Latest / Towing News Now / Towing Tales: Training, Legal Battles, and Memorable Moments

Transcript

Towing Tales: Training, Legal Battles, and Memorable Moments · Towing News Now

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome one and all to the American Towing Recovery Institute podcast.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Remember this is your podcast to promote safety, education, positive public relations and networking within the professional and business-minded towing and recovery industry.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I'm your co-host, dj Harrington, better known as the Tow Doctor, and my other host is Wes Wilburn, over 40-year towing industry veteran, the founder of American Towing Recovery Institute of Fayetteville, north Carolina.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: He has produced and conducted training and certification programs for leading towing companies, equipment distributors, towing associations, dot, fire departments, rescue, as well as military installations across the United States.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Wes has been published over 100 times in major towing publications published over 100 times in major towing publications.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Wes has developed many courses, including the most recent awareness-level course for all responders that specialize in electric vehicles as well as hybrid, natural gas and hydrogen vehicles.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Wes has provided insight as the main speaker for over 30 years at more than 900 training classes and has been recognized as one of America's greatest towing trainers.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: He is well known for his straightforward but down-to-earth teaching style.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: No-transcript.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Without further ado, here's my dear friend and a great guy for our industry, wes Wilber.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Well, dj, as always, you're too kind with your words.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: I definitely appreciate the kind words.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: I'm happy to be here today.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Just got back from St Louis Getting ready for the fourth Going up into the Aronof Valley in Virginia this weekend to do a one-day for a talent company up there Two talent companies working together.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: They got that trip program so they have to have a continuing education session once per year.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Several of the companies up in that way have chosen our organization to provide that.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: So we're going up there to do a one-day heavy duty this Sunday, which is about the time this thing will drop.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: If you're one of those faithful listeners that listen to this thing, drop.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: We appreciate all listeners, but we definitely appreciate those ones.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: There's a whole group of them that, right when they drop, they're listening.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: We appreciate you.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: This's a whole group of them right when they drop their list and we appreciate you.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Sorry, this was a day or so late.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: It was on my part.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: I did a good job with some of my audio equipment.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: I've got to get better equipment and use it.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: So that's one of the things we're committed to as we move forward is to get better audio equipment.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: On my side I had some and then we didn't like it and we'd get some other stuff and never got to it.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: You know how that goes.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: But, dj, we had a real great class in St Louis.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: We had I think it was about 30-ish for the Friday night free electric vehicle class.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Saturday for heavy duty, I think we had 32 students, holy moly.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Sunday we had 37.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Cardinal Towing that group out there, that's one of the consolidators, the group in eastern Missouri, cardinal Bolin A&A.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: They consolidated a bunch of the St Louis area companies and going bigger.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: They hosted the class and they knocked it out of the park.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: They had a gold gym across the street that went out of business right as the pandemic came.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: The property's been basically sitting vacant so they rented the gold gym so we had a nice place for air conditioning.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: We did the track and trailer rollover and the car rollovers right out the parking lot.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: It was all there right near the towing company, but kind of out of the way.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: And boy, they did a great job with hospitality.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: They said it's great friday, saturday and sunday and make sure you have something to drink.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Uh, purpose record sponsored all that.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: The crew from cardinal to handle all the details.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Not only uh with the food, but they handled everything with helping me with the hands-on and their light duty is department has basically adopted our training word for word and some of their trainers were out there helping me with the size of the group and whatnot, helping JT and they helped turn the hands on and DJ, I can't tell you how good it is to hear people preaching and believing the same thing we believe and passing it on to the next generation.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: It was really a great weekend out there.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: We've got some big stuff planned with these folks the next generation.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: It was really a great weekend out there.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: We got some big stuff planned with these folks for next year.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: We've also been real busy getting dates set up for this year July.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: We're going to be home for the 4th.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: I hope everybody enjoys the 4th of July, celebrate with their family Middle of July.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: We'll be in Lexington, south Carolina, on July 18th for a free electric vehicle class and then we got the train recovery up in Madgeo.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: There's a few seats left.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: If you plan on getting in, get in, because everybody that says they're getting in gets in.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: The class is going to be oversold, so if you want to attend that class, go ahead and reserve your seat.