Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Anthony Rowe - From professional basketball to a career in Finanical Planning.

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Anthony Rowe - From professional basketball to a career in Finanical Planning. · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And today's guest is Anthony Rowe.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Anthony Rowe is an ex-professional basketball player.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: He picked up the basketball at the age of 13, very quickly, established himself as one of the best basketball players in the UK, winning a scholarship in America.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't make the NBA, unfortunately, came back to the UK though, and had a highly successful career playing at the Leicester Riders and the Plymouth Raiders.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Basketball did eventually come to an end, and we talked to him about life after professional sports.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: He moved into a very short stint within recruitment and from there moved into a trainee financial planner position with Mattheoli Woods, and we find out all about the first two years of working as a financial planner and what those transferable skills are from professional sports into a financial planner role.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoy it.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Hi Anthony, thanks so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing well, thank you.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like many people, the last few months have been quite uh quite different, but uh you know we we keep smiling and we we adapt.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: But no, I'm doing well.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for asking.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: No worries.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: So have you been doing a lot of work from home during lockdown?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Have you been able to get into the office?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: What's the setup been like for you?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I haven't been in the office since Friday, the March of 20th, uh 20th of March.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, I never ever thought I would say this in a in a sentence, but I miss the office dearly.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm very much uh very much excited to get back in the office.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now working from home, it's been it's been fine and that we've had the resources to to be fully operational, fully functional, which have been great.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I get to eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner with with my children, which is which is great.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think there is something about that the office atmosphere um that that that you know that I miss.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I would be I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss it.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think you know there's so much talk about oh, we don't need the offices anymore, we're gonna all these offices are gonna shut.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: And don't get me wrong, I think a lot of them will close down, people will downsize.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think the the the companies are being more relaxed now about this flexible working attitude, and I think rightfully so, it's gonna make people a lot healthier and happier.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned there about having breakfast with your children and your wife and not having to rush out the door like a maniac.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's a huge amount of benefits to what's happened around it.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've felt it myself.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but to shut an office, I think it's mental.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know that's the culture of a business.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: People like to come in and out today.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've got the full office in my in.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's fantastic, you know, there's a good vibe, a good buzz.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um, yeah, you if people think they're gonna be 100% working from home and it's not gonna benefit them in any way.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know, offices I think are definitely don't close them.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think we need a bit of both, a bit of 50-50.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a balance to it as well, and I think it's finding that that happy balance.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I think when you when you think about those businesses as well that want to keep progressing, keep growing, you know, the training element of things and just the you know, the subliminal um factors that that that you know up-and-coming employees learn while they're in that office environment, there's it's just you know, there's no replicating that then actually being in the office.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're right.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think a perfect balance is is the uh is a strategy going forward.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: And a team man like yourself, I mean, Anthony, I've made an introduction already.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're a pro, you know, you're an ex-pro basketball player.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: So when it comes to team mentality, that's what you've always done.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: You've been surrounded by your team, managers, everybody, trainers, coaches.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I suspect for you as well, that bouncing off of people around you, watching, listening, learning, you know, is vital to how you progress within your career.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: No, I totally agree.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think in sport as well, we're very much so fascinated on statistics and performance.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And very much like a business with KPIs, but there's a there's an intangible factor that a lot of people don't take into consideration.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: That is the teamwork, the cohesiveness.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh, you know, you can have an employee or or an athlete that does something incredibly good.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the it goes under the radar, it's not recorded, but that has called, you know, that has been a positive influence for that business or for that team.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I think when you relate the office to a sports team, I uh I would say I'm very, very lucky to have been on some very good teams and I understand the the true value of of being in a good team.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think it's exactly the same way in business.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you um you were you were referred on to me um, you know, as somebody who I should speak to because I put a um a social media message out, and as you always see within especially within financial planning, there seems to be this real urge or want or need to attract people that have come from sporting backgrounds.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And um I was really intrigued, really, because I wanted to, you know, get some people on the podcast that have come from professional sporting backgrounds to really look at the behaviours of what you've learned whilst you're in your professional career as a sports person, and then transferring that across to financial planning.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, are there similarities?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Are there things that um have helped you um become a better financial planner?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I want to sort of see see how that transition works because there's a huge amount of people playing pro sports and life after sports is a big thing, isn't it?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because they you retire a lot earlier and it's like, whoa, what am I what am I going to do now?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: And um I think financial planning is that perfect as you come out of professional sports, whether it be you know 30, 35 or something, it's almost like a perfect age, I think, to be stepping into the world of financial planning because you've got some good solid experience, you might have a few gray hairs or whatever.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got to we're not getting back onto hair, are we?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: We're not talking about hair again.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: We told you about my bad air day, didn't I?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so you know, we can see that.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that was really interesting to me as well.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, Anthony, just to give our listeners um a sort of overview of of life before financial planning.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Could you just tell us a little bit about your professional basketball career?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um, you know, there's always it's always a case-by-case situation, and then a lot of pro athletes will tell you that their journey and you know it can be very, very different.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: But one thing uh is quite common.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's very rare that you'll accidentally end up a professional athlete um or stay a professional athlete.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, when you look back at the early days, it it does, you have to do something that separates you uh, you know, apart from from the the masses of other people who want to what you want also.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think I look back now and I was very, very lucky, uh had a very supportive family, and and I had a good group of friends as well.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I I do remember you know dedication and I remember um having to uh perhaps um you know pass up on the parties or pass up on the on the you know the the extra curriculum things that maybe teenagers do to discipline and commit myself to the support, and that's what I did.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think I was very much so goal-oriented.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um my focus was to somehow get myself on a basketball scholarship to America.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm from a seaside town in Plymouth.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um sometimes I have to repeat myself because of my accent, but we're very much so.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, this is the West Country podcast today on Bristol.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: West Country boys, don't worry about that.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh is in there.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah we'll can't we'll try and keep it as neutral for the viewers as possible.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um we we are way down there and and so much far detached from the rest of the country in that sense.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I always felt that that was a disadvantage.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that for me was was sort of fuel in the fire, really.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: I had to find out find a way how I could get to the states.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: And sport is very unique as well.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of sports, you know, you know, connect themselves with academics as well.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: So if I wasn't to a certain academic standard, then I wouldn't be able to um qualify or be eligible for a basketball scholarship in the States.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that was the that was the plan, that was the goal.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um I remember you know, day and night with that with that basketball, just just you know, in the back of your mind would be that dream, and that was my goal.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I got to around 1819.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was one of the best players in the country at the time, and yeah, the opportunity came for me to to look at schools over in the States, and and that was that was really how it all started for me.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I flew over there, visited a few um universities, and um it was the University of North Georgia that really you know took my uh I guess my got my early early love, you know, everything went fell into place, you know.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Great school, great institution, good academics, and I played really well there.