Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Parents Ask – What would you do differently? More on bedtimes. | Ep. 45

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Parents Ask – What would you do differently? More on bedtimes. | Ep. 45 · The Parenting Podcast

• 1:14
  Cheryl: Welcome back to the parenting podcast listeners.
• 1:17
  Cheryl: So glad you're here with us today.
• 1:20
  Cheryl: I'm just telling you, I am hungry to travel.
• 1:24
  Cheryl: You know, travel has really been hard these couple days.
• 1:28
  Cheryl: It's
• 1:28
  Ellen: for you.
• 1:29
  Ellen: I know.
• 1:29
  Ellen: I mean, you can't even really go to the next town over I mean, I'm finding, I have to check everywhere.
• 1:34
  Ellen: Yes.
• 1:35
  Ellen: To make sure the restaurant's open that the store is even still
• 1:38
  Cheryl: there because everything is just changing.
• 1:41
  Cheryl: And with gas prices it's no, yeah, that's the whole now, you know, flight everything.
• 1:46
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 1:46
  Cheryl: You know, Ellen, you've been everywhere.
• 1:48
  Cheryl: You've just traveled
• 1:50
  Ellen: so much.
• 1:50
  Ellen: I know.
• 1:50
  Ellen: Well, I was the daughter of a ticket agent for United airlines.
• 1:53
  Ellen: So my very first trip, I was six.
• 1:56
  Ellen: So, you know, I got to travel a, when I was a kid and then I married an air force guy.
• 2:00
  Ellen: So we've traveled all over the world and then Mike and I do like to travel.
• 2:04
  Ellen: So
• 2:05
  Cheryl: we, when I enjoy it because you just have fun, whatever you do.
• 2:08
  Cheryl: Even when you don't travel well, that's true.
• 2:12
  Cheryl: okay.
• 2:12
  Cheryl: That's my goal in life.
• 2:13
  Cheryl: HERE IS SOME LAUGHTER AND WORD YEAH
• 2:16
  danae: Yeah
• 2:17
  Ellen: Okay.
• 2:17
  Ellen: Well, yeah.
• 2:18
  Ellen: And we went to travel to a lot of really weird places, but, you know, I remember for years and years, cause even as a kid, we traveled a lot and we did a lot of road trips and in Southern California, there was always this place that we'd pass as a kid.
• 2:31
  Ellen: There's a big placard.
• 2:33
  Ellen: It's been there since I was a kid.
• 2:34
  Ellen: And it's come see the thing My parents would never stop.
• 2:38
  Ellen: I'd be can't we see I'm I'm getting there.
• 2:41
  Ellen: I would be my husband cuz we had cars.
• 2:43
  Ellen: Because we were California, we were constantly go back forth to California.
• 2:46
  Ellen: Can we stop and see the thing?
• 2:48
  Ellen: No, we're not gonna stop and see the thing stupid.
• 2:50
  Ellen: Well, I don't know what the thing is and you know, it was Prego.
• 2:54
  Ellen: And so finally, finally I begged him enough with the kids I got'em all together.
• 3:00
  Ellen: We be let's stop.
• 3:02
  Ellen: It's not a big deal.
• 3:02
  Ellen: It's you know, 15 minutes off the road.
• 3:05
  Ellen: Let, I mean, we've had billboards.
• 3:07
  Ellen: For her a hundred miles stop and see the thing.
• 3:09
  Ellen: Okay.
• 3:10
  Ellen: So you go in, you pay 50 cents and you walk into this dark room and you walk farther back and then there's a big table.
• 3:17
  Ellen: And on the table is a mummified lady What?
• 3:20
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 3:22
  Cheryl: That's the, it was really something.
• 3:24
  Ellen: It was, yes, it really was.
• 3:25
  Christie: Something, it was horrifying.
• 3:26
  Christie: Well, I dunno that something or not, that's something I'd
• 3:29
  Ellen: wanna, it was during the railroad years when they were building the railroad, she had died, but she had gotten mummified.
• 3:34
  Ellen: What in the
• 3:37
  Cheryl: is horrible.
• 3:39
  Cheryl: I'm a billboard don't stop and
• 3:45
  Ellen: sees.
• 3:45
  Ellen: And course my husband's laughing and giving me dirty
• 3:46
  Christie: looks at this time I stopped for, this is what he's thinking.
• 3:49
  Christie: And my kids were cents a piece.
• 3:51
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 3:51
  Cheryl: And my kids were.
• 3:52
  Cheryl: so you've got'em all in counseling now.
• 3:58
  Ellen: cause I don't, I don't even know probably legally they don't have the thing anymore,
• 4:02
  Christie: that's the equivalent of my Robertson's ham sandwich on I 35 going south to Dallas.
• 4:07
  Christie: I've never had one, but the sign's been there forever.
• 4:09
  Christie: I will say they're good.
• 4:10
  Christie: Yeah.
