Latest / Bless This Mess: A Southern True Crime Podcast / 152. [Georgia] Pamela Williams

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152. [Georgia] Pamela Williams · Bless This Mess: A Southern True Crime Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: When segregation was a law. One mysterious black club owner,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Charlie Fitzgerald had his own rules segregation in the day integration.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: That night, it was like Steven in another world.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Was he a businessman, a criminal, a hero? Charlie was
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: an example of power.
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: They had to crush it.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Charlie's Place from Atlas Obscura and visit Myrtle Beach. Listen
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: to Charlie's Place wherever you get your podcasts.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Hey everyone, welcome to bless this Mess in the Drug podcast.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Don't care who is to say has to Hi? All right,
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: we're back this week and we are going to Georgia.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Let's do I love it?
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Have you been a lot of time in Georgia?
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: I have not either.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: We haven't either. We passed through and spent the night
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  Speaker 2: I think outside of Atlanta.
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: Well, we did Atlanta on our way to Charleston, but we.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Didn't do Atlanta. We didn't do anything into Atlanta.
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  Speaker 3: That's because we left the house per yuge late. We
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  Speaker 3: didn't even have children.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Well, we didn't have any children's excuse. We're probably hungover
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: or something.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: Probably something like that. Drove to Atlanta, didn't get in.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: We had to call the hotel to make sure they
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: didn't give our room away just in case.
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  Speaker 2: It was on the outside of Atlanta. We didn't even
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: stay in Atlanta. We just picked a cheap post.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah. We didn't even get until one o'clock.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: We were just trying to drive to Charleston. We were
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: trying to drive to Charleston. Why we didn't fly, I
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: don't know. I guess we needed a car. Well, we
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: were going to do oh, we were traveling our way back.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: We're going to do Savannah, and then we stopped in Pensacola.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we had to do the Big Hole there so
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: we could work our way drive our way home. Yes,
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: because there once you that's when we lived in Louisiana.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: So once you get so we did the Big Hole
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: to Charleston. But like once you go down to Savannah
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: and then Savannah's out that far from Pensacola, and then
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Pensacola is like a five hour.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: Drive at that back to the house.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it wasn't that long once you could make
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: your way back down. It was just the initial But
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: I'd like to go to Atlanta or like Georgia. Oh,
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  Speaker 2: I guess we have spent some time because savannahs in Georgia.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, okay, yeah, and that's where whenever my son graduated
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: a boat camp and I went out.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: There, I was in I was up there. I was
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: in Canada for work. Yes, so I didn't get to go.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: But you guys stayed at that and you got to
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: stay at that old timey car.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: We always stayed at the Thunderbird in the drive in motel.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wouldn't say there, because we stayed down We
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: stayed in down there by that Mercer House or whatever.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we stayed at the Eliza Thompson House.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that old house that that was.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: A nice place.
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  Speaker 2: It was.
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  Speaker 3: I would very much recommend if you're in Savannah stay
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: at the Eliza Thompson.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, you're right there by the Mercer House, which, if
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: you don't know, is the famous house from Midnight in
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: the Garden of Good and Evil. And it was owned
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: by someone he got shot by like supposedly like his lover,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: his lover house boy or whatever. I don't know what
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: was going, but anyways, there's a movie with John Cusack
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: called The There's a Book, and then there's a movie
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Midnight in the Garden of Ganil. So we went and
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: ate at the little diners, Yeah, the little diner that
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: was there. Because the book is on based off a
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: true story, so obviously the movie is too. So it's
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: all real locations. So we went and so we could
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: come out of our airbeing that not Airbnb. It was
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: an actual like B and B kind of like boot hotel,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: the Eliza Thompson House, and we could walk out and
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: go see the square and go see that house at
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: night and everything like that. I remember we went out
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: there and had a drink or something.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: I think the last time I was there, we went
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  Speaker 3: on a tour of it even too.
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  Speaker 2: Oh you did, Yeah, yeah, so we and then we
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  Speaker 2: you can walk down to the like river area or
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: whatever down there, which was really cool. We decided we
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: did like Savannah over Charleston because Charleston is very pretty
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: and everything like that, but it's more bougie bougie, and
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Savannah's much more laid back, I felt like, is what we.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, well, we stayed now whatever they call it, in
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  Speaker 3: the Historic District area in Charleston.
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  Speaker 2: No, in Savannah, well yeah, but in Charleston. We didn't
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: live far from We didn't stay so far from there
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  Speaker 2: because remember your mom came with.
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  Speaker 3: Us yet met up with us.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, met up with us. She found out we were going,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: and then she was.
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  Speaker 3: Like, she was already in South Carolina.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: She was already in South Carolina. She found out what
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: we were doing, and she was not going to miss out,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: so she came with us. She switched our our airbnb.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: She got that one is like this old historic house
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: down there.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: And promptly got bronchitis or something.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Yes, but anyways, but we did not live. We stayed
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: close enough where we could walk down to like Charleston.
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  Speaker 2: I'd like to go back to Charleston though, Yeah, and
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: check it out or whatever, so and we can take
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: the children. It's like easy. We got this minivan, we
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: can just go.
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  Speaker 3: We just love it. Yes, yeah, we gotta get a
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: We've got to get a roof rack for our.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Next No, Stu thinks we need a big ass thing
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: on top of the Why do we need one, though.
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  Speaker 3: Because we got to put stuff in there.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: What do we need? They need less stuff now they're
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: slowly getting less stuff.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: We've got strollers, we got to bring suitcases, we got
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: to bring still gotta bring diapers. You try and pack
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: all that in the back of the bank.
