Latest / Pod Therapy / #342: Hearing Voices, Distant Father Dying, Unrequited Love

Transcript

#342: Hearing Voices, Distant Father Dying, Unrequited Love · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Next week. It was a school shooting joke. Oh good, I'm glad.
• 0:04
  That's I'm glad. That's where you're going, right onto the ground,
• 0:13
  face full of dirt. I wasn't ready. He starts when it's time to
• 0:24
  end something, No, hold on away from the music. There you go.
• 0:27
  This episode has made possible for our therapy partner's Dirty b and Pickets.
• 0:31
  You're fabulous, Las Vegas, Nevada. This is pod therapy, real people,
• 0:34
  real problems, and real therapists. You can submit your questions anonymously.
• 0:38
  I pod therapy is on net or emails a pod therapy guys at gmail dot
• 0:41
  com. Uh broadcast from the Turn. That's Jim. I'm Whitney and that's
• 0:46
  Nick Signs of pod Therapy. So we have We've got Anna in the studio.
• 0:52
  Hi Yana. We're talking about the biathlon. Yeah, she is a
• 0:56
  proud biathlete and we support you and I just want you to know that this
• 1:00
  is a safe place I can sell from the flag. Jim has already forgotten
• 1:04
  what the biathlon is. Jim, what sports? But you have God,
• 1:10
  you have you've done some traveling. Yeah, yeah, because because you were
• 1:15
  in Italy when I talked to you. Yes, I got a bathon.
• 1:23
  Yeah, I'm sure made you really, Yes, thank you, but I'll
• 1:33
  take it. Cannot ski or fire a gun, but I'm sure he's the
• 1:36
  cause. When you're taking the gold, I hope that you thank him and
• 1:40
  God in that order. So, but give us this update. Obviously you're
• 1:45
  injured now, yes, but you were on Team us A last winters.
• 1:49
  Yeah, awesome. And so what's what's the game plan moving forward? Are
• 1:57
  you gonna, I mean, with this injury, you're gonna work through this
• 1:59
  a long back anner? Still, yeah, I have a little bit of
• 2:01
  ways to go. So I broke my knee and my ankle in a couple
• 2:06
  of places playing soccer a few weeks ago. Was it indoor, No,
• 2:09
  it's outdoor. Actually was on turf, which is kind of like my fun
• 2:14
  sport, like guilty pleasures. I felt really kind of not good after injuring
• 2:16
  myself in that. Did the team feel the coach? Uh? Yeah,
• 2:23
  I think my my coach was disappointed for me, you know, just like
• 2:27
  felt bad sympathy. But I think she's gonna help me work through it and
• 2:31
  awesome, it'll be it'll be all right. It's just it'll be a little
• 2:34
  tough, probably to try to qualify this winter, at least for the first
• 2:37
  trimester of the international racing. But hopefully by like December, I'll be feeling
• 2:43
  better again. And you were right, you said in the patreon the US
• 2:46
  has never won a medal in the biathlon. I know. It's that's the
• 2:49
  only the only Winter Olymic medal that the US hasn't won one end. Yeah,
• 2:52
  that's the only one according to my three second Google search. Yes,
• 2:55
  oh wow, God, I've never cared more about a team than I did.
• 3:00
  Only winter Olympic event in which that might never metal. Well, I
• 3:02
  want them to win this. It is one of the most fun sports to
• 3:06
  watch in the winter. This is the team. It's a lot of fun
• 3:08
  to watch the biathlon. That's what That's what the team needs is a little
• 3:13
  push from Pot. They need the pot therapy bump. And if we send
• 3:15
  them guns the official therapy podcast of the US Biathlons, we should send them
• 3:22
  part therapy logos as targets right now, all right, okay, I'm back
• 3:30
  here. A great idea. That's what they need. They need a D
• 3:34
  grade podcast to adopt them to. Yeah, can you sponsor the team?
• 3:39
  Can you do that? Oh yeah, we have sponsors, people accept and
• 3:44
  all that. Okay, oh one could could we do it? We don't
• 3:49
  know yet, we don't know their numbers. I mean, okay, we
• 3:53
  just send them ship. They might just wear it. We just finished paying
• 3:55
  off the I R S. Right, never mind, never mind, that's
• 4:00
  true. We're halfway till the next time, the next one. I've already
• 4:04
  started saving. I've got a little I R S pot. And for all
• 4:11
  of you that are thinking, wow, they make so much money that they
• 4:13
  have to pay a hefty tax, No, no, no, they're fines.
• 4:15
  We're not good at things like filing. So it turns out the government
• 4:20
  does not have a sense of humor about that ship. And uh yeah,
• 4:25
  apparently they're not listeners. Yeah, not all the cool ones. Anyway.
• 4:30
  Well, anna welcome. Thank you for your support throughout the years and for
• 4:33
  listening to us. We're glad that you're here, even though it took chaos
• 4:36
  and disorder to bring you to fabulous Las Vegas. How long are you in
• 4:40
  town? For a week? Okay, great, so just doing the family
• 4:44
  thing or have you you've been to Vegas? Oh yeah, families here?
• 4:47
  Do you have like a thing you've got to do? That's like your tourist
• 4:49
  thing. Usually little blagio. Okay, all right there, like to go
• 4:55
  to like a Cirk show usually okay. Yeah, my sister went so absence
• 5:00
  a couple months ago. Yeah, she enjoyed it. Of course. It
• 5:04
  is a good time. That's awesome. Yeah. The Blaggio I think is
• 5:08
  underrated. People don't talk enough about the Every time I walk by that bar,
• 5:12
  I think, oh us, yeah, look that's why it's still the
• 5:20
  gazing. Yeah. He saw me falling off a stool and was like,
• 5:24
  all right, I'm just gonna make a move and here we are. Yeah,
• 5:28
  something like that. Yeah, okay, seven years strong, fun talk
• 5:33
  yep. Oh, last random announcement before we get to questions. I owe
• 5:39
  Jacob a special thank you. Yeah, Jacob, I mean it checks out
• 5:44
  is responsible for my eighteenth anniversary gift to my wife. I hunted down the
• 5:49
  fucking textbook that Jacob suggested I do. Okay, this is going to different.
• 5:55
  We actually to start by re reminding Jacob it's a mold of Jacob's penis.
• 6:00
  No, that was the entire bit checks out. Yeah. So I
• 6:02
  had long ago told the story about how I got my first date with my
• 6:05
  wife because she was taking a class at the university that I already taken and
• 6:10
  she needed the book, and so she had asked around the friend group because
• 6:12
  they mad to have his book. And I was like, I do give
• 6:14
  it to you if you take me to coffee, and she was like all
• 6:15
  right. And so now we're married for eighteen years. And I told that
• 6:18
  story a long time ago, and Jacob was like, hey man, the
• 6:21
  obvious move at some point for an anniversary gift is find that fucking book.
• 6:27
  And I was like, oh my god, I wonder if I could.
• 6:29
  It took me months. I had to like go to the registrar, to
• 6:31
  the school library, to the music department. I shook every possible tree.
• 6:38
  I finally got this thing. And then it's really hard to find that version.
• 6:42
  It's just twenty years old. Just figure out what book it was was
• 6:45
  impossible. I finally figured out. Then I hunt down the internet finding hard.
• 6:49
  I'm sure. Yeah. Then I decided, okay, I got the
• 6:54
  book. There it is a second yeah. Yeah. I get a hold
• 6:59
  of the book and I did like a little presentation case, like you know,
• 7:01
  made it pretty to hang up and stuff. Then I thought, oh
• 7:04
  shit, I wonder if the author stole live he is. I got a
• 7:09
  hold of him and I was like, hey, man, your book like
• 7:12
  changed my life, like in this other way, like the what you wrote
• 7:15
  it for, but it was useful. And I was like, would would
• 7:18
  you be like able to write something in it for me? And he was
• 7:21
  like yeah, man, absolutely. So after he doesn't get hit up for
• 7:26
  uh uh the personalized autograph, I put my standard message and there, Yeah,
• 7:32
  anniversary, no problem man, No, but enjoyed physical science, so
• 7:40
  super sweet guy. And he wrote a little inscription and everything and and we
• 7:43
  just celebrated. So it was really cool. So thank you for the idea.
• 7:46
  So you gave it to her? I did. Yeah, So we
• 7:48
  just celebrated the anniversary yesterday. Did I get credit with the with your wife?
• 7:53
  I did? Yes. She knew because I stupidly the day that you
• 7:56
  had said it. I had come home that day and said, oh,
• 7:59
  Jacob thought that'd be a cool idea, and she was like, God,
• 8:00
  that would be a cool idea. I just you're an idiot. It was
• 8:05
  like, yeah, well something had to not work. Yeah, it was
• 8:11
  like a long time ago. It was probably a year ago that remember that
• 8:16
  I remember everything. It was a long time ago. So luckily it was
• 8:18
  not top of mine. So okay, so wouldn't you Whitney. Peter came
• 8:24
  up to you and was like, I somebody told me the greatest idea to
• 8:28
  get for you for a gift? Is that funny? Like, wow,
• 8:33
  it would have been I sure would have been surprised if you had done that
• 8:37
  would have been incredible. I imagine the look on her face when she opened
• 8:41
  it was like, oh, remember that Jacob said to do this right.
• 8:46
  The surprise was Jacob's penis was appreciated. She put it next to her other
• 8:50
  mold of do you want me to also do an inscription in the book?
• 8:54
  That would be great? Yeah, just an imprint my mushroom stamp of approval.
• 9:05
  And if you're thinking, wow, this show's really hit the ground,
• 9:07
  nope, go back in. Yeah no, this is the high road.
• 9:11
  And I didn't know. Yeah, no, it's the person you don't think
• 9:16
  it is. Is that one Patreon dot com slash therapy tune and over all
• 9:20
  the fun Well, welcome mana. We're excited to have you. Feel free
• 9:22
  to chime in whenever you damn well please. You know how the show walks.
• 9:26
  There's no order. We've got our great questions today. First one is
• 9:30
  an interesting one. I don't know that we've had its, like when to
• 9:33
  worry about auditory hallucinations? Hi, guys, my question is how many times
• 9:39
  slash how often do I need to hear voices to actually worry about it?
• 9:43
  Backstory A couple months ago, I'm a mid thirties female was extremely stressed out
• 9:48
  at work. While at home one night, I laid down with my head
• 9:50
  on my pillow and hurt a very distinct slowed down to try to get it
• 9:56
  right. No, I just fuck you. That's where we need to go
• 10:01
  at that. It's pellow. There's nothing wrong, and I'm saying it.
• 10:07
  It's fine. You're you're in. Say the word say the word p I
• 10:09
  L. I won't play your l pill and say the word o W.
• 10:13
  You don't work all the time in English, like say the word O W
• 10:20
  O. No, you know what, let's do yours? That ain't o
• 10:24
  w O W. Sorry, Oh h okay, but that ain't how it's
• 10:28
  spelled. Your stupid rules. I said the wrong thing. Say oh h
• 10:33
  oh, say p I L L pill put them together pill, oh good
• 10:37
  pill? Oh like that, Let's do it like that? I laid down
• 10:43
  with my head on my pill, oh, and heard a very distinct voice
• 10:48
  whisper in my ear I'm going to kill you. I knew immediately that it
• 10:52
  was a hallucination because the cats were in a different room. Good point,
• 10:58
  well solid largely you clearly weren't that bread. I'm sorry, what was that
• 11:03
  fluffing? So? I wasn't scared of the voice, but I was scared
• 11:07
  of the implications. Do I just attribute this, you know what? To
• 11:15
  pick up on something? I'm starting to ask some fucking questions here. Do
• 11:20
  I just attribute this to the stress and lack of sleep? Or should I
• 11:24
  seek out medical advice it hasn't recurred. Potential relevant family history. I have
• 11:30
  a sibling who sometimes hears voices, and the voices went away when they were
• 11:35
  prescribed an atypical antipsychotic kattiapine in this case off label for insomnia. No diagnosis
• 11:41
  of schizophrenia or related disorder to my knowledge, No mentions of hearing any voices
• 11:46
  in any of our family memoirs either. Thank you, anonymous. That was
• 11:54
  a weird thing to say at the end, like, well, you're family
• 11:58
  has memoirs, not all he was work capes writer. I fucking walked into
• 12:03
  all these you are you are my hero writer. Wow, whatever voices you're
• 12:09
  hearing, they're doing fine. Dude. I didn't even care like everything about
• 12:13
  you. I honestly at the end was like, that's so cool of their
• 12:18
  family as memoirs, Like that's am I saying that time? Yeah, I
• 12:24
  got the first time. Think I'm good at talking. It's one thing I'm
• 12:28
  known for. It's the talking. Auditory hallucination mild, sporadic, and I've
• 12:37
  been more worried if if the writer said that the cat said it, that
• 12:41
  would I would be more concerned if it was the cat. How often are
• 12:46
  they saying this time it wasn't the cat, and usually it is the cat.