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: That's August 2nd and 3rd, madgeo train recovery at Mad Joe's.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: It's choo-choo trains, like working with railroad cars and stuff.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: For more information you go to our website.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I'll give you that at the end.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Also, september, the 7th and the 8th weekend after Labor Day, we're working with the Rhode Island Towing Association for light and medium class.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: I'm very seldom in the Northeast, very seldom light and medium classes.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: There's a special discount for members of the association up there, the Rhode Island Towing Association, and I think they're going to extend that to other surrounding associations.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: So if you want more information on that one you're going to have to call Adam Branch 401-248-1600.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: That's area code 401-248-1600.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: That's for the light and medium up in Rhode Island.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: September 20th through the 22nd we're going to be in Lynchburg, virginia.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: We're going to do a Friday night.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: We're going to do an electric vehicle class for free that the Beeline Towing's going to host it.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Saturday and Sunday we're doing a heavy duty, tow and recovery with some rotator hosted by Beeline Towing.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: They've been friends of mine for years.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: They're already working on door prizes, getting a dinner sponsored Saturday night.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: They already got lunches sponsored.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: They're really doing it, going all out with the thing, dj yeah that's first class too.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm serious.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: You're 90 days out of whatever.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: We are 60 days out.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Already got meals lined up, worried about doing an extra meal for dinner time and door prizes.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: You know that's going to be a hot deal.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Then two weeks later, beginning of October, we'll be out in Oregon but that is a private class and on October 18th we'll be at Woffe Hotel in Lake Station, new York.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: So, October 19th we'll be doing a free electric vehicle class for firefighters, intel and operators, dot, police officers All are welcome.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: It's a free class sponsored by the EV-Cover app.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: It's going to be the Lake Station Firehouse, lake Station, indiana.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Saturday.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Sunday we'll be there doing a two-day heavy-duty tone and telly with some rotator class.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: So that's going to be on October 19th and 20th and then we'll be in Kansas November 1st, 2nd and 3rd and we also have a fire tower cross training in Southern South Carolina in November.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: For all the details, go to our website, wwwamtowriorg, or call our office 910-747-9000.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Well, dj, that's all.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: I got for this week, other than we've got a great guest.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: I'm going to ask everybody to hang around and we'll be right back after the break for a wonderful guest today.
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: The EV Clever app is an app created for all responders and emergency service personnel.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: The EV Clever app is the only app containing easy to navigate, quick links to access manufacturer suggested instructions for emergency situations dealing with electric and alternative fuel vehicles while on the side of the road.
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: That includes hybrid, fully electric fuel cell, compressed natural gas and hydrogen buses and heavy trucks.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: These quick links are a convenient way to access information quickly.
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: To date, we have a total of 789 passenger vehicles, over 181 heavy-duty trucks, and adding more every day, thanks to our research team.
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: You can go to evclevercom and use the code PODCAST2024, get a free 30-day trial and then after that you get 20% off.
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: Information in this podcast is made possible by generous sponsorship from Henry's Wrecker, serving the community with quality towing and recovery for over 40 years.
• 9:51
  Speaker 5: Henryswreckercom.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Welcome back listeners.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Of course you know you're listening to the American Towing Recovery Institute podcast with Wes Wilburn, ej Harrington, the tow doctor.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Every week we do our best to bring you informative episodes like this one here.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: You're going to love our guests.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Make sure you download and listen.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: We're available on Spotify, itunes, andorra, stitcher, iheartmedia, amazon or wherever you get your podcasts.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Amazon or wherever you get your podcast, wes.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Without further ado, introduce our guest to a fantastic audience of excess of 14,000 listeners.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Go ahead, my man.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Thank you, dj very proud to have Michael McGovern from the McGovern Law Firm out of Tennessee with us today.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Michael's been around this industry for decades, raised up in it.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Michael, would you introduce yourself to our group and some of the folks know who you are, but some probably don't know your background.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Would you give us a little bit of introduction and background please?
• 10:55
  Speaker 6: Sure, wes, I'd be happy to.
• 10:57
  Speaker 6: And congratulations to you and DJ on this podcast.
• 11:00
  Speaker 6: I know it's very popular, I've enjoyed listening to it from time to time and you guys are doing just a fantastic job for the industry.
• 11:07
  Speaker 6: And people ask me to introduce myself and I'm still, to this day, confused.
• 11:14
  Speaker 6: I don't know whether to introduce myself as a tow operator or a lawyer, because I feel like I'm both.
• 11:23
  Speaker 6: I grew up in a garage, a repair garage in Knoxville, tennessee.
• 11:30
  Speaker 6: I didn't grow up in a garage, but that was my dad's business and I feel like I spent most of my time there.