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I think more importantly, um the financial aspect of it, it was 30,000 US dollars a year to go to my school and um 30,000 US dollars to go to school in America.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Correct, yeah, for for our out of state tuition, yeah.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a scholarship, is it?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: So because we touched on this, didn't we, before when we had our sort of exploratory chat, and I find it really interesting actually, because what we talked about as well was the fact in the UK there isn't a great deal that go that runs alongside professional foot uh professional sports.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, I had um Kieran Bywater on, and Kieran, when he was in the UK, was playing football at such a young age, but there was no emphasis at all really on a degree to run alongside his professional sport.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: So if something goes terribly wrong, then at least he's got something to fall back on.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And and you mentioned there being UK based and wanting to play in the States.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: In the States, you have to have a scholarship, don't you?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: You you you have to have uh a qualification or or something, some education running alongside your professional sport.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is that correct?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to maintain a GPA of two, which is a basically a C.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: So as long as you're averaging a C, then you you're eligible to play.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: If that drops below a C, then you're classified as ineligible and you cannot participate in college athletics.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really it's a system that's very well, I guess, intertwined with with the academics.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you we see this all the time.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: We see, you know, the next up-in-coming, you know, um athlete 18, 19 years old, that for whatever reason, you know, they get injured or or or maybe just you know, psychologically they're they're just not in it anymore.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's so many different variables that stop players reaching the that professional level.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, there's only a percentage.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: When you look at all amateur athletes, one percent from pro.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's a reason for that because there's so many factors that that prevent you from from getting there.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think having that academic um structure along with that that professional dream, it just provides stability.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess it's forward planning.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's like long-term planning.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: I knew that if anything was to happen to me, if my basketball dream was to go off course, I would have a degree, um, debt-free degree that was that was that was there for me.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you were at home in Plymouth, out your back garden, patting your basketball up and down, not sound patronizing.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: I used to love playing basketball when I was younger.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: I played for the Mendit Magics.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: We had a little team actually.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Played about three games obliterators, but I did enjoy basketball.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: There was a period, how old are you?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 34 now.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so there was a period when basketball was really popular in in the UK, wasn't there?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like um, we were chatting about it a couple of days ago.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: About it used to be on channel four, there used to be like a basketball show, didn't they, on channel four?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, I was in I was in school, we used to love playing basketball because we had a great big gym and it had loads of basketball nets.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: So clearly it was something to do on lunch breaks, and we ended up having building a team.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I thoroughly, I thoroughly enjoyed it, actually.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: I really, really enjoyed it.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: But it's strange, isn't it, in the UK to have somebody that then goes I I didn't think about professional basketball or there being this career in basketball in the UK?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: You always just thought America, America, America.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you you're a young lad, you're you're you're you know, you're like you said, you're practicing your basketball, you pick up a basketball for the first time.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Did you ever think like it was going to take you off to America on a scholarship at all?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Or how did that come about?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Not at the start.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when I think to when I first started playing, I was 13 years old, I was awkward like many other teenagers were, but I was six foot five, skinny and uncoordinated kid.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I I had very little prospects, if I'm honest.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then I sometimes look back and think, thank goodness those coaches give me the time of day when I first started.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because uh, yeah, I remember my first year was uh like Bambi and Ice, it was very uh uncoordinated.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, I think with with with anything or any everything, if you apply yourself and put hard work in, you know, you will see improvements.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I got to sort of 15, 16, you you can still see the the coordination come in, that uh this the skill developing, and then I think the love for the sport just grew as well for me.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was uh it was a passion.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh yeah, like I said, I got to a position where I was like 18, 19 and one of the better players in the country, and then that was my that was my opportunity to to to to have my American dream.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you weren't naturally you wouldn't say you were naturally a good a basketball player when you first first began.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: So did you what from so what then all of a sudden made you better?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Was it just consistently training?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, were you doing drills every day?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: What sort of level of of training were you putting into being a better basketball player?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: That was exactly it, Sam.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a complete fluke.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: I started playing basketball.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: I remember coming down from um uh football training at school, and my P teacher said, Oh, Anthony, you're taught, you know, you should come and play basketball.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, no, I'm okay, thanks, sir.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm too busy scoring goals.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, No, you should you should try.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: And um it was just complete fluke.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: I had the right P teachers that were that were really, you know, very you know, basketball focused.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was just very, very lucky in that sense.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, the rest I think was just that it was the discipline as well.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Every day I I remember even going out on Christmas Day um and shooting, whether it was raining, whether it's flowing.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I used to wear gloves.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I used to go to the park, I used to go to my school.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was a it was a no excuses everyday, um, everyday training mentality that I had to have.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Even the days that you didn't feel good, you didn't want to do it, um, you I had to do it.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt like I was playing catch-up as well because remember, I wasn't competing against uh my fellow British kids, I was competing against the Americans.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: I had to take one of their scholarships, you know.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, in in their country, they start playing basketball when they're five, six years old, when they're when they're walking, like we do in football in the UK.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I always felt like I was playing catch-up.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I think underneath, underlying that was my motivation as well.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had to be just as good as them or or better.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how old were you when you went to the States?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was 19, 19.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I you know, I'd be lying if I told you it was an American dream.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was tough, Sam.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: You you get there, and the first few weeks of the honeymoon phase, it was sort of pinch yourself.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't believe I was in this environment.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful, beautiful campus, um, you know, incredible facilities.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the the the the emphasis and money they pumped into sport is it's unbelievable over there, unbelievable.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you pinch yourself.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: But after that honeymoon phase wore off, it was um six or five practices in the morning.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that was your weight suspicion.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: You would have breakfast, you'd go to class.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Then you'd have individual practices, you would have another shower, you'd go to class.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then um it was conditioning, and so you'd be running outside in 90 degrees heat in Georgia.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then after that, you were it wasn't mandatory, but you were um you were you were basically encouraged to go and play pickups.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you were having three or four practices uh a day.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was taking three or four showers a day, and by the time you got home, you'd eat dinner, you'd just be you'd lay on the bed, but you know the next thing you have to do all again.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that the what shocked me was the intensity.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: I went from being in the UK, I felt like I was a pretty disciplined hard worker, and in the States it was another, it was another complete um intensity.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: And and that really, I really struggled with that if I if I'm honest.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: I first got there, and but I think after a couple months happened, the doubts come in physically.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: You're always tired.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Mentally, you start questioning yourself.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, should I be here?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: That sort of imposter syndrome in a sense, and um, it's really difficult.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm and I must admit, there was a couple instances where I wanted to throw on the tower and come home.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of British kids, it doesn't work out for them over there.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I can see exactly why it's incredibly difficult physically and and and mentally, especially these kids who I've never left Plymouth in my life before that.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: I used to watch an Emadale at seven o'clock at night, being with my parents and eating dinner, and you know, it was all those conferences that you had were just torn away from you, and you're in this environment, and a high pressure one as well.