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  Speaker 2: You don't know. But you can get diapers where you're going,
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: if you're driving whatever. Anyways, can we talk about this case? Okay,
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: let's go.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: That's I'm just relaying to you what everybody's thinking.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: So okay, okay, well we'll talk about this case, all right.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: So so thank you. We we had got some new patreons.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: Tommy bought us a couple of coffees. I really appreciate it.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: You guys are really coming through.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: Just how you dropped one today, Oh I.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Did I dropped. I've been making homemade coffees with my
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: little recipe I share with you guys a couple of
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: weeks ago. I make them iced, and the ones I
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: make it at work even better because at home I
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: have just an espresso machine, so you know, it's like
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: the pods that you do. But at work they have
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: a Nest cafe machine or whatever. And I thought they
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: used like the pods too or whatever, but no, this
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: thing uses real espresso beans.
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  Speaker 3: Shut up.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, However, the rest of the coffees are gross because
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: they use powdered milk and things like that. But the espresso.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: So I bring my own milk and cream and the
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: oat milk from home. I get two shots of espresso
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: from there because they're fresh ground beans and everything like that.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: What happened was I worked for a company and we
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: bought another company and they have nice coffee machines because
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: my company would never have Yeah, they would never got
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: a sice, so we got those when we moved to
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: this new building. So anyway, so it's so good, but yeah,
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: I broke. I was putting something down Scooby snacks down
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: today and I knocked my coffee over when we were
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: headed out the door. And because I took off work
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: today and we were heading to take our daughter to camp,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: and then we're going to Costco. Instead of buying me
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: a coffee, it's going to buy me, buy me a
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: Costco credit because we we got this was our first
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: time going in really strolling around at the new Costco
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: that we can see from our backyard. And that was
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: a mistake because we spent way too much money. So
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: now we have to eat. We can't buy any more
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: groceries for the rest of them. It's done anyway, so
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: thank you so much, really appreciate it, and then check
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: out write review, subscribe, Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok do to always.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: I love the TikTok, always the TikTok, so maybe one
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: day I'll see it.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: All right, let's go ahead and get into well, you
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: do see it. Most of the things I share on
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: TikTok I share to the Facebook and the Instagram page two.
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  Speaker 2: All right, so let's go ahead and get in. This
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  Speaker 2: case out of.
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  Speaker 3: Georgia, Stu.
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  Speaker 2: And it's a suburb of Atlanta, Georgia, Hot Atlanta, Hotlanta.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, drop it and across it.
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  Speaker 2: So is that what they say?
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: I saw that Drunk History dropping across ye, dropping, drop
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: and cross. Those are the best ones, the ones out
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: of Atlanta with the one with the Coca cola. And
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: there's another one that does another one there if you
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: ever watched drunk.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: History, watch Asia.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: What's her name Jenny, Oh yeah, Jenny something, and she
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: does the one. Just google Jenny drunk History and Coca
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: Cola and it is the best episode. And then there's
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: another one that's really good out of there. But I
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: can't remember it was, but definitely check out that that was.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: That was my one of my favorites. Like I just
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: died laugh or whatever. See, I don't even know if
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: they're funny anymore. You know, they were real funny the
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: first Yeah.
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: They were. The one about Claudette Colvin was pretty funny.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Oh that's the one, That's what I'm thinking. Yes, that
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: one was good too. All right, So we I watched
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: an episode of the Real Murders of Atlanta on this
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: for this episode, so we are introduced to Pamela Williams.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Now Pamela Williams was a very ambitious woman. She began
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: after graduation. She began working at Target as an assistant manager,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: and she quickly worked her way up to being a
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: store manager, which you know, they make, they make some
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: good chance, which she had to to live in the
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: neighborhood she was going to live.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because I mean you're looking at I don't know,
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: well at that time, I mean twenty thirteen, you're probably
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: looking at one hundred and twenty hundred.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: And fifty, yeah, which was a lot of money back then.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: I mean today they say.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: A regular Target, a super Target. You might be closing
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: in on one to eighty or so.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So anyways, and that's a lot of money back then.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Like today, I feel like you have to make like
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: so much money.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: Just to be just to keep expensive, just.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: To get by I mean the money that you making,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: like sixty thousand dollars a year for a family is
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: not can't I don't know, you can't cut it anymore.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's just not eating McDonald's. You're gonna have
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: to do it.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, McDonald's is even like ridiculous, all that happy
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: meals like seven dollars.
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember whenever you could get like a a
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: a regular meal for an adult for two fifty three dollars.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Oh well, we're not going back that far.
