars.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: I just know, hey, cashmere, that's pretty good. You don't
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: normally get that for fifty bucks or less. Italian wool
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: coats that look and feel like designer the stuff. I'll
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: be honest, right, you look at it online, you think, okay,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: is this really as nice as it looks? Well, when
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: I got it, I was like, oh, this is real quality.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm going to end up making sure I
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: take it to my dry cleaner so I don't screw
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: it up when I clean it. But I've been quite impressed.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: In Hey, it's holiday season. It is impossible to shop
• 19:30
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• 19:33
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• 19:39
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• 19:42
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• 19:44
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• 19:47
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• 19:51
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• 20:04
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• 20:08
  Speaker 1: slash chuck use that code well, But I could argue
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: I say this as somebody who like, you know, I'm
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: I'm even though I'm in my mid fifties, I was
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: probably the first generation of NBA fans that were fans
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: of a player, not a team. Yeah, I grew up
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: in Miami in the seventies and eighties. We didn't get
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: the heat until I was literally graduating high school. That's
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: when we got the heat.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Ronnie Cyclee he was the big first star that that
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: we had. And so I was a magic guy, you know.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: And I had a friend who was a bird guy, right,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: and I had another friend who became it was the
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: Jordan guy, right, and we you know, that's how we
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: rooted for basketball in the seventies and eighties, and and
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: it's in some ways it's still what basketball is today. Right,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: it's more player And then Team German and the Lakers
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: were one of the Lakers and the Celtics Roys the
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: two franchises that most of the time were bigger than
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: their players, right, or at least were the same size
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: as their players see Magic Johnson. The Lakers have been
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: good for Lebron, but it's Lebron been good for the Lakers.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: So it's it's so interesting. So the short answer is yes.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: So this is one of the So the short answers yes,
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: because you have to remember the dark period they were
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: in before they got in, right, So this is people remember.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: So anyone who's watched the HBO show Winning Time, which
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: is based on another great Lakers book.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Show called Showtime, and HBO couldn't couldn't green light a
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: TV show called Showtime now.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: Correct, which is hilarious exactly.
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: The book was Showtime by Jeff Prowlman, who's like the
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: best sports author going right now, Hey football.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: For a buck.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: I had him on this podcast talking Trump and yeah.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: I'm sure, so he's like the best at this.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: So that book gets on the magic Kareem Lakers, this
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: show gets made to bring it up.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: So that's Jerry Buss, right.
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: Jerry Buss is people know him, his iconic owner, just
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: larger than life figure. All that builds the Lakers into
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: the thing that.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: We all know they are he dies, leaves leaves the.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: Children, leaves the Lakers to a trust of six children,
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: and when I you know, the term it's like succession
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: but is a cliche, but it really is that, like
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: this is really sports succession, where like Jerry Buss is
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: I guess Brian Cox's character, except he goes to the
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: payboy mansion a little more and he had a little
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: less money.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, the dirty little secret about the Lakers and
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: the Bus family is how basically, and that's what Winning
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Time did a good job of explaining. Bus was sort
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: of like the Donald Trump of his era. He always
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: used other people's money, correct to pretend he was wealthy,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: like he didn't really have well correct.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: And so he leaves the team and he's got his
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: children fighting over it and they're not it's not a
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: good situation. He basically leaves it where he leaves a
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: trust in a way where Jeannie the daughter is in
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: charge of the business side, jim the son is in
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: charge of basketball, Genie's actually in charge.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Of it all.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: It's sing you mean the former presidential candidate Jimmy Buss.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: That's, by the.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: Way, the succession that was when really it went to
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: succession because he is was a connor whatever.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, literally, I mean, I mean, I I'll never forget
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: getting that press release like May of last year.
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: You know, you're like, wait, what, he's a filed exactly exactly.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: Oh wait, though, I'm gonna I'm gonna confirm. Sorry, it
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: was Johnny Buss. Johnny Bus, Johnny Buss.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Sorry, Johnny, this is the third, right, Jimmy, there's Jeanie
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: and there's Johnny.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: There's Jimmy, Jeannie, Johnny, Janney, Joey, Jesse. Now I remember
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: if you can get all those kidding, it's all jays. Yeah,
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: among the ones we know, all the same mom or no, no, no,
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: that's the okay, the original four or the four older
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: ones with one mom, two younger ones with a second mom.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: One came out later with the third mom. I don't
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: know what else is that.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: So there's the there's another TV show that's out there
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: that's also about the kind of about Genie Buss.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, that is yeah, nobody is watching that show.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that they did do the storyline of Hey, look,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: one of the concessions guys said out of wedlock brother
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: of yours, Genie.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: I have to tell you, nobody has watched that show
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: with a more critical eye than me because some of it,
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: so much of it is true that I'm.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Watching it and being like, oh my god, who came
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: up with this idea? Wait? Do I have to look
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: into this? Is this something real?
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: Because there's enough that is true there that I'm thinking like, Okay,
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: maybe she's an executive producer.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: I thought Leani.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, Jenny Buss is an EP
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: on it, right.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she's execut producer. So that's what I was, literally like,
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: I was taking notes on that show. I'm not even
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: I'm not even like nobody else watched a show like
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: it's passive.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: It was decent. It's a passive entertainment show, right.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Right, the woman from Almost famousson, Yeah, thank you.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: But I'm watching it like you know, people watch like
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: The Wire and like college courses. You know, I'm just
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: taking notes on it. You can find exactly So they said,
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: those kids and it's a disaster. I'll go the full
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: quick version. It's a Genie has to fire her brother.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: Her brothers then try to take the team from her
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: in a boardroom coup that doesn't work.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: She keeps the team and this is and.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: Then they give Kolby this ridiculous contract, sort of a
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: golden parachute of a contract, end his career and sort
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: of bring back to your question, like what mattered more
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: they needed Lebron was this lifeline sort of this we
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: are in this dark period and Lebron comes and it's like, no,
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: the Lakers are back, eye Genie Buss and like my father,
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: I can get stars too.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: We are back. So that's where he had an immense
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: impact on them and her specifically.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Well, that's interesting that you say that, because when you
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: really look at it, if you take away the bubble title, Yeah,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: the Lakers they've been I guess was it two years
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: ago they were a three seed or a two seed
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: or was it last year that three seed they made?
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: Last year of the three seed they made the conference finals.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: Kind of like you know back in they backed in
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: a couple of years ago.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Right, but they've really not been a factor, right, They
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: just you can feel that they're not a factor. They
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: just don't have enough depth. And it goes to, frankly,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: just a total mismanagement of their front office, right, mortgaging
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: so many of their draft picks where they were I mean,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: they had some draft picks. They just sort of peed
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: them away, right, you know, yeah, you look, you know,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: whether it's Lonzo ball or whatever.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Correct, the kind of as I've been doing.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: This is the way I describe it is like you
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: can't say they want a title, so you can't say
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: it was a failure.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: So the way I say it is, it was the
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Lebron ten year in LA was a success. Butt.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: And the butt is if I told you when he
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: got there in twenty eighteen that you would get eight years.