• 4:10
  Christie: But like nobody I have ever with ever wants to stop
• 4:13
  Cheryl: and have one.
• 4:14
  Cheryl: Are you gonna stop in Amarillo and eat the 48 house?
• 4:16
  Cheryl: I have been
• 4:16
  Christie: there.
• 4:17
  Christie: I have been there.
• 4:17
  Christie: I did not have the big
• 4:18
  Cheryl: steak actually bill went and he went with someone and they paid, he said, you can't do it cuz you have to eat
• 4:23
  Christie: everything.
• 4:24
  Christie: Yeah.
• 4:24
  Christie: And it's not a very good restaurant.
• 4:26
  Christie: I mean
• 4:27
  Cheryl: HERE IS SOME LAUGHTER AND
• 4:29
  Christie: My goodness.
• 4:30
  Cheryl: called my goodness.
• 4:32
  Cheryl: Well, on a more say, no, it would be fun if we could just tell stories like that.
• 4:39
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 4:39
  Cheryl: But we do have a question that a parent has sent us follow up from something we did a couple of episodes ago.
• 4:47
  Cheryl: We talked about sleep and all the different ages.
• 4:50
  Cheryl: So listeners if you haven't go back and listen to those episodes.
• 4:54
  Cheryl: So mom says that time can be so stressful and exhausting with young children.
• 4:59
  Cheryl: What are some practical ideas to help make this easier?
• 5:03
  Cheryl: how to get our kids ready?
• 5:05
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 5:05
  Cheryl: To,
• 5:05
  Ellen: to bed's yeah.
• 5:06
  Ellen: That's an important thing, cuz that's that's the follow on to the philosophy of sleeping is
• 5:11
  Cheryl: the actual how to do it.
• 5:12
  Cheryl: that's true.
• 5:13
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 5:13
  Cheryl: You want to dive into that for today?.
• 5:15
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 5:16
  Cheryl: Yeah,
• 5:16
  Ellen: that sounds really good.
• 5:17
  danae: I have to tell a funny story for, so anyone who knows my oldest daughter does not believe the story that she was pretty honoree when she
• 5:27
  was
• 5:27
  Ellen: no way.
• 5:28
  danae: Yes.
• 5:29
  danae: And so I remember she was probably three and, um, She would get out of her room.
• 5:37
  danae: She'd get out of her bed and out of a room out of her bed at her room so much so that I pushed the little plastic kitchens, like up against her door.
• 5:48
  danae: We didn't have a baby gate.
• 5:49
  danae: I don't know why.
• 5:50
  danae: So when she would open her door, she couldn't get out.
• 5:54
  danae: And then she found out a way to close.
• 5:57
  Ellen: Over it.
• 5:59
  danae: And one of the purposes of getting her to bed was to have that quiet time in the evening, actually, um, her father and I had planned to say, that's going to be our evening time and so the purpose was there and the why was there and.
• 6:18
  danae: You know, it took a lot of consistency.
• 6:21
  danae: So that's going to be my practical advice of that, even though it was at first funny and then maddening that she kept getting out and getting out and getting out was I would just put her back to bed, just say, yeah.
• 6:37
  danae: It's time to go to bed and just not without much emotion, just try to pick her up and put her back in her bed, pick her up and put her back in her bed, pick her up, put her back in her bed finally.
• 6:46
  danae: And I can't remember how long, but it's long enough for that memory to be in my
• 6:50
  Cheryl: mind, but also the idea of consistency
• 6:54
  Cheryl (2): maybe Parents can go, oh, well, eat at this time, we'll do this.
• 6:58
  Cheryl: because if everything is just changing the children never know what to expect.
• 7:03
  Cheryl (2): Children do flourish with consistent schedules.
• 7:07
  Cheryl (2): that as much as we can eating a regular time bath at a regular time.
• 7:12
  Cheryl (2): And the routine is the same
• 7:14
  Ellen: most of the time Yes.
• 7:16
  Cheryl: And I didn't realize that it was a long time before I realized how that consistency of routine really is calming on the children.
• 7:25
  Cheryl: And they always expect a song or they always think.
• 7:29
  Cheryl: It helps them to realize this is what's happening, but it took me years to recognize that the routine mattered.
• 7:38
  Cheryl: Cause as adult, it didn't seem as important, but
• 7:41
  danae: what if you have all the activities?
• 7:43
  danae: What if you, it's
• 7:44
  Ellen: going to say My husband was active duty military.
• 7:47
  Ellen: And so we had a lifestyle where we had a minimum.
• 7:50
  Ellen: One night, a week, people in our home that we were feeding, taking care of, that was part of our responsibility.
• 7:58
  Ellen: And then we usually had, um, another night where we were gone, we were at a Bible study or something like that.
• 8:06
  Ellen: And so we have.
• 8:08
  Ellen: Activity going on constantly in our home.
