Latest / The Discussion Podcast / The Lunch Discussion - The Housing Gap: Inside the UK's Social Housing Crisis with ABC Warranty

Transcript

The Lunch Discussion - The Housing Gap: Inside the UK's Social Housing Crisis with ABC Warranty · The Discussion Podcast

0:00
This is the Late Late Lunch Show with Rod Maxwell. Supported by... That's,
0:07
for you, Rod! Tower bed learning in nature's playground.
0:12
So today on the Late Late Lunch Show, we're continuing our discussion about housing in the UK.
0:17
And we're moving on now from homelessness into the topic of social housing.
0:21
Because there is a gap in the market for social housing.
0:25
And also there's a gap in the number of houses in demand in the UK.
0:29
We're not building actually enough. And I'm delighted to have really all the
0:32
sponsor ABC Warranty guys, Adele and Mark Easton from ABC Warranty,
0:38
to talk to me about this because,
0:40
building and the building industry, Adele, is your sweet spot.
0:44
That's the industry you work in.
0:46
It is. We're surrounded by it. And I think generally, infrastructure and construction
0:51
touches, I would say, pretty much 90% of the entire UK workforce in some form or another.
0:57
It's interesting. And of course, you would want there to be more building because
1:01
that creates more business, both for you and the construction industry.
1:05
But if I understand that we're not building enough homes to meet demand,
1:11
what do you think is behind that?
1:13
Oh, so many different factors. Cost of living, for one, is driving people out of the mortgage market.
1:21
The cost of energy bills, the cost of materials and construction.
1:26
The cost to actually buy and deliver on a scheme where it's going to provide profit for a developer.
1:31
Okay and just out of interest in terms of what you do within the whole process
1:37
because there's multiple partners in the building process what what is it that
1:40
abc warranty does within that industry well first of all mark,
1:46
will be your second point of contact so the first one will be let's say,
1:51
mr developer wants to build 10 houses he'll shop around the internet and he'll
1:56
come across structure warranty providers to be able to build a house first of
2:00
all you have to have all your ducks in a row one of those
2:02
legalese in terms of insurance is a 10-year structure warranty,
2:07
at which point you then start googling away best 10-year structure warranty
2:11
provider obviously we're going to appear pretty close if not to the top and
2:14
in fact we've got the best google reviews out of all of our competitors so might drop.
2:20
So once you've got a price from us and you've shopped around the market and
2:24
you know who you want to select, if you came to ABC Warranty,
2:27
Mark would then look at the underwriting risk and he'll probably talk to you
2:31
in a little bit more detail about that and what is involved.
2:34
The client goes ahead, we accept the risk, and then there's monitoring all the
2:38
way through from our fully chartered building surveyors.
2:41
Providing the property is built to building regulations and it meets construction
2:46
standards that are acceptable to a 10-year structure warranty insurer,
2:50
such as ourselves, we'll then certify
2:52
that property with a 10 or a 12-year insurance warranty certificate.
2:58
And that certificate differs a little bit, well, a lot compared to your buildings
3:02
and contents home insurance.
3:04
Because this policy is designed purely to repair or rebuild if necessary due
3:11
to the result of a major structural defect to the house.
3:16
And Adele, does that mean that you always come in at the beginning of a house
3:19
building project or if I was to buy a house as an individual buyer,
3:24
could I get you in to check the house and understand what's going on?
3:29
Where's your sweet spot in terms of the housing sector?
3:33
Well, two questions there. So I think the first one is at what point are we
3:37
involved and ideally involved?
3:39
We can be involved at any stage.
3:42
And what that means is ideally we like to be there from day one.
3:46
So before the spade goes in the ground to assess the site, obviously the ground.
3:52
And Mark again will tell you about some of the risks also involved from that
3:55
perspective when we look at underwriting the scheme and the project that's been delivered.
4:01
Then I guess our sweet spot is that, you know, from excavation all the way through to the end.