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: And I think this is like I joke, it's going
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: to be a trivia question people get wrong in twenty years.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: This is Lebron's longest consecutive stretch with one team. It's
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: the Laker, this current Lakers stretch. Right, that's the team
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: he spent the most consecutive years with. Right, So you
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: told you you're gonna get yeah.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: Go ahead, No, no, No.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: That's interesting because it then brings up the question of
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: what logo does he go in the Hall of Fame with?
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: Right, It's fascinating and the idea of being so he's
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: there eight years and he's been mostly healthy until now,
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: basically mostly healthy and not just one title. It was
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: in a bubble one finals run like just one finals appearance.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: And the fact that makes it even more interesting is
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: the fact that the title and the main high point
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: happened in a literal bubble with no parade, and they
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: then have this sort of robbed fans of his ability
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: to emotionally connect to these moments, these things that fandom
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: is built on. And I just think it's going to
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: make his legacy in LA really interesting and honestly diminish.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: It when we look back on it in twenty years
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: and going to be like, wait, what happened there? What
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: was this? It's a strange.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: No, it's always going to be the third Yeah, it's
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: never going to be the first or second part of
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Lebron's career. It's always going to feel like the coda.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: It's always going to be the coda.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: No, I agree, I agree, but just strange. It's strength
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: to that point. It's strange that like that is the
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: long like I said, that longest stretch, right, that that
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: is not a three year period but an eight year
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: or maybe nine we'll.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: See what happens stretch. That's the part that makes it strange.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Let me ask this, why do you think Lebron wasn't
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: a ring chaser. You know, there's always been this thought,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: is he a ring chaser or not. He's clearly not
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: because if he wanted a ring chase, you and I
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: you tell me, But I think if he wanted a
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: ring chase, the Warriors would have found a way to
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: make room for him.
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: They called, out of my mind that they called it, right,
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: they asked, and he said, And it's really interesting. It
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: shows you where his relationship was with the Lakers in
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty four. He was in one of his passive
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: aggressive tweet streaks or whatever when he does.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: And so they called.
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: They figured, okay, we'll call Geni Bus And they called,
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: and Genie Buss in a really interesting answer and she
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: gets censored about this, but she didn't say no. She said,
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: call Rich Paul Lebron's agent, call him and find out,
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: which is not a no right for like for her,
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: that's a big okay, Like, I don't know if call
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: him And he said no.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: So he made that. Yeah, he's made a choice.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: He's made a choice to sort of keep his roots
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: in La Maybe goes back to what we were talking
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: about before. For whatever reason, whether it's a family thing,
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: whether it just deciding he doesn't want to play for
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: a random team, you know, I just yeah, he hasn't
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: done it.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: He hasn't done it.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: I don't know if he's still sensitive about you know,
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: the Miami Super Team winking up and he doesn't want
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: that associated more than like, look I do that.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but I agree with you.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Well, let me go back to Miami because this one
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: is a little more personal to me. You have the
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Bill Simmons version of events. Okay, right, and look, I
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: don't know if you listen to him, yes, yeah, of course,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: so you well, I mean, then you know where that
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: he believes it was a peeing contest between pat Riley
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: and Lebron James. And there was no way Lebron James
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: was never he was never going to stay somewhere where
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: he wasn't the alpha, and pat Riley was never going
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: to keep somebody and play second fiddle to them. Is
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: that the reason why that that relationship ended?
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: I think partly, yeah, I would say the part I
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: would Riley did try like the and this is but
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: Riley did try to keep him right, and part of
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: it is that he was offended the way Lebron treated
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: him in the pitch meeting, like the the story about
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: I forget maybe Riley went up to Vegas to pitch
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: them and Lebron some of the guys like a soccer
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: game on the background, and Riley just felt, you know,
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: offended because this is and he's right, he's pat Riley
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: and thought he deserved a little more respect. The answer
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: to that is probably what you're saying is probably like
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: that was the build up to that, where sort of
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: this contest about who actually gets to run things, who's
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: in charge, who gets to do it, whose way. I
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: always compare the heat to like Lebron's graduate school almost
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: right where yeah, Cleveland.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: I'd heard him call it college before, right.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, so yeah, it's just like he learned how to win.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he learned how to win and how to
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: he needed it, and then he sort of took the
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: things he got there and took them out into the
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: world with him into Cleveland. Then, I mean the reason
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: he left and this is but the reason he left
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: he wanted to fix the Cleveland narrative, right, they wanted
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: to fix the decision narrative. They want to go back
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: win a title in Cleveland, Like that was I mean
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: the fact that they went back to tell you about him.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: What does that tell you about Lebron? What do you
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: what do you take away? Not everybody would feel that
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: because he's never really going to live there again, right,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: his kids may never live there. You know, I have
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: an attachment to Miami that my son has no attachment to,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: right because he's never I don't think his kids really
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: have an attachment to Acron in Cleveland. But it meant
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: something to him to do that, for sure. What does
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: that tell you about him? That maybe we we we
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: we overlook sometimes in our in our sort of cheap
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: descriptions of these ubers.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: I mean, I mean one, it's you care people think,
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: which I actually think is not a you know, guess
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: someone as a negative. Like I always I always laugh,
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: you know, in my job, I always laugh when people say,
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: like when the athletes sad will pay attention? You all do,
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: and it's fine, like we all do. It's the most
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: human thing, Like what are you kidding? And so it's
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: caring right care of people think that's a big thing.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: I think that like is it more about legacy and
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: caring what people think as opposed to the hometown thing.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: I actually think a bit of it, but it's also intertwined,
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: and I think at that point it's probably hard for
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: to separate those two.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: And obviously bringing the title, I mean that was looked Cleveland.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: You know, they haven't won an NFL championship since the fifties.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: They haven't won a baseball championship since the forties. It
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: was a b fd on.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: Hundred, like the way the way I kind of said,
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: he went back to a team it mattered so much
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: to him, and because he recognized how much it had
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: mattered to Cleveland, he went back and was willing to
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: take checks and play for Dan Gilbert. I remember, Dan
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: Gilbert's the owner of people don't know he's the owner
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: of the Cavaliers. After Lebron goes to Miami, he writes,
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: and I might even use the coded like it might be. No,
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: it was a racist letter. It was a racist letter
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: saying basical, how dare Lebron leave?
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: It was terrible.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: It was terror right, just like it was. I forget
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: who used but.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: A plantation like letter was a phrase thrown around a
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: lot by people who by like you know, historians and
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: people who all throw that language around lightly. And Lebron
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: was willing and he's still in the cast Lebron went
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: back and it's not like it's not like he it
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: wasn't that because I always forgiven it because that was
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: so important to him, and it was so and he
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: thought it mad it would matter so much to the city.
