Latest / The Bold Lounge / Matt Abrahams: Empower Your Words- The Art of Bold Communication

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Matt Abrahams: Empower Your Words- The Art of Bold Communication · The Bold Lounge

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: My name is Leigh Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Every week, we'll hear from someone who has taken a leap or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things happen.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Whether they face challenges or doubts along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be freed.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Today I have Matt Abrahams.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: He is a professor, podcast host, author, speaker and a martial artist.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Matt Abrahams is a leading expert in communication, with decades of experiences as an educator, author, podcast host and coach.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: As a lecturer in organizational behavior at Stanford University's Graduate School of Business, he teaches popular classes in strategic communication and effective virtual presenting.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: He's also the author of Think Fast, talk Smart and also the podcast with the same name.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: So, from the perspective of starting off, you've done a lot of things and with your book and with your podcast, we're really going to dive into really what and how we can communicate, what ways we can improve our communication and how we can do that by thinking faster and talking smarter.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: So welcome to the lounge.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: I am thrilled to be here with you.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Thank you for the opportunity.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, so we're going to start off with your definition of bold.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: How do you define bold in your world?
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: To me, bold is being willing to stand up and share your voice and speak out what's on your mind.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: It's the ability to feel comfortable and confident in moments where many of us might not feel that way.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: But taking a bold initiative and stepping forward rather than stepping back is how I see it.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like stepping forward into it right.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Correct Do you have a moment of boldness.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: You remember.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: When you think about that definition that comes to mind.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: You know, in some ways this sounds silly.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: It sounds like it comes out of sort of one of those after-school specials for kids.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: But I distinctly remember in fourth grade a kid in my class somebody I was not necessarily friends with knew the kid was being bullied by a sixth grader.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: I went to school where it was first through sixth and I remember stepping forward and saying stop doing that, that's not a pro.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I didn't use the word appropriate.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: I essentially stepped forward and asserted that this bully should should stop doing it, and it so took him aback, because he was just he's a big kid and he was just used to getting his way that somebody actually stood up, that he stepped back and I just grabbed the kid that was being bullied and he and I just turned around and walked away and there was no other altercation.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: But I know you like to ask this question and when I was thinking, you know that's the earliest memory I have of me stepping forward and asserting something, and in this case there was, I guess, potential risk, but that to me is my first memory of being bold.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you didn't think about oh, this is uncomfortable or like all the things that could go wrong.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: It just needed to be done in that moment.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Needed to be done right.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: So sometimes bold I think bold gets a bad rap of like it's without you know, without thinking, without really you know, just jumping into something.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: But again, I think one thing here although it was more of an instantaneous decision, it was to do the right thing, which is always a quick decision, I think, for folks to make, because there's a whole continuum of boldness that we found in talking to all our guests and some of the research that I've done of.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Like you know, bold can be very quiet moment.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Bold can be a very actionable moment, like the one you had, and bold can be like a very big moment, like quitting your job without having a job and like making something happen.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: There's a whole continuum of that and I think what's interesting around that is there's different ways that we can communicate throughout that process.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Right, and I think we're going to dig into that with Think Faster and Talk Smarter.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: But I wondered this particular book.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Why did you think we needed a book about this?
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: What were you seeing with all your experiences and your teachings and your research?
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so there was one main impetus.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Somebody asked me to focus on this, but I was seeing it in my own practice.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: So, as an instructor at Stanford's Graduate School of Business, I've been there 13 years.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: I've seen this in my own classes.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: But the deans of the business school came to me and said we have a problem.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Our very bright, sharp students, some of the best business minds in the world were struggling to answer cold calls.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: You probably remember when the professor says, hey, what do you think?
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: And you had to respond.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: And so they asked is there anything I could do as the communication person on staff, to help our students feel more comfortable and confident responding even when they knew the answers?
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: And so that's what really was the catalyst for me to do a deep dive, at least academically, into addressing this problem, and I started exploring multiple fields of study psychology, anthropology, social science, neuroscience and including improvisation and from that developed a methodology that now all of our Stanford MBAs have a chance to go through in the first three weeks of their time with us, and they report feeling better.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: The professors who are asking the questions see that the responses are better and people leave not just being able to hold cold calls better, but they're able to do many other spontaneous speaking situations better and, if you think about it, most of our communication in our personal and professional lives is spontaneous, it's not planned.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: So the impetus was really to help students and it has transferred and translated far beyond that.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're going to jump into the process, but I have a question, because I know this is something that is difficult for me, which I don't know, like maybe you can help me solve, is when I plan too much, I actually mess up more meaning, like yes.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: I can't stand reading a teleprompter.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: I always want to like myth something and add something in.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: But what is it about it Like when you plan too much?
