Latest / Sid & Friends In The Morning / Giovanni Galante & Charles Wolf | 9/11 Widowers Update Listeners on Petition Attempting to Bar Mamdani from Ground Zero

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Giovanni Galante & Charles Wolf | 9/11 Widowers Update Listeners on Petition Attempting to Bar Mamdani from Ground Zero · Sid & Friends In The Morning

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Bruce Blakeman, did you not work for the Port Authority
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: at one point?
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: I know you did.
• 0:04
  Speaker 3: I was a commissioner of the Port Authority of New
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: York and New Jersey for eight years.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Eight years the Port Authority. So this is gonna hit
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: close to home for you. We're about to commemorate twenty
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: five years. I know you listen to me every day.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: I am beating this drama. I had Bill Donnie you
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: want from the Catholic League. He's written a long letter
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: urging Mamdanie not to come nine to eleven. I brought
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: on survivors, victims, the families. I brought on the guy
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: that started the petition. I'm bringing on another lady. I
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: am on a mission to keep this mayor away.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I know I can't do it, and I know the
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: odds are stacked against me, but I also know that
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: the overwhelming majority, not even the overwhelming majority of nine
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: to eleven families, don't want this anti American mayor there.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: So I'm not asking you whether you think he'll come
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: or not, or if you a governor, if you would
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: stop him from coming or not. I want, as a
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: guy that work with a port authority who lost people
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: that day. I want you to tell me, do you
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: think the mayor should show up?
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: Well, first of all, said, I don't know if you
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: know this or not, but my nephew was murdered on
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: that day. No, Sergeant Tommy Jurgens, my sister Linder's older boy,
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: the oldest boy. I'm twenty six years old, Army veteran,
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: volunteer firefighter, New York State Court officer, was giving first
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: day to a woman who was severely burned in Tower
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: two when it collapsed on him. We never got a
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: body or DNA. We only got his side arm and
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: his badge. So it's very personal to me. I am
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: a family member and I don't think zorn Mundanmi should go.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: It's as if you know someone's having a wake and
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: they asked you not to go to the wake for
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: personal reasons, you wouldn't go. So I mean, I don't
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: think he should go. But here's where I'm going to say.
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: If he's hell bent on going, I think people have
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: a way to respectfully protest that. Turn your back on him,
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: don't say anything to him, don't make a ruckus be
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: solemn because it is a solemn day. Just turn your
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: back on.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Him the courageous man that started the petition to keep
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: the mayor away. His wife Grace twenty nine years old,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: murdered that day, and a friend of his name, Charles Wolf.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: I think Grace worked the Cannipitzgerald. His friend Charles wolf Wolf,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: who's a love Your wife, Catherine, was also murdered that day.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: She wrote at Marsh Emma Clennan. So with that said, Giovanni, Charles,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: welcome to the show. How are you guys today?
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Good morning, great, thanks for having me on.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: You got it.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Let me start with you for a second. Giovanni, when
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: you came on the show a couple of weeks ago
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: and I was humbled. You said, you try to reach
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: out to me when you started this petition, so thank
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: you for that.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: I think you had.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: About fourteen thousand signatures. The next day you had about five,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: and last I heard, you were closer to ninety. What
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: is the actual number on the petition right now?
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: It's eighty one nine and fifty two I believe, And
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: when we spoke, I only had about fifteen hundred two thousand.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: You didn't give you enough enough credit for your your
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: listeners and the support that I've gotten. They love you.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: They love this petition. I have to say. I called
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: you back and I said, I want to come on
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: the show, and I want to thank everyone that sent
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: me emails, everyone that signed the petition, and everyone that's
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: sharing it. They've been great. I got to say, your
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: audience is spectacular.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Ah, thank you. Wow, they're real Americans.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Go ahead, I'm sorry, No, no, thank you.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: They're real Americans, are patriots, and they love you, and
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: they you know, they love Grace and you know the
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: same thing I've never told to you before, Charles. This
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: will be the first time. Obviously. My heart goes out
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: to you, and God rest your build a wife, Catherine Sole.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: I'm devastating. I'm gonna ask you some of the same
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: questions I asked my friend Giovanni here. Some of them
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: will be a little difficult, I'm warning you now, But
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: take me back to that, Yeah, take me back to
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: that horrible morning coming up on twenty five years and
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: nine to eleven. Where were you and what were you
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: doing when you figured out that Catherine was not coming home?