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: Whether that's for an ego for the city, probably mix
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: them both right, that he was willing to go back
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: and say, you know what, I'm gonna eat it this,
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: I want to do this.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Of the three franchises, which one would build a statue
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: to them?
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: Well, so, I joke, the Lakers, I think are going
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: they just do that, right, even though it's weird and
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: La has.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Weird if the Lakers do it personally because it's not
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: he's the only one one.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: Sorry, But wouldn't it be weird if they didn't? That's
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: the thing think about like that, Like would it be
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: weird if they didn't do it? Because you have Lebron again,
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: a top five, if not better player all time eight.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Years on your team.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: It's almost like a statement I agree with you, but
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: it's almost like a statement if you don't do it.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: All right, the Washington Wizards don't have a statue of
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Michael Jordan, but.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: That was two years, right that we didn't own it,
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: so it's different, but about two years it's not the
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: eight like, that's the thing. I mean, the LA relationship again,
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: the LA's relationship to Lebron is so interesting. It is
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: the one place he went there and he was not welcomed,
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: like it was not cheering. There was there were murals
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: of him that were de face with pictures of Kobe.
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: A lot of this goes back to the Kobe Lebron rivalry.
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: A little that was a little between them, but I'm
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: in a more macro sens was between sort of fan
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: their respective fandoms, and so.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Going in I never thought of it as much of
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: our because basically Kobe, you know, his last championship is right,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: but the year before the decision.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: Right yeah, And they and it never went up each other.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: They never faced each other in the finals, which is
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: too bad. But they were pitted against each other and
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: by Nike and by marketing machines and media, and it
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: became a thing where Kobe's fans.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: Which are Lakers fans, who are I mean the Lakers
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: Kobe fans.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Fans are not all Lakers. The thing I've learned about
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: l a and I have a my best friend lives
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: out there and he will he vouches for this too,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: which is not all. Not all all Laker fans are
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Kobe fans, but not all Kobe fans.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Are Kobe's ahead in the hierarchy.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, Kobe is higher up in the hierarchy. And this
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: is double. This was true before he died, but it
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: cemented after he died.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: Yes, And it's fascinating because then you think about it,
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: and then you think about Kobe and Lebron and they
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: are polar opposite in so many ways in terms of
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: their approach on the court, where like Kobe, it's like
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: I shoot over four guys, Lebron passes the open guy.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: Lebron's you know my all kinds of a good teammate,
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: Night's guy. Kobe was a bit of a bleepole, right,
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: Kobe want to be friends like Kobe would to link
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: up with our players on their teams. Lebron obviously does.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: And it sort of becomes like, that's the quote Mamba mentality,
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: and his fans then go to war for that quote
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: Mama mentality being correct as opposed to Lebron's approach, and
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: then all of a sudden this guy you've been arguing
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: arguing against is dropped into your city and it just
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: creates these weird mix of emotions.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's interesting, this this the persona of Lebron.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: You know, I think about I. I I'm a Lebron
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: defender generally. Yeah, meaning I look at a kid at
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: fifteen who's on the cover of Sports Illustrated, who's told
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: he's going to be the next greatest basketball player of
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: all time, that this guy's the heir apparent of Michael Jordan.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: And it's true. He lives up to an absurd set
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: of expectations that were set for him. And oh, by
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: the way, there's no major scandal around Lebron's life. You've
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: never you know, we can, I'm sure you there's plenty
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: of rumors that you've had to deal with that you
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: know that people would say, hey, did you know this
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: about him? There's rumors about every celebrity. Ninety percent of
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: them are not true or so exaggerated they're more not
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: true than true. But you know, I'm one of those,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: you know, you sort of crowdsource somebody's life. If he
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: was a bad dude. After twenty five years, we'd have
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: a parade of people telling us how bad of a
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: duty he was. Right, he's clearly a good guy. He's
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: a pretty you know, he's he's a good family man.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: He's very protective of his mother. I think that's why
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: he never was going to go to New York. He
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: didn't trust the New York tabloids to leave his mother alone.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: I've always believed that that's Miami. Is this safe space.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Yep for that.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: We Miami has never had a New York post culture
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: is what I'll call it. Right, there's no Page six.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Celebrities are allowed to live in Miami and people malone.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: It's very similar to La. There's just not as many
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: celebrities in Miami as or is in LA. But it's
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: that same thing. Oh, everybody leaves them alone, you know, nobody.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: You know, we're all we're all hiding from something here
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: in Miami. That's why we're here, right, That's that's okay.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: And yet he seems polarizing, Like I understand why Kobe's polarizing,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: But why the hell did Lebron? How did it hell
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: did Lebron end up polarizing?
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: It's it's it's it's not a good it's the decision,
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: the original decision, that's what does it And it's so strange.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is a harsh way to put it,
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: but it can take the Kobe comparison more. It's said,
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: people seem to have less of a problem getting over
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: a sexual assault allegation and they do a pr uh
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: thing free agent thing, which I don't buy this, but
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: like I could spin it that worst thing he ever
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: did was do an awkward free agent thing that raised
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: money for charity.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Like that's the worst thing he did, right.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: Right, And again, I know the charity thing is a
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: bit of a cop out. I don't know full but like,
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: but on its surface, that's what it.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: That's what it is.
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: And and yet and I think he's never recovered from that,
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: and it's I mean, it kind of goes through your
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: intro the second about sports and what people feel like
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: they're entitled to as fans and what we expect, how
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: we expect athletes to.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Serve us, and it taps into all these greater things.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: You know, It's interesting the decision. I would argue that
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: was the last moment where a majority of fans took
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: the side of franchises over players, because ever since then,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: fans are more pro player than franchise.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: I mean, he sort of that and that's sort of
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: like that's part of the part of his legacy. Ran Usher,
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: you need this so called player powerment that right.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: Right, he brought it in. He made a hell of
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of money for Kevin Durant. Right, he blazed
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: a trail for Kevin Durant. Sure, he blazed a trail
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: for Chris Paul and some of these other guys that
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: made money ended up being able to sort of demand
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: what they want or a Kyrie Irving, right, James Harden.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: We can go on and on. None of those guys
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: are able to do with get what they got if
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Lebron hadn't done what he did right and he changed
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: so changed the game. And yet this pioneer is not
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: even held up in high esteem I think among NBA players.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: It's strange, Like obviously all respect his, no one, there's
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: no everyone respects the greatness and the longevity, which is
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: part of it, and the fact that he's forty or
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: forty one, and like this is the first time we're
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: seeing a little slip up.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: It's insane he.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Treats I mean, look, I also think he shows, you know,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: to be great, you have to work at it. Yeah,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: and you have to make a choice. You can't be
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: a you can't live the lifestyle. Look, Michael Jordan could
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: live a high roller lifestyle and be great at basketball Lebron.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: But guess what, Michael was still only great for a
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: shorter period of time.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: He was done by high thirty. He was done. He
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: was done.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Lebron trained his body and mind to be able to
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: essentially last like Tom Brady. And you know it's funny,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: is like Brady. You know, Brady's also not beloved outside
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: of New England. He's respected, he's acknowledged. But there's this
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: weird versus a Peyton Manning. Who's the more lovable guy?