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: I remember.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: I remember they used to have nineteen cent hamburgers and
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: every Wednesday they had nineteen cent in luffkin nineteen cent
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: hamburgers and twenty nine cent cheeseburgers, and then you could
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: buy a bucket of fries. And so after church, my
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: parents would drive us through and they just like my
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: brothers always had friends or I had friends, and they
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: would just buy a bunch of That was like the
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: night we got fast food or whatever it was. Because
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: it was nineteen cent. You would never see that happen today.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Never cheese alone to add to amber, Yes, because the
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: regular hamburger happy meal is not does It's not a
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: cheeseburger happy meal. The hamburger hap milk. No, they charged
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: like I think it's like a dollar twenty nine or
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: something to add cheese to a kid's hamburger.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: That good shitty.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Cheese that they anyways, Okay, I digress, all right, So
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: she's making she's making good money. She's worked her way
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: up as a store manager. Pamela was described as loving
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: and caring and always putting others ahead of herself. She
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: even donated a kidney to her sister whenever she fell
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: ill in twenty eleven. So they just yah, So she
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: was just and so she'd worked her way up. She
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: was living in this neighborhood called Amherst outside of Atlanta,
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: which supposedly very expensive neighborhood. They said celebrities would live there.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, guys, I did not go on the zillo.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: I didn't have time to look at what's going on now.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: But I can't imagine it's any cheaper, because I'd think
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: pretty sure Atlanta at this point, like any big city,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: housing prices are insane. You know these days, you can't
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: you can't move half these places in any big city
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: and even live in like a crappy house for less
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: than Yeah. When that used to be, you know, a
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: very nice home. Nowadays in like a lot of these
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: big cities, it's hard to get inside the city limits,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: like to get a nice house for cheap. But anyway,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: so she lived in this nice area. So if you're
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: from Atlanta and you know what Amherst is, let us know.
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: On November thirtieth, twenty thirteen, at around eight pm, a
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: call comes into nine to one one, and this is
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: from a woman who says someone is trying to break
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: into her home. The nine to one one operator is
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: talking her through the situation, and she says that she
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: can hear them entering the home and that she has
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: gone up to hide in the closet. As she's waiting
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: on the phone speaking nine to one one, she starts saying, help, help, help, Yeah,
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: it was real.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: They played the nine one one call and it was
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: very just sad and disturbing because she's she's just she's
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: kind of like in a low hush. She's like, my
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: dog is crying down there, Mike, because she had like
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: a poodle and he was whimpering at the back door
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: and stuff. So she's worried about her dog. She can
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: hear these people coming in and now she's up in
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: the closet waiting and just need someone because she can
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: hear them getting closer to her.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: And then she starts saying help, and a gunshot is
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: heard by the None one one operator and the phone
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: goes silent. Just four minutes later, the police do arrive
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: on the scene. They are able to gain entrance into
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: the backyard through a gate and there they see signs
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: of forced entry through the back door. Police enter through
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: that door and are prepared to come across a suspect.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Still, Yeah, because there's I mean, they heard a gunshot,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: like a gunshot, and it's only been four minutes, so
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: the likelihood of them possibly being in the house still
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: is high.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they think they're going to run into somebody. They
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: make their way through the home, they clear it and
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: they don't see anybody. They make their way up the
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: stairs into the master bedroom where they find Pamela in
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: the closet. She's unconscious, she's still breathing, however, the gunshot
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: wound is to her forehead, so she's in critical. She's
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: basically critical. Medical personnel rush Pamela to the nearest hospital,
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: which was Great Memorial, and they try to save her life.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: You know that hospital sounded familiar. I feel like it's
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: like the big hospital in Atlanta. I've heard Grady Memorial.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of celebrities that live in Atlanta,
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: so maybe that's why I've heard it.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know what much about Atlanta. Okay,
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: Coca Cola's there, the Braves are there.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: The Atlanta child murders were there, the Falcons, oh the
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: oh you know what else happened there? Is that remember
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: that guy that that poor security guy that got with
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: that Richard, Yeah at the at the Olympic Games or whatever,
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: and then it come to find out it wasn't him anyways. Okay, So,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: as doctors are working to say Pamela's life at the hospital,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: crime scene detectives began processing this scene. They noticed that
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: the person or persons that committed the crime took the
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: time to clean up the bullet casing after they shot Pamela.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: They also noticed that around the room there were valuables
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: lying in plain sight, but none of them were taken.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: So they're trying to figure out what could be the motive.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Was it just like a burglary gone wrong? Was it
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: a targeted attempted murder because they did come into the home,
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: and it's almost like they went straight to Pamela. So
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: if they were trying to rob the home, I mean
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: she'd already if they knew she'd already called Nomber one,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: they would have just fled because if they had no
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: intention of killing her, but it almost seemed like they
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: knew she was on the phone, they just did it anyways.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: So with little evidence to go on inside the home,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: they begin asking, you know, Pamela's immediate neighbors, the ones
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: right next door, if they saw anything, but they said
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: that they hadn't seen anything. They knew Pamela lived alone,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: but they and so there was no activity going on.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: There was nobody else coming or going.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know what's going on outside our house.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: We'd do it.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: We spend a lot of time in our house. No,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: but we spend a lot of time watching the neighbors,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: specifically those neighbors. We are are you kidding me, Stewart?
