Latest / Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman / Mark Kingsboro on Blast Exposure, Brain Health and His Road to Recovery | Broken Brains Ep. 107

Transcript

Mark Kingsboro on Blast Exposure, Brain Health and His Road to Recovery | Broken Brains Ep. 107 · Broken Brains with Bruce Parkman

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Hey folks, welcome to another edition of Broken Brains with your host, Bruce Parkman, the official podcast of the Mac Parkman Foundation, where we look at the issue of repetitive brain trauma from two aspects: repetitive head impacts of contact sports and repetitive blast exposure for our military service and veterans.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: And what these conditions are doing to the mental health and well-being of our children, athletes, and veterans.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Why is this important?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because this is not trained to our medical, psychiatric, or suicide prevention communities.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: And this makes you the front line of defense.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you need the knowledge that we share every one of these shows so that you can protect those who you love.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: On the show today, another amazing guest is Mark Kingsborough.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: My apologies.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: For more than two decades, Mark has dedicated his life to serving others.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: He has spent 14 years in the Army as a combat engineer, serving as a counter-IED specialist, explosive breaching instructor, and demolition range instructor.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: His career has placed them around hundreds of explosive detonations where repetitive blast exposure became part of his job.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: After leaving the military, his commitment to service continued through an eight-year law enforcement career, including time on a SWAT team, where he faced the physical and psychological demands that come with protecting communities on the front lines.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like many veterans and first responders, the years of cumulative stress and trauma eventually took a profound toll on his mental health, sleep, and overall quality of life.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Rather than allowing these experiences to find him, Mark chose to transform them into a new mission.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Through hyperbaric oxygen therapy or H spot, transcranial magnetic simulation, and human performance training, he found a path to recovery that changed his life.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: The results were so impactful that he decided to leave law enforcement and join the team at Aurelius Brain Health and Human Performance.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Mark combines his personal journey with his professional experience to help veterans and first responders unlock their full potential.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we all are very much aware nowadays that our first responder community is heavily overlooked.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: But Mark, thank you so much for coming on the show and thank you for your service to both this company and to our local law enforcement community.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, sir.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy to be here.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Spread the word.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Aw, man.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: All good, man.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us a little bit about your journey.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: How'd you end up in the army in the first place, man?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Dad tell you to get out of the house.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: You just wanted to be a green beret.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: What I mean, what was what was what was what was it that got you in the army, bro?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I just uh I didn't really have anything going on after high school working, bunch of dead end jobs, construction, excavation.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's what my family did my whole my whole life is work, they worked themselves to death.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it just they didn't, I mean, that they didn't go anywhere, they didn't leave the area.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: I was never on an airplane until I went to basic training.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: So you and me both.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm from uh Lancaster, Pennsylvania, Amish country.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: So just decided I need to do something.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: My friends are doing nothing, doing, you know, going nowhere.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: I just wanted more for myself, so that's what led me to the army.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: All right, and why so when you say counter IED, was that EOD that you joined?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Were you were you an explosive ordinance attachment guy?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I was a combat engineer, and then I went to the explosive uh engineer explosive ordnance clearance agent course from EOD, and then uh we worked in some teams for counter IED downrange.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: I did uh some counter IED and uh route clearance, but then did on foot uh cachet clearance.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um we detonated some doors for SF guys, we we did a bunch of random stuff.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously you've done a couple tours in Iraq and or Afghanistan.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: I had 15 months in Iraq, yeah, back in 2008, I think.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a long time.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, but that that's when it was no fun.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, you know, when I was when I was in Iraq checking in on my contractors back in the day, I saw those route clearance teams talk a little bit about this.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, those buffaloes or whatever you guys had to drive, talk to us about.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I cannot imagine a job more stressful than being the target for everybody that's got an IED out there, and you're required to remove them.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to talk to us a little bit about that because I don't think I've ever interviewed somebody that's actually done route clearance before.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I was mortified that we would chuck these kids out in a machine that was designed to blow up the IEDs that they would just go out there and do this day after day.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot even imagine the amount of stress.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to us about this, man.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: This because this is crazy.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: With particular vehicles, uh, did you ever see the Huskies?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: They're modular sections.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's a one-man vehicle, no guns, nothing.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: They have uh some panels underneath them to look for uh metal.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: But other than that, they're just a one-man vehicle.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: They look like kind of like a I don't know, it's hard to explain them, but they would be too out front looking for uh crush wire was the big thing when I was there.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: They'd run small sections of crush wire randomly on the road.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um so they'd be out front looking for them, and then usually it's an RG with a gun truck, an RG31.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then the Buffalo, I was in the Buffalo most of the time.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: I operated, we had a robotic arm on the Buffalo, and then we deployed our talent robot out of the Buffalo too.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: So what was your job?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when you're doing this stuff, I want the audience to know what what was your job when you're out there, you know, doing this.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: I did everything.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: I I was a driver, a gunner, and then I was on the ground too, trying to get the talent robot deployed to hopefully interdict these.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Most of the times we interdicted these IDs by accident by running over them and they blew up.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's what I want the audience to.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you were literally out there blowing these things up so our troops wouldn't get harmed.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: But you're like all by yourself, man, in this crazy looking vehicle that was designed to either detonate these bombs or have them blow up around you.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, what the what what kind of stress was that, man?