Latest / Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love / Steve Gordon | How to Write a Business Book in Just 30 Days

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Steve Gordon | How to Write a Business Book in Just 30 Days · Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love

0:03
Unknown: Hi, and welcome to the wealthy woman lawyer Podcast.
0:05
I'm DaVita Frederick, and I'm here today with a dear friend
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and colleague of mine, Steve Gordon, Steve Gordon is the CEO
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and founder of unstoppable CEO. And I've had the pleasure of
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working with Steve over the last few years, he and his brilliant
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team helped me start my podcasts about the woman lawyer podcast,
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and manage that for over I think we're into our third going into
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our fourth year of this podcast. And he's also been the guy to
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help me get these two books written and published through
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his publishing company back there somewhere. There you go,
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there you go. And so today, I want to I'm so so excited to
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have him on because I want to talk with you guys about what
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it's like to write and publish a book. And Steve has a lot of
0:56
expertise in this, because he is a five time author, as well as
1:01
the founder of his own podcast. And so I'm excited to introduce
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him to you guys. And we're gonna have a wonderful conversation
1:07
today. If you've been thinking about writing a book, then you
1:10
definitely want to listen up. Hi, Steve. Welcome, Davina.
1:15
Thanks for having me. This is exciting. We get to actually
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talk on a podcast normally we're talking behind the scenes.
1:23
Right. Exactly. Exactly. I'm glad to have you here we
1:27
actually had you on before. And at that, in that first one, we
1:31
talked about podcasting, because it's been such a wonderful tool,
1:35
both for you and I and growing our businesses. And I can't
1:39
thank you enough for helping me kickstart the wealthy woman
1:42
lawyer podcast and manage all that. Because there's a lot to a
1:45
podcast that people don't realize that goes on behind the
1:48
scenes. But today, I really want to focus on the books because I
1:53
have a lot of women law firm owners, you know, kind of have
1:57
that on their wish list that someday I'm gonna write a book
2:01
or I think I might write a book. So let's, let's talk about that
2:06
and share some insight from them, especially from somebody
2:08
who's written five books. What, what prompted you
2:14
to go down that path to begin with? What made you write your
2:18
first book unstoppable referrals? So I wrote that in
2:22
2014. And
2:25
it theoretically is book number three, but the first two ended
2:30
up in the trash can.
2:35
Yeah, I mean, you can relate to the struggle, right? It, it's
2:38
really difficult to try and, and encapsulate all of your
2:43
knowledge, all of your wisdom into a book. And at the same
2:46
time, it is the single most powerful way to demonstrate to
2:51
your future clients, your expertise, and prove that you
2:55
are the expert that you claim to be. And I think that's become
2:57
more and more important. I mean, every industry is commoditize.
3:01
Now law is no different. You know, it came to the professions
3:05
late, but it has hit them full force. And, and so if you want
3:10
to stand out, you really need to be the one that wrote the book,
3:14
and, and wrote the book for your specific type of ideal client,
3:20
and in their specific niche. And, and when you do, you end up
3:26
being the only one. And that's what really motivated me to want
3:32
to write the book I was, you know, I, as you know, I live in
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Tallahassee, Florida, we're not a large city, I think we're like
3:39
the 11th largest market in Florida, which means we're not a
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big place.
3:43
We were a little one and a half person, marketing consulting
3:46
firm, it was me and a part time assistant. And we had a handful
3:51
of local clients. And I had a bigger vision than that. And I
3:54
knew we were doing really great stuff, but I didn't have a way
3:58
to get that message any further beyond what we were doing. And
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that book gave me a way to do that. And, you know, we can talk
4:06
about, you know, what happened when we when we launched it,
4:09
because it was really, I still think back and it's like
4:11
astonishing, how quickly, it transformed things, but
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but it's just for me, it is the for any professional is the
4:22
number one way for you to go out and demonstrate your expertise
4:26
and create the credibility that the clients want. It gives them
4:29
the confidence to hire you because you've become a known
4:33
quantity because you've written a book. Right, right. I actually
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even though Tallahassee is my hometown for people who don't
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know I was spent most of my childhood there and I've been in
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Central Florida for 30 years, but I actually met Steve because
4:50
I discovered his book. And I read the book and I thought it
4:55
was it was great. He had some ideas in there that really
4:59
struck
5:00
chord with me, and I kept it for a while, and I thought I'm gonna
5:03
begin to follow him, you know, stalking online, all those
5:06
things. And eventually that led to an opportunity to have a
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conversation with him, I read reached out to him. And you
5:13
know, the rest is history. We've been, you know, working together
5:16
now for a number of years. And tell me,
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I want to hear about this transformation of your business
5:24
and tell me what that first book did for you. And, and then I
5:29
want to dive into is like your second, third, fourth, and so
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forth. So tell me what what that first book did for you just kind
5:35
of immediately within a year or so I had no idea what to expect.
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I mean, the average nonfiction book sells 300 copies in its
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lifetime, in its lifetime.
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And I thought, well, if I can do more than that in the launch,
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then I'm going to be off, you know, in on the right foot and
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heading in the right direction.
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And I had a podcast
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before the book, a different one than what I have. Now. I ran
6:05
that for about a year, I'd interviewed about 50 people,
6:07
other marketing consultant type people. So basically
6:11
competitors, don't you think about it. But in different parts
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of the world, some of the US some in Europe, one or two in
6:19
like New Zealand, Australia, because it's just such a great
6:22
tool, you can connect with people anywhere in the world.
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And because I interviewed them, I built relationships with them.