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: College basketball is um it's a big deal over there, very, very big deal.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you had all these mixtures coming together.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think college basketball, like when you see it on the TV, they go mad for it, don't they?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a proper that they it's like proper leagues and stuff, isn't it?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's this it's what people watch, they love college basketball.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: In the regular season, it's more um popular than the NBA.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: So the NBA, there's a lot of games, it's 82 games, so the games don't mean as much, but the college game, you know, they're all they're all amateur as well, so they're all 110%, all going 100 miles per hour, and it's just it's really good to watch.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the American culture loves that.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is that because they love their college so much?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: So because Americans are quite proud, aren't they?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: So when it comes to like a college, it's like that's my college, you know, my college beats your college.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: You don't really get that in the UK, do you, really?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like they do know people don't really care about my university, your university, unless it's like rowing or something like that.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a massive competitive type type thing, is it?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a shame, really, because um, yeah, whenever you watch like the films on TV of college, college football and stuff, it just looks so you know, jocks and passion, doesn't it?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it's um I quite like it.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it I think it's quite quite cool.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: That must have kind of that must have, yeah, like you said, you've gone from Plymouth to America, and that must have been a proper shock to the system.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that imposter syndrome you mentioned, like I'd imagine that would be just like, oh my god, because you are from the UK, aren't you, as well?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like you, you know, like you said, you started playing at 13, you must have thinking, What why have I done this?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that sort of mindset then, okay, because you must have been growing that mindset from 13 years old, that that work hard, keep going, keep you know, daily improvements, keep keep doing it every day, keep making you know those incremental changes to to your strength or to your ability and everything.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And when you got to the states and you carried on pushing through to that, and you went through your qualification, you did your college basketball, you get to a stage where you're then going to be drafted, and then what happened?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that that's it was there's exactly it was a process, and I think um, you know, coming from the UK, I was a big fish, small pond.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you get to the states, I was a I was a bench player, I wasn't the star player anymore.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you have to adjust that as well in it and it knocks on your confidence.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: So um I kept pushing through, and I think failure for me, I didn't want to be that that guy who who failed, and that was a motivator for me.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you you stick to the stick to the plan, and things just um changed for me.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: It got to about Christmas time, and as a freshman, I forced my way into the starting lineup, and then my performances increased with that, and then I was uh I was a four-year starter, so I started the rest of the of my college career there.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: And um, we discussed basketball about size, it's a very sized sport, and um you guys can't see this, but I'm I'm a little bit bigger than average, so I'm six foot seven, and um you know, I don't fit under many doorways, but um, for my position in basketball, um, I was actually uh average to undersize, so I was a power forward and in the NBA, you know, the power forwards are six, eleven, six ten.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: And um, like I was saying to you previously, it's not just your height, it's your wingspan.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm six foot seven, um, my wingspan six foot seven, but you can have um you know forwards in the league that have six foot ten with a seven foot two wingspan.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a perfect basketball body.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Every time you jump for the ball, you're you know, four, five, six inches um, you know, closer than your position.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized for the to my second year at university that I wasn't going to make the MBA, but I was still at a standard where I I feel like I could make it professionally.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, my energy switched a little bit more to academics, to making making sure I was doing what I was supposed to do and getting good grades, and um, you know, I continued to work.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, got to 2009 where I graduated as a senior.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was a uh all conference player, and um, yeah, I was I was I guess good enough for made the grade to play pro.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: I had a few agents contact me, and that's when the pro search started essentially.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you you know, you got offers coming in, and it was quite exciting when I looked back now.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: It was stressful because you want to make the right choice, but um, it was exciting.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I do remember those those times, and my first pro job was was in France, so off I off I went to France.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you left America, over to France, a bit of pro basketball over in France.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: So from France to then to the UK, because the bulk of your career in basketball was in the UK, so it didn't quite work out in France as well as you thought it might, or you didn't quite feel that connection to it.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Decided to go back to your hometown and play for um Plymouth.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:28
  unknown: Yeah.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: What's the who's what's the Plymouth team called again?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's um uh not less.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um Plymouth Raiders.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: Plymouth the Plymouth Raiders.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: So you started playing for the Plymouth Raiders.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that kind of journey then to America, coming back and thinking, right, I want to continue playing pro basketball, but want to play in my local town.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: They obviously opened you with Welcome Arms, you know, American superstar college basketball player.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: You came back to the UK, got stuck in there.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, how long were you then playing in the UK for?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I played in the UK for seven years after that.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um Plymouth was was my schoolboy dream.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: I used to sit in the crowd as a you know as a teenager and watch those guys play week in, week out.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I wanted to be like them essentially.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: They were my role models, and I got to practice with them when I was you know 16 years old.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really um a really great experience for me to come back and play in front of my family as well.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, my family didn't get to see me play for four years because I was out in America, you know, so it was it was really nice to be able to play, and they could see the the player I I am now as well.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And um got to team, you know, I was a team captain down there, so it was it was uh a dream come true in that sense.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was fantastic, and uh yeah, won a bunch of games.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um I got to 2012 and I transferred over to Leicester.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's what brought me to the Midlands.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that first year we won the Treble, so it was the most winning this season we we one of the most winning seasons we had as a franchise, and um, yeah, we we did the cut the league and the championship.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it was uh it was very, very fun.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um but then for me, um as with sport, it's there's there's only a certain amount of time that you that you have.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and I had had three knee surgeries.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I knew after.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: The second knee surgery, um, my career was was on the uh was on the decline.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: If I can speak, uh if I could speak openly about that.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you I think the second knee surgery, I had a complete rupture of the tele attendance, so I was out for nine, ten months.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: And even when you come back, you you know, I can't say how many days you know you're in isolation, you work by yourself, and very difficult, very difficult physically and mentally.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, I worked um very hard to get back to the to the pro side, and um, you know, there were instances where I'd be that player I was, but I think it's really hard to maintain that consistency.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, while this was going on, I had a young family and I knew it was time to be.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: So one thing I've definitely learned from speaking to some professional sports people is that you know, from the outside looking in, you look at people playing pro sports and you think they must be earning an absolute fortune.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're living their dream, they're playing their game, you know, basketball, football, rugby, whatever it might well be.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you just think in your back of your head, oh Christ, they've they've landed on their feet, haven't they?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: They've got a good little job, you know, they're playing basketball, they're probably earning an absolute fortune.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: But the reality is not like that, is it, you know, with pro sport.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you are, you know, the a big bulk of people that play pro sport aren't earning the types of money that you think they're earning.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um is that, you know, because that is where I want to kind of make it relatable.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is that you know you talked about that 1%.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a 1% that make it.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's also within that 1% a lot of those that actually fail when they're when they're even within that 1%.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned about injury there.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it could be injury, it could be not playing the greatest game, it could be mental health, it could be financial health, it could be whatever it might well be.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: But you might your career might end a lot sooner than you actually hoped and you planned it to be when you had those boyhood dreams of playing in the MBA, for example.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it could it could change.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so one thing I definitely want to look at as well is that kind of playing a game that you love, but knowing that perhaps you're not going to earn 300,000 pounds a year or whatever it it might well be.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Did that play on your mind at all when you when you were when you were playing professional sport?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Were you always kind of worried about your contract not being renewed, paying the bills, perhaps not having a job when you left the game?