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we looked at it as either our problem or it wasn't.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: If it blew up, it wasn't our problem anymore.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: We can move on to the next one.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: So that's I mean, I was a young kid, I was 21 years old.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: Most of them were young, 18 to 21, and then we had an old crusty platoon sergeant, you know, and he kept it.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: He was the one telling you guys go out there.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: But he was in the back.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: He was in the trail vehicle, yeah.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: So my lord.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: So he was with the medic, so anytime we needed a medic, he he coordinated the nine line medivax.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: He he was a great guy.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um so he was with the medic all the time.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: So he always he was always in the back.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but anytime we needed him, he jumped right in.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: That that young lieutenant needed some guidance too, you know.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: So there's uh platoon sergeants.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: I was lucky enough to become that senior NCO and a platoon sergeant, but he was a great role model.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: As his name was Sergeant First Class Askins, very good dude.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, man.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I because we had weapons intelligence teams on the ground, and these are guys that had drones, they had dogs, and they would go out on site and just, you know, and and after an IED, after an IED event, and then, you know, and collect information so we can go back.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we were always looking for the bomb maker, right?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because you take the bomb maker out, the whole ring, the whole network disintegrates, right?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I didn't I was like, what are those trucks?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: They go, Oh man, those are our IED guys.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: I go, what do they do?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: They go, Oh, they go looking for IEDs.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: They and they clear the routes every day they would go out.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you're literally in this vehicle just waiting for a bomb to go off, basically, right?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, yeah.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: And uh the big thing then that was terrifying because they started coming out with EFPs, the explosively formed penetrators.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: We're right right around Sodder City, just north of it, Fob Warhorse, and we did a lot of uh route transmissions out of there, and then our battalion is in Balad, but we went Tatus, Takrit, out near the Iran border, and then yeah, Soder City area.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I want people to know about these EFPs, because uh that was actually our target.
• 7:58
  unknown: Yeah.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to them a little about those things because those those puppies did not mess around, man.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they were so an EFP usually they would place them in either a fake rock or an overpass facing straight down.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: What is it?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's a copper plate, it could be even this small, and then uh it's concaved in, and then there's explosive charge behind it.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: So when the explosive charge goes off, it forms it into a penetrator, like a Sabo round that would go clean through almost any vehicle the uh army had at that time.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: We try to start introducing EFP armor, but they were only on the side, so they'd hit us from underneath on top.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, these guys were brilliant.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: They they saw what we were doing, they're watching us every day, and then they had counters, and we countered that, they countered, but some of our counters, I believe, did some damage too.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: We'd have the signal jammers and they'd be right next to the gunner satch, just emitting whatever kind of frequency for weeks at a time.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's things we also don't think about.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: There's no studies on.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: They say it's safe, but if it's distorting your head, say your radio, it's obviously sending some kind of microwaves through your head at the same time.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good point.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And folks, you know, these EFPs, we had nothing that could defeat them.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that was part of the mission that we we my company was on back in the day.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I had one of my best team sergeants, Sergeant Major Brad Conner from First Group, he got cut in half by one of those things.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: And but these things were they were lethal.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're talking tanks, man.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: They would go through anything.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: It was really a m it was really a mess.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then to your jamming thing, I mean, we had jammers on every vehicle there, and they were putting out thousands of watts.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Mark, I've never even thought about the impact that that might have.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna add that to some of the the studies that we're looking at right now because holy crapes.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you think of what a cell phone, if they're talking that cell phones might be dangerous, and you're sitting next to, I mean, right next to an antenna that's putting out thousand you know, watts and watts of energy.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Holy cow! And we had we had no protect.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like you're wearing a uh an aluminum cap or something that would, you know, just you know, prevent that stuff from entering your skull.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: And see, folks, that's just what we're talking about.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: As we put our young men and women in these situations and we give them equipment that, you know, we we know can do the job.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like those jammers work.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if they we would knock out all our IDs, these vehicles work.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: But the level of stress, the exposure to blast, the exposure to radio frequency, RF energy, we we never, we're not we're I mean, honestly, Mark, I don't think anybody's ever done a study on the impact of all that energy on our soldiers' brains.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because when we I had a contract to put them jammers on Humvees and we made them look like snorkel tubes.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Snorkel tubes in the desert, right?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like you're going into a swamp.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: But we they were putting out thousands of watts on a multiplicity of frequencies that we had to change because the the the terrorists would change their frequencies.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, like you say, we had to count it, right?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: We had to change the cars.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: But we've never even done a study on that that I'm aware of.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: And these are the Yeah, and and these are the checks that that we had uh uh to to to write, man.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so you did, you know, uh so how long were you in the army before you decided to get out?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: 14 years.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: You got any good, you got any good any good war stories about being the only guy out there?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean tell our audience this is crazy.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is I mean, folks, this is what I'm talking about.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: We got one guy out there just waiting to get blown up.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we said, that's how we cleared our routes in Iraq and Afghanistan.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: We would send out these young men and women in these vehicles to go ahead and clear the bombs so that the rest of the day our trap and then at night they'd put more bombs back in, and these guys had to go out.