• 8:11
  Ellen: I would never say it was just calm and peaceful.
• 8:14
  Ellen: Not in a bad way.
• 8:15
  Ellen: I mean, I enjoyed it, but, um, the kids had to learn that even though we have a bunch of people in the house, you still have to go to bed at 7 30, 8 o'clock you can come, you know, stay high.
• 8:26
  Ellen: Talk for a little bit
• 8:27
  danae: consistent.
• 8:28
  danae: I mean, told them, and they knew what to expect that one
• 8:31
  Ellen: night a week.
• 8:32
  Ellen: Yes.
• 8:32
  Cheryl: Thinking, um, about evenings one of the things I would recommend is trying to work to bring down the stress of the whole house and the busy, busy, busy, because our children respond to it, we saw how they reacted to it and, uh, to be aware that our children are all picking up on everything and they get stimulated, and then we see the clock and whatever it is, 7 30, 8 o'clock, whatever time.
• 9:02
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 9:02
  Cheryl: Now, calm down real quickly and just get into bed and come down and go to sleep.
• 9:07
  Cheryl: They aren't wired to be able to do that.
• 9:08
  Cheryl: What else would you, how would y'all recommend traversing that, cause this is what this mom saying.
• 9:13
  Cheryl: How do we Make it, so that bedtime is more enjoyable for the whole family, including the parents.
• 9:19
  Ellen: All the stimulation is slowed down.
• 9:22
  Ellen: You're just able to kind of have, take a breath.
• 9:24
  Ellen: I think that's a really important, depending on you know, what your lifestyle is like.
• 9:30
  Ellen: And I think in the early years, that's the hardest because you really have to train in those early years.
• 9:36
  Ellen: That, that sped time we go to bed.
• 9:39
  Ellen: You know, if you can't go to sleep, you can lay there and you can think, or you can just, you know, whatever you need to do.
• 9:46
  Ellen: And all of our children shared rooms.
• 9:49
  Ellen: So everybody kind of had to learn to be flexible and, um, My consistency.
• 9:56
  Ellen: And we always did bath times when they were young, a warm bath is a really nice way to calm everyone down.
• 10:04
  Ellen: Um, summertime's were always a little harder.
• 10:06
  Ellen: I can remember one time my, I put my kids to bed at eight or eight 15, and the next thing.
• 10:12
  Ellen: The kids came out and they go everyone's out south
• 10:15
  danae: lake.
• 10:15
  danae: Cause it was, you know, summertime's
• 10:17
  Ellen: Firefly.
• 10:18
  Ellen: And of course Mike's gone for weeks at a time sometimes.
• 10:22
  Ellen: And I'm like, I don't care.
• 10:24
  Ellen: You know, I need some time to myself so I can just catch my breath.
• 10:28
  Ellen: Sometimes you just have to do it for yourself because a lot of times the schedule is for you as much as it is for your children.
• 10:38
  Ellen: And especially if you're a single mom or a mama like myself, where I had to parents single a lot.
• 10:43
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 10:44
  danae: And that is okay to take care of your
• 10:47
  Ellen: yes.
• 10:47
  Ellen: And it is good for you.
• 10:49
  danae: Yeah, it serve yourself at something routine wise that my kids really enjoyed.
• 10:54
  danae: And we'll still talk about to this day as they went to bed with audio books.
• 10:59
  danae: So they look forward to it.
• 11:00
  danae: And like you said, Ellen, that you just need to be in bed, you know?
• 11:04
  danae: So it's, they got a little bit older.
• 11:06
  danae: They looked forward to that audio book time that they would listen to it.
• 11:10
  danae: And now there's podcasts for kids.
• 11:13
  Cheryl: And one of the things, when people would ask me, how did I do it?
• 11:16
  Cheryl: I told'em well, we would start the evening before to dust, decide what our morning's gonna look like the next day.
• 11:24
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 11:24
  Cheryl: So that we would back up and design our evenings with the consideration of what we wanted in the morning.
• 11:30
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 11:30
  Ellen: Cause if you're gonna go someplace and had to be up early
• 11:33
  Cheryl: or, or depending on the ages of the children and whether they were in school or they had responsibilities, or they were little.
• 11:39
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 11:40
  Ellen: I was a storyteller and I enjoyed that.
• 11:43
  Ellen: And so we would turn the light out and they would each give me a character.
• 11:47
  Ellen: That they wanted in the story.
• 11:49
  Ellen: And I know most people can't do this, but I would just make up stories out of my head.
• 11:54
  Ellen: And they would be ongoing stories, which each of the kids were in the stories under a different name in some adventure place.
• 12:01
  Ellen: And so they really looked forward to, you know, just having that.
• 12:05
  Ellen: And, um, but again, having.
• 12:08
  Ellen: Be part of that,
• 12:09
  danae: I'm hearing that bedtime takes a lot of time.
• 12:14
  danae: Yeah.