• 12:48
  They just said, look, I know it wasn't the cat. Cats
• 12:52
  weren't there. I took it as a joke, but so I rememberer way
• 13:00
  way back when being in grad school. The the vibe around auditory hallucinations is
• 13:09
  that if they do it's a vibe, it's vibe or I don't want to
• 13:16
  say a rule because it's not a rule, but just with how they explain
• 13:18
  it to us. The professors that I worked with, they would say that
• 13:22
  if like anything, if it's not affecting your life in a negative way.
• 13:28
  And I tell clients this when they come in when I ask this question in
• 13:31
  our assessment, because that can be kind of an intimidating question to ask.
• 13:33
  And I imagine that somebody coming to see a therapist for the first time maybe
• 13:39
  is hesitant to admit to some of those things before you know, rapport is
• 13:43
  built. So I usually say something along the lines like, have you ever
• 13:48
  had any experience with auditory or visual hallucinations, delusions? Things like that?
• 13:54
  And if I feel like there's hesitation, I will talk about how how we're
• 13:58
  looking at how it's impacting their daily life. So what I will say is
• 14:01
  even if someone comes in is like, yeah, I have there's just a
• 14:05
  person right next to me here and they're talking to me all day long.
• 14:09
  They're like my imaginary friend. But you know, actually I hear them just
• 14:13
  like this, a voice outside of your head saying anything, right, my
• 14:18
  next question is going to be how does that affect you? And if they're
• 14:20
  like, oh, no, it's great, I love it. I still
• 14:22
  go to work, I still go to school, I have good family life,
• 14:26
  I have a partner, whatever else, if that's what they're into.
• 14:28
  So if it doesn't affect anything else, then I'm like, no, I'm
• 14:33
  glad you brought this up. It's been a long time, I think since
• 14:35
  we've talked about it. In the first couple of years of the show,
• 14:39
  a lot of the questions we would get would somehow ask about a diagnosis,
• 14:46
  and we would constantly have to remind the listeners we're an educational program. We're
• 14:50
  not providing a second opinion or anything like that, but we would also educate
• 14:52
  the listeners about the importance of clinically significant amount of distress as one of the
• 14:58
  criteria for all the diagnosed. It's been a long time since we've been able
• 15:01
  to say that again, and I'm really glad you brought it up that even
• 15:03
  with something like this, we're still looking for a clinically significant amount of distress,
• 15:09
  which goes to show that just because you're having some kind of experience every
• 15:11
  once in a while doesn't necessarily mean that you know, it's a hard opening
• 15:18
  closed diagnosis. Yeah. And I think the other thing too, is like
• 15:22
  we get this a lot, or at least I've had this question several times,
• 15:26
  like what's the difference between like an internal dialogue versus an auditory hallucination common.
• 15:31
  Yeah, How do you answer that question, because like, for me,
• 15:33
  I'm thinking, like, well, my go to answer is like,
• 15:37
  if you're thinking about this or wondering, then it's probably an internal dialogue,
• 15:41
  like your internal dialogue you recognize as being your thoughts. I would say,
• 15:46
  I'm recognized it. Is it being internal? I would I would have guessed
• 15:48
  that it would be it's fooling your brain into that that information is basically coming
• 15:54
  into your brain in the same manner that information comes in through your ears,
• 16:00
  but it's kind of tricking your brain. So it's like, oh, I
• 16:02
  that voice came from that area that's my ear area of my brain. Does
• 16:07
  that make sense right? Noh yeah yeah yeah. So if it if it
• 16:15
  feels like you're hearing it, then it would be an auditory hallucination. What
• 16:18
  if it's just if you're thinking it, then it's not that. Yes,
• 16:22
  yes, So it's like it it's it's you recognize it as it being external.
• 16:26
  Yeah right, so it's you can actually hear it. It is an
• 16:30
  external voice that you're hearing as opposed to being something internal that like you kind
• 16:36
  of recognize as being your thoughts even though they may be intrusive, and you
• 16:40
  may feel like you don't have control over them, you do still experience them
• 16:44
  as being internal. Yeah, yeah, I mean, did you guys ever,
• 16:48
  when you're in school ever have to do like the simulation. Oh,
• 16:51
  my gosh. I never had to do that, but I've I've watched videos
• 16:56
  of people doing that, where it's like someone's just talking over your shoulder quietly.
• 17:00
  Well, you're like, say, you and I are talking and Anna's
• 17:03
  over here just quietly on my right hand shoulder, like saying whatever she wants
• 17:07
  to talk about my apple wants. Yes, yeah, but we actually looked
• 17:12
  shut up about them. No, we did it differently. We actually had
• 17:17
  a headset, oh, like an air pod, but not because it was
• 17:21
  too long ago. Yeah, it's settled out. It wasn't that long,
• 17:25
  all right. But yes, it was a I believe it was a walkman
• 17:36
  record player that I would just carry around with me. No, but we
• 17:40
  actually had to like put in headphones and then like we would, we had
• 17:44
  an assignment where we had to listen to this and it was a simulation of
• 17:48
  like auditory hallucinations that someone with a schizophrenic diagnosis would experience, and we had
• 17:55
  to walk through the union, and we had to there are certain things we
• 17:59
  had to do, like we had to ask somebody for directions someplace, we
• 18:03
  had to like there's a few different things tasks that we had to accomplish.
• 18:07
  It was tough. Yeah, it was really hard to walk around and like
• 18:12
  have a conversation with somebody because like we're hearing there were like four or five
• 18:17
  voices all occurring at the same time. Yeah, and they were you know,
• 18:21
  coming from different areas, and it just sounded really strange. It was
• 18:25
  tough. And things that draw your attention if it like makes a quick noise
• 18:27
  and you look, you know like yeah, I mean yeah, And there's
• 18:30
  some things that like as much as you try to just like okay, I
• 18:33
  want to appear as though I'm just listening to music, you can do that
• 18:37
  as much as you want, but like at some point there is something like
• 18:41
  that that's just going to startle you and you're just gonna be like well yeah,
• 18:44
  or just like shut up. Yeah, that's cool. So you went
• 18:49
  through that and did that through your well, yeah we did that in Uh
• 18:53
  did you have to like report on it or what was the Yeah, So
• 18:59
  this was actually it wasn't for a class. It was at like a it
• 19:04
  was kind of like a conference type thing that we were at as students.
• 19:07
  Oh okay, that's cool. So yeah, it was just one day experience.
• 19:11
  So to this question of like how often would you be experiencing something before
• 19:17
  you start to get to a diagnosis, I like what you said Whitney,
• 19:21
  of just making sure that there's always that clarity that symptoms of anything in mental
• 19:26
  health or any kind of abnormality don't always lead to a diagnosis, Like there's
• 19:30
  always a spectrum for everything. They're being. Anxious is a common thing,
• 19:33
  it's not a diagnosable thing, but anxiety to the point of clinically significant amount
• 19:37
  of distress now becomes that. And so we have all these extra criteria.
• 19:41
  So when it comes to just having heard something one thing, I think that
• 19:45
  is important to talk about. And I was just looking up statistic because I
• 19:48
  remember it was. It was actually bigger than you think. Five to twenty
• 19:52
  eight percent of Americans have experienced an auditory hallucination at some point, and like
• 19:59
  you did that, Well, that's obviously nowhere. We're not talking about almost
• 20:03
  thirty percent of the nation having schizophrenia, right, So it is one of
• 20:07
  the most common I guess you might call it like atypical mental health symptoms that
• 20:11
  can be experienced. This happens to me like once a month, Okay,
• 20:15
  yeah, but it's always I'm always in bed, like very specific circumstances.
• 20:18
  Yes, and it feels more like a waking dream than like a than what
• 20:22
  I would think of as a true hallucin. I'm in bed and the writer
• 20:27
  said that they're in bed when this happened. But if I'm in bed and
• 20:32
  I am just wiped out, like if I've gone a couple of days without
• 20:34
  sleeping type things up, then this then this will almost always happen to me.
• 20:38
  In those types of scenarios I have had the same experience. Is it
• 20:42
  just like a sound or it's usually voice. It's usually one or more voices.
• 20:47
  Yeah, and I sometimes like conversations in full exhaustion. I've been in
• 20:52
  that same state laying in bed, completely exhausted and clearly heard a voice.
• 20:56
  Yeah. And there are other times I will be sitting there or you know,
• 21:00
  lying in bed, and I'll hear it and it will scare the shit
• 21:03
  like that. Yeah, that's all I'm thinking. And I will I will
• 21:07
  like jump up or jump out of bed, not all the time, but
• 21:11
  every now and then it'll it'll really so surprise me. Why that's important is
• 21:15
  because that thirty percent or up to like on the high end, twenty percent
• 21:18
  of people, which I've realized five to twenty eight is a very big range.
• 21:22
  But you know, these are difficult statistics to also get at because there's
• 21:26
  a lot of stigma associated with it. Like even when we're talking to a
• 21:29
  patient, they're here for our help, we still have to walk on eggshells
• 21:33
  to talk about this kind of stuff. But this form that Jacob and I
• 21:36
  have experienced, and probably the writer as well, is a very common form
• 21:40
  that's called I believe it's audio hypnagogic uscinations, which have to do with sleep,
• 21:45
  so that transition cycle from like that conscious brain into that unconscious brain.
• 21:52
  This is the most common situation in which somebody would hear an audio who's like,
• 21:59
  I talk to my doctor about it years ago, and that's what they
• 22:02
  said. They were like, basically, you're dreaming and you're not asleep yet.
• 22:04
  That's it. Yeah, That's that's essentially it, ye, which I
• 22:07
  mean, really I appreciate that it can be startling. I appreciate hallucinations of
• 22:11
  any kind. Can make people scared, but I mean really appreciating the power
• 22:15
  of your brain to create fiction, you know, and like what dream states
• 22:19
  are and the way it replays memories and the way you hear tone and voice
• 22:23
  and all these things, Like it has it all ready to go, and
• 22:26
  it can just fictionally create that at any time. And that's essentially what this
• 22:30
  is. Should the writer be worried about what the voice is saying, obviously
• 22:37
  that's pretty uncomfortable. Yeah, that's prety uncomfortable. I mean the cat's not
• 22:40
  in the room. Yeah, yeah, yeah, as long as the cat
• 22:42
  doesn't start well, and what else would you expect from a cat? What
• 22:48
  they would say to kill it? The cat can talk, that's what the
• 22:52
  cat said. Yeah, no, if you've got fucking Doolittle powers, you
• 22:57
  heard that cat accurately. Difference between a house cat and a tiger is just
• 23:03
  the size. It's not the attitude, it's not the desire to murder things.
• 23:07
  Yeah, it's just the ability to do the murder. That's it's.