• 11:35
  Speaker 6: I did the typical garage oil changes, tune-ups, know this, all the standard stuff.
• 11:45
  Speaker 6: Uh, did some motor overhauls and I thought I was a grease monkey.
• 11:49
  Speaker 6: I grew up in a garage from the time.
• 11:51
  Speaker 6: Uh, well, I'll tell you how small it was when the, when the cars used to go up on the, on the rack, on the hydraulic lift, I used to grab onto the bumper and then I'd jump off when it got to the top.
• 12:03
  Speaker 6: So that's how small I was.
• 12:04
  Speaker 6: But and then, uh, my dad got into the towing business, probably when I was in high school, and I started to drive tow trucks, you know, for the family business, and it was family, just like so many of your listeners.
• 12:18
  Speaker 6: My mom dispatched, my sister did bookkeeping, my other sister worked part-time there, and so it was a family affair, like so many.
• 12:27
  Speaker 6: This was in the 70s yeah, this was back in the 70s when you had, um, you know the old mechanical drive winches and you know tow bars, not wheel, this is before wheel lifts and car carriers and all that.
• 12:41
  Speaker 6: So, uh, that's when it was hard.
• 12:43
  Speaker 6: That was when it was hard to work west.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: You remember that yes, I do, I do and uh.
• 12:49
  Speaker 6: so anyway, my dad was a good businessman and the business expanded and and uh he went from one uh homes uh 480 on a c30 chevrolet to uh to a fleet of 30, 30 tow trucks, including the first rotator uh in the state of Tennessee and maybe the southeast.
• 13:07
  Speaker 6: So I've got a really good background in the towing industry.
• 13:11
  Speaker 6: We did police towing, we did private property towing from the University of Tennessee, which was a big part of our business, and we grew to, you know.
• 13:21
  Speaker 6: Finally the business was sold.
• 13:24
  Speaker 6: Grew to, you know, to the.
• 13:28
  Speaker 6: Finally the business was sold.
• 13:29
  Speaker 6: They were part of the road, one project back in the nineties that we won't go on, we won't go into here today.
• 13:34
  Speaker 6: But and then I wound up going to to to law school and I, you know you know pass the bar and got my license to practice and I was going to do some other things.
• 13:45
  Speaker 6: But I just got so many calls from towers uh that knew me and uh.
• 13:50
  Speaker 6: I wound up doing a lot of work in the towing industry and eventually I was hired as the attorney for the national tow truck association in the.
• 13:57
  Speaker 6: In the 1980s I went uh, spent uh about 12 years as uh uh executive director and general counsel for TRA, the Tolerant Recovery Association of America.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: And Michael, just let me clarify for some of our listeners who don't know that was the first national association, correct?
• 14:17
  Speaker 6: That's correct.
• 14:18
  Speaker 6: Yeah, traa was founded in 1979, and I took over in 1982.
• 14:27
  Speaker 6: It was just a baby association when I got involved in it and I'm pretty proud of the work that I did there.
• 14:34
  Speaker 6: We developed the association into a recognizable industry group.
• 14:40
  Speaker 6: We opened an office in Washington DC as a lawyer.
• 14:44
  Speaker 6: I did some lobbying on some issues back then and pretty proud of that.
• 14:49
  Speaker 6: Some of the things we accomplished.
• 14:50
  Speaker 6: Membership grew and then eventually I went back into private practice in sometime in the mid-90s.
• 15:01
  Speaker 6: Uh, I've been in back in private practice since, uh, since the mid-90s and uh, pretty much uh, at least 60 70 percent of my practice involves towing issues.
• 15:14
  Speaker 6: I represent towing companies all across the united states, uh, over over the many years in the thousands probably, and not all those is a major case, but I've helped, you know, thousands of towers over the years and get calls every day from somebody that you know needs some help on an issue with law enforcement or collecting a rollover bill or many odd matters.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Let me ask you a question there, if you don't mind.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: What was a common call for help from the towing industry years ago when you started doing private practice representing them?
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: What's a common call today?
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Are some of them the same or have they changed greatly over the years?
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Give us a little insight on that, if you would please.
• 16:04
  Speaker 6: Yeah, initially it used to be a lot to do with law enforcement.
• 16:08
  Speaker 6: Uh, towing either a toer was you know had been kicked off a rotation lift for some alleged wrongdoing, or it was a new guy and he was trying to get on the tow list and they wouldn't let him on the rotation list or wouldn't let him bid the contract.
