Latest / Alive & Kicking: Stories of Waking Up with Kay Eck / Interview with Caitlin Slade | Awakening Self Compassion

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Interview with Caitlin Slade | Awakening Self Compassion · Alive & Kicking: Stories of Waking Up with Kay Eck

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Kay Eck, and welcome to my podcast, Alive and Kicking, Stories of Waking Up.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the podcast, everybody.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you're here with me, and I'm so glad to introduce you to a new friend of mine, Caitlin Slate.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Caitlin.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Hi.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited to talk to you today.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Our paths have not crossed in person, but I've been kind of following you on social media, which I love.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Your artwork is phenomenal, and you have such beautiful things to say and really provocative things that you share.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope we can get into some of that today.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: But let's start, let's roll the clock back a little bit and start at the beginning.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me a little bit about your childhood?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, I was homeschooled my whole like from start to finish.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um there were times growing up I I had three siblings.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all of them were adopted except for me, but I I'm the second oldest.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: My parents, uh, my mom found out that she couldn't have biological children, or that's what they told her.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, my parents adopted my older sister, and then lo and behold, about eight months later, my mom finds out that she's pregnant with me.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um so she had me, and then we adopted two more kids from North uh sorry, South Korea, my little brother and sister Grace and Dan, and my older sister Claire.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we were all like pretty close growing up, and um we were all homeschooled, me and my older sisters from start to finish.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: And there were times growing up where I wished I could go to public school because I would see like in movies and TVs, like you go and you have all these friends, and I had this like very like Hollywood idea of what it's like to go to school.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um, in retrospect, though, I'm so grateful to my mom that she honestly she gave up her career, she was an attorney to come home and teach us.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like the most selfless giving act like anybody could ever do for their kids, in my opinion.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then I I just had a good experience.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I had a better quality of education, it was more personalized to me, but also I was so cripplingly shy as a child and just was full of this like insecurity and self-doubt that I think um just trying to like survive that in a public or even private school environment would have been a nightmare for me and would have really detracted from my freedom to learn and not only that, but like play and figure out who I was and just um yeah, like enjoy my life more and spend more time doing things that I enjoy and exploring and mostly playing.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really big on that, like even now.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's very valuable.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, I love that.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there are middle school students all over the world who could disabuse you of the notion that there's any kind of Hollywood glamour involved in middle school.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's uh I mean from what I heard from other people, it sounds pretty awful, actually, or a lot of it.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean Yeah, I call it the black hole.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: I there were like other homeschooled moms who'd be like, oh, the prisons of public schools, and I'd be like, Yeah, okay, but I don't know.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: The thing I feel like a lot of that is just kind of conditioning kids to get ready to like join the workforce and like not be home all day and stuff like that.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's true.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of the sad truth about it.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like all of the um natural curiosity and creativity because I have four kids, and what I saw in them, their their natural aptitudes and um interests were just like modified, like middle efied, you know, just yeah, totally.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh I mean my little brother and sister ended up going to public school for middle and high school because they have some learning issues that needed to be addressed that my mom um did her best to try to help them with.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: But uh the school district that we grew up in, they actually have a pretty good reputation for handling things like that.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And they had a really good experience with that.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: But and then you know, there's gifted programs and stuff like that, but I just think there's so much like neurodiversity and like different kinds of intelligence, and when you have this like big system, it's just you can't like recognize and cater to everybody.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I understand homeschooling is not feasible for everybody, and I've heard from a lot of my friends that have kids with the COVID and the e-learning and stuff, it's a real challenge, but um, I think that's one of the good things that will come out of the coronavirus is that homeschooling will become more accepted and not only that, but like celebrated, which as someone who considers myself like a success story for homeschooling, that's pretty exciting to hear.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's amazing that people can do it without any real support, you know.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I'm I'm sure there are dads homeschooling, especially now, but um yeah, so that that shyness that you um had, was that something that you had from the time you were small, or did it develop at some point?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: What was the origin of it?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was kind of born that way.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I I have memories being like a really, really, really little kid and my dad telling me, like, you know, when someone's talking to you, you can't keep looking away.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like it you need to like look people in the eye when you're talking to them.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, things like that, up until honestly, probably only like 10 years ago, seemed like impossible for me to like hold eye contact with somebody.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, even someone I like and trust.