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: I'm actually much better at the spontaneous than I am the plan.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Is there something that flips when you're too planned or too over rehearsed?
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so exactly, and it has to do with cognitive load.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: So whenever we do anything we have to put our full attention to it, and if part of our brain is focused on how we should do it or want to do it, or judging and evaluating everything we say, we're splitting that bandwidth.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: You know, your brain is like a computer.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: It's not a perfect analogy, but when your laptop has lots of programs open or your phone has apps open, any one of those programs or apps is not performing up to full potential because the bandwidth is being shared.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: So I like to say the goal is connection over perfection.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: So we have to let go of that memorization and the wanting to do it right.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: And I'm not saying we don't judge and evaluate what we say, but we have to turn that volume down.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: So, just like an athlete would do drills and practice, but then when they get in the game, they're just in the moment ready to respond.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: So you should practice for planned presentations, you should think through what it is you want to say going into a meeting, but then divorce yourself from that process and just respond in the moment, and that helps all of us do better.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I just wanted to ask that question at the beginning because I think that is something in the sense of you know, when people are doing things.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: We're going to be talking about really the spontaneous, on the spot moments, and it could be why you're presenting, it could be why you're on stage, it could be why you're in the classroom or, you know, in the boardroom, wherever you may be doing this, or it might be just on the street or having a coffee chat.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: So I think it's it's helpful for people as we go through this.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Now you start off with talking about the mindset and the messaging.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: So, before we jump into the six steps, can you tell me a little bit about why we focus on understanding the two?
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Absolutely so.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Many of us carry a lot of negative mindset, experiences and approaches to our spontaneous speaking, and so we have to adjust and adapt those before we can actually focus on what it is we say in the moment.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: So, just like anything in life, the way you approach it matters to the experience you have of it.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: So we have to adjust our mindset and approach first, and that can set us up to do the messaging in the moment even better.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, excellent.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: So the first step is tame the anxiety which I think probably, if I look at all six steps, those are probably that's probably the one that I have.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: You know that can, can creep up, and you know whether it's a little bead of sweat or my face, my cheeks blushing or, you know, like being able to kind of get into that place Cause, you know, I want to do a really good job.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: My anxiety is not that I don't know what I'm talking about, that I don't.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: I don't think I'm an expert.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: It's like I'm a little nervous, right?
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: So there's symptoms and sources that create the anxiety.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit more about what you've learned about how to best tame our anxiety and what are some of the symptoms and sources of that for us?
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, thank you.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: So anxiety looms large in all communication, planned or spontaneous, and we need to address it in order to feel more comfortable and confident in what we're doing.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: So, to begin, the very first thing we need to do is we need to manage the symptoms when you talk about the beads of sweat or the shakiness of your hands and then we have to manage the sources, the things that initiate the anxiety.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: So let me give you a couple examples of what we can do to manage symptoms.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: A great thing to do is to focus on your breathing deep belly breaths the kind of thing you would do if you've ever done yoga or Tai Chi where you're really filling your lower abdomen.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: You're breathing low and slow, and there's a tremendous amount of research that says that this helps calm us down.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: It helps us focus, get present oriented.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: The key, though, is to have your exhale be twice as long as your inhale.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: The magic happens on the exhalation, so if you take a three count in, you want a six count out.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: So that's one example of something we can do to manage symptoms.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Another thing is many people get shaky.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: That's adrenaline.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Adrenaline's purpose is to move you from threat to safety.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: So we want to move, but we want to move in a way that looks purposeful and not random.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: So we don't want to sway side to side or pace, but instead, when I start, if I'm standing and presenting, I might step forward.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: If I'm sitting on a table or on a virtual call, I lean in, I gesture and that movement allows that adrenaline to dissipate and the shakiness stops.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: And there are many other things we can do to manage symptoms.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: But the other side of the equation are the sources, the things that initiate our anxiety, and for many of us, a big one is the goal we're trying to achieve.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Whenever we communicate, we have a goal.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's we want to get funding if we're an entrepreneur, or we want people to support our cause.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: So what's making us nervous is our concern about not achieving our potential future state, our goal.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: So the way to counteract that is to become present oriented, be in the moment.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: By definition, if I'm present, I'm not worried about the future.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: And you can get present oriented by doing lots of things.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Do something physical before you communicate, some light exercise, talk to people in the room before you start, do like an athlete or others who listen to a song or a playlist to get them in the present moment?