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: Well, I live in Lower Manhattan. I live in Greenwich Villege,
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: the historic district of Greenwish Village on Bleaker Street and
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: she had left her work. She'd Interestingly enough, she did
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: express the fact that her mind is not at ease
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: that morning.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: And yes, you know why that was the case. You
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: know why what she was referring to it not.
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: Then, but I do now. My wife had a tendency
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: to be a prescient In other words, she could decide
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: to do something and against all odds, it would happen.
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: She kind of well, she actually had a dream the
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: night that she accepted the position at Marsha McLennan, which
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: which was in the like the two Thursds of the
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: way through August. She had a dream and she told
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: me about the dream, and she wrote it down and
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: I found that book in January of two and it
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: is a prophetic dream about the attacks themselves. Oh my god,
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: I want to go into any more of that, but
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: at this point, but yeah, she has she had she
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: was prescient, I guess didn't really know it until after
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: the fact and found this book. But she uh, you know,
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: we live in a small studio apartment, uh hit the
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: corner of Bleaker and Thompson Streets in the village, and
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: I had turned off the television so I could get
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: some work done because I work from home, and she said,
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: would you mind turning the TV back on?
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Please?
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: My mind is not at ease. I had never heard
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: her say that, and we've been together for thirteen years.
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: So she went to work, and I happened to be
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: a pilot, just a private pilot, not an airline or
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: a jet pilot, just a private you know, four seater,
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: six seater propeller plane. And I know I've been to
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: a lot of air shows and so forth in my years.
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: And I heard the plane fly over, and instantly I
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: knew it was a twin engine plane at full throttle.
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: And then I hit it hurt. I heard it hit
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: the building, but I didn't know what it hit the
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: building because I faced the other direction. My little balcony
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: faces uptown rather than downtown. But it flew directly over
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: our building. And then I ran down into the street
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: and saw the gash in the building, and it all
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: went from there. I ended up calling the FBI to
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: tell them that was no accident, because I knew it
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: was deliberate. And so that's what happened that morning.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Did you have a chance I know? For example, how
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: what Lutnik has become a friend of mine was with
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: President Trump. His brother was able to make a call
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: before he died.
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: That day in that the plane hit well, first of all,
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: I know Howard very well, and he and his sister
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: and I did a lot of post nine to eleven work.
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: But the plane hit Captain's office directly four hundred and
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: fifty miles an hour, so she never knew what was coming,
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: and she never knew it happened because she, she and
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: all the others right in her office area were instantaneously vaporized,
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: which I'm glad she didn't suffer.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Of course. Absolutely. This is Charles Wolfe who lost his
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: wife Katherine, and Giovanni Gallante who went the courage to
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: start this position petition.
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: One more thing before you go, the governor or the
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: of the man who's running for governor. I forgot it's Blakemanaman.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: He gave it.
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: He gave a piece of advice. And I wanted to
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: say that I've already done that because Mandy showed up
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: at the visitation of King Charles the Third back in
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: late April, and remember the mayor. The mayor was going
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: around kind of interrupting conversations and so forth, and I
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: didn't like that. So when he came over to me.