4:06
But you do have some developers for one reason or another. Sometimes it's genuine.
4:11
Let's say, for example, they will have taken a warranty out on a scheme.
4:16
They were involved from the beginning.
4:18
But partway through the scheme, the contractor has become insolvent.
4:22
They've had to then close their doors. a new contractor is involved and the
4:27
existing warranty provider doesn't like,
4:30
the risk profile and the financial risk of what that new contractor looks like
4:35
they don't like the fact that they don't know what's going on historically before
4:39
their involvement of insuring the property and so there's lots of different,
4:44
reasons why we would not necessarily be involved from the beginning and no one
4:49
knows what's around the corner you know the impact of you know the cost or building materials.
4:55
That you don't know how fine developers profit margins are although we do because
5:01
again mark's going to talk you through the underwriting and we've got all of
5:04
that juicy information behind the scenes,
5:06
so yeah so if i sort of hand you over to mark at this point because it's really
5:11
interesting actually how we and insurers underwrite a risk so mark,
5:18
are you you You seem to be working almost between, say, a house developer and the buying sector.
5:23
Are you working almost like an independent in that relationship?
5:28
We are in a way, yeah. We've got to protect you as well, Rod.
5:31
You said, you know, what about if you come along and you buy a house that was
5:35
built a few years ago, but it's only a couple of years old.
5:38
So if that property that you're now living in has an ABC structural warranty
5:42
on there and there's a structural defect, you'd be contacting us.
5:45
So our end consumer, our end user of our product, we might not know them yet.
5:50
So Mark, has house building become more challenging, more risky?
5:55
Has it got more challenges today than maybe it had in the past?
6:01
I think it's important when you are examining a risk to make sure that we are,
6:06
putting our best foot forward. We are making sure that we are going to help
6:10
the future homeowner by covering a good property for them.
6:14
Now, obviously, over the last 10, 15, 20 years, there's been a lot of changes
6:19
in the housing market in the UK.
6:21
And there's been events that have taken place that has changed our mentality.
6:26
Unfortunately you've just got to look at Grenfell when we are considering a risk,
6:32
we need to make sure at an early stage that the property is being built in accordance
6:37
to building regulations the UK standard it's got the correct backing,
6:41
by a company that is fit for purpose and it's going to produce that property
6:46
for the future homeowner so it's important at an underwriting stage that we
6:51
have the information needed to,
6:54
assess a risk correctly.
6:57
Whilst considering external factors, changes, and that's the UK government regulations.
7:04
And obviously we've got our excellent technical team in the office who assist in that aspect.
7:11
And is some of the factors that are contributing to the risk around,
7:16
I don't know, say new technologies or our new approaches to building or maybe even the underlining,
7:23
situation with a site because we're trying to use more grey sites, for example,
7:28
exactly and that's a very good question there are many different ways now building a property,
7:34
you've got the traditional block and brick timber frame but you could look towards modern technology,
7:41
where you look at an icf build look at six panels how the property's being built
7:46
even getting to the point we've got 3d printing technology building properties for us nowadays,
7:52
which is it speeds up the process of building property and get more properties
7:56
out there, which is obviously what we need to start looking towards for filling
7:59
up this void that we're missing in the country.
8:02
Though methodologies are fascinating for an underwriter because no two cases
8:08
are the same. Everyone is an individual, how they plan to build it,
8:12
what they're wanting from it.
8:15
We do due diligence ourselves. We go out to sites.
8:19
We look at these technologies, how they're being manufactured,
8:22
what kind of accreditation has it got back in it, has it had its rigorous testing,
8:27
what kind of fire protection it's got, what type of penetration for moisture,
8:33
has it got everything that we need in order to create a safe property for all future homeowners.
8:40
But it's an exciting time at the moment in construction because of this new
8:43
technology coming into play.
8:46
And I guess new standards, new policies. And we're going to take a break and
8:49
we're talking housing with the guys from ABC Warranty today, Dell and Mark.