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: A very simple thing start at 100 and count backwards by a challenging number like 17.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Right, I heard you say that when I was like oh, that would definitely make you present.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Exactly Gets you present oriented.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: So when it comes to managing anxiety, we first have to deal with both symptoms and sources and then, as we build confidence, all communication, not just spontaneous communication begins to feel better.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it doesn't matter whether you're in person.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: I think you can get anxiety on Zoom right.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Do you find there's a difference between doing something electronically, virtually, versus in person when it comes to taming anxiety?
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: That's a great question.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: So, yes, I am old enough to remember when we used to say gosh, wouldn't it be great to help people feel more confident if people just didn't have to be in the room while we spoke and we could just get information across.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Well, and then the pandemic hit and that's how we all started communicating.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: People realize, you know, this sucks, this is.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: I'm actually more nervous, and the reason is, when you're virtual, we can't see the responses that we normally receive, and so human beings are very visual, connected species, and if I can't see all of that, it makes me very uncomfortable.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: So there are differences.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Now, some of these techniques that I've talked about many of them translate.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Deep breathing is going to help you on either end, and, in fact, virtually deep breathing can even be easier, because when you're in a meeting and it's not your turn to speak, you simply hit the mute button.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: I can sit here looking like.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: I'm yeah, take a really deep breath.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Doing deep breaths, right.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: But there are things I can do virtually that can help.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: So, for example, I can ask people for feedback in the moment.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: The moment I can send a chat privately to you and say is this landing, is this making sense?
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: So I can get feedback in a way that I can't when I'm in person.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: So, yes, it's a different beast.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: We still get anxious, in some cases more anxious when virtual than in person but we can still do things to help ourselves feel better.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, have you always been like an easy breezy.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: I can speak on the spot.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: No, no.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Well, easy breezy is not something that would describe me Well.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: I have always had a lot of experience speaking in the moment.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: My last name is Abrahams AB.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I always went first in school.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: You know teachers.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: I am a teacher and sometimes we get lazy and we just see people alphabetically.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: So I often knew where I would sit and I would often be called on first.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: So, even though I had a lot of reps, I was a nervous speaker.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: It took me a long time applying some of the techniques that I studied and have written about, and now I'm a much more confident speaker.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: But there are still times where I will get nervous and I will deploy some of the techniques that we've talked about and others to help me feel better.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: some of the techniques that we've talked about and others to help me feel better.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, excellent.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: So the next step is maximizing mediocrity, which sounds really interesting coming from a Stanford professor.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I borrow this from lessons that I've learned in improvisation and I am by no means an expert in improv, but improv has this notion of dare to be dull just do what needs to be done.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: And many of us this goes back to what we were talking about earlier many of us want to do our communication perfectly.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: We want to do it right.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: I am here to tell you and all of your listeners there is no right way to communicate.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: There are better ways and worse ways, but there is no one right way.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: And putting so much pressure on ourselves to do it right gets in the way of us doing it well at all.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: And this is why I tell my students on the very first day of a strategic communication class, I say the goal is to maximize mediocrity, and you should see their jaws drop.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: They have never been told to be mediocre.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Yet they understand the logic after we go through the discussion of cognitive bandwidth and I have them reflect on times where they did really well in the moment versus those where they didn't, and they begin to see that they are their biggest barrier to success.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: And that is this judging, the evaluation, the trying to be perfect, other than just connect with the audience.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: So I end my first class by saying maximize mediocrity so you can achieve communication greatness.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: By allowing yourself and giving yourself permission just to get the communication done, just to connect, just to share your thoughts, you actually free yourself up to do it a lot better.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: So that's a really hard lesson for us to learn but, it's a very powerful lesson.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: You have to let go the judgment, the judgment of yourself and the judgment, I guess, that potentially could come from your audience.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: It's letting go of the judgment of yourself and the concern about the judgment for your audience, and the first step to this is to realize just how much judging of ourselves we do.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: So I do that.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: May I share an activity I do in my class.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: I rely a lot on improvisation activities because they're fun, they're lighthearted, low stakes.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: So I have my students play this improv game and any of your listeners can play it.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: You simply, in the environment you're in, you point at different objects and you call them something other than they are.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: The game's called shout the wrong name.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: So I might point at a window and call it a computer, I might point at the ceiling and call it a doorknob, it does not matter.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: The goal is to as quickly as you can point to things and call them something other than they are.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: And for many of us this is incredibly hard.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: And when you get down to it, it's because we are judging and evaluating what we're saying.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: I had a student once, I kid you not, he was pointing at a chair and nothing was coming out of his mouth.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: I had a student once, I kid you not, he was pointing at a chair and nothing was coming out of his mouth.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: And as a teacher, when you see something like this, you approach.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: I'm like tell me what's going on for you.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: And he said I am not being wrong enough.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: I'm not being wrong enough.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: I want you to think about this, that nowhere in the instructions do I say what is a good, wrong, right?