• 23:10
  That's all it is. They're all fucking monsters, cats and birds. Yeah
• 23:14
  yeah, yeah, like if birds were just if like a pigeon was fifty
• 23:17
  pounds, Yeah, then your eyes out, they're taking your shit. We
• 23:21
  would just all be dead. Yeah, that's one hundred true. Yeah,
• 23:23
  I mean the nature of the the what the voice said. It's difficult because
• 23:30
  again, distress matters a great deal, but also situation and like where this
• 23:34
  voice is imposing. And again, if you're experiencing what are probably auditory hypnagogic
• 23:40
  hallucinations, that's extremely common and in theory benign well, and so that that's
• 23:45
  kind of what I was thinking too, like it And if that's the situation,
• 23:48
  it's no different really than like having a dream of being chased, right,
• 23:53
  or it's just it's just your anxiety kind of manifesting itself into a dream
• 23:57
  state, and which is different than like having schizophrenia and hearing voices like this,
• 24:07
  because those voices are always negative, right, no one ever, there's
• 24:11
  I don't think I've ever been a case of some of you has schizophrenia and
• 24:14
  their voices are just like you're rocking it today, too soon? Too soon?
• 24:26
  That was not appropriate. But no, I think I think the you
• 24:32
  know, the the negativity, like that's the worst part I think of like
• 24:34
  hearing those voices like we did that simulation. It wasn't just that there were
• 24:37
  five different voices going on. It was all really tough, like it was
• 24:44
  like saying some very hurtful things. Yeah, it's almost always distressed. Yeah,
• 24:49
  not very good. You know that his line put the little shooting jokes
• 25:03
  on the fucking table. Don't you touch Caitlin? Oh my god? Yeah,
• 25:07
  so do make fun of Kaitlyn Clark or Laura. Oh yeah, that
• 25:12
  was the option defend one. Can I get back to it? No,
• 25:17
  that's good. I'm glad you're taking your time. It's a big commitment.
• 25:21
  Yeah, there's no reason to take your time. So the good news writer.
• 25:26
  You know, again, we do not diagnose on the show. We
• 25:27
  do not undiagnose on the show. We always refer you back to your own
• 25:33
  treatment team. And if this is something that you know is recurring and happening
• 25:36
  in your life and you'd like to examine it more, you can. I've
• 25:38
  I've read in some places that if you are having this, you might want
• 25:45
  to go get whatever it's called, like an ee G, the interior en
• 25:49
  cephalogram or whatever it's it's basically a neural hearing test, So you'd go to
• 25:53
  an audiologist for it, because sometimes if you're developing hearing loss, you can
• 25:59
  actually get hippigogic hallucinations as wow. Yeah, so sometimes that can be worth
• 26:04
  doing, but I mean, I do want to normalize it, and like
• 26:07
  hearing voices isn't just reserved for people with psychotic features or schizophrenia. There's support
• 26:15
  groups out there, Like I remember at NAMI there was a group just it
• 26:21
  was just called Hearing Voices, you know, to just make sure everybody got
• 26:25
  it, like this is what it's for, but obviously a very wide spectrum
• 26:29
  of what that is. And there were a lot of first timers that would
• 26:32
  come wandering in and say, look, I'm not whatever the movie depiction is
• 26:37
  of the bad guy holding a knife, which again is thanks HollyHood, yeah
• 26:41
  fuck you. But they're really scared to talk about it and get help because
• 26:45
  it's it's in that range of shit that people like everybody could talk about.
• 26:47
  Anxiety, Oh, it's kind of charming, you're scared, okay, whatever,
• 26:51
  Depression everybody's like, oh boy, I get it, you know,
• 26:52
  and even some of these other things that we've all normalized by talking about mental
• 26:56
  health, this is still in that category that's like the black box of shit
• 27:00
  we don't talk about yeah. Mostly I think mostly because of Hollywood's Yeah,
• 27:07
  yep, yeah, the bad guy in the movie killing everybody doesn't have a
• 27:10
  fucking eating disorder. You know it's going to be this shit. So it's
• 27:15
  it's sad. But writer, I'm glad for questions like this, A because
• 27:18
  I think we can normalize the experience. B we can add a few extra
• 27:21
  layers of understanding. See it gets a chance to talk about how diagnostics work.
• 27:26
  And D. I'm really glad because there's a lot of folks that have
• 27:29
  had some I mean fucking there's five people in this room and two of us
• 27:32
  were like, yep, I've experienced hearing voices. You know that we're normalizing
• 27:37
  that, So I'm really glad that that's something we can talk about. Yeah.
• 27:40
  Also, if you're hearing voices, always make sure you're not on meth,
• 27:42
  that that could easily be part of it, yeah, or that you
• 27:45
  don't have earbuds in Oh, yeah, you want to rule out the obvious
• 27:52
  ones. You get those off the table first. Thank you for the question.
• 27:55
  Writer. We're going to take a quick break and when we come back,
• 27:56
  we're talking about distant father passing away. You're listening to pod Therapy.
• 28:03
  Today's episode is brought to you by Jack Schneider, Judy Schneider, Lean,
• 28:07
  Carolyn Albert, Sammy Scoop, Barris Smith, Mike Holm, Darren Cuttingham makes
• 28:11
  a tangament, and missus talk Scoop. If you would like to sponsor the
• 28:15
  show, become a therap producer a Patreon dot com slash. All right,
• 28:18
  Anna, get your mic ready. You're part of Trivia's part of the deal
• 28:22
  here. You can win glory for all the people in month. You can
• 28:25
  have say on what Whitney votes on in her next I was so excited the
• 28:34
  corruption. You understand, you have a you have an opportunity to establish that.
• 28:48
  That is just your speech pattern at the meeting. If you haven't said
• 28:52
  anything yet, just lean in on it and then just keep making references to
• 28:56
  tail West. Thank you so much for allowing me to be at the today
• 29:04
  today, I want to talk about tail Us. What tell us? All
• 29:11
  right? Back to our trivia from Emma. What is the record breaking amount
• 29:17
  in millions of dollars for the most expensive horse ever sold? Oh? Wow,
• 29:23
  this is a buzzing thing or is this a I think this is going
• 29:27
  to have to be a price? Is right? Oh? Wow, alive
• 29:30
  or dead. I think that's right question. Thank you, Thank you,
• 29:36
  Jacob. I think it's a very relevant question. King Tut's mummified horse.
• 29:40
  Goddamn right, you're goddamn right. That would be worth a ship ton of
• 29:42
  money that you're right, Jim, Thanks buddy, I've backed you up on
• 29:47
  this. Are we doing season five? Start affirming? Jim? Shit again?
• 29:52
  You know what if the if the answer is it's a dead horse,
• 29:56
  I will give you point no matter what number you guess. Thanks by all
• 30:00
  right, good and that goes for the rest of trivia. If any of
• 30:04
  the dead and I'm gonna get that layup. It's Europe, all right.
• 30:17
  We're being on dead horse here in the amount of millions, so it's got
• 30:19
  to be more than one million, all right, I'll start, I'll say,
• 30:22
  uh, two point three million, Okay, I'm gonna go I'm gonna
• 30:29
  go seven. All right, wow, closest without going over. We've got
• 30:36
  two point three on the board and seven. Seven's way too fucking high.
• 30:38
  I was gonna go way high. Alright. I'm just gonna take a clean
• 30:42
  five. I'll take five in the middle of the pack. I kind of
• 30:48
  want to go close to gym because he was so good before it. I'm
• 30:49
  very good at this. You can if it's if it's alive, no fucking
• 30:53
  clue. You can take five million one right now? Yes, not five
• 31:00
  point one five million and one dollar one penny. I'm going ten because I
• 31:07
  just want going for the high by alright, Whitney wins and it's nowhere.
• 31:14
  Twenty was my original guest. Still okay, but then you'll guess like seven.
• 31:18
  I was like, oh, yeah, I know, I don't know.
• 31:22
  Holy shit, seventy to seventy five million, Oh alive, Oh this
• 31:29
  is going to be this is going to be like a like a shawl or
• 31:33
  something like that. Yeah, okay, just says. The most expensive horse
• 31:38
  ever sold was a thoroughbread named mister ed something Pegasus. Oh that feels right,
• 31:44
  who was sold for approximately seventy million dollars. Dan, I don't want
• 31:52
  to go over this. Well, if it's got wings, yeah yeah,
• 31:56
  knocked off the wings? Thing that would that would change numbers? Sashy Pegasus,
• 32:01
  God damn U s A I C. H Iucci of horses. How
• 32:09
  many pounds does an average adult living horse? You? Thank you. I'm
• 32:16
  sure it was not. Are we still doing the prices, right, we
• 32:23
  got any prices right? Pounds of the average adult horse. Okay? Who
• 32:29
  went first? Last time? I did? Okay, so you'll go last.
• 32:30
  All right, I'm going to jump in. I'm going to say what,
• 32:37
  you know what thousand pounds? Let's just get it a thousand. That's
• 32:40
  the average. Okay, Whitney closest without going over. You're gonna stick me
• 32:50
  again. No, I just like guessing an actual number. I'm not about
• 32:53
  strategy, okay, mm hmm, I don't know. Twelve hundred okay,
• 33:01
  yeah, that's gotta be. I want to go eighteen hundred, going on
• 33:06
  the high side, all right, Okay, where you're going? Tanjimin Okay,
• 33:12
  you're eighteen hundred year well twelve and I'm at one. I'm gonna go
• 33:15
  fifteen hundred, okay, middle of the pack. Everybody's above Melcom. I
• 33:20
  was gonna say like seven fifty. Yeah, yeah, you got all in
• 33:23
  the thousand because I was thinking that too. But like I'm rolling one pound.
• 33:29
  Oh there, I think you're all over this Gainsman ship. I think
• 33:31
  it's under a thousand. Okay, I got a pretty tight window. It's
• 33:37
  a thousand to two twelve hundred. Ye two wins a thousand to twelve hundred.
• 33:39
  Yeah, uh okay, Emma, the answers are not quite well.
• 33:45
  I guess it's average. Okay, So the average horse typically weighs between nine
• 33:50
  hundred to twelve hundred pounds. That's me, Come on, that's my win.
• 33:52
  That no way she gets it, nine hundred and twelve hundred year over,
• 33:57
  I said one thousand, nine hundred, I got the majority of that
• 34:00
  average. Jacob, you have you know what, Nick no riving him on
• 34:06
  this? Wait wait, but then Jacob wins. I'm because he wants to
• 34:10
  nine hundred. Because saying a range isn't an average. An average is a
• 34:16
  number. So then you're taking average of the range. Oh average, range,
• 34:22
  average the range. Who can math? No one can do that.
• 34:27
  And do you do math? Yeah, yeah, it's impossible. Yeah that's
• 34:31
  possible, ten fifty or something. I don't take it. I accept,
• 34:36
  But no, that's not the average. You know what just sounds like a
• 34:38
  buddy. I think it's one conference the horses dead the dead horse. Yeah,
• 34:44
  let's assume nors also because technically as the living words, I feel I'm
• 34:50
  giving another point on this one in the range though, No, no,
• 34:53
  gem and I coattail me. You're on the goddamn edge outside the door trying
• 35:05
  to walk into the club. Hold on, I'll give each of you a
• 35:09
  third of a point wow, and then I'm for being a good splitting the
• 35:15
  horse on this the fattest horse in existence at right. All right, I'm
• 35:31
  gonna save some of the rest of these was the next question. Here we
• 35:36
  are distant father passed away. My father just got diagnosed with stage four lung
• 35:42
  cancer. He's on his way to dying. This has been hard. This
• 35:45
  has been hard news to process. My father and I aren't a strange from
• 35:49
  each other, but we also don't talk. I'll see him at family Christmas
• 35:52
  and we'll send happy Birthday text to each other, but that is about it.
