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Finding Solid Ground: Building a Secure Sense of Self for Disorganized Attachment · Trauma Free Relationship

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  Have you ever sabotaged a relationship when it started to
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  get too serious, only to want your partner back?
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  Do you often mistrust your own feelings and needs?
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  Does it feel like connection is dangerous, overwhelming, or at
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  times suffocating? But disconnection is rejection
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  and abandonment and dangerous as well?
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  If so, then this podcast is for you.
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  Today, we're going to discuss how to begin building a secure
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  sense of self if you struggle with disorganized attachment.
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  Now, in this episode, we're going to define disorganized
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  attachment. We're going to understand where
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  it comes from. We're going to understand what
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  it looks like in your relationship from your
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  perspective and your partners. So if you're in a relationship
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  with somebody that you suspect might be more disorganized in
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  their style of attachment, I think you can benefit from this
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  podcast as well. And of course, as always, we're
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  going to talk about effective ways to begin building a more
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  grounded, secure sense of self. And don't forget to download our
• 1:11
  free ebook. This one I put together,
• 1:15
  especially for couples, how to get to the root of the problem.
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  Problem so that you can drill down past the surface level of
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  things and really begin to have deeper conversations that
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  matter, that are important to the relationship.
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  And so you can really begin to understand what you're really
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  trying to communicate with each other and not get hung up in the
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  same patterns. Welcome to trauma free
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  relationship. I'm your host, Tom Philp, and
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  I've been working for years with adults who struggle with
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  relational trauma to regain trust in themselves and others
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  so that they can experience a safe and secure relationship.
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  Let's get started, OK?
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  As I spoke about in the open, we're going to talk about the
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  day finding solid ground, building a secure sense of self
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  within disorganized attachments. So disorganized attachment is
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  one of the three insecure styles of attachment that are an
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  adaptation. They are survival strategy that
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  that was paramount for the person to be able to survive,
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  hence the survival part in in their environment growing up or
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  perhaps through some really abusive type of situation.
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  And so that was beyond just childhood, but it was so, you
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  know, maybe you were in a relationship with somebody in
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  your adolescence or early 20s that was physically abusive and
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  it took you while to to leave that person.
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  If that's the case, then oftentimes that can create what
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  looks like a disorganized attachment pattern later on.
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  I guess is what I'm trying to say here, though, it doesn't
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  just have to happen in childhood, but most commonly is.
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  And So what what is happening when we talk about disorganized
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  attachment, it's different than anxious, It's different than
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  avoidment avoidant. It certainly doesn't look like
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  it's secure. So what does disorganized
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  attachment look like? Well, from inside the person it
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  it is a simultaneous longing for safety and security.
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  But it is also easily threatened by any sense of abandonment,
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  engulfment, rejection or or smothering by someone else as
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  well. So it can be highly emotional
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  and, you know, intensity, mixed reactions with confusion.
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  Oftentimes the person can simply, you know, get triggered,
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  respond with intense emotions and then have a lot of confusion
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  about why they might have responded that way or a lot of
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  confusion about what was really happening in the relationship.
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  Was I not really experiencing my partner as being threatening,
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  threatening the attachment ties? What I mean certainly with
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  physical threats, those always have to be taken seriously.
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  So I'm kind of setting any physical type of abuse or, or
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  threats aside. I'm talking emotional threats
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  primarily here. And so, you know, the person
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  inside is experiencing, trusting their own perceptions and needs.
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  Wait, wait a minute. You're telling me that that I
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  was perceiving that you were going to shut down, reject and
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  abandoned me, but you're telling me my perception of that was
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  wrong, that wasn't your intention.
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  Well, then if that's the case, then this falls back on me and
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  it creates a lot of confusion in myself because now I can't even
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  trust my own feelings. And if this happens to me enough
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  and I get enough feedback, or I go through enough relationships,
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  at some point I've got to start reflecting on myself.
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  And if I do that and I don't understand why my partners treat
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  me the way they do, why they can't give me the love that I'm
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  really wanting and why they, you know, love me the way that feels
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  good, then it leaves me wondering what in the heck is
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  going on. And so, you know, this is a
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  nervous system that often swings between hyper arousal, panic and
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  anger and shut down numbing for and and perhaps disassociation.
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  So you know what, get away from me.
