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#86 - Angela McCaffrey's Masterclass on Navigating the Mortgage Maze · Only Fee-Only

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: How's it going everyone?
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Only Fee Only podcast and, as always, thanks for being here.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: After a week off from the podcast, we are back.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Last week I was down in Miami visiting Peter and that was an absolute blast.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: What an awesome city and a great time.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: But we are back and we are talking to Angela McCaffrey today, who is a mortgage and debt advisor at American Pacific Mortgage, and we really thought this would be a great conversation for everybody to be able to listen to, as one of the biggest things that your clients go through is purchasing a house.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: So she really has an awesome approach and, I think, really empowers her clients with financial literacy and helping them understand when is the right time to buy a house.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: You know when should you just be renting, what is the time horizon that you should be looking to buy if you're in blank situation.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: So she really has a different approach to that and I appreciate it, because there's a lot of people that can tend to feel salesy and like they're just trying to make money off of you, and that is not at all the vibe that you get from Angela.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: So I will let her tell the rest of her story.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Here is Angela McCaffrey on the Only Fee, only podcast.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: What's up everyone.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Welcome to another episode of the Only Fee Only podcast.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: I'm Peter Travalo.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: I'm here with my co-host, brock Buckles.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: How's it going today, brock?
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: It's good to be here with you.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Pete, how are you, man?
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Doing well, doing well.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: I'm very excited to have Angela McCaffrey on from American Pacific Mortgage.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I'm really looking forward to having a discussion today around mortgages and personal finance and the beautiful blend that occurs when purchasing or refinancing a house.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: So, angela, welcome to the show.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: Thank you, I'm happy to be here.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Perfect.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: So many people.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: They're familiar kind of with what a mortgage broker does.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: But do you want to give a quick overview kind of what makes you different and what your main value add is?
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say that the biggest difference is it's important to me to kind of take clients beyond the eligibility which is what they do qualify for and educate them and support them to help them navigate to what is actually suitable for them.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: So just because you can qualify for a certain purchase price or a certain payment doesn't in any way mean that's the right thing for them, and so it's really important to me to help my clients have the education to be able to decide that on their own.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: You know it's not my job to tell them to get a loan or what loan to get.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: In my opinion.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: It's my job to tell them what options are available to them and then help support them and really making an educated decision around that.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: So where does the conversation really start with the client?
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: You know, because I feel like with mortgages, everyone, they always talk about the rate, the rate, the rate, when really what really matters is the monthly payment.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: So I mean, let's just kind of start with where your philosophies just sit around mortgages and there's a lot of rules of thumb you should have X times income or budgeting.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: But just starting at the top, like what do you see?
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: And where does the conversation start?
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: Well, I, of course interest rate is an important part.
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: Sometimes I like to dive into why interest rates matter though.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: So a lot of times people care about interest rates because of how it affects their monthly life, you know.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: So at the end of the day, if the rates are higher, that means you have less money left in the bank at the end of the day.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: If the rates are higher, that means you have less money left in the bank at the end of the month, and a lot of times that's what actually matters.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: People aren't staring at that interest rate every single day, having some personal opinion about it.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: What they care about is what money is left over to pay off debt, meet other goals or just kind of give them more sense of security.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: So one of my favorite questions to people asking about interest rates is if I could give you the lowest rate out there, what could that make possible for you and to me?
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: The reason I love that question is because I like to address kind of the house and the home portion of it when I'm having conversations with people.
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: So the house is, you know, the tax advantages and the all the finances and numbers around it, but then there's the home, which is the security and safety and where your memories are made and all of the kind of more emotional side of things.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: So I love that question because it helps you kind of pull out the emotions around it, like emotionally what's really important to them, of pull out the emotions around it, like emotionally what's really important to them, and also the number side of things.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: So well, I want a low rate because I want to make sure I can pay for this mortgage if something happens.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: Or I want a low rate because this is a really big dollar amount that I'm borrowing and I need to feel good that I'm making a good financial decision.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: So I think maybe kind of stepping back from the interest rate and going that direction, then the client's really able to share with me what their actual fears are, goals and whatnot, and that lets me navigate the conversation more appropriately for their situation.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that makes complete sense, right?