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: It just felt like this like mounting discomfort.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think all of it kind of came down to um this like insecurity and thinking that there I'd never really fit in anywhere, and there's too many things about me that are just like off and like distasteful or something.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I don't know like where that came from because my parents are always like probably typical millennials.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: My parents always like praise me for everything that I did right and um you know try to tell me that I was special and I could do whatever I wanted, but I think there I was just born.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um I heard this comedian that I really love, Theo Vaughn, the other day.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I was born with an uncomfortable spirit, and that resonated with me so much because I think, like, instead of sitting around and trying to figure out like why is it my natural inclination to be like a very honestly like negative, pessimistic, defeatist kind of person that feels really bad and has a low opinion of themselves, instead, just like accept I was born with an uncomfortable spirit.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now, how do I still find a way to like be myself and enjoy my life and just like embrace and like take in all the good and like not let those inclinations like hold me back or um make me like question what I know to be true about myself?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it I was just born with it.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's a more of a matter of like figuring out how do you deal with that.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I that makes me think of one of my kids uh when they were younger, they they from the time they were really small, um, they had a some weight on them.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um at night he would dream and have these uh really intense struggles as a as like a one-year-old or a two-year-old, you know, because um they were uh intense, like he would be almost like moaning and and it was often, and sometimes he would uh just uh be really melancholy for no reason.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's at times like that that uh as a parent you kind of think like they obviously came in with something, some agenda, some past, like something that's when I started to believe in past lives because yeah, it was it's clear that some people come in with just the type of struggles that you're talking about.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like it doesn't make sense.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Were you born into a nice family?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: You had food on the table, you were relatively safe, um, you know, things like that.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's do you ever think that it might be something that you worked with in the past, past life?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, 100%.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean yeah, because there I've had many, you know, I've I've had a rough couple of years, but you know, when times are really good and I find myself falling in into like a depression or just generally feeling down or like something's like off and I can't figure out what it is, I know that it it's probably gotta be something beyond what uh I can maybe like explain away in five minutes to myself.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's gotta be something like beyond my understanding of how time works and how the universe actually functions.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I haven't I haven't done actually done any of the past life or any of the like shadow work or anything like that, but I'm curious um to look into that at some point because I think it could maybe give us a lot more insight into why the why we are the way that we are.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's it's an interesting avenue to explore.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've had um a couple of experiences of past lives just uh sort of came to me.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um I have heard and I also believe that like everything that we need to resolve or know about ourselves, we carry with us into this lifetime.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: I totally believe that.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you don't necessarily have to look into the past lives.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: You can, it's interesting and it might be helpful, but you actually don't really have to to do what you you what you came to do in this lifetime.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's good to get that insight, but I mean it's not necessary, but having that insight could definitely be very valuable.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: So what happened after high school then?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, I had I don't know, I had kind of a weird trajectory because I actually finished high school when I was 15 and then I like officially graduated when I was 16.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: And my last year of high school I did dual enrollment at College of DuPage.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um and because I was just I was like, oh, I'm just so done with being homeschooled.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ready to like get out in the real world, like what's next?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I was eager to see like um, I don't know, I just I was like, okay, I'm ready to like get out of the house and like see what's next for me.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was really excited about the idea of going to school and being able to take courses and things that I'm like interested in and start like building a future versus just like okay, I gotta get all this stuff out of the way before I can move forward, and now I can actually start making decisions about my future.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I kind of like rushed through, I made this like plan for my academics in high school so I could finish early and like um was just like hammering away at that.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was on the high school on the swim team and just the last year was real busy and it was hard.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, so I started going to COD full-time.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: I was still living at home because I was a kid.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and a little bit before that, I actually had developed problems with my eating, and I started to get real depressed.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think that was like a huge distraction and a detraction away from like this very crucial period in of your life.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it put me really out of touch with myself.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think for years, it just like really drew this line between me and everything that I know about myself and all the like good things that I know about myself.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: I became like so self-critical.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I became really obsessed with like trying to control what's right in front of me because I was so I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life, but I felt all this pressure, which in retrospect I put on myself because my parents never said, like, oh, you need to be this superstar, like, you know, you need to be a doctor by the time you're 22.