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: How many times we come on this podcast been like, hey,
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: I think the nag we do think the neighbors are moving.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: Well, it's just because we show up. But I mean,
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: if something's going on outside, like if you.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Heard a gunshot were to live close, but if she
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: she lived in a fancy neighborhood.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: Not ten feet apart, they're like ours.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: We we would like we can literally hear the other
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: people eating dinner like.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: It's it's on top we have. I don't hear a
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: lot of things.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: I know I'm exaggerating, stew Okay, I'm exaggerating, but we
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: live on top. We would hear a gun shot.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: If it was in a house actually there we have.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: There was outside I might, but well.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: Are they supposedly heard gunshots in this neighborhood. I don't know,
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: you know, if anything came from them, but it was
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: other parts of the neighborhood. We live in the wild
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: West over here, guys.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: Okay, it's I mean, if somebody was out on the
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: street shooting, I would hear that. But if somebody was
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: shooting somebody in their closet and their master bedroom closet
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: next door, well no, definitely.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Not out, but definitely not in her neighborhood. She's upstairs
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: in a closet in these big houses that are further apart,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: they're probably not going to hear it. So nobody came out.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: But the point is is that neither one of her
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: neighbors came out and saw anything. They didn't have anything
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: to go on. So this was also twenty thirteen, So
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: this is four cameras, everybody having a ring doorbell, you know,
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: looking at.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: Whoever's I think it was Amazon came here.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, oh that was the other We just recorded to
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: shoot the poos. So that happened on shoot the poostoo
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: was looking at his phone. I'm like, what are you
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: looking at? And he looked concerned and it was Amazon. Oh,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: because they're bringing the sheets.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: Somebody was at our front door and I was like,
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: there's nobody at my front door, what's going on.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: We finally ordered new sheets because our poor child has
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: been using you know, you know when you have your
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: first child, you go crazy and you buy everything. We
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: bought fancy like sheets and everything. Those things are so stained.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: They are clean, but they are stained because it's like children,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: you know, they get nasty stuff on everything. But the
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: other night he's.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Like poo, pooh, and.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: It was it's not poop, it's just stained. So I
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: was like, I'll get you some new I don't know, yeah,
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: I'll get you some news sheets, buddy. So he got
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: new dinosaur sheets. He's pretty excited about. But then, of
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: course we had to buy the four year old new
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: sheets too, because then it was like a whole ordeal
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: that she didn't get new sheets, but he also got
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Mickey Mouse sheets.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: Okay. Police ask friends and family if anyone in Pamela's
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: life might want to harm her, but they can't think
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: of anyone that she said.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: She's like a nice person. You know.
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: She had just begun dating a man. So they went
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: and checked on him because the fella is always going
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: to be the first suspect.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Of course, but and usually the correct suspect.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because they're checking him because they think it's somebody
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: that knew her, because it seemed like a personal killing,
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: like they came in directly killed her and then left
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: and didn't take anything. However, Pamela and this fella had
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: not been dating very long and he had a pretty
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: solid alibi, so they were able to rule him out
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: as a suspect almost immediately. They looked into her workplace
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: to see if anybody there had any grievances against her
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: since she was a manager, but there didn't seem to
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: be any animosity from any of the employees. Towards Pamela,
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: at least not enough for them to go and kill
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: her anyone.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing, some.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: You didn't you know what?
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: You know what though, whenever I worked, so I was
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: like I worked at a restaurant before my current when
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: I was in college the second time, and there was
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: a kid there. I was terrified of him and he
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: was a terrible worker, but all of us agreed nobody
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: was going to fire him. I just put him in
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: the corner on everyone who was shift and let him
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: roll silver work because I was afraid of him because
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: he was a little unstable stup.
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: You didn't want to be the one no.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: And I'm usually I was the bitchy one that would
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: run people off if they wouldn't work because I ain't
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: got no time, I'm not going to do your work
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: and everything like that. Like I was old and in
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: college and hungover half the time. I was just trying
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: to get through life. I'm like, I have time. So
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: there was a lot of young people that came in.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: I would we had some real I had some real
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: concerns about the youth of America while I was working there,
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: because one girl someone called in and said they wanted
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: a a pizza, a pepperoni pizza, only pepperoni or whatever.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: So what do you think would come on the pepperoni pizza?
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: No cheese?
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: What Stuart is kidding? He already knows the story. The
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: girl took everything off. They said they wanted pepperoni pizza,
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: and so she took off everything from the pizza and
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: send it back. So every time there was someone would
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: call in an order something, she would only put the ingredients.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: She would remove the cheese and the sauce and the
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: sauce because the system automatically, when you were you were
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: doing the pizza, it would have cheese and sauce, and
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: you could change marion Ardelfredo if that's what they wanted,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: or if they wanted not moztril cheese, you could switch
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: to cheddar or take it off or I guess if
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: they specifically asked for that. But every time they'd call
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: in an order, she would just take all the cheese
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: and the sauce off and just put the vegetables or
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: the pepper meat. It's like. And then her parents came in.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: I was she got so she ended up quitting midshift,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: and this is what's wrong with America. The parents came
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: in and returned her shirt and picked up her paycheck.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: Instead of making her come back, I would have made
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: my child go back in there and be like, you
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: want that money, you must go back in there and
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: return your shirt, get your paycheck. You know, why are
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: you looking at me like that? Okay, you wouldn't have
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: made our children that quit midshift because there a dumb ass.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: Yes I am that parent. I'm like, well, you shouldn't
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: have done that. And I guess it hurts, don't it. Yeah,
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: So he's like the little man slammed his finger in
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: the drawer the other day whenever he was slamming it,
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: shut o tooty, Yeah, and he got his pinky cot
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: in there, and it was it all. Well, that's what