• 16:25
  Speaker 6: So a lot of it was law enforcement related and there's a lot of issues involved in that contract law, constitutional law.
• 16:34
  Speaker 6: Sometimes a tow operator's due process would be violated.
• 16:37
  Speaker 6: I litigated a lot of those cases.
• 16:39
  Speaker 6: One of them went to the Supreme Court.
• 16:42
  Speaker 6: Some of your listeners may be familiar with that case.
• 16:45
  Speaker 6: It was a big deal back in the early 90s when it went.
• 16:50
  Speaker 6: Jack Graziano got a big O'Hare's towing many people are familiar with.
• 16:56
  Speaker 6: O'hare towing in Chicago was removed from a tow list from a little town outside Chicago because he refused to contribute to the mayor's campaign.
• 17:07
  Speaker 6: He was supporting somebody else.
• 17:09
  Speaker 6: The mayor kicked him off the toe list and there was a line of cases that said that an employer cannot discharge an employee for participating in political activities.
• 17:27
  Speaker 6: But the law had never said that an independent contractor couldn't be terminated based on political speech or political preferences.
• 17:36
  Speaker 6: So that's what that case was all about is does that law, you know, where you can't discriminate against somebody for their political practices?
• 17:42
  Speaker 6: Does it apply to independent contractors?
• 17:45
  Speaker 6: And that in the Jack Graziano case, the O'Hare towing case was the one that went to the Supreme Court that decided, yes, indeed, that that the protection against political retaliation applies to independent contractors and in the, in the legal world, that was a big deal.
• 18:00
  Speaker 6: I mean, it was a big deal.
• 18:02
  Speaker 6: I know it was a big deal in towing, but it was a big deal in all aspects.
• 18:10
  Speaker 6: And that case today is cited by lawyers and courts and I was proud to be a part of that case.
• 18:14
  Speaker 6: That was typical of the kind of things that I dealt with.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: You verbally argued not just word and grace, but you verbally argued with the Supreme Court case, didn't you?
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: If I remember correctly?
• 18:26
  Speaker 6: That's correct, yes, and that was.
• 18:32
  Speaker 6: You know, it's only like less than 1% of lawyers ever get an opportunity to go before the Supreme Court and to say that was a thrill is an understatement.
• 18:40
  Speaker 6: And to win even better is an understatement.
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: And to win even better.
• 18:44
  Speaker 6: So that was a big part of what I did.
• 18:46
  Speaker 6: But to answer your question, to further answer your question, that's less and less Over the years a lot of jurisdictions have changed their ways.
• 18:59
  Speaker 6: The rotation lists are still common in smaller jurisdictions, but a lot of towns and major cities have changed to contracts or they've gone to zones or they've gone to procurement systems that don't involve so much controversy.
• 19:11
  Speaker 6: So it's not you know that part of my practice has really declined the disputes with law enforcement, and that's a good thing.
• 19:22
  Speaker 6: I'm glad to see that law enforcement and towers are, for the most part, getting along okay.
• 19:26
  Speaker 6: There's a few cases, but not like it used to be.
• 19:29
  Speaker 6: The bigger issues today are, I'd say one of the top things today is rollover bills and insurance companies not paying their bills, and that's's we hear that all the time all over the country.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: That is definitely a high button issue it is and and it it.
• 19:51
  Speaker 6: uh, I don't want to give a legal lecture here on your podcast, but there's Feel free to offer it, but I'll tell you what.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: What we need to do is take a quick break and we'll dive into the subject after the break, and that's all right.
• 20:08
  Speaker 6: Great with me.
• 20:13
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• 21:20
  Speaker 5: That's 910-747-9000.
• 21:22
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• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Welcome back listeners.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Of course you know this is the American Towing Recovery Institute podcast, wes Wilburn and the tow doctor, dj Harrington, remember.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: If you like to hear people like Mike McGovern, who really knows this industry, by all means dial our hotline number here at the podcast studio, 706-409-5603.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: And Wes and I will do our very best to get that industry expert on this podcast to help your business grow.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Wes, I'll turn it over to you because Mike McGovern is one very intelligent man, absolutely.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: First of all, it's an absolute thrill to have you on here with us, mike On the board of directors with Toe Times Magazine, only towing lawyer inducted into the Towing Hall of Fame.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Now you've done a lot for the industry for years and years helping towers, so it is an honor to have you on here.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Before we end this conversation, I want to revisit TRA and the postage stamp.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: You know that's always a great interest of mine, but we're going to go to what we talked about first, with what the current thing you're dealing with is uh, no, company's not getting paid, boy.