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: A lot of the financial planners that we've had on the podcast and anytime you get on social media and you kind of look around, it's the same philosophy when it comes to finance.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Right, like the numbers might suggest that you do this right, but how do those numbers actually make you feel and how is that going to dictate what's on your mind all of the time, right?
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: And so it's not all about the numbers, right, it's about the house versus the home and, yeah, that makes complete sense.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: I think that's a really good analogy and way to kind of explain it.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Taking a step back, how did you get into the mortgage industry and did you think you were going to get into the mortgage industry?
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: So I, straight out of college, actually started as a financial professional.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: So I feel like I was gifted with a lot of basic knowledge around finances and risk management and compound interest and diversification and a lot of things that most adults never ever learn.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: So I feel like I was kind of gifted that knowledge and my journey took me out of that industry and about 10 years later ended up leading me into the mortgage industry.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: And my mom actually did this for about 35, 40 years and offered, when I graduated college, for me to take over her business and I said thanks, no, thanks, I'm not a masochist, I don't want anything to do with that crazy, crazy business you're in, even though I really did love the difference that she made in a lot of people's lives.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: So I was sad to say no to that.
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: But I was happy to say no to you know the fact that so many things affect the industry and rates and things are changing every single day.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: But, long story short, I ended up circling back around.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: So I ended up working with somebody she used to share an assistant with, completely by mistake.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: So that was a fun conversation, but I was really lucky.
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: Early on I was on a couple of teams where they were very, very high producers.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: So very early on I got to see kind of how well-oiled machines worked, right and wrong, a lot of different experiences and conversations and loan situations.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: But when I moved over to doing my own business, supporting my own clients, and actually having those pre-qualification conversations, I started to get really concerned about the fact that the certifications, the training, the laws, everything that we're really talked about and the things we're told to focus on, all just have to do with telling a client what they can do.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: And, as you guys both know, there's a really big difference quite often between what somebody can do and really what's in their best interest.
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: So eligibility is what's available to you, but suitability is really.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: How does this loan affect your life?
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: How does it affect your short and long term goals?
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: You know, maybe we don't want to consider putting 20% down.
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: Maybe there's other goals that putting less down helps you to like meet sooner than later.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: Let's make sure you have emergency funds, like can you sleep at the end of the month when this money comes out of your account?
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: Money comes out of your account.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: Let's help you be happy successful homeowners, and just talking to somebody about what they qualify for is not going to help people get there and it's not going to help them make educated decisions or when they're not feeling great about that monthly mortgage payment coming out of their account, if you've at least helped educate them and help them to navigate the process, they might not love that but hopefully they're going to have, you know, awareness of, okay, this hurts, but we walked through this whole thing and I know why we made the decision that we made and it, you know, hopefully makes it hurt a little bit less or helps you have a plan for the future to maybe make it hurt less in the future.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, indirect way, but that's how I got here.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: Nice, yeah.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: So how do you shape that conversation?
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Because I feel, like most people, they always want to know what they qualify for at the maximum.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: But how do you kind of set the perspective and maybe say, hey, you know what there's, these other bills or other goals?
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Because I feel like a lot of people they associate you know, insurance agents and mortgage brokers, like everyone's just trying to sell you as much as humanly possible.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: But like, how are you shaping that conversation to say, hey, like this is actually you know what would work for your budget?
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, I mean, at the end of the day, it's very much a discovery conversation.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: So if a client truly just wants the lowest rate and they want me to give them an answer in 10 minutes, I'm not going to be the right person for them because I don't know what's right for them.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: So they might be eligible for all the loan products out there, but if I don't have time to have a bigger conversation with them, I can't comfortably answer that question for them.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: I joke that the good news is there's a million different ways to do a loan, but the bad news is there's a million different ways to do a loan.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: And so I try to encourage people to be willing to have some possibly uncomfortable conversations around their overall financial picture and their short and long-term goals, because at the end of the day, of course I have to identify what they're actually eligible for.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: Of course I need to get the loan application and the income documents and whatnot.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: That's always going to be a part of the process.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: But I do my best to also back up a little bit and help people consider their emotions around it and, you know, identify.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: How are you going to feel when the balance in your savings account has gone down drastically.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: Like let's make sure that you're educated and you're making confident decisions around how you choose to manage your you know your real estate, borrowing debt, all that repaying debt, and so there's a lot of different ways to have those conversations.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: It's honestly very different for a lot of people based on are they coming in and they have a financial advisor?