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: How did that play on your mind?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: For for me, not until later.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of pro athletes will be able to you know resonate with this.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I genuinely believed I was invincible, Sam.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: I never got injured.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you never think it's gonna stop.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: You think you're physically too strong.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: I I did, and I know a lot of athletes, I thought I was physically too strong.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: I looked after myself too well to be injured, and um, you know, you have that that sense of invincibility.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it wasn't until I got to my late 20s when I had started having my knee surgeries, I thought, oh, okay, I'm not invincible.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I I have to start thinking, and that was the switch for me.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you're right, financially, you can get you can have some athletes at the very top, you know, you know, one, two percent that will earn insurmountable amounts of money, that will not need to um financially do anything after their career.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: But for the majority of athletes, um, regardless of whether you see as well as a viewer, you'd see them on Sky Sports.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: So Eurosports, we played on all those channels, but we weren't making that next level money.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, I was very comfortable and I was very fortunate, but um, you know, it it was it was it wasn't it wasn't it had to be an option for me to have another career after basketball, and that's when I started thinking to myself, okay, what's my exit plan here?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: But it wasn't until I was in my late 20s, and financially I didn't make the best decisions, and I think that's why athletes have to I think try and be disciplined in that as well.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: I I wish I was a bit more disciplined with my financial decisions.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was when I compared myself to some of my teammates, I was pretty conservative.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't you know blow my money or I wasn't uh a loose spender, but I would um have you know eight, nine months where I'd be based at my my club, and then I would go to America for three weeks, uh for three months, sorry.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: I would train over there, but I would live like a king.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I would go to Miami, I'd go on holiday while I was on holiday.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you'd spend um, you know, instead of you know maybe using that money too for the future, I would I would spend because next year I knew I was gonna get a contract.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I I look back now and think I wish I was a little bit more um disciplined and smarter with with my choice, and I think that's not what the majority of athletes don't get that education, they just they just don't.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: You feel like you're invincible, you always feel that that money's gonna come, but it it may stop.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: It may the tap the tap may stop.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is though, you know, that's I'm 38 and I'm I'm only just really starting to get my head around my finances, my finances, you know.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: I pissed most of it up against the wall and just went on a holidays traveling.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it was only until I had a kid in my mid-30s that I was like, shit, I need to really sort out my finances here.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so I don't think you're alone anywhere.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know, sports or not, I think, you know, especially, you know, we just don't, especially in this consumer world, we want to spend, spend, spend.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I always just I do find it interesting though, when I speak to people from a sports background, is is the lack of financial planning though, within sports, that there doesn't seem to be anybody really, you know, you've got agents and whatnot that have wealth management and financial services written on their cards, but when it actually comes to them looking after you and what I would call traditional financial planning, like all aspects of your financial planning well-being, no one seems to, there isn't a huge amount of people that speak positively about that.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: And there's lots of shows and you know, discussions around how certain sports people have got themselves into financial difficulty where they weren't surrounded by the right people because it's very take, take, take, especially at the top-level game.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that um that connection with financial planning and sport, there's definitely a lack of, and there's a lack of financial planners anyway, but there's a lack of that connection, I probably imagine, with the with the guys that are going going out into that, into that arena, into the sports arena.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: That um I think you know, especially around parents as well, managing the money, perhaps, and you know, like you said, agents.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: I can imagine there's quite a per to, if I was a sports person, I'd be like, that's a niche, I'd be like straight in there looking at it.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, it depends on again the types of types of clients they could actually possibly be.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we'll move into that now.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about your career.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, obviously, your basketball career, fantastic.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: You had a really good career.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you went off to America, college basketball, back to the UK, played professionally in the UK, you know, you had a considerable, you know, good earnings, good run, all of a sudden, injuries, thinking to yourself, I've got to do something else.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Career comes to an end, and inevitably it will come to an end.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you're at that point, and you're thinking, right, well, what's next?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: What do I do now?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, what happened with you?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: What was what was at what happened after basketball?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Life after sport can be very difficult.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I was in a situation, I was 30 years old.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had a young family of my little boy, was was uh one, you know, one or two years old at the time.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I I had two degrees, so I just got my master's degree from Bluff University, which was which was great.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was able to again, you know, couple of a professional career with with my academics as I was as I was exiting my career, which helped me going forward.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but even with the two degrees, you know, I'd sit there at job interviews, I was 30 years old, two degrees, but with the experience of a 20-year-old.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it was really a working experience of a 20-year-old, which was really a difficult situation to be in because I didn't really know where I fitted.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like every other 30-year-old was ahead in their career or they were at a more senior role.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I was essentially applying for grad roles and um in and entry roles because I've not had any experience in that particular field.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um but what I did have, and and what I will say that many other athletes will have and not know they had is the life experiences.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've been all over the world, I've I've lived in different um countries, and it's little things like um you know the collaboration that you'd have with responses, you know, with responses um day in and day out.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: And the media, you know, after a game, it's incredibly difficult.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: You've just you've just practiced the whole week, you've given 100%, and maybe 100% isn't good enough, and you've lost the game.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, literally 60 seconds after that that that final you know whistle goes, you're given an interview.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Your emotions can be very high, especially if you've played poorly as well.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to conduct yourself in a way that you know you represent yourself, your family, and and the team.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you can't always you can't always say what you what you want to say, what you're feeling, because it's it's not appropriate.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um so there's lots of things in that instance that you know I think help your emotional intelligence, help your awareness um to other people, and have empathy as well for you know for supporters, fans, et cetera, as well, because they pay to watch you play.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um so there's lots of different things I was learning over the years as an athlete.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: I just I didn't know I was learning it.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was just happening because of the environment I was in.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting, yeah.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: So there were plenty of these transferable skills that you were building up.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I like what you said there about being empathetic to the crowd as well.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these guys are coming to watch you, they're paying their money to watch you, and uh having that kind of emotional intelligence to be aware of that is a I think is a real skill set in its own right anyway.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: What other skills do you think are are transferable from the world of professional sports into the business arena?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned there about that.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: What because we I when I when I think about it, I think like this teamwork and this determination and drive.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: But what is the reality?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: What are the transferable skills from professional sports, say, into your current career, which is financial planning?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you hit the nail on the head with those two things you just said there.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think hard work uh it goes hand in hand with anything you do in life, but teamwork is huge.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um so in basketball, you are uh you're on a team and you've got to selflessly give up sometimes your individual goals for the greater good.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by that is you'll have um you're you're graded on statistics, you'll have your averages, how many points you score, rebounds, block shots.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if your individual averages aren't good, you're you're putting yourself in jeopardy for getting yourself a contract the next year for that team or or other teams.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you're selfish and you shoot the ball too much or you don't make the right plays for the team, for the overall team, then then you won't win a championship.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: You will not, if you've got too many members on that team that will that cannot um sacrifice their own personal gain for the team, you will not win a championship.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: I've been on very talented rosters that haven't won championships for that for that very reason.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it's it's a little bit like um financial planning in that sense.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you cannot always be individually goal-oriented.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to do the right thing for the client, you've got to do the right thing for the business, and you've got to put those other other motivators or other other um incentives uh to the side and for the for the greater for the greater good.