• 22:41
  Speaker 6: I hear that all the time, so I'm gonna kick the floor right back to you and tell us about that yeah, and I'll kind of be brief about this we, you know you might want to do a whole podcast on that issue, but uh, um, you know, know, back in my day when I was doing rollovers, a $10,000 rollover bill was that was the top, that was about as high as you could go without getting in some trouble with your law enforcement agencies.
• 23:09
  Speaker 6: And now and it's not wrong, it's just the cost of operation and cost of equipment and insurance and whatnot has gone up that these bills are now, you know, 30, 40, 50, 60.
• 23:21
  Speaker 6: I've seen six-figure tow bills that are reasonable under the circumstances.
• 23:27
  Speaker 6: And couple that with the fact that there's a lot of these kind of fly-by-night trucking companies out there that are running with liability-only insurance.
• 23:38
  Speaker 6: They've got no collision, they've got no towing insurance and you know.
• 23:42
  Speaker 6: So they roll over a load of, you know, pineapples and they pretty much walk away.
• 23:47
  Speaker 6: You know they got a beat-up old Freightliner that is not worth anything because it's now wrecked, and they got a.
• 23:54
  Speaker 6: You know the load and trailer is not theirs to start with and so, you know they just basically walk around and, you know, wipe their hands of it.
• 24:03
  Speaker 6: And so these towers are having a hard time collecting these bills because there's only liability insurance on the truck.
• 24:09
  Speaker 6: And these liability companies are fighting saying, well, that's not what we insured him for.
• 24:16
  Speaker 6: We insured him if he was to hit somebody or cause some property damage.
• 24:20
  Speaker 6: And there's no.
• 24:20
  Speaker 6: Nobody got hit, nobody got it, nobody got personally injured and there's no property damage.
• 24:25
  Speaker 6: But the courts have have, over the years, have come around to believing or holding that the blocking the roadway it constitutes property damage.
• 24:37
  Speaker 6: And they're and they're beginning to hold these insurance companies feet to the fire and tell them blocking the roadway, it constitutes property damage.
• 24:40
  Speaker 6: And they're beginning to hold these insurance companies' feet to the fire and tell them you've got to pay this record man, because even though nobody was hit, it's a single vehicle rollover, the road was blocked or there was gas leaking or whatever.
• 24:51
  Speaker 6: The road had to be cleared and we consider that to be property damage and it's payable under the liability policy.
• 24:58
  Speaker 6: But apparently that word hadn't gotten around to a lot of these insurance companies and more will deny those claims than will pay them these days and unfortunately what I see is they're hoodwinking the tow companies because a lot of tow companies don't know what I just told you and hopefully now they do.
• 25:21
  Speaker 6: But even if they do get stonewalled by a liability insurance company, they really don't know how to pursue it.
• 25:26
  Speaker 6: They don't know how to deal with it, they don't know how to make a demand or go to court and all that kind of thing, and a lot of them just say oh to heck with it, I'm just going to eat this one.
• 25:35
  Speaker 6: And that's a shame, that's a crime.
• 25:36
  Speaker 6: They shouldn't have to do that.
• 25:38
  Speaker 6: I hope there's some legislation to correct this.
• 25:42
  Speaker 6: And I'll tell you real quick.
• 25:50
  Speaker 6: I'll tell you one thing that'll bring these liability insurance companies around is if the tow operators can get their attorney's fees paid on top of the bill.
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: As it is now, if a tow company wants to go collect a $30,000 bill, he's going to have to get a lawyer and pay him a third, and then he's only got $20,000.
• 26:06
  Speaker 6: So he's not complete, he's not made whole, as lawyers like to say.
• 26:10
  Speaker 6: It'd be nice to have laws that say, if an insurance company doesn't pay when they should and a tow company has to sue, they get their attorney's fees on top.
• 26:18
  Speaker 6: So the tow operator gets his full $30,000 and there's another $10,000 for the lawyer.
• 26:23
  Speaker 6: So I'm just making those numbers up, but I think that would go a long way towards getting these insurance companies to pay if they knew that there was a penalty at the end of the day for not paying.
• 26:36
  Speaker 6: As it is, they just sit on their hands and a lot of tow companies just go away and, like I said, it's a crime and it needs to be dealt with legislatively and through the courts.
