Latest / The Dawgs - A Cleveland Browns Podcast / Rest-of-Season Expectations for the Browns (ft. Angel Ortiz) - Cleveland Browns Podcast for 11/2/25

Transcript

Rest-of-Season Expectations for the Browns (ft. Angel Ortiz) - Cleveland Browns Podcast for 11/2/25 · The Dawgs - A Cleveland Browns Podcast

• 0:07
  [SPEAKER_04]: Welcome to the Dog's Podcast with your hosts, Lake Renaker, Justin Charles, and Josh All.
• 0:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, what's up, Browns fans?
• 0:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to another episode of the Dogs Podcast.
• 0:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Josh All and I've got Angel Orcs.
• 0:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's from the bearded Brown show joining me today during the pie week.
• 0:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Angel, how are you doing today?
• 0:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, trying to enjoy some stress free week.
• 0:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's no Browns being played.
• 0:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, you gotta keep your eye open because anything can drop and enter very.
• 0:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: hopefully making a try to make the team better.
• 0:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hopefully.
• 0:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and we'll talk about some potential trade moves that could be coming here in the next couple days and all that kind of stuff.
• 0:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, even when the Browns don't play, I know you say stress free as far as worrying about whether or not they're going to go out and crap the bed on Sunday, but it, man, there's just always something going on with this team, especially with this.
• 0:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: quarterback situation, the coaching, conversation, all that stuff of which we'll cover all that stuff today.
• 1:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Figure, we just bring you guys a a by week Sunday episode talking about the brown sense.
• 1:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: If we're not playing today, everybody else is watching all these other teams and ours is sitting at home getting ready to play the jets who are also sitting at home.
• 1:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: this week getting ready for us.
• 1:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's going to be interesting next weekend to see these two teams coming off their buys, playing each other in New York.
• 1:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: So before we dive into everything, I just want to kind of lay it out.
• 1:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll be talking about the first half of the season, kind of reflecting a little bit.
• 1:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll be projecting and talking about the second half of the season expectations, things we hope to see, things we don't hope to see, all that kind of stuff.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then
• 1:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: some head coaching stuff, maybe some draft.
• 1:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll get into all that.
• 1:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: But before we really get going, I want to play this voice mail that Brandon sent us.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: My name's Brandon Fisher from Ohio.
• 1:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just want to know if Kevin Stephansky will be fire.
• 2:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks Brandon for the voice mail.
• 2:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Very simple question.
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: And this is something that I'm excited to talk to Angel about, because
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, first of all, talk to us about your show.
• 2:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Your podcast, The Bearded Browns, and The Divide, because you've got to divide on our show about Kevin Stephanski and kind of our perspective on him.
• 2:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: So why don't you fill our viewers in on that?
• 2:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: be at a browns podcast show we do live show every Tuesday now Saturday, Tuesday, 730 Saturdays at today.
• 2:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: But there's a divide amongst, well, I don't want to say divide.
• 2:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Most of us is on like this thing.
• 2:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's get a move away from Kevin and one of us, Chad, is the one that's like, guys, he needs some more time.
• 2:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: He needs some more time.
• 2:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I
• 2:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we're like, how much more time he's been here for five years, his numbers are slowly still all going down.
• 2:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: He has not shown any improvement in the thing that he was good at, which was, you know, setting up plays, like in week one, he will do something and then week three, he will draw off that play that was successful and trick the defense is not going any better at all.
• 3:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Our offense is stagnant.
• 3:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've dropped 33% in scoring since 2023.
• 3:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't understand why fans are so saying it's not Kevin's fault.
• 3:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: He might not be all his fault, but there's some fault there that we're going to have to start thinking about like let's move on.
• 3:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so and everybody watching here knows for us, it's Blake.
• 3:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think Chad and Blake should do their own episode.
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: They could do their pro Kevin propaganda and put out their reasoning why the Brown thing to keep giving him more opportunities.
• 3:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm with you, Justin, you know, the other guy on our show.
• 3:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's he's feeling the same way as the rest of us like, and this is your six.
• 3:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, I, you know, Jake Burns from Brown's film break down.
• 3:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I had him on earlier this week and we were talking and he said, you know,
• 3:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: You don't see any examples where a head coach in the middle of their tenure have two back to back horrendous losing seasons like this and survive.
• 4:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: He said, if you get, if you're going to have back to back bad seasons and still keep your job, it's whenever it lets your first season with a new team and that's the struggle season.
• 4:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the second one might be a little struggle as well, but never in the middle, do you put two of these together and then still keep your job?
• 4:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and technically, 2023, if it wasn't for Joe, he was on the trend of going, having a negative season too, losing season, so that would have been more his second or third in a row.
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then we'd most like to have a different conversation, especially going into this year if he would have survived that.
• 4:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't understand.
• 4:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: why that conversation still can't be applied.
• 4:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because if you take away Joe and I know Chad hates when we do take away stats, you know, if you take away Joe in the, and just the lightning and the bottom just so happens, circumstance or the happen, even if you go a little deeper, like what teams do we play against you?
• 4:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then you're like, oh, I get it.
• 4:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe that's why we got a little lucky there.
• 5:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, but yeah, so for me, that's what convinced me a little bit after really looking at you because I was a big Kevin guy even going into this season.
• 5:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, Kevin needs this whole year, Kevin needs this and then after maybe week four, I was like, yeah, I think this is a big Kevin needs to kind of we need to talk about this Kevin train like maybe getting off it.
• 5:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I know we were all big Kevin guys, too.
• 5:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like you said, even leading into this year and took a lot of crap from a lot of people online over the last several years for being, I mean, there were people that were out on Kevin in year one, even though, you know, he took us to the playoffs for the first time in forever and all that kind of stuff.
• 5:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm with you if you look at 2023 and you take out those five games from Joe Flacco that we're just insane.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: That would have been what Kevin's fans could have one winning season, how to six.
• 5:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, that's not very good.
• 5:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know why we're settling for that.
• 5:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I know that season did end up being a winning season for us.
• 5:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: So now we're talking two out of six.
• 5:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's still not very good.
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Are we are we just settling for, well, you know, 33% of the time we might make the playoffs.
• 6:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't, that's not good enough for me.
• 6:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, and if you see teams in their division, they don't settle that way.
• 6:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, dude, this first time I get rid of Tom and he hits the playoffs every year, because they want more.
• 6:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, sure, you hit the playoffs and now we want, we want to improve.
• 6:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: We want to grow from this.
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think a lot of Brown fans, including me, I fell into the trap of what he's better than what we had.
• 6:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's better than what we had.
• 6:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: And now you're like,
• 6:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it was even better than what we had because he had, like you said, outside of, you know, he had two good seasons and, you know, then you start to think about, well, maybe he's, maybe he's what we thought we had, you know, we used to that.
• 6:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, and that's my argument with Blake a lot of times, too, is yes, his Kevin the best side coach we've had, maybe since with the return in 99, yeah, is he better, like a lot better than Hugh Jackson and Freddie Kitchens, who came right before him?
• 6:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but that bar is so low.
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't take much to be better than those guys.
• 7:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I talk with Jacob about it and anybody that you listen to in the media, like heaven's a nice guy.
• 7:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's a good dude.
• 7:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think he's a good dude.
• 7:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think the players do like him.
• 7:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think he's a, he's a good coach, but I just don't think he is a great coach.
• 7:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think he's going to get us where we want to go.
• 7:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: And like you've said a little bit of
• 7:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: whatsoever.
• 7:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's been the same the same complaints that I heard about Kevin Safanski from fans in year one are the same complaints that I still hear now in year six and now they're the complaints that I'm going with.
• 7:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like I've been hearing the same shit for six years.
• 7:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 7:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: At some point we got to look at this and say how much longer we're going to do this.
• 7:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: What is your opinion on time?
• 7:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: He reads, like, where do you see?
• 7:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because I mean, we went to this season, even the players were like, mainly Joe Protonio and I think Taylor were like, oh, it's going to be totally different.
• 7:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to go back to 2023 and pool.
• 7:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to do a lot of screens, a lot of play action, whatever.
• 8:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: All that fun stuff that we liked, what Kevin used to do.