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one thing I'm learning in basket from basketball that's exactly the same thing as that.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can't always be so focused on your individual, you know, so just like in basketball is how many points you score.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: As a financial advisor, it would be how much revenue you generate.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: You cannot be solely focused on that because it will not it will not be be uh you know a success to you in the great great scheme of things.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's little things like that and understand it and having players to perform well, um, you know, not being jealous, being mature enough to to be able to celebrate your teammates as well.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's something that that sport teaches you very, very well because it's not just a pat on the back or a handshake.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: In sport, it's a it's a big media.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that player is getting you know champagne, it's getting um Twitter shout-outs, it's getting news headlines, it's getting back page of the paper.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you've got to be um happy for your team and and and want to share that that that thought with them as well.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think those are little tangible things that that sport teaches you um as well, if if that makes sense.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, 100%.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: I like I really I really like that explanation, actually.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: Teamwork's the dream work, isn't it, at the end of the day?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and I think that's what when you look at financial planning, you're absolutely right.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you're focusing too much on something like um prestige or too much on the money, then on your own personal gain, then perhaps there's a chance that you might be putting the company in jeopardy.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um perhaps you're trying to push something through that shouldn't go through, compliance shouldn't be putting it through.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: You're thinking about your own finances too much over the actual clients.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're putting that client at the heart of everything that you're doing, then you're gonna be doing the right thing in the for the whole business, for the whole process.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something that sports taught you then is to be more of a team player, let I more more team.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I think that's a really great, great transferable skill set anyway, into any business, isn't it?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that drive, that determination as well, that you know, pick yourself up and get yourself going.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find, have you found that that's been transferred into the world of business and financial planning?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I'm very, very grateful for that.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think what I what I always like to say is, are you working hard when people aren't looking?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's very easy to work hard when the director's there, or or you know, you've got a target and you've got to hit a target.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I think what what I've learned from how I got to America and how I kept my pro job is I worked hard when people weren't looking.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: My coach didn't know I was shooting at seven o'clock in the morning, or my coach didn't know I was doing extra sprints, or my coach didn't know I was working out in the gym, you know, doing extra.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was something I did to make sure that I could achieve my goals and and felt like I could deservedly achieve my goals.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think for me if I knew someone else was working harder than me, and that bothered me.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yes, in that sense, those drive, those, those, those things have helped me.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think especially in this this environment we're now working from home where you know you're not supervised, you could do, you know, you could do really, you could cut corners, you could do whatever you want.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I think having that self-discipline um to you know to consistently work hard every day um is something I've inherited from sport, and I'm very, very grateful to to have that for sure.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, cool.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, let's talk about your first financial planning job then.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: So you yeah, working for Mattioli Woods, okay.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: You obviously had a little bit of a stint there, didn't you, um, in recruitment before you got into financial planning.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh Michael Page, so financial services recruitment.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Did you did you un did you then pick up when you were at Michael Page what the role of a financial planner was?
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Did it did you sort of get it get a bit of a feel for it when you were working at Michael Page?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: Were you working on those types of vacancies at all or not?
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: No, not at all, really.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, Michael Page was um, you know, I I saw the the the company and recruitment for me looked like a really good um role because it was a complete, you know, it was a 360 role in the sense of you'd have your relationships with your client, candidate, sorry, and then you'd have the relationship with the client, the business.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I really liked that people, people um interaction.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it had to be with people.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like from sport, that was something I was I liked and I was good at, and I needed to have that people interaction.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: And recruitment was exactly that for me.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was a big company, Footy 250, and you know, I wanted that that more corporate structure, uh, I felt like.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, very difficult at the start.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was like America that says I'd go to an office every day, I'd have to sit in an office for nine, ten hours.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, do people do this on a daily basis?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's amazing.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um wear a suit, shirt, tie, and all these things.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was like I compare myself to a child wearing school uniform on the first day of school because it just wasn't something I was accustomed to.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'd go to work in tracksuit buttons and baggy shorts.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: That was my that was my attire for the last you know decade.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: So um that was very different um for me.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I think again, when the honeymoon phase run wore off, it was it was very difficult to to to adapt and I had to generate a more of an endurance for being able to sit at a desk all day, uh if I'm honest.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I was able to push through that and yeah, after nine months, I I gained a promotion and um you know things things were things were going very well.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but for me, I just I don't know, I I think I needed something uh more long term.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't I was still trying to figure out myself what I wanted to do, and this was my first job, remember, after basketball, and I still felt like um I was still searching for the identity.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: What did I want to do?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: What did I want to do?
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, I was actually interviewing with Matheoli Woods at the time, and um, you know, at the time it wasn't right for me, and I went to Michael Page, but um anyway, I I remember this very well.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was um finishing my my dissertation at Lusper University, and um I got given a call by one of the the wealth management directors at Matheoli Woods when he found out I was um withdrawing from the process.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, and he said, Look, you know, Anthony, are you sure you want to do this?
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think you'd be very good uh at wealth management.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I said, Yes, uh, thank you for the call, but I'd already accepted the job.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: So um, but that that phone call resonated with me all that time.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'd saved his number on my phone, and and it wasn't until two years after that um I had to drive past Matt Hillywood's office every day to get to Michael Page's office, actually.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um it was it was playing on my mind, you know, did I make the wrong decision there?
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I was did a more research on financial planning, and I thought I could be, I could really, really like this.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: This could be me for the next 20, 30 years.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: And um was one random morning I just got done with a session at the gym and I called for the director.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Oh hi, um, hi Doug.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was the abnormally tall guy you met around two years ago.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, can come can we grab a coffee?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that was that was essentially it.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: We grabbed the coffee before I knew it.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was interviewing for Batty Lee Woods, and two weeks later I was on the final interview and they they gave me a role.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what I really liked about this, Sam, is that I I didn't have to start from complete scratch.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: They actually valued my life experience, they they valued that I had another career previously.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: They they they they wanted to take me as a blank slate and say, look, we can put you on an accelerated fast track um training program.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, yes, it will take hard work, yes, it won't be easy, but if you give us that that energy and give us that commitment, we'll we could we could put you in a position where you could be a you know a qualified wealth management consultant, and that's all I needed.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was my opportunity there, and that was it.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the greatest thing I got in on a on an administration level while doing your exams, and everything was like they said, it was all condensed, all accelerated, but I was learning so much on a daily basis, so much.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you pass your exams and each month goes on, and yeah, you just I learned so much during that time.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love that now, and the training was fantastic, it was really, really good.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of role plays, real life situation, a lot of shadowing, observing.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was it was great, very, very good.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: Matthew Le Woods, um, yeah, they're good, aren't they?
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: At getting people through their qualifications and and and moving them through an accelerator program.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you yourself, you started a so okay, fantastic.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: Phoned them up, got yourself an interview, got back in there and thought, right, financial planning's for me.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: They got you on an accelerator program.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: And when we say accelerator program, that was you starting at grassroots level then, yeah?
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: So doing administration um for financial advisors, and then at the same time studying your qualifications.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um how long did it take you to partial level four qualifications?