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: Have they already had a lot of these discussions and are they giving me a very thoughtful, educated idea on what their budget is and what their down payment is?
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: Or did they just go on Zillow and they found a home that they think looks great and there was a calculator on there and they did the math and they think they could probably pay that payment?
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: So it really, in a lot of ways, depends on where they are.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: So I do my best to kind of slowly meet them where they are and kind of one of my favorite questions as far as you know why they're coming to me, what they want to talk about, what we should focus on first is if we only can accomplish one thing together.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: We can accomplish a lot of things together, but in order for me to figure out if I'm going to be the right person for you.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: We can only do one thing together.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: What would that thing be?
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: And that, I feel like, sometimes simplifies it a lot.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: So if they're like, well, you know, I just need to focus on buying a home, or well, I really want to make sure that I can afford this mortgage, you know and it also helps me understand are they coming at it from more of an emotional or financial standpoint.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: A lot of times if you kind of just keep asking the same question, it changes, the answer changes.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: Or just asking them, if we could get you the lowest rate, if we could help you put the least amount down, what could those things make possible for you?
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: And so if you kind of remove away the rate and the fee conversation although of course that's very important A lot of times that helps you get down to the you know, the deeper part of things, to make sure that we're really not ignoring or not addressing something important that they deserve to have discussed or the questions they deserve to have answered, so that they can make that confident decision.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah for sure.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: From a psychological perspective, I'm always curious too, because obviously there are some things that come up when you're talking about applying for a mortgage.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Right, Like your income and your debt to income ratio, and things that people might be like yeah, we want to buy a house, but this is kind of uncomfortable for me to talk about, or it doesn't necessarily feel good.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Or you know, I haven't done a great job with managing credit card debt, but now I want to buy a house.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: So, like, what is it like when you're kind of having those conversations?
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: And then how do you try to deescalate, to help them feel more, you know, confident in what they have going on?
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: And even if they can't get it, maybe maybe give them some coaching steps moving forward so that they could get that home sooner than they thought.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Maybe they'd be able to.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: Excellent question.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: One thing that's really important to me is to help people understand that if they've struggled, if they haven't had these conversations, if they don't know the answers or if they're really embarrassed about the answers, you know, a lot of our money stories are developed by the age of seven.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: So I talk to people a lot where they're just like really uncomfortable even if they're doing well, like even if their credit's great and they have savings and they have good income, like I've talked to those people where they're still really uncomfortable making decisions around their mortgage, and so I like to help them understand that, like our education around finances in this country, it's terrible and it's not your fault if you're uncomfortable with this.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: It's not your fault if your credit isn't great.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: Of course, like the algorithms and things that are constantly changing around how credit is calculated, of course most of us are struggling on it.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: So I do my best to try to, you know, take the shame and the embarrassment out of it.
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: I think that making it a little bit more casual and not responding, you know like oh, wow, that's, you know, not great, or you know being very solution oriented like this, you know or you know, being very solution oriented like this.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: You know this.
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: There's ways to address this, there's ways to fix this.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: That's really helpful, and I also feel like trying to make sure to find some things to celebrate, though, if maybe they don't have savings and their credit's not great.
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: You know what Good news is like?