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, none of that.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: They never put any of that on me.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: It was all me being like, you know, I want to show people how smart I am and like finish high school early and finish college early.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: And but I had no idea what I wanted to do.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just I kept changing majors.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um felt like I was just kind of throwing money away, and um I was just real confused.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I got I kind of fell deeper and deeper into the eating disorder stuff and um was becoming like more and more depressed.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um I moved out when I was 18 and started going to school in the city.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Became I worked a bunch of weird jobs, like was a bike messenger for like two years and just a bunch of random things, trying to figure out like what do I do from here.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: I stopped going to school.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was just kind of like winging it and just kind of floating around for years.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I still feel like I'm sort of in that place, but I kind of embrace it.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, um, you know, they say what's changed a lot between our generation and like not necessarily Gen X, but like baby boomers, is that it used to be, you know, you'd work one career like most of your life, and now millennials have like five to six careers during their lifetime.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I just I feel like I in trying to get a head start and like prove to myself and the world that I'm like gonna be intelligent, gonna be really uh successful because I'm intelligent and I've got it all together and I've got it all figured out and blah blah blah.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: In trying to like create that uh version of myself, I like totally betrayed who I actually am and only ended up setting myself backwards.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: And in a lot of ways, I feel like the last couple years is that coming to a head, and now I'm doing a lot of the work that I should have done back then.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's okay.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't, I don't think, I don't believe that everything happens for a reason, but I do totally believe in the timing of things.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, um back then, like you know, like 15 years ago, I was like, I didn't know what I was doing, and I was like so so obsessed with like wanting everybody to think that I have have it all figured out and I'm gonna be like totally successful, but I there was so much work that I hadn't done like inside, I wasn't even ready to like begin thinking about that, you know what I mean?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um so like over the last couple of years, that's forced me to totally re-jigger my definition of like personal success, you know what I mean?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, because I I can't even like relate to who I was back then, yeah.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and you think about um the way that we raise our children, um we don't we just set them on this path and we don't teach them how to do that inner work.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we don't uh show them that the things that are happening in their world are meant for them to to to hold a mirror to themselves, to look and see who am I, what do I really want and how to investigate that.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: We just so you're it would be rare to find a 17, 18, 19, 20-year-old who is doing the work of figuring out who they are and what they really want out of life, because we just haven't trained our children to do that work, and so now like the population as a whole is having to go through that um that exploration, and it it's tough, isn't it?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's not an easy path, yeah.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Not at all.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't because I don't think you're necessarily I think it's work that never ends, also is the other thing.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I I just think uh we have like, but we I feel like we like fool ourselves over and over again in life because like back then, yeah, I I I think you know, like, oh, if I can just figure out a plan and if I have like a vision and like break it down into steps, and then once I complete all these steps, then I will have like arrived and like uh actualized or what like whatever term you want to use.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like life is actually um a bunch of different like kinds and like versions of that process, but it never ends.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like you might have like that process going on in like four or five different areas of your life, and it never it never ends, it just keeps going.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you can, and that's not to say like, oh, you should feel like totally overwhelmed and like crushed by that being a fact, it should almost be kind of a relief that like you're not racing to like get anywhere, you know what I mean?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're all just here like figuring it out as we go along, and you're trying to get the learn as much as you can and like take everything that you can out of everything, no matter like how small or big it is, how horrible or amazing it is, and it's just um it's a process, and then we also we never know we're gonna go.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: We know like I could walk outside right now and get hit by a car and killed.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, like um, I don't know if that does anything to support my, but you know what I mean.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like um, I think it's really important to accept the fact that we don't always know not only like how things are gonna go, but we should almost embrace the fact that we don't and just like assume that we don't have as much control over things as we think that we do.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's very freeing.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I was I think I was I was thinking about this a lot when I was writing my book, this uh my second book, and I I really was contemplating the unknown quite a bit.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I what occurred to me, of course, it's like seems so obvious, but how incredibly boring it would be if you knew everything that was gonna happen.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so boring.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is the what would be the point of living?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you already knew it's like uh then you'd really be like a robot, just like oh, I guess I'm doing this now, you know.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And if we didn't have um a lot of the like challenges and the difficult things that come our way, if we didn't have those things to go through, we would lack so much depth, and we would lack we wouldn't even be able to appreciate the good things that happen to us nearly as much as that we do because we never experience hardship.