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Just give people an indication of how long it, how long, how long it takes.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was about a year.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um a year, yeah, a year, year and a couple of months.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because RL6, remember, you can only take um at certain certain times.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, it was just over a year.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was tough.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you couldn't have without doing extra, I was doing morning and evening um studying.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: So around the you know, the kids work, the family, you know, it was it was it was a very um condensed schedule, but it was something I was very motivated in doing.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: So but you can you can achieve it with a full-time role, you know, a year, 18 months.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: So someone listening to this is thinking about perhaps changing career, um, whether they're coming from professional sports or another career altogether, then you know, being a guy who had a family, wife, kids, you know, house and all that kind of stuff, you were a busy guy, you still managed to fit those qualifications in whilst doing the job as well.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it took you just around just over a year to pass your level four qualifications.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think doing the level four qualifications whilst actually working within a financial planning firm, do you think that was massively beneficial?
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it would have been a lot harder if you were, say, studying whilst being a fireman or something like that?
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: I do because uh I'm I'm someone who learned from a textbook but uh and also real life.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I I would read something in a textbook and then the next day I would be part of that process.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was connecting the dots.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think sometimes a lot of times, uh, you know, you do something for a process.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: Someone tells you to do it, you just do it.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't really think deeply about it, you just do it because someone's told you to.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I was able to apply why I was doing it, and that was the best.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it got to I'd say the six 12 months mark I've been at my thousand woods, and the the dot the dots were starting to connect.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: The first six months, I was just doing things just because I was told to do them, and it's really hard to have a reasoning or or knowing why you're doing it.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I would say that helped doing the doing the studies along with having that that um frontline perspective, um, because you're just able to learn faster because you're actually seeing real life and you're a part of real life um processes.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you're first, so how long were you doing the administration role for?
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: Six months.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you do the administration for six months, and then the next six months you do uh you're assigned to a senior consultant or a director and you're your shadow.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you do a lot of their power planning, their support work, um, but you're also going to their meetings so you understand how they how they um interact.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what you can learn from a textbook.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and certain individuals can be incredibly intelligent, um, but don't quite have those cues with the with the clients.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt like that was my strength.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: I I love um interacting with people, and I always I feel like I understand people.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, that was the it was the most fun part because I got to see the the interactions, the real, the genuinely real you know, concerns of clients, the the elation, that the highs, the lows.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I love that, and then being able to implement the plan around those emotional responses from the clients.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a definite need for a high level of emotional intelligence, I think, within anything where you're dealing with with other human beings, because as you mentioned, there are so many opportunities to pick up cues, aren't there?
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: From facial expressions, how they say something, what might be they might be holding back, body language.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: There's just so much that you can that you can do when you have a higher level of uh higher level of emotional intelligence.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not to say that if you're a more technical type-minded person, you can't be a financial planner because there's plenty of them out there.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I think sometimes what I hear with with with people is that they've got that level of I'm really good relationship.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like you perfect example is recruitment.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a good recruitment consultant, you need to have a wicked level of emotional intelligence.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be able to build really strong relationships because you're spinning multiple plates and dealing with very stressful situations for people.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what you tend to find is that some people get put off by having to do the qualifications, do the exams, because they think it's going to be like, oh, Jesus Christ, I've got to go back to school, I've got to do the qualification, it's going to be really tough.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: But they know that they've got.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: ability to do to do the job, you know, and sit down with somebody and go through their financials and uh you know and understand the person basically the relationship side of it.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when you have a company that invests in that support to getting your qualifications done.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: So on the job learning, whether you'd be an administrator with a clear career structure into power planning, when you've got that running alongside your qualifications, somebody who's an experiential learner like yourself, like me as well, I need to feel, I need to see.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that has a massive benefit to somebody's early stage early on-tech career.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: I speak to a lot of administrators and sometimes they want to be a financial advisor as well, you've been sat in an administrator role for the last three years.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well it's like well what are your company doing about getting behind you and and supporting you?
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, have you asked to get put in front of clients perhaps to listen to what clients well they really want to do that with me.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it just shows, doesn't it, when you've got that company behind you that invests in you and want to uh to show you things, you know, and get you exposed to it and say come and learn with us, have a feel I think that's so much better than just you're an administrator, sit there and then if you want to do your qualifications, you can do your own and we won't pay for it.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's harsh, isn't it?
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's why we've got this big divide sometimes within financial planning with administration power planning that a lot of these company directors perhaps don't have a time to do it because there's a lot of smaller firms out there.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Matthew Woods is quite a large firm but investing in the the guys and getting them you know um learning on the job is going to massively improve their their commitment to pattern the qualifications and getting up to level you know getting up to level four and becoming a financial planner really quickly.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: So you went from administrator into a bit of power planning to go taste of that taste of power planning as well sitting in client meetings working alongside a financial advisor.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: So when were you signed off then to become a financial planner?
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was um December December 2019 and um what I will say in what in addition to what you said there Sam as well I was I was very very lucky.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I was uh I shadowed wealth management directors and uh team directors um two two of which um I'm very very appreciative and they didn't have time um please believe me when I I look at their schedule they didn't have time but they made time they invested time in me and that's something I'll be internally grateful for um mentors though you know this is this is the job of a men you know of a mentor and you know you've got directors doing that within Mattioli Woods it's um that's a rarity mate in all honesty you know it's um and as you say you're incredibly grateful for that.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and and I learned so much from them as well just the way that they conduct themselves but also the you know the the technical aspects as well it's it's kind of set a situation then provide a solution um in real time um a lot of the time as well which was it was it was just watching sometimes I'd sit there and in and watch poetry and just um it was just brilliant and fantastic and and I'll never forget that and and even to this day now I don't ever feel like they're um you know not accessible.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: Even Bob Woods um our founder um he is incredibly intelligent accessible all of the above he has an MB MBE for the Queen and but even him we could call him and he's accessible to us we we have an in-house investment team guys that are managing funds of half a billion pounds and you know they they they will talk to us you know we have time we can collaborate with them so it's very very accessible and very good in terms of the overall uh collaboration it's the teamwork aspect I was telling you about you know it's like the the star player not thinking it's too good for the team that's that's actually what's in there I I like being a part of uh of this team what's been what's been the toughest thing about being a financial planner for you so far wow um I think being exposed to new situations and and always wanting to deliver there and then so sometimes you could be asked a question and me I want to solve problems and I'd like to solve problems that there and then but sometimes you've got to take a step back and fully assess the situation and for well for fear of making a hasty decision and it not being the the best decision.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: But also it's okay that that you're continue continuing to learn you know you can have consultants that have been in this industry for five you know 10 15 20 years and they'll only ever come across that situation once a decade so I think the the most difficult thing is one of the things I love about this industry you it's it's all it's self-evolving you know it's very rare you have a client that you find a solution for and then the next client you can provide that same solution for it's it's not it just doesn't work like that.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's no off the shelf solution it doesn't work um so many different variables you know individual circumstances so I'd say the hardest thing is what I like most about the job and that's just it's just broad you know in and you the the solutions that you can provide um are still dependent on that on that individual and but that's hard I think I'm someone who likes to be good at what I do and so I was in a position where I basketball I played it long enough to understand where I needed to be what I needed to do and I mastered that role if if you want to say that um but to master this role takes a lot longer um I would say to to truly master um the financial planning role um and I think I've got to be disciplined and I've got to be patient because um you know I I'm not anywhere uh close to the end that that that master as of yet but um I want to I want to get there.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: So in reality then passing your level four qualification are you then a financial planner or are you literally just at the beginning of your journey?