8:54
We're going to also talk a little bit about the housing building gap and the
8:58
impact that's having and also
8:59
social housing because it's something that we've missed for a long time.
9:03
It probably is contributing to the number of people that are unable to secure a home.
9:08
That leads to the homeless situation. That's what we've been talking about on
9:11
the show for the last two weeks.
9:12
We'll be back with them in a couple of minutes' time.
9:16
You're listening to The Late Late Lunch Show. Back to the Garden Childcare,
9:20
where little explorers grow naturally.
9:23
You listened to the Lately Lunch Show on Radio Alty with Rod Maxwell,
9:26
and we're continuing our discussion on our exploration into housing in the UK.
9:31
And I'm delighted I've got Adele and Mark from our sponsor here at Radio Alty,
9:37
ABC Warranty, a local company that's very much nationwide and involved in the
9:42
building industry in the UK.
9:45
Adele, the type of warranties that you now provide.
9:51
When did that become more when did that become a factor in the whole building
9:57
relationship what led to that um i think it's because the nhbc,
10:02
had the monopoly in the market so there was a requirement for,
10:07
national home builders to be able to not just deliver good quality homes but
10:13
for those homes to be insured with a specifically structural defect-backed insurance policy behind it.
10:20
So the NHBC were the first people in the market many, many, many years ago.
10:24
And then obviously the fair markets competition and.
10:30
Together with just being able to supply the rest of the construction sector
10:36
in all different areas and locations meant that there was other opportunities for,
10:42
other companies and organizations like ourselves to step into that market and
10:46
to release that pressure from that one person.
10:49
And it also therefore meant that developers had choice in the market.
10:53
They weren't restricted to just one structure warranty provider.
10:59
So that's where the history of structure warranty providing began really.
11:04
I guess like all relationships and specifically insurance relationships,
11:09
your ideal situation is that you avoid the worst case problem where a house
11:14
builder and a buyer gets into dispute.
11:17
You're there to partner all the way through, to point things out,
11:20
to fix at the time so that you don't end up buying a house that you find out that it's got issues.
11:27
Exactly, yeah. And then even at the end, actually, so once a property is completed,
11:32
a new homeowner may have issues with defects that the developer is supposed
11:37
to put right and rectify within the first two years of the property being completed.
11:42
And so there may still even be a dispute between the new homeowner and the developer
11:48
that originally built the property for up to a period of two years,
11:52
at which point we can step in,
11:54
not necessarily as, well, we're more of an independent mediator.
11:58
So we will introduce in this, this service is free of charge,
12:01
access to our consumer code, which is approved by the trading standards,
12:06
Chartered Trading Standards Institute.
12:09
And what that means is they've got a Centre of Dispute Resolution service.
12:16
They provide independent dispute resolution.
12:18
Our clients, if you've got our ABC warranty in place, they don't have to pay to access that.
12:23
I know that the majority of warranty providers in the UK charge for that service.
12:28
But with us, that's free and that's all-encompassing within our consumer code.
12:32
So if there is any issues and the developer is playing hardball or,
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you know, So, I mean, let's just say that they've been out quite a few times
12:40
to resolve a few issues, but actually it's still not right.
12:44
Then CEDA, the Centre of Effective Disfuelite Resolution, will mediate between
12:50
the two parties and they'll either say, look, Mr.
12:52
Developer, either go out because if you don't do this now, you're going to be
12:56
stuck with a fine. And this is a legally binding contract because you've entered
12:59
into a consumer code and all warranty providers.
13:05
Doesn't matter which one of us you're using you all have to sign up to a consumer code Mark,
13:12
just from a layman's point of view you now see houses that seem to go up very
13:18
quickly and the technology that we're using both in the structure as well as the more.
13:27
Internal aspects of it has changed dramatically And I can imagine policies around
13:33
fire safety, around efficiency, et cetera, are changing all the time.