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And I stayed in touch. And so two years later, the book is is
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ready didn't take me the two years to write it, we can talk
6:38
about how we write them really quickly now. But
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I was ready to publish the book. And I went back to the people
6:46
that I've maintained relationship with. And out of
6:50
the 5015 agreed to help me share the book and they were going to
6:55
share it with the people in their network or in their
6:57
audience. Some of them had really big followings, and some
7:00
of them had tiny little networks that they shared it with. And,
7:04
and so it was the second week in July. In 2014. I happened to
7:12
time it perfectly. We had a family vacation plans, and we
7:15
were in Costa Rica, the week of the launch, I don't recommend
7:18
taking a vacation during the week of your book launch. It was
7:22
a little harrowing, trying to check the numbers on a dial up
7:26
connection from Costa Rica.
7:29
But we we launched it, and
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within about a week 5000 People had grabbed a copy a little more
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than that, as about 5268 had grabbed a cup of coffee. Now to
7:43
put that in perspective, leading up to that we barely had 1000
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people on our email list total.
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And so that I mean, you know, if if in a week you can five extra
7:59
impact? And Will everybody do that? No, of course not. But the
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thing that we see again and again and again, is that it is a
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multiplier. And it's a fast multiplier for for most people.
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You know, and so we doubled that year, we doubled the following
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year, we we've grown every year since
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on the back of that first book, and then the subsequent ones
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have certainly helped. But you know, if you can get one out
8:25
there and in the world and consistently promote it. That's
8:29
usually all you need. We still get clients back just just in
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the last week, we've landed two new clients, who both got the
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book more than five years ago, got that first book more than
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five years ago. And one guy was telling me he's like, I just
8:45
love the approach. I've followed all your stuff for all this
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time. And you know, your your book is on my bookshelf, and
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it's I've moved four times. And it's moved with me four times.
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Now what other marketing or sales piece can you create that
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someone will move with them?
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Oh, absolutely, absolutely. That's the thing. One of you
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that I think convinced me is that in your book you talk about
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you talk about referral kids like creating a referral kid.
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And there's different kinds of referral kits. But a book is one
9:19
of the best referral kids because you mentioned in in, in
9:23
your approach that, you know, first of all, who did who passes
9:27
out business cards anymore, nobody but it used to be the
9:30
thing. Everybody's passing out business cards, and you say
9:32
business cards can easily wind up in the trash, or they wind up
9:36
if you're like me, I had a basket and I would throw
9:39
business cards at it. And I would never look at that basket
9:43
and those business and I would say One day I'm gonna scan all
9:45
these into my CRM and all of that, but I would just put
9:49
things in every few years I'd go through and I go, Oh, this
9:52
person's not even in business anymore and I'd be throwing
9:54
things out right. So, but most people you know, like you'll
9:59
also find in business for
10:00
Apart from the bottom of your purse from somebody you met at a
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networking event, you know, but this is cards are so easily
10:06
disposed to dispose up. But a book is something that people it
10:11
has value. And people tend to keep it I have, even though I
10:17
have an enormous amount of books on Kindle, and I use Audible, I
10:20
also have three very full bookshelves in my office plus a
10:25
coffee table shot shoved under my desk with stats at book books
10:28
on it, right? Because I'm if you're a collector of knowledge
10:31
and information, you want to learn how to do your business,
10:34
you're always looking for good business book. And you're always
10:37
looking for that little gold nugget that you can get out of
10:40
that book. And if you get a book and you're like, I don't have
10:42
time to read it right now. But one day, I'm going to I'm gonna
10:45
get that gold nugget. And you say you hang on to the book,
10:50
because one day you're gonna have time to read the book
10:52
right? Now, you had a very interesting story where you said
10:55
that there was you had
10:57
someone who kept the book on their nightstand for a couple of
11:01
years planning to read it. Tell me about that. Yeah, so
11:08
this guy from the UK books an appointment on my calendar.
11:14
I've never, never met him.
11:16
Never heard heard from him prior. He gets on the Zoom call.
11:21
And, and he starts off by saying, I'm a little
11:26
embarrassed, but I've never read your book. And I'm not going to
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and I'm like, Okay, well, this is an interesting start to a
11:30
conversation. But you know, he said it in in that British
11:34
accent, which always sounds, you know, polite and intelligent.
11:38
And he said, you know, a buddy gave me a copy of your book a
11:43
couple of years ago. And I stuck it on my nightstand. I had every
11:46
intention of reading it. And it's just been sitting there and
11:50
I've never read it. But I need what it says on the cover, and
11:53
your name is on there, and your website was on there. And I just
11:55
finally decided I wasn't ever going to do it myself. I needed
11:59
help. And you're my guy.
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See, how powerful is that? That that story alone was hugely
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persuasive for me and writing a book, because I can relate to
12:12
that. I mean, I have read, you know, I bought books that I
12:15
really have every intention of reading, because I'm such a
12:19
voracious reader. I'm always buying, there's always more
12:22
books, you know that I buy and Newt some new shiny thing, and
12:27
not being able to get to reading it, even though I have the best
12:31
of intentions. And so I love that story, because that shows
12:38
how I think a lot of people have fear around. Well, if I write
12:43
this book, and I tell people my secret sauce, which is what you
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did it unstoppable, unstoppable referrals, you basically laid
12:50
out the plan. This is how you want to get more referrals for
12:55
your business. This is it ABCD you know, and you lay out the
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plan.