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  Come here, I need you. I use that terminology a lot
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  because that push and pull dynamic that is happening a lot
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  from the partners perspective in the relationship, right?
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  So from the somebody that might be disorganized, they might not
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  be seeing that as a push and pull.
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  What they might be feeling is I'm angry you're not getting
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  this right. Get away from me and then shut
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  down. Disassociation.
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  I don't understand what's happening, why you can't get
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  this right. Sometimes the the focus is very
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  much on the other person and not the person that's actually
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  experiencing those those ping pong of emotions in internally.
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  And so, you know, love is not safe.
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  It closeness, intimacy is not safe for the person that's more
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  disorganized in their attachment style.
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  And it absolutely brings up old trauma memories.
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  And often times it, it can, the person can get caught in cycles
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  where they are with somebody and they might break up and they
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  might get back together, then they might break up again.
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  But the focus is constantly on the other person.
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  And not to say they can't ever reflect on themselves, but
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  oftentimes when they do, they throw their hands up and say, I
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  don't know, you know that. And they don't know.
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  They're not lying. They're not trying to deceive
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  anybody. They truly don't know because
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  they can't make sense of their emotions and they they can't
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  tell a coherent story about their feelings and the deeper
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  meanings that their feelings are communicating to them and the
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  needs that reside at the bottom of those feelings.
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  They can't be able to draw on that.
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  They know they long for a partner that can meet their
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  needs. They know they long for a safe
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  and secure attachment. They just don't know how to get
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  there. And so there's very much this
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  push and pull dynamic that happens within the relationship.
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  As I mentioned, a lot of times they can feel sort of crazy
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  making to somebody who's in a relationship if they are more
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  disorganized because they're being told constantly they're
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  getting it wrong. Love me this way.
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  And then the person tries to love them that way.
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  And then that's not correct. I need this from you.
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  Can't you just do this? Can't you just do that If you
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  had just said it this way? And so they feel like they are
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  trying to hit a moving target and then they get hit with these
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  emotional intense emotion swings from their partner or their
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  partner shuts down and withdraws or, you know, gets very angry
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  and, and, and gets rages at them at times.
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  And, and I should say people with disorganized style of
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  attachment that they aren't always, they do have these most
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  emotional swings, but they are not always like raging and
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  screaming. Sometimes that might be a part
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  of their personality. But I don't want you to think,
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  oh, I just have to look for somebody that like absolutely
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  loses it And, and I'll be able to identify with somebody that's
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  disorganized. That's not really the case.
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  And often times it's, it's more subtle.
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  So they might get angry, but it doesn't mean that they are
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  screaming and yelling and always throwing things.
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  That's not, I don't want to give that impression for somebody who
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  might fall into this style of attachment because that's not
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  always the case. Now they might be always
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  complaining. They might be saying, you know,
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  in, in essence, you're you're never getting it right.
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  They might want to be held one minute and then it feels
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  suffocating, so they push away the next.
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  They might get angry and they might complain, but it doesn't
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  necessarily mean they're yelling or screaming.
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  And so I want to just make sure that that you're not we're not
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  thinking about somebody here who who's just yeah, like loses it.
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  Sometimes that might be the case, but not always, not always
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  is sometimes can be much more subtle and sometimes they're
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  their complaints or or them trying to get what they need in
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  the relationship are couched in very logical terms.
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  And so you're like, oh, well, that actually makes sense and
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  you might validate that. And then you find out later, oh,
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  that's not quite what they really wanted.
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  And you're like, oh, well, maybe that's not what they were
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  communicating. So it can be tricky sometimes
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  being able to understand what might be happening with the
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  person and, and it takes a it takes a while and it takes a
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  series of the cycle coming and going, coming and going to be
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  able to finally go, oh, I think I know what's happening here,
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  right? Because the person that is
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  involved with them, it is after a while is feeling like, man, no
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  matter how much I try to show up for them, it's not right.
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  I just can't get it right. Even if I do exactly what they
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  try to tell me to do, it still comes back as being wrong.
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  And so there's this ping pong approach, this yin and Yang that
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  often can feel like it can feel crazy making to to the person in
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  there. I'm not saying the person's
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  crazy, but it just feels like they're going crazy because what
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  they want to do is they want to love their partner and they're
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  trying to show up for their partner.
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  And and that's not a taking into account any kind of trauma they
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  might have that gets triggered in the relationship.