• 35:57
  It took a long time, but I thought I've accepted that this will
• 36:00
  be the extent of our relationship that I'd get from him. He's very closed
• 36:04
  off as a person. He doesn't try for conversation with me, and talking
• 36:07
  to him is a nerve, very nerve racking to me, because he is
• 36:12
  a short temper and will snap if I say the wrong thing. So I
• 36:15
  feel like my brain kind of just freezes up around him, and I can't
• 36:17
  think of things to say. It's very dull when we talk. I'm twenty
• 36:22
  four years old and completely no contact with my mother. I keep getting overwhelmed
• 36:25
  with the thought how I'll have no parent left soon, even though it's kind
• 36:30
  of like that now. Because I barely even have a relationship with the parent
• 36:35
  I talk to and have known, I can't rely on him for normal things
• 36:38
  people need their parents for, or even any emotional support. And then I
• 36:43
  tell myself it's wrong for me to even be this sad because of how we
• 36:46
  are with each other. I lost my step mom and aunt both to cancer
• 36:51
  as well, so I'm thinking mainly the emotions I'm feeling are due to what's
• 36:54
  happened in the past. I'm constantly wondering if this would be easier or harder
• 37:00
  for me if we did have a typical father daughter relationship. And how is
• 37:05
  it that I am feeling like I'm losing someone who's a big part of my
• 37:08
  heart even though we barely know each other. And how do I quit feeling
• 37:13
  sorry for myself? This has to be hard news to him. Obviously,
• 37:17
  I don't have ill feelings against my dad, so I want to be there
• 37:22
  for him, But I have no clue how should I be pushy or should
• 37:25
  I just let him know that I'm here for him? Sorry, so many
• 37:30
  questions. Any advice would be great, Thanks Anonymous. A couple layers of
• 37:35
  questions on this. I think I'm hearing questions on advice for how to be
• 37:40
  helpful to a person going through this and whether or not to kind of impose
• 37:45
  in a sense like advance into the relationship or give him space. But then
• 37:51
  also kind of exploring this reality of feeling this way about a distant relationship in
• 37:57
  a really sad circumstance and really tragic one. Well, it sounds like it's
• 38:00
  coming from kind of a similar place as that question last week, a little
• 38:06
  bit, not exactly, but where the writer here might be worried about like
• 38:13
  regrets or you know, if I don't say something, what does that mean?
• 38:16
  If I do say something, doesn't even matter because my dad will just
• 38:21
  snap at me, or I can't even get out what I want to say.
• 38:23
  Is what I'm hearing the writers say as well, that if they try
• 38:28
  and share their feelings or thoughts about something, the dad kind of reacts,
• 38:34
  and so that's like a tough balancing act there. But there's a lot of
• 38:38
  grief in there too, with the stepmom and the aunt passing, And I
• 38:43
  think it's really insightful that they're pointing that out as well, because it almost
• 38:46
  sounds like these waves of grief have been happening and now it's like, this
• 38:51
  is my last parent, I'm saying in quotes, my last parent, and
• 38:53
  I don't even have a great relationship with them, But how will I feel
• 39:00
  as they pass? Right? That's that's tough spot to be in. That
• 39:04
  is really hard. That's a scary thought anyway. Yeah, just in general,
• 39:08
  and at twenty four, like how young to be experiencing that feeling.
• 39:15
  Well, I mean I'm I'm you know, slightly, but like I and
• 39:24
  my parents are still alive, but I still have that thought of and it
• 39:29
  always it it always reminds me of Stop This Train, the song by John
• 39:36
  Mayer, and there's a line in there he was talking about like getting older
• 39:40
  and just what that's like, and there's this line in there that he says
• 39:45
  he's one generation's one generation's length away from finding life out on my own,
• 39:51
  and just just kind of that that, Yeah, that's just that heavy thought
• 39:53
  of like like for me, my parents have always been the safety net.
• 40:00
  They're the oldest generation. Yeah, so it's like, okay, well,
• 40:05
  I mean I'm a grown adult, but like worst case scenario, yeah,
• 40:08
  you always I've always got them, yeah you know. But so there is
• 40:13
  that thought of like, oh shit, like that's not going to be around
• 40:16
  forever, and there's just it's a short amount of time and then that is
• 40:20
  gone and then now there's no safety net. We like, howten you think
• 40:22
  about that? Almost? I mean for me, almost never. I take
• 40:25
  that for granted one hundred percent. It's like I don't yeah, your mom
• 40:30
  said that she did, Yeah, I don't know what. I don't even
• 40:32
  call her. Also, I did want to stay super fast. Whenever I
• 40:40
  have clients that Kevin and they have a hard time expressing their feelings or thoughts
• 40:45
  to usually it is a parent, a strong, strong parent. There I
• 40:52
  usually go to, and I've said this before and here, try try letter
• 40:57
  writing of some form, because it's a way to feel like you got everything
• 41:00
  you want to say out. You had time to think about what you wanted
• 41:04
  to say. And I just really suggest if you go that route, do
• 41:09
  not have expectations of a response, an emotional reaction like it's got to be
• 41:15
  kind of no strings attached. And this is for me, not I mean,
• 41:20
  not holy for the other person, right, And I know the writer
• 41:22
  addresses that too, like do I push talking to my dad because they need
• 41:27
  they're going through something and I'm not there for them? Or is it just
• 41:30
  about me? But I'm all about my clients. It's all about you.
• 41:34
  It's all about you. I like your point though, about like that whole
• 41:37
  extra generation, right, like that elder generation passing away my aunt and now
• 41:43
  you know my father, and there is I think just that part of it,
• 41:46
  just grieving the absence of that entire class of people in your brain at
• 41:52
  such a young age, and that sadness I mean, And writer, I
• 41:54
  guess I'm just sad for you. I mean, at twenty four years old,
• 41:58
  you've had to cut off your mother, you have a very strained relationship
• 42:00
  with your father, You've already gone through a lot of mortality in your family
• 42:06
  tree. And to even have to face this at twenty four years old and
• 42:09
  try to think to yourself what am I meant to do with this? I
• 42:14
  mean, like if you're in your I don't know, mid to late fifties,
• 42:16
  like you know, Vice President Harris Nick. You know those folks,
• 42:22
  they they're equipped to say goodbye in some ways because they have all these decades
• 42:27
  that they've had with their family, you know, and it's like, Okay,
• 42:29
  this is terrible, but I know who you are. I know who
• 42:32
  I am. You got me through certain periods of my life, whereas in
• 42:37
  this case, you're twenty four in the sense of like, wow, we
• 42:38
  could have still had a whole different version of our relationship as adults. Maybe
• 42:43
  we would have hit our stride when I was in my thirties. You know,
• 42:45
  I don't know, and I think there's a lost opportunity to this.
• 42:49
  What do we think about when somebody is going through a terminal illness like this
• 42:53
  and that feeling of I don't want to keep you at arm's length because I
• 42:59
  don't want to not be available to you. But also I don't know if
• 43:02
  I'm supposed to like suddenly change the rules of our relationship because but then maybe
• 43:07
  I should, because this is absolutely an existential situation you're facing, and I
• 43:10
  am your child, and maybe I should kind of kick the door open emotionally
• 43:15
  here and say, listen, you know I love you. I am not
• 43:19
  going to keep that a secret. I care for you and I want to
• 43:21
  be around you, and even if you just sit here in silence, we're
• 43:23
  going to do that because I want to make sure that you get from me
• 43:27
  what you need. Like, what what do you guys think about this whole?
• 43:30
  How do you respectfully approach somebody going through this? Well? I think
• 43:35
  you're kind of balancing needs on two fronts. You're balancing your needs and you're
• 43:40
  also kind of balancing their needs. What do they need in this situation?
• 43:45
  What do you need? And hopefully those two can be kangarooent, but sometimes
• 43:52
  maybe they're not. Yea, Yeah, it's an Australian term kangarouent, kangaro
• 44:02
  you're welcome. No, I don't want to kangarooincy. No, I did
• 44:07
  go there. When I was listening to you read through that, a tiny
• 44:12
  part of me was like, yeah, just bust in that door and say
• 44:15
  hey, yeah, you know this is what I want and you know this
• 44:20
  is how it's gonna go. I'm gonna tell you what I think or whatnot.
• 44:22
  I tell me how often you see Uh, I don't know how old
• 44:28
  this this dad is here, but I have heard multiple stories from people who
• 44:32
  will have typically their dad almost even not tell them when they have a terminal
• 44:37
  illness. Someone told me this just recently. They just didn't tell their family
• 44:40
  because they didn't want to go through treatment, and so they knew their family
• 44:45
  would convince them to go through treatment, and then it was just like,
• 44:49
  okay, well I'm going to pass in a couple of weeks or really yeah,
• 44:54
  yeah, a lot of times I think I talk about but my mother's
• 44:59
  father had terminal lung cancer and didn't tell any of us, didn't tell his
• 45:05
  children. If you like a strong silent type, yeah, very strong silent
• 45:09
  farmer, you know. And he had been for years going to the oncologist
• 45:16
  and getting reports and doing the next thing he was told to do. But
• 45:22
  it got to the place where it couldn't be treated, and nobody even knew
• 45:24
  that he had lung cancer, you know, because he kept it to himself.
• 45:28
  He didn't want any of his conversations in Christmases and you know, the
• 45:34
  moments to be around them. Yeah, he didn't want that to be like
• 45:37
  now we're worried about this, right and you know, how is he and
• 45:40
  what's going on? And you know, I think his logic was you're gonna
• 45:45
  mourn either way. So I'm gonna contain that and make it all at once
• 45:51
  and not make you have to do it leading into it. But he ended
• 45:54
  up taking his life, so you know, that was obviously extra shocking and
• 46:00
  that was a whole other reality, and so that was difficult to hear that.
• 46:04
  Yeah, a lot of people, a lot of people keep stuff like
• 46:06
  this a secret, and it's one of those things where you think, all
• 46:08
  that selfish, you shouldn't do that, and it's like, but then I've
• 46:10
  had a long time to think about his choice, and I look at it
• 46:14
  and go, you know, man, that was his choice. There's an
• 46:15
  argument on both sides. You know, euthanasia is a very big ethical conversation.
• 46:23
  So one other thing that I wanted to point out, you writer say,
• 46:31
  and how do I quit feeling sorry for myself? So I did want
• 46:36
  to point that out because I think a lot of people get into that kind
• 46:42
  of mindset where it's like, oh, poor me, I'm feeling sorry for
• 46:46
  myself. How do I stop doing this? And there's like a difference between
• 46:51
  feeling sorry for yourself and having empathy for yourself being in a difficult situation.
• 46:55
  So cut yourself a little slack there, because I think It's perfectly natural,
• 47:01
  and I don't think it's anything that you need to like do differently. If
• 47:05
  you recognize that this is a shitty situation and you kind of feel bad about
• 47:12
  being in that situation, I think that's perfectly normal. Yeah, no,
• 47:15
  great point that. I mean, this is a shitty situation. You're allowed
• 47:19
  to mourn, You're allowed to feel bad for yourself on a lot of levels.
• 47:22
  You're allowed to say, I'm disappointed that my father and I never became
• 47:24
  besties. I'm mourning the future that we're not going to have. I'm sad
• 47:29
  that somebody I care for is suffering and that there is a loneliness. I'm
• 47:32
  sad for a lot of things. I'm sad that that's the only relative I
• 47:36
  feel like I still have, like in that parent class tire. You know,
• 47:39
  it's okay. I think it's okay to be sad in this situation.
• 47:43
  And you know, my only advice on this would just be, look,
• 47:46
  leave nothing on the field. You know that's I kind of want, or
• 47:50
  leave it all on the field, like get out there. Well, which
• 47:52
  is it? It's definitely the latter one. Yeah, you want to leave
• 47:53
  it all on the field, leave man behind, leave no man behind.
• 47:59
  Yeah, leave no man behind on the field. Everything on the field.
• 48:02
  Don't leave the men. Don't leave the men else the man's behind on the
• 48:08
  exactly which has always got to get the cut off the behind and leave it
• 48:14
  on the feet. The Field of Dream, you don't leave. If you
• 48:17
  build it, they will go right. Yeah, got it? Okay,
• 48:22
  proud of you on that one, Jacob. You just it's the notes.
• 48:25
  He doesn't play. I looked nothing. What is his art? Okay?