• 8:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then I thought maybe adding Tommy Reese would be some wrinkles, some new new age type stuff out.
• 8:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not.
• 8:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just not seeing a do you think he's just not incorporating it or do you think he's just not listening or do you think Tommy Reese is just.
• 8:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: me just there's no going out with that.
• 8:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'm not saying like this is makes Kevin a bad person.
• 8:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think Kevin's approach to his own fault.
• 8:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think he's more of a my wear the highway type guy like I'm going to make what I do work.
• 8:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to I can do this.
• 8:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: I can make it work and it doesn't and I think that
• 8:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of like with Ken Dorsey last year, you know, we wondered what's, I mean, what's Ken Dorsey, what's the marriage here?
• 8:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, he hand over play calling duties to Ken Dorsey, and it was like, okay, it's still the same crappy offense.
• 8:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how much Tommy Reese is actually involved in coming up with schemes or, you know, play designs or anything like that.
• 8:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Which is why if he hands over play calling Tommy Reese, I don't know what's really going to change.
• 9:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, I really don't know why I'm asking like is there anything that we've seen new that we could say Tommy Reese can improve anyone because I haven't seen it because it's to me is the same offenses last year just a different quarterback who's struggling to even look down the field.
• 9:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, for sure, and then, you know, talking about like Batonio and teller, you know, and their comments prior to the season, I feel like the Browns fed everybody at load a crap.
• 9:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think they fed the fans a load a crap.
• 9:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think they fed the players the same crap.
• 9:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: And obviously, whenever you're going into a season, there's hope, there's optimism, there's, hey, this is what we can be, this is what we can do from all fronts, from the media, from the fans, from the players and all that kind of stuff.
• 9:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then you see it on the field, actually start to play out.
• 9:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's, okay, we, they lied about this.
• 9:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: They weren't right about that.
• 9:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: I wish I'd listened to these reporters during camp, who said Dylan Gabriel doesn't look like an NFL quarterback because he doesn't look like an NFL quarterback.
• 9:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: They were absolutely right about that.
• 10:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, we can start talking about the quarterback situation as well, but I mean, as far as Kevin, would you, would you, if it were your decision, just move on from Kevin at the end of this season?
• 10:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would.
• 10:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think I would.
• 10:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think he showed me enough to move on.
• 10:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: And partially that is if Dylan is his guy, and he said Dylan would help improve this offense.
• 10:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd start to question his ability to even see talent at this point.
• 10:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 10:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of talk about Kevin, you know, Dylan's Kevin's guys.
• 10:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's got his hands all over this and that's true.
• 10:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you bring him in and then you spend a whole off season training camp, Ricky training camp, many training, many camp.
• 10:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: trying to give this guy extra reps and he's shown nothing.
• 10:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: How can I trust you going to if hypothetically with Pavitavas, like you pick a number, you get a quarterback and with your number for it's fifth, third pick.
• 10:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: How are you going to develop him when you have any of the develop a quarterback since you've been here?
• 11:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: So that's my fear.
• 11:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: That is my fear of, I'll get Kevin one more year because you really his offense aligned.
• 11:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't good.
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: You've all these issues as well.
• 11:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: What has he done this six years previous this year to show me that he has any development qualities of any player.
• 11:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let alone an offense.
• 11:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's, I mean, it is a fair criticism for sure.
• 11:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I hear it all the time from people and I agree.
• 11:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, there's, there's been nothing.
• 11:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: We've, every decision that this regime has made at the quarterback position has been the wrong one.
• 11:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Every single one, I can't think of one.
• 11:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: That was like, oh, that was a good call.
• 11:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, they've all been,
• 11:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I just somebody's out there screaming.
• 11:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Joe Flacco in 2023, guys, they're we were out of options.
• 11:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: This dude was at home on the couch and nobody wanted him.
• 11:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: We just threw a freaking dart in the dark and just happened to pop the balloon with Joe Flacco and hit some lightning and that was it.
• 11:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
• 11:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you see what Joe Flacco look like in our offense this year.
• 11:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Nothing.
• 11:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: He looked, he looked, wash, beat, old, just miles will retire on the spot.
• 11:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Nine days later, he's down in Cincinnati, thrown for, oh, like, whether what, a 350 yards and beat in the Steelers.
• 12:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: something is a miss.
• 12:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I guess one last question on the Kevin front for you, I've asked this to the other guys.
• 12:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think Blake's ever really answered me.
• 12:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe you can ask Chad and see what he says.
• 12:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you were in charge of an NFL team and you had your head coach in place, would you hire Kevin Stephansky to be your offensive coordinator?
• 12:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Not, not, not, not right now,
• 12:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I mean, based upon his quality of work and how he's, he's depressed, like he's depressed over the years, he's slowly, like you said, cavemanish offense, you can't sit there and say, well, he's going to come in and add something to the room.
• 12:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's hard for me to say, I'm actually getting, I'm getting annoyed even with myself because I had all my eggs on one bass who were coming because after the couple years of that he had even the losing season, you sing something there.
• 12:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: But then the last two seasons, I'm like, oh, last season, half this season, I'm like, dude, I just can't do this anymore.
• 13:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: You just can't move the ball down field and you're getting three yards per pass.
• 13:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just, you're scoring for 15 points again.
• 13:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Even when he was even in his high years, he was still middle of the row with scoring per game.
• 13:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it was like 13, 12 to 15.
• 13:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you look at it, the stats and the rankings, I would be.
• 13:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: I would know.
• 13:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I would be able to bring him in offensive.
• 13:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's it's never been a top 10 offense and, you know, going back to what you said about what, you know, what are we supposed to expect out of this regime and coaching staff if they draft a quarterback high next year, you know, it's going to be a, if they draft a quarterback in the first round next year, then you're talking about another rookie season.
• 13:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: for a quarter back another developmental year, and maybe year two, this guy starts to show that next level leap, kind of like a Drake maze taking this year.
• 13:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's really your best hope is that they can show some flashes as a rookie, because it's going to be a struggle no matter who it is, as a rookie in the NFL.
• 14:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then you want the second year to be like, hey, look, we can maybe show some flashes and do some things.
• 14:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now we're talking three, four years down the road before we're actually
• 14:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: compete for something that matters type of football in Cleveland.
• 14:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I just don't know if Kevin's the one to be leading that ship.
• 14:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you should always match to quarterback with the GM and coach that they pick so they can believe in them, right?
• 14:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, they don't do it.
• 14:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: They don't seem to do that Cleveland.
• 14:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: But another change that is successful, you want the GM to pick the coach and you want the coach to talk with the GM and say, this is a guy I can coach.
• 14:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: For some reason, Cleman has his mind set, well, has him has his mind set where he this collective agreement in the room, it has not worked.
• 14:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: And if you really think about it, if we get rid of disorganization here, what does that say about Shidorah?
• 14:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know a lot of us want to see him, but if a new guy comes in, if we reshit the reset button, a new guy comes in, are they gonna believe in Shidorah?
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Are they gonna give my chance?
• 15:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, that's why I want to see Shidorah now,
• 15:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: see what they have in home and that's true then the new at least the new people in coming into the building would have some tape to go back on and say hey we feel confident enough and what we saw from limited time we should door last year that we'll roll with them and use these two first round picks to get some other key pieces for this offense but you know talking about chador and and Dylan and all that kind of stuff
• 15:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: there's obviously the arguments out there that Dylan needs more time, it's only been, you know, four starts and all this kind of stuff.
• 15:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: But have you seen anything from Dylan that makes you think there's growth to be had here or we kind of already brushing against the ceiling of what he can do?
• 15:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I had that thought two weeks in to me and I was like, there's something that could be something that he's not turning to ball over.
• 15:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: and then I realized as a podcast, I need to look a little deeper.
• 15:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I turned it to turn over where they pass is and you see that he's ranked top five.
• 15:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: The D-Vs are just not catching his D-spaces.
• 16:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you forget about those passes that D-Vs job?
• 16:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then I realized the one thing that he was so postably good as taking care of the ball being accurate, he is not doing.
• 16:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, he's not processing fast on a field, which is what we're told he's a human computer, um, and he's not been that.