• 26:50
  Speaker 6: So we're working on that.
• 26:51
  Speaker 6: It's a big issue right now.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: So is that an area that you're able to help sometimes with Is that they can access liability policy.
• 27:01
  Speaker 6: That's something that yeah, our offices, we, you know I'm not licensed in all 50 states but I have relationships with with lawyers across the country and I help towards.
• 27:13
  Speaker 6: I mean, just this morning we were working on a case out of Arizona where you know same fact, pattern rollover single.
• 27:24
  Speaker 6: You know one truck operation out of California and they just walked away.
• 27:29
  Speaker 6: So we're working with them now and I'm confident we're going to get that bill collected.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: So we work with lawyers all over.
• 27:43
  Speaker 6: So if someone wants to get in touch with you, how do they get in touch with you?
• 27:47
  Speaker 6: Well, I've got an email.
• 27:48
  Speaker 6: It's probably the best way because I'm not always in the office.
• 27:49
  Speaker 6: My first email is my first name, michael, just common spelling M-I-C-H-A-E-L.
• 27:54
  Speaker 6: At themcgovernlawfirmcom that's T-H-E and my last name, mcgovern, m-c-g-o-v-e-r-n.
• 28:03
  Speaker 6: Lawfirmcom.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: You still do speak at industry events and whatnot.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: You'll be at the Tennessee.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Toe Show and have some of both, I understand, coming up.
• 28:15
  Speaker 6: That's correct.
• 28:16
  Speaker 6: I'll be at the Tennessee Toe Show in.
• 28:19
  Speaker 6: Help me, is it September?
• 28:22
  Speaker 6: I think it's September.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: It's September, like third weekend, 23rd, 25th, something like that.
• 28:28
  Speaker 6: And then the Towing and Recovery Management Summit, which is just business seminars.
• 28:34
  Speaker 6: It's not a tow show, it's a management summit and that's in Fort Lauderdale in October.
• 28:46
  Speaker 6: I'll be speaking down there too about regulation, about rate regulation, which is another big topic today.
• 28:55
  Speaker 6: Which is another big topic today All these a lot of news stories about predatory towing and outrageous price gouging on private property, tows and surcharges and extra add-on fees and administrative fees and that's a big topic.
• 29:14
  Speaker 6: Now in a lot of states, state legislatures are starting to address that and pass legislation where they're proposing regulation.
• 29:26
  Speaker 6: So we're going to be talking about what you can and can't do in a regulated environment.
• 29:32
  Speaker 6: It's, you know, I'll tell you.
• 29:37
  Speaker 6: I get a lot of people complain about, you know, rate regulations or any kind of regulation, mostly on private property in pounds, and they say look, we're not ripping people off.
• 29:46
  Speaker 6: You know, I'm a good guy, I charge a fair price, I don't price gouge, I don't abuse.
• 29:51
  Speaker 6: I don't abuse car owners and treat them poorly and rudely and leave them stranded.
• 29:56
  Speaker 6: He said I'm not that guy.
• 29:57
  Speaker 6: So why should I have to suffer because of these jerks that are out there, you know, ripping people off and being crude and being difficult, and why should I suffer?
• 30:07
  Speaker 6: The only thing I can say is I never hijacked a plane in my life.
• 30:13
  Speaker 6: I never hijacked a plane.
• 30:16
  Speaker 6: I know there was a handful of guys that did and did some bad things, but I still have to go through x-ray machines and I still have to take my shoes off and I still have to take my laptop out of my briefcase because of those guys.
• 30:29
  Speaker 6: So you know, sometimes the masses have to suffer because of the actions of a few bad apples and fortunately that's what's happening to the towing industry.
• 30:43
  Speaker 6: Ninety-nine percent are honest, hardworking, fair, reasonably priced towing companies.
• 30:48
  Speaker 6: You got one percent out there that gets all the press, gets all the bad news and does all the bad things.
• 30:55
  Speaker 6: And you know next thing, you know they have to, you know, come forth with some kind of regulations, regulations on their conduct, regulations on their prices.
• 31:03
  Speaker 6: Mainly that's in the private, you know, property impound segment.
• 31:07
  Speaker 6: That's where most of the abuses come in.
• 31:10
  Speaker 6: And I say that as a tow operator.
• 31:13
  Speaker 6: I know they're out there, I see them, I see the abuses that happen and there's just no excuse for some of the things that are being done out there.
• 31:20
  Speaker 6: And so you've got state legislatures.