• 48:30
  It doesn't just give you cream? Predictable, that's right. Field of Dream
• 48:34
  is a very popular movie overseas, especially with young people, especially with the
• 48:37
  euthanasia there. It is. It's full circle of it. No way to
• 48:40
  come back. He always finds the better one. But anyway, writer,
• 48:45
  I would want you to hold back. I would want you to They're mostly
• 48:49
  boys because of the two child policy. China is there it is. I
• 48:54
  knew we were going to get that. I knew somehow he was going to
• 48:59
  come back. Anyway, writer, I think you should tell your father how
• 49:04
  you feel. I hope that you like. I like your idea, Whitney
• 49:07
  of changing the medium, maybe writing a letter that says hey, I love
• 49:12
  you and like their eyes have to read that right, and so even if
• 49:15
  he doesn't read it, yeah, like right, you know there's a therapeutic
• 49:17
  aspect, and then feeling like you know you've kind of done your part.
• 49:22
  Yeah, there's no reach back, like you you've done what you can do.
• 49:24
  Yeah, And you can always put the options in the letter to say
• 49:28
  something like, on one hand, out, I really want to be around
• 49:30
  you during this time, and I want to support you, and I want
• 49:32
  you to feel that I am near you and I'm with you and I love
• 49:36
  you. On the other hand, I also don't want to annoy you or
• 49:38
  crowd you, and I want to show respect. This letter is me letting
• 49:43
  you know that that's on the table. Let me know what you'd like.
• 49:45
  I mean, I was thinking about it while you guys were talking about it,
• 49:47
  and the kind of balance that I was thinking of. You guys were
• 49:52
  all talking about balance, and a different way that I was kind of thinking
• 49:55
  of it is it's the balance of your needs versus the balance of your dad's
• 50:00
  needs. And it's like you need to be as whole as you can be
• 50:06
  when he passes away. Good point, because after that, you're you're done.
• 50:08
  So like, if you feel like you might need to reach out or
• 50:12
  whatever. I would say, do it because it might it might turn into
• 50:16
  something good and you won't question it for the rest of your life after your
• 50:21
  dad passes a point. But at the same time, you want to balance
• 50:23
  his needs in there too, because you don't want to You don't want to
• 50:25
  overreach to a point where it makes him uncomfortable or if he doesn't want you,
• 50:28
  like there's it's a it's a sticky, wicked I say, just go
• 50:31
  and he's uncomfortable, you know, when he's annoyed, it'll be like and
• 50:36
  you can leave any time. Da great, you know, as soon as
• 50:39
  he goes, well, it's good, good, iowa go advis you stand
• 50:45
  up and well, well adjust your belts, you know, And that just
• 50:52
  means you go to the door and talk and then just open the door and
• 50:59
  just leave it there for a and if there are chairs on the front porch,
• 51:00
  yeah, forget it. You're an hour and a half out writer.
• 51:06
  Thanks for this one. We are sorry to hear about this, but I'm
• 51:08
  glad you're being intentional with it. You're trying to do this the right way,
• 51:12
  and you know, I hope that you find the way that works for
• 51:15
  you. So good luck with that. We're gonna take a quick break,
• 51:17
  and when we come back, we're and talk about unrequited love for your best
• 51:22
  friend with whom you have a podcast Anonymous, completely Anonymous. Today's episode it
• 51:34
  is brought to you by Jake Schneider, Judy Schneider, Carolyn Albert, Sammy
• 51:37
  Scoop, Sarah Smith, Mike Helm, Darren Cunningham, Matt and Lisa Tangabin
• 51:42
  and missus hot Dog Scoop. And if you would like to sponsor the show,
• 51:45
  become a therapety sure Matreon dot com slash there. All right, so
• 51:49
  I'm up believe it's one to nothing? What are you talking about one as
• 51:54
  well? If I have one, fine, I accept. Well, if
• 51:57
  you guys have one, I have on. No, you don't have Jack
• 51:59
  one third Fromhip Witty doesn't have ship. Were listening to the last No we
• 52:07
  have four? Start? How much prize money in millions of dollars millions was
• 52:16
  awarded to the winner of the twenty twenty Kentucky Derby's twenty twenty I think it's
• 52:23
  one of those things like the w n B A. I think you make
• 52:25
  more from sponsorships than you do from the game. You know what I'm saying.
• 52:30
  I think the horse sells like fucking gatorade, and like that's where the
• 52:32
  money is. The person from Gatorade, probably, I don't know whoever says
• 52:38
  millions. Well, I mean the apparently they're for breeding, so it's probably
• 52:42
  like you know, a jar of horse semen. But like that's the episodes
• 52:46
  in a row. He's brought up horses. That's not the horse that wins
• 52:53
  the race. Look, we still don't know what it has anything. I
• 52:59
  promise Emma is listening to this episode. She's nodding along and going, he's
• 53:04
  not fucking wrong. There's the real money is breeding that fucking horse. Of
• 53:08
  course, who is that race? Fine, the jockey and the horse get
• 53:13
  laid like all over town, like everybody pays. All right, that's what
• 53:16
  I'm saying. Jiggalow horse, that's where the money is. I think the
• 53:23
  purse is low. I think it's a low purse, high million the jiggalow
• 53:29
  uh oh, not less than a million? Eight a plurality of millions.
• 53:35
  All right, I will. I don't think I should go first. Thing.
• 53:37
  I went first. I think it's my turn to go first. All
• 53:40
  right, Okay, So it's the winner of the Kentucky Derby in twenty twenty.
• 53:45
  Yes, not counting then, I don't know what. Leave the navy
• 53:52
  out of it. Five million. That's that horse submarine full of it's extensive.
• 54:02
  That's white gold. Okay, I'm sorry. What five million? Okay,
• 54:07
  Anna, I'll go ten million. You just gonna ignore the white the
• 54:10
  white gold references didn't hear anything obviously episode and will be the second week.
• 54:16
  Brillion eighteen million? Yeah, what'd you say? I think over ten?
• 54:22
  You said ten? All right, I'll take eleven. Rude, what the
• 54:28
  lowest right now is five? Right? Give her a whole million dollars?
• 54:30
  That's a window. Give me it is a lot. Would you say a
• 54:35
  million dollars right now? No, I'll take four and a half million.
• 54:38
  All right, So Gym's out. Okay, four and a half and you
• 54:43
  got the lowest one. Yeah, I went under. Yeah, Whitney has
• 54:45
  five. We all lost three million. Oh oh ship, it's close without
• 54:52
  going over. Fuck, that's right. That's why we all lost. But
• 54:57
  I was easily the closest is without going on to yeah, the whole different
• 55:01
  game. I deserve something because my horse seating theory was correct. That's where
• 55:07
  the money is Okay, how many years on average? Idiot? Somebody look
• 55:14
  it up. Look up how much the breeding rights of that horse? It's
• 55:17
  more than three million. What's arguing? All Yeah, I'm just sitting there
• 55:23
  going, guy's making points. Okay, there's a market and it's more than
• 55:30
  three million dollars. And the winner of the Kentucky Derby is gonna be the
• 55:34
  one that I'll bet you it's a million by the fucking leader. Okay,
• 55:40
  like making so much money, Jim, I'm gonna tell you right now.
• 55:45
  The stud horses Kentucky Derby winning stud horses, after they get put out to
• 55:50
  stud they get paid per full. They don't get paid per like amount of
• 55:54
  semen they get. They only get paid as an empty per baby horse.
• 56:00
  Yeah, that's a very different thing. Yeah, so how much per full
• 56:05
  is the stud fee for Kentucky Derby winning horse? That's interesting. You only
• 56:08
  have to pay if it takes you some money. Bet guarant you keep on
• 56:13
  trying until you un til it fucking works. Yeah, you do. God,
• 56:16
  the horse life. All right, I'm gonna go the horse life.
• 56:20
  I'll bet you this is everybody, by the way, I bet you.
• 56:23
  Let's go. Let's go five hundred thousand per full. Okay, all right,
• 56:29
  and that that horse is just going down. I'm just making printing fucking
• 56:32
  money. That is where it is. That's the town. Three million,
• 56:37
  five hundred thousand per full. I'll bet I'll bet two two hundred fifty thousand.
• 56:40
  Okay, take a little lower. Shoot, that's what I was gonna
• 56:43
  do. Do one hundred, one hundred, great, one hundred and fifty
• 56:49
  these rich people want. I think I got to give that to Whitney because
• 56:54
  one hundred to two twenty five Oh okay, okay per pony man, that
• 57:00
  is yeah, come on now, and they're lining them up. They just
• 57:02
  printing money. That's that's all. You're doing money with a horse. I
• 57:06
  mean, how many So it's about one hundred and fifty thousand per yeah,
• 57:09
  somewhere that call it one hundred for just to do math easier. So every
• 57:14
  thirty gets you a million, right, that's how that works. Is it
• 57:16
  thirty thirty one hundred thousands equals three million? Yeah, yeah, it's on.
• 57:22
  Next question, was it ten? You got it? Every thirty gets
• 57:27
  you to the Kentucky Derby? Next question, how many years on average does
• 57:32
  a living horse compete? In a question in sports before retire, like because
• 57:39
  it felt natural because can compete. They can. It's just a little different.
• 57:50
  It looks a little different on tvically Love of God. All right,
• 57:55
  how long in years do the does the average can worse compete in a question
• 58:00
  in sports? It can't be I can't because I already saw Also I have
• 58:06
  to go for prices, right, it can't be very long. Man.
• 58:09
  Yeah, I'm gonna say four. That seems like that does. Okay,
• 58:15
  You're welcome to guests lower. Yeah, I kind of think one year,
• 58:17
  okay. I think it matters though, whether it's like a really competitive eventing
• 58:24
  a question horse or if it's like someone that's like owns a horse is doing
• 58:29
  it for oh yeah yeah yeah no, like yeah, very like seriously competing
• 58:35
  es yeah, like high level because like it's expensive to ride those horses.
• 58:38
  And it has Tonka and she's said Tonka has been competing for a long time
• 58:44
  forever, so like clear competing and what I'm in there? Repeat the question?
• 58:47
  They like jump over ship. There's pictures of her jumping over that race
• 58:52
  is not a race many years on average? Does a horse compete in a
• 58:55
  question in sports? Question or not? Just horse race? Yeah? If
• 59:00
  it's horse, that's like sucking greyhounds. They burned through that ship. There's
• 59:04
  no way you last. Oh, I have no idea. Well, I
• 59:06
  mean, polo, you need three horses just to compete one match, right,
• 59:08
  yeah, so fucking I don't even plus the race horses between racing and
• 59:14
  having sex, like they're burning through those things. They do, know they
• 59:19
  do. They don't die, they don't die. But that's the rule.
• 59:30
  That's the rule. Horizon the other works as the biathlon people, it's really
• 59:44
  one sport. This is the third leg of the biathlon. The polo people
• 59:47
  supply the targets for the bath on people quick take them down from fifty meters
• 59:55
  away. It looked about the size of a CD. Oh my god.
• 1:00:00
  Okay, I guess our eyes so we got guess Okay, yes, all
• 1:00:05
  right, new guesses. Unless Jacob wants to keep it, you want to
• 1:00:07
  redo, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go higher. Then I'll go uh
• 1:00:12
  seven, okay, yeah, Jacob's got seven seven seven seven minutes. I'm
• 1:00:25
  gonna guess five. Uh boy, it seems like it's got to be a
• 1:00:35
  long time. So but I think seven is really high, So I'll go
• 1:00:37
  under I'll take a three stick with the odds close with going over right,
• 1:00:42
  I'm gonna stay it one. I'm getting a point on this. I feel
• 1:00:45
  confident. What do you have? Seven? Seven? I think he's best
• 1:00:47
  position, Jacob, Yeah, fifteen to twenty years. Okay, we're doing
• 1:00:57
  fucking Lebron James time in the game. Fuck, that is impressive. That's
• 1:01:02
  average. But you don't go questioned events, not I clearly do not.
• 1:01:08
  Well, yeah, I just know that Emma's had Tonka for a long time.
• 1:01:12
  Okay, last one for this one, This one is this one's appropriate.