• 16:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I, I said on our podcast this week, and it cost, it calls a, a theory of an argument with Chad, because he's, he's not ready to move on from Dylan, me and Mike, or R. I said, there's an, I've seen enough in four games to tell me that at best, he's going to be
• 16:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: as many games as you want because I'm convinced and I even made the jokes that it's many games you want even if you're not convinced that should or is a guy put Bailey Zappian because I'm convinced enough that Gabriel's always going to be back up he's not going to improve but I believe in should do enough to build that he's going to improve enough these next couple these next remaining of this game season.
• 17:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: that you're going to be convinced whether he's going to be a backup or a starter.
• 17:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: And he's definitely going to make plays.
• 17:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's not going to be thrown for three yard dump all pasts.
• 17:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's going to throw down field.
• 17:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Dylan, when he rolled out against the last week, he rolled out against New England and just floated that ball up there.
• 17:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's when I knew I can't do this for the rest of the year.
• 17:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was up there for 30 minutes and he just hung up there like a pun.
• 17:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I soon as he rolled out and he threw it, I looked at my wife.
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it didn't even land yet.
• 17:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she's like, what are you talking about?
• 17:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, he can't stand there.
• 17:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Still in the air.
• 17:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: I went to get a glass of milk and I came back and it's still in the air.
• 17:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, so that's when I, that was, that was, that was my ending.
• 17:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I, he threw it down field.
• 17:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: It hung in the air.
• 17:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't there fast enough.
• 17:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: It got intercepted.
• 17:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: It granted great play by the DB.
• 17:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: But still, point is the point.
• 17:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think collectively, you've seen enough, even with the data, PFS scores.
• 17:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever score you want to go to, his stats have gone down.
• 18:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: since his first game and you would think they would improve.
• 18:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: But they haven't.
• 18:07
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• 18:10
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• 18:13
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• 19:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: I went and I looked back on these stats because the whole Kevin Stephansky Dylan Gabriel thing reminds me so much of another, he just trusts me on this guy moment and it was when Hugh Jackson told us, hey, just trust me on Cody Kessler.
• 19:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, this is my guy, watch what we can do.
• 19:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I went back and I looked at this.
• 19:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, first of all, Cody Kessler was the 93rd overall pick in the third round.
• 19:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Dylan Gabriel was the 94th overall pick in the third round.
• 19:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, to him near the same exact draft capital between these two quarterbacks.
• 20:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: The first four first four stars for both guys.
• 20:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, that's what I wanted to compare.
• 20:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Cody Kessler had 865 yards passing.
• 20:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Dylan Gabriel only has 683.
• 20:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yards per game, Cody Kessler was throwing 216.3 and Dylan Gabriel, just 170.8.
• 20:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Touchdown to interceptions, four to one for Kessler, four to two for Dylan, but the overall QBR from ESPN, 47.3 for Cody Kessler and just 24.3 for Dylan Gabriel.
• 20:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Cody Kessler was so much better in his first four starts than what Dylan Gabriel is.
• 20:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's I didn't I know then that's shocking.
• 20:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to clip this and then send it to Chad and say, are you ready to move on?
• 20:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because that is that is alarming.
• 20:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Considering even Hugh Jackson was a horrible offense a guy, he was better than than Kevin.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: So that's even an argument against Kevin, which is even better for the arsenal for the Kevin haters.
• 21:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: But that is crazy.
• 21:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: The Cody can say it's a lot better than than doing.
• 21:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yep, and Cody Cess who wasn't good.
• 21:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if you guys remember.
• 21:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know those like to black out those years, but Cody Cess who was not good quarterback was not good.
• 21:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they tried to sell it though.
• 21:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: He credits a year.
• 21:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: He was like, listen, he's he's some special of this kid's sleeve and it just wasn't good.
• 21:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and that's exactly what they've done with Dylan.
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, this guy's a super computer, you know, a process in timing accuracy rhythm on time, all this stuff and it's like,
• 21:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, he's not.
• 21:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, he's not like you said he's throwing the ball to the db's over and over.
• 21:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're just Pittsburgh sure to had they could have had six interceptions.
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he just dropped.
• 21:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: They just just didn't.
• 21:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: They just not good catchers.
• 21:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Trust me.
• 21:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, Thorne Hill was one of them.
• 21:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: We know what Thorne Hill can do here.
• 21:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: But in other places because they'd had so many.
• 21:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, another play that really threw me for a loop.
• 21:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it goes back to where he can't see it with a line is that intentional grounding safety
• 22:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: like you either I don't know maybe there's a communication between him and the receiver but the receiver is open anyways like if you were to took and look down field you probably would have had them but either way that's why i was like yeah this guy is he's just not it he's just it was that was yeah that was one of them but yeah i was like he's not that man he's just
• 22:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: That was a brutal play.
• 22:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: That was brutal.
• 22:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like the show that's definitely a show that broke the camel's back.
• 22:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's when I was like, I got to say, when I go on the show, I'm just going to wait the white flag and say send in shit or for the rest of the year.
• 22:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: And just let this kid just grow into what, you know, hopefully they think they can be he can be.
• 22:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, was that Kevin's flee flicker from the end zone?
• 22:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, I was a Sean Kaiser, right with you.
• 22:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that was it, the Sean, yeah.
• 22:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I, I read a, I saw a stat that Sean Kaiser and Hogan are having better years than you under Hugh under Hugh and Kelly under Kevin.
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I should I should go look at those two as well.
• 23:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, look, expand my chart.
• 23:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because that's it's it's pretty alarming.
• 23:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: But the code of case.
• 23:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: If if if you had a better better performance outcome with the with three quarterbacks, then what Kevin's having with Dylan, that's even more of an idea.
• 23:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: It just seems like Dylan, you has to use his whole body strength.
• 23:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: to throw the ball down and fill the net.
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: That is the concerning thing for me.
• 23:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's like, if you have to use your whole body strength, that takes away from the accuracy, I would believe, and I'm not a quarterback of a rule, but I would assume that would take away from your accuracy at aspect because you just even it up there.
• 23:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's that's Gary.
• 23:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: which is is interesting because he was able to do it in college you was you know i mean you know a yard is still a yard you know whether you're in the NFL or you're in college and the deep all just doesn't seem like like you said he can't do it right now it's
• 23:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the other thing that concerns me with with Kevin with the quarterback situation is we haven't seen any quarterback in this often speed will throw the ball down field in a long time.
• 24:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: The only one who was really able to do was again, Joe Flacco in 23 because he had that, you know, de-gaff mentality, he came in here with other than that, you know, to Sean Watson struggle throw the ball down field last year.
• 24:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: All we saw was check down.
• 24:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
• 24:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: That was it, check down Charlie.
• 24:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then it was DTR was just checking the ball down.
• 24:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then James Winston came in here and tried to do the Joe Flacco, just chuck it down field.
• 24:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that worked for a minute.
• 24:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then it turned into a lot of interceptions.
• 24:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: But other than that, it's been check down, short passes, nothing downfield.
• 24:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know a lot of people are excited about Shador, and obviously like his fan base is the rabbit in your face telling you like he's going to come in here and put up five hundred first game.
• 24:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, I had to set the fan, nothing to get had a fan on our podcast this morning.
• 24:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was reading the comics.
• 24:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: He said, Shador will make, uh, Larva Dan, uh, and the kid from Kent, look like no one receiver.
• 24:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm like, come on.
• 24:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Get from Kent, not even over there.
• 24:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I was like, come on, man.
• 24:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, I let, listen, I'm, I'm interested in your door.
• 25:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: I want to see your door.
• 25:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm one of those, like, I'll believe it when I see it.
• 25:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'll, I'll, I'm the Browns fan.
• 25:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we have a quarter bag, obviously.
• 25:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: I will continue to watch every week.
• 25:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: But the sit there and say that he's going to improve a guy who's like five, eight, five, nine to me.
• 25:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's, I don't know, we'll see.
• 25:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think Shador just has that the potential to be a very good spark for the offense and at this point in the season, that's what you're looking for, that's what you're hoping for, I just
• 25:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know about you, man.
• 25:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like all the signals from clear back during the, everything since the draft has just been wood.
• 25:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, first it started off with the post selection video of Kevin and AB up in the box or whatever after they drafted Shador and they, nobody looked happy.