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: My hands were in my pockets and I turned my
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: back to him.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Good for you, good for you. Well, when we get
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: back to you, Charles, we're not done yet with you,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: just yet. But Giovanni, you said you went from fourteen
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: thousand signatures actually fourteen hundred on your petition to better
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: than eighty thousand. Now, do you have any more confidence
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: today than we spoke two weeks ago that maybe, just
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: maybe something is getting through to this more on this
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: mayor or do you feel like, while yes, my audience
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: has been great and New Yorkers have been great, that'll
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: still be there and maybe you'll have to do what
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Bruce Blateman said and Charles just said, just turn your
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: back on this creep.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Well, I want to say your audience is great, and
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: it is awesome. But I told you I was doing
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: a press conference on September eighth at twelve pm at
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: City Hall.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: I got good news for you. I got news for
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: good news for you. You did tell me about that,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: and you called me yesterday and I will be coming
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: with Bruce Blakeman.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Awesome, awesome. I you know I asked for your support.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Bruce Blakeman would be great to have him there as well,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: obviously as a citizen and someone that cares about his nephew.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: It's a you know, a thing that if we get
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: enough people there, maybe we have a better chance of
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: you know, telling this guy, dude, stay home, you're not welcome,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: just stay away. You know this this press conference, I
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: think we'll bring a lot of people to City Hall
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: on that day at twelve o'clock September eighth. I asked
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: your audience, whoever can make it, I would appreciate them
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: standing by us and just being there, just for the support.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: The more people we have, the better it is. The
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: you know, one other thing that I do want to
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: mention is all these people that show love. It's great,
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: but we have a few trolls, you know, just the
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: few out of the eighty two thousand and maybe eight,
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: so it's a small fraction, but they keep calling us
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: bigots and guacious and all these names. Obviously, and I
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: want to make it clear so they understand the simple words.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: We do not hate anyone, no Muslims, no Jews, no Blacks,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: no Irish, no Italian. We just hate the fact of
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: people coming here to try to change our way of life,
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: our way of life is the American Dream. It's simple
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: if you can't understand those few words. For the people
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: that do think that we hate everyone, we just hate
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: the people that hate us, that want to kill us.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: It's not about religion or any other ethnicity, just the
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: people that hate us. And I hope that this can
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: clear up all the news media that talks about, you know,
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: bring us into a world of heat with Palestine and
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: Islamic people and all of these words that we didn't
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: make them up.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: They did. Yep.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: These are things that we want because we believe in
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: the American dream. Okay, that day changed our lives and
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: America forever. So I think it should clear up most
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: of the people that you know strolling around, you know
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: us the nine to eleven people, and they're making them
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: afraid to even speak out. Some of them.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, I know, George Soros has a packed out there.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: And in fact, I had Joanne Areyola on my counsel
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: lady from Queen's, and she talked about and then I
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: brought on a lady Charles directors to you, who actually
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: helps wun that package is in charge of it. And
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: her name is Elizabeth Miller and her father Doug Miller
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: was murdered that day till he was a firefighter. Anybody
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: who died that day was murdered. That's the bottom line.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: So she lost her dad that day. She was six
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: years old. And I heard her news clipping a couple
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: about a week ago, and she said that she was
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: okay with the mayor coming. So long story short. She
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: was on this show a couple of days ago, and
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: I said, you know, Liz, and I love you. Don't
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: get me wrong, I love you. I felt horrible for you.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: But this mayor hangs out with people, but he's friends
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: with them. He doesn't know him. He's friends with people
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: who thought your father. Who thinks your father deserved to die?
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: That's right, sounds rough, right, they think your father deserved
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: to die. Do you know? As sweet as she was,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: she was on for fifteen minutes. I couldn't sway her
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: to go the other way. She thinks that the mayor. Now, look,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: she's a Democrat and she would have voted for mom Donnie.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: She admits that she lives on Long Island. But are
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: you shock, Charles when you hear any family member of
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: a nine to eleven victim okay with the mayor showing up.
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: Everyone has their opinion. Some people have an opinion such
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: as that because they aren't fully informed. Some other people
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: just have a way of reasoning that doesn't want to interfere.