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to us about this stuff, man.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is uh these are stories that don't get told.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in addition to route clearance, though we would deploy individually to go support uh calf scouts or infantry to uh clear on foot the goat paths and the waddies and stuff like that.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I did a lot of air salts with uh calf scouts and uh had to walk with you know 10 pounds of C4 and uh a mod detector and uh walk out in front of all their their formations looking for looking for yeah, the toe poppers or the the small uh small booby traps they would put on goat trails and through the waddies outside the villages.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we would deploy individually like that, or as a route clearance, we'd go as a platoon.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: So come engineers of the sapper companies and stuff uh specifically I was in, it was it was great.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the 5th Engineer Battalion out of Fort Leonardwood is where I started my career.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we we were so versatile, and we were lucky that the Sapper school was there on Fort Leonardwood, and a lot of the instructors would come from this sapper school into our battalion and do a lot of training with us.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: So we had a huge advantage there, but then we get specialized missions, light clearing on foot.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's even more terrifying because you don't have a vehicle then.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: You're the one out front, everyone's waiting for.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you're the guy that's going up saying, Hey, it's okay so far.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I haven't been blown up.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: And we have an old school metal detector from Vietnam to try to find these IEDs.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: You had to look, you had to use your eyes.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: You can't find anything with uh with an old school, you know, my detector.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Holy cow.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you guys had no booze at all after all that.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: I can't uh you must have been so exhausted emotionally after just after doing those trips.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: You just must have slept like a lot, dude.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: And the worst thing was when I got back from that deployment, six months later, I was a recruiter in Los Angeles and had to try to swallow all that trauma and uh exhaustion and go out and be the public face for the army.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's not a good idea.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't good, huh?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: God dang, man.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's interesting, Mark, because you know, when we think about route clearance, we think about bombs, we always think about EOD.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've never made the correlation to the engineers.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess if you served, like you know, I retired, I was already retired.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you if you I guess if you were there, you would know that the engineers, uh, you know, this is part of their job.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because we think about engineers building stuff, right?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, runways and houses and stuff and berms.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: But uh holy cow, you know, being the only guy out front looking for geez, I can't even imagine, man.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and it's uh I'll uh you know, thank the Lord that you're here.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and and so before you got to law enforcement before you decided to make the switch, so how did this impact you, you know, psychologically, physically, you know, emotionally, um, you know, this this kind of trauma, this kind of exposure, because you know, you know, you're not only doing that, you're also training as well.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: So like I said, I went right into recruiting and uh it was really rough.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um self-medicating with alcohol, then going through a psychiatrist, but then they put me on, you know, kilanopin and other medications, like probably four or five medications at a time, ambient at night, one to wake up, one to get through the day.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that was their answer.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: Just so never really dealing with it.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: The only therapy back then, this was 2010, was just uh talk therapy, really, no EMDR or you know, trauma-focused therapy.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd be be so drugged up and then self-medicating with alcohol, trying to get through my day as a recruiter, you know, going out meeting people face to face in Los Angeles, you know, you imagine how crazy that is dealing with all that trauma.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, that's like one step lower than than Baghdad.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Los Angeles is a crazy city when you get downtown, bro.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah, where Compton, Englewood, all that stuff.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was rough.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: I lived, luckily, I lived out out of the city in Simi Valley, so that was nice, but I struggled through through recruiting because you had guys that never did anything.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: They were recruiters their whole career.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: First sergeants never, no deployments, nothing like that, telling me how you know they're gonna affect my NCOER if I don't make more people join the army, or if I don't talk to more people.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm also suffering from severe PTSD and brain trauma that was undiagnosed, never, never uh handled.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then you have the pressure from the army saying, Hey, we're gonna kick you out if you don't do this, and then no help from anybody, you know, except for 14.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: 14 years, we're gonna give you the boot after serving the company, going to country, going to war.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna give you the boot if you don't make your quota.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: This was uh this was rough.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: It was uh 2010, so I was only in at that point maybe three, four years.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: So after recruiting, though, I got out of that as quick as I could.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then I went to Fort that was rough.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: I went to Fort Stewart after that, and Fort Stewart was amazing.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: I was supposed to deploy to Afghanistan then, but they kept changing deployment cycles, and you're going, you're not, you're going, you're not.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: So we just kept doing train-ups.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I did uh a lot of uh a lot of train up with explosive breaching uh and learn how to like steel cutting charges, timber cutting charges, the old uh cratering charges, things like that.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know, big big charges.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then also we would train uh infantry and calf scouts have to qualify once a year on all their explosive tasks, like explosive breaching and things like that.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I was tasked to go and run those ranges.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I was also the battalion small arms master gunner, so I ran all the the M2 ranges, you know, the 50 cal ranges, the uh AT4 ranges, the Mark 19 ranges.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: So all that these are all big weapon systems, man.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, those are all, you know, that's that's a lot of you know repetitive blast exposure.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we're finding out now that your position, the range safety opposite, right?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: The range, you know, the the the SME, you know, the the students are firing, you know, 100 rounds, they're firing a can of 50 cal.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: You're sitting there through, you know, 10, 20, 30 of these kids doing the same, you know, doing that.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when you were on the AT4 range, how many AT4s were you eating a day, you know, with these students?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it depends what time of the fiscal year it was, if we had to get rid of a pellet of them or if you know we're just qualifying.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, explain, explain to the audience why we don't bring anything back from the range, man.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, man, because then they won't give you as much next time.