13:37
So you've got a massive changing set of technical requirements and technical materials.
13:44
It must be quite difficult sometimes for builders to keep up with that.
13:48
And that in itself must cause a problem.
13:52
You are correct. Obviously, regulations are changing constantly and houses are
13:56
coming up very quickly. Example, my drive to work, I'm driving past a new housing
14:02
estate at the start of the year.
14:04
About 10 of those properties are already done and it's September and it's been
14:08
quite impressive to see the journey that that housing estate's kind of taken into effect.
14:13
But what you stated there, it's important that you do have an independent party
14:18
coming into a development, making sure that has been built correctly.
14:23
Now, as part of our technical team, part of their job is to keep up to date
14:28
with the changing industry.
14:30
Learning is happening every week. They've got to do annual CPD that all our
14:36
surveyors undertake as part of ABC.
14:39
They will come up to Manchester, basically all around the country,
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where we can educate them further in addition to what they're doing already
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as part of the day-to-day job.
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Education is important and it's having these conversations when you get out
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and when our suppliers get out to sites speaking to developers making sure they're
14:55
doing their job correctly so they're not going to have a property that's fully completed,
15:00
but the value is nil because they're not reaching uk standards obviously you
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can have building control involved you have the planning officers at the start
15:08
architects structural engineers who all specialize in their own work,
15:11
but as a warranty provider and an independent surveying company we provide that
15:17
additional layer of comfort,
15:19
to make sure everyone is doing their job correctly the knowledge that our technical
15:22
team have is very impressive to what they do i want to take a break and come
15:26
back and then talk about the uk.
15:29
Marketplace more generally and the impact of not building enough homes because
15:33
it does seem like we have this demand we have a supply situation is adding to a lot of
15:40
other economic challenges people with high rental income and people not being
15:44
able to get on the housing ladder.
15:46
And I just would like to get your perspective on that because it seems to have
15:50
a social impact. It's got an economic impact.
15:53
And at the heart of British society has always been about owning your own home.
15:57
That seems to be a lot harder these days. So today we're talking housing.
16:01
We're talking with ABC Warranty.
16:03
Been interesting, really interesting to understand what they do.
16:06
We're with Adele and we're with Mark. We'll take a break and we'll be back in
16:09
a couple of minutes time.
16:11
You're listening to The Late Late Lunch Show. Back to the Garden Childcare,
16:16
where little explorers grow naturally.
16:19
Listening to the Late Late Lunch Show on Radio Alty, supported by our friends
16:22
from Back to the Garden Childcare.
16:24
And today we're talking about housing and we're going to turn now to a little
16:31
bit about social housing because we've been with the guys from ABC Warranty.
16:36
And Adele, I'm probably showing my age here, but.
16:42
I belong to a time when there was always more, the term social housing meant
16:50
that it was a house that was provided maybe by the council or a corporation and you rented it.
16:57
And it was for people whose incomes couldn't match the mortgage values or needed
17:03
some sort of, if you like, comfort break from that.
17:08
Now, then we went through, you'll know this better than me, the 80s where mortgages
17:12
became more affordable and everybody was invited to buy their own home and so many of us did.
17:18
But we now seem to be back at a place that's in between those two situations
17:24
where, yes, people want to get on the property ladder, but we've still got a
17:27
lot of people who can't afford to get a mortgage, need social housing.
17:32
Is that a fair assessment of the marketplace, do you think?
17:35
I think it is, but I think it's also a little bit of a misconception that people
17:40
have around social housing. So social and affordable housing are two very different things.
17:46
So social housing is typically delivered by your councils who own land banks
17:54
and also by housing associations.
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And so you've got two categories there. So the social housing is social rent.
18:03
So if you look at it like that, social rent. Now the social rent is less expensive than affordable rent.
18:10
And affordable rent is where you've got a house which can be delivered,
18:15
again, either by a housing association, your local councils,
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or even in this case, a private developer.