• 25:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, they said, oh, well, you know, that was just, there was a timing thing.
• 25:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: They didn't catch the right answer.
• 25:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was a long day.
• 26:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: They caught the right moment for everybody else after their selections, but they just happened to mess up yours.
• 26:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, got it.
• 26:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, the draft calls to Dylan was like, hey, man.
• 26:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it was like Kevin Cohen is son and welcoming them back from college and all this stuff.
• 26:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then they call Shador and their like, hey, just be ready to practice when you get here.
• 26:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 26:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, click.
• 26:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just it's been weird.
• 26:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's been weird.
• 26:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know if they're really going to give.
• 26:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: should door the opportunity that the fans are hoping for just to see what like you said, just see what we have.
• 26:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: See what he can possibly do.
• 26:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: And if you showed some of those signs, it's not going to be anywhere close to perfect, especially with this offense, the person now, the play calling, all that kind of stuff.
• 26:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: But if we could just see some signs, some throws that are like, whoa, that's a throw that, you know, that's an NFL throw.
• 26:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: That would really give us a lot going for, I just don't know if we're going to get that opportunity.
• 26:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: In it, and I, I,
• 26:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: That would suck, man.
• 26:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: If we had to watch telling for another four or five games before they placed the door, it's going to be, and then you go into the co-questions like the conspiracy right now going, are they tanking?
• 27:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, are they going to season knowing that they're just going to wash it clean?
• 27:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: So they gave you a higher pick for their actual guy that they won this year.
• 27:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then you're as a fan, you're like, my man, you're wasting, and then your miles gear, you even more mag, because you out there throw a whole, you're putting together poor performances at the expense of his legacy is just annoying.
• 27:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and you know, I'm Blake is very like, I don't talk to me about any conspiracy stuff for whatever.
• 27:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, well, dude, you got to know that you got to some of this stuff has a little validity too.
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because you know, last year they did the same thing.
• 27:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: They said, you know, oh, we're going to bench James and give, you know, let DTR start.
• 27:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: He gives us a better opportunity to win.
• 27:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, he doesn't.
• 27:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: We just want to see what we have in him.
• 27:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, you don't.
• 27:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: We already know what you have in DTR.
• 27:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: We don't need to see it.
• 27:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: He was the guaranteed pathway to losses.
• 27:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what helped us get the number two overall pit.
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was evident.
• 27:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, there's always pre-season games.
• 28:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, his pre-season games.
• 28:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: And like everyone's pre-season games good.
• 28:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's so they did a play against some ones.
• 28:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then these bigger fastest stronger men are.
• 28:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then, at the even at that Ravens game, I'm like, yeah, I do.
• 28:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: So he, it was in time to prepare.
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: I did this dude.
• 28:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like you, you have quarterback say don't have time for prayer and they look at at least capable.
• 28:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like DTI didn't need to look capable.
• 28:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I agree.
• 28:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like I think they had that plan to hold.
• 28:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Take a break of man there was like, yeah, it's, we're done.
• 28:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think so too.
• 28:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: And whether or not I don't know who's plan it was because I just remember like every press conference last year Kevin just looked like a completely checked out defeated guy.
• 28:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then that honestly, that's where I kind of started with my like, I don't know if I'm really so sure about Kevin anymore.
• 28:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Even just accepting losing like, okay, they just want me to play this guy so we can lose, like, I have to do it kind of mentality.
• 28:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want that.
• 28:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want that as my coach.
• 28:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want that in my organization.
• 28:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: I hate losing so much.
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't care what draft pick slot you end up getting.
• 28:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm with you.
• 28:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: We have a show like when.
• 29:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't, well, we're not a tanking podcast.
• 29:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't want to talk about taking it, or even the hint or conspiracy theory of it.
• 29:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: We hate talking about it.
• 29:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I agree at some point this year, you got to bring it up like, if they're continuing to play Dylan, spread, if they lose to the jets, and then he comes in and says, yes, hey, Dylan's still the guy.
• 29:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Then you got to start questioning yourself, like, what am I doing here as a fan?
• 29:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: That I'm going to continue to watch Dylan go and come home against Baltimore and try to put up numbers to beat him.
• 29:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Lamar Jackson's back.
• 29:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: up like 30 points.
• 29:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: You think you're going to beat that even with this defense being as good as it is at home different from the world, but better at home is still.
• 29:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: you're like, I don't know man, you can't, I don't see any wins outside of New York.
• 29:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, a lot of people are saying Vegas, but they don't play well on the West Coast.
• 29:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: It didn't matter who's your head coach, whatever regime.
• 29:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: They have a losing record out there specifically, even gets Oakland or Vegas.
• 29:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, we went last year thinking, oh, we're going to win and we end up getting smoke.
• 29:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I want to put that as a win here.
• 30:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's a good point.
• 30:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: I said this on the show last week.
• 30:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it would be such a browns situation to go out to Vegas and have them start.
• 30:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Can you pick it up?
• 30:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they can you pick and throw some 353 touchdowns.
• 30:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 30:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 30:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll have to do it.
• 30:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know what you can do it.
• 30:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I wouldn't have trained it.
• 30:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was saying keep Kenny.
• 30:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think he would have gave you a lot longer than Flacco did to get these guys ready, but and we'll see if he does.
• 30:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if he will, but yeah, it would be funny.
• 30:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: It would be funny.
• 30:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's when as a fan base you're like, all right, man, we got to do.
• 30:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: We got to ride in Barrier or something.
• 30:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: No kidding.
• 30:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, and I guess we can just kind of look ahead too here at the remainder of the season and what we expect at I'm with you.
• 30:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if I can actually sit on like our preview show that we do every Thursday and tell everybody that I'm picking the browns to win in New York.
• 30:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that hurt like that sucks because I look at the jets.
• 30:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: They just got their first win in the season.
• 30:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're a mess.
• 30:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they have no idea who they want to play quarterback and all this stuff.
• 31:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I look at the matchup and I think there's a very real possibility we don't win this game.
• 31:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: I agree with you.
• 31:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Our defense doesn't travel on the road, you know, we've had good success against Justin Fields in the past, but he hasn't thrown an interception yet this season.
• 31:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: And all it takes is, what, 14, 17 points and we're probably screwed.
• 31:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we can't stop the run right now, so if Bree's all just does a couple things, they got Isaiah Davis who looks like a nice player.
• 31:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it doesn't matter how bad the opposing defense is, our offense is this, it doesn't matter if we're planning against a good defense or the dolphins.
• 31:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: We still can't move the ball.
• 31:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Look, it's Cincinnati.
• 31:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: We couldn't move the ball against Cincinnati.
• 31:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, so you think you moved the ball against the judge who actually had a whole season.
• 31:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, I mean, halfway through the season, they have some chemistry being built, I agree with you.
• 31:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: And when I wasn't surprised when the judge came out as two to an half point favorites, I'm like, I'm not a peeper, like, what, I'm like, I'm a fend.
• 31:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, you shouldn't be this often sucks.
• 32:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: It can't even score.
• 32:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: You think you think you can go on the road where your defense isn't as good.
• 32:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: And a lot of people are like the defense a good one.
• 32:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, guys, look at look at do yourself a favor.
• 32:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Look a little deeper.
• 32:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: The defense on the road isn't as good.
• 32:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: They put up teams put up more points, yards, offense, throwing and passing than on the road.
• 32:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're better home defense than a road.
• 32:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: So that's even Justin Fields or Tyrod Taylor.
• 32:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't matter.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: I see them.
• 32:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, the defense will have to win you a game on the road.
• 32:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: And they're going to have to do it.
• 32:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: They can't just create turnovers.
• 32:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like the defense actually has to take the ball.
• 32:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, we go put it in the freaking end zone because like last week, we picked off Drake May and what did we get out of it?
• 32:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: A missed field goal, right?
• 32:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't get anything.
• 32:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't get a point.
• 32:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like you can't count on the offense for anything.
• 32:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, even, I don't know if you know is about why uh, brags is having a good season over here.
• 32:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yorkie, they keep not going to be motivated to play against the team that trade at them.
• 33:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he's going to come in, it's here on fire, but I agree.
• 33:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know.