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That is a a very powerful story. Because a lot of people have
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fear around. Well, if I lay out the plan, then why would anybody
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hire me? So let's talk about that a little bit. Because I'm
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sure you've heard a lot of people say, say that to you,
13:15
when they're thinking. Okay, they're sort of with the number
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one question, is it? Yeah, it's nothing. In fact, with a new
13:23
client, we just on boarded yesterday. That was the first
13:27
question he asked is where where's the line? Where do I go
13:30
between teaching them everything I know, and holding things back.
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And,
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you know, there are a couple of ways that we kind of get around
13:40
that. And one is that for most of the people listening to this,
13:46
you have invested a tremendous amount of time and energy and
13:51
money in mastering your practice of law. And I don't care if
13:57
you're just day one out of law school. You're what is the law
14:02
school three years.
14:04
So you're at least three years ahead of everyone else in the
14:08
population. And probably more than that, because you were
14:11
really focused for two years. We take the bar exam, all that so
14:14
all tool from LSAT, the bar exam, it's usually a four year
14:18
process, pretty much, right? Yeah. And so you have at least a
14:24
four year Headstart, but probably more than that, because
14:26
very few people would be as focused as you were through law
14:28
school, on that singular pursuit of knowledge. There is no
14:33
possible way. We could summarize everything that you know, at
14:37
this stage in a 100 to 150 page book. We probably couldn't
14:42
summarize it all in a 500 page book or 1000 page book.
14:48
So you can't give it all away if you wanted to. It's impossible.
14:54
And clients aren't looking for that. I mean, particularly with
14:59
the profession.
15:00
John's with, you know, law and medicine and the others.
15:04
Clients don't want to learn how to practice law, they just want
15:08
to know that you understand their issue, that you've deeply
15:12
thought about it, and that you can show them that you deeply
15:15
thought about it and that you have a process in place to solve
15:21
their issue.
15:22
Right, right. I once had a conversation with somebody who
15:26
said, you know, when you're creating content of any kind,
15:31
there is tremendous value in just articulating the problem
15:34
and really giving clarity around the problem. So even discussing
15:40
a problem and consequences of not taking action, it has value,
15:46
but you start getting into, you know, what, what something is
15:51
and why somebody needs to pay attention to it, that has
15:54
tremendous value, you don't have to get into all the nitty gritty
15:58
of the house. Now in both of my books, I do go in a little bit
16:02
into the how on how to do things, but like you said, it
16:05
was really hard. I mean, I'm very verbose as anybody who
16:08
knows me knows. And
16:11
you it was hard, because you were helping to corral me and
16:14
say, do we need to make this shorter, we didn't make it.
16:17
Because I wanted to put everything I knew, you know,
16:20
once you start talking about something, you go, you know, the
16:23
temptation, especially for our attorneys who think in terms of
16:26
rules, exceptions, exceptions to the rules, we want to put
16:30
everything in because we feel like you have to have a complete
16:32
picture. And so even in my marketing book, and in my
16:36
systems book, I wanted to go into detail. And I did go into
16:40
some detail, probably more than I shouldn't have. But
16:44
that can also be overwhelming for our people. And I think a
16:49
lot of times when we're thinking about writing a book, we're
16:52
thinking, Why do you tell them everything because they need to
16:54
know it all, because there are exceptions to things. But that
16:58
can also really overwhelm people and cause them to not take
17:02
action of any kind, right? Because they feel like, I just
17:07
feel paralyzed with that. So you kind of have this philosophy of
17:14
airplane, what what what we call airplane books, right? Where you
17:17
can read it on a flight from point A to point B at our 90
17:23
minutes, something that you can read on a flight a couple hours,
17:27
maybe. And that is really different from what we've seen
17:32
in the past, even with my first two books are probably closer to
17:36
200 pages. The third one that we're working on is going to be
17:41
a lot shorter than that. And part of it is is because like
17:45
you said, people don't have the time these days, especially if
17:49
you're already a successful business person.
17:53
And you're just wanting to get your wanting to get a little bit
17:55
of an edge on something. So talk to me about how you came to
18:00
realize that because I know a softball referrals is a larger
18:03
book. But each of your books have kind of gotten a little bit
18:06
more concise as you've gone along. What made you realize
18:10
that that was a change that you needed to make?
18:15
Well, the the nightstand story is one I mean, here's a guy who
18:20
wouldn't read 150 I mean, unsolvable referrals is about, I
18:25
don't know, 35 36,000 words, 150 160 pages. It's not a really
18:30
long book.
18:33
But here's somebody who could have been helped. That wasn't
18:37
now ultimately he was right. And it worked out. Because he came
18:40
and worked with us. But
18:43
I, you know, what really did it for me is a few years ago, we
18:48
had a client come to us who had already written his book. He had
18:54
an award winning buck in his industry, like literally had
18:57
one, you know, like the top Book Award in the industry. And he
19:05
had been trying to market it and use it as a tool to attract
19:08
clients to his consulting business. And it hadn't worked
19:13
and he was so frustrated, he tried everything, you could
19:16
think of every tactic you could imagine he tried. And people
19:21
would get his book, but they wouldn't go any further than
19:25
that. And it really took me a little while I studied I would
19:30
study his book and then I'd look at other ones that either
19:34
clients of ours or mine or other books that you know by other
19:38
authors that were just working really well for them.
19:41
And it finally hit me one day that he had written a textbook
19:47
and the all the books that had been really successful at
19:52
driving new business. Were not textbooks they were what I now
19:56
call a transformation book and
20:00
and his textbook had everything in it in the kitchen sink, it
20:04
had all the detail. It was like 400 Plus pages long. Wow, yes.
20:10
And it was really good. It was really good. But it was dense.