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: So we want to keep getting as much as we can.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: So we tell the uh the battalion S3, yeah, we used everything, you know.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone got great training here.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, and those AT4s, man.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I'm I'm an old guy.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Law Rockets was all I knew back in the day.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: But those AT4s, what's the limit?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think they they, I mean, it was uh like during your time, you shoot as many of them as you want.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Now I think what is it, four a day, and that's it, like for a long time because of the amount of yeah, you know, the amount of explosion.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, those things go off right next to your ear for crying out loud, right?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: The same thing with the Carl Gustav, that thing is rough too.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um I know SF uses more Gustavs than we use, more AT4s, but uh yeah, the the soft community used as Carl Gustoffs and they were rough too.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's yeah, and that's what I try to get the eyes to understand is that you know Mark is one of thousands, t hundreds of thousands of veterans that go that went through this, right?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Different jobs, different capacities in the military.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we never thought there'd be consequences.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because you just shoot an AT-4, you know, you're all right.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like you're knocked out or whatever.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's asymptomatic, right?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: You we don't have the issues that we think, but over time it it adds up.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: So when did you first really start, you know, feeling the impact of your military service?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: You talked about you know medicating and then all the great drugs that the VA gives you because that's all they really know how to do.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and how long, how long was it before you really started putting um being able to start putting the pieces back together?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um when I was uh Hey Danny, uh you gotta mute yourself, bro.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead, man.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead, Mark.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: When I left, uh probably when I was in Fort Stewart, I started doing more explosive breaching training.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: So that's you know, you have minimum safe distance, small charges, but we would do hundreds a day, just hits.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I was the safety officer, so I was with every stack in that.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so I started getting more headaches, more confusion, more brain fog.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I I didn't understand why because the medic's like, oh, you're at the safe distance, you'll be fine, drink some water, you're probably dehydrated.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: And the medic is a 17-year-old or 18-year-old kid from Chicago who has basic EMT training.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's what conventional forces have.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's the kind of med, nothing against them.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen them doing some incredible, heroic things, but their level of training with blast exposures, they don't get that.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um so when I started taking more hits like that, running these demo ranges at Fort Stewart, I noticed changes starting to happen pretty rapidly.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was able to hold it together for a while when I got out of the army then.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: I was able to get through the police academy, but it was a struggle.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'd be reading a page of of law, and by the time I got to the end of the page, I'd have to reread it because I didn't comprehend what I just read.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I'm like something's not right, but you know, I'll I'll be alright, I'll get through it.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I I found ways to, you know, I had to listen to it, things to remember instead of reading.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh compensate.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, compensate.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then throughout my law enforcement career, I would arrest somebody here downtown, and by the time I got into jail, I'd forget what they did, I forget their name, things like that.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, credibility as a police officer, I'm not, you know, if that's a huge thing.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to go on the stand to testify, and I'm like, I'm I'm 40 years old.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: Why can't I remember this?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this something's not right.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Was that uh so what was the transition point from, you know, you got you're a law enforcement officer, you're obviously, you know, challenged and doing your job from a very basic functionality perspective.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: What what what was the decision point to say, look, man, I I I gotta I gotta do something about this?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And during this time, obviously you're going to the VA and you're not getting too much help there, you're just getting a bunch of drugs, I guess, huh?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, same thing.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: More drugs, more just talking in circles about the same trauma.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: I I felt okay with what I did in Iraq, what happened, you know, friends have lost, things like that.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: But nothing was sticking in my head.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: It just kept talking in circles, talking in circles, and nothing I couldn't shake the depression.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't s uh the sleep, no matter what kind of drugs, you know.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I started to spiral and uh the the accumulation of all that stress from the SWAT team, being a patrol officer here in a city environment, seeing murder, seeing suicide, seeing kids die of overdoses, you know, car accidents, it started to wail me a lot, and I couldn't regulate my emotions.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't purge it.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't, you know, I just kept building on.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: And there's something going on.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: Every time I tried to talk about it or with my ex-wife, I I tried to speak about it.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: I had I'd hit a mental wall, and it's nothing could get out.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: It was weird.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I couldn't process an emotion.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: So then it got really bad.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: I got involved with an officer involved shooting, more stress.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: One day I spiraled.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't sleep for three days.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: I took about four ambient, drank two bottles of alcohol, whiskey, and then I I spiraled and I tried to take my own life.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but I was so messed up on pills and booze, I shortstroked the shotgun.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: Luckily, by luck, that's it.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then uh I pulled the trigger and the click of that empty chamber, it uh sent me.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I knew I had to do something.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, for my kids, for for myself.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: I I I had to do something.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: I lost all hope in the in the healthcare system, the VA system.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know what to do.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's my decision point.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't have the balls to re-rack in and try again.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I knew if I wasn't gonna do that, I had to do something.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why, you know, God kept you around, man.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: You got kids.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: That was a God moment, bro.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and and uh, you know, unfortunately, you got there.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Fortunately, you know, you're here, right?