18:23
And if it's owned or been developed by a private developer the reason for that
18:27
because obviously the profit margins are very low when you're building affordable
18:32
homes just like it is when you're building social homes,
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so when you're when the developer is building the affordable homes it's still got to be,
18:41
a sustainable profit margin in there for them to do that but the reason why
18:45
you see these private developers having to build these homes is because it's
18:49
part of what's called section 106 which is a planning permission,
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and what what happens is let's say mr developer is coming along and he wants
18:58
to build 10 10 homes no tell i let's say 100 homes,
19:03
and your local planning authority will say well that's fine mr developer will
19:06
let you do that but actually we want at least 30 of those to be affordable homes,
19:12
and affordable homes will be very different depending on in terms of that definition
19:17
where you live in the country because an affordable home for someone like me
19:22
living here in the area we live you know
19:24
just outside the greater manchester area will mean something very different
19:28
to someone else that lives,
19:31
in birmingham you know and it's based not just on the local house values but
19:35
it's also based on the typical average income and what's affordable to you.
19:41
So where you've got the houses in the likes of Cheshire and London and your
19:46
more wealthier regions, then obviously the cost of buying an affordable home
19:51
there, again, doesn't necessarily mean that you can afford to buy that house.
19:55
It just means they should be made more affordable.
19:58
And the rent for the affordable homes, so the affordable rent element of that,
20:05
can be up to 80% of your general private homes that are being developed by luxury
20:12
developers, for example.
20:14
But it can be up to 80% of those costs. So you do get it at slightly,
20:18
more affordable by about up to 20%, cheaper rates than what you'd normally get
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if you're going on the likes of Rightmove and you're looking to purchase a property
20:26
that wasn't built under the category of an affordable home.
20:30
Does that make sense? It does. And then this is where we almost have mixed,
20:35
I'm going to say mixed use, but that's probably the wrong definition.
20:37
But some of the developments will be different sizes of housing,
20:41
different styles of housing, so that you get that balance between affordable
20:45
and market value housing, if you like.
20:48
That's right. I mean, even today, I think currently, there's about 165,000 children,
20:54
that are in temporary accommodation. That's today. And that's because there
20:58
isn't enough affordable houses to rent.
21:02
So that itself is quite shocking, isn't it? It is.
21:05
So even before we come to social housing, which would be at a lower rental price,
21:11
even with the affordable category, we've got a huge gap.
21:15
And those will be people who are working, but maybe their salaries don't allow
21:19
them to get into the entry-level mortgage rates or whatever it happens to be.
21:25
Correct. Yeah. And then I guess the question is, whose responsibility is it
21:31
to build social housing?
21:33
Because it feels like the councils and the government has handed housing over
21:39
to the private sector to a large degree, although they may be taking some of that back.
21:43
So unless they're prepared to build more houses themselves.
21:49
It doesn't seem like the market economics would demand somebody to build social
21:54
housing, which would be at a lower value, I guess, to them.
22:00
Yeah, so the government have just released, you may or may not have heard on
22:04
the news, the first wave of a total amount of, so,
22:09
the bigger picture is £39 billion is going to be injected into the UK housing
22:15
market from Homes England.
22:17
So that's the government and their incentives. And £9.58 billion of that has
22:23
already been allocated in this first tranche of that £39 billion.
22:27
And from that, we've got, well, the UK have got to build 73,600 houses from that £9.58 billion.
22:36
And if you do the maths, I've done it for you, it's about £130,000 a house to build.
22:45
So you've got, and from that allocation of the 73,600 homes that have to be
22:52
delivered with that amount of money.
22:55
Two-thirds of that are going towards social housing,
22:59
so social housing will cost less has to cost less than £130,000 per unit to
23:05
build because the rest is going to have to be relied upon by developers to deliver
23:11
the rest of those affordable homes,
23:14
so they've got to make a little bit of money otherwise they're out of business
23:17
right and we've got no sustainability no one's going to be able to be around
23:21
in the UK to be able to deliver those sustainably.