20:15
Yeah. And his target was, you know, VP of sales, that was his
20:21
target client. So here's someone who
20:26
probably isn't super technical, and this was a little bit
20:29
technical,
20:31
probably doesn't have a lot of time, you know, we'll look at a
20:34
300 page book and go, Yeah, that's really great, I'll get to
20:37
it, and then never gets to it.
20:41
And, or looks at it, and reads it and gets a third of the way
20:45
in and goes, this is really complicated, I'm overwhelmed as
20:49
doing it to your point. And, ultimately, that's the
20:54
conclusion I came to was that, that book was never going to
20:57
drive business for him because it was thorough, and it was a
21:01
good book won awards.
21:05
But it wasn't, it wasn't describing the transformation
21:08
that could happen, and I wasn't doing that successfully. And
21:12
when I looked at the books that had been most successful,
21:16
they described the path from from point A to point B, from
21:21
suffering to redemption from problem to, you know, a better,
21:26
brighter future, after the solution is deployed. And, and
21:34
so that's really what we've come to focus on with our clients is
21:38
creating that kind of book. And, and that doesn't need to give
21:43
the reader every little detail and how it's solved. They just
21:46
need to see that. Here's a problem that they they they
21:50
have. And sometimes they don't know that they have it. I mean,
21:53
sometimes you mentioned it, the most valuable thing you can
21:56
often do for someone is identify for them a really big problem
22:02
that they're unaware of.
22:05
Or that they they only maybe minimally perceive as a problem
22:11
and show them no, no.
22:13
Here's the real consequence of this if you don't do anything,
22:18
you know, and,
22:20
and giving them that can sometimes save a person's life.
22:25
Absolutely, absolutely. Let's let's talk about the sort of,
22:31
when you brought up this as a very technical book, it reminded
22:34
me of the conversation we had, when I was reading the wealthy
22:38
woman lawyers guide to marketing in the virtual age. And my
22:42
temptation coming, you know, being a professional writer, and
22:45
then being an attorney,
22:48
was wanting to like do citations and footnotes and all of that
22:53
kind of thing. And one of the things that you said to me,
23:00
because I knew attorney, other attorneys would be reading it,
23:02
right. And so I had that just sort of, you know, like, I need
23:06
to cite this source or cite that source or whatever. And one of
23:09
the things that you said to me is, like, really, what we're
23:11
talking about here is your point of view, and you're wanting to
23:13
share your point of view. And you showed me a lot of very
23:18
popular and famous
23:22
business books that were around transformation and mindset and
23:26
said, this book has zero footnotes in that it has zero,
23:31
you know, it is this author's point of view about something
23:36
right. And I do think a lot of attorneys will get caught up in
23:41
feeling a need to make it like,
23:45
like a brief or a law of law review article, right? For a law
23:52
review journal. And I know you've worked with some
23:56
attorneys, what kinds of things do you say to them? To sort of
24:03
help them understand that this is a different type of book with
24:08
a different audience?
24:10
Well, I again, it kind of goes back to this idea is is it
24:13
textbooks all of your law textbooks had references on
24:16
every page probably doesn't.
24:20
But really, what you're writing is a marketing piece. And it's a
24:25
good marketing piece, and it's going to be intelligent and
24:27
thoughtful. But you don't necessarily need to have every
24:33
every claim that you make reference because some of these
24:36
are just your assertion of the best way to do things. You know,
24:41
every professional I know who owns their own firm does so
24:46
because they were once at a firm and they went you know what?
24:51
The guy that has his name on the door or the gal that has her
24:54
name on the door, doesn't know what the heck they're doing, and
24:57
I can do it better. I have my way. Right. So
25:00
Your book is really an expression of your way.
25:03
And so you are the reference.
25:06
Does that mean we don't reference anything? No, of
25:08
course not. Sometimes it really can help bolster your case to
25:12
have third party proof. And so often, if there's a relevant
25:18
study or, you know, someone else has some data that will back up
25:24
a claim that you're making, yes, it lends credibility to having
25:27
that. But we've we've certainly published books that were, that
25:31
were devoid of all of those things. You know, we don't
25:35
always but again, it's a representation of your
25:39
opinionated worldview. This is how you see the world and how
25:43
you solve the particular problem that you solve for clients. And
25:47
what the client is most interested in is one that you
25:52
understand the problem that they're facing, that when they
25:56
read the beginning of that book, they Oh, ah, she gets me.
26:01
Right, right, right. So let's talk about themes and sort of
26:06
ideas for attorneys. Of course, there are many attorneys in
26:09
many, many different fields. And one of the things that a lot of
26:12
my clients will say to me when we're talking about, they're
26:14
asking my advice on a book.
26:18
What will What do I write about, like, what is my What do I
26:21
what's, you know, in my field, what do I write about, and to,
26:26
to discuss how somebody might share a point of view in a
26:29
practice area, one thing that came to my mind is like, if you,
26:32
you're a family law attorney, and you have a philosophy or a
26:37
belief that family law matters don't belong in the courtroom.