• 33:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: The jet's game scares me if they lose that game, they got Ravens, then Vegas, and then Chicago at home.
• 33:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's the tougher four games and what it was when you first looked at it.
• 33:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Very true.
• 33:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like you were talking about the Ravens coming up after that.
• 33:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: I just watch the Thursday night game.
• 33:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And again, I know it was against Miami, but we are offence was able to generate, what was the 17 points against Miami.
• 33:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know it was raining and all that kind of stuff or whatever, but we couldn't pass the ball for crap.
• 33:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: They really, I know their defense isn't great, but are we really gonna hang with them?
• 33:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Whether it's at home or not?
• 33:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Actually, the defense is gonna just say, forget.
• 33:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: You're gonna be like, well, we're not putting our life on the line, we're one in 10.
• 33:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we're two in 10.
• 34:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: So you're gonna be like, the defense can't go out there.
• 34:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like you say, unless they physically get the ball and run it into the end zone,
• 34:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're doing as much as they can already.
• 34:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: You think they're going to do that for 17 games where they're just putting it all on the field.
• 34:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's unrealistic to even expect.
• 34:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's what talks about the last two seasons, really.
• 34:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, our defense has been pretty good that you can win some games and leave it some playoff games.
• 34:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like this defense is going up to even maybe, just maybe you get lucky to ball row your way, and hit the AFC championship game,
• 34:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: can't even score 14 points right now.
• 34:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: It just sucks.
• 34:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's exactly how it was last year.
• 34:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I feel like a lot of games last year if you go back and you look at even just the box score and the scoring breakdown.
• 34:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Half time games were not out of reach yet.
• 34:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the the game Sunday was only was a nine to seven.
• 34:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: nine seven at halftime and it's like, hey, we're hanging in there, you know, we could, and it now we can't we we scored on the first dragon or not scoring again, it was nine to seven ended up 32 to 13.
• 35:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Faber said he's like outside of their, uh, gimmick plays, we were okay, mainly, meaning outside of the first drive, we kind of have to say what they were going to do.
• 35:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because that's Kevin's going to first drive after that is predictable.
• 35:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and Jake talks all the time about how there's no there's no play set up like haven't doesn't run anything.
• 35:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: With the with the idea of like I'm trying to set something up later in the game off of this look, you know, he talked about specifically the jet sweep to Malachi Coral.
• 35:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: That was that was off twice 31 yard run.
• 35:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and we never came back to it.
• 35:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: We never came back to do it like give another just sweep or run a fake or play action or anything off of that.
• 35:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was okay.
• 35:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: We ran it and now we're just like what are we even doing?
• 35:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do we have a point?
• 35:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you need that with a quarterback who's such has so much limitation like Dylan Gabriel does and you have to kind of fake the defense and.
• 36:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just frustrating.
• 36:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: I agree and I felt like Kevin did that his first year or two where he would this play work Let's get something off this and it and it worked but for some reason He's just falling into this I guess the best way you put it is stubborn.
• 36:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, where I'm just gonna do it my way and it's just gonna be this horrible way
• 36:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I feel like a lot of times coaches will call plays, whether they're successful or not, they just want to call the play to get the look out there, you know, whether it gets a big big gainer or doesn't, we just want to make sure the defense sees this look because we're going to come back to a later and try to run this player that play off of that.
• 36:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's why he had to fight some as an offensive guy like Chad Chad on our show saying, well, he's not really an offensive guy.
• 36:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, he was hired as an offensive coordinator for the Minnesota Vikings because they believed that his offense would work.
• 36:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: The first year, his offense worked after that.
• 36:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: It started to go down low, but he's an offensive guy will coaches do multiple things.
• 37:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: His specific calling is offense.
• 37:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you're offense sucks, you have to blame him.
• 37:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: It can be decorating or you got rid of four of them at some point you had to put it on yourself.
• 37:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't understand that argument of he's not an offensive guy.
• 37:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: He was an offensive coordinator.
• 37:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: He was hired as an offensive head coach.
• 37:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's running his offensive system.
• 37:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: He calls the offense.
• 37:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: He is the offensive.
• 37:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's he's the mastermind behind whether it works or doesn't.
• 37:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's not working.
• 37:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: It goes back to him.
• 37:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, Chad.
• 37:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's not working.
• 37:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, sorry, Blake.
• 37:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I know that seriously, Blake Chad, you guys, I mean, people would love it.
• 37:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure people would, you know, from your podcast and ours, like they would love to hear those too.
• 37:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll talk to you.
• 37:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll talk to you.
• 37:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: I see if we can get you guys together again.
• 37:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can do anti Kevin pod and then a pro Kevin pod and see what one does better.
• 37:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, see what your see what the reactions are like on them.
• 37:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Good Lord.
• 37:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
• 37:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, so I guess maybe we'll try to spin a little positivity here.
• 38:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, what are some things from this season that you've seen that you're like, OK, obviously things aren't going very well at all, but we've got some bright spots.
• 38:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I like John Kinsey's obviously good.
• 38:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: He hasn't played well last couple of games partially due to offensive line, but I like him.
• 38:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: I like his upside.
• 38:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: I like I like Mason Graham and I know the studies are coming out.
• 38:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: I follow Jake Burns closely and he put our beautiful article about Mason Graham and what he's worried about.
• 38:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: I totally recommend reading it.
• 38:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: I understand his weaknesses.
• 38:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm hoping that he blossoms into he grows and develops into a good defense attack.
• 38:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like like him, I like the young pieces, even I defense.
• 38:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: He got a lot of unrestricted free agents this past year that I feel like if they can develop them, that's going to help us as far as talent grows.
• 38:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because then you don't have to worry about getting that guy in the draft.
• 38:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I'll tell you that our offense is what I, I look at the office.
• 39:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, I'll tell you the junkins.
• 39:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I thought Sam, Sam soon will have a bigger role right now.
• 39:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm kind of confused on what's going on there.
• 39:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't understand, he doesn't blackwell on third down, but I thought maybe first a second down maybe have him and cue back there together, kind of confused to defense a little bit.
• 39:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, but that doesn't happen outside of that that just junk ins right now and I'm very excited about those young pieces on defense and obviously the draft picks that we're going to have to hopefully accumulate and draft from young studs.
• 39:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: hopefully.
• 39:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hopefully.
• 39:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, with Samson, you know, with our lack of wide receiver depth and even just overall ability, I don't know why they don't use because all we heard during training camp was, you know, he's been working with the receivers.
• 39:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's going to be running out of the slot and stuff.
• 39:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, do it.
• 39:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Get him out there so that he can operate, you know, because we already saw we won.
• 39:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: You get the ball in his hands with a little bit of space.
• 39:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's going to do something with it.
• 39:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: I, I feel that everything they
• 39:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: everything.
• 40:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm dealing to the quarterback competition to should door.
• 40:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like everything is just, it was just a lie.
• 40:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like it was a huge mess, but they sold us as big like, no, yeah, we're doing great.
• 40:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, everything's fine.
• 40:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Meanwhile, the background's everything's set on fire.
• 40:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because you, like, how can you tell me that he's working with the receivers?
• 40:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you have not even attempted, at least from what I've seen.
• 40:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: being at least in the slot to kind of, again, it gives you a different look that the defense are out to start to prepare for each week.
• 40:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Samson in the slot, you call it a couple passes.
• 40:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: We have prepared for that, but they haven't.
• 40:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's confusing.
• 40:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, you could start in there.
• 40:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can motion into the backfield and have him leak out the opposite way.
• 40:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I don't know.
• 40:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Again, I'm not a football coach, but I'm just a fan.
• 40:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I sit here and I think, well, there's stuff you can do.
• 40:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can get creative with the pieces.
• 40:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: You have, I know the argument is always, well, they don't have any personnel.
• 40:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: The offensive line sucks.
• 40:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're old.
• 40:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: They don't have any receivers.
• 41:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: So what's Kevin supposed to do?
• 41:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
• 41:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Try something.
• 41:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Get creative.
• 41:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't have a really good offensive line.
• 41:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: What did they normally do?
• 41:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: Line up an extra person.
• 41:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they seem to find a way to give it to DKMECAP every game.
• 41:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, now we're granted, we don't have a DKMECAP on our team, because a lot of people still think Jerry Judy's a receiver one, which we obviously is not.