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're at the beginning of the journey because you've got to get signed off as well and and there's a very um you know very intense process and so the last six months you're you're on uh a training um a training regime um per se and then you know if you don't get signed off then then you're you you the material cannot let you represent them as a wealth management um consultant and um that's um yeah that's more so pressure I would say is than than the exams themselves because you're you're thrown into high intense situations you know whether that be a role play or or a one-to-one examination and um you know you're you're you're getting you know very finely pointed uh assessed on each individual way not just um your technical knowledge but also how you conduct yourself and and how you know are you making sure you're disclosing the mandatories and and and being able to respond to to a client because I think it's a lot very easy for I don't know I think it's very easy for young consultants to try in information large how much they know and trying to prove to the client how smart they are instead of listening.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: So if you don't listen um that's one thing I've learned very very quickly in life in general if you do not listen then then the solution is not going to be as applicable as appropriate to that to that individual support.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: The training is very very difficult um so that's the last six months of the of the the programme so you get signed off then and then that's when you're um yeah you're you're essentially yeah a wealth management consultant strong financial advisor okay so since being signed off as a financial planner wealth wealth consultant you can wealth management consultant is what you call isn't it Matty Matty Ellie Woods so so since being signed off as a as a financial planner what's the you know what's it been like you know have you uh you know has that has it been massively different to like what you thought it would be or is it better or you know is the career something opening up to you going wow there's so many opportunities here um I'm pleased I got into it what's it been like for you since being signed off as a financial planner?
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's a tough question Sam because it's been it's been all of the above I feel like I've I've I've uh I've I've sort of expressed and experienced the majority of the emotions the the highs the lows because you'll I've inherited clients um now so that's brilliant that I'm able to build relationships with um you know with my clients and and provide solutions right after that but um also the way we're structured and we feel like it's uh the most genuine way to have a relationship is is to is to you know increase the client back yourself so you've got that business development um area or or section of things as well where you are increasing your your client portfolio but also your professional contact space as well so you know your accountants and solicitors um other finance professionals so that's been really really busy and um you know the first few months um you know kind of hit the ground running it was great and then the the global pandemic um hit and then you you you you feel like you're I felt like when it first happened it was uh oh no my my career is going to be um stored and delayed quite significantly here because we couldn't my job is to meet people and I couldn't meet people and um you know uh the first month of lockdown was literally just calling clients making sure they were okay reconfirmation from their strategy a lot of them were scared so that's where the emotional intelligence really came in for as an advantage for me is to emphasize and understand you know what what you know what their concerns were um so that was really good for me looking back now to have those experiences so so early in my career um but then going forward you know is to meet professional contacts you know that was stuff and I couldn't get in my car anymore and travel travel the country which that was the part of the the job I really enjoyed and that's my my motivator for me in doing this.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: But then you know the months came on and this became more socially acceptable you know your video calls your you know your conferences and podcasts etc so that's been a breath for fresh air you know I'm able to you know continue to to develop my professional network and um and communicate with with prospect clients etc so that is this this is a place now where I'm I'm really happy that I'm able to do my job um so I'm sorry I was not able to give you that that one um the answer to my question is it's been a it's been a roller coaster um it really has but I think we've been in a in a market and an environment where I think a lot of other people have felt that roller coaster too um I think I'd be very foolish to think that I was the only one um experiencing the highs and lows of the past few I think it's I think it's good I think it's good for your character.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've anybody that I've spoken to started financial planning.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like some people have started setting up their businesses on their own self-employed and then coronavirus hit people have just been signed off as financial planners people have just joined companies I think it's um it's great to start in a in a situation in an environment which is difficult because I set this recruitment business up in the last recession and I'm going through it all again now and I think God you know I remember how bad that was at the time and it was really stressful and um so many years later it's just it's no it's no different.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: But you kind of change and you look at diff you look at different ways to do things you adapt a little bit you mentioned about video and stuff I never did video stuff ever did video stuff but it was there it was just there for us to use but we chose not to use it.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden you're thrown in and you're forced into using it and it's become incredibly beneficial.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know um I don't know about you but I've put a lot of emphasis on my social media where I can't leave and meet people I thought well I'll up my game on social media and see how many people I can connect with and get to know me personally without actually visiting me on a face-to-face basis and that's been a really interesting journey it's helped me set up the financial planner life podcast um and that's been great and I've been meeting really great people like yourself and I've been learning loads about financial planning from the people that work within it and from that I'm thinking to myself well there's loads of people out there that would like to get into financial planning that don't know what it's like to work in work in it as a career and now they're learning.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: So there are lots of good things that can come off the back of something like this situation.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think it makes you a stronger more rounded individual um more sort of well I I agree I think um you know without struggle there's not there's no growth is there and and I think when you finally get through that struggle I'm sure you're you're you're living this as a business owner yourself you know when you do get through those tough periods and you're able to enjoy the uh the the rewards and and when when times are going well um and and sport is very much so like that you know but for no reason whatsoever you can still be sleeping well eating well but you can go for periods of just playing poorly and um when you have a bad day in the office it can go unnoticed but when you have a bad day in basketball professional sports you've got a couple of thousand people that see you have a bad day and then you know that's really it really plays on you and then maybe next the next match you know you again you've eaten right you've slept well but for whatever reason that ball's not going in the hole or you're not playing well you're not performing well and so that's really that's something that I'm learning that that was out of my control.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was controlling my controller both by my diet my rest my you know my my work ethic my my schedule but for whatever reason out of my control you sometimes just play well and that's exactly like the economy the environment you cannot control you know the the environment the the economy but as long as you're maintaining that then things will change your your bad form or the the unfortunate situation you're in it will it will change and that's something that um yeah I I I feel I feel like I've learned in a in a previous life or a previous um career and I'm taking this with me into financial planning.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah definitely I can you can tell from you as well and from other people I've spoken to sport definitely massively improves your mental strength I think and um your focus and perseverance I think you know it teaches you to get knocked down and get back up again.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna win every game also teaches you about teamwork doesn't it that ability to to fit in and to recognize it's not just a solo mission that you know if you focus too much on yourself then it's going to be a detriment to other people perhaps um yeah definitely there are huge transferable skills from from professional sport into financial planning.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: What's your sort of next what where do you want to see yourself going within the next say two to two to three years at Mattioli Woods then have you got a plan of action is are you still on a career structure there have they got one in place for you still or you hit the top and that's it now no not not not made it to the top yet so unfortunately it's uh I think that's why I like this I think it's um you you know I I would say anyone who wants to be a financial planner um it's not gonna come you know your fame and fortune is not going to come overnight um it it's not an easy industry in that sense but the rewards you know both you know financially or you know if you're if you're driven by by career you know status you know you you can um you know you you can obtain some some great heights and I think that's what I like about this it's it's a long-term play I think if you do things the right way you you know you you service you have good relationships with your clients then naturally you you know it will evolve and it and it will increase and you know and I think um I like that because the ceiling is there is no ceiling on this you know I don't need um good knees to be a a good wealth management consultant and you know support the clock was ticking you know there's the the average age of a you know a financial advisor is at 55 years old so that's that's still 20 years away from from where I'm I'm currently currently positioned.