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: People are demanding regulation and there's oh my gosh, uh, you know, there's bills pending in, I'd say, probably 25 states right now to regulate private property towing, including rates.
• 31:36
  Speaker 6: And that's what got that's what has most tours in an up towing including rates, and that's what has most towers in an uproar is regulating rates.
• 31:42
  Speaker 6: And it's not necessarily something to be afraid of.
• 31:44
  Speaker 6: I mean because if rate making is done properly, and when I mean properly, I mean like in a public utility setting.
• 31:55
  Speaker 6: You may even see a rate increase if it's done properly.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: If it's done properly and they look at all the factors, you would see a rate increase.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: I believe I've been a big fan of that, but the whole problem is getting it done properly, as we both know.
• 32:09
  Speaker 6: That's the key.
• 32:10
  Speaker 6: You're absolutely right.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: A study that really analyzes all the facts in the equation.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: It's the best interest of the towing industry.
• 32:22
  Speaker 6: There's a bill pending in North Carolina right now to regulate the private property impound companies.
• 32:27
  Speaker 6: And I was in a meeting recently and it just says they're going to create a commission to regulate towing prices.
• 32:35
  Speaker 6: And that's all it says.
• 32:37
  Speaker 6: And I asked the question to the legislator.
• 32:40
  Speaker 6: I said what's the methodology?
• 32:41
  Speaker 6: And they went what do you mean?
• 32:43
  Speaker 6: I said well, how's this commission?
• 32:45
  Speaker 6: It says they're going to set rates.
• 32:46
  Speaker 6: How are they going to do it?
• 32:47
  Speaker 6: You haven't given them any guidance and they were kind of befuddled.
• 32:50
  Speaker 6: They were like well, they're just going to set rates.
• 32:52
  Speaker 6: I said how?
• 32:53
  Speaker 6: I said I think it's important that you direct them to use a public utility rate making process, not just throw darts at a dartboard.
• 33:03
  Speaker 6: And unfortunately, a lot of jurisdictions that regulate tow rates they average the rates or they just have a feel that this should be enough.
• 33:13
  Speaker 6: I've heard city council members say, well, that should be enough.
• 33:16
  Speaker 6: They'll say, well, let's set the rate.
• 33:18
  Speaker 6: Well, what do you want to set it at?
• 33:18
  Speaker 6: Let's set it at well, that should be enough.
• 33:19
  Speaker 6: You know they'll say well, let's set the rate.
• 33:19
  Speaker 6: Well, what do you want to set it at?
• 33:20
  Speaker 6: Eh, let's set it at $50.
• 33:21
  Speaker 6: That should be enough.
• 33:22
  Speaker 6: That's not the way you set rates.
• 33:24
  Speaker 6: But if it's done properly, you know, rate regulation is really nothing to be afraid of.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Especially with keeping in mind paying employees living wages and things like that.
• 33:36
  Speaker 5: It's nothing to be afraid of.
• 33:40
  Speaker 6: It will work in most cases in the toer's favor.
• 33:42
  Speaker 6: Historically that's proven to be true In those jurisdictions that have real proper rate regulations, like Massachusetts and Louisiana.
• 33:52
  Speaker 6: The toer's quite happy with it.
• 33:54
  Speaker 6: They have a process where they can go get an increase if their costs increase.
• 33:59
  Speaker 6: If their insurance, fuel taxes go up, equipment costs go up, they can petition for an increase in the rate and if they justify it they get it by law.
• 34:09
  Speaker 6: You have to.
• 34:10
  Speaker 6: If it's justified by law, they have to give it to them.
• 34:13
  Speaker 6: I've always said rate regulation is nothing to be afraid of if it's done properly.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Absolutely so real quick, before we go.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: You were executive director of TRA when the Postal Service dedicated the stamp.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: You know the stamp's always been a soft spot with me.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: We collect all that art and we actually did a bunch of it in an auction at the New York Toe Show recently and found a little bit of it on our website, et cetera.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Tell us a little bit about your point of view for the stamp.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: You were right there where it all happened.
• 34:47
  Speaker 6: Yeah, actually I went out to Tucson, arizona.
• 34:50
  Speaker 6: I was invited by the Postal Service to come out there and be there for the introduction of the new postage stamp.
• 34:57
  Speaker 6: That was 1987.
• 34:58
  Speaker 6: And I tell you, Wes, I didn't realize what a big deal it was.