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: you get.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: Stuart, poor little guy. Anyways, Yeah, you're at easy. My
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: point was My point was there was a time that
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: there was one one person that I was like, we're
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: just gonna not We're just gonna let him go on
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: his own time when he decides he doesn't want to work,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: work because I'm scared of him. He seemed like the
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: kind that would come back in and like shoot up
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: the store.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, customers, employees, everybody.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just take them all out, so we let him
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: hang around as long as he wanted.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: Well. Police received the fingerprints that they pulled from the
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: crime sayne, but they either belonged to Pamela or they
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: were inconclusive, so there was no forensic evidence to go
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: off at the crime scene. Unfore Trinately, this case did
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: turn from an attempted murder case to a murder case
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: when Pamela was removed from life support at the hospital.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she was on life support for about six days
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: before they there just wasn't anything else they could do
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: about it. So as police are able to canvass out
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: further into the neighborhood, they start to talk to more
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: of you know, the broader subdivision. They did find multiple
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: witnesses that said that they saw multiple shadowy figures running
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: through the neighborhood that evening, So they didn't necessarily see them,
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: but they just saw saw images of people, yeah, running
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: through through different parts of neighborhood. Police now believed that
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: multiple people were involved with Pamela's murder. Now as they're
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: following the clues of the witnesses in the neighborhood, they
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: determined that the perpetrators ran through a wooded area onto
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: a trail that was within the neighborhood. But this trail
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: actually didn't lead out of the neighborhood. It actually led
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: deeper into the neighborhood. And so this to police made
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: them think that.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: Possibly somebody in the neighborhood or did this.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, because police also arrived just four minutes after that
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: nine on one call, and they never saw anybody driving away,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: like I think there was probably only if it was
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: a nice neighborhood. That means that there was probably only yeah,
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: one or two entrances, maybe just one entrance, and they
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: would have seen someone flee in the neighborhood. But the
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: fact that they were running on this trail and they
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: were trying to get deeper into the subdivision meant that
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: they didn't care about getting out of the subdivision. So
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: they're thinking that it's someone who lived there, or one
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: of them lived there, and they're very familiar with the neighborhood.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: Now that the police believe the perpetrators are actually living
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: inside the community, they start looking in any property crimes
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: within the area. They discover that from twenty eleven to
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: twenty thirteen, there are roughly seventy five petty burglaries within
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: the Amherst community.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Now, I'm wondering how big this community is because if
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: there were seventy five burglaries in our size neighborhood, I
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: mean who knows.
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: I mean you have to see the moms or whatever pace.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Maybe that maybe that would be maybe that would be
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: something that HOA could actually be useful for as letting
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: everybody know there's like huge crime. I mean, we hear
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: about things. I guess they're probably there probably are seventy
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: five burglaries over two years in this neighborhood now that
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: I think about it. We get a lot of these
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: like teenagers coming in and trying to get in people's cars.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: They say, you know, they'll be like, hey, someone's trying
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: to get in cars last night and you locked your cars.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: They were on the street. So yeah, I would say
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: there's probably seventy five between in this neighborhood.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: In last this is the Amherst community.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I know it's a nice neighborhood.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: Yes, you're saying we're not in a nice well, I
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: mean it's okay, we're in a rental community.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: I think sometimes yes, we've we've we've it's turned into
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: a more of a rental community. So it's less like
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: family homeowners.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: It's more transient.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: People living in the home, so they don't just don't
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: care about the neighborhood as much. I mean, we're we're
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: basically but let's be honest, we're we're the homeowners, but
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: we're basically glorified rendards because we're just killing time.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: Don't well, we can get That's what we hope.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: As we hope. That's what I keep telling about.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: Word like, hey, and whenever you're ready to move, We're ready.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: Look how good I did last year.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Doesn't somebody else want me?
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: Don't you have somebody else you need to move to
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: this area to learn, train or.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Something built some character.
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: Back to our story, none of these burglaries had escalated
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: into any level of violence that Pamela's burglary ended in.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: They continue to look at any types of crimes that
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: occurred near this neighborhood in the past two years, and
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: they were able to find one that occurred on January thirteenth,
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: twenty thirteen, which was five miles from where Pamela Williams lived.
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: A woman named Melissa Burke, who was a retired Army veteran,
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: was home alone in bed when she heard the doorbell ring.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: She ignores the doorbell, thinking that they will go away,
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: kind of like we do here at the house when
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: we know those salespeople are out, thinking that they're gonna
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: call their panels Solar panels. But they keep ringing the doorbell,
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: so she goes down to look out the window to
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: see who it is.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Yes, Melissa is married, but her husband was out of
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: town that evening.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: As she's looking out the window, she sees a young
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: male walking away and doesn't think much of it. Shortly
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: after this, she hears a noise from her bedroom and
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: discovered that they are breaking into her bedroom window. She
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: hides in the closet. She calls nine one one, hoping
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: that they're not going to find her. She says she
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: stared at him, made eye contact with the guy because
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: the guy opened the closet. Yeah, found her. She makes
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: eye contact with him and couldn't believe that he was
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: so young.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's she kept saying. She just kept thinking, or
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: she said that afterwards, She's like, I just couldn't believe
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: how young he was holding a gun, you know, pointing
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: it at me.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah. He fires the first shot at her, and she
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: thinks he's going to stop, but he continues until he
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: basically unloads the gun on her. As she's lying there,
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: she sees two other young men walk into the room
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: and one of them says, let's get out of here,
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: and they take off.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: I think in total it was twelve times that he
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: shot her. Yeah, wow, yeah, don't quote me on the
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: twelve times that. I'm pretty sure she said he shot
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: twelve times. He just basically unloaded the gun until.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: It I mean, did she know or did she lose count?