• 1:01:15
  How many Olympic medals has the United States won in equestrian events with live
• 1:01:21
  horses since the inclusion of the sports in the Olympics. Thank you for adding
• 1:01:25
  the line since they outlawed the dead one. This is making sure I don't
• 1:01:34
  ask for a free one. Guy showed up with a horse Marionette once almost
• 1:01:38
  got him almost. There's nothing the rules. I can't have it. So
• 1:01:47
  it's gold or any metal Olympic medal. How many Olympic medals? And what's
• 1:01:52
  the sport? One? In equesting events? So all equesting events since the
• 1:01:58
  occlusion of the sport in Thelympics. You might as well have asked how many
• 1:02:00
  equestrian events are Indian zero? And yeah, I don't know. I have
• 1:02:07
  no idea somewhere between none and the infinite. Emma, Look, I want
• 1:02:10
  to be pro this horse sport thing. I'm against it being in the Olympics.
• 1:02:15
  That violates the concept robot battles. All the horses are Greeks. The
• 1:02:29
  horses, horses, animals do the Olympics. This is mesting there. It
• 1:02:42
  is all right. I went, I'll go five, I'll be medal titles.
• 1:02:51
  Yeah, the other countries have to eat the horse. So I'm going
• 1:02:53
  to say that we have like twenty. I'm gonna guess team No. Thirty
• 1:03:05
  gonna Oh, I bet you're probably closer. I'm still a fifty uh thirty
• 1:03:13
  and a half. I hate you. Anna's on the board. Should have
• 1:03:22
  gone off again. Oh good, I'm just deciding who to go over do
• 1:03:27
  I do? I take Anna's answer. I don't take Whitney's answer. I
• 1:03:30
  know he wrong. Well, you go to America American horses. It's a
• 1:03:37
  lot of metals. How many A questions about are there zero for the biathlon?
• 1:03:42
  Yeah? I know that's what we're working on it. Okay, Yeah,
• 1:03:45
  horses. Serious, I need to fucking find a way to sponsor this
• 1:03:49
  team, like or at least send them a card or something like, hey,
• 1:03:52
  we are rooting for you. Now if you included the horse and the
• 1:03:55
  biathlon, oh we crushed. No, listen, listen. Would the horse
• 1:04:00
  be on the skis or would the horse be shooting the gun? Oh?
• 1:04:04
  Ship? Yeah? Think about it. No, you just blew my mind.
• 1:04:13
  Yeah, that's that's obviously the more fun. It's obviously the more fun.
• 1:04:18
  But I also like the horse in the shooting position with its arms like
• 1:04:21
  folded, one eye closed. It just fiddling with the All right, how
• 1:04:32
  many question events are in the Olympics? Please? Won't only because of Romney.
• 1:04:43
  That's the only reason I even know that, you know, because I
• 1:04:45
  think one of the royals did dressage Romney a horse in the Olympics. Yes,
• 1:04:51
  they respect Olympian horse. The jumping one, yeah, I think it's
• 1:04:58
  called jumping. Dress that could be dancing. They can't do horse racing because
• 1:05:03
  I think that it's just way too elsewhere. I don't think I'm gonna say
• 1:05:06
  too. Only I can think of so I'm just gonna go with this.
• 1:05:10
  I'll bet you it's like I'll bet you Polo's in there. I mean,
• 1:05:14
  where the hell else is it? You know? I have water Polo is
• 1:05:15
  definitely the Olympic water horse. Polo is just just sorry shallow pool. The
• 1:05:24
  horses could just stand in it and wet and annoying. I think two,
• 1:05:30
  Yeah, I think probably too. How many is it? It's three?
• 1:05:32
  And nickname two of them as sage and jumping are two of them? What
• 1:05:35
  was the third? The third one is inventing, so they just like coordinate
• 1:05:41
  conferences. I assume okay, they planning. You went way over on the
• 1:05:49
  carrots gund ridiculous tubes. Requited love with best friend. I need help.
• 1:06:02
  I have this best friend who I am so deeply in love with. Our
• 1:06:08
  connection is so strong and he feels like my soulmate. We hang out all
• 1:06:12
  the time and are stuff looking at me. Nick, We hang out all
• 1:06:15
  the time, and we are always again always with those bedroom eyes. We
• 1:06:19
  hang out all the time and are always on the phone or air. It
• 1:06:21
  is with those horses in front of you. I like it. Where was
• 1:06:30
  I? Oh? We hang out all the time and they're always on the
• 1:06:32
  phone or texting. He knows how I feel about him, but he says
• 1:06:36
  he doesn't return my feelings enough to be my official boyfriend. Everyone thinks we
• 1:06:43
  are taking before Rush shipped out to the Nave. When I got to the
• 1:06:53
  Navy said I was just their Horseemo. I'm just a seaman in the Atlantic
• 1:07:05
  in a job. You know what weird? I wonder if this human was
• 1:07:16
  hoping that's what we would do with it. I think that's what you get
• 1:07:20
  when you write it about therapy. There's there's really no fun in this movie.
• 1:07:26
  I cannot your song with the letter. All right? Fine? Uh,
• 1:07:33
  I've told my friend we hang out all the time and we're always on
• 1:07:36
  the phone or texting. He knows how I feel about him, but he
• 1:07:39
  says he doesn't return my feelings enough to be my official boyfriend. Everyone thinks
• 1:07:44
  we are dating because we are affectionate with each other and always together. We
• 1:07:47
  act like any couple does with how frequently we talk and interact. We have
• 1:07:53
  sex often and have an intense emotional connection. I don't understand why or how
• 1:07:59
  he doesn't feel the same about me, since he likes having sex with me
• 1:08:02
  and he wants to talk to me all the time. He says he can't
• 1:08:06
  explain it, and it is so confusing to me, but that isn't the
• 1:08:11
  part I need help with. At this point, I feel used by him
• 1:08:15
  and like he's only keeping me around until he finds someone else he likes enough
• 1:08:18
  for him to commit to. I've told him I can no longer engage in
• 1:08:23
  any sex or cuddles since it is too difficult for me. But he still
• 1:08:27
  wants to talk and hang out with me twenty four to seven. But at
• 1:08:30
  this point even that is getting too hard. Everyone tells me to cut him
• 1:08:34
  off completely because I'm so in love with him and I need to heal so
• 1:08:39
  I can find someone who I am enough for. Here's what I need help
• 1:08:43
  with. How on earth do I let go of my very best friend.
• 1:08:48
  I feel like I can't go on without him, but it's breaking my heart
• 1:08:51
  that I fill the girlfriend roll for him, but just until he finds someone
• 1:08:57
  else to replace me. Should I cut him off cold turkey or just deal
• 1:09:00
  with the pain that comes from having him in my life while I'm suffering with
• 1:09:05
  this unrequited love? Am I doing myself a disservice? Thanks Anonymous, Wow,
• 1:09:15
  I'm glad you got a picture of Nick flashing me the bedroom eyes while
• 1:09:18
  I read the unrequited life. Yeah, I agree with your friends. Yeah,
• 1:09:28
  yeah, this is a doing that. The advice is what you want
• 1:09:38
  to do. No, I yeah, this is uh, it's just gonna
• 1:09:45
  get worse. Yeah, I mean because if I hypothetically, if you just
• 1:09:47
  decide that let's just continue this and I'll just find some way to work through
• 1:09:53
  my feelings. You're right, there's somebody else that's gonna come along at some
• 1:09:57
  point. There's gonna be somebody else, and you're going to be right there.
• 1:10:00
  And it's and when somebody else comes along, by the way, you
• 1:10:04
  don't stick around as that friend anymore. Oh yeah, somebody else doesn't want
• 1:10:11
  his old fuck buddy hanging around with him. Oh yeah, you're done.
• 1:10:14
  You're on borrowed time. Yeah. Yeah, I hope, I hope this
• 1:10:17
  doesn't come across as too harsh. But yeah, this guy that's I don't
• 1:10:23
  see it a way out for you that ends up being your dating now.
• 1:10:27
  Yeah, And it's for your own good. This is you know, it's
• 1:10:30
  you got to look out for yourself. And I just I feel like i'd
• 1:10:33
  be too worried right now that you're just you're allowing yourself to be put in
• 1:10:40
  a very vulnerable position where at some point it's going to really hurt worse than
• 1:10:44
  it does already. Yeah, and I realize it already hurts and it's not
• 1:10:46
  going to get any better. I don't think. Yeah, if I were
• 1:10:50
  your friend, I would. I would just be like, let's go out.
• 1:10:55
  We're getting laid, and I bet your friends have done that, and
• 1:10:59
  I think you should take your friends up on that. You should help.
• 1:11:01
  Wait, what so you should take your your friend the guy? No,
• 1:11:04
  no, no, not that guy at all out. And the best way
• 1:11:10
  to get over a guy is get under another one, I think. So.
• 1:11:12
  Yeah, as the fortune cookie says, yeah, I would have said
• 1:11:15
  I would have said get on another one. But I'm a feminist, so
• 1:11:19
  I don't know that he's right. Yeah, you have to set a boundary
• 1:11:27
  and that comes from really yeah, well that obviously, but what you feel
• 1:11:36
  like, you do you deserve and you even said in here it almost is
• 1:11:42
  like torture. You know, you're he's telling you clearly what he doesn't want.
• 1:11:48
  In this case, I don't want this relationship, and I think your
• 1:11:53
  feelings are valid. It's hard to pull away from that. And that's really
• 1:11:57
  what your question is. How do I stop that in some ways if I
• 1:12:00
  do decide to cut them off, Like, how do you even do that?
• 1:12:02
  Because when you are infatuated with somebody or deeply in love with them,
• 1:12:09
  especially, I mean, how do you end that? How do you cut
• 1:12:11
  that off? Let me let's let's play let's play out scenario, Whitney.
• 1:12:15
  Let's say that you and I. Let's say that you and I are friends.
• 1:12:16
  Let's start. Let's start with that. Imagine making every month I come
• 1:12:28
  to you and say, Whitney, I need two hundred dollars to pay to
• 1:12:31
  pay bills. And every month you give me that two hundred dollars and uh,
• 1:12:38
  and you know there's no you know, there's there's no talk of me
• 1:12:41
  paying it back or whatever. You assume that you're giving this to me as
• 1:12:44
  a gift because we're buddies and you want me to be taken care of in
• 1:12:47
  this imaginary circumstance, so sugar mama. And then you find out one day
• 1:12:56
  that I am taking that two hundred dollars and I'm just going to the are
• 1:13:00
  and and I'm just spending two hundred dollars at the bar every month on your
• 1:13:04
  dime. How would you feel at that point? I feel used. Exactly,
• 1:13:11
  you feel used. I should stop paying that. That's not what I'm
• 1:13:15
  saying. Yeah, you're really getting the wrong idea. It's like she wasn't
• 1:13:21
  even availability as a metaphor. But I mean, like, whether this guy
• 1:13:31
  has bad intentions or not, I'm sure he probably doesn't. I mean you
• 1:13:35
  are y'all are friends or whatever you know him, But I mean to some
• 1:13:39
  degree he's using you. Well, he sounds like writer has landed on that.
• 1:13:43
  Yeah. Yeah, at some point it sounds like it may have been
• 1:13:48
  a mutually beneficial type of relationship and it clearly is not at this point.
• 1:13:56
  And obviously he has no reason to change it. Yeah, because he's still
• 1:14:00
  getting kind of what he needs on getting laid and enjoying it. Yeah,
• 1:14:04
  and they stopped having sex, so like, yeah, make sure we catch
• 1:14:08
  that. But I think, uh lost my train of thought. There it
• 1:14:14
  is, there, it is. It's pulling into the station tangent. He's
• 1:14:18
  getting what he needs out of it. At one point they were both getting
• 1:14:21
  what they needed out of it. He said, the guy that's gonna surprise
• 1:14:30
  always comes back always. What are you going to say? I do want
• 1:14:33
  to say in the defense, So, Okay, he's in the defense of
• 1:14:38
  the guy, he's taking a bottle of pepper spray out of her purse shack.