• 41:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I think getting creative is something Kevin is struggling with.
• 41:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's what makes offensive guys who are head coaches great.
• 41:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Where, where have they get these guys?
• 41:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: They didn't have high draft picks.
• 41:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: They were different.
• 41:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: They said, after those draft picks a couple of years ago.
• 41:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they still were drafting studs, Puka, and all these other guys who are making impacts on their place.
• 41:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then they have a coach who's developing the right way.
• 41:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: And if you guys could get your heads out of Cleveland and see how these offensive guys, offensive guys are actually helping their teams win.
• 42:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Then you realize, well, maybe we're selling a sub-short.
• 42:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're Kevin.
• 42:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: big time.
• 42:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I feel like our offense wouldn't.
• 42:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: It wouldn't have a whole lot to speak of at all.
• 42:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Outside of, you know, when the run game is working with Judkins and when he's making a guy miss, there would be hardly any first downs or anything to speak of.
• 42:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: If it weren't for Harold
• 42:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: in junior.
• 42:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I'm by him.
• 42:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was talking to my dad about this the other day.
• 42:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: I said, if it's third and eight, all you have to do is throw a three yard past a Harold fan and he will get you five freaking yards plus some because that dude does not ever go down before the step.
• 42:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: He surprises me.
• 42:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's has surprised me this year.
• 42:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: How he is ability to break tackles.
• 42:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: even junk is anything junk is was I think is yards at their hit contact is pretty I think it's top five right now I could be wrong last time I looked at it was stuff like even even if I listen the offense has been so bad I totally forgot we had fan it that's how bad the offense was I'm actually encouraged to fan it to to the point where I thought maybe I'm thinking these joke who trade rumors are true because I feel like you can't move on from him
• 43:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: But we'll see what happens with that.
• 43:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I agree.
• 43:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Fannance, breaking tackle ability is crazy.
• 43:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: And Chad pointed us on our podcast of how he runs like a duck.
• 43:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it kind of throws people off a little bit, too.
• 43:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, he's been surprised, too.
• 43:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know that was one of the people who joked about that during the pre-draft process and stuff the way he runs, but he's powerful, you know, for his, he's a smaller, he's a smaller, tight end for the position in the NFL, but he plays like he's six, five, two, 50, you know, and it sucks, the legs never sucks, because he's blocking, he has to block more, considering what's going on with the offensive one.
• 43:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: that you can't really put them out as what he can do.
• 43:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like he's blocking a little too much.
• 43:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I understand it well, I think that if he is out.
• 43:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think that's my one concern if they do trade in joku, because I know they use in joku for blocking a lot, in which which allows Harold Fanon to go do what he does.
• 44:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then also that they did, you know, sign to new tight ends here in the last week.
• 44:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Blocking, blocking guys, and so.
• 44:14
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• 45:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: it is interesting.
• 45:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that we'll talk about maybe some trades here in a second, but I just wanted to go back to what you said about feeling like they fed us of a load of crap a bunch of lies over the summer and everything they told us really turned out to not be true.
• 45:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I said earlier about we heard from training camp beat reporters every day say, Dylan Gabriel.
• 45:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: doesn't look like he's that guy.
• 45:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: But then we on the flip side, we heard him say, Shador Sanders is looking good.
• 45:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like he looks nice, he's making some nice throws.
• 45:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: He looks better than Dylan.
• 45:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: So can we put any faith into those reports and thinking that if Shador gets his opportunity to come out on the field?
• 46:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Again, not expecting it to look phenomenal with the pieces around him and the coaching and all that stuff.
• 46:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: but can he overcome those things to show us?
• 46:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, you guys, I can be the future here.
• 46:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think he can.
• 46:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm a little worried to last the game.
• 46:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: The last game runs in my mind.
• 46:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: I can't say if I'm running back.
• 46:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because he had that problem.
• 46:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: The only reason why he's a concern is he had that problem.
• 46:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Colorado where he's for me back.
• 46:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think if he can fix that, if he can just learn to either take a sack there as opposed to taking the sack back there or throw in the ball away.
• 46:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think he can get better.
• 46:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: He will be better.
• 46:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I just I think I just don't think she door is as bad as did.
• 46:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: I just you just can't be as bad as them.
• 46:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's why I was trying to out chat this passage.
• 46:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's no way.
• 46:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: that should door will come out here, even if he doesn't come up to what people expect.
• 46:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like this expectation is going to throw 500 yards.
• 47:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: He will be at least what we will consider a backup quarterback.
• 47:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Dylan is not even giving me that five right now.
• 47:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: where he's coming out like, oh, there's some complaints, there's some plays there, there's a, don't let's not give this to that.
• 47:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Should door, I think, who we've seen in the, and off see on, in the play, even training camp or during the pre-season, those throws that he would just layer and he'd lead guys open.
• 47:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Dylan's not doing that.
• 47:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: And maybe because he can't see over line.
• 47:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: But he's just not getting it to where the receivers can either lead to him or or even see them, which is weird, but yeah, I think should door can be better and should be better.
• 47:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: I just think he should.
• 47:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's just better athlete overall.
• 47:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, I don't disagree at all with any of that.
• 47:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think.
• 47:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, people have a right to be hopeful and optimistic about it.
• 47:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: I just keep telling everybody to temper your expectations as far as when or how soon it's going to happen.
• 47:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because I just get the vibe that Kevin's kind of got the mentality of over my dead body.
• 48:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm not benching Dylan.
• 48:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not putting an inch of door.
• 48:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
• 48:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that's just me feeding into some of the conspiracy talk that I see online and read from people.
• 48:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: But just the actions of the team and the way they've handled the whole situation.
• 48:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just been I just feel like it's been weird.
• 48:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: I can't tell anybody they're stupid for thinking those things, you know, I feel like it's all valid.
• 48:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it goes back to what I want to conspiracy theory is like Dylan's Kevin's guy should door is Barry's guy.
• 48:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: So if you ask your west to what Barry and he's good, he's kind of going to give you less power, new organization saying, Well, Barry picked a quarterback and you picked this quarterback and this quarterback's better than this and we hired you.
• 48:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: evaluate quarterbacks and you we gave you a whole year to pick a quarterback and this is the guy you picked out of all these all the chador even because you pass up on them.
• 48:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I kind of put that into play too.
• 48:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you find it interesting and all like I do that the week that Kevin Spansky made Dylan Gabriel the starter and Joe Flacco the backup instead of Shador the very next Monday or whatever it was, Joe Flacco was gone.
• 49:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, if I'm not interested, it's interesting and telling at the same time because if you know how NFL works and how GM's work.
• 49:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: We've seen it here.
• 49:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Then we see here before running back, hide was here.
• 49:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then Carlos and he had a job.
• 49:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the guy, you refuse to play child.
• 49:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: And there's all right, well, trade hide.
• 49:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now you got to play child, which end up being better for the organization.
• 49:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Either way, yeah.
• 49:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: So there's proof there.
• 49:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know people's like, it's a conspiracy.
• 49:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: But if you go and just see trends over decades of the NFL between GM and coaching debates within inter circle, that's how GMs get their guys in.
• 49:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're right, and we have, like you said, we've got the samples that have happened right here in our own organization recently, pretty recently, so yeah, I keep thinking back to that and how.
• 50:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we'll see how this all plays out, but do you think real quick before we kind of wrap up here?
• 50:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Is there are there any moves that you expect to happen, Browns either trade for a position or a specific player or trade away, anybody, or is there something that you think could happen that maybe people aren't talking about?
• 50:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, I think this team, unless they get a young guy that they can kind of like Campbell, they can control the contract, he's young and there's, if it's the system, which ends up being so far ends up being a really good move for them right now in defense.
• 50:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: So when that they control, I don't, I don't see them, I don't see them getting a guy like eight people, people are in my comments saying, she go trade out the AJ Brown, he's a headache and feel like it's like,
• 50:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, we're not doing that.
• 50:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's old, man.
• 50:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: We have age limits here.
• 50:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, I get an analytical at our analytics team show, analyzed team shows that anyone over 30's worthless.