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: So this this uh way that you so I guess would you say that the eating disorder was a result of your disconnection with yourself, or did it uh did it cause the disconnection?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think it started with an initial like uh yeah, just kind of like denial of my true nature because I thought I had to like be somebody else.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, there's a lot of stigma.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's getting better, but um initially I think it was a way of like dealing with these a lot of like negative emotions that were coming up for me as I was maturing, and then it just sort of compounded.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's there's so many things about eating disorders that are um it's really like insidious and it's like a vicious cycle, but it's like almost every aspect of your life that it affects, that's how it works, you know, where it might start with one thing and you're trying to like control that or minimize that or improve that, and in doing so, you just kind of make it worse.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it definitely started with that, and then that just kind of kept feeding into it.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like eating disorders, like you said, they're particularly intractable.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, how have you been able to kind of turn the tide on that and start the self-exploration?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how did you figure out that that's what you needed to do?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then how did you did you do that?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, it's like just being totally honest, it's like an ongoing battle, um, especially when for me it's been 15 years almost, um just half my life.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I think that it it just it sounds very, very basic, but it it took me a long time to realize that like I need if I truly want to be a kind and compassionate person, then I have to be able to show that same kindness and compassion to myself.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's the exact same thing as um people always say, like, you could never truly love somebody until you love yourself.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same thing.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: So even if it has nothing to do with food, nothing to do with body image, um, just for me, if I want to um be myself, who I know is like this empathetic, compassionate person, I have to extend the same kindness to myself that I do other people before I can even do that for other people.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, it's like part of my language, but it's bullshit, like it's disingenuous on my part.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it I and also it helps to because I think most I think a lot of people struggle with this in general, and not saying it's like unique to people with eating disorders, but 100% the black and white thinking is like one of the hardest things.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um especially with like bulimia, the black and white thinking is just I mean, you like lose whole days and like weeks of your life to it.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um so breaking things down in terms of like I won this battle, I won this battle, I won this, the war is my whole life, unfortunately.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like some I've heard of a lot of people that you know they say like I'm 100% recovered, never looking back.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: I personally don't understand how it's possible.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying I doubt those people.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying for me, I don't understand, like I really don't think that's a possibility.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: So if, but instead of being black and white and being like, well, then I'm screwed, I'm gonna die.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: My life is horrible.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, I can look at it as unfortunately, from the time I was 14, 15, whatever, until then in my life, like this is the war that I personally have to fight.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, every day, every meal, every snack, whatever, every like weird situation where I'm like, oh my god, what do I do here?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is a battle.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: And if I can just win that battle, then it increases my odds of winning the war.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so and I could choose instead to look at it as like, oh, I'm just trapped in this um purgatory and this survival mode, and I'm never gonna be free.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm never gonna truly get everything I want out of life because I'm always gonna be trapped in this.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, no, instead, I could look at it as what's the next thing, what's the next thing?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: What's the next thing?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's this guy.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I can't remember his name.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: This is like very nerdy guy with glasses and a mustache.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a police and fire dispatcher.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: This guy is like uh I guess Graham something.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: He does like motivational talks for cops and stuff like that.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And he always says this thing, when what's important now?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that is like so, it's like my number one thing.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's kind of basic, it's like a little bit cheesy, but literally what's important right now.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's just kind of the approach that I've been taking the last couple of years.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, you know, and everybody slips up, everybody has mistakes, everybody has good days and bad, but I truly believe that I'm stronger than any anything that I might have to fight for my life in.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I do have great hope.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not and for anybody that's suffering, I have great hope.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you are if you're determined enough, like maybe you aren't gonna just come out the gate and like defeat the thing and like oh, life is all sunshine and roses now.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, it's this is hard work and it's work that has to be done every second of every day.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Some days are easier, some days are harder.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, if you just keep that mentality of like I want to win the war, so today I have to win these battles, then yeah, it's kind of all you can do.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's interesting because everybody has this, everybody is put on this path of self-discovery.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes, I mean, I I don't think I know anybody who has entered into that exchange from a position of roses and candy canes.