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: All love Peyton Manning. I want Peyton Manning to sponsor this.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Brady was, you know, but Brady was so he seemed
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: to be so obsessed with football you didn't care about
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: the outside world. I think Lebron's mostly the same way.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: The Brady is the guy I always compare him to, right,
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: just because there is no take tennis out of it,
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: but the four major American sports, like, there's no comp
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: to what these guys do to be this great, that
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: great at.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: That age, it's unheard of.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: It's unheard of, and like the way one of the
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: things I dolivings, I loved this kind of like talk
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: to people about how Lebron has got him like this
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: and the way has explained to me. You know that
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: he's mapping out every minute. It shows you the discipline
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: that every hour of every day's mapped down. So they'll
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: be filming space Jam and then it's like two twenty
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: and his trainer potnay joke, he pops out a trap
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: door for like his two twenty seven in Kinwa, right,
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: or things like that, just knowing every hour. Michael Beasley
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: told me his stories Lebron's longtime friends, saying it's like
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: a bleeping NASCAR pit stop around them half the time.
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: Just these guys are always around there, and yeah, it's
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: something about it.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: But I agree.
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: So the respects there, But he's not the loved the
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: same way I think Kobe's probably again it's a Jordan thing,
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: a Kobe thing. Like these are guys who you hear
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: people talk about people meaning fans, media, but also players talk.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: About in a different way than Lebron, And it's fascinating.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: There's a reason results matter more than promises, just like
• 41:36
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• 41:39
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• 41:52
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• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Their fee is free unless they win. This is this
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Lebron's last year. I do I know, I mean, you
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: know this is it'd obviously be really good for your book.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: If it was, he would try to hitting that moving target.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: My answers, I don't know. I genuinely I don't think
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: he knows.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: That's my read on it is. I don't think.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: I think he's sort of he's a free agent now
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: they left. He says, sorry, he's on expiring contract. He
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: has for the first time in his career he is
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: on expireing deal. I think he's It seems to be
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: he's wreckon reckoning with no longer being the power player
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: that he once was and no longer being in total control.
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: He also like there's a lot of things he wants
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: to a lot of boxes he wants to check. Like
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: most assume he's gonna want a farewell tour. He also
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: has made clear talk about the player empowerment stuff.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: So he doesn't have a farewell tour now, correct, So
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: let's make good have announced it this year?
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: Correct? That makes me think where it's going to get
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: at least one more year.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: He doesn't take CAF of Cleveland right, It does right
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: because it comes back to so where is it going
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: to be.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: It's like, if you're doing a farewell tour, it's gonna
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: be a Lake Lakers or Calves. That's it. Anyone else,
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: that's it.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't even make sense for Miami anymore. Right,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: you can't make a Miami case. Yeah.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: No, And and and he doesn't take pay cuts. That's
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: the part he's gonna have to be interesting. It's going
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: to be interesting.
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: So since Miami, he joined Miami, he took a pay
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: cut to join them, And since then we talked about
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: the player empowerment. He's been very big on like, I
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: don't take pay cuts. We take the max deal. And
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's for like selfish reasons. I think
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: it's more of representing the player for us and sort
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: of being you know, union guy for lack of a
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: better term. And if you're not willing to take a
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: pay cut, your options are limited right where. You know,
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: if I was advising him, I might say, no, one's
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: going to call you a scab at the age of
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: forty one. You take ten million dollars instead of thirty, right,
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: Like that's okay, go where he wants. But I don't
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: know what he wants.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean Cleveland is a fascinating destination right now
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: because he might be able to win a title too
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: in this farewell year, if he chose to do that
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: next year. I mean, this is a team that is
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: it is, it is in it's the best version of
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: the Cleveland Cavaliers without a guy named Lebron James on
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: it as it is for sure.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: I thought he should have gone there like he because
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: he's kind of put out again some passive aggressive statements
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: this year, and I remember being like talking to some
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: people in NBA and just be like, do what you want, Like,
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: do you want to go home go to Cleveland then
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: it's fine, or you want to stay do what he wants?
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: I agree, well, And as a player, you know the
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: beauty of Lebron And just to me is why you
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: got to give it to him as a as a teammate,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: is that he he'd understands, he knows how to play
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: a role if that's the best way to win a game.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: I mean he could be an important role player and
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: oddly that Cleveland could use for sure.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: And the part I joke is like we talked about it,
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: but you know he's not top five player anymore. Last
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: year he was second team o MBA, which means he
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: was top twenty, top ten.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: Still, like, it's still incredible. If he wanted, he won't
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: do it.
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: We had, you know, most old guys you get to
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: the point where they're kind of the bench guy playing
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: fifteen minutes a game.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Like he could do that for seven more years if
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: he wanted to.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: He's so good and so smart and talk about the
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: role player stuff, So I mean anything would take him
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: for next year for sure.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Well, look, the other issue here has to be Brownie
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: yep right, and and and the role of and then
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: his middle son who some argue who's a little bit
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: taller than his brother.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Right, correct.
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: So my understanding is Bryce was Bryce is the other one.
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: He was once a better prospect. It seems to be
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: unclear now Bronnie's condes is why. So I always thought,
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: you know, and as you're writing it, you're like, oh,
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: that's what I want. But I always thought this would
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: be the last year because Bronnie's he's no, his contract
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: is no longer guaranteed after this year. So that's part
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: of the equation which I find really interesting. And so
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: we not talked about much. Yeah, I don't know, I
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: don't know if another team would take Bronnie if the
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: the reason Lebron was able to force that through last
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: time is because he was still good enough to force
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: that through. You know at this point, at the point
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: is at the case I don't know, well, is.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: It would any of us? Would any other team have
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: drafted Bronnie Smith?
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: No?
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: No, I mean I do think a team would have
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: drafted Bronnie James. I do actually believe that another team
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: would have because I think that was always another rumor. Hey,
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: does a team who wants Lebron and the for for
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: two for like sort of a two year farewell tour,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: do they draft Brownie as a way to bait him?
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: Right too, and clearly and clutch for Bron's agency was
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: worried about that because they they they they forced Bronni,
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: they would basically turn other teams away from himself.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: Another told them don't draft because he was ended up
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: drafting the second round. They told other teams do not draft.
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: They said, you know some team that heard stories about
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: teams on asking his agent Rich Paul, would Bronnie played
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: the G League and the answer was, he ain't know
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: if it works with the NBA schedule, which is not
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: what they were really implying.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: Right, That wasn't the reason the.
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: Question was asked that or they have draft telling teams
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: if you draft him, he's going to Australia like they
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: really they were forcing it through to make sure that
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: he would end up.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: With the Lakers.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: What does Lebron want out of this for his sons?