• 1:14:45
  All right, I want to defend the guy a little bit because I
• 1:14:47
  feel like letters like this, or if a person's talking to their friends and
• 1:14:51
  they're telling the story, the immediate stereotyping or just type casting of the roles
• 1:14:59
  is all this exploitative, lying, douchebag taking advantage. And BOYD does that
• 1:15:05
  not sound what this letter said? This letter? Yeah, And so I
• 1:15:09
  just want to speak that because I would just want to acknowledge it. And
• 1:15:11
  I'm not accusing any of you of doing this, but I'm just saying,
• 1:15:14
  well, I think you are all so no, but like, look,
• 1:15:16
  it's an adult, consensual relationship. All cards were on the table, and
• 1:15:21
  you said this is for fun and we're just enjoying it and it's getting better
• 1:15:26
  and better. And then somebody developed feelings. Okay, that happens. And
• 1:15:31
  then when approached honestly about it, the friend says, I do not reciprocate
• 1:15:35
  your feelings, but I also don't not like you, and I'm gonna I'm
• 1:15:40
  available for whatever. If you're comfortable with this, great, but I'm not
• 1:15:44
  available to go beyond that and now you're a grown woman and you think about
• 1:15:46
  what you want to do. And she came back after talking about it with
• 1:15:49
  her friends and said, I would like to not have sex anymore. And
• 1:15:53
  we don't see a letter where the guy says, fuck you, bitch,
• 1:15:55
  I'm not No. He's like okay, And now she's like, well,
• 1:15:58
  we're not having sex anymore. We're just regular friends now, and he's not
• 1:16:01
  putting up a fuss. He's being fine. There's no negative energy from from
• 1:16:04
  boy here. But Writer is saying, I'm struggling because I am in love
• 1:16:10
  with somebody who doesn't love me back, and I need to decide do I
• 1:16:14
  stay in friendship proximity to that human or do I walk away? And that's
• 1:16:18
  so hard to do. I remember what I was gonna say, nail it.
• 1:16:21
  Well, I want to say what I want to say first. I'm
• 1:16:25
  joking. I'm kidding. Fuck I forgot I remember. Okay, Uh,
• 1:16:34
  Writer, thank you, you could do it. Whatever you do, decide,
• 1:16:40
  Okay, do so with the intent that this is about you and not
• 1:16:46
  about trying to change him. Okay, Okay, because I know what you
• 1:16:51
  may be thinking, because I've been in similar situations and I've thought this that
• 1:16:57
  like, Okay, well I'm gonna put up these boundaries, and then when
• 1:17:00
  I put up these boundaries, it will influence this other person and then they
• 1:17:05
  will change right to what I want them to. And I'm really just trying
• 1:17:10
  to control the exactly good point exactly So when you set these boundaries, remember
• 1:17:15
  you're setting these boundaries for you with the understanding that this could be it and
• 1:17:19
  we could be done. But you're not trying to change the other person.
• 1:17:24
  That's awesome. He's adding more instruments. I was going to get it good.
• 1:17:30
  He created a song. We're really close to having new uh a new
• 1:17:36
  song? Oh yeah, that was almost the logo. Well, yeah,
• 1:17:40
  what's the word Instead of boundaries, they a blank an ultimatum. Yeah,
• 1:17:45
  it's not an ultimatum, it's a boundary. Yeah. So when I was
• 1:17:49
  young, like a teenager ish, I had a situation similar, not quite
• 1:17:57
  as in depth as this writer, but it is very much what you were
• 1:18:00
  saying, Nick, where I was like, oh, I really like hanging
• 1:18:03
  around this person. We had been friends and then it's like, oh,
• 1:18:05
  you know what, I think I like them more. And I told them
• 1:18:09
  and they were like, oh, you know I really, I really like
• 1:18:12
  you, but like not like that. I think we should remain siblings.
• 1:18:17
  She gonna let you sit with poor siblings. One hundred grand of liquid you
• 1:18:33
  go sharing Texas, pew pew. I wanted to get fants that first line.
• 1:18:51
  I was gonna get fans that first line. This show you started that,
• 1:19:00
  you started us in the gutter, and we've just stayed there. Mine
• 1:19:04
  was just an observation. That's mine too, served baby battleship filled with horses.
• 1:19:17
  But no, my, my, my boundary, I said, But
• 1:19:21
  it felt very true to me. It was like you put that tape line
• 1:19:25
  across the middle of the bedroom. I'm gonna I'm gonna get you, Jacob.
• 1:19:28
  It's not gonna end well. And do me a favor. See this
• 1:19:35
  little deer swiveled that around. Yes, just like that, you look at
• 1:19:43
  me. So yeah, that was my boundary, and I truly felt that
• 1:19:48
  I can't. My burbage was I cannot just be friends with you because I
• 1:19:53
  like you more than that. So if you don't want to tell me,
• 1:19:56
  and I'm gonna peace out, you know, I'll be over here. You
• 1:19:59
  do you all good, But it's so hard if you you know, want
• 1:20:03
  more than I want that and so and that had come after there was at
• 1:20:08
  least, like I don't know, at least two other conversations about you know,
• 1:20:13
  liking each other not And so that's where I can really relate to this
• 1:20:15
  writer. And it's it's hard to get to that point, but I think
• 1:20:19
  that's where you get where you're just like, this feels kind of like torture
• 1:20:23
  because yeah, and I think you're within your rights and your story writers story,
• 1:20:27
  you're within your rights to say this isn't going to be okay for me.
• 1:20:30
  I like also framing it as and you're not a bad person. No,
• 1:20:33
  you're being honest with me, and I appreciate that. Yeah, but
• 1:20:38
  I can't do this. But I also want to imagine what it's like to
• 1:20:41
  be that friend where somebody you really care about and you are really connected with
• 1:20:45
  is saying, hey, I need more than this, and then you're like,
• 1:20:47
  god, damn it, I don't want to lose you as my friend,
• 1:20:49
  Like we what we have is a really cool bond. And that guy,
• 1:20:54
  yeah, like it could be a guy, and I could definitely see
• 1:20:57
  scenarios where it's the girl and she's like, I don't want to lose you.
• 1:20:59
  You're my best friend. But if I don't become your girlfriend, I
• 1:21:01
  am going to lose you. And how do I feel about that? Okay,
• 1:21:04
  that's kind of fucked up there, Like that's so I was gonna ask
• 1:21:09
  this earlier. I mean, I know you're like, oh, the guy's
• 1:21:12
  not an asshole. I don't want to go that route, and he's not,
• 1:21:15
  But like, where when eventually is there some responsibility on the guy being
• 1:21:19
  like, oh, yeah, you've told me you really like me, you
• 1:21:23
  want more, and yeah, I'm just still gonna like, I don't know,
• 1:21:27
  so i'll tell you it's in this. He's got very very few options,
• 1:21:31
  right because if he's hooking up with his friend and they started off with
• 1:21:35
  this consensual, no strings attached, this is for fun thing, and then
• 1:21:39
  she catches feelings, she's like, I have feelings for you, he has
• 1:21:42
  very few options because if he goes, okay, we should stop seeing each
• 1:21:45
  other, we should stop being romantic because I don't have feelings for you.
• 1:21:47
  Let's be platonic. Then it's like, okay, it was all well and
• 1:21:50
  good until I got feelings. Then you fucking cut me off and threw me
• 1:21:53
  away. It's like no, no, no, no, no, no,
• 1:21:55
  no, no, uh what do you want to do? Like,
• 1:21:58
  how about I'm available for whatever you want to do? And she's like,
• 1:22:00
  I want you to be on my boyfriend, Like I can't do that,
• 1:22:01
  and she's like, okay, well then I don't want to lose you,
• 1:22:03
  so we're going to stay at this. I don't know what his move is
• 1:22:08
  supposed to be. No, it's it's can very much be that first thing.
• 1:22:12
  In my opinion, to say I'm making this decision on your behalf,
• 1:22:15
  not on your going to end, but your own behalf too, because you
• 1:22:17
  are kind of that to me is almost like leading on a little bit.
• 1:22:21
  If you're really friends with this person, who care about them, you're not
• 1:22:24
  just about feminine. I think you can let her make her own choices.
• 1:22:29
  It's both though, if you're friends, it's both, Like in my opinion,
• 1:22:32
  I don't know, like yeah, I don't know responsible for their relationship,
• 1:22:39
  like whatever their relationship looks like they are both responsible for. Yeah.
• 1:22:43
  I like how that's worded thank you with you're welcome. That's all you're getting
• 1:22:47
  from me is stare at those dear eyes. Yea, you you look at
• 1:22:50
  those I apologize. I know you guys are having a serious conversation. I
• 1:22:56
  just thinking of Simpling being the first song for Super Sugar. Oh, sim
• 1:23:09
  there's nothing with semen and seafood sugar cookies in there. So this is going
• 1:23:14
  on the album. One of our track Yeah, the WHRSE siblings a romance
• 1:23:25
  living on the same bad Oh if you will, Tad Dick writer, this
• 1:23:35
  is a tough one. I mean, okay, so how do we do?
• 1:23:38
  We all agree that if you if you can't stop the feelings, which
• 1:23:43
  of course you can't, I wanted you need to claim space for yourself.
• 1:23:46
  Yes, I agree with that completely, But then the question is how I
• 1:23:49
  do want to back up to this? Sounds like I'm blaming the guy,
• 1:23:56
  uh more than I want to. Uh. But the guy knows earlier,
• 1:24:01
  like your profession of love was not the first time that this guy thought about,
• 1:24:08
  Oh hey she's getting into me. Okay, that wasn't You don't think
• 1:24:13
  he was caught off guard. I don't. But then he's not obligated to
• 1:24:16
  lie, certainly not. But I I really wish for the sake of the
• 1:24:23
  friendship, I wish that something had been done earlier, because now is like
• 1:24:30
  now is awfully late. Now especially when it comes to saving the friendship relationship
• 1:24:33
  part of this. They're not tough spot and like it's going to take openness
• 1:24:39
  on both of your parts, and and drawing some very clear boundaries all of
• 1:24:44
  those types of things. I don't know. Question for the room, do
• 1:24:48
  you think there is a way for writer to keep the friendship and release the
• 1:24:55
  feelings? What do you think is it possible to somehow person opinion? But
• 1:25:00
  I don't don't think they go away? How do you stop being in love
• 1:25:03
  with somebody? If you want to say possible, like fine, possible,
• 1:25:08
  likely? Yeah, let me tell you about how I used to feel about
• 1:25:11
  mc hammer. Okay, we don't have time for that. Find me as
• 1:25:15
  a human now barely think of him. You know about a single song that
• 1:25:19
  played on Jim's cassette that wasn't can't touch This? Well there was the B
• 1:25:24
  side which there, God damn, I can't remember what his second song was,
• 1:25:27
  he had two. It wasn't legit hammer time. This is the way
• 1:25:31
  we roll? Oh, don't you start, don't don't discography me. Come
• 1:25:36
  on, God damn it. You're talking about you're talking about the wheelhouse of
• 1:25:41
  our generation. Now get into water too deep? Young and Cassette and my
• 1:25:47
  first CD. I don't know again, Like, here's the thing is,
• 1:25:55
  when you try to be friends, even if they were like if they had
• 1:25:59
  a romantic relationship, okay, which they didn't, but like one person did,
• 1:26:03
  the other person did not. What happens when he finds a Girlfriendly,
• 1:26:09
  what role are you going to play there? And also because that's going to
• 1:26:12
  be hard to watch, it's gonna be hard to sit on the sidelines and
• 1:26:15
  watch that. It's also going to be really hard for her to find to
• 1:26:18
  move on with him there every day. Yeah, Like if y'all, if
• 1:26:24
  the person you're hanging out with is this guy you're missing, that's it.
• 1:26:28
  Yeah, I mean, I I don't know. If I if I were
• 1:26:31
  your buddy, I bet I would say you gotta not hang out with this
• 1:26:35
  guy for a bit. Even Yeah, I was gonna say, even if
• 1:26:39
  it's just a break, even if it's just like you know what, you
• 1:26:42
  know, I'll see where I'm at in a couple months, that's it.