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: We've met, we're talking now and we're going to get you some direction and support and guidance so that we can really turn this around for you, so that you can be in a better situation and, honestly, if you had already had those things, you would be in a different position.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: This isn't your fault, and so trying to navigate that, I mean, it's a stressful thing.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: Money is stressful.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: Making decisions around your largest transaction, your largest debt it's an stressful thing.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: Money's stressful.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: Making decisions around your largest transaction, your largest debt, like it's a.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: It's a intense thing.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: So I'm kind of unofficial therapist first and then yeah we can talk about.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: It's more of a holistic approach, right, like you're not, I I have, we've definitely peter peter could say this too.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, we've definitely known people to where it's just.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: It is a transactional relationship, right, and anybody that's been around for any length of time and met with professionals you know, and even if you're not doing your mortgage with them and they're like, send clients my way, it's pretty easy to pick up on.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Like if you're just that person, it's gonna be like oh yeah, crest core is not there.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Hit me up when you've got more money and you can actually do this.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Right, right, versus someone that's going to sit them down and like they're going to come back to you and be like Angela, thank you so much.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Like we appreciate what you actually helped us do to move forward, and if we wouldn't have talked to you two years ago, we wouldn't be in the position to have our dream home and actually be in a place to be able to afford it and be comfortable in that decision today.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah Well, and the relationship piece is my favorite part about this.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: So you know, most mortgage professionals get you to the closing table, hopefully, but then they consider their job done there and for me, I personally know there's a lot of support and education and advice I can bring to clients after the closing.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of ways that you can adjust your repayment strategy without needing to refinance.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: You know there's a lot of big decisions that happen that can affect your future financing, and if you don't have somebody there to help guide you through those things, my least favorite conversations are the I wish I had known that.
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: Like oh man, I wish I had known before I went to be self-employed, that like now I can't get a regular you know conventional loan for two years.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: Or oh, I wish I had known that.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: That like medical expense popped up on my credit.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: Now my credit's shot, and so it's important to me to help clients understand that.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: You know there's a lot of decisions around being a successful homeowner, but most of them happen after closing and I'm here to support them with that.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: So I do my best to do annual reviews and make sure that we're trying to avoid some of those I wish I had knowns.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: And the other thing that I encourage people to do is give themselves the gift of time, and there are a lot of emotions around educating yourself and making decisions around mortgages and how you manage your real estate.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: And not only does time give you time to kind of emotionally process that, but it also gives you the time to like make little adjustments.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: So most people come to me and they're like let's go, let's buy, and I'm like, whoa, this is one of your largest transactions ever.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: Like let's take a minute.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: You know, let's give yourself some time.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: But often like, oh, my lease is ending in a month or you know, my house is already listed.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: So there are a lot of times we don't have that time.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: But you know if I love talking to clients who are years out from buying, because that means we get to make those decisions and actually like take the time.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: So, ok, this payment is going to be a thousand dollars more than what you're paying.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: Okay, this payment is going to be $1,000 more than what you're paying.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: How about you start treating your housing expenses $1,000 more and, on a monthly basis, put that into your down payment or your emergency funds or whatever.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: Put that into a different account and see how you feel and see if this is really something you can navigate and or it might take some adjusting.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: But do you want to adjust after closing?
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: Do you want to say no to Starbucks and they're cranky and nobody wants to be around you and like?
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: or do you want to like?
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Maybe you know, inch up to that, so yeah.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: So in a perfect world I'd love to talk to people beforehand, but unfortunately that's just not how my industry works very often that people need to be thinking about, because I mean, unfortunately, with the mortgage industry and even like in insurance, it's just price, price, price, price.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Rate, rate, rate, you know, but what are some like real factors?
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: And for those people who you know, not that they question the value of a mortgage broker, but you know, where do you really come in as the professional to just separate yourself, to make sure that you know it come in as the professional, to just separate yourself, to make sure that you know it's more than just placing a rate and a mortgage.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: So that is a great question and it's one I'm constantly trying to navigate better.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: It's really hard to help people understand like the future money I'm going to save them, especially first time homebuyer.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: And so at the end of the day, like I, do my best to establish trust and educate people to where you know, if, unfortunately, we never talk again, hopefully they leave knowing something and being more kind of equipped to make big decisions.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: But making those decisions after closing can truly make or break your experience around being a homeowner and so.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, whether you're a first time home buyer or not, me telling you that doesn't apply a dollar amount in your brain to you know it's going to cost an extra 20 bucks or a hundred bucks or whatever to work with me, because I'm not a computer system who literally offers you the lowest rate, because they're literally just going to tell you what you qualify for and never talk to you again.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: It's hard because people try to compare the two and it's like there's a bigger conversation we're having here.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: There's a lot more time and conversations we're going to have.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: I've invested a lot of time into my resources and my education and I do not have the lowest rates out there.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: I have very competitive rates, but there will always be somebody with a lower rate out there.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: But at the end of the day your interest rate isn't the end.