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: I just call it a wrong name and I said tell me more.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: And he said well, I was going to call the chair a cat, but a cat has four legs and sometimes a cat sits on a chair.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: I wasn't being wrong enough.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: And the point of this is we all do this level of machination and evaluation that gets in the way, and we have to first be aware of it.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: You can't stop judging or reducing the judging that you're doing until you're aware that you do it, and then we can begin to dial it back.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: So the first step is awareness.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it reminds me of Amy Edmondson's the Right Kind of Wrong and Intelligent Failure.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Right, you know?
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Like combining what you just said with that piece of her research too.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Amy is a friend and she's actually going to be on my podcast shortly.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Me, as a friend and she's actually going to be on my podcast shortly and her approach to leaning into the right kind of failure and allowing yourself permission is exactly what we're talking about.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly Okay.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: One of my favorite topics is mindset.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: When you're being bold, stepping into the fears, moving forward, doing it when it's not guaranteed to go a hundred percent right, like there's a lot of conversation in our community around that.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: What does it mean to mind your mindset when it comes to communicating on the spot?
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so many of us see the speaking that we do in the moment as threatening, challenging to us.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: So imagine somebody says I'm going to ask you questions when you're done with your presentation.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: Or somebody says I really need your help and I want your feedback on this.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Many of us in those moments can feel tremendous pressure.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: We feel threatened and challenged.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: I want to get it done.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: I need to be in service of these people.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: It really can feel threatening and what that does is it changes our entire demeanor.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: We retreat, we make ourselves small, our answers tend to be too brief, our tone becomes curt, maybe even harsh.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: So we need to reframe these situations as opportunities, not threats or challenges.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: So when somebody asks me a question, even if it's a spicy, harsh question, it's really for me an opportunity to connect, to extend, to expand what I've said, to learn, and so these are ways that I can actually better myself by seeing it as an opportunity.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: It changes my demeanor.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: I'll approach, my answers or responses will be more lengthy, my tone will be more collaborative.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: So we need to reframe these not as threats and challenges but as opportunities, and this boils down in many ways to the approach that comes from improvisation of yes, and if you know anything about improv, you know that you embrace whatever life gives you.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Exactly, and then you move forward.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: So that's what I mean by minding your mindset we have to think about how we're approaching these things and how we put it in a positive light so we feel more excited to do it than dread doing it.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: And then, as you think about that, as we kind of move into step four, which is don't just do something, stand there, talk a little bit about that.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: And then secondarily, like how do we read the room?
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: How do we because sometimes you can pick up on energy if you're in person, that you're like okay, I'm not sure if they're listening, they're on their phone or they're not paying attention Like how, when we look at this step number four, does it connect with reading the room, or maybe that's an another step?