26:41
And so you practice Collaborative Law. And
26:44
Collaborative Law is, you know, for those of you don't know,
26:47
collaborative family law, you're basically agreeing, all parties
26:51
are agreeing not to take this thing to trial. If they if the
26:54
parties ultimately decide to take it to trial, they have to
26:56
hire all new lawyers, that instead, there's a team of
27:00
people that are going to jointly help this couple separate in a
27:04
way that doesn't involve going through court. So a lot of
27:07
people choose to do that, because they have children that
27:09
they are afraid will be negatively impacted by taking
27:14
somebody to court. So if you have a strong philosophy around
27:17
why we need to keep family law cases out of the courtroom,
27:22
that's, that can be a great sort of topic, if you're a
27:25
collaborative family lawyer. On the flip side, if you're a
27:28
family lawyer that believes that you should,
27:33
I often was will see women, particularly when I was
27:37
practicing family law,
27:39
walk away from relationships and walk away from assets, and
27:45
financial, you know,
27:48
you know, things evaluate financial value, because they
27:51
just wanted to get out of their relationship. And it really
27:55
negatively impacted their future, because they just walked
27:58
away from years of savings or from the house, anything they
28:01
had built as a couple of add value, because they just wanted
28:04
to get away. And so if you're that attorney, you might, you
28:08
might have a philosophy that
28:10
you cannot afford to walk away from that at this stage in your
28:16
life. And so we need to fight for that, right. So you find
28:20
your everybody has beliefs around it, especially if you've
28:23
been practicing for some time. And you've seen a lot of cases,
28:27
you have strong beliefs. And I know because I have a lot of
28:29
conversations with with attorneys. So I know you guys
28:32
have strong beliefs. And so we did that is looking at sort of
28:36
that philosophy. And I know a lot of people will look for book
28:40
ideas in sort of explaining the basics to clients, right. So if
28:44
you're estate planning lawyer, you realize that a lot of people
28:49
don't really understand what a wheel is, and how it's different
28:51
from a trust. And they think only rich people need them. And
28:55
so you may write a book, even though there are 1000s of books
28:59
out there that talk about estate planning, you may write a book
29:03
that is still goes over the basics of estate planning,
29:06
because even though there are 1000s of books out there like
29:09
that, there are going to be a lot of people come into your
29:11
office and I know you know, because every week you meet with
29:14
them, who they're not reading, you know, they have read that
29:17
book, but you can give them your book, right? And they're gonna
29:21
so appreciate
29:24
that you took the time to explain that to them without
29:27
sitting explaining it to them and charging by the hour to
29:31
explain it right. And so that alone is going to get them to
29:33
hire you to handle their stuff because you did the favor of
29:36
educating them. So there are all kinds of different things how
29:40
what kind of processes do you go through when you're helping your
29:43
clients sort of come up with their topics because I imagine
29:47
that you get a lot of those questions like Well, Steve, what
29:50
do I write about?
29:52
Yeah, we well, we we go through a process where we
29:57
first want to understand who the ideal client
30:00
So who, who's the person they're trying to attract? That is going
30:03
to read the book? And then what are the challenges that they're
30:09
facing that would cause them to seek out that particular
30:12
attorney. And, and really understanding what those
30:18
problems are, what the consequences of those problems
30:20
are, is the starting line for figuring out what should go in
30:25
the book, because this isn't so much about beating your chest
30:29
and saying how great you are as an attorney. It's about
30:34
identifying where your future client is really struggling. You
30:41
know, if you think about their journey,
30:44
you and I know from marketing, the idea of the buyers journey
30:47
in the profession. So my background is engineering before
30:50
I started helping other professionals with marketing, I
30:53
built a multimillion dollar engineering consulting firm. And
30:57
we don't talk about in the professions, we don't talk about
31:00
the buyers journey. Right, right. You know, because their
31:03
clients, they're not buyers, well, they are buyers, and the
31:07
buyers journey has stages. And it begins with someone who is
31:13
unaware that they have a problem, you know, and then the
31:16
next stage is that maybe they're aware that they have a problem,
31:19
but they're not aware of any solutions. And then they become
31:21
aware of solutions to their problem. But they don't know
31:25
about your specific solution. And so then they become aware of
31:29
your specific solution in the final stages that they're called
31:32
Brand aware, they're aware that that, that you offer the
31:36
solution that you're the right one for them, basically, they're
31:38
ready to write the check. So every buyer goes through these
31:41
stages. And if you think about where they are before they walk
31:45
in your door, and you can empathize with them, kind of and
31:50
by that I just mean put yourself in their shoes, what are the
31:52
questions that they have? What are the things that they're
31:55
worried about?
31:57
Particularly for attorneys, you're dealing with people who
32:02
are almost always at a point in their life, where they have a
32:07
problem.
32:09
I mean, unless I wouldn't be calling you, they wouldn't be
32:12
calling you to make an appointment. Nobody makes sense.
32:14
With an attorney for fun. Like, even though we're fun people,
32:17
nobody does.
32:20
Your fun people and the so I my business attorney is the only
32:23
one I ever call, usually, when something really good is
32:26
happening anyway. In fact, we did it in January, I have a new
32:28
opportunity, I need some agreements, right? And that's
32:32
fine. But most everything else is like, Oh, I have a major
32:39
problem. And I'm now going to interact with the law. And I'd
32:42
better have help. And if you can kind of get into that mode and
32:48
empathize with them. And then take them through that journey
32:52
of educating them about their problem, walking them through
32:55
what the solution is, and then painting a picture of, okay,
32:58
once once we've solved this, here's what life will look like.
33:02
On the other side, there is hope. You know, and this is what
33:06
we're, you know, we try to take our clients towards the, you
33:10
know, the the ultimate end game. And when you can lay that out
33:14
and describe it, even in general terms, it gives them such great
33:18
confidence that you understand them. And then you have a plan.