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: All be all to the cost of your mortgage and helping you make good decisions around it, and so it's something.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: It's a battle I'm never going to always win, but I'm not just selling somebody an interest rate and just selling them a mortgage.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: I'm providing a service to advise them, and if I can't get that through to somebody, I'm not the right person for them, and that's okay If they know these things and they can navigate these things on their own or they have people around them to help navigate that sure.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: That sounds familiar with insurance carriers, isn't it, Pete?
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: The cheapest is always the best.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, but it's hard and, like I said, I can't put a dollar amount on.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: In two years we're going to have this conversation and you're going to navigate it differently, in a way that really is more suitable for you, and it's going to save you a lot of headache and money.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: I can't project that and so at the end of the day, you know, people just have to trust their gut, and if I can be quiet and listen and help people feel like heard and protected and supported, hopefully that helps them follow through, even if they get a rate that's a little bit lower.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: But you know, people also refinance every three to five years.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: So when they take forever and they're going to go with the rate cause it's like slightly less expensive, and then they're refinancing in a year, um, and they're making decisions twice around mortgages without me, that can be scary, but, um, you know there's a lot of people out there who I can help, so it's just kind of it's not the right fit.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: I got to move on and focus on the next guy it's all good.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: If it's not the right fit, no problem, right yeah, there's a lot of people out there for me to talk to, so yeah, no, there are some other, like you know, examples of, like you know, wish they knew beforehand.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: Like you know, I feel like a lot of people.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: They want to always act and probably even try to act to be their own mortgage broker.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: We run across it A lot of people they think are an insurance agent.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: Well, I think there's a lot of misconceptions out there, there's a lot of news out there that's very scary, and people make rushed decisions or they make decisions based on potentially outdated information.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: For me, in a perfect world, all of my clients would have kind of their power team around them, their dream team, to help advise them If they have a good financial advisor, a good insurance provider, a good realtor, a good estate planner and so on, and we could all come together maybe, you know, maybe once or twice a year, because most of us need to know the same things.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: We need to know what did or didn't change around their income and their goals and whatnot.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: And so I feel like in a perfect world, we could help everybody identify who they need, who that right person is, and then we're all coming to the table to give them recommendations.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: That's not the world we live in.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: It's a world I'm striving to create in my own.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: You know, little bubble, but I feel like the beauty of having those advisors around you is to hopefully help limit the.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: I wish I had known conversations, because if they are the right people for you and you know how to kind of use them to the most capacity that you can.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: Hopefully you're talking to them before you make those decisions and not after the decisions are made.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: But if it is after the decisions are made, they might have recommendations on how to move best.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: But for me, you know I talk about the mortgage side of things but there's so much that, like financial providers can help people address that I am not qualified to handle and so I do my best.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: I know a little bit more than most of our lenders do around financial planning, but I in no way am an expert in that and I am not staying up on a daily basis on different solutions and whatnot.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: So I would encourage people to maybe investigate and I'm happy to help them.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: I try to encourage a lot of my clients to go through that process.
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: But find out what advisors are out there to support people in those conversations and then find the right ones for you and also reassess.
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: You know like your parents financial advisor might be amazing for them, but there's a really good chance.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Your parents are in a different financial place in their life and maybe that's not the best person for you.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: Parents are in a different financial place in their life and maybe that's not the best person for you.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: So I think, surrounding yourself with qualified people who care about you and want to support you and are willing to take the time to advise you, that will cut back on things.
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: If you are lucky enough and you've done the work to find that team, talk to them.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: It's really hard when they do something and then afterwards you're like, okay, we need to get your tax professional on the phone because we're going to have to do some creative things after the fact that I really wish we could have given you a different plan on.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: So that's one thing, and then the other is just checking in.