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: So reading the room is.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: I associate reading the room with listening.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: So this notion of don't just do something standard.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Not only do I just love the irony of that, but sometimes the most important thing that we can do in the moment is nothing is just be present, be supportive, be observant.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: And yet many of us, when we're in spontaneous speaking situations, we feel an incredible pressure and urgency to respond right away.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: So when somebody asks us a question, we feel an incredible pressure and urgency to respond right away.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: So when somebody asks us a question, we feel like we have to respond immediately.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: When somebody asks for feedback, we feel like we have to give that feedback right away.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: We can actually take a pause and reflect and move forward.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: We can say, hey, give me a moment to think about it.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Or we can ask a clarifying question, or we can paraphrase there are things we can do to buy ourselves time so we don't have to feel this urgency to do something right away.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: So this notion of being present allows us to listen better, to observe what's happening, so we can notice the nuance and respond appropriately.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: I'll give you an example, and I use this example a lot.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Imagine you and I are coming out of a meeting and you ask me for feedback and I immediately say, oh, feedback, ok, here's what you did wrong, here's what you could do better, here's what you should do next time.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: But had I really paused for a moment, I might have noticed that you were looking down when you asked.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: You were speaking a little more quietly.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: You had actually exited the back door rather than the front door.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: In noticing all of that, I might have come to the conclusion that you really didn't want feedback.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: What you wanted was support in that moment, and by itemizing and delineating all the things you did wrong, I'm actually actively working against what you needed in that moment.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: So sometimes doing nothing allows you to ascertain what should be done if you take that beat to figure it out.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so one thing there that you talked about was obviously noticing body language.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: So when we're talking or communicating on the spot, body language in person is a lot easier than, certainly, being virtual.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: That's probably the one thing that is harder for me presenting and also trying to look at the camera and make sure I'm answering the chat or make sure my team's doing this or that.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: It's definitely more of a production actually virtually than in person.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's how I ask people to think about it.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Think of it as like a television producer.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, pretty much yeah.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: So when we're thinking about looking at body language our own as the presenter and of our audience what are key things to notice and what are key things just to ignore?
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: yes.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: So when, when focused on others, we have to realize that a lot of what we see isn't always what we think.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: The trouble with the notion of body language is a language is you have symbols that represent a specific meaning, and what happens in body language is we don't have that congruence.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: You know, I can cross my arms in front of my chest and you might think, oh, he's not happy with what I said because he's looking very self-protective.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: It could be that I'm just cold, or it could be I don't know where to put my hands.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: So my point is this what you see is not always what you get when it comes to non-verbals.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: So the advice I have when especially with others, is look for patterns across people, so not just with one person, but across people.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: So if everybody's looking confused or everybody's crossing their arms, that might mean something different than if you just focus on one person.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: So look for patterns, and that's really what the notion of thinking faster is all about.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: The book's called Think Faster, talk Smarter.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Thinking faster is really this pattern recognition.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: It's training yourself to recognize certain patterns.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Think of an athlete.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: What makes an elite athlete really good is they're very quick at recognizing patterns and then they adjust and adapt based on their training.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: That's what reading the room is is.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: It's noticing patterns.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: It's noticing that, hey, everybody's all of a sudden getting quiet.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: There's less energy here.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: I could do something to change that.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: It's noticing that everybody's talking at once.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: I should step back so I don't confuse the situation.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: So it's observing what's being done.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: So I don't confuse the situation.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: So it's observing what's being done.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: It's for looking for patterns across people and then, when it comes to our own nonverbal presence, what we're doing with our body and voice, I think the single best thing we can do is record ourselves and watch.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: We're not good at understanding our nonverbal behavior because we are too involved in it.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: We need to watch ourselves.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: It is horrifically painful to watch yourself.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: I make my students watch their videos of their presentations.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: They do in my class not once, but three times Once with sound only, once with video only and once with both, and they hate doing it, but they love it because they learn so much.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: So I encourage everybody to look for patterns of others and then watch your videos of yourself.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, I would hate to do that myself, but I'll definitely do that now just to kind of you get more comfortable and you probably notice intentionally more things.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: I love the with the sound, only in the video, only that, that kind of doing it three times.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: So that's a great process to go through.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: All right, step five structure your spontaneity, what's your story?
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, so many of us.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: In the moment when we are speaking, we tend to ramble.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: We say more than we need to.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: We take our audience on the journey of our discovery of what it is we want to say as we're saying it, and that can be very hard for our audience to keep track.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: We've all heard people who just ramble on.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: In fact, our brains are not wired for lists.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Leah, how many items would you need to buy from the grocery store before you actually need to write them down?