• 50:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: So if anyone's creeping up to that age, just not even put on my heart team, because they're gonna look for someone younger, someone that they can invest in and develop themselves, unfortunately.
• 51:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't think they're gonna make any big moves.
• 51:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Outside it may be trading the joke who I would say, that's big move as far as a fan base is a fan favorite.
• 51:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, AJ Brown's a funny one because you think he's unhappinessed with jail and hurts and Philadelphia.
• 51:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think he's going to do with Dillon Gabriel?
• 51:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 51:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Come on.
• 51:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: This face.
• 51:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, yeah.
• 51:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Come on, man.
• 51:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's, that's even.
• 51:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: His contracts.
• 51:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Huge too.
• 51:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: He just signed an extension before.
• 51:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's another thing.
• 51:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: You've got to move around that contract.
• 51:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's what the whole mile's trade is, this whole week that that's getting, like, because people are like, they're going to make them not going to trade.
• 51:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, they can.
• 51:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: not to mean at least two more years and that's more tradable than what it is.
• 51:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, if you read Jack Duffin from the OBR, theoretically, could they trade miles Garrett financially?
• 51:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it would, it would strap us a little bit next year as far as who we could sign in the offices and all that kind of stuff.
• 52:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: but they could.
• 52:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Are they going to, I would be shocked.
• 52:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he's the only thing, really, reason why you're kind of getting points at this point.
• 52:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, stopping defense is creating sacks.
• 52:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he's making other players better.
• 52:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's made, made, uh, right better.
• 52:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's making it the whole offense, uh, defense of line better.
• 52:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean,
• 52:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: you can't you can trade your face at a franchise.
• 52:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's it.
• 52:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Especially after signing with big contract, that would just be silly.
• 52:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: But then again, it's the main organization.
• 52:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: So this is a watch what I say because it kind of put pie in my face.
• 52:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, oh no kidding, but yeah, we'll see trade deadline here coming up in a couple of days.
• 52:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, obviously, if moves get made, you guys will cover it, we'll cover it and joku to me seems like the most likely one if something happens, if news drops it's going to be him.
• 52:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: I could see a contending team, especially, I keep seeing people say, well, he should go the bucks and play with Baker.
• 53:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: actually makes kind of sense.
• 53:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they lost Mike Evans, Chris Godwin's constantly banged up, you know, a book has been hurt for them.
• 53:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: To have a guy like in Joku would help their offense quite a bit.
• 53:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's familiarity there with Baker Mayfield, all that kind of stuff, I think.
• 53:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: That actually does make some sense.
• 53:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you think that we'll eventually play Watson again before next year?
• 53:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because after next year, he's not available.
• 53:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously.
• 53:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: You could get rid of them.
• 53:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 53:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's hard for me to envision them ever playing him again, especially when every time Jimmy has them gets an opportunity anymore.
• 53:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: He seems like he's calling him a failed trade.
• 53:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: I agree with that.
• 53:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like he just did it last week again, called him a failed trade.
• 53:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, well, anybody saying that they're going to start him after the buy week or whatever, you know, forget it.
• 53:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: And he's doing it to kind of advocate for Kevin.
• 53:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's like, well, we got to get Kevin more time because we screwed up here.
• 53:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: So that's another thing because I think Watson made not like Kevin as much as we as soon.
• 53:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's evident, but I think I think I do too.
• 54:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, wasn't there.
• 54:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Was it was a Watson or somebody else was like, both of them, both of them, like both of them?
• 54:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's that's what it was.
• 54:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was a video was a Chad,
• 54:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: those sites but yeah gosh what yeah it was saying that Watson did is Watson that battered at Kevin ruin Watson.
• 54:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what it was.
• 54:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Lots of light.
• 54:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: What they've ever did.
• 54:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: He didn't like it.
• 54:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Added it to his favorites for those who are not social media savvy.
• 54:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: That is even worse than liking it because if you put it in your folder you're going back to that every day as motivation.
• 54:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that that I forgot about that.
• 54:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's interesting because you know, and then he posted that video a second video saying hey, look, he favored it.
• 54:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: So like it's out there that That's the only thing that pauses me because Chad called me out on this
• 55:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: You say, well, you're worried about his immaturity.
• 55:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, yeah, I'm so worried about his immaturity that I still want him out in the field because Dylan sucks that bad.
• 55:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think he can grow into a man.
• 55:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: He can mature into a man.
• 55:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can't help doing it.
• 55:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's just sucks.
• 55:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's no growing there.
• 55:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: like we made the argument about Baker, and then we traded them away and look at them.
• 55:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's freaking leading the bucks to play off around the last two, three years.
• 55:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I would, I wouldn't no longer look at in maturity as a red flag is more as ability.
• 55:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: I made that mistake with Baker.
• 55:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's, yeah, let's look at what they do on the field and it's just, I mean, how many NFL teams have guys on their roster that they're probably like, gosh, I kind of wish we didn't have this guy in the building because he's a pain in the ass.
• 55:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: But he's awesome on the field.
• 55:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we're good to go.
• 55:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, they just, they just deal with it.
• 55:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the thing with like, should or Sanders, and I mean, his fan base will be the first one.
• 55:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, he's a, he's a, he's a celebrity.
• 56:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, whether or not he's performing or playing on the football field at the moment, I mean, he's still a very well known popular, highly followed individual, you know, he is a celebrity.
• 56:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: So there is a different surrounding a different aura that comes with those type of players, versus a guy like Dylan Gabriel, who's not, you know, I agree.
• 56:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: and you guys drafted them.
• 56:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, if you didn't like it, you shouldn't have freaking drafted them.
• 56:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's good.
• 56:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Did they, did Kevin really think that Dylan was going to be that good, that he was going to keep this silence of should door down?
• 56:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's the confusing part.
• 56:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because it was loud as soon as they drafted them and they thought, well, we can keep this quiet out.
• 56:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, as soon as it's soon as he would have thrown a pick, I mean, it would have been people who have been screaming, especially the Shidorah fans.
• 56:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: But now Browns fans aren't right on it.
• 56:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I mean, they're going to, man, I hope Dylan doesn't play for, played that Baltimore game at home because if I'm telling you, Haslam, if you
• 57:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: You need to move on from doing.
• 57:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because it's not going to be a fair home coming for you.
• 57:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: If for this team, if they try to deal it out there.
• 57:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, that could, no, that's day and we'll get ugly, fast, real fast.
• 57:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I feel like we, you know, obviously a little bit more negative than positive, but that's where you are at a, you know, two and six season at the by week with this team, especially for were we two and six last year after eight games, I can't remember if we had one, two games before that if we were one and seven, neither way, last year was a black hole for me, yeah, I do a podcast, I can't remember, but yeah, they were just as bad, which is concerning considering the negative press that we've done this whole podcast.
• 57:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: about one person.
• 57:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because we didn't get our second win and was it the Steelers game at home on that Thursday night was that sex win with James.
• 58:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, that was the third one.
• 58:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.
• 58:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: The second one was Baltimore with James.
• 58:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because the first one, we just came by.
• 58:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, with the receivers.
• 58:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, see and yeah, that was the second one.
• 58:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was a very emotional game.
• 58:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Good game, though.
• 58:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 58:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Last year this year, I really don't want to do a third year in a row next year.
• 58:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'd like to, I'd like to move on, make some changes and get some new hope.
• 58:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 58:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, positive note that you have two picks in the first round.
• 58:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: You get better at if you want to leave a little positive.
• 58:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Before we, before we end this podcast, do you trust AB in this front office to with those picks?
• 58:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me ask you is one was one promising because I hate calling this, you know, 2025 draft a home run has been eight games.
• 58:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: We don't freaking know yet.
• 58:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: We see we see good things.
• 58:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: We don't know.
• 58:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: is one promising, we'll call it a promising draft class out of six, enough to give you confidence.
• 59:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I can't lie to myself and say yeah, and be positive.
• 59:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because I feel like I've been negative to social.
• 59:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Chad's going to kill me, but I can't.
• 59:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: One out of six isn't good.
• 59:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's promising.
• 59:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, OK, but does it make me dizzy?
• 59:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 59:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Give me the ability to have the potential to pick my next franchise quarterback.
• 59:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: If that's what they want to go, I can't say that right now.