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to put the lady down. I mean,
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: she lost her dad. I would jeez, I'd hate to
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: have lost my dad at six years old, wouldn't really
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: know who he was. But you know, everybody has their
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: their viewpoint, and I don't agree with it at all.
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: I have my own reasoning for it, and it's basically
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: that Mendami is essentially an Islamist. I have no problem
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: with Islam as a religion, but don't force it on me,
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: and don't force its rules on me. In church at
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: the cathedral Saint John the Divine, and I have been asked.
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: I'm a reader there and I was asked to read
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: the Quran a couple of times for the morning service.
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: And it was harmless, very good things. But I believe
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: what King Charles said in his speech to Congress this
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: last spring, okay, is that Sharia law which comes along
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: when you want to take over a country. Now, you see,
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: being Muslim in your own private sense is fine, but
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: it's when they start to apply Sharia law, which controls you.
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: And there's a reason why the First Amendment says there
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: shall be no establishment of a religion. It doesn't prevent religion.
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: It means that everyone has the right to exercise their
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: own private practice of religion. So that's fine. But when
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: you want to take over a country, when you want
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: to when you want to oppress people, that's a whole
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: different situation. So that's the way I see it.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, you're right, you're running the money. You got about
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: three minutes to go, and want to get one more
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: from both of you. Giovanni. Again, those signatures went up
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: eighty thousand fold. For folks are listening right now that
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: are victims' families or New Yorkers in general. Has been
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: moved closer and closer to this day. What is your
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: message to them this morning?
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Well, if they want to sign the petition, they can
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: look it up under the change dot org and if
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: they can't find it, they can email me and I
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: would send it to them under the change dot org.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: It's under the memory of those loss in September eleventh,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: with dignity. They can look it up or they can
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: email me at WTC one nine to eleven, one at
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: AOL and I love them all and appreciate all their feedback. Well,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: thank you.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: They love you too. Now your wife, of course, Grace
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: good Restersoul was twenty nine years old. I don't know
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: how old Katherine wants, Charles, but I'm going to ask
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: you to do something that Giovanni did for me, which
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: was hard on him, but he got through it. And
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: that is, if you had a chance to visit heaven
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: this morning, and I have one more conversation with Hathwine,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: what would you say to her?
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: I love you. I would hug her and I would
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: say tell her I love her, but she already knows that.
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: But I would tell her I love her. And let's say,
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: let's say it was a thirty second in her change,
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: and I would just tell her I love her, and
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: that when my life ends, I look forward to being
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: with her again.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: How old was Catherine on that tay job forty?
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: She had just turned forty.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, listen. Both of you guys are great men.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: You're courageous and I love you, guys. What do you do?
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Love you?
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: And New York loves you, America loves you, And I'm
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: here for you, and I will do whatever I can
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: in my power to help you do whatever you want
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: to do and accomplished certainly. Again, like I said, Giovanni,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: I spoke to Bruce Blakeman last night. We're going to
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: go together on the eighth to be there for you guys.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: But anything else, you guys ever need, reach out to
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: me and God bless you both the great patriots, and
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: I'm willing sorry for what you guys about to go
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: through the last twenty five years.
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: I william your word have on my heart.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: Charles.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're quite a guy yourself, buddy.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: You're sweet man. You too, Giovanni. I love you both.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much. That is Giovanni Galante and Charles Wolf.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Giovanni lost his twenty nine year old wife, Grace on
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: that day and Charles lost his forty year old wife,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Kathwine on that day.
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: Thanks for listening to Sit and Friends in the Morning.
• 17:27
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• 17:30
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• 17:33
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• 17:37
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• 17:41
  Speaker 5: button on all major podcast platforms Plus, follow WABC on
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: social on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and X see you next
• 17:50
  Speaker 5: time for a new episode, so you never have to
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: wonder
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: What the heck is going on here