23:26
So is it therefore that that proposition isn't actually attractive to builders?
23:31
So, you know, it doesn't have the right economics associated with it.
23:36
Correct. And I think that's why the government have allocated all of that 9.58
23:41
billion so far, that first tranche of money, has already been allocated to only
23:45
33 strategic partners around the UK.
23:50
And that consists of really good financially viable developers and local housing
23:57
authorities and some councils.
24:00
The majority of those target regions as well for that regeneration,
24:03
Those new properties are going to be in the northeast of England,
24:08
Liverpool, Greater Manchester,
24:11
the West Midlands, and the south and west of Yorkshire.
24:16
So they're the first tranche of targeted deliverables for growth in these properties.
24:22
And that will be under the guidance of local authorities, councils like Greater
24:27
Manchester, for example, to initiate and to manage?
24:31
Yeah they're trying to put more of the decision making into each mayoral's
24:37
constituency in terms of what they can and can't do and yeah because at the
24:41
end of the day it's um you know your local authorities themselves have to deliver
24:45
they've all got their own allocation of new housing stock every year that they've got to deliver on,
24:50
but this just gives that little bit more control and oversight to the mayors
24:53
to be able to decide and and perhaps even oversee where where the And Del, can.
25:00
I just ask,
25:03
is it the fact that the win-win here, I guess, is that when you are,
25:09
developing these houses at a social or affordable level, that you are creating
25:16
jobs and the demand for skills that then,
25:20
gets people in to the industry and then creates a workforce that can actually
25:26
build other homes. in the future as well.
25:30
Yeah, you know, I think it's, I think we started this interview talking about
25:35
all the different aspects of.
25:39
All of the other types of careers and jobs within the UK that has a touch point to construction.
25:46
Now, that can be someone that works for a glazing company, so any of your building
25:51
materials, to pouring cement, to your architects from structural engineers,
25:58
planning, your local councils,
26:02
energy providers and assessors, insurers, mortgage lenders, conveyancers, estate agents.
26:08
So, so many different professions that are all in this web of construction,
26:14
you know, and so that's why actually,
26:17
you'll see throughout history that when the UK goes into a recession or it has
26:22
done historically, construction, the construction sector always should and must be,
26:28
and it always has been, the last to suffer but the first to recover because
26:32
there is so much other infrastructure within the UK that,
26:35
That is touching the construction industry one way or another.
26:40
And what has struck me over the last week, or it's been reinforced at Dell, is that.
26:49
When you get a property, and I was speaking to some, there's a guy I know in
26:55
Manchester who's recently got into an apartment and some form of social housing.
27:01
And the security that gives you and the confidence that gives you then to move on from there.
27:09
We can take that for granted, but it's really, really important.
27:12
Housing is really important for our esteem and even just to be a good society in some ways, isn't it?
27:22
Well, it's good for education, peace of mind, your health, your well-being,
27:25
the independence. It's not just to provide a safe haven from the weather.
27:31
You know, there's a lot more involved, but yeah. Yeah, indeed.
27:35
We're going to take another break. I'm going to wrap up with the guys from ABC
27:38
Warranty, Adele and Mark, and we'll wrap this topic up today.
27:44
We'll be back in a couple of minutes' time.
27:47
You're listening to The Late Late Lunch Show. Back to the garden childcare,
27:51
where little explorers grow naturally.
27:54
You're listening to Radio Aldi, The Late Late Lunch Show, and today I've been
27:57
delighted to be speaking with Adele and Mark from Radio Aldi's sponsors,
28:03
ABC Warranty, a company based here in the area with a nationwide footprint.
28:08
Adele, I mean, just coming back to your company just for a moment.