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so from that point, from that lowest point, you know, how did you find your way back up?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: What what what got you to where you're at right now?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: Luckily, this program that I'm working on now, uh, they started here at Harrisburg University, and by dumb luck, one of my sergeants was working security for the university and said, Hey man, check out this program, you know.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: What what do you have to lose?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I did.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: I checked out the program, and uh luckily they accepted me.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: They would we're only going, you know, SWIC guys, uh, special forces, things like that, but I I talked to them and they accepted me in the program.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: And uh nothing, nothing I've ever tried or done has worked as effectively because they treat the root problem of the the brain trauma, the inflammation.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: The brain.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: The brain.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's what the problem was.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, talk about the protocols.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: So what what is the what did they offer?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because obviously, you know, you're very passionate about it.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um what were the uh treatments that you went through that uh that helped you, you know, helped you recover and get back on your feet?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: So they have three main pillars and two sub pillars.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: Their main pillars are the hyperbaric oxygen therapy, the transcranial magnetic stimulation, and the human performance, the exercise.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: But then they also provide nutrition, coaching, which is great.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the the gut health is direct correlation with brain health.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: I never knew that.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then they also do sleep, uh sleep help, you know, coaching for that too.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: And just dealing with all that stuff, you know, the the hyperbaric oxygen therapy, healing all those small uh wounds of my brain, getting the inflammation down.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: Not to mention, you know, my herinated discs, my torn knees, all that stuff.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: When I'm not in chronic pain every day when I get out of bed, my mood that instantly helps your mood.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know funny how that works.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's crazy, yeah.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: And you don't realize how much pain you're living in until it's gone.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: You just like, oh, this is life.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: This is how it is, you know?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, no, no kidding, man.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: So just that alone, the hyperbaric oxygen therapy, uh, does the science behind that is amazing.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um that helped all my thing.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I just want to stop you for a second.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Why is this not, you know, I mean, we hear about HPOT alone a lot.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: And you work with uh, you know, obviously an advanced program that uses it.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Why why do you think this is not more available as like a you know first line treatment for our veterans that you know all the other guy, you know, guys and girls that have been through what you've been through, man, you know?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, why why isn't it more prevalent or known about?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: VA approved, right?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: My guess is because it's not a pill that they can sell.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's a holistic approach.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's uh because all it is is pressure and oxygen, then it's can be available anywhere.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: We have a mobile, you know, we could take to anybody, any base, anywhere, and treat people, but it's not a pill that they can sell and then keep selling and keep selling and keep selling.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: So once you go through a hyperbaric oxygen therapy, you know, you might not need it again for a couple years.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: So that's my that's my guess.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, and then transcranial magnetic stimulation.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about that a little bit.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's this machine behind me here.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so a big thing with uh brain trauma or uh TBIs or even depression, anxiety, things like that.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: You start to use the back of your brain.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: There's so much trauma to the front, the logical part of your brain starts to shut down.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: So you start thinking with your lizard brain basically.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: You're in that hypervigilant state all the time.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: And uh that back of your brain is not meant to be your main function, you know, your brain function.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: So that's where a lot of the stress and anxiety comes from because it's overworking.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: So you're in that constant fight or flight mode.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: But what the transcranial magnetic stimulation does is we target the frontal lobe, and then that re-stimulates or creates new neural pathways in the front of the brain, and it stimulates your brain through uh just a magnet.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a magnet that sits against your scalp, but it sends waves through your head.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: It just feels like something tapping on your your scalp.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's nothing crazy, but it re starts to re-re-engage that part of your brain.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: So once you start to get the inflammation down with the H bot, and then your your brain's healing, we can re-stimulate those new blood vessels, the new neural pathways that the H-bot is creating with the transcranial magnetic stimulation.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, for you know, and and we know that you know TMS has been available here in the United States, but it's not that available.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, in Europe, like you find those things everywhere, man.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Everywhere.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, there's been all this, you know, we'll just say uh conspiracy theory that, you know, pharma keeps pushing those machines and manufacturers out.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because once again, nobody wants a cure for mental illness, unfortunately, right?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: They all want us on pills for the rest of their life.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's just an unfortunate, it's an unfortunate reality that, you know, that these and what was the third one?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: A human performance, right?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Human performance.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: So uh so talk about that, please.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh myself and my partner Sabir, another 14-year Army infantry veteran, we're certified personal trainers.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: So no matter what level, we have active duty SEAL guys coming in, or Delta guys, or you know, that are still physically active, we'll write a program for them or the 60-year-old Parkinson's patient who was a SWIC, you know, his whole career, we write a program for him.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: So we meet people where they're at, and we write an individualized exercise program because exercise is just as or more effective than antidepressants for you know depression.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you get the body moving, again, the inflammation is being reduced from the HBOP.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: You get the right stretches in, you start to activate those muscles, regain some confidence in yourself.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because you haven't moved in so long.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of guys start to feel like, you know, I'm broken, I can't do this.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we don't treat you like a victim here.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna do the work.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're gonna help you and we're gonna show you ways to get better.