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: For me, it's four.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: I was going to say three Probably.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: I can remember three, but if you get to four, then text me.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Exactly, and our brains are not wired for that kind of learning and understanding and remembering.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: So what we need to do is we need to rely on what our brains work best with, and that is structure.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Structure is nothing more than a logical connection of ideas a beginning, a middle and an end.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: If you have a structure, you in essence have a recipe and a GPS at the same time.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: I'm a lousy cook, but if I know what ingredients to put in in what order, I'm much better at it If I get lost when I'm speaking because I'm not memorizing.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Memorizing sets us up for that whole failure thing we talked about.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: It gives me directionality.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Let me give you an example of a structure.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: This is one many of us know.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: If you've ever watched a television advertisement, most of them are structured problem solution benefit.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Most of them are structured problem solution benefit.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Here's an issue or a challenge.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: The product or service resolves that.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: That's the solution, and then there's some benefit that comes as a result.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: That's a structure.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: It's a beginning, middle and an end.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: It tells a story and it's easier for us, as the communicators, to remember and it's easier for our audience to digest and process.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Love that.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: So when we think about our spontaneity and being up on stage, it is okay.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Even in those conversations of like what I'm going to say to someone even let's say we're talking to our professor or our dissertation committee like I've had experience, it's just very nerve wracking.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Or you're talking to your publisher, or you're talking to a friend you haven't talked to in a long time and you want to catch up but you're not really sure what's been going on.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: So, like, how do we not edit ourselves or how do we not?
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Is there any like tip in the sense of do we go back to kind of thinking about taming the anxiety and just going back to those particular steps?
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: So a couple of things.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, reminding ourselves about the strategies that we put in place to make ourselves feel more comfortable, making sure we're in the present moment to listen better.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: And whenever you communicate, you are in service of your audience.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: It is your job to communicate information that's beneficial to them, and when you put your focus on the audience, not yourself, it helps you be more focused and clear and concise.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: We always have to think about what's relevant and salient to our audience.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: It's not what I want to say, it's what you need to hear.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: That's important, and it is that focusing that helps me be successful in those circumstances you're describing.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Excellent, All right.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Last step the F word focus, the other F word.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: The other F word.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, I call it the F word of communication.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, focus is critical.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Again, many of us say more than we need to say.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: My mother has this wonderful saying she didn't create it, but I really appreciate it and it's to tell the time.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Don't build the clock.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: Many of us say more than we need to either, because we're discovering what we want to say as we're saying it.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: We want to show that we've been very thorough, we want to demonstrate that we really know our stuff and we end up saying more than we need to.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: So, to be concise, the most precious commodity I believe we have in the world today is attention, and if my attention as an audience member is being pulled in lots of directions and you're not being specific as a communicator, I'm not going to pay attention to you.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: So we have to be focused.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: How do you do it?
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: One, remember what's important and salient for your audience and start to build your messaging there.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: What's important for them?
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: Make sure you have a clear goal and direction for what you're saying.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: What do you want the audience to know?
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: How do you want them to feel?
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: What do you want them to do?
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: That's what makes up a good goal.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: That also helps you focus.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: So we need to really think through what's important for the audience.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: What's my goal?
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: That will help you focus.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Now, if you're writing, not speaking, you can go back and edit.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: You can think to yourself how can I make this tighter, more clear?
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: We want to avoid obtuse language and acronyms and jargon, because that can also get in the way of people being focused.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: So there's a lot we can do to be more focused.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Structure is the beginning of that.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Knowing your audience and then really working on right word choice can help.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: Excellent.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: So those are the six steps Since you've written the book.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Have you thought of any more steps or anything you would add as step seven?
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: That's a great question, you know.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: I really think rinse and repeat is step seven.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: That's a great question, you know, I I really think rinse and repeat is step seven and give yourself permission to jump into the methodology at any point.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: You know it has six steps and we often think, well, we have to begin at the beginning and go all the way through the end.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Any of the steps will help you feel more comfortable and confident, and it really depends on what kind of situations you find yourself in.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: So step seven would be tailor the methodology to yourself, rinse and repeat, practice it, and that's how we get better.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Excellent.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for being on the Bold Lounge today.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: All the information about Think Faster, talk Smarter by Matt is in the episode notes and he also has his website below to connect in and also see other things that can help you talk on your feet, be spontaneous and be successful in your communication.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, matt.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Thank feet, be spontaneous and be successful in your communication.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Matt.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you this has been a lovely chat.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Through the continuum of bold stories vulnerability to taking a leap you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey with you.