33:21
And that there, there is hope for an outcome here. And I know
33:27
you can't guarantee the outcome, there are too many variables for
33:29
that. But if you can just paint the picture of this is what we
33:32
want to work towards. And let them know that it's going to be
33:37
complicated. Let them know that it's not an easy process maybe
33:42
to go through depending on the type of law that you're
33:44
practicing. But giving them all of that up front now creates for
33:49
you a very educated client, who now isn't going to be looking at
33:55
you like, oh, my gosh, what are they doing? Why are we sitting
33:58
here for three months? And I haven't heard anything, you
34:00
know, why is it this moving? Well, that's sort of the way the
34:03
law works sometimes. And you can do a lot of that educating right
34:09
off the bat fact, because you graciously referred one of your
34:12
clients, one of your coaching clients who asked and we spoke
34:15
yesterday, and that was one of the things that she said,
34:17
Really, she was looking forward to because she repeats herself a
34:21
lot, you know, with when new clients come in, she really has
34:24
to educate them on the process, that they're about to go through
34:30
both between what she's going to do with them and the court
34:32
process and all of that. And she said, you know, if I if I just
34:36
can get this book done, then I can just hand that to them. And
34:41
you know, once they've scheduled the meeting, say here, this will
34:43
take you an hour to read. Please read it before our meeting. It
34:47
will make the whole experience so much better for you. Because
34:50
you'll know what we're talking about. You know, people need
34:53
time to absorb, you know, people need time to absorb things and
34:59
so they may be
35:00
Listening to you in a meeting and they can't forget half of
35:02
what you said. And if you give them that as a homework kind of
35:06
thing, that's a great thing too. But it, the beautiful thing
35:09
about Book Two is shareability. They can also share that with
35:13
people I know I've gone through some things in my life. And I've
35:16
had friends who've gone through similar things, who've shared
35:18
books with me, and said, Here, you need to read this book, this
35:21
will help you. And those kinds of things, I think, are very,
35:25
very powerful as well. Because you might not be able to tell a
35:28
friend, let's say you're, you have a friend who's you know,
35:31
combating some extra weight, you may not be able to tell them,
35:34
you know, hey, this might help you, you know, but if they ask
35:37
you questions about something, you can say, here's a book that
35:39
I read, right? I just had a conversation with my hairdresser
35:42
yesterday, she was we were talking about getting older
35:46
getting our 50s. And some of the things we go through. And I was
35:48
like, oh, you know, I have this great book, I recommend you read
35:51
it. Right. And so it that is what your clients to will do
35:55
once they've gone through an experience. And people say, ask
35:58
about their attorneys and say, well, here, like, here's our
36:00
book, we read it, you decide for yourself. And that way they're
36:04
not, you know, responsible for making a referral. They just
36:08
they just, they just gave you the book, right?
36:12
We're talking let's talk about that for Yeah, let's let's dig
36:15
into that a little bit. Because I think that's an important.
36:17
That's a really important point.
36:20
And one of the reasons that I wrote unstoppable referrals was
36:24
we had discovered that
36:27
all the old advice for referrals in professional services
36:33
basically didn't work. I mean, it works, but nobody wanted to
36:36
do it. The advice boils down to two things, we'll ask your
36:38
clients for referrals every time you interact with them, and make
36:42
sure you follow up both with the client so that they follow
36:46
through and refer and with anyone that they refer to you
36:49
until they basically buy or die.
36:53
And the problem with that is for a lot of professionals that
36:56
makes you feel like a sleazy used car salesperson.
37:00
And for your clients, you know, it puts them in kind of an
37:05
awkward position, particularly in professions where you're
37:08
dealing with sensitive issues like law.
37:12
You know, we work with a lot of folks in in financial services
37:15
as well. And people don't want to talk about their money either
37:17
or their retirement.
37:19
And if you think that no one will read a book about law. We
37:24
wrote a book or about a year ago for one of our clients on life
37:27
insurance.
37:29
If I could think of the most topic. Yeah, I mean, like the
37:34
most boring topic on planet earth that you could possibly
37:37
concoct would be a book about life insurance. Well, I talked
37:41
to our client a couple days ago, and they've just recently
37:44
promoted it again. And they've done this, I don't know, a dozen
37:48
times over the last year, probably, they send out an email
37:51
to the people that have, you know, asked for information from
37:55
them, saying, Hey, we have this new book called Life Insurance,
37:58
would you like a copy? And I think he said, they got about 50
38:02
people to respond and say, Yeah, I want a copy. So they mail them
38:06
the book, and then they invite them to attend a webinar, they
38:09
used to do in person stuff before COVID, where people would
38:12
come to the office and meet with them in kind of a seminar
38:14
setting and learn, you know, and so they had 37, people show up
38:18
to a webinar, who had requested the book, and then 37 of those
38:22
people, or excuse me, out of the 37, I think 15
38:27
came in and made an appointment and bought life insurance from a
38:31
life insurance book. So when we start talking about the business
38:35
development, parts of this the benefits of of having a book, it
38:40
makes every kind of business development that you do better.
38:45
So if you're running ads, then in addition to running your
38:50
straight Google ads, or your Facebook ads, you can run an ad
38:54
for the book, because anybody that requests a book about your
38:58
area of law is likely dealing with a problem. So it's just one
39:02
more way you can do it. And guess what you're going to show
39:04
up very differently than every other lawyer who is on that page
39:09
with an ad. Exactly, exactly. It's so powerful.
39:14
You were talking about
39:17
people showing up up for this life insurance client. One of
39:21
the things that I think also makes it such a powerful
39:25
referral to tool is you can write a book
39:29
that your you can share with your referrals. And I know some
39:32
attorneys, like a lot of attorneys that I am
39:37
that I've spoken with about it, you know, they have their they
39:40
have their ideal client, right. They have the person who comes
39:42
in maybe consumer or business, they may be b2b, you know, but
39:48
also you can write a book for attorneys who want to be
39:52
educated on your practice area enough to be able to have a
39:57
intelligent conversation with them.