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: So with those three things together right there, that's like an 80% improvement we see.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: But then we add in the sleep coaching.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: Our um nurse practitioner here, her background is sleep and pulmonary.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: So she she's amazing with sleep coaching, with giving guys tips on things like that, how to improve sleep and actually get quality sleep instead of being on ambient where you're in some weird sleep state that uh you never actually get to rest.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: You get some good dreams though.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's it's so dangerous.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: Ambient ambient is rough.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of guys hallucinate and have no idea what's going on.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, and then our our our nutrition coaching, yeah, the one we use, we use uh Mary Catherine.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Her uh master's degree is in operator syndrome.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: So they have a master's in operator syndrome?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so I mean her uh what is it the final paper she wrote.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: The thesis is on is on operator syndrome.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: So she's worked with uh tons of special forces guys, uh conventional warfare guys, and she talks all about gut health, and gut health is so huge because gut and brain talk directly.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to us about that because this is an emerging area that I I recently went through myself when um I was I had a massive shoulder reconstruction and I was you know doing you know peptides and I came across this protocol with L-glutamine and and all this stuff, and you know, and I pretty good.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: But my wife keeps telling me that your your first brain is your gut.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: We always talk about your your gut feeling, and she's and she really pushes.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm starting to really, you know, of course, I always have to tell my wife, you're right, honey, again, right?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but yeah, yeah, but talk talk to us about this gut brain access and how important it is to health and and and mental health and physiological health, because we never associate our gut with brain health, man.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to us about that because this this is fascinating.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is fascinating to me too.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's just and any everyone is different.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: So that's where each person that comes to the program gets an individual session with her, and then we do a group session so she finds out the background and what your symptoms are through uh just a one-on-one coaching meeting, and then she can uh recommend a specific diet to your lifestyle and your symptoms, and just give you recommendations on things to take.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: Our biggest recommendation, well, mine is what I do every morning.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: Creatine is huge.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: Creatine is is amazing for me and it's so safe for almost everyone to take.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Creatine and hydration, just those two things alone, I handle that first thing in the morning, and that's been a huge change in my life.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Being hydrated, if your brain gets a little, even a little dehydrated, that brain fog starts to creep back in.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're taking care of your hydration um and the creatine that's shown to be a huge for your brain health, um, but then other things like sauerkraut or kimchi or you know, things like that to equalize your gut biome are huge.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: And these are all just simple changes you can make uh through your diet.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: Talk about eating whole foods instead of processed foods, make changes like that.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's all very simple things, but when we put all these five things together with a holistic approach, it's amazing what what a difference it can make.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously it's it's helped you out a lot, and that's great.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: So where where are you at now?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: How do you find people, man, that then let them know about this?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, we've always when we talk to the VA or we talk to legislators, the biggest issue is we know, you know, uh you know treating the brain, what you're what you're doing, which you know, some of the polytrauma, you know, everybody's in there, and whether we're talking about opening that up to psychedelics or whatever, we're we're talking about brain optimization.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it's all about healing, but it's also about scale.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you know, outside of the H bot, right, these modalities don't cost a lot to either, you know, to provide, right?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: TMS machines run maybe 100, 150 grand, which is you know, I know that's kind of a little bit of money, but how long does a TMS a TMS session last?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: It depends.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: We have a 19-day protocol.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: If they're on a 19-day protocol, it's 10 minutes, less than 10 minutes.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: But they do it a few times a day.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then after 19 days, I mean, you you know, not that you're cured, but your brain health as in prior, yeah, has improved.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: We could scale this, man.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: You put two or three, I mean, in every city, every VA, three, four, five, the TMS, you just keep filling them up with veterans, man, and they don't need a whole bunch.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: They have to find the time, and that's part of the challenge is when you've got a veteran that's suffering, you know, they they gotta, they gotta, they gotta own this too, right?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: They gotta come in.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, but you know, the scale is uh is something that's always been an issue, but when you're talking about modalities that at the cost per patient are so inexpensive, and you're not gonna do TMS for the rest of your life.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like you know, you know, and you're gonna do it, you might have to come back, you know, like a year or two or every three years, but you're not on drugs.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: You're not a disaster, you've got your life back.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: And this is worth every dime that the taxpayer I mean, this is a good use of taxpayer monies.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, instead of all the drugs that we're spending money on and and therapy that doesn't hit anything, because you're talking about actually attacking the problem, which is the brain.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: The brain's been damaged, the brain needs help, and therapy and and cats and dogs, you know, and and and drugs don't do anything.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the go-to formula for anybody that we meet right now in the medical care system, civilian or military.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so so how are you finding these folks and getting them into your clinic so that they can get the help you need?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because we'd love to help you put the word out if we could, too.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's all it's all word of mouth right now.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: We start with a small group of uh the Navy boat guys, uh the boat crew, sweat guys who carry seals, and then through word of mouth, and then um they have foundations.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: We had some uh Green Berets come through, Green Beret uh helping out.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: We're actually going to the warrior care program down in uh in Orlando.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we'll be there.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: You'll be there.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, dude.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we're gonna yeah, yeah, we'll have a booth there, man.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let's link up.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we will too.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: Let's connect.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: We can't bring our mobile unit, there's not enough room, but we will be bringing it down to Tampa next year if you'll be around.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: We'll figure that out.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: But uh for Soft Week?