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: And they told her after the fact.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Well they told maybe they said twelve. I don't know.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: It was a lot.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, he kept clicking until there was nothing less.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: Basically, she's lucky to be alive. Yes, it's a miracle.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: As police arrive on the scene, they see the getaway
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: vehicle driving away, so they pursue them in a chase.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: They ended up crashing the vehicle and taking off on foot.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: They were unable to catch the perpetrators, and the vehicle
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: that they were driving was actually stolen, so they get
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: no information from the vehicle. They did recover her cell
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: phone near the vehicle. This phone belonged to a young
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: man by the name of James Calhoun, James was a
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: known criminal. He had a history of burglaries. They asked
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: him about the Melissa case.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they brought him in to talk to him. But again,
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: his phone was just found near the stolen car, so
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: there's not in it. There's plausible deniability.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: Oh I lost it. I was out for a walk,
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: cause that's someone stole it somebody's store.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: But they stole this car, I guess.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. So he did not any involvement and without
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: any additional evidence, they couldn't hold him. Fortunately for Melissa,
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: after several months in the hospital, she was able to
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: survive her injuries.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like four to five months. She couldn't. She couldn't
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: do anything, and she had like PTSD from it. So
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: she said, you know, they she would have liked to
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: give them information, but she said, I couldn't even hear
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: a doorbell ring without going into like, you know, panic
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: or whatever, because that's what she you know, last remembers
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: people ringing doorbells and things like that. So she just
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: wasn't any to be able to help the investigation along
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: for at least four or five months before she could
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: even talk to police.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and because of that, she was not able to
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: help police identify if it was in fact James Calhoun
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: right afterwards, when it would have been the freshest in
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: her mind because she was in such a bad state
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: because of her injuries, so she wouldn't have been able
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: to at the time. She wasn't going to be able
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: to look at photo lineups or anything and definitively say no,
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: what if she saw anybody that she recognized.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Police start blasting the crime all over the news, hoping
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: to get some leads from the public because the public
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: is concerned at this point because there's just random people
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: running in, breaking into people's homes and shooting them. So
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: they received a call on December fourth, twenty thirteen, from
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: the parents of Jonathan Banks.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: Jonathan's father told police that Jonathan had just recently come
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: to him asking for a large sum of money to
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: get away Quickly, his parents inquired as to why he
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: needed to get away, and he just wouldn't tell his parents.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: After they told him that they wouldn't give him any
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: of this money to help disappear, they did not see
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: him for several days and couldn't get a hold of him.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: So and then that's when they started seeing all these
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: reports of Pamela's murder. Well, Jonathan's parents said that he
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: had been involved in burglaries before and they were concerned
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: he was involved with this one as well.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: Yes, Jonathan, mister Banks lived in the Amherst community, so
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: his parents were well to do as well.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's what I was about to say, stude. Jonathan
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: had previously lived in the Amherst subdivision and he had
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: recently been released from jail.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Police tried to locate Jonathan to question him about question
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: him about Pamela's murder, but were unable to find him.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: So his parents are just trying to come forward and say, hey,
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: they were doing the right thing. Hey, our son is
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: sketchy as fuck. Oka he lived in this neighborhood, he's
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: been in jail. We are concerned, and frankly, you guys
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: just look at him. Yeah, he's so good for the
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: parents for being like, you know, because some parents would
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: not turn their child in, but he's like the mom
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: said that she she heard Pamela's story and she said,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: I just can't even imagine what she went through and
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: if my child had something to do with it, then
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: he needs to be He needs to.
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: Be ammed up and locked up. And less than a
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: week later, they receive another major tip from a person
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: who says they spoke to three people Jonathan Banks, James Simms,
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: and James Calhoun.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Which we've heard James Calhoun before and Johnthan Banks. So
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: James Simms is our new new.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: Person, and these three admitted details to the murder drink.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: The informant tells police that James Calhoun and James Simms
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: were leaving out of the back gate of Pamela's home
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: when Jonathan Banks shows up and he's like, oh, hey,
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: maybe I'll go in there and see what I can steal.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, and this is the witness or informant or whatever
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: they called him, relaying the story that was told to
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: them by the three.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: Yes, that's when Jonathan Banks says, he is startled by Pamela,
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: so he.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: Just shoots, and he said he called it a panic shot.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he just oh my god, points the gun in
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: a direction, pulls the trigger and runs away. Police know
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: that this is not what happened because of Pamela's womb,
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: she had a what do they call it a contact press.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: The weapon was actually pressed to the front of Pamela's fo.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, it was pushed into her forehead and that's what.
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: When the trigger was pulled. Yes, so they know that
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: this story is crap.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: So with all of this information and a corroborating witness,
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: they were able to obtain a warrant to apprehend all three.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: They are all charged with burglary and murder and all
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: three pleaded not guilty. They were not able to currently
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: tie the three suspects to Melissa Burks attempted murder because
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: they do believe that this is probably the same group,
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: because it's almost identical.