• 12:14
  danae: Yes.
• 12:15
  danae: You know, and maybe we need to say is that maybe, you know, what we think of bedtime is okay.
• 12:22
  danae: Time for bed.
• 12:23
  danae: Yeah.
• 12:23
  danae: Drop you in her bed and you should be falling asleep, you know, is that it takes winding down.
• 12:29
  danae: It takes spending time with them.
• 12:33
  danae: Summary team and consistency.
• 12:36
  danae: And so if that's what we do the majority of the time, then there's the odd night out.
• 12:41
  danae: You know, the kids want to stay out later in play.
• 12:44
  danae: Maybe if that works for you
• 12:46
  Ellen: You're helping your children learn how to self-soothe, you know, you're teaching them how, whatever their patterns of sleep are, how to help themselves fall asleep.
• 12:57
  Ellen: Cause that's a really big skill is to, to understand when you go to bed, what do I need to do to fall asleep?
• 13:03
  Ellen: Some people just.
• 13:04
  Ellen: I hit the pillow and their sound asleep.
• 13:06
  Ellen: Other people like myself have to read or do something in bed before I can actually really relax.
• 13:12
  Cheryl: And as you're saying, we mentioned that we've talked about time management Like the time timer, something like that, they can see, uh, So that they have a visual, you know, well, mom, we going to keep playing.
• 13:25
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 13:26
  Cheryl: And you have the timer so that they know this is where we're going.
• 13:30
  Cheryl: This is how we're doing.
• 13:32
  Cheryl: That's put up our toys because it is true as an adult.
• 13:36
  Cheryl: And I think, oh, it's just time, quit and get in pajamas and go to bed.
• 13:39
  Cheryl: And instead that we have a, a smoothness to what we do within the given style of a home
• 13:45
  Ellen: and also a side note.
• 13:48
  Ellen: We didn't have these when my youngest were little, but, um, the light from I-pads and the computer is really detrimental.
• 13:57
  Ellen: It switches your brain
• 13:58
  danae: back on research has shown
• 14:00
  Ellen: that.
• 14:01
  Ellen: Exactly.
• 14:02
  Ellen: And so I think that's a really important part of winding down.
• 14:05
  Ellen: And I had to learn that as an adult because I'd be doing stuff on my computer, on my iPad, right up to bedtime.
• 14:11
  Ellen: Then I'd be in bed, staring at the ceiling going I'm wide awake.
• 14:14
  Ellen: And so I've had to re-institute for myself.
• 14:18
  Ellen: Uh, a good way to have a bedtime, which means turning my devices off an hour before I go to bed.
• 14:23
  Ellen: But for kids, that's a big
• 14:24
  danae: deal.
• 14:25
  Cheryl: Good ideas, the consistency.
• 14:28
  Cheryl: And then what you're saying is we, as the parents.
• 14:32
  Cheryl: affect everything else, so I need to be under control.
• 14:37
  Cheryl: So that I can pass that on to my children and then we can have that smooth transition to bedtime And as much as we can keep the same routine, but with flexibility
• 14:48
  Christie: Yeah
• 14:49
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 14:50
  Cheryl: Well, this is a little bit of a crazy day because now Ellen it's ended up is just the two of us still here.
• 14:56
  Cheryl: I
• 14:56
  Ellen: know it seems kind of weird.
• 14:58
  Ellen: We miss the rest
• 14:59
  Cheryl: of the ladies.
• 15:00
  Cheryl: Oh, well they had to go on.
• 15:01
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 15:02
  Cheryl: Um, so since we're here and you and I are very seasoned, we're just a nice way of saying we're old.
• 15:11
  Cheryl: we're seasoned moms and now all our kids are grown and we both got grandchildren.
• 15:16
  Cheryl: When you talk to parents or moms is there like a question that they ask you that we could address here I think one
• 15:24
  Ellen: of the big questions is what would you do different?
• 15:27
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 15:28
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 15:29
  Cheryl: You know, and I get that asked a lot.
• 15:30
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 15:30
  Cheryl: If you could go back, what would you do?
• 15:32
  Cheryl: What would you change?
• 15:33
  Cheryl: So let's just talk about that.
• 15:35
  Cheryl: Um, what would we do if we could go back and change how we parented our children?
• 15:42
  Cheryl: What would you say?
• 15:43
  Ellen: You know, and that's a kind of a hard question, especially, you know, I had five children and you did two, so it's hard because each child's an individual and parenting is so daunting in terms of you are learning as you go
• 16:00
  Cheryl: Oh, All the things I didn't understand Yeah.
• 16:03
  Cheryl: On that.
• 16:03
  Cheryl: End of it.
• 16:04
  Cheryl: it is really on the drop training.
• 16:06
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 16:06
  Cheryl: And you kind of hear people say that.
• 16:08
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 16:09
  Cheryl: But the reality of living that does have the feeling sort of, of a free fall, right?