• 59:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: I just can't.
• 59:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: My, my thing with last year's draft, and you know, I've, I've been listening to Jake Burns, you know, with his Mason Graham stuff.
• 59:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I started breaking that, told everybody I started breaking down the all 22 from the Patriots game last week, made it through the first half, makes Graham to do anything, like he didn't do anything.
• 59:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, and that first half, it was, it was disappointing watch.
• 59:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I may be the second half once I get to that, it'll be a different story, and I'll talk about it.
• 59:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: But,
• 59:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: We so desperately needed offense in the worst way on our show.
• 59:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: We talked the entire offseason, like, please, God, no, just use all draft picks on offensive players, like just forget the defense, you know, kind of being facetious, but at the same time, not because we really didn't need offense.
• 1:00:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And instead of doing anything to help the offensive line or the receivers or any of those premium positions, Andrew Barry went defensive tackle top five.
• 1:00:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, if you're going to go defense top five, it needs to be like a absolute elite pass rusher or corner back probably, probably not defensive tackle because you can find very good defensive tackles and even elite ones later on, like those guys are in the draft.
• 1:00:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we're kind of seeing that with some other teams of feels like.
• 1:00:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, man, I just, it worries me with Andrew Barry and their ability to evaluate offense.
• 1:00:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: It really does.
• 1:00:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:00:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it can kind of make sense why they went maybe defense the first round because they can.
• 1:00:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: How do you wait?
• 1:00:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Probably.
• 1:00:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, I did, like, I, I would say that I was, I'm a Mason Graham fan.
• 1:00:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I was pretty ecstatic when they drafted them.
• 1:00:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll that play out.
• 1:00:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then if I have to submit saying maybe I, my fandom is getting ahead of me right now.
• 1:01:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, but I agree.
• 1:01:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: I thought maybe the second pick.
• 1:01:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now Carson's resting your obviously is probably better than right now than but he's in Graham is on paper, but I thought maybe they'll go off and stare, but um, I'm glad they didn't because obviously, uh, Carson's tearing it up, but yeah, he, it's just weird how that whole draft is went because you drafted two running backs, two quarterbacks.
• 1:01:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: So that hindsight, you like, oh, that's pretty smart because Samson, I thought Samson was good value there, but you're not even using them properly.
• 1:01:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: which is confusing.
• 1:01:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then you draft two quarterbacks.
• 1:01:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now you have this quarterback drama.
• 1:01:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: So add that to the to the mix of why I don't think I can trust AB right now with it next year's era.
• 1:01:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:01:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's all part of the reason why I just hesitate to say, oh, that was a great home run draft class.
• 1:01:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because like you said, you drafted two quarterbacks and neither one of them.
• 1:01:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: hold our hope for Shador, but I mean, there's a good chance that neither one of them are going to be your guy, you know, you're using late round picks on quarterbacks.
• 1:01:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: I probably won't even be here, or there'll just be backups that's a very least, you know, and then you, a second running back, which we needed, but you don't use them, or you don't know how to use them, which would be a little bit more of what I think is you don't know how to use them.
• 1:02:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Harold Fanon looks great.
• 1:02:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Swesinger, low-scrape, Quinshawn looks like he can be running back to the future.
• 1:02:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Mason Graham is promising.
• 1:02:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: I all let it play out because it is a difficult position to transition to.
• 1:02:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I will always look at Mason Graham with standard of U.R.
• 1:02:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: top five pick.
• 1:02:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you better be playing like one had some point within the first two years.
• 1:02:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Dally point.
• 1:02:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you know, like, for at the end of the next year and we're going,
• 1:02:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but they know look at the overall pick is like, well, you got that picks from the Jaguars and they got this player and he's hopefully turned it up.
• 1:02:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's how people, that's how people land.
• 1:02:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Expin it and to positive.
• 1:02:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll spin it and to positive over all.
• 1:03:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that I think that trade was good.
• 1:03:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I do think if we want to end on a positive, I mean, I think Andrew Barry has whoever that GM's name is down in Jacksonville, first year guy.
• 1:03:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's got his number.
• 1:03:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's got a number.
• 1:03:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: You went, Dylan Gabriel, give us a first round.
• 1:03:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
• 1:03:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Awesome.
• 1:03:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, here take take Greg News and we'll take Tyson Campbell, which, like you said for the first couple games, it looks like a pretty darn good does it does What maybe you can keep a B for trades and have someone else drown Maybe the thing I here's the last thing I'll say by a B A B's very good with the cap and he does move the cat well
• 1:03:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: So what gives me pause is are they going to continue to keep a mine staff until this, you figure out this Watson deal.
• 1:03:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: And once he's off the books, there's area be you're done.
• 1:03:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because you kicked the ball, you're smart out to get the ball down line.
• 1:03:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to get somebody else in here.
• 1:03:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:03:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's say you're good.
• 1:03:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: So when I think about, you're just, you're done.
• 1:03:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of it goes to Paul Diedesta and their process for evaluating talent.
• 1:04:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've talked a lot on here about the money ball strategies that he created and developed in baseball and how it used heavy analytical process over traditional scouting methods.
• 1:04:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it just makes me feel like we're doing that same shit here because
• 1:04:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: you can't how can you argue that we're not I mean we're using analytics to dictate which players we want to draft and stuff a lot of times over just looking at the film because there's guys just guys you can watch the tape and say oh that guy's a football player you know just just go draft him and they're like no we're going to take Anthony Schwarzenstead
• 1:04:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, cool.
• 1:04:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Good.
• 1:04:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, one game.
• 1:04:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he had his one game and then he had his his Baker career ender in Cleveland.
• 1:04:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, man.
• 1:04:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
• 1:04:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I hope everybody enjoyed the show.
• 1:04:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Go check out angel in the beard or brown show.
• 1:04:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Where you guys are on what you two were on where you guys every stream anything that streams I feel like around I think Mike puts on just about it.
• 1:05:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: But the mainly definitely the four major ones 730 on Tuesdays 10 a.m. on Saturdays and You guys have motivated me to put out random stuff throughout the week.
• 1:05:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I'll probably just drop random stuff throughout the week.
• 1:05:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: So just, yeah, there you go.
• 1:05:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you guys are doing a really great job with your content.
• 1:05:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: You guys are on fire.
• 1:05:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: So go get them a follow, check them out.
• 1:05:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: These guys are awesome.
• 1:05:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're fans like were fans just given you the perspective that honestly, I feel like sometimes the media tries to get a little too analytical on their own right and talk about, hey, the coaching staff, this is what they're thinking is bull crab.
• 1:05:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're gonna tell you what it looks like and how we see it because more times than not, that's the reality.
• 1:05:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: All right, well everybody enjoy your Sunday and enjoy the buy week.
• 1:05:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll get ready for the hopefully we can beat the jet next weekend And all that kind of stuff.
• 1:06:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll be talking about it all week.
• 1:06:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: You guys will preview it.
• 1:06:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll preview it.
• 1:06:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we'll we'll get the breakdown coming.
• 1:06:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: So appreciate everybody tuning in and we'll see you guys next week
• 1:06:12
  [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for listening to another episode of The Dogs Podcast.
• 1:06:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: Make sure you subscribe on YouTube and follow us on Twitter at The Dogs Podcast.
• 1:06:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: Get your thoughts on the show at The Dogs Podcasts.com.
• 1:06:41
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• 1:07:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: You get protein-pad formula with over 50% of the recipe comprised of third-party certified humane butcherbox meat, plus functional ingredients like pre-imposed biotic to support your dog's vitality and digestion.
• 1:07:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know that sounds like a lot, but the bottom line is your dogs are getting the nutrition and the value they need and honestly that they deserve.
• 1:07:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know our home wouldn't be the same without Odie, our 100 pound golden retriever who thinks he's a 10 pound lap dog, he is not, but it gives us peace of mind knowing that we're giving him quality food instead of just that factory process garbage from the store.
• 1:08:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And speaking of the store, no need to go, but your box propests delivers their high-quality food right to your door.
• 1:08:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: So head to ButcherboxRepets.com slash products and use promo code dogs DAWGS for 20% off your order.
• 1:08:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's time for us dogs to give our dogs the nutrition they deserve.