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, dude.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's we we we uh yeah, I've got another, I've got a we have a lot of fun at Soft Week, man.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we'd love to know about that because what I'd like to do is um, you know, I I was General Fenton's brain advisor when he was the SOCOM commander.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: I could do some introductions.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: We'll we'll talk about that offline.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: But uh yeah, brain health has to be part of of Soft Week.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: And there's actually a human performance chapter that's run by the Global Soft Foundation.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: I can link you up.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, yeah.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: That'd be great.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: Now, let me be, I mean, this is not a a cure all.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: I still have bad days, but the difference is now I can process those emotions and I can get through those days logically.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: So that just being out of chronic pain and being able to process an actual emotion has it has turned my life around so much.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: And what's amazing about this place is it's completely free to active duty and veterans.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: We're privately funded.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: This is a nonprofit organization.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: We'll fly you.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: You you get here, we you pay for your travel, but we have apartments for the guys that come.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: We have uh three apartments now, so six beds, and none of this cost anything.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: We just need you to come.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: You don't pay for anything except for food and travel.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have trouble with that, we'll we'll help you out.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: We even have a mobile unit, like I said, and we could take the TMS and HBOT to wherever and and treat people where they're at.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to see people that's something I I honestly believe.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: We need to take that into our prisons and start treating, you know, some of these kids that have played a lot of ball, a lot of boxing, a lot of combination, or that were in the military and got injured and then, you know, made a stupid move, you know, and to give them a chance to get their health back, because everything you're talking about, just that modal that list of modalities right there, those five things can do a lot to get a guy.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we just lost a young kid that I mentored for years, and he was a hole in a hole.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't know about it, but this kind of program could have helped him at least, you know, that Kratom stuff that we were talking about is a horrible, horrible mess.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: And he got on that and he couldn't get off it, and he was trying all this other stuff, but that kind of program could have let him see a little bit of light, and you're helping so many uh young men and women uh, you know, get through that.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, and and and that's what we're trying to try to let people can we cure this?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, but we can make it better.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's always other modalities that if you stay focused on your brain, when you give a soldier a problem, like hey, your brain's damaged, all right?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now they got a pro they gotta they gotta go find the solution.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna they're gonna work on the problem.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: When they just think they're crazy, or they just think they're, you know, hey man, I'm sorry, man, I'm just gonna check out, whatever.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: We can't we got they with and they don't think there's any hope.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's when we start losing these young men and women.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: They've got to know about programs like this.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so Well, even even guys who are still in, let's let's treat the problem before it gets to there.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, guys coming back from deployment, they're they have brain trauma.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna have to be able to do that.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't they roll through something like this every time they come back from a training mission, right?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't this be on every military base right now for anybody to just go go through this is on a this is not even a huge cost.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Kripes, you're on a military facility, your doctors are paid for, your nurses are paid for, you have buildings, right?
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yep now all we got to do is put these machines in there and start scheduling these kids, but we've got to train people to look for mental illness.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: You self-diagnosed yourself, right?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, to the most part for me.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: You you I mean, so I mean, did did anybody anybody tell you that during the time that you were on your way out or anything that you had a damaged brain?
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: Were you ever evaluated for you know repetitive impacts, repetitive blast exposure, TBI, anything like that?
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: The VA denied that claim, said that T my TBIs are not service connected because they weren't well documented in Iraq.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: You got yeah, see, and this is boy, this is what throws me through the roof, man.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, is that we were so ignorant of this problem that we're denying claims to soldiers who have there's no other, I mean, what else is in your military records unless you played, you know, football for 40 years is gonna put you in the condition you're in and not be able to blame the military.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so uh it wasn't documented because I was an NCO or I had to keep going.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he can't just say time out.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in the middle of nowhere by myself, you know, or with a small team.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like we can't just say, well, you know, that blast, that one hurt.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: Let me go get checked.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I have all the documentation.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like I got awards for, you know, we lost every vehicle in a convoy to IEDs one day.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, just all this stuff.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: And the VA's like, well, yeah, we'll diagnose you with it on the medical side, but for compensation and pension, no.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a good idea.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'll tell you, after the are you getting any disability for this at all?
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: I am now.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: It took 10 years, but I'm now finally 100%.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's not about the number, it's about recognizing that this is an issue.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the BA is now starting to get a hold of it.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, you know, back in those days, think of all the kids that just went on in that fog and haze and are not here because they had no money.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're finding veterans under bridges for crying out loud right now.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: And trying to do that.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: Another thing we treated that's that's been denied for years is uh Havana syndrome.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: We've had a guy, two people come through Havana syndrome.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: The CIA denied it forever, the the military.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: But that's the same thing we're talking about, the the IED jammers, same kind of waves.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: And they've come through and had amazing results because brain trauma, you know.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: So that's another dude.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: You just tied that together.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's like, look, what are we gonna, you know, you know, if these kids have been driving by these jammers, then you know, what would be the outcome?
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we just you know, we got Havana syndrome, so there's there's a a diagnosis that's been tied to RF emission that we can now apply to veterans.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, everybody was driving around those jammers, bro.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you were in a vehicle, you were surrounded, like not only did you have one, you had one 30 feet in front of you or behind you.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you We had a backpack one, so when we dismounted, we have it all in a backpack and it was right here by your head.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that antenna is like right behind your head.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: And did we even think about this?
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you got to survive, right?
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was and it was effective.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: Don't get me wrong, they worked.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was effective.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they worked.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, it's like when you get out, we've got to understand what we do to our soldiers because now we have to fix them.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: Or we have to, we have to actually treat this, like you said, in the military.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then when they we get out, we we we continue that treatment because they deserve the quality of life.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and and I let me ask you this would you would you join the army all over again now?
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: We all would, right?
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: We all would, dude.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, man, I've I've been I've cut away parachutes, I've been shot in the face, a training act.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've done, man, I almost died, I counted, eight times in the in the military.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: Eight times almost died.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd do it all over again.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I had no idea that my brain would have been screwed up because the VA had everything out, they can fix brones, they can, yeah, they give you medicine, all that.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a lot of fun.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: They have TMSs.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: They have TMSs.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: They just you have to fail a certain uh number of medications before they even consider you for TMS.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then would you fail medica?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: Why is it not first?