• 35:03
  Speaker 6: I really didn't when I got out there.
• 35:05
  Speaker 6: I didn't realize how the first day issuance of a new postage stamp is a big deal.
• 35:11
  Speaker 6: I mean, it's a ceremony.
• 35:12
  Speaker 6: They bring in dignitaries, they bring in the artists, the one that drew the stamp, and I was honored to be on the stage with the postmaster general and it was a, it was quite the uh, the ordeal.
• 35:25
  Speaker 6: And I gave us, I gave a speech and I gave a little speech and, and I remember, um, I remember I wrote this speech out actually in the hotel room the night before and, uh, and I had it all written out, but I added something at the very end, just off the cuff, uh, and there's a video of it somewhere um and I, the stamp was 8.5 cents, it was a bulk, it was a bulk rate stamp, it wasn't.
• 35:51
  Speaker 6: And I remember, at the end of my speech, I was just about to sit down and I said, I said you know folks, I said this is a.
• 35:58
  Speaker 6: It is an auditorium full of people and I said you know, I know this stamp is an 8.5 cent stamp, I said, but to the towing industry it looks like a million bucks.
• 36:06
  Speaker 6: And, uh, everybody that you know that I think that was well received.
• 36:11
  Speaker 6: But it was a great, um, a great experience to be out there and it was my privilege to represent the towing industry at that event.
• 36:21
  Speaker 6: I will tell you a little something, wes, I don't know that I've ever told you this before, but sometime later I started going online on eBay and auction places to buy up some things that had to do with the tow truck stamp.
• 36:37
  Speaker 6: There was some guy that kept bidding against me and I'd bid like five dollars on you know one of these covers or whatever, and this guy would jack it up to six, then I'd go to seven, then he'd go to 10 and I'd go to 15.
• 36:52
  Speaker 6: I said, who is this guy?
• 36:54
  Speaker 6: And it was always the same guy that was trying to outbid me.
• 36:57
  Speaker 6: Sometimes he did, sometimes he didn't.
• 36:58
  Speaker 6: It wasn't until later I realized it was you.
• 36:58
  Speaker 6: Oh, same guy that was trying to outbid me.
• 36:59
  Speaker 6: Sometimes he did, sometimes he didn't.
• 36:59
  Speaker 6: It wasn't until later I realized it was you oh my goodness did I ever tell you that?
• 37:04
  Speaker 6: no, I don't believe he did yeah, he used to bid against me on that stuff and I, I uh early days of eating a boy if it had something to do with the tow truck.
• 37:14
  Speaker 6: I wanted it yeah, well, you, you, you got me a lot of times.
• 37:17
  Speaker 6: You paid a lot of money for some of those things and I was like you can have it and I don't know, the name wasn't Wes, it didn't have your, whatever your name, your bidding name was, it wasn't one that I recognized, but somehow I finally realized it was you and then I think I quit bidding at that point.
• 37:34
  Speaker 6: But and I still have a uh, I still have quite a collection of memorabilia from that event that I need to uh put together and and uh take to the take to the museum.
• 37:45
  Speaker 6: I've got a lot of um.
• 37:47
  Speaker 6: I've got some, you know, a lot of first day issues that I picked up there.
• 37:51
  Speaker 6: I've got I've got the sign program where every everybody that participated signed the program.
• 37:56
  Speaker 6: I've got some really good stuff that I need to put together and take to the museum.
• 38:02
  Speaker 6: I'll do that sometime this year.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: I know they would appreciate it.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: That's a great story.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you one more.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: Ernie Vald Jr and myself excuse me, ernie Vald Sr myself had the same experience on eBay.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: A little bit as well, so don't be mad about that, I'm sorry, go ahead.
• 38:23
  Speaker 6: No, I'm glad it was you.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: Yep, thank you.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Thank you for a great interview.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: I appreciate all the information.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: We're going to do some panel discussions and one of the things we talked about was this price, and we actually talked some with one of our last guests, so I'll be reaching back out to you to get you involved in more of these podcasts, but I really appreciate you giving us the time you've given us today and I look forward to having you back as a guest soon.
• 38:48
  Speaker 6: Well, I appreciate you reaching out to me.
• 38:49
  Speaker 6: Again, I congratulate you and I thank you for the work that you're doing for the industry and have been doing for years.
• 38:55
  Speaker 6: Dj, you too.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: And I'd be happy to participate in the future.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Thank you, mike.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: All the listeners be safe out there.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: We'll see you next time.