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because the police really think that Calhoun, the James
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: Calhoun guy, was involved and both for sure, but they
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: weren't sure about the other two.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: No, they think they were all involved to they.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: Thought they were all in Well, they knew the one.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: Well, yes, obviously that James Calhoun had a tie to
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Melissa Burks because his phone was found out there. Yes,
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: but they've been running these they've been running around doing
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: this bullshit.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: For however long, well like two years.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: So while they are looking for a hard evidence to
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: tie these three suspects to Pamela's murder, they're actually able
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: to tie them to about one hundred burglaries in the
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: area due to them going to basically the same pawn
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: shop and pawning items that they had stolen. So my
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: question is this is again like a thing why. I've
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: read some other things about this, and I don't understand
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: why these guys weren't in jail.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: No, because at a pawnshop you gotta like take a
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: picture and leave a finger print or leave your ID
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: whenever your pond stuff. Whenever. We used to take the
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: cans that we took that we collected at our house
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: and took them down, I had to show the guy
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: the idea at the real cycling center just to turn
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: in recycling stuff.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I don't understand why it took so long
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: to get these guys, why they weren't in jail longer,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: why they were loose at all, Because they.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: Were just, yeah, seventy five burglaries. You would think that
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: the police would check the pawn shops for the items.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: That are But I think they did tie them to
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: I think they did get them for some of these.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: Obviously they had criminal records for burglaries.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: But it doesn't sound like it took Oh yeah they did.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: They did, but it didn't I don't think they tied
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: them to this amount of burglaries where it was on
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: this scale is what it seemed like. So this helps
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: the point of this though, is it helps the DA
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: paint a picture that these are not just like mischievous
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: kids because it again like we didn't mention in ages,
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: but they're like nineteen twenty twenty three like that age group.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: They're y yeah, and the physical evidence they have of
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: them at the house is well, we're.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: Going to talk about that. We're going to talk about
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: that too. You're always jumping ahead, Stu.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: Okay, well, you know, I just know things so cause
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: you I know how to irritate you.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you do know how to irritate me. So the
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: point of the hundred burglaries that they're able to tie
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: to them is to show that these are not just
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: like kids run around doing silly things or whatever. These
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: are hardened criminals that are on a path to what
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: now is murder. So the prosecution will have an uphill
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: battle because there is little to no forensic evidence, like
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Stu said, tying these three to the burglary and murder.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: In October twenty sixteen, the trial begins, but they were
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: actually allowed to bring Melissa to the stand, and while
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: she's to tell her story because they said, basically, she
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: is Pamela. She's lived the same exact thing as Pamela,
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: except for Pamela died and she's got a miracle, you know,
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: survived or whatever. So she's able to tell her story.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: And actually she said that the defense attorney actually called
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: her Pamela twice on accident and whenever she was cross
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: examining her, which did not help them.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: No, I mean I would if I was one of
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: the three kids, I'd be like, hey, I got ineffective counsel.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: He's he's killing me.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: Well the choice of words to it, well, yeah, probably.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: Well the kids were a little shits too. They said
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: they were laughing in there and everything like that.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: They did not Well, yeah, they all went on trial together,
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: and they would come in the courtroom and they just
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: sitting next to each other, laughing and joke and laughing.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: They were sitting next to each other, they were at
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: different tables.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean they were close enough.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: To smile at each other, still laugh, crack up and anyway,
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: So while she's on the stand, she was able to
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: identify James Calhoun as her attacker. She said the minute
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: she saw him, she knew that was him. She was
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: also able to tell, like we said, the almost the
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: identical story of what happened to pam which really pulled
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: on the jury's heartstrings. They played that night on one
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: call over and over again from Pamela and everything, and
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: then when you add Melissa's story on top of it,
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: it really painted picture of what these three had done
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: to her.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what they were CAPA. I'm just surprised that the
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: judge let in and whenever they couldn't tell.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm very surprised. I mean do I okay, let
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: me just finish this up and then we'll talk about it. So,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: after two days of deliberation, all three men were found
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: guilty of burglary and murder. James Simms and James Calhoun
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: were sentenced to life in prison with the chance of parole,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: and Jonathan Banks, who they believed was the trigger man,
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: was sentenced to life without the possibility possibility of parole, which, Okay,
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: I don't understand. I'm just gonna tell you this. I
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: understand just throwing these three away because they're bad news
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: and they've been burglarizing and armed robbery and things like
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: that they.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: Should already be did they do the two shootings. Yes, probably, but.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: I don't understand how you just have. They really didn't
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: have any hard evidence to time to the scene. They
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: had the witness that said that they which they did
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: provide a lot of details that only they would have
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: known about how they committed it, so that was damning.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: They had the parents that turned him in. But Melissa
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: I d James Calhoun as the one who shot.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: Her, but after the fact, while she's in there.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, but I'm saying, she pointed, it would have been
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: almost more convincing if she if Jonathan Banks had been identified,
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: because I just don't feel like two of them would
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: go to this. I could see one of them being
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: a psychopath, like Jonathan Banks is the crazy person, and
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: he shot both women. But now we have one shooting
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: one lady and then the other one shooting the other lady.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: I don't see how that's par patch they're all psycho paths.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: Probably well anyways, I just I can't I really can't believe.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm glad they're in prison. They definitely need
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: to because they I.
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: Mean, if they're all laughing and joking at their court
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: trial for murder that their faces, they.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: Don't care about anybody. They only care about themselves. And
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: what's crazy is because at least the Jonathan Banks and
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: I think one of the other ones, they had like
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: a really their parents had were lived in that nice
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: neighborhood and everything, but that probably had all sorts of opportunities,
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: and they just started their parents said, they just he
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: started running around with the wrong and next thing you know,
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: he's out here fucking robbing.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: People and murdering Pamela.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: I know. So anyways, I think it's just I guess
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: it is like the Jonathan Banks, if he's the one
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: that killed Pamela, he full on like put the gun
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: to her head and pulled the trigger. The other one
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: just kind of shot at the other lady a bunch
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: of times. Yeah, and so maybe it wasn't as cold blooded,
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: I guess, But still I don't know these I don't
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: know how. It is kind of crazy me. I was
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: surprised they got the conviction. Do I think they did it? Yes?