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I like that there's no ticking ticking clock that I had in my previous career.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you can go any which way I was I was a I was a club captain for a university team and and for um and for radars and I'd like to be a leadership role as well so maybe a a leadership role with people management and responsibilities is something that I I think um I'm very much motivated by and I like having that responsibility.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think I can see myself going going that way.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I I just like the the the the avenues are so so wide um and it's and I love that there's there's no restrictions there.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to continue to to to improve my my knowledge and like I said be a master at this uh you know within this industry and and I think legislation is always changing.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: So there's you're never going to know everything because at the point you feel like you do the tax rules have changed or legislation has changed or there's the sum of a ruling so that's something that's quite motivated as well you know it's it's you're always gonna you've got to evolve um you cannot stay stagnant and this is a this is a role where you you must you must adapt or or you could potentially be old school or obsolete.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah it's a good it's a good definitely a good industry to if you don't want to do something day in day out the same every day financial planning gives you that variety doesn't it yeah um that's that's one thing for sure and if you're that type of person there's always a problem to solve there's always a person to to to work out and to empathise with and to dig deeper to understand.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_00: I always liken financial planning and I'm liking it more really it's a well like a well-being proposition like almost like a counsellor isn't it you know this is where you're seeing so much of this um life-centred financial planning and talking about fears and worries and anxieties because these are the drivers aren't they that make us have bad habits with money and um bad habits in life in general and I think the more that we start to connect on a human basis um the better the better we can be as consultants in whatever field that we're in.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I think financial planning is definitely definitely an area so if someone's on the outside looking in perhaps on another career perhaps they're working in a different profession and they're a bit bored of their profession and they're thinking about swapping over to something which is a bit more meaningful I think financial planning historically has always had um connotations with people in students who make who when they come and see you they just take your money and make your make make money from your money and that's it you know they're just after your money and historically there's always been a bit of a negative view about financial planners but now it's changing you know people are um sitting down with a financial planner who's actually giving a crap about their wellbeing and that's having a positive impact on somebody's life their happiness their fears their worries you know and they can go into their retirement or stop worry.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know what it's like you've got a kid in you you sit there and you're thinking to yourself God what am I going to be doing when I'm 50 60 years old like you know when you actually sit down and work out your financials you feel a lot calmer don't you you know you do you feel calmer about it there's always a reason to as well there's always an underlying reason so if a client comes to me and says I my my goal is to have a million pound pension fund and then you think okay that's great we can we can you know we can implement a plan to how you're going to get there but why do you want to get there and then that's when you start uncovering the the the human behind that 100 pound pension fund objective you know they want to go on three holidays a year they have a family that they want to treat they have um you know they've had a a volatile um career and they just want that financial security in in retirement you know for whatever reason it is there are there are real human beings behind yeah and that's that's the I think that's the great thing about that and it changes you know you do an Anglo trustees meeting on a year basis and that person could be feeling this way one year something could happen to them lifewise whether that be a health scare or or um I don't know a life event and and their their perception on the world changes so we must adapt and and adjust that financial plan accordingly as well so it's um it's really neat in that in that sense and you're right it's it's understanding that that individual and what what makes them tick um because it's very few people that have just been motivated purely from they want to look at that fund and just see the you know the six zeros you know the it's very rare that you'll get an individual that just wants to see that that figure and there's there's always reasons why on a final note what single piece of advice would you give somebody who's early on in their career in financial planning what single piece of advice would you give them to get ahead um I would firstly say it's not it's not easy.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_01: So if you if if you think this is going to be one of those situations where you can you know you know go through the exams you know half assed and then and sort of get through there it's not one of one of these because when you do become a financial planner um it's not the end of the the it's kind of like me in the States when you get to America the American dream doesn't just you're not just gonna chill there's so much more work to be done um you know when you are qualified and you're you're you're a younger or or an earlier financial planner.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess my first piece of information is that you just just understand that that it's it's difficult but that's a good thing.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's a reason why there's a shortage of financial advisors because it's not easy.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know any any industry I think that's that's easy or or or quite easily attainable then there wouldn't be a demand for it.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know supply would outlive the demand there.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: So and just know that it's not always going to be subject from rainbows um is what I would say but if you're if you're serious about being a financial planner um then then that that's all that's all that's all you need.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you know if you if you can commit to yourself and think I want to be a financial planner that that's all you need Sam.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah that that's all you need.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_01: If it's something for you that's half assed if you're oh I might be good at that probably difficult to try it out um because you're gonna have to invest a lot of time and energy in in the earlier stages to even get qualified.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_01: When you are qualified it's invest a lot of time and energy into actually getting up and going because it's not an overnight um win in this industry.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say you need to be you need to have that inner motivation that you that you want to do this.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_01: For individuals that don't know if they want to do this then perhaps you know uh you know an administration role or a or a or a fast track and consultancy role like I did myself you know that way you'll know after 12 18 months whether it's for you long term and you know if you get that buzz and you get that excitement from from seeing interactions from observing meetings and if you could look at senior consultant and think to yourself I want to do that one day that that is for you.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_01: If it's not then you've just you know you've you spent 12 18 months trying it and it hasn't worked out then you you you crack on and look for the for the next thing but that's what I would advise um I I would advise to to do it that way and try and always incorporate yourself in with a financial um with a wealth management firm or financial services firm you know try you know you give the example of being a firefighter and and studying um separately I think me personally I I could be wrong but I think that personally is a bit more of a difficult route because you're not in the front line there you're not seeing things from a a real life um perspective and and I think that's where you're gonna that's where you could potentially be for the next 20 30 years in that real life environment.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that would be my advice um yeah that would be my advice I think I don't think there's there's any other pointers there but yeah just just crack on with those studies if you're thinking about uh opening up that textbook.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah crack in perfect well listen thank you so much for your time today Anthony really really we appreciate it and thanks for sort of telling us about your career and your basketball career and how you've moved into financial planning.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_00: And thanks for being so positive about it as well.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know it just clearly shows that you know that energy and drive and enthusiasm that you've got those transferable skills that have come from sport.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of us do have it inside of us it's just it's never easy is it you've just got to get back up again keep going keep going keep going there is no end you know you just get better and better and better and that's what financial planning is all about isn't it?
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: Top man, great.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: Anthony thanks for your time today mate.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_01: Pleasure Sam absolute pleasure cheers mate