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  And if they're more of an avoidance style boy, there are
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  times where that more disorganized person partner
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  might actually shut down, which then would cause the other more
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  avoidance style partner to shut down.
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  And then things can be really awkward for days at a time in
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  the relationship and never really talked about.
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  And sometimes it can be very slow to make those repairs.
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  So those intense emotional swings are part of it.
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  The fear of intimacy and the fear of abandonment can
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  certainly be a hallmark of this style of attachment.
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  Keep in mind, part of the reason this attachment was created was
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  because as a child or in a relationship as a young adult,
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  when people were seeking a sense of comfort and safety from their
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  partner or their parent or their caretaker, it was met with fear.
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  And when that fear is overwhelming, when that fear is
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  too much for the child, then the child or the young adult doesn't
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  know how to process that. And if they don't have anybody
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  to process that with, then what is natural, what is normal?
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  To reach out when scared or sad and to seek somebody who can
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  attune to them, who can understand how they feel, who
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  can sit with them, who can tolerate some discomfort if they
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  don't handle it perfectly or they get a little bit angry
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  instead of expressing their fears.
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  If they don't have somebody in their life to do that, then that
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  becomes overwhelmed. And that overwhelming feeling
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  then becomes split off in part of the person.
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  And it kind of becomes split off like, OK, well, this is this
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  part that I've never been able to understand that is totally
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  overwhelmed that that doesn't get what they need.
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  And I, I'm just not going to live in that part very much,
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  except of course, when we grow up and we're in adult
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  relationships. And then all of a sudden that
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  part gets triggered. All of a sudden that part finds
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  that it wants to try to show up more and still get its needs
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  met. But it does it in a way that
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  creates cycles and patterns in the relationship as opposed to a
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  way that's more open and vulnerable.
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  Because that part that was split off, that part fears
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  vulnerability because in vulnerable moments, it did not
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  get what it need needed. It got overwhelmed, it got
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  frightened, it got scared even more, it got shamed and
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  ridiculed and right. And so in order not to heal that
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  part, that part comes with a lot of protection.
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  And so fear of intimacy and fear of abandonment are absolutely
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  part of the disorganized style. And then last but certainly not
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  least, is the difficulty with trust.
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  They don't, deep down, they don't trust others and they
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  don't trust themselves. And so they lose a vital
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  connection. They lose the ability to be able
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  to understand their own needs and feelings and to also be able
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  to reach out for others to others for comfort and caring
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  and and soothing. So as a result, right, they
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  never really have repair after conflict because even repair
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  doesn't feel good to them. And so they have a very hard
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  time trusting their partner and they have a very hard time
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  trusting themselves. And so that's a little bit what
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  it feels like from within their perspective, as well as from the
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  perspective of a partner. If you're in a relationship with
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  somebody like this, you know, sometimes, sometimes you can
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  finally get numb or you can finally begin to shut down and,
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  and you can get really sad. And it doesn't mean necessarily
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  maybe you're giving up, but it means that, you know, not being
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  able to get it right consistently, getting messages
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  from your partner, you're failing consistently, that can
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  throw you in a bad place for a while.
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  And, and you might be able to, you know, regroup and come back,
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  especially if you're in the more secure style, so you can bounce
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  back and try again. But certainly there are moments
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  where it's going to feel very frustrating to be in a
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  relationship with this person, not because they're not worth
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  it, They are absolutely worth it.
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  And and I will say to a lot of couples that I see where one
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  partner might be more disorganized in their style,
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  they can have some great moments.
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  I'm obviously here describing some of the lower moments and
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  some of the cycles that he get into.
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  But I'm telling you, I've also heard people talk about their
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  relationship as if the greatest thing in the world that when
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  they get their partner on a good day or their partner let's down
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  their walls a little bit, it's fun.
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  It's exciting that, you know, they might have great passionate
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  sex. They might feel really close and
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  really connected for a few hours or a few days there and things
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  might be really, really good. And so a lot of times I'll hear
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  like, man, when we're great, we are great, right?
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  And, and them and their partners will say that when things are
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  good, things are so incredibly good.
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  And so that's, I mean, things can be great in these
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  relationships when you catch the partner on a day they might feel
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  more secure or on a day they let their walls down a little bit
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  and let you in or, you know, trust themselves a little bit
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  more, something along those lines.
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  And so things can be really good in these relationships as well.