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: So, like I said, I don't want to just talk to clients when it's time for a mortgage.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: I want to hear from them in between, and that cuts back on the I wish I had knowns, because we're having those conversations preemptively.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah for sure.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: So I got one last one for you and this we see a lot of content being created on this, I'd say, on social media, and it's the age old debate of buy or rent.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: So like when you're talking to people and obviously that's a loaded question, right, but in what situations would somebody be sitting down with you and you're like, honestly, I can appreciate the fact that you want to buy, but you should probably continue renting for a while?
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: And then, on the other hand, I mean, if you guys want to buy, it looks like you're in a solid position to do that.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: Excellent question.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: It comes back to the whole like everybody's journey and where they are is very different, and it's also not my job to tell somebody whether they should buy or not or what kind of loan to get.
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: It's my job to know the options out there, to ask the right questions, to listen to their answers, ask a few more if needed, and then try to do my best to educate them so that they can make that decision.
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: I literally spent two and a half hours on the phone with a very lovely first time home buyer last night that one of my financial advisors introduced me to, and he qualifies all day long.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: But it's very expensive to buy a home right now.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: The interest rates are high, prices are high, you know.
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: So it's not the right thing for everybody, but you know a lot of times, if you're buying right now unless it's like an investment property that truly is going to make you money right off the bat if you're lucky enough to find that, buying in this market today needs to be a lot more about the security the safety, the not getting priced out of your neighborhood, the not having to move every two years, that type of thing and the financial benefits will come.
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: It just might be that it's going to wait until you can refinance a year at a lower rate, or until your appreciation has grown enough, or until whatever it is, and so it's really important to me to talk about both.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: But I also do my best to come in without any assumptions, and I know a lot of the advisors that I work with that introduce people to me to talk.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: They know that I have told people, based on all the things you shared with me, like buying right now, I feel like it's going to make you say no to more things that you really want to say yes to.
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: You know, and that's what I ended asking this lady last night is?
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: I said, okay, that's an extra 1000 bucks a month that you're paying, and you know, you feel like you have it, but you're not sure how you feel about it, and I was like so, instead of you know whether or not you can do it, I was like what does keeping that extra thousand dollars in your pocket let you say yes to, and what does taking it out of your pocket let you, you know, make you say no to?
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: And let's maybe look at it from that standpoint instead, or let's look at maybe in a year when you're competing with all the homeowners that are putting 40% down and you want to put 3% down.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: What your limitations are there?
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: So it's hard to navigate.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of things to look at, but I just do my best to kind of get them the information so that they can hopefully more confidently answer that question for themselves.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: I love your perspective and outlook on it.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Before we let you go, was there any kind of like golden nugget or something that you wanted to share on here for the audience?
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: Find your people.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: They're.
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: You know, adulting is hard.
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: It's so hard and it's changing all the time and there are a lot of really, really incredible advisors out there.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: And so, you know, finding your people that are the right fit for you, that you feel comfortable with, like having people to go talk to you about these questions, you know, can make such a difference in your life, and you don't have to be a millionaire with 10 homes to have an advisory board to help you navigate this.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: So I would just say find your people.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: It's so worth it.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: It's going to help you out so much better.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: It's going to make you feel more confident and make less adulting mistakes, if possible, much better.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: It's going to make you feel more confident and make less adulting mistakes if possible.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: And then also, hopefully, if you find those people, maybe they'll be willing to work together for you.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: So that would be, I guess, my second portion of that to really get the most out of the people that you find.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: For sure, for sure.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Well, one last thing where can people follow along or for advisors that are listening, how can they get ahold of you if they are interested in working with you or have questions about how to work with you regarding mortgages for?
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: their clients.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: So my website it's just easier to go there.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: I just changed companies again so I changed emails again and that whole fun experience.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: But my website is your home, can help you.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: All spelled out and so, if you want to go there, there's more information about how I work.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: There's free financial education.
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: There's free resources on there.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: There's a little bit more about the value and process I have with financial advisors, because a lot of them I actually do reviews with them.
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: So when they're doing their quarterly, annually, annual reviews, I'm plugging in to help support them in that and help them feel confident about how they're talking to clients about their mortgages and other debts and real estate.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: So if you want to go there and just poke around, text me, call me.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: You know all my information is on there.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Awesome, Angela.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming on today.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: It's been a pleasure Thanks.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: You bet Thanks.