• 1:26:45
  You know. So writer is asking us toward the end, is saying,
• 1:26:48
  like, how does do I do this? Do I cut him off cold
• 1:26:51
  turkey or just deal with the pain that comes from having him in my life
• 1:26:57
  while I'm suffering. So I think I think most of us are lining on
• 1:27:00
  the side of exit plan. Yeah, but then this question of Cold Turkey,
• 1:27:05
  is there a conversation, Is there a hey, I exist, but
• 1:27:09
  like we're not going to do this daily simulating relationship level connection of friendship,
• 1:27:15
  Like that's it? Actually that that that's really it, Like the simulating of
• 1:27:17
  the relationship, widen the gap. Maybe that's I think that might be causing
• 1:27:21
  some problems. Yeah, right right, says not Cold Turkey. Take the
• 1:27:26
  ramp, like I say, exit slowly. Yeah, I don't think you
• 1:27:28
  have to say like let's never speak again starting right now, okay, but
• 1:27:31
  like, yeah, let's take a little break. Uh, because I hadn't
• 1:27:35
  even thought about that. That that's I think you're exactly on it. Uh,
• 1:27:39
  simulating the whole relationship there, that's what's going to keep you from being
• 1:27:43
  able to move on. That's what's gonna keep you being able to move forward.
• 1:27:45
  And the friendship is so close even without the sex. And also like
• 1:27:49
  if you keep on even if it is like even if the ultimate goal is
• 1:27:54
  to still get back with this guy. Yeah, as you end this,
• 1:27:58
  this moment of the relationship. Uh even if you say, like, hey,
• 1:28:00
  let's take a break and in six months, man, I'm I'm gonna
• 1:28:04
  come for you, and I'm I'm gonna win you back in six months.
• 1:28:08
  And because right now, neither of you can move on from where you're at,
• 1:28:12
  Like you're you're in a spot right different and so like continuing on what
• 1:28:15
  you have his feelings aren't gonna change. Kind of sounds like you're saying you
• 1:28:18
  need at least like a detox. Yeah yeah, I like that idea.
• 1:28:24
  Maybe do a lot of drugs. Well, if you really want to fuck
• 1:28:29
  you want to come play hardball, fucking date his horse. You know that's
• 1:28:31
  he gets jealous then all of a sudden, if he has to be attractive
• 1:28:38
  family members, oh yeah, yeah, like if he has a twin brother,
• 1:28:44
  Oh yeah, huge rail that guy birthday right here right in for the
• 1:28:56
  quality of our look dad, yeah, oh even better, Grandpa. Just
• 1:29:02
  take a job in the nursing home. You know today, I'm an arborist.
• 1:29:11
  You didn't love me. Oh writer, this is a tough one.
• 1:29:14
  But you know what, I think we're all rooting for you to go through
• 1:29:16
  some kind of exiting plan. I don't think anybody likes you sitting there suffering
• 1:29:20
  any No, that's tough. I don't like you in proximity to this.
• 1:29:25
  It didn't work out. I think you're handling it well. I mean,
• 1:29:29
  the way you write this letter, you're not villainizing, you're not unkind,
• 1:29:31
  you don't sound bitter. You sound like you are navigating something complex and that
• 1:29:38
  you've already made really big choices that look like boundary setting to see if that
• 1:29:42
  would fix it, to see if you be okay, And now you're noticing.
• 1:29:45
  No, authentically, I still have feelings even though we you know,
• 1:29:47
  reduce this to platonic And now I need to make a next decision. And
• 1:29:51
  I respect you for that. It's a very hard decision. But I think
• 1:29:55
  I'm self aware. The whole letter is very self aware, very self aware.
• 1:30:00
  Yeah, I'm with Whitney. I really think that I don't see a
• 1:30:03
  way that you can maintain this friendship, even if you can demote it to
• 1:30:08
  like, I don't know, like I see your coming. Yeah, I
• 1:30:12
  mean maybe that maybe you don't have to cut this person off like they're dead
• 1:30:15
  to you. But but like, hey, do you need something to text
• 1:30:17
  me? But I need yea, I'm gonna need some space. Yeah,
• 1:30:20
  yeah, yeah, now, good question. You don't want to end up
• 1:30:24
  like Whitney and her brother. Thanksgiving is so fucking awkward, just terrible.
• 1:30:33
  Thank you the show would remind you. You can sign up at patreon dot
• 1:30:40
  com slash therapy. You can get the extended show ad free to day early,
• 1:30:44
  as well as enjoy our live chat discord community in our weekly deep dives,
• 1:30:46
  interviews, skill shares, research roundups, and rants uh. This week
• 1:30:50
  I added a fifth installment of Questions Every Therapist Should Ask Themselves. Really interesting
• 1:30:57
  series based on the writings of Carl Rogers, one of the great Check it
• 1:31:00
  out patreon dot com slash therapy. We've got some new friends in the therap
• 1:31:04
  party who joined us. Nick. We got a new therapod, Jesse Miller.
• 1:31:10
  Welcome to the show. Welcome. We got a new theodactyl, eight
• 1:31:14
  armed praying mantis. Yeah, and hot off the press as we were recording.
• 1:31:20
  We're a little bit ago, I think before we started recording, we
• 1:31:24
  got another new theradactyl. Oh, yeah, we did. Adam and his
• 1:31:30
  last name Jim and I have both mispronounced, and he let us have it
• 1:31:34
  at scoop Fest. Yes, and it's not rabisnic I guess not that guy.
• 1:31:46
  Guess what I read the names Adam actually got on the Knicks list.
• 1:31:51
  Yeah, you do, theradactyls. That's probably why he probably just threw more
• 1:31:56
  money because he was sick and tired of me. He's like, that's it.
• 1:32:00
  I'm going to next pronunciation. Thank you, Adam, appreciate your long
• 1:32:04
  term support. Of course, we also want to thank our therap partners.
• 1:32:08
  Oh wait, before we do reviews. Update on reviews. We have officially
• 1:32:13
  passed one hundred. We are one hundred and one reviews. Our average score
• 1:32:17
  now is four point seven. We do have a good handful of one and
• 1:32:21
  two stars. Fuck you guys in the neck. But all the people those
• 1:32:27
  people left us. Yeah, okay, did you read the one, no,
• 1:32:30
  one and two stars? Because it shows that the reviews are actually reading.
• 1:32:33
  That's true, that's true. Yeah, yeah, I'd never trust So
• 1:32:36
  there's all five stars. Okay. So I do a lot of trainings,
• 1:32:40
  as you know. Yeah, and we did, and he runs a lot
• 1:32:44
  of trainings. At the end, everybody fills out a form. Oh yeah
• 1:32:50
  right, the feedback. Yeah, every single time, I always get one
• 1:32:57
  person who does all strongly disagree. Oh no top to bond on every But
• 1:33:06
  here's the thing. They also never provide any other Yeah, no, that's
• 1:33:11
  always anonymous. Yeah, it's blanks in all the comments ways you can improve
• 1:33:15
  you. You never put anything to my great credit anytime I have attended CEUs
• 1:33:20
  that you have taught. I have never done that, and I have always
• 1:33:25
  thought about it, and I just thought just really random references that your boss
• 1:33:31
  would eventually look at him be like wait, what, Like I didn't appreciate
• 1:33:35
  the Holocaust jokes, like what the fuck? But yeah, to my enormous
• 1:33:41
  credit, I never have. So good for you. Yeah, you're fucking
• 1:33:45
  welcome. I absolutely thought about it, just loaded gun on the table,
• 1:33:48
  never used it. But then you realize you have more to lose than I
• 1:33:51
  do. I realize you will beat me when it comes. When it comes,
• 1:33:55
  just beat me up really quickly. And the way it comes to leaving
• 1:33:57
  negative reviews, oh yeah, yeah, yeah you career. Yeah yeah,
• 1:34:00
  you can burn me down way faster. Yeah you will cockroach at the end
• 1:34:04
  of World War three, Yeah you'll be fine. Crawl out of the tunnel.
• 1:34:09
  But yeah, so thank you everybody that got us over one hundred.
• 1:34:11
  We're at one hundred and one, no new ones to read. We just
• 1:34:14
  got a lot of silent warriors and they're jumping in and giving us those fives.
• 1:34:16
  If you listen to the show, if we're part of your weekly life,
• 1:34:19
  if you are an Apple user, take a second, jump in there
• 1:34:24
  really quick, just hit the five button. If you want to say a
• 1:34:26
  few words and make me read it out loud, go for it. We
• 1:34:29
  will read anything that is five stars. I will just do that. So
• 1:34:32
  write out your entire tire memoir memoir. Yeah. Yeah, We've had a
• 1:34:35
  lot of songs label it as a drop. So there's at least one hundred
• 1:34:39
  people have listened to this podcast, at least one hundred and one hundred one.
• 1:34:43
  Yeah, not all of them liked it, but one hundred and one
• 1:34:45
  at least on iTunes. So thank you that crowd. We do appreciate it.
• 1:34:48
  It goes a long way for us. And we want to thank our
• 1:34:51
  therapy partners, the benevolent, revered, generous, and flagrantly pro therapy diehards
• 1:34:56
  who love you all so much that they give till it hurts, dirty bee
• 1:35:00
  and pick it. And we want to thank our bosses, the mysterious and
• 1:35:02
  shrouded Illuminati members up the fan club, their producers. Thank you, Jake
• 1:35:05
  Schneider, Myra, Robert Brownie Junior, Mint, Smitty Scoop, Ben Don,
• 1:35:10
  Judy Schneider, Kayla Lansbury, Missus and mister Hotdog Scoop, Malia Leon
• 1:35:15
  Cassab Mason Miller, Richard Fucking Macy, Carolyn Albert, Kevin Chamberlain, Tess
• 1:35:18
  Miller, Sammy Scoop and Stanley Slapping your face, Sarah Smith, Adam Hathaway,
• 1:35:23
  Builer t Mike Helm, Paris, Samantha Cone, Darren Cunningham, Lib
• 1:35:28
  Team Monaco, Thunder Cougar, Falcon Scoop, Matt Lisa, Tanjman, heyo
• 1:35:31
  Oscar Swan ros A, Sonny Boy, Slurpecai Motherfucker, Sandra mcwaffle, Dan
• 1:35:35
  Martin, Han, Marie Andrew Langmead and Emma Kine and our friend Anna who
• 1:35:41
  joined us in the studio is shocked to realize I name all those people from
• 1:35:45
  memory, and I'm not reading them from my phone. It's a different show
• 1:35:48
  in person. Isn't it really the magic? Yeah, you realize it's hard
• 1:35:51
  work. Oh are you said he didn't get life coached? Is that what
• 1:35:56
  you're saying? Oh? And Jim even got life coached. Oh too bad,
• 1:36:00
  we missed it? Yeah, tough ship, come on done, nothing
• 1:36:08
  can be done about it? My phone numbered even on my business card.
• 1:36:12
  Yep. Maybe maybe the after show. Maybe you stick around for the last
• 1:36:15
  questions yet a shot if you would like to hear this episode uncut and unedited,
• 1:36:20
  and why wouldn't you turn around? He's giving her his card next and
• 1:36:27
  enjoy our spontaneous side projects. Go to patreon dot com slash therapy and thank
• 1:36:30
  you for supporting mental health. That's all the time again for this week's session.
• 1:36:33
  Want to think our Landlord's Matt Maddingly's ice Cream Social podcast And thanks to
• 1:36:36
  those of you contributed to our show today, we really appreciate it. Remember
• 1:36:43
  pod therapy and something to keep all of yourself. Share the show with the
• 1:36:45
  world, tag us on the socials when you do. We're at pod therapy
• 1:36:48
  Guys on Instagram, threads and Twitter, and at slash pod therapy on Facebook.
• 1:36:53
  Don't forget about all the extra goodies at patreon dot com slash therapy.
• 1:36:57
  Do you want to submit a question to the show, Ask him homously at
• 1:37:00
  podtherapy dot net or email us at pod therapy Guys at gmail dot com I'm
• 1:37:03
  next, Anjamin. Thanks and we'll see your appointment next week. Don't know
• 1:37:14
  what to do, guys, any more questions? I'll throw you a couple,
• 1:37:20
  all right. One's about mister Ed, which luxury fashion brand famously creates
• 1:37:27
  high end question