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and then you need the medication.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: If this don't help you, wow, we gotta talk about that, man.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'll I'd like to get some names of the doctors you're talking to to get maybe come to the summit after this.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: But nah, fascinating, man.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: This is fascinating.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, Mark, I mean, as we close, I always like to give our guests as much time as they need to talk about themselves, the program, what do you have going on?
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: How do people find you so that um they can remain engaged?
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: Can you go ahead and talk about, you know, you know, what's going on in Mark Kings Kingsboro's life, what you got next, what do you got planned?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh talk about the program, uh, any resources that are out there on the internet, you know, whether you got or you guys have a podcast, do you have a podcast?
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: How how do people find you, man?
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right now we're just startup.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: We're less than two years old.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: So we've been doing you know, small groups of stuff.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: We're looking to scale and help people either where they're at or bring them here.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like I said, it's free to everybody.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: You can apply to our website, uh myrelius.org.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: You can find us on Instagram, Facebook.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: Again, our social media is not big, our marketing is not big.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: We don't we don't go out and promote yet.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's all word of mouth.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: But um there's you know on the website, myrelius.org, there's a connect to care link.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: You fill out a small application, very, very basic.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: Sends it to our team here, uh, we'll review it and get back to you.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then even before you come to the program, it because it could take we have a little waiting list.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we're booked out through maybe September.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: But if something's going on, call us, talk to us.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: We'll we'll talk to anybody.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: And if we can't help you right away, we'll get you to somebody that can until you can get here.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: We've lost some people, unfortunately.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: I've lost some friends too, waiting for care.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: So we don't want that to happen.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: Anything we can do to help you out, our team is pretty small.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: We have five full-time people, and what's good with that is we all we all care.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: We we're here for a reason.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: We all left our other careers to come here and do this.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: We care about if our veterans don't take care of each other, we're not gonna get the help we need.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: So we're here for it.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um reach out that way at all.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think I did uh another podcast, Security Halt.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'll be on there.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: The links on there.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think we'll we'll link the the website and everything here too in the description, right?
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: So absolutely, yeah.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: We'll get to that.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so just reach out to us and yeah, it's like I said, it's free.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: Don't worry about it.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: We'll get you in if we can.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: And and honestly, when you when you have veterans that you think are really struggling and you don't have room for them, let us know.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we've got, you know, along with you know, Denny, our producer, and a bunch of other, you know, special forces foundations, we've got other networks that we can at least get them started on something while they're waiting to get in your program.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: So please let it help.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: That'll be amazing.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let us get more involved and uh we'll we'll we'll reach out to you after this.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: And uh Mark, thank you so much.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, no, no problem.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: We'll we'll make sure it happens.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: And Mark, thank you so much for your service, not to only to our country, to our local communities.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh this has been an amazing conversation.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: You're doing beautiful things.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad that you know the Lord, you know, showed you the path, man, from that deep dark moment to where you're at right now, helping others, serving others is what we all need to do.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your story.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is amazing.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate the uh the platform to talk about this.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: Man, dude, I can't those jammers now, man.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh now you got me in mind all on that, man.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna have to go back.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: I never even thought about that, bro.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, because you're right, they're right behind your head, they're in the vehicle, and they put out I mean, the ones that we installed frequencies, bro.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: They put out a thousand watts, bro.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's like having an AM radio station right there crushing you, and we haven't even thought about that.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm digging into that one deeper.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: But, anyways, thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful thing.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, folks, another amazing episode.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: The gosh, the stuff we learn on this show.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, can't, you know, cannot thank our producer for finding these guests to come on and sharing their experience with you so that we all become you know more aware and better.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget, if you're a parent out there, the only book on repetitive head impacts for kids is on our website.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: We just upgraded it.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's free.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: Download it, get a hold of it.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: All you know, nothing but hope outlines the problem so that you can become more informed.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget about our summit September 16th and 17th.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Mark would love to have you guys come down right here at the Center for Advanced Medical Learning and Simulation here in Tampa, wonderful, beautiful Tampa.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: The next day, golf tournament, always looking for sponsors.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: And guess what?
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to just play golf.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: You can push a Humvee for time, carry people in a medical uh center.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have to shoot golf balls out of M4s.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna be pushing, you know, we're gonna be swinging golf clubs and body armor.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of fun, man.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: Every dime goes to veteran services to support causes like Mark's there.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so remember, you know, we're all here to take care of each other, as Mark said, man.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you're a veteran, whether you're a first responder, whether you're a parent with a child, we have we are a community of people that care and we got to do a better job.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we do this show.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to thank you so much for listening to our podcast today.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed it, be sure to follow us on Instagram at broken underscore brains underscore podcast.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: Again, Instagram at broken dot underscore brains underscore podcast, or subscribe to us at YouTube at broken brains with Bruce Parkman.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: And all the support we get is is better as we get uh you know become more aware, gain more recognition for us as a podcast on Brains.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: And please reveal leave a review on Apple, Spotify, you know, uh wherever you help, wherever you see us, it really helps us as we grow the podcast there.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to thank you so much for your support.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you in the next episode.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, if you got kids, they only got one melon, please take care of them.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're a veteran and you've seen some stuff out there, you're not alone.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: And there's guys like Mark and I that care a lot, and we want to help you.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: So please reach out.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: Till the next episode.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, and God bless you all uh from Broken Brains, the official podcast of the Mac Parkman Foundation.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: Take care.