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: If I get if I get critical at all, and
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: I'm always I don't like to be I don't like
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: my parenting to be back seat driven, so I don't.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: I'm hesitant to backseat drive another parent. But man, i'd
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: like to think I wouldn't put that much pressure on
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: my kids, and he's put some He's put some serious
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: pressure on brown I feel nothing but empathy for Brownie,
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: and I know that that seems odd, but I do no.
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: You know, it's so interesting, So I agree with you.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: So that Lebron Brownie think is really interesting because he's
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: said he's been in locker rooms saying things out loud
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: when he knows reporters are around, like, oh, Bronnie could play,
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: he's better than half these guys in the NBA, or
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: tweeting out about my drafts being bad. All these things
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: where I would say, as a parent, too, like that
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: seems awful, that seems bad. And then and yet clearly
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: they've done something right because Bronnie.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: By all accounts, is a really he's.
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: I mean not by he's well liked, he's respectful, he
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: works hard.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: Everyone loves him actually really and he's just like his father,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: pretty high basketball like you. He may not have the abilities,
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: but he knows what he should be.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Doing, correct, So everyone loves Brownie.
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: So the fact, whenever I find myself saying that seems
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: like awful parenting, right, Whenever I find myself saying.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: That, fine, I sit there too.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, And I.
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: Kind of count the saying, you know what they raised
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: in basically on the celebrity spotlight, they raised a kid
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: and it seemed to have worked out.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: So I don't know if that's luck or they knew
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: what they were doing. So that's kind of how I defer.
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: But it's funny you say that because I've had these
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: same conversations with people and with myself, you know, internal
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: dialogues about this stuff.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: And I guess that that's that's going to be a factor.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: What what do we think his middle son is at
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: Arizona that he arizonated into. So are they Is he
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: going to play this year? I it was that game
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: was on last night and I forgot that there was
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: a James on there. I should have checked it out.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: It would have been good, good, good prep for this.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: But is he gonna play?
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: They don't, They don't. They don't know from Bryce's perspective,
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: and Lebron Lebron and Media Day was asked, you know
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: you're gonna wait for him? And I forget exact Well
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: it was basically no, you know, I'm not waiting for him.
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: You know we're not going to get to that point.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: So there's a world where Luca and Lebron could be
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: a fascinating version sort of a twenty first century version
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: of Kareem and Magic, sort of one guy at the
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: in the sunset of his career, one guy getting ready
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: for his peak powers. But why do I get the
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: sense that there's just no chemistry between these two?
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: So the funny part is, well, they haven't played a
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: lot together. That's the short answer. Lebron loves Luca. Like
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: Luca is one of these guys. First of all, all
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: NBA players respect him. He's sort of Lebron like in
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: terms of his you know, the chess master moving pieces
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: around years ago.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: Lebron hadn't played defense. Lebron plays for sure.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: For sure, but so years ago, well, lebronch was going
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: to build out or was building out his own Jordan
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: like Lebron line for Nike, and Luca was one of
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: the guys he targeted and that was way before. So like,
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: Luca's always been a guy he likes, and he talks
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: to people around Lebron now and they say, now Lebron
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: loves Luca, the Lakers he might feel differently about, right,
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: So like the la I think anything you're seeing is
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: if you see a passive aggressive or maybe see a
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: clip of Lebron watching a game and maybe not being
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: mister raw ra guy. I think that's more about Lakers
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: organizational and the fact that they haven't given him that
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: they didn't offer from a contract extension last summer, as
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: opposed to any issues with the Encourt guys.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: But in fairness to the Lakers, my god, what I
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: mean they can't keep I would argue, I mean, I think,
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: and this is the real question is when you ask
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: basketball people, has keeping Lebron around? Actually you know, certainly
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: pre trade of Luca. Look, the Luca trade falls into
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: their lap, which is you know why, there's why why
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: our friend mister Simmons wants to have a conspiracy theory
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: about somehow this helps the It is amazing how often
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: the Celtics and Lakers end up with of course, oh boy,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: just when they need a player to it. Of course
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: their legacy going. They find it right, But it it doesn't.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: It doesn't seem as if that keeping Lebron has actually
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: been good for the Lakers for the rest of this decade.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: This isn't the right way to prepare for a post
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: Lebron Lakers.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: No, I agree with you.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: I don't think they're wrong. And the most the interesting
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: part is they were doing this. They were moving on
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: before Luca. So if you look back, if you're you know,
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: the Lakers hired JJ Red to be the head coach
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: before last year.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: There's always been a question that was not Lebron's first choice?
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: Correct it was?
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: It was. It wasn't that Lebron was out of it.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: It wasn't necessarily his first choice.
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: Like he They floated that they had floated they want
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: some other guys, and everyone assumed because Lebron and Jji
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: Redick were hosting a podcast together, because not really, since
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: it's twenty twenty five, why wouldn't that be the case.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: Of course, that's what.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: By the way, Rich Paul apparently is going to have
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: a a a podcast with Simmons right and in that world.
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: And if you want to, if anyone who wants to
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: do a fun google now that you know Rich Paul's,
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: you know, going to be working with Bill Simmons, look
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: up what Rich Paul said about Bill Simmons in an
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: interview with Isaac Channer in The New Yorker, and that'll
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: be a fun nun.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: Tool to Simmons gredit. He kind of alluded to it
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: when he in his podcast earlier this week. What he said,
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: he goes, Yeah, when we had the first meeting, it
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: wasn't clear whether there's this question. There's Rich like Bill,
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: there's Bill like Rich.
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: Get ready yeah soon. I'll say this about Rich Paul's
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: this is separate. I like Rich Paul. I find like
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: he is a professional's wrong word, he just gets it.
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: He's not sensitive like he can he can. He's okay
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: if you criticize him, and then you can talk about it.
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: Talking out and he's cool with it. You know, sometimes
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: people in the sports world are uber sensitive about things,
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: and he is not one of them. But we were
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: saying to the JJ Redick, the Lakers hire JJ red
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: to be their head coach. And you listen to that
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: press conference, it's hilarious because they're talking like they're the
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: Oklaho City Thunder. They're talking about it's a new world.
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: We were into player Development's talk about they're going to
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: make a player development app, which I don't know whatever
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: happened to that. You know, there's new salary cap structures.
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: We don't do superstars anymore. Luca then falls to the
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: lap and they change everything. But they were moving on
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: from Lebron before last year.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: Let's do two more items here before before I let
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: you go. One is Magic Johnson's relationship with the Lakers.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: Is it? Is there one anymore? Or you know, after
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: the debacle of his role has sort of head of
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: basketball operations and now that he's you know, I see
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: him in most Commanders games now hanging out with as
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: a part owner of that team. He's a part owner
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: of that. He was all over the Dodgers like of course,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: it seems like he always knew where the camera was.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: There's a camera, there's a camera, there's Magic finding his
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: way into it.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: What's the relationship between Magic Lebron and Magic and the Lakers?
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: Okay, so the most interesting part is that the Lakers
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: just sold recently to Mark Walter, who owns the Dodgers.