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  And then of course, things can be really difficult and those
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  patterns can play out and they can rear their ugly head and as
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  a result, they go back into the places where they're stuck back
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  into this push and pull dynamic. And so from within the
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  disorganized attachment style, what they've learned is that
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  connection is dangerous, but disconnection is dangerous as
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  well. So what has to happen is almost
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  sometimes before we can even address the pattern is we have
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  to help the individual to be able to build a more secure
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  sense of self. If you fall into this category,
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  and we know statistically there's a certain percentage of
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  folks that do, if you fall into this category, then before you
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  can communicate to your partner what you really need, you've got
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  to be able to know what those needs are yourself.
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  And you've got to be able to trust yourself when those needs
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  come up. You've got to be able to tap
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  into your vulnerable longings and let your walls down and be
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  able to, to integrate a little bit of that split off part I
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  talked about so that you don't shut down and disassociate.
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  So that you can sort of become the parent to yourself that you
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  needed in the 1st place. So when you get triggered, it's
• 18:55
  not so overwhelming. You don't have that push and
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  pull. And so when we talk about
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  building a more secure sense of self, we're talking about here
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  sort of four different capacities that this individual
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  needs to learn to do. One, they need to learn self
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  soothing without self abandonment because oftentimes
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  that's exactly what happens when they get overwhelmed.
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  They abandon themselves and then disassociate when they get
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  overwhelmed. They go into fight or flight,
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  which is a different kind of abandonment.
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  But nonetheless, they're not staying in the window of
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  tolerance. They're not able to self soothe,
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  so they stay grounded, clear and connected #2 it's about
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  emotional awareness without overwhelm.
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  How are they going to be able to hold those those more traumatic
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  emotions that reside in that split off part when it's trying
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  to reconnect with them so that they don't disassociate, so that
• 19:56
  they don't shut down, so that they don't go into another
• 19:59
  depressive episode? Being able to hold those
• 20:03
  emotions and not be overwhelmed by them is teaching them to no
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  longer be as scared of those feelings that were split off in
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  the first place. #3 boundaries without disconnection.
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  How can they stand up for themselves?
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  How can they set boundaries with their partner?
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  How can I set boundaries with themselves?
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  Hey, I'm going to begin to notice and get in touch with my
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  body more so that I'm aware of this feeling like a like a
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  temperature gauge rising inside of me.
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  And I'm aware when that temperature gauge starts
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  increasing and it's at that point that I'm going to start
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  using my strategies and my tools.
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  It's at that point that I'm going to start building more
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  capacity into my ability to self soothe and hold my emotions a
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  little bit longer than what I usually do in order to not not
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  disassociate or split off or, or go into fight or flight or shut
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  down or, or become too overwhelmed by them.
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  And being able to set those boundaries for yourself as well
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  as boundaries with others without necessarily losing
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  connection, you might say to your partner, hey, I'm beginning
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  to feel a little bit overwhelmed here.
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  And I want us to try to stay and talk.
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  And so I'm, I'm working really hard on this.
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  But if you see me kind of having reactions to it, I just want you
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  to know what that's what I'm trying to do.
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  I'm trying not to shut down, I'm trying not to disassociate and
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  I'm trying not to get flooded and go into fight or flight.
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  So I'm working really hard on being able to hear you and, and,
• 21:40
  and not get overwhelmed or triggered by what you're saying.
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  And so that would be an incredible thing to be able to
• 21:47
  say to your partner because you're, you're setting
• 21:50
  boundaries without necessarily disconnecting from yourself or
• 21:54
  your partner. And then finally #4 connection
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  without panic or collapse, right?
• 21:59
  How can we stay connected without going into a panic fight
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  or flight or without collapsing down?
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  And So what you're essentially doing is increasing your
• 22:09
  capacity to stay present in the here and now, to stay present
• 22:13
  with yourself, present with your partner.
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  Because one of the things we know about trauma is that when
• 22:20
  trauma gets triggered, it pulls you out of the here and now,
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  right? You don't, you no longer feel
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  safe in the here and now. You no longer can allow yourself
• 22:30
  to be fully present in the here and now.
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  And so you abandoned yourself and you abandoned your partner
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  and maybe multiple different ways, but nonetheless, you do
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  all that because you are trying to survive in that moment.
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  And so those are the four different core sort of goals to
• 22:53
  to build a more secure sense of self.