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's all it always comes, they always come to the path through the garden of struggle.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yours just looks like that, and mine looks like mine, and everybody has their own way, you know.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I think if you if you if people can see it that way, then the the pain of it isn't quite so devastating because it can be devastating, you know, to be on these very challenging paths, which apparently your soul chose for you.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, no, no, nobody's perfect.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think to assume that like just because you look at somebody and you think they have it all together that that person doesn't experience some kind they don't have some kind of ongoing, horrifying nightmare in their life to assume that is pretty yeah silly because everybody everybody's going through something no matter, even if to you it's not that big of a deal.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: But that's like I said, it's that I'm not the kind of person that would say, like, oh, it's a gift, like it's a gift when bad things happen and there's a silver lining and everything, and everything happens for a reason.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that at the end of the day, if you process things in the correct way, and if you have the right attitude, then you can get way more out of it, and it makes life more fulfilling to like have that perspective of to know what it's like to be in like the depths of hell and feel like you're never gonna be able to pull yourself out, and then you do, yeah.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that just gives you momentum to keep moving forward, and you can remember that the next day that you have, which is worse than this one that you got through it, is like very, very powerful and uplifting, and it came from inside of you, like you did that.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that is powerful.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, do you see yourself as being on a spiritual path?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I do.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think I spent many years, especially in adulthood, um, trying to, I was just so negative, Kay, like so pessimistic for years, and uh thinking, you know, of like feeling depressed and whatever, like that, the eating stuff, just like this is how I am, oh well, and like it is what it is.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um my ex-husband would always say to me, be your friend today, like be be your own best friend today.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I, to his credit, I spent years thinking, like, that is so reductionist, and it's like insulting to me, like I'm suffering, you know, I'm mentally ill.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like how could you say that to me?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: And but it's like, but he was right, like um that's just kind of the the approach that I take now is like if I if I can like keep doing this work on like that disconnection that I feel like I was born with, the disconnection from myself.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um if I can like keep chipping away at that and working on that, then that's gonna be the most important work of my life.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: So uh um at times it's like I wish I hadn't opened the door, like it would be easier to just be like, hmm, uh like I'm sad, I'm salty, everybody leave me alone, this sucks.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, like trying to like keep looking up and keep moving forward and like what can I get out of this?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what can I pull out of this?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: What can I use out of this situation to like help then go on and like help somebody else later on down the line?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like having that approach to life has been so much more valuable to me than just being this like shut down, like I don't even want to look in there.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, yeah.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like you have to be fully healed in order to help other people?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't I don't think so.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think that us in us working on our own healing, we can help other people and vice versa.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think that even just I don't want to say it's something as simple because it's so loaded and it feels very risky, but something as like simple as being open and vulnerable with other people to admit like, yes, I have felt those depths of despair before, or like when I feel like that, this is what I do, and I'm not just trying to blow sunshine up your ass.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I truly understand what how you feel right now, and you are not alone.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, um it on its face, it's basic, but it's courageous, and I think when you can do that, you can potentially like save somebody's life just because it's happened for me.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just being that open and vulnerable with somebody to admit that like you're not alone, I understand how you feel, um, or even just something as simple as like, I have no idea what you're talking about, I don't understand at all, but your feelings are valid, is like very, very powerful.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um that's kind of like my greatest hope for humanity.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is that we can just kind of open up the conversation, get get rid of the stigma, and just admit.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's something that will come out of this uh COVID, because I know like a lot of people have been a little bit more open about their struggles with things, and yeah.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I think that that can be really powerful, just yeah, being open.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it really is.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of have the image in my mind always that we're all on a ladder, we're all on this ladder toward understanding, let's say.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's understanding of the self.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: And once you have the understanding of the self, then you start to understand the larger world.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: But you're really only required to help the one person behind you.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you like you don't have to save the world, just help that person and look and let the person ahead of you help you, you know.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: If then we all have to just help one person and then it's we got it.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: We got this.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you don't have to save the save the world or like start a foundation or an organization or anything.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's I totally agree with that.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Next person in line behind you.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: The beautiful, beautiful system.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: So do you um this?