• 16:16
  Cheryl: It does, you know, and the dynamics, I was talking with a, a young mom.
• 16:22
  Cheryl: and she was kind of struggling because it felt a little bit out of control because she now has three young children.
• 16:31
  Cheryl: Right.
• 16:31
  Cheryl: And just that dynamic of the, you can
• 16:37
  Cheryl (2): maybe
• 16:38
  Cheryl: structure and have more control when you have.
• 16:40
  Cheryl: A child, correct.
• 16:42
  Ellen: And even maybe even two
• 16:44
  Cheryl: children and then you get to three and now it's the dynamics of the children interacting with each other and birth order.
• 16:53
  Cheryl: And
• 16:53
  Ellen: you're getting more tired as time is going on
• 16:58
  Cheryl: too.
• 16:58
  Cheryl: So I think one thing I would say is keeping flexibility to realize that it is an ongoing process.
• 17:06
  Cheryl: And what works for one child doesn't necessarily work for the other.
• 17:10
  Cheryl: And that
• 17:11
  Ellen: is such a disappointing realization.
• 17:13
  Ellen: It sure is, you know, cuz you want it to kind of be cookie cutter.
• 17:15
  Ellen: Okay.
• 17:16
  Ellen: This is how we do things.
• 17:17
  Ellen: And then that one child comes along that it does not work for at all.
• 17:22
  Ellen: And you kind of have to rethink, okay, how do we do this differently?
• 17:25
  Ellen: How's this gonna work with this child?
• 17:27
  Ellen: Mm-hmm and I don't mean changing your values or your ethics or your morals.
• 17:31
  Ellen: I'm just talking about how you respond to.
• 17:35
  Ellen: issues with each of your children, cuz they can be very different and you know, sometimes that's
• 17:40
  Cheryl: hard mm-hmm and I think that's what she was feeling, I was trying to encourage her.
• 17:46
  Cheryl: That, that doesn't mean she's losing it or failing that's the process of life.
• 17:52
  Cheryl: Yes, because also they're growing older in life.
• 17:55
  Cheryl: Right.
• 17:56
  Cheryl: And I think sort of a lot of people in their twenties.
• 18:00
  Cheryl: You kind of think you're gonna figure it out.
• 18:02
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:03
  Cheryl: And that you're going to get this life thing down and you've got it by the tail.
• 18:08
  Cheryl: And then life starts happening and changing life is outta control.
• 18:12
  Cheryl: The pandemic.
• 18:13
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 18:13
  Cheryl: I mean, not in a negative way.
• 18:16
  Cheryl: I'm not at all being cynical.
• 18:18
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:18
  Cheryl: But just life, isn't something that you just conquer.
• 18:22
  Ellen: Right.
• 18:22
  Ellen: And I think somehow.
• 18:24
  Ellen: Kind of teach that in America, but there's a formula.
• 18:28
  Ellen: And if that's true, you follow it, then all turn out well, and then you become an adult and well into adulthood, you realize, oh, there is no formula and I've gotta figure this
• 18:38
  Cheryl: out.
• 18:39
  Cheryl: Well, we've Western thinking particularly here in north America, science says there is an answer.
• 18:46
  Cheryl: And if particularly all along, if you plug these things in.
• 18:50
  Cheryl: you can this out.
• 18:51
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:52
  Cheryl: And so that if you plug in and do the right things to your children, you're going to get the fruit that you want them.
• 19:00
  Cheryl: Right.
• 19:00
  Cheryl: Right.
• 19:00
  Cheryl: Just like a test tube.
• 19:01
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 19:02
  Ellen: Because I think we sometimes mistake that.
• 19:05
  Ellen: In the natural world of our children, meaning their growth, their physical growth and things.
• 19:09
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 19:09
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 19:10
  Ellen: There's certain things that are black and white.
• 19:11
  Ellen: Yes.
• 19:12
  Ellen: You have to feed your child to have grow and different things like that, but that doesn't work with the emotional and the moral and the psychological part of your child in terms of there's.
• 19:24
  Ellen: So many variable.
• 19:26
  Cheryl: We are not just a result of our chromosomes and yeah.
• 19:30
  Cheryl: that, which is human is individual.
• 19:34
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 19:35
  Cheryl: And there's the soul and the spirit of a person and who they're becoming is not the cookie cutter.
• 19:43
  Cheryl: Right.
• 19:44
  Cheryl: And I wouldn't want that for my children.
• 19:46
  Cheryl: Just would've made it simpler.
• 19:48
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 19:49
  Ellen: And, and that's where I think as a parent, you kind of get disappointed when you realize, Ooh, this is harder than I thought it was gonna be because it isn't, you know, one
• 19:57
  Cheryl: size fits all it.
• 19:58
  Cheryl: Sure.
• 19:59
  Cheryl: Isn't another thing I would've adjusted thinking, it all depends on my shoulders.