28:13
I've always thought that Altrincham is a town with lots of hidden little pockets
28:19
or gems of entrepreneurialism of industry etc and your company,
28:25
is one of those because you play an important part in the UK building industry,
28:31
and you can do it from here but you're nationwide it must give you quite,
28:35
a sense of satisfaction to see you growing and having such an impact across
28:40
the country? I guess so. Yeah.
28:43
I don't take compliments lightly, so thank you, Rod. It's, you know,
28:47
you wake up in the morning, you have got a really big important job to do and
28:52
it's important that you deliver because not only are we overseeing all these properties.
28:56
But actually, if we did a bad job and we insured a lot of bad risks,
29:02
then our insurer wouldn't allow us to operate.
29:05
Yes. In addition to that, we've got lots of heavy regulation.
29:08
So we're regulated by the FCA, the Financial Conduct Authority.
29:12
We're the only warranty provider in the UK that's RICS registered with the Royal
29:16
Institution of Chartered Building Surveyors.
29:19
And we've got our own consumer code with trading standards. So they also come
29:23
in and do regular audits to ensure that, you know, the code is fit for purpose
29:28
and that it's actually helping future homeowners and existing homeowners.
29:32
So, yeah, there's a lot of regulation. So every day there's always something to do.
29:38
And at the end of the day, the policy's got to be, it's got to work and do what it says on the tin.
29:42
So, you know, you will get claims coming through the door because that's what the policy's there for.
29:48
And it's the law of a number of averages. Like, you know, if you're certifying
29:53
hundreds and hundreds of properties monthly, thousands, tens of thousands yearly,
29:59
you're going to have a few claims that come through because that's the whole purpose of it.
30:02
It's a percentage claim. Absolutely. And we know that it's there and it does its job.
30:08
And at the end of the day, it's your biggest investment potentially that anyone
30:11
will ever take out in the UK. You'll invest in the bricks and mortar of your own home.
30:16
And more often than not, you've got a mortgage for 25-plus years.
30:21
So we're protecting your investment. Yeah.
30:25
And coming back to the government for just a minute,
30:29
do you think it's going to be useful that we now have a Prime Minister who has
30:34
been closer to the heart of communities, closer to some of the social issues since that time?
30:41
And housing is a big social topic.
30:46
I mean, as a business, are you feeling that that's a good move?
30:52
It's a great move. I mean, Andy Burnham's already masterminded the charity A
30:57
Bed for a Night, which shows his commitment, and that was many years ago,
31:00
towards the homeless in and around the greater Manchester area.
31:04
So everything he's done so far since he's been in power is a complete tick in the box for me.
31:10
And I'm sure, you know, the majority of the UK are thinking exactly the same.
31:15
It's coming with a completely different mindset.
31:18
He's ripped up the rulebook and he's coming up with fresh ideas, which is what we need.
31:22
And Mark, can I ask you about the UK building industry? Because I always think
31:27
that we have one of the best building industries in the world.
31:31
People look at the Germans, for example, as well.
31:34
But we do build good buildings, don't we?
31:39
And not only that, I think we build exciting buildings, but we can also build
31:44
affordable, socially supportive, but technically strong buildings, I guess.
31:51
Absolutely. As I've touched upon, there's so many different ways we can build
31:55
properties and the UK are at the forefront.
31:58
And I think what helps with the UK building industry is we are looking to look
32:02
abroad and bring over new ideas that could add to our already fantastic construction industry,
32:09
looking at new ways that they're building in Eastern Europe,
32:12
looking at Scandinavia and the type of houses they're building in that area.
32:17
There's some really exciting opportunities that the UK are now taking advantage
32:22
of to build affordably but also securely.
32:28
And it's important that the UK and the government regulations keep up to date
32:33
so we can look at building these affordable homes,
32:38
perhaps differently to the way they used to be built during the initial wave
32:42
of building these affordable housing.
32:45
You can look at cheaper ways, but equally as good properties.