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  Now, how might we do that? Well, here's a couple of things
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  I want to highlight to get you started.
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  The first one is how can we begin to integrate a little bit
• 23:08
  of, of these emotional states? If you'll remember, I talked
• 23:12
  about emotional awareness without being overwhelmed, and I
• 23:17
  talked about self soothing without self abandonment.
• 23:20
  Part of this is being able to get more in touch with your
• 23:23
  body. So if we were to sort of map
• 23:27
  your, your internal emotional life, right?
• 23:31
  We, we could almost ask ourselves the following
• 23:33
  questions and then we need to be able to seek the answers to
• 23:36
  thee. We, we might call this like
• 23:38
  emotional mapping when you're triggered, right?
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  What happened? So what was it that actually
• 23:45
  triggered you? Did you drive by a restaurant
• 23:50
  where your wife sat with another man when she was having an
• 23:56
  affair? And all of a sudden you just
• 23:59
  felt the blood drain out of your body?
• 24:01
  And it's almost like you are no longer in your body.
• 24:04
  And, and you started, you know, your brain started whirling with
• 24:08
  all these thoughts and ideas, so much so that you even sort of
• 24:12
  forgot you were driving in those moments and you were totally in
• 24:16
  your head. So that might be that might be
• 24:19
  the facts. Oh, I know what it was.
• 24:21
  I drove by this location. So that's the what happened.
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  The second part, what I felt, I felt the blood drained from my
• 24:31
  body. I, I just all of a sudden I've
• 24:33
  sort of froze. I went numb.
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  It was almost just like I couldn't feel anything anymore.
• 24:40
  And so I completely shut down and I almost felt like I wasn't
• 24:44
  even in my body anymore. OK, that's, that's shut down.
• 24:48
  That is a disassociation in some sense, what my body did.
• 24:55
  Well, your body completely disassociated in that moment,
• 24:59
  right? So what happened?
• 25:00
  What was the actual trigger? What I felt, the emotion,
• 25:03
  emotion, words. I felt cold.
• 25:06
  I felt numb. What my body did, it shut down.
• 25:09
  It disassociated. What story did my mind tell me?
• 25:14
  It told me in that moment that I'm never going to be able to
• 25:18
  love my wife enough. I'm never going to be good
• 25:21
  enough for her. I'm never going to be able to
• 25:24
  get back to a place where I feel safe and secure that I'm broken
• 25:29
  to some degree. I don't measure up and I never
• 25:33
  will. No matter how many times she
• 25:34
  apologizes. No matter how many times she
• 25:37
  says that I'm the only one she wanted and that that we're
• 25:41
  repairing things. No matter how much she's become
• 25:43
  more transparent to make me feel safe and secure.
• 25:46
  No matter how many times she's able to sit down and listen to
• 25:48
  me and talk this through, when I do get triggered, none of the
• 25:52
  things she's does is changing the story for me.
• 25:56
  And the story I tell myself is I'm never going to be good
• 26:00
  enough. And then lastly, what did you
• 26:04
  need but didn't get in that moment right?
• 26:08
  Being able to map that out? What did you need but didn't get
• 26:12
  in that moment? And that's an important piece of
• 26:15
  that as well, because in that moment, you needed reassurance.
• 26:21
  In that moment, you needed to not be blindsided.
• 26:25
  You needed something safe and secure around you.
• 26:30
  So you can kind of walk through and answer these questions for
• 26:33
  yourself when you get triggered, right?
• 26:36
  I'm talking to my partner and all of a sudden he uses that
• 26:41
  tone of voice and it triggers me because I know he's about to get
• 26:45
  mean and I know he's about to say some things that really hurt
• 26:48
  me. And so as soon as that tone of
• 26:51
  voice comes out, that's the trigger.
• 26:54
  And then what happens inside me, what happens is I immediately
• 26:58
  start to, to get flooded and I immediately start to get angry
• 27:03
  and, and, and I get overwhelmed in that moment.
• 27:07
  And so I pop out of the window of, of tolerance and now I'm
• 27:10
  flooded and all I can think about is how do I get my partner
• 27:14
  to listen to me? And what did your body do?