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: So Magic Johnson, I guess is it's it's actually interesting
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: question because people don't know, and people are around the
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: NBA are really curious. So Magic it ended. The background
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: is him and Genie Boss were basically like brother and sister,
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: so close. She brings him in for a year to
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: run or two years he's there and it ends, like
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: you said, horribly, just a flame out. It's embarrassing to her,
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: embarrassing to the franchise. And then he goes on TV
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: and he accuses Rob Polinka, a general manager who's still
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: the general manager, of backstabbing him. He says that that's
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: not even He's not like sources say. He's saying that
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: the Steph N Smith that rap Polinka backstabby on first take. Right,
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: So Rop Polink is still there, he's still the general manager, right,
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: He's still there. Lebron was not thrilled with how the
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: Magic stuff, and then Lebron also they him and his
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: group were really accommodating. Maybe that's the wrong word, like
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: magic after they saw Lebron was very big.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, wasn't Magic credited with recruiting Lebron and so
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: this is to be credited.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: This is what I say. They're accommodating. They were very
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: accommodating to Magic.
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: Telling the setting him there going on Jimmy Kimblell talking
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: about how he's outside Lebron's house at midnight or whatever,
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: and that was, as someone explained to me, I think
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: I put this in the book, like Lebron was going
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: there whether Magic was there or not. But they were
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: okay to let Magic do that.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: So Matt, they do that.
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: And then Magic, besides being bad at the job, just
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: to leave in this ridiculous way of announcing in a
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: press conference without telling anyone he's leaving and just basically
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: walking out the door. It's embarrassing. So I don't think
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: the relationship between him and Lebron is I think everyone
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: respects Magic and what he was. I wouldn't say that's
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: particularly close the him and Genie Bus. Their relationship is
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: still there, but it's not what it once was, but
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: again repeating what it looks like when Magic's partner now
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: buys the buys the Lakers and what that means. It's
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: I can tell you people asking me that question and
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Well, are the buses keeping a piece of the team.
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: So the genie is fifteen percent, which is the minimum
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: amount required to still be officially the governor.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: And she's the governor, he's the governor of the rep. Yeah.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: Correct, that could always change.
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: And we've seen other example and like where we told,
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: you know, Mark Cuban sold the team and said he
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: was going to be running in It wasn't the case.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: This seems to be more locked in than that. But
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: it could change any minute.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: Politics, right, and Lebron has It's funny, It's like, I
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: actually don't think he's weighed in that often in politics
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: compared to I could argue, compared to even Shack at Magic,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: Shack at Magic show up on events, they do stuff.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: When they did stuff for Obama, you know, Lebron, it
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: was always more the Obama people wanted more Lebron, and
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: Lebron was you know, felt like Michael Jordan in nineteen
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: ninety when he refused to endorse Harvey Gant in the
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: Jesse Helm Senate race in North Carolina. He never actually
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: said the quote, well Republicans by but you know, it's
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: always been the line, no shocker, right, But the legend
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: of that quote sits out there, and I always got
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: a sense that Lebron at least there was always a
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: piece of him that heard that, and he would he
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: certainly made you know, he did not want to seem
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: like he was unsupportive, particularly of the concerns of African Americans.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: So he never wanted to be seen is not supportive there.
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: But he never I never, I've never thought of him
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: as as active in politics as the reputation that is
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: out there in the right in particular is that he is.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: I think that's a great way to put it.
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: And I think the way you put I think the
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: real what you just said, the ending part there, right,
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: how he gets framed by the right and sort of
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: in today's world where you just you know you're good
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: or bad, everything's by it doesn't matter.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: It's sort of what the different we we live in
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: these different ecosystems, and the right has decided he politicizes everything,
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: and you're like, really, because correct he really doesn't. When
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: you when you look, I mean, you know, he does not.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: He does not get actively involved. He doesn't write big checks,
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: he doesn't show up in TV ads. Magic Johnson does
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: all of those things right and always has.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no Lebron, I mean even the first ones he did.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: It's interesting.
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: So he never did anything until Obama two thousand and eight.
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: I think it was j Jay Z was at a
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: thing that basically brought Lebron in, brought Lebron with right,
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: it was correct, correct, you'll member the Trayvon Martin. He
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: had a statement with the heat. But the interesting it
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: was it wasn't him, it was the whole, all the teammates,
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: the whole entire team. He's with the group, hooded sweatshirt on.
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: And then there was another I'm gonna forget it might
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: been Eric Garner.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: Maybe in New York. I can't breathe, and he wasn't
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: sure if he was going to do a T shirt.
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: He was sort of in and out in twenty twenty two.
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: Things.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: What twenty sixteen with Trump seemed to ignite him a
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: little bit. I mean is the famous you bum tweet,
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: which is pretty funny because.
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: Trump went after him, and of correct, you know, Lebron
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: it's funny. He is just like us in that he
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: lets social media get under his skin everyone.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: So, for sure, one hundred percent he's very much in
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: on social media.
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: And then the most involved he got was twenty twenty
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: in the bubble, which again I mean that's we'll look
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: back in that fifty years from now and just a million.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: Everybody did this was George Floyd. This was sort of right.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: It's like people getting involved in the civil rights movement
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: in the sixties. It just wasntrect like everybody was getting
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: involved on and it wasn't specific. I mean again, they
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: were very specific what they did. Him and his guy.
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: He had this guy, Adam Mendelssohn, who's uh, who's Donold
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: Schwarzenegger's communications Guy's his communications guy. And well Lebrons group
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: are really good at They're great at finding experts what
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: they want to do, and that we find the experts
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: to execute it. So they get all these people from
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: the political field.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna forget there. You would if I told you
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: the names, you would know all them.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: No, But I knew about Mendelssohn and a few others. No,
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: he's he's careful. He doesn't do stuff, but whether it's
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: business or politics or culture, he does seem to be
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: calculating and careful.
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: And they're right.