32:48
And that's why, again, it's important that we've got all these regulations in
32:51
place to ensure that they follow the criteria needed.
32:55
Yeah, and I guess it's like anything, the technology that gets used in very,
32:59
very expensive homes, like expensive cars, like expensive lives,
33:02
it passes down through the food chain at some point and can be a benefit to.
33:08
A socially built home or whatever.
33:10
The innovation that you see can only be good for the housing sector overall.
33:16
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It's exciting times.
33:20
I am. I'm waiting for the house where I walk in and you're probably,
33:24
you're too young to remember this, Mark, but it's like, it's like,
33:28
what was it called? What was the space?
33:30
Blake Seven. You might remember that one, Dale.
33:33
And you can come in and you can speak, you can speak to your house computer
33:38
and you can say, you know, turn on the oven, turn on the whatever.
33:43
And I'm waiting for that moment where I have, I have that, that technology.
33:49
You can do that. There's an app on your phone if you buy any Mele product.
33:55
While you're in the office, you can be turning on your oven.
33:57
No excuses, right? There is.
34:00
And actually, I think this type of thing could allow more people to live in their houses longer,
34:07
by themselves, not need to go into homes, but so that they can be at home longer
34:13
and their families can help them remotely. Do you know what I mean?
34:18
Yeah, well, Part M for disability and disability access is, you know,
34:24
all of these new building regulations that are coming into force every couple of years.
34:29
I mean, Part M has been there for many years, but that's just one example of
34:34
being able to stay in your home for a lot longer.
34:36
All new homes have to comply with part-time which means you know whether you're
34:40
disabled or not in in terms of a physical disability not being able to enter
34:45
your home properly without assistance,
34:48
that means that you've actually got a level entrance which is future-proof for
34:53
any wheelchairs for example you know so it's that forward planning and thinking that actually,
34:59
yes I am fit and able today who knows what's around the corner and I could be
35:03
you know incapacitated at any point in time in my life.
35:06
No one knows when that may or may not happen. So to future prove your home and
35:09
the design in that way, you know, that definitely helps you to stay there for a lot longer.
35:14
Building control, we've not talked about that, Rod. Go on then. Yes, please.
35:19
Building control is another big reason why there's a lack of construction in
35:24
the UK right now, because we don't have enough building control officers.
35:29
That since a year or so ago, when the the government quite rightly,
35:35
made building control officers have to retrain and be qualified and raise their
35:41
standards and be accountable under what's called the consumer duty and the duty holder.
35:47
So, you know, we've got all those things going on all the time,
35:50
but because the majority of, I would say, the average building control officer
35:55
were of average age, in their typically 40s, 50s, a lot of them didn't want to retrain.
36:00
You know, they thought they were too long in the tooth, they've been doing this
36:03
job too long if i have to retrain now you know forget it i'm off i'm going to do something else,
36:08
and so we've got a huge shortage in the uk at the minute of building control
36:12
officers so that's definitely an area that our youngsters should be.
36:17
You know encouraged to go towards yes i mean there's this tell,
36:22
i actually think we need to rethink about the whole pipeline from education
36:26
through this industry because you know there there are jobs out there that
36:30
we moved away from that are skilled jobs that can attract a very very good wage
36:37
and and it's highly in demand and we we've got it we've got a gap there and
36:42
and you just picked out you know building control typically used to be done
36:46
by guys who were a bit older had been through the process etc,
36:50
they're retiring often earlier because they have good pensions there's a gap in the market there.
36:55
Huge gap all right well it's been a pleasure speaking to you guys i could speak
37:00
all day i love housing i have to say good way,
37:03
well we'll maybe find another topic to speak about so today my guests have been
37:08
Adele Reid and Mark Gidson from ABC Warranty thank you very much indeed guys,
37:14
thanks thank you very much,
37:15
this is the Late Late Lunch Show with Rod Maxwell supported by,
37:22
Tower Bird Learning in Nature's Playground.