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: Do I think they need to be in jail for
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: life because they're gonna hurt somebody else, Yes, But it
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: is kind of crazy with the level of evidence they had.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: Now, do we know if burglaries and the Amherst community
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: dropped off after this, we.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: Do, but I'm sure they did. I'm sure there was
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: a drastic decline in burglaries. So anyways, that is our
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: episode for this week. Sue, do you have a yelling Jesus?
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: I do? I do? Okay, distraugh, Yes, local news coming
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: to us from Lake and McHenry County Scanner.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: And you said this was Allison sent us this one.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: No, this is a difference. Oh okay, we'll get hers
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: next time.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: Oh we'll get her. The battery is dying on the laptop,
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: so we'll get yours next week, Alison, we promised.
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: Driver distracted by eating Taco Bell loses control, causing rollover
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: crash near Fox like.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: Me, try my nachos Bill Grandi with no beans on
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: the way out.
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: From what I can tell, this is in Illinois with my.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: Don't forget the ballhab blast ladies.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: Yes, well that was actually one of the comments that
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: they were making fun of somebody with their Baja.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: Blast the ball. I'd never had a ballhah blast, but
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: because I like Taco Bell, but i'd never had like
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: that was drinks are not really my thing, but I
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: got that ballhaw blast. I'm like oh, yeah, this is
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: see where it's yeah, this is where it's at.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: A driver suffered minor injuries after he told the sheriff
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: that he was distracted eating Taco Bell, causing him to
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: lose control and roll over his car on Route twelve
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: Fox Lake. The Lake County Sheriff's Office, Fox Lake Police Department,
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: and Fox Lake Bar responded to around one oh five
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: a m.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: That's a perfect time for taco Bell.
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: Sunday to the area of Route twelve and State Park
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: and unincorporated Spring Grove for a vehicle crash with an injuries.
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: A lot of details there. Drink, oh drink, Where were
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: you on that? Deputies arrive and found a single vehicle
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: rolled over just south of State Park Road on Route twelven.
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: How many times were we going to say Route twelve?
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: They want you to know it was Route twelve.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: They do because it's in here again. Lake County Sheriff's
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: Deputy Chief Christopher Cabelli said it would determine that a
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: nineteen ninety nine Toyota four Runner. That's the good four
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: und Those are.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: Good, solid vehicles, No wonder he was hardly injured.
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: The driver told deputies he was eating taco bell while
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: driving and was distracted by the eating of the taco bell.
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: The toyota revered to the right side of the road
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: struck a guard rail as the driver was distracted by eating.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, we get it there.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: I don't know what.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: Someone doesn't know how. Someone had to hit a word
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: count for this story and they couldn't quite get there.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: So they mentioned the road and distracted by eating. They're like,
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: distracted by eating, that's three words. If I say it
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: ten more times, that's thirty words, and that'll get me
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: to what my editor asked for.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: The toyota rolled over onto its side after hitting the
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: guard rail, Cabelli said. The driver, twenty nine year old
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: spring Grove Man, suffered minor injuries in the crash. He
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: was a valued weighted by paramedics, but declined transport to
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: the hospital.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: But did his taco bell make it?
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: We don't know. Somebody had the transport.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: He's like, I gotta get I.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: I gotta finish eating this twelve pack of tacos I
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: just got.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: Oh, the twelve pack of tacos.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: Taco would get them Dorito Supreme ones. The driver was
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: the sole occupant of the toyota and no other vehicles
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: were involved. They did not cite the driver because he
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: was an idiot lost his taco bell and his car.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: It doesn't say that, but they didn't cite him because
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: he was the only.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: The real crime is that he lost the taco bell.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: That he was he should have been because you gotta
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: pay for the guardrail. If you tear up a guardrail,
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: you gotta pay for it.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: So it is he's been suffering enough too, and he'll
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: suffer again whenever that taco bell makes it through.
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, probably sound like you should have probably got a
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: DW if he's out there.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: I know, if you're at one o'clock in the morning
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: eating taco ordering taco Bell, you've probably you've been on something. Yes,
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: because that was the only time we we used to
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: get the Uber run through like taco Bell or water like.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: I remember that one time I bought. We had been
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: drinking and we ran through the Taco Bell with the
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Uber driver or whatever or the taxi or whatever might
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: have been a taxi at that point. You know, you
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: could really go off course with them. Yes, Uber's really
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: like point A to point B.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I got I got more fare.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: The taxi's like yeah, right up. That fair this drive through. Anyways,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: I remember we ordered like fifty dollars for the taco bell,
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: and then I got home and I was like passed out,
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: and then I couldn't even eat the taco bell. Yes,
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: I got none of the taco bell.
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: And then it's terrible the next day in the market.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Taco bell doesn't do well the next day. You know,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: it's a definitely It's not like Chinese food where you
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: can eat it the next day and it actually tastes better.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Taco bell is a eat eat it fresh type of thing.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: So anyways, I completely understand this man and what happened.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: Maybe he's eat Trinathan Nacho's bell grande.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: What it's for it?
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: Anyways? All right, well that is our episode for this week.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: Don't forget rate Review. Subscribe five stars only Patreon. You
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: get twenty four hours early and ad free. You also
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: get the weekly Shoot the Pooh right now we're doing
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: and Instagram, Facebook, TikTok buy me a coffee. Thank you.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Everybody really appreciate it. And I think that is all.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: Stew Do you have anything else?
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: I do not?
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: All right, we better go for this laptop die buy
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: everyone say bye to buys.
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: Do Tell't you know it's bad to be superst Spink
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: nothing a little sins working and my head is bringing
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: it hurting and a shack o. It's worrying.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Bou things I can