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love that that uh what's important now mantra, it's it it's really uh that's really fascinating to me.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of like the same thing as uh keep it in the present moment.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, don't let yourself uh go too far out into the future or too far back into the past.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm wondering if you see the you know looking forward into the future an impediment to your to your healing or to your progress.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: There were times I it's interesting that you say that because I hadn't really acknowledged that, but I think it's true because um wow, yeah.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you think about it, it's like going back to my childhood, it's like trying to look forward to the future, putting all this pressure on myself, like, oh, you need to have it all figured out, and um trying to plan ahead, and and then you know, things happen in life where you realize, like, oh, okay, this isn't gonna go how I thought it was, and it just throws you for your for a loop, and you're like, Well, I don't know where to go from here.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do I have to burn everything down and start all over?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Or it just causes like so much anxiety and presentiment about, and then it goes back to the whole like trying to control everything and thinking things have to happen in a certain order.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that's why that mantra resonates with me so much.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's kind of like what we were talking about earlier: that your life will present you with what you need to work on now.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you never have to worry about more than that, because your life is always going to be bringing you something that you need to face or know or deal with in the present moment.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so if it's almost like that, that's like the ultimate trust in life.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you can trust that life is that that's how it works, you're you're never gonna, you'll always need to know, you'll always know what you need to know in the moment.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you start like wanting to know what's gonna happen in the future, it's like a lack of trust.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then the whole thing seems to just the the wheels fall off the cart or something.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think um there's something really, really powerful in not, I don't want to say like assuming everything's gonna work out.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I never I think part of this comes from my job, but like I never tell myself or anybody else, like everything's gonna be okay.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because like, how do you know that?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: But like if you can just tell yourself whatever happens, I'm gonna figure it out.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna I'm gonna find a way to work through it, whatever happens.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's like a very comforting thing.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: And if you just like really believe that and like um almost like assume, yeah, that like whatever the next thing is, not not what happens like next week or next month or next year, but like whatever the next thing that happens is that I trust myself and I know that I'm strong enough to figure it out or and get through it somehow.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I am not gonna promise myself it's gonna be great or it's gonna be good or it's even gonna be okay.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because like you don't know that, but like if you could just say to yourself, I believe that we're gonna get through this, there's something like really, really powerful because that goes back to like letting go of that control, like wanting to try to control like what's what's gonna happen next, and um how can I like mitigate my risk and mitigate my harm and like whatever whatever's coming my way next?
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: If you just give it up and say whatever it is, yeah, I'm gonna get through it, get through to the other side and try to get what I can out of it.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Does your does your path or your way of dealing with life ever allow you to take a moment to kind of celebrate what you what you have accomplished and what you have gotten through?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, all the time, which is I find hard to believe still sometimes because I used to be so down on myself, you know what I mean?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: But now I'm at the point in my life where I celebrate literally every single little victory, every single little thing, even if like there, because I think that also like attracts the is gonna sound like so woo-woo, but like um it attracts the energy for like the everything that comes after that to also go smoothly.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: So like even if it's something like, uh, I gotta go to the DMV.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna like no matter what, this is gonna be a pain in the ass.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna have to wait in line, blah, blah, blah.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: You just go and like get it done, and then you're like, oh, I'm really grateful that I'm done with that.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Or like it could be like a big thing, a small thing, whatever.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: You just find something about it to be like, you know what, that worked out.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's pretty cool.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like really, really grateful for that.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: And just to put it out there that your mindset is like, I can't wait to see what else works out for me.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think that is way more powerful than I wanted to give it credit to because, like I said, I'm like, I'm hardwired to be like a very negative person.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you would not have caught me saying that a couple of years ago.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: I would be like, oh, it's just this like spiritual woo-woo, like claptrap, and it's not real.