• 27:17
  It immediately jumped from 60 heartbeats to 100 heartbeats per
• 27:21
  minute. And you immediately became
• 27:22
  flooded with all kinds of emotion, anxiety, anger,
• 27:27
  frustration, fear. And it just was a big jumble of
• 27:31
  emotions. You could hardly even think
• 27:33
  straight yourself. And that's what your body did.
• 27:36
  And, and what story did you tell myself?
• 27:39
  Tell yourself. Well, it, I told myself that
• 27:41
  I'm, I'm in these moments, I'm not worth listening to, that I'm
• 27:44
  not somebody who deserves somebody else to, to understand
• 27:49
  my emotions and my feelings. I'm somebody that is never going
• 27:54
  to be able to have a partner that truly sees me for who I am
• 27:58
  in these moments. And so that's the story you
• 28:01
  begin to tell yourself. And then what did you need?
• 28:04
  You needed your partner to be able to stop themselves, to be
• 28:07
  able to to soften their tone, soften their expression, take
• 28:14
  take things down a notch so that you can be more hurt in those
• 28:18
  moments. To be able to put a check on
• 28:20
  themselves, to be able to say, you know, I'm sorry I got a
• 28:23
  little that came out wrong. You didn't deserve that.
• 28:27
  I was just frustrated in the moment.
• 28:29
  Let's sit down and let's talk because this is important.
• 28:32
  I can see you're upset and you're important to me.
• 28:34
  I want to know about this so we can emotionally map here, right?
• 28:39
  What happens in our body. And the better that you're able
• 28:43
  to map this, this, this, this emotional journey that you might
• 28:47
  go on when you get triggered, the more you're able to go from
• 28:50
  chaos to meaning. Because being able to drill down
• 28:55
  inside yourself, being able to understand this, this emotional
• 29:02
  chaos that can happen in you and it happens in a matter of
• 29:05
  milliseconds. But being able to understand
• 29:08
  this could be absolutely transformative in you being able
• 29:12
  to now navigate the overwhelm better.
• 29:16
  Now be able to stay more connected to yourself, now be
• 29:19
  able to stay in the window of tolerance more, which is
• 29:22
  teaching your body to stay more present.
• 29:25
  So even one thing like this, if you were to work on has a
• 29:29
  cascading effect and you're a, you can in those moments really
• 29:34
  be able to understand more about what's happening to you and why
• 29:41
  it is happening. And so that's just one thing.
• 29:44
  I mean, there's probably lots and lots of others we could talk
• 29:47
  about, but but rewind this a little bit, go back to those,
• 29:51
  those core, core capacities of internal secure attachment,
• 29:57
  right, self soothing without self abandonment, emotional
• 30:00
  awareness without overwhelm. And now you have a tool to begin
• 30:04
  to work on that, boundaries without disassociation, as well
• 30:08
  as connection without panic or collapse.
• 30:11
  And if you build a more solid sense of yourself, then you're
• 30:15
  going to be able to really communicate to your partner what
• 30:19
  it is you need in some of those moments.
• 30:21
  The next time you hear your partner's tone and you're able
• 30:25
  to map emotionally what's happening inside of you, you
• 30:28
  might be able to regulate yourself better so that you
• 30:31
  don't go into fight or flight, you don't become overwhelmed,
• 30:35
  you don't pull away, shut down. But instead you go, hey, can we,
• 30:39
  can we take this down a notch? I, that tone just triggers me
• 30:43
  because in the past and our cycle, I, I, you, you, you would
• 30:46
  use that tone to say some really mean things.
• 30:48
  So before we get there, can we just, can we stop and slow this
• 30:52
  down? We're standing here.
• 30:53
  Can we just go sit in the living room and sit down together and
• 30:56
  talk about this? I really need this conversation
• 30:59
  to feel safe for me so that I can stay engaged because I want
• 31:04
  to hear what you have to say, but I also really want you to be
• 31:07
  able to see my heart in this conversation as well.
• 31:11
  That is building a more secure sense of self where you can
• 31:16
  manage your emotions and then be able to reach down to those
• 31:20
  places where the need is at the bottom of the emotion and you
• 31:25
  can communicate that to your partner.
• 31:28
  All right, that's it for today. Thank you so much.
• 31:30
  Of course, we bring you these podcasts every single week, so
• 31:33
  stay tuned for some other great ones coming at you.
• 31:36
  Until then, my name is Tom Phillip, and I'm here to remind
• 31:39
  you to stay grounded, clear, and connected.