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: It wasn't about there was not voting. It was there
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: very specific. It wasn't about a specific candidate. It wasn't
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: about vote for Joe Biden. It was let's mobilize and
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: let's vote and make sure we can vote. That's an
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: American right. There's nothing political, which whatever, but there's nothing
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: political about getting out to vote. And that was what
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: the how they pushed it. So I and and since then, honestly,
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: it's like you said, he might have endorsed. He might
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: have endorsed Biden his last I don't remember what.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: He did, and I'm sure he endorsed Commel. I'm not
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: saying he didn't. I mean, my goodness. The NBA, you know,
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: I always say this. You know, the NFL is the
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: truly the only equally divided fan base. It really looks
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: like America. It is, Yes, it is fifty to fifty.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: NBA leans left, golf lean's right, Baseball leans right, Hockey
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: leans right, like you know, you know, show me your
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: fan base and I'll show you which way they lean exactly,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: you know, and you know, so there certainly is an
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: assumption of Lebron's politics, but I've always thought he was
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: put it this way. He wasn't nearly as front facing
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: as Kareem was in his heyday.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: No, not even close, not even close.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: And the only thing is, I would say, so there
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: was one point around twenty twenty where it seemed like
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: he was thinking he wanted to maybe position himself as
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: that get that where he has like he's walking out
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: with Malcolm X books and again, but this is twenty twenty,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: and like he's I mean, twenty twenty, he was just
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: we could throw it out the window in terms of
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: what people were doing and how people are approaching things.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: But he did seem to sort of be sort of
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: be dabbling in some of that stuff. I think he rightfully.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's his specialty, and I think he's
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: been smart to sort of pull back on that a
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: little bit. So that's the only thing I would say.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: But the other part is the Laura Ingram shut up
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: and dribble right now.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: Was the other thing, which was again we talk about
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: coded and not even coded right and now that cross
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: that across the line, and that also ignited and that
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: sort of set them off.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: In a way too.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: No, it's always I've always thought Lebron was a reactive
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: political person, not.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: A It's a great way to put it in person.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: I like, that's a great way to put it.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, well let me get you out of here
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: on this. In twenty years, Lebron is going to be
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: we know, Look, we can have the goat conversation. I
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: actually somebody who thinks that Magic Johnson should be in
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: the in a three way conversation with with Jordan and Lebron.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: And my argument is, you know what Jordan and Lebron
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: didn't do. They didn't win a title in their first year.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: They didn't take a team that didn't make the playoffs
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: and win it.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: And I love it.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, if not for HIV, does
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: Magic have six rings and Michael has five? And what's
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: the conversation? Right?
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: Like, we could?
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: I could, I could have that, so I will. I'm
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: and I've always thought Lebron is if you if you
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: went to a lab and you and you your two
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: ingredients were Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan, you would get Lebron, right,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: Like Lebron is the best of both them. So legacy
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: stuff aside that the six titles versus ten finals, that's
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: you know, that's always going to be the marker that
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: one person makes one argument to say it's Lebron, another
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: person makes the Ergan sage Jordan. But the one place
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: he has a chance to surpass Michael and Magic is
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: in being a front office guy and a right Magic
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: was terrible as a coach, terrible as a GM. Michael
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: terrible as a GM, terrible as an owner. We have
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: first head experience here in Washington and we've watched the
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: debacle that is Charlotte. Is that what Lebron is? There
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: a competitiveness in him that he sees an opportunity that
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: he gets to have a legacy that that nobody else
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: of the NBA all time greats have had. He can
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: also be as successful on the business side too.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: That's a great question. I don't know if he's comparing
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: to Jordan. I do think that's something he cares about, right,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: I do think being remembered in terms of as a success.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: And we see he's a billion dollars, like he's already
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: been there, and you know, he's sort of approached the business.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: He's been one of these guys who's been into like
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: we get equity and companies. That's going way back already
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: since you know, since he was twenty, which was insane.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: If you think of all the mistakes Magic made early on, he's.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: Correct, right, Yeah, just I mean the the the IQ
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: just it's through the charts, off the charts. I do.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: I think the legacy is gonna be maybe different the ownerships.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: I think the legacy is gonna be an all time
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: great who was different than everyone else, right in terms
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: of being remembered as between the longevity, the player empowerment stuff,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: that's gonna be a huge part of it. I'm like you,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: I joked that there's like forty top ten players, right,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: not top three, but like if you start naming top
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: ten guys and you named Jerry and Magic and Kareem
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: and Shack and you get to thirty five of them, right,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: So it's kind of like he's I don't know how
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: to discern between any of them.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, well, look at baseball, how do you have
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: the show hate conversation versus A's and and you know
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: we all had the official line back in the day
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: of May and and and and Ruth and now you're like, well,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: what do we do with shohek? You know, totally changes
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: that conversation.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: Right, So the ownership part is interesting too because it
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: also maybe and this is I'm thinking about it, like
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: if it went poorly, it would really I think it
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: would hurt him, maybe more than it hurt Jordan and
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: magic as well.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: And that's also interesting.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: Interesting, huh just because the expects It's because that expectations
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: bar is so high.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and almost like again talk to some of this
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: stuff where we talk about and for whatever reason, he's
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: not the love necessarily the same way. It's like you're
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: starting at a low. It's like you're starting at a
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: five instead of a ten, right, and it cannock you lower,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: you know, you have It's almost like more to lose
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: or whatever. As opposed to Jordan. I mean, the Jordan thinks, wow,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: nobody cares what he did any point he can like
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: he speaks on NBC Now for three minutes, and people
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: think it's the greatest interview of all time, right' I.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: Don't get it.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: I mean I don't find Jordan's you know, I find
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: Jordan's criticism of of players not playing every game to
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: be totally naive of what the game is today. Of course,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: Like it's just like it's just he feels like a
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: guy that doesn't even watch the current NBA if this
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: is what he thinks.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: No, it was so predictable.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: Also, like you knew, like with Jordan on load management,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: they would like they kept hyping that and I could
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: tell you I was going to say, then we knew
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: what to say.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: Right, he's wearing the same suit.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: It seems like they talked him once for like twenty
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: five minutes and chomping exactly what they did.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, and everyone but people are eating it up.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: So I don't know. The Jordan thing is the whole
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: sid I don't know. It's like this aura around.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: Now there's a Greta Garbo. I mean not to go
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: back way. I mean he's in a super old reference, right,
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: but that was the old joke. She stopped talking to
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: the press. So anytime you heard a quote of Greta
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: gar oh my god, we've heard from it's like with
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: Jordan's weirdly, he never talks, so whenever you know it's
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: By the way, this is a good reminder if you're
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: super famous with holding your comments on things could then
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: make whatever you say down the road more interesting than correct.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 3: So yeah, so it's just I don't know how anyone
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: competes the Jordan. I get that's I guess that's what
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: I'm saying. I don't know how you compete with that, right,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 3: It just I don't know.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: All right, you do a book tour. We were in
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: the midst of it, in the midst of it, yes, yeah,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: is it? How much of it is physical?
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: How much of it is most virtual? Yeah, most is virtual?
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: And you say this year's year of twenty twenty five.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: You know, well, I know you you what kind of
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: reception are you getting from a lebron world and what
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: kind of reception are you from Laker world?