40:00
In referred to you, right, because sometimes you are you
40:04
may be in a practice or practice area where you're, all of your
40:09
business comes from attorney referrals from people in other
40:12
practice areas or some aspect of your practice area. But they
40:16
handle one part you handle another, and but they need that
40:20
sort of education so that they can have an intelligent
40:23
conversation with a client. So the client trust them around
40:27
that so they can refer to right. So I think it's a great tool in
40:31
many, many respects. Because I know some people are listening
40:33
to this thinking, Well, you're not really a consumer, and like
40:36
my clients aren't irregular consumers, like a family law
40:38
estate planning on some offshoot of something.
40:43
And so my people referring me business or other professionals,
40:48
so you can write like other attorneys, or maybe financial
40:51
professionals. So I imagine the life insurance person is passing
40:56
out those books, to financial advisors and other people to get
41:00
them to share and their attorney who does estate planning to get,
41:04
you know, sitting in their attorney's office for estate
41:05
planning, it's a great thing where your referral sources can
41:10
add value for their clients by just having a book there. So
41:14
even if they don't hire you, they've added value, and that
41:16
makes them feel good. Make sure referral sources feel good,
41:19
right about what they're doing. I'm sure you've done. It,
41:22
certainly.
41:24
Yes, certainly does that. And I mean, it gives your referral
41:28
sources confidence, because again, they're referring to the
41:31
person who wrote the book, in that particular area. So once
41:34
again, one of our mutual clients who's just starting the book
41:37
process with us now, that was, her thought was, you know, she's
41:41
in a very specialized area, she's got an appellate practice,
41:48
all of her business comes from other attorneys. And she wants
41:55
to create a book that sort of educates them on when a case is
42:01
sort of ripe, to move to her, you know, and what do they need
42:06
to know about it? What are the issues? What are the things that
42:09
they need to think about? And, and so there are lots of ways
42:13
that you can use it. And going back to what we talked about
42:16
earlier, and how to figure out what goes in the book.
42:19
That's where we start with every, every professional that
42:23
we work with is sort of unpacking? Where are your
42:27
clients coming from? Who is the one that's influencing them
42:30
coming to you? Is it the consumer? Is it another
42:33
attorney? Is it an allied professional? You know, if
42:36
you're a business attorney and doing a lot of business contract
42:40
law, do you need to have a referral network that's full of
42:45
CPAs? You know, what, what does that look like? And how can you
42:49
arm them with something that makes them look good, because if
42:54
they if they can go, you know, I've got the best attorney. It's
42:56
not like any other attorney. She's the woman that really
43:00
wrote the book in this particular area, you've got to
43:02
talk to her.
43:04
I mean, that's the best referral ever. Now, you're not just any
43:07
other attorney that they haven't ever relationship with. They're
43:10
referring you because your authority, you're the authority
43:13
in that area. And it's just very, very powerful. Right,
43:17
right. Absolutely. So we only have a few minutes left. So I
43:21
want to make sure that we get into and discuss
43:25
the program that you have, you have a couple of different
43:28
programs. But there's one that's kind of new that you put
43:31
together that you have, you've had several people go through
43:33
it. But why say new within the past year, and you put together
43:38
a little special deal for my audience and my community, and I
43:43
wanted to be able to share that with them. So they could have
43:46
some help, because they know I'm a professional writer with a
43:49
degree in journalism. I have had bylined articles. I've had
43:54
credit for newspapers and magazines I've written I've been
43:58
an editor for associate for an affinity magazine, you know,
44:02
manage all kinds of things for the year round words and writing
44:05
everything. But when it came to writing my book, The thing that
44:10
I think that was a huge help for you, because like you my first
44:13
is not my first book. I've got other books that live in my
44:16
Dropbox.
44:19
But the thing that really helped me to get this book from idea to
44:23
finish and ultimately published, was it you have come up with a
44:27
structure that makes writing it go much more smoothly and
44:33
quickly. So in this new program, you actually help people use
44:39
your structure and guide them through that process so they can
44:42
get that book written within what 30 days voters say. Yeah,
44:47
so the writing can be done in as little as 30 days. And so again,
44:52
we're not talking about writing your magnum opus, these are
44:55
short consumable bugs. And we've given
45:00
or the process around writing 30 minutes a day, five days a week
45:05
for about 30 days. And, and that will that will get you a book
45:11
that is long enough to have an impact and long enough to get
45:15
your message across. And if you want to do a little bit more,
45:17
certainly you can. But certainly you can have it done in 30 days.