• 20:06
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 20:06
  Cheryl: That my children, my child will succeed in life or fail.
• 20:12
  Cheryl: All of it was up to me What we've talked about here, right?
• 20:15
  Cheryl: And when they are veering off the path or making choices are not being these perfect little whatevers.
• 20:23
  Cheryl: Carrying that burden in me that I was responsible.
• 20:28
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm for who
• 20:29
  Ellen: they were going to.
• 20:30
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 20:30
  Ellen: That you controlled the outcome yeah.
• 20:31
  Ellen: By what you did.
• 20:32
  Ellen: And unfortunately that's where humans vary from other things.
• 20:37
  Ellen: Yes.
• 20:37
  Ellen: You know, if I water my plant and fertilize it, I'm gonna get a certain result.
• 20:41
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 20:41
  Ellen: But that doesn't happen with the human mind and personality?
• 20:45
  Ellen: No.
• 20:45
  Ellen: And it can go the opposite way and you can do all the right thing.
• 20:49
  Ellen: Cuz sometimes we stand in amazement.
• 20:51
  Ellen: We've all known the parents where from the outside it look like they did all the right things.
• 20:56
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 20:56
  Ellen: And they have this very miserable person as their child or as an adult.
• 21:03
  Ellen: And then there's other people you're like, how did that kid survive their home?
• 21:07
  Ellen: And they're an incredible
• 21:08
  Cheryl: human being.
• 21:09
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 21:09
  Cheryl: And we see it historically.
• 21:11
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 21:11
  Cheryl: But instead of a negative thing, if I'd really grasped that it would've given me such freedom.
• 21:18
  Cheryl: To enjoy my children.
• 21:20
  Cheryl: And like, we talk about all the time, mm-hmm, focus on the relationship and not live in fear.
• 21:24
  Ellen: Right.
• 21:25
  Ellen: Because as moms, we live in fear that we're gonna ruin them.
• 21:27
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 21:28
  Cheryl: I will will say, in over 20 years of parenting ministry, That would be the most often phrase that parents have said to me, I just don't wanna ruin my child.
• 21:37
  Cheryl: Right.
• 21:38
  Ellen: And usually the parents that are concerned about ruining their child are not the ones that you need to be concerned with because they're caring enough to look around and going, am I doing the things that are best for my child?
• 21:50
  Cheryl: That's, you know, and.
• 21:51
  Cheryl: I want to bring the comfort and the hope to parents.
• 21:54
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 21:54
  Cheryl: To say it's a relationship.
• 21:56
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 21:56
  Cheryl: And it's a living relationship.
• 21:58
  Cheryl: It's not this formula thing.
• 22:00
  Cheryl: I mean, there are things we have to do and right.
• 22:02
  Cheryl: We need to be responsible about things, but the real essence of the core, and, and there are things we say this all the time, I'm here, but at the core, it's a relationship between me and this person.
• 22:14
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 22:15
  Cheryl: And that that's where the focus needs to be.
• 22:18
  Cheryl: there is a saying Everybody needs someone who's irrationally crazy about'em.
• 22:22
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:22
  Cheryl: And that is the intrinsic additive that someone needs, which is they need someone who just loves them.
• 22:32
  Cheryl: Yes,
• 22:34
  Ellen: yes.
• 22:34
  Ellen: And we all need that.
• 22:35
  Ellen: And we never stop
• 22:36
  Cheryl: needing that.
• 22:36
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm because it meets the deep core need.
• 22:41
  Cheryl: in the mess of everything, right.
• 22:42
  Cheryl: That
• 22:42
  Ellen: you accept me as who I am.
• 22:45
  Ellen: As sometimes as parents, we don't always agree with their behavior.
• 22:48
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 22:48
  Ellen: But we accept our children for who they are.
• 22:51
  Ellen: We love them.
• 22:52
  Ellen: And we understand that they are learning to become adults.
• 22:57
  Cheryl: So I would say if you're gonna do a formula, the formula will be, I love you.
• 23:03
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 23:04
  Cheryl: And there's nothing you could do.
• 23:05
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 23:05
  Cheryl: That's gonna change that.
• 23:07
  Cheryl: And all the conflict.
• 23:09
  Cheryl: Let'em say what they want to parents.
• 23:11
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 23:11
  Cheryl: Keep on doing the very best you can to love them.
• 23:16
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 23:16
  Cheryl: Where they are.
• 23:17
  Cheryl: And, and that includes the boundaries and all the wise things.
• 23:21
  Ellen: And if your children know that you love them, when you do the stupid thing or the thing that you don't understand, but you mean, well, eventually you'll be able to say, Hey, I'm sorry.
• 23:32
  Ellen: I thought that was the right thing.
• 23:34
  Ellen: And they can go, I know you
• 23:35
  Cheryl: loved.