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: But um I think there's definitely power in like um, I don't know if you call it like I don't want to, I kinda I feel like the word manifestation has become kind of like trendy and a little bit like cringy, but that's really kind of the only applicable term.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're onto something when you talk about the energetics of it.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like a wishing, it's not like a wishing fountain, like where you throw your penny in and you know, poof, you get your magic wish, but it's it's the energetics, it's the physics of it that like attracts like that, you know, it's just as that.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: And your your path is kind of proof that uh it success doesn't necessarily mean that it looks a certain way, you know.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: It it could be it can still be gritty and still be good.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I that's kind of how I feel about, you know, the I've gotten to know you a little bit through your social media, which you know, typically you'd say, like, that's not a good way of getting to know someone.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: But the, you know, this sort of play that you have between the dark and the light that's clearly part of who you are is really fascinating to me.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's really beautiful too.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm glad that comes through.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, I try, I think who I really am that I kind of got like lost along the way, somewhere between like adolescence and adulthood, is that like dreamer and optimist?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: But then there's also like so I I like that's what I'm trying to kind of pull out of myself with a lot of my art, but then also on the same on the other side of the coin, or whatever you'd say, um, it's also like an outlet for expressing that stuff that we feel like it's like unspeakable.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's I feel like with my art, it's like a seesaw between those things, is like celebrating and reviving this, like these aspects of myself that I've denied for a really long time.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: And and also like letting go of this like darkness that I feel like is just like consumed too much of my life, finding ways to like express those things, and then a b a big theme of my art too is just like embracing the unknown and like embracing the fact that life is this very complex puzzle that you can't like you're never gonna have all the pieces to be able to solve, and that's okay because it's still fun trying to put the pieces together and trying to find um I don't know, yeah, yeah.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I really feel like that comes across.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I get that.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um all right.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this seems like it um might be a good time to switch over to our lightning round.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: Are you ready for that?
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so ready.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: As ready as you can be in the moment.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so here we go.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, what's a perfect day like for you?
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty basic.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: I like well get up, coffee, obviously, usually way too much, and then just um usually I post my art in the morning, and I try I try to do some like reading and I don't know, I don't want to like inundate myself with news and stuff like that.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I try to keep my mornings pretty low-key low-key, and then a bike ride for sure.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um I I like to spend time with the important people in my life and kind of just play it by ear.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: I like being outside more than anything.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so a day with like a sunny day with lots of time outside, spending time with people that I love, being active.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe put some art in there towards the end.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a night owl but go to bed early for once.
• 44:07
  unknown: Yeah.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that sounds great.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what do you love to waste time on?
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't know.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I feel like I well, not not really right now, but there's been many times where I feel like walking is kind of a waste of time, like uh like just kind of wandering around and having no agenda and using it to like procrastinate.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that, but I also love wasting time on Instagram, as you probably know.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: I really love that, like walking around for no reason other than to just waste time.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I need to do more of that.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like I feel like every time I'm out, I'm like, well, I should probably get some exercise, you know, so I'm gonna walk fast.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: I I feel like that's kind of a weird answer to your question because other people could see that as like exercise or whatever, but I often use walking to like procrastinate um or just kill or waste time, but I still get something out of it.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's not a complete time is wasted, yeah.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so if you had to choose one thing forever, would it be music or silence?
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: Music.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: I would choose silence.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think maybe someday my answer would change, but I'm not ready for that yet.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel that when I was your age, it would would have definitely been uh music, but I feel like I think it has something to do with raising four kids that it was it was just like craziness, you just years.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, unmitigated chaos of chaos, yeah.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: So now I that's what I I really value the most is the silence.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: What's your favorite smell?