45:22
And if you want a little bit longer, maybe it takes another
45:25
week or two. But if you think about what most people go
45:28
through and trying to write a book when they try and do it by
45:30
themselves,
45:32
they might spend years. And the reason that they spend years is
45:35
that that pesky blinking cursor is it's costing you It's
45:41
haunting you, it'll get you it'll take you out, I just want
45:46
to throw this in. Because I think this is important, as
45:48
somebody like I said, so when you have been a professional
45:51
writer, your whole career, I've learned how to write in
45:54
journalism style, when I learned how to write the journalism
45:57
stuff. And I started law school. It didn't work, nobody told me
46:01
that there was a certain methodology for illegal writing
46:04
that was different from journalism methodology, which is
46:07
different from sales, copy cop, actual copywriting, which is
46:11
different from writing blogs. So now I've learned all these
46:13
different styles. Writing a book is a different thing too,
46:16
because my temptation and the reason I struggled and has so
46:20
many pieces and parts of books that over a couple of years, is
46:23
because I wanted to sit down from the beginning. And you
46:27
know,
46:28
in the beginning
46:30
to data created whatever, and I wanted to just write sort of,
46:34
like straight through from beginning to end. And that
46:38
really is not the best method for writing. Like you really, if
46:43
you're writing a business book, it there is a certain structure
46:48
to writing a business, but there's a methodology for
46:51
writing this book. That is not that right, that is not the same
46:56
as writing an article for a newspaper, or writing an
46:59
academic article for a law review or writing a brief for
47:02
the court. Those are all different writing styles. And so
47:06
that to me, I think was the part that was so illuminating. Was
47:10
this it and also gave me a lot of sense of relief, is because
47:16
we went to we sat together and you're like, No, no, here's like
47:19
the structure, let's get all this laid out. And then, and
47:24
then there's a lot of making sure that you're asking and
47:28
answering the right questions in there, not just putting
47:32
everything that you know. And so I wanted to just point out that,
47:37
that's one of the great things that I got out of working with
47:40
you, and writing books. And then ultimately the the piece that
47:45
was helpful to was sort of the publishing part of it. Right? So
47:49
in this program, I would, we're going to share the link in the
47:53
show notes for people who are interested in learning out
47:57
learning more details and scheduling conversation with
47:59
you. But kind of give us just a quick sort of
48:03
explanation beyond the 30 days of writing sort of like what
48:06
else is, is in that kind of program? Sure, yeah. So we
48:11
actually work together for a total of about 90 days. And that
48:15
gives you enough time to write the book, get feedback from us,
48:20
all the way through. So it's a very interactive process, you
48:23
know, we'll we're going to help you structure the outline of the
48:27
book and really think about what should go in it and help you
48:30
build out a great outline. And, and use a persuasive structure
48:35
that we know is going to do a good job of taking a client on
48:39
that transformative journey from the problem they have through
48:42
your solution to where they want to be.
48:46
And then as you're writing, you know, we've we've got, we call
48:49
it the the the Never Alone support system, like you're
48:52
never stuck, you're never by yourself.
48:56
And we've got a system where you can submit a chapter. So hey,
49:00
I've written a chapter or a part of a chapter, I'd love to get
49:02
some feedback. And you can do that every day. You can do it
49:04
multiple times during the day if you want.
49:07
And we'll give you feedback. And you know, we do this all the
49:11
time. So we're able to look at it. And, you know, let you know,
49:16
okay, well, because we're not experts in your area of law. We
49:19
read it and as a kind of a neutral third party. Yes, it's
49:23
clear to us or no, it's really confusing. Let's work on
49:26
clarifying. Here's what we think would improve it. Here's the
49:29
part that didn't land. Having that kind of feedback will both
49:32
speed you up.
49:34
It will give you confidence. And it'll result in a better book at
49:39
the end of the day. And then once you get the writing done,
49:44
then our team will come in and design a bookstore quality cover
49:48
for you. So we have a full graphic design team that will do
49:50
that. You have a completely custom cover. high enough
49:54
quality that you would you might see it on the shelves and you
49:58
know, Barnes and Noble or some
50:00
place like that. And, and we'll help you lay out the interior of
50:04
the book. And those are places where most people get a little
50:06
bit stuck, we'll walk you through the publishing process,
50:09
and you can get it published. And and you don't have it
50:13
available for sale on Amazon, if you want to go that route, or
50:17
have it available on your website. So we'll, we'll walk
50:19
you through those steps. And most importantly, we're going to
50:24
help you create two plans for promoting the Book One is a
50:28
launch plan, because we want you to get really quick results. And
50:32
the other is your ongoing marketing plan, and how you're
50:36
going to integrate the book into the other business development
50:39
that you're doing. And so if you are doing things like
50:41
advertising and those sorts of things, we'll show you how to
50:44
use the book to enhance those. And if you're really not doing
50:47
much right now, sometimes, you know, we talked to professionals
50:50
who they're at a point where they know they really need to be
50:52
doing some business development. Well, in those cases, we'll show
50:55
you how to begin using the book to really ramp up your
51:00
referrals. And for probably about 80% of our clients, just
51:06
implementing the referral strategy gets them to a point
51:09
where their practice and their pipeline is full. And that's all
51:12
they ever need to do. And they don't have to worry about things
51:14
like advertising. Wonderful, wonderful. I love it. I love it.
51:19
As you know, I love it, because I've I've written two books with
51:22
you and got a third one coming down the pipeline. So I am
51:27
definitely a testimony for you for that. Because for me, it is
51:32
even above and beyond the the experience of people reading it
51:38
and referrals and all those kinds of things. Just the idea
51:42
just helping me get my thoughts and philosophies down in a way
51:47
that helps it makes it easier for me to explain it when I now
51:50
go on a podcast. You know, I'm really dialed in on and and
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other people are very clear on where I'm coming from and what
51:57
I'm doing. It's an incredible credibility piece as well, just
52:02
having a book that you've written because now I'm not just
52:05
a writer or a copywriter. I'm an author. And that really is just
52:08
like being a lawyer. You know, when you say you're a lawyer,
52:11
you get instant credibility. And when you say you're an author,
52:15
you get instant credibility in a different way. Right. So I can't
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recommend it highly enough. We do need to end, Steve, I know
52:21
you and I will probably have many more conversations about
52:25
this topic. But I thank you so much for being here today and
52:27
sharing we are going to share in the show notes. How you guys can
52:31
connect with Stephen find out more about this program. And
52:35
thanks so much for being here. I really appreciate it. This has
52:39
been fun. Thanks for having me and love the conversation. So
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keep going with the podcast. You're doing great stuff. Thank
52:45
you