• 23:36
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 23:37
  Cheryl: And I have an example of that in a relationship with one of my children and there was a issue and we had a conversation and I didn't handle it well, and it weighed heavy on my heart.
• 23:51
  Cheryl: And I didn't know exactly what to do and had some really wide council that sent me back to this child.
• 24:01
  Cheryl: and I just apologized.
• 24:03
  Cheryl: Well, yeah.
• 24:04
  Cheryl: Now we didn't reconcile where we agreed.
• 24:07
  Cheryl: Right.
• 24:07
  Cheryl: It was, you know, about the
• 24:08
  Ellen: issues, right.
• 24:09
  Ellen: You might not have come to the same conclusion
• 24:11
  Cheryl: about the issues.
• 24:12
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 24:12
  Cheryl: The issue that were at stake, but it didn't matter.
• 24:16
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 24:16
  Cheryl: I was so thankful.
• 24:18
  Cheryl: That's why I'd say I would go back and I would just say healthy doses of grace and humility.
• 24:25
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 24:25
  Cheryl: In the relationship.
• 24:27
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 24:27
  Cheryl: Because that's what it took.
• 24:29
  Cheryl: I had to get my heart prepared.
• 24:31
  Cheryl: Right.
• 24:31
  Cheryl: And ready.
• 24:32
  Cheryl: And to go saying, I'm sorry.
• 24:35
  Cheryl: Yes, I did not handle that.
• 24:36
  Cheryl: Well, I did not love you.
• 24:38
  Cheryl: Well, in this.
• 24:40
  Cheryl: and I used our, analogy that you use about keeping the relationship bridge right.
• 24:44
  Cheryl: Cleared from my side.
• 24:46
  Cheryl: Without compromis.
• 24:48
  Cheryl: truth, right.
• 24:48
  Cheryl: Or my deeply held values, I would go back and instead of carrying the fear and the burden, right.
• 24:55
  Cheryl: That I'm running my children, I don't know what I'm gonna do or trying to chisel so much.
• 25:00
  Cheryl: Right.
• 25:01
  Cheryl: Just have a lot of humility and grace while being responsible.
• 25:05
  Ellen: Yes.
• 25:05
  Ellen: Because God is the sculptor.
• 25:08
  Ellen: He sure is.
• 25:09
  Ellen: We not that's.
• 25:11
  Ellen: And so we kind of forget that sometimes that he is using things in our children's lives and in our older children's lives to, to make them conform to his, his image and how he created them
• 25:24
  Cheryl: That's right.
• 25:25
  Cheryl: Cause I've really.
• 25:27
  Cheryl: Do want them to be who he created them to be, not create an image of what Cheryll thinks her children should become.
• 25:34
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 25:34
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 25:35
  Cheryl: Cuz kids don't really like that.
• 25:38
  Cheryl: well, besides
• 25:38
  Ellen: it doesn't work, it doesn't work and it tends to really hurt relationship because then they don't feel like they're loved for who they are.
• 25:45
  Ellen: That's right.
• 25:46
  Ellen: But who you want
• 25:46
  Cheryl: them to be?
• 25:47
  Cheryl: So what are some of the other things that if you could go back, you could tweak or you would.
• 25:52
  Cheryl: Um,
• 25:53
  Ellen: Maybe saying I loved you more.
• 25:55
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 25:56
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 25:56
  Ellen: You know, I wish I would've done that a little bit more and, and, uh, yeah, I think my kids knew I loved them, but I don't think I said it enough.
• 26:04
  Ellen: And, and specifically, not just the words I love you, but this is why I love you.
• 26:09
  Ellen: These are the, you know, wow.
• 26:10
  Ellen: The building up of,
• 26:12
  Cheryl: of them.
• 26:13
  Cheryl: and I think to become a student of our children.
• 26:15
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 26:15
  Ellen: And you've said that a lot.
• 26:16
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm, and realize they're coming through their different grid.
• 26:20
  Cheryl: Right.
• 26:20
  Cheryl: And just a real appreciation of the beautiful diversity of the way.
• 26:25
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 26:26
  Cheryl: God made each of my children.
• 26:28
  Cheryl: And we can't be all things to all men.
• 26:30
  Cheryl: That's what I would say, take the burden off that I don't need to be everything right.
• 26:35
  Cheryl: But to grow in the areas that I can and just seek to love this person at this point with the resources God has given.
• 26:43
  Cheryl: Right.
• 26:43
  Cheryl: And when you
• 26:43
  Ellen: figure out how they feel loved, then it's a lot easier cuz you're not trying to
• 26:48
  Cheryl: figure it out.
• 26:49
  Cheryl: and then to keep going back on that bridge and just.
• 26:52
  Cheryl: Pitching the things and going, I'm sorry.
• 26:54
  Cheryl: I'm sorry.
• 26:55
  Cheryl: Let's go back and revisit that.
• 26:57
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 26:57
  Cheryl: I found my children so gracious duke.
• 27:00
  Cheryl: Forgive me.
• 27:00
  Ellen: Right.
• 27:01
  Ellen: I found the same thing.
• 27:02
  Ellen: Not always when they were teenagers in the moment, but maybe a little bit down the
• 27:07
  Cheryl: road.
• 27:08
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 27:09
  Cheryl: I hear you.
• 27:10
  Cheryl: Uh, that's really true.
• 27:12
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 27:12
  Cheryl: I wish TPP had been talking to me all those years, but the idea of margin and then keep going back to what our core values are.
• 27:20
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 27:21
  Cheryl: So that I could make better choices.
• 27:23
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 27:23
  Cheryl: To slow down some reasonable capacity, right?
• 27:27
  Cheryl: Cause you have to have something left over.
• 27:29
  Cheryl: Well, I would say not expect so much.
• 27:31
  Ellen: Yes.
• 27:31
  Ellen: And I not think you don't wanna give your kids or your loved ones leftovers.
• 27:36
  Ellen: Cause sometimes I think that that's what I was doing.
• 27:39
  Ellen: Giving everybody the leftovers that I
• 27:40
  Cheryl: had.
• 27:41
  Cheryl: well, a mistake.
• 27:42
  Cheryl: I will say we made early on thinking about it, bill and I talked about it and we kind of said, wow, if we were in a boat, And the cap sizes, each of us would grab a child and let the other adults swim and, and do the same thing.
• 27:59
  Cheryl: We would capture the children.
• 28:01
  Cheryl: And bill.
• 28:02
  Cheryl: And I didn't make our marriage, not our marriage, but our relationship.
• 28:07
  Cheryl: Right.
• 28:08
  Cheryl: All the time, the priority, I wish we had, we put the kids first, too much.
• 28:14
  Cheryl: and then we realized it and we changed that.
• 28:16
  Cheryl: Yeah, but it was particularly me well, women tend to do it more than me.
• 28:20
  Cheryl: We just deep into your kids And so when they're little Your kids just fill up your time.
• 28:26
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 28:26
  Cheryl: And your heart.
• 28:27
  Cheryl: And then I just think, think, think children, right.
• 28:30
  Cheryl: And I'm really glad because bill said this isn't balanced, right.
• 28:35
  Cheryl: We need to work on us and our marriage.
• 28:38
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 28:38
  Cheryl: Just the priority of relationship.
• 28:40
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 28:41
  Cheryl: I think that's that we were adult to adult rather than.
• 28:45
  Ellen: mom and dad to each other, talking about the kids.
• 28:47
  Ellen: Yes.
• 28:47
  Ellen: You were.
• 28:48
  Ellen: You were the pre-children couple
• 28:51
  Cheryl: and marriage is a commitment.
• 28:52
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 28:53
  Cheryl: And the covenant that lasts,
• 28:54
  Ellen: longer than the kids being it's supposed to living at home.
• 28:57
  Cheryl: That's the way we're supposed to.
• 28:59
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 29:00
  Cheryl: And I would encourage those of you listeners who are married.
• 29:03
  Cheryl: To really work on your marriage.
• 29:05
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 29:06
  Ellen: And I would say, you know, Mike and I have been married 48 years and we're still very happy.
• 29:11
  Ellen: And I think people that know us know that we love each other mm-hmm and are happily married and it took work but I think it was laying the foundation of all those years
• 29:20
  Cheryl: and working on the marriage.
• 29:22
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 29:22
  Cheryl: Not just working on raising the children.
• 29:24
  Cheryl: Correct.
• 29:25
  Ellen: I know that it doesn't happen for everyone, but it is work.
• 29:28
  Cheryl: Yes, it is.
• 29:29
  Cheryl: And so even with just the two of us, our time is gone.
• 29:32
  Cheryl: Is it really?
• 29:33
  Cheryl: Gosh, um, if I could sum it up, I would say, listeners take a deep breath, try to be more balanced.
• 29:41
  Cheryl: Don't operate out of fear or guilt or guilt.
• 29:44
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 29:45
  Cheryl: And work on the relationship, which is what we always say here.
• 29:48
  Cheryl: DB
• 29:48
  Ellen: have fun with your children.
• 29:50
  Ellen: Yes.
• 29:51
  Ellen: Lighten up.
• 29:52
  Ellen: Enjoy
• 29:53
  Cheryl: because we're not operating guilt and fear.
• 29:55
  Cheryl: We're gonna enjoy'em.
• 29:57
  Cheryl: Yes,
• 29:58
  Ellen: it's so good.
• 29:59
  Cheryl: You know, Ellen,
• 30:00
  I just appreciate our friendship so much.
• 30:02
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 30:03
  I do.
• 30:04
  Cheryl: Parents remember hang in there.
• 30:07
  Cheryl: Keep loving.
• 30:09
  Cheryl: keep persevering because it's worth it.