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: So the Laker world, I mean it's gonna open. The
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: Lakers threatened to ssue me before this book came.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: Out, So that was that was fun before the book
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: came out.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: Over what not checking the well, they hired this guy,
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: but they they hired Marty Singer, who was a famous
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: defamation lawyer before they got the fact check, so they
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 3: would claim it's a fact check, but they doesn't line up.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: So yeah, so that was good. The Laker world is.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: There's nothing that gives a book more promotion than some
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: Yahoo threatening to sue it.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: I agree, and I joke that I should thank him
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: for the marketing, you know, I kind of I was
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: going to send Geny Bussey thank you note, you know,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: and uh, Lebron World. They're fine with it. It's fine,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: you know, Laker World's interesting. I'll get a quick it's
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: been interesting. Lakers fans seem less interested in learning behind
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: the scenes of the family. The book's doing fine, it's not,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: but like, it's been interesting to hear Lakers fans not
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: interested in learning about I wrote a book on the Sixers.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: Sixers fans want to hear every single thing that's happening
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: in front office.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: You wrote thinks process and that wra why things might
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: not go well.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: Laker fans get very defensive, which is it's interesting sociologically.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: Well, I think if you're a Laker fan, frankly, you
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: always know that it always works out.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: That's what I think. That's what it is.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sorry, you're like, wow, they picked they
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: picked eight and got Kobe Bryant. You're like, I mean,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: I'll never forget that. You're like, oh r, what does
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: Jerry West know about this? Like the minute they drafted
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: the guy, You're like, oh, Jerry West must know something
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: that none of us know yet. Joe Bryant's kid must
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: be that good, you know, of course, right, and he
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: gets them eight?
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: Right? Seven? What is it?
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: Seven teams passed up on Kobe.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: It's wild, it's and then that's gonna Yeah, it's it's wild.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: It's wild. Yeah, So yeah, I think I think you're right.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: Always works out for the Lakers. They always get shocked,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: they even if they don't get the guy the first time, right, yep, exactly, No,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: not like we're the looved Knicks who never get that guy. No,
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: and yet Knicks fans always think they're going.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: To get that guy coming.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: Lebron is coming.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: They never come for sure for sure, And like Lakers
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: even Luca fell into the lap last year.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: Now they're set for ten years, you know.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: So all right, why haven't you done the why can't
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: the Knicks win book?
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: I've been told that, Uh, people like positive books, That's
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: what I've been told. That's uh, that's interesting.
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: We're right, you got to get people hope.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: Right, So the right you know, Jim Dolan is the
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: kind of a buffoon is not.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: Gonna the Knicks though, or it is amazing the amount
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: of devotion they have for a franchise that really is
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: one of the most failing franchises in the history of
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: the NBA.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: It's wild, it's kind of it.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: It's like special about it, you know, it's it's it's
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: it's yeah, it's like a it's they they hate the ownership,
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: they love the team, but they know there's a fatalism
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: to it. Is a mix of fatalism and hope, which
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: is really strange.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's wild.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: No, I mean it's funny.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: It's always supposedly, you know, Knicks fans are also Yankees
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: fans and Giants fans supposedly, while the Nets fans are
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: more likely to be Jets fans and Mets fans. And
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: to me, the Knick's history feels more like the Jets
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: and Mets than.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: One hun hundred percent. It lines up with that for
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: one hundred percent.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: Anyway, Well, this was great. You think Lebron would ever
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: run for office?
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: Oh? Great question. I've not been asked that. Uh No,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. I'm gonna say no, that's interesting. No,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: I don't think So do you think he wants to
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: be a.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: Kingmaker literally in the world of politics? Does he do?
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: Because that's what Arnold would do for a while until
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: he finally got dragged in that. You know, Arnold is
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: an interesting model for how you can be a celebrity
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: dabble in politics and then maybe do it for a
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: small period of time but still keep your celebrity. I
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: Arnold's been the best at that compared to celebrities turned politicians.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: I think we're going to see Lebron I think almost.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 3: I think Magic Johnson is almost the closer. The come
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: more of the comp in terms of the business, the
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: business stuff, and we're seeing.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: A little of the media and pot. I mean, he's
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: only DraftKings ads now, which I don't really understand.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: But I don't either, But can I just tell you, man,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: the Kevin Hart Lebron ads are really good. I mean
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: they humanize Lebron in a way that nobody else does, which.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: Might be the point, right, but just I think it
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: seems like to me, even that weird Hennis, which we
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: need to the Hennessy ad or the fake Decision thing,
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 3: which was not great, it seems to me we're we're
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: reinvesting in uh in brands and you know, business side
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: of things in an interesting way.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: So that's what I would guess we're headed. In terms
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: of the post playing career.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: Does Lebron write his own book hm I or does
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: he instead do a big documentary.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: I was going to say this is again it depresses me,
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: but this is where we are these days. I mean,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: he's got cameras following him around already. They'll do they
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: already have that, like they'll do their version of the
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 3: Last Dance again. We'll compare it to Jordan. It's gonna
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: be a documentary.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: I hope we get a book like again the guy
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: the writer reader and me wants but you know again
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty five.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: So yeah, But then there's some things. You know, sometimes
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: you don't want a book written until after the person dies.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: And I hate to put it those ways, but it's,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: you know, will people around them tell you the real
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: truth while the person is stolen.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: Oh for sure from another. In terms of someone doing
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: the biography on him, correct, yeah. In terms of him
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: doing his own one, yeah no, I I he doesn't
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: participate in any long form interviews now, like they don't
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: do it basically for the most part, because it's why would.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: You do that?
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't call him a white whale, but I've
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: probably I've you know, gotten close to striking up a
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: Relationshipip Maverick a number of times in order to try
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: to get Lebron and it's it's it's it's even in
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: the you know, and he's certainly at some point suddenly
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: didn't want to be interviewed by a political journalist, right
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: like that just that was not the image they wanted.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So, like I said, they have, I think we'll
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: see Netflix documentaries and things like that.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this was great. I appreciate it. Congrats, you're on.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: This was This was terrific and uh, I can't wait
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: to finish it.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. It's a lot of fun. I
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: love this. It's great.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Chuck excellent. Well, good luck with it. And
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: if nothing else, we're in November. You don't know what
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: to get your NBA fan in your life? There you
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: go get them the book and get them a hard
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: copy of it. Anyway, did you do your own audio
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: this time?
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: I did not. I did my last one and not
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: to sound spoil it was the.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: It's the whole I found doing your own audio and
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: a book is painful. It's so hard. I think it's
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: really hard.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: It's and then I'm catching typos and it's making me
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: angry because you're reading that.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: That's what I hated about it.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: It's a terrific exercise. It really frees. But you sit
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: there and you're going, oh my god, how many times
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: did I use this phrase? Oh my god, we got
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: to fix it, and then they tell you it's too
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: late to fix.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: Really torture, right.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 3: It'd be great if, though, you know, if you weren't where,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 3: if writers weren't all the statement going up against the deadline,
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: if you gave yourself like, okay, i'll do the audiobook.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 3: I'll read it outloud now because I have a two
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: weeks extra until and that's obviously never the case. So
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 3: it's aside from the actual torture of reading it over
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 3: and over, like it's your torturing yourself, seeing mistakes and
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: bad phrases and just you walk out there and be like,
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: oh this is awful.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: What is this? So yeah, no, not this time.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: Well, I hope you enjoyed. My guess is you're going
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: to hear people use nuggets of your book like during
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: Lakers games by guys like Mike Breen and Tarrico who
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: probably are all devouring it as we speak. So that'll
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: be a lot of fun for you.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: I hope, so, I hope.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: So.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: Thanks Jock, my friend, it's.
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