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um I would have to say some like I love burning Palo Santo, it's just very like soothing to me.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's probably like in it that like earthiness and it just feels like calming to me.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think currently that's my favorite, but it changes a lot.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: So well, Palo Santo is one of my favorites too.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I found this um, it's like an essential oil, it's like a roll on and it's Palo Santo, so you can like put it on your neck when you go out and you smell it all the time.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's so unbelievable.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'll send you a link to it.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna get on it.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's really good.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you prefer cake or pie?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh pie.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: I actually had a bunch of birthdays as a kid where I had pie instead of cake.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: I like pie so much.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: Pie is like to me, it's like so sweet.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: I can't handle how sweet it is.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: I can't handle how sweet cake is either.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: I get that.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I feel like I've probably, well, I mean, I haven't had either for like so long, I couldn't even tell you whole disco like I mean, but um if I did, I probably would be shocked at how sweet they are.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, yeah.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: I would make a good Italian because that you know how there's they're like a cannoli is not that sweet.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: They're yeah, like just on the verge of sweet.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like a scone is my idea of a good dessert.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, scones are awesome, yeah, yeah.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what was the last great gift you got?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um a mountain bike, yeah.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: Wonderful, yeah.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so did you bring a question for me today?
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to ask you what is your what is your hope with everything that's happened this year, especially in our country, but kind of for all like with the coronavirus, like all humans are affected.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that so much has been exposed and so many people have been forced to slow down and take time to like look at themselves and look at like what they're doing or certain aspects of their life that they maybe haven't had time to because I mean all this stuff has affected everybody differently, but like given like everything that we've gone through up to this point, what is your biggest hope for humanity as a collective right now?
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for asking that because that's a big question, and um that it makes me happy to answer it.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um I feel that our collective rise is inevitable.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: And what I wish people knew was that the things that we have experienced in the in the you know, in the past, the things, the challenges that humanity has gone through are only possible because of the frequency where we were residing, the lack of awareness, the um, the just the density.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so that as we rise, we become capable of far more than we know ourselves to be currently capable of.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that to me is about experiencing unity, and it and the trajectory of that is to know yourself.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: So my hope is that so as everybody moves through this process of becoming known to themselves, the collective as a whole rises, and then we become capable of things that we've never been capable of before.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think that a lot of people know what that could look like just because it hasn't been accessible before now.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but my hope is that as this period that we're in that feels like a shit show, my hope is that people know one, that our rise is inevitable together as a collective, and that there are people out there who have gone before you, who are you know up there on the ladder ahead of you, who who their sole desire is to assist.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't want anybody to feel like the the support and the assistance is not there, it's there, it's just a matter of kind of calling it in for yourself, asking for help, um becoming vulnerable, being able to talk about what it is that you're dealing with and grappling with, and um, you know, that we can all move together.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's my hope.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I also feel like it's inevitable, it's it's gonna happen.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, so I'm I feel very hopeful about the future, but like everybody else, I don't enjoy what we're going through now, it's not that enjoyable, but I I understand the purpose of it, and I have trust and faith in life, yeah, me too.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm I have a lot of hope, but I have a lot of fear.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, well, my personal path has been about facing the fear, about really digging into it and trying to figure out what it is exactly that I'm afraid of.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know, like I had layers and layers and layers and layers of fear, and I just started dissecting it.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, here I am sitting in this house and I'm afraid to go outside.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why?
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: What am I afraid of?
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: What is that all about?
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the the dig the deeper you dig, the more elemental the question becomes.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, am I safe in the universe?
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: type thing.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, so I I can say that there's very few things that I'm afraid of now.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: There are a few, usually they have to do with um my kids.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not afraid of what's what will happen for them.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm afraid of what will happen to me if something happens to them.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that's like I feel like that's every mother's, you know, kind of like the the legacy of motherhood, unfortunately, is like you birth this something that you you never knew how much you could love, and then instantly you're like you start being afraid that it's gonna be taken away from you.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's terrible.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's polarity, and I don't think that that's a necessary condition of you know where we're headed.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: So there's gonna be a lot of surprises ahead, and I want everybody to know that we're in this together and we're gonna get through it.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: I agree, yeah.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Caitlin, it's been really enjoyable to sit here and talk with you.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: I have such admiration for you and your path, and I um we'll put your social media links in the notes so that people can follow you because your artwork is really um beautiful and meaningful, and I love how you curate your day.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's fantastic.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's been great to talk to you.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: I really admire the work that you're doing, and I found that your book and the things that you've had to share to be incredibly helpful to me on my journey.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: So oh my gosh, thank you so much for saying that.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hopefully we'll we'll meet in the